Juno News - True North Election Kick-off Show

00:00:00.000 You

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 Thank you.

00:01:30.000 Yeah, so I'm going to talk to the camera for 30 seconds, so when I do that, I can put

00:01:45.000 it to the one screen.

00:01:47.000 No, it doesn't matter, you can use all three, but it's up to you.

00:01:53.000 in

00:01:54.940 me

00:01:56.940 do

00:02:04.560 well

00:02:08.520 the

00:02:10.680 bad

00:02:13.540 yeah

00:02:15.640 yeah

00:02:18.560 haha

00:02:21.560 And her nose are in front of my eyes. 1.00

00:02:32.560 And her nose are in front of my eyes. 1.00

00:02:41.560 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm and welcome to our live election kickoff event.

00:03:11.540 new show. I'm so excited about it. We're live here in Toronto, the studio, and sorry to keep you

00:03:16.260 folks waiting for a few minutes. This is the first time we're using the studio, and we had

00:03:19.720 a couple of little glitches, but you know what? It's election kickoff day. We were plunged into

00:03:25.180 this election. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau went down to Ottawa today. He went down to Rideau

00:03:29.480 Cottage and announced that we are going to have an election, and so we threw this show together

00:03:34.980 sort of last minute, but we're so pleased that you could be here. We're so pleased that we've

00:03:38.900 been able to take true north to this level where we can now do these kind of live broadcasts and

00:03:43.040 we can offer you the kind of coverage that you deserve that you're not being offered that you're

00:03:47.280 not being given by the legacy media in this country and we're going to break it all down

00:03:51.500 for you on this show we're going to be interviewing great guests we're going to be having we have a

00:03:56.620 reporter in ottawa who's going to be giving us the entire scoop and rundown of what's happened

00:04:00.880 over there today and we're going to unpack it all for you the viewer at home so thank you so much

00:04:05.540 for tuning in and watching. I'd like to introduce you to some of my guests that are here,

00:04:09.760 my friends that are in studio with me. So I'm joined by Sue-Anne Levy. Sue-Anne is a veteran

00:04:14.960 columnist and investigative reporter. She's had an amazing career writing for the Toronto Sun.

00:04:19.980 And we're so honoured, Sue-Anne, that, you know, you retired. Rather than, you know, taking it easy

00:04:24.640 and relaxing and just, you know, having a quiet life, you've decided to continue working in

00:04:29.720 journalism, continue to provide the other side of the story. So it's an honour and pleasure to have

00:04:34.180 you here and thank you and alongside sue ann is our our friend anthony fury anthony is the editor

00:04:39.860 over at the toronto sun and what what is the name of the the podcast that you host anthony uh full

00:04:45.400 comment that's my my post media podcast i gotta say i miss sue ann so much as a sun colleague and

00:04:51.100 but you know i i love contributing to true north so uh it's awesome that uh to see sue in here yeah

00:04:56.780 well thank you so much for both of you for joining me in studio here in toronto and we do have uh

00:05:02.380 Andrew Lawton who's over in Ottawa so we're going to be going to him in a few minutes but before we

00:05:07.480 do I I'm just a little perplexed I don't know why we're having this election I mean we're still in

00:05:13.560 the middle of COVID I don't think COVID is over I don't think the lockdowns are over I wish they

00:05:17.320 were I wish that as a country we were at a place where we could say okay look most people are

00:05:21.580 vaccinated let's carry on with our lives a few cases isn't going to to destroy our country um

00:05:27.540 but but but there is still a fear that we're going to have more lockdowns that that this

00:05:31.640 thing is just not yet over. And I think that Justin Trudeau is making a huge mistake by putting

00:05:37.160 us into this election because it's liberal voters who are still afraid of COVID. And I think that he

00:05:42.180 might not get the majority that he truly deserves. Yeah, it's an interesting point. I mean,

00:05:48.560 I look at it like for the past year and a half, some pretty crazy things have been done to people

00:05:53.580 that, you know, government has made edicts about our lives that most of us have never witnessed

00:05:57.340 before in our life. So I'm like, I kind of, you know, big fan of democracy. So I'm totally good

00:06:02.060 with people having their say. I appreciate that the polling looks for Trudeau like, oh, maybe this

00:06:06.420 is gonna be good for me, which is why he wants it. And then Aaron O'Toole is going, oh, the numbers

00:06:09.600 aren't so great for me. So maybe I'll say, you know, can we push it back a little bit kind of

00:06:12.920 thing. But I think you are right, Candace, totally that the liberal voter mindset is much more like,

00:06:18.100 no, it's not safe to go and line up, you know, outside with masks on for polling station and so

00:06:23.340 forth so they might actually pick up that argument like I think it's safe to

00:06:26.820 you know have people go into a polling station do their voting and so forth and

00:06:30.420 the BLM rallies and the American presidential rally everything was fine

00:06:33.600 you know like it all turned out okay but you're right that that some of his key

00:06:38.340 supporters might be like why they thought we shouldn't gather like this so

00:06:41.580 that's where it may backfire well and sorry if I said that the like the

00:06:45.100 majority that he deserves that he thinks he deserves I don't think yeah I just

00:06:48.300 want to be completely clear I don't think he deserves a majority I don't

00:06:51.300 think that he even deserves another minority. And I think that for him, he risks, like it's all or

00:06:56.380 nothing for him. I think that if Trudeau goes in, like he launched this election, he forces to have

00:07:01.580 it in the midst of what could potentially be a fourth wave. And if he doesn't get his majority

00:07:07.100 and he only gets a minority, that's a loss for him because we're spending, what, $610 million

00:07:12.420 as a report of how much this election is going to cost. What if we get right back to square one

00:07:18.180 where we are back with another minority, I think that Trudeau will basically have to resign at that

00:07:22.660 point, or at least he has no mandate to leave the country, and he's just put us into a ridiculous

00:07:27.560 situation. I think that is the worst case scenario for him. You have to eat crow, I think. And 610

00:07:32.680 million, as far as I'm concerned, is absolutely outrageous. Let's just remember, here in Ontario,

00:07:38.520 for example, businesses are just not fully back. They are just getting back up to speed. They were

00:07:44.180 locked down for some of them for almost 300 days um and they're they're trying to get themselves

00:07:52.340 back on their feet and i know in toronto in downtown toronto every second storefront has

00:07:58.020 a release sign in it and i think it's absolutely outrageous that our federal government spending

00:08:03.380 this kind of money when our poor small business and you know have suffered so tremendously

00:08:10.100 Let's not even talk about the number of people who've died because of COVID, the seniors, but the small businesses, I can't fathom the expenditure when these small businesses and have gotten very little help from the federal government.

00:08:24.780 Well, if anything, they have someone working against them because I've heard so many anecdotal stories from business owners, you know, here in Toronto, but around the country about how hard it is to keep employees, partially because employees are still collecting CERB.

00:08:39.060 And it's like, why would you commute and go to work and have to, like, you know, put your time somewhere else if you can just get paid for free?

00:08:46.920 And I mean, to me, that might be the biggest scandal of the entire COVID.

00:08:50.700 I mean, there's a lot of scandals when it comes to COVID.

00:08:53.440 But just this idea that Trudeau has launched this huge program that just hands out money to everyone.

00:08:59.700 I mean, I can't imagine the kind of fraud that they're going to find if they ever do go through the books.

00:09:03.920 They already have.

00:09:04.340 And there have been no checks and balances on who is actually eligible, who's collecting it.

00:09:09.340 And you're right, the work ethic amongst Canadians, and I've heard it time and time again,

00:09:14.800 people just say, why bother going to work here and in the States?

00:09:18.840 They've done the same thing.

00:09:20.480 They think, why bother going back?

00:09:23.660 And I've seen signs everywhere around Toronto hiring.

00:09:27.660 But they're collecting these benefits, you know, employees.

00:09:30.200 So why should they bother?

00:09:32.180 Yeah, no, it's pretty wild.

00:09:33.660 All right. Well, we've got our colleague Andrew Lawton patiently waiting in Ottawa. I think he's just, you know, jumping at the bit to give his report from what happened today. So let's not make you wait any longer, Andrew. Let's go to Andrew Lawton in Ottawa and hear about what happened today.

00:09:48.460 Hey, thanks very much for having me with you on this great evening. I'm very proud to be a part

00:09:56.200 of this. Let's actually get right to it here and roll a package I sent over your way that has

00:10:02.180 really what are some of the core themes that are emerging from this campaign so far,

00:10:07.920 even just 12 hours into it.

00:10:18.460 Is this audio playing?

00:10:32.100 I can't hear it.

00:10:34.180 It should be playing for them.

00:10:37.680 It's not?

00:10:48.460 Should we try again or?

00:10:54.560 ...than would normally be expected in a general election campaign.

00:10:58.540 Aaron O'Toole and the Conservatives in particular have said they will be relying significantly on a studio they had purpose-built at a downtown Ottawa hotel.

00:11:08.680 The fact that the election is taking place in the midst of what Canada's chief public health officer,

00:11:14.060 Theresa Tam, has called a fourth wave was very much front and centre

00:11:18.840 as Justin Trudeau took questions from the media and as Erin O'Toole spoke.

00:11:23.760 Justin Trudeau, who previously said that he would not have an election until the pandemic was over,

00:11:29.620 was asked repeatedly by reporters what he wants to gain from this election and why now.

00:11:35.340 Here was one such question from Toronto Star reporter Tonda McCharles.

00:11:39.360 You didn't use the word majority, but I know you would like a majority to enact that plan.

00:11:43.680 However, the NDP says you have the confidence of Parliament.

00:11:46.800 They'd support you in any of these measures that you talk about and all of these ambitions.

00:11:51.840 So how can you justify to Canadians the need for an election that'll cost $500 million in the middle of a fourth wave

00:11:59.440 when you said to Canadians you would not go to the polls before the end of the pandemic?

00:12:05.340 this is a really important moment in canada's history for the past two years for the past 17

00:12:12.780 months specifically of the pandemic we've been making really big really consequential decisions

00:12:20.460 and in the last election nobody was talking about what we might do in a pandemic

00:12:26.300 so the government and indeed parliament needs an opportunity to get a mandate from canadians

00:12:32.860 to hear from Canadians on how to end this pandemic,

00:12:38.480 how to build back better in really meaningful ways.

00:12:43.780 As Canadians know, this is a moment where we're going to be taking decisions

00:12:48.300 that will last not just for the coming months, but for the coming decades.

00:12:53.820 And Canadians deserve their say.

00:12:56.400 That's exactly what we're going to give them.

00:12:59.660 Justin Trudeau didn't really talk about any of the safety issues.

00:13:03.580 He didn't explain why an election in a pandemic is a good idea specifically.

00:13:08.160 He just said that Canadians deserve a choice.

00:13:10.940 That was the message he kept coming back to, that Canadians deserve a choice, the stakes are high,

00:13:15.320 and how dare any of the opposition parties who don't want an election right now

00:13:19.420 try to take away the right of Canadians to choose who represents them

00:13:23.400 and who makes decisions that have long-lasting implications.

00:13:27.880 Aaron O'Toole and Jagmeet Singh, the Conservative and NDP leaders,

00:13:32.000 have very much been on team no election.

00:13:35.240 And this was something that Aaron O'Toole reminded people of in his opening remarks this morning.

00:13:40.300 We're finally at a point, thanks to the efforts of all Canadians who've stayed at home, 1.00

00:13:44.760 got tested, got vaccinated, where we can see our loved ones, our friends and our families again.

00:13:52.520 We shouldn't be risking that for political games.

00:13:57.080 or political gain. A leader who cared about the best interests of Canadians would be straining

00:14:04.420 every sinew to secure the recovery right now. Instead, Justin Trudeau has called an election.

00:14:13.380 That's Justin Trudeau's choice. And I hope that his decision doesn't cost Canadians too dearly.

00:14:21.820 But let's be clear, this election is not about the next week, the next month, or even the next year.

00:14:29.900 It's about the next four years.

00:14:32.620 It's about who will deliver the economic recovery Canada needs.

00:14:37.100 O'Toole's message was very much that the Conservatives don't think there should be an election right now,

00:14:41.840 but if there's going to be, they're going to run.

00:14:44.040 And almost the entirety of his speech was about the economy,

00:14:47.540 the Conservative campaign message of securing the future,

00:14:51.680 the economy as it pertains to COVID recovery in particular.

00:14:56.020 Not just the top issue, but it seemed like the only issue

00:14:59.440 that the Conservatives were really incorporating throughout Aaron O'Toole's speech.

00:15:04.220 While most of the media's questions towards Justin Trudeau were about

00:15:07.740 why an election, what do you hope to gain,

00:15:10.080 Aaron O'Toole's questions were overwhelmingly about vaccinations,

00:15:13.640 specifically why the Conservative Party is not forcing its candidates and campaign staff to be vaccinated.

00:15:19.920 Aaron O'Toole has previously said that these decisions are for individual people to make

00:15:25.120 and not for him as a party leader to mandate.

00:15:27.820 But that didn't stop the same question being asked several times over

00:15:31.320 by reporters in attendance at Aaron O'Toole's press conference.

00:15:35.240 But whatever the messages are, it's clear that after a summer of speculation,

00:15:39.780 election 44 is now in swing.

00:15:42.980 From Ottawa, I'm Andrew Lawton.

00:15:47.980 Well, thank you so much for that report, Andrew.

00:15:50.220 It was very thorough and comprehensive.

00:15:52.140 It's so interesting how the media focused in on this vaccination issue for Aaron O'Toole.

00:15:57.700 I didn't see very many policy questions towards Trudeau,

00:16:00.920 but we know that the media, they're kind of pack animals,

00:16:04.060 so they're going to ask the same kind of questions.

00:16:06.420 Can you give us any more insight?

00:16:07.540 What was the mood like today?

00:16:08.840 How were the leaders?

00:16:10.080 Were they seeming relaxed, seeming nervous?

00:16:12.000 what was it like? It was odd because I really felt like today was a meta day in the sense that

00:16:19.000 it was about all of these process elements and not really about the things that Canadians vote on.

00:16:23.800 For Trudeau, it was about the timing of the election. For Aaron O'Toole, it was about the

00:16:28.460 staffing situation he has insofar as vaccinations are concerned. Not really what I would suggest

00:16:35.000 anyway are ballot issues. And for a lot of the reporters, the one thing I found just to go along

00:16:41.020 with the process side of this is that there's a lot of confusion about what the campaign

00:16:45.440 is actually going to look like. Remember, Justin Trudeau did very well, and I remember this in 2019

00:16:50.900 on the campaign trail with big crowds and rallies. By getting into those groups and capitalizing off

00:16:57.400 of some of the energy, this is not something that is really going to exist in most parts of the

00:17:02.900 country given public health restrictions that you noted earlier are still in effect. Aaron O'Toole

00:17:08.200 has never really had that. I mean, he became the leader in the middle of the pandemic, is

00:17:12.200 still the leader, and they're planning a campaign that is very much confined to that Ottawa studio

00:17:18.540 that I was in this morning, which I think is interesting here, because we know that if you're

00:17:23.340 in that studio, the TV networks are going to carry you, but also not many undecided voters, I think,

00:17:32.140 are watching those newscasts. So you've got to wonder how they're going to break through that

00:17:35.660 if they're not going to be on the ground in cities across Canada as they would be in a normal

00:17:39.700 campaign. It'll certainly be a different kind of an election than what we're used to. But

00:17:44.400 from what I saw, Aaron Motul looked really comfortable. He looked very confident. I felt

00:17:48.280 like he's really hitting his stride. Whereas, you know, from what I saw from Trudeau, he looked

00:17:52.200 irritable and sort of angry. I'm really surprised by that because, you know, it's Trudeau's call.

00:17:57.380 And surely the election is happening right now because they planned it this way. They've been

00:18:01.880 spending boatloads of money trying to appeal to every different demographic. They want

00:18:06.320 the majority before, you know, the books get opened and we find out too much. And so I found

00:18:11.300 that a little strange, like perhaps maybe, you know, Trudeau wasn't expecting those kinds of

00:18:18.200 tough questions about why we're having a campaign in the first place. Tell us a little bit more

00:18:25.980 about, you know, how Trudeau is doing today? Well, I think you raise an important point there,

00:18:32.620 which I just have to, I think, stress this for viewers, is that Justin Trudeau has known

00:18:37.820 for as long as he's had the idea to have a summer election, when the election was going to be. He's

00:18:43.140 had the benefit of being able to plan and prepare, whereas the opposition could only speculate and

00:18:48.360 guess. So for Justin Trudeau, even going back to the budget, I'd say there was probably a pretty

00:18:54.540 clearly laid out plan of going to the polls at some point in the summer or fall and then working

00:19:00.940 back with what they're going to announce and when they're going to do it. For example, starting

00:19:04.860 tomorrow, seniors in Canada are going to be getting a $500 check from the Liberals. I don't think

00:19:10.200 that's an accident that the week of the campaign, there's literally going to be this massive exercise

00:19:15.740 in vote buying. But here's the interesting thing is that you can only plan so well. Trudeau launched

00:19:22.580 his campaign on the day there's a major crisis in Afghanistan that involves a lot of Canadian

00:19:28.460 negligence as far as repatriating some of these people from Afghanistan that have helped Canada's

00:19:34.200 mission over there. There also is, even from within the government, from the advisor that

00:19:38.520 Justin Trudeau has outsourced most of his public health decision-making to, Theresa Tam, this

00:19:43.740 declaration that Canada's in the fourth wave. And I think when all of these plans were made to go to

00:19:48.780 the polls around this time, he probably thought that things were going to be a lot more hunky-dory

00:19:55.360 than they are, but they had already committed to this path. And I think it ended up being a pretty

00:20:00.300 bad day to start a campaign, just given all of the things that were working against the government.

00:20:05.240 Well, they're just so cynical, right, Andrew? I mean, it's like, you could predict that there'd

00:20:09.140 be another wave, right? We've been through this. We've seen it before. We know what's going on with

00:20:13.200 now it's the Delta variant. I think that Trudeau is at least hoping that the next wave wouldn't

00:20:18.260 happen till the fall. You know, when the weather gets colder, that's when it might happen. But

00:20:21.680 the fact that it happened in the summer is interesting. And I want to change gears a little

00:20:26.000 bit here just to talk about some of your colleagues in the media, because I noticed that when you were

00:20:30.780 asking your question, you were at the Aaron O'Toole press conference there. And when you were asking

00:20:34.800 your question, you got a bit of a snarky comment from Andrew Coyne, who's a senior columnist over

00:20:39.620 at the Globe and Mail. So he didn't like the fact that you got the first question. And I just want

00:20:44.000 point out that your question was great it was about china um and and and then correct me if 0.93

00:20:48.960 i'm wrong but the the first question that global or no yeah global news asked was about some dumb

00:20:54.880 meme video so so you know andrew lawton with true north is asking the hard-hitting questions about

00:21:00.640 china and about the things that canadians deserve to know about the legacy media is complaining

00:21:04.480 that true north is there and then they turn around and ask a dumb question uh what criticizing the

00:21:09.440 leader about about an ad that his party put out uh tell us a little bit about the interactions

00:21:14.240 that you might have had with some of your colleagues there in ottawa yeah i mean there

00:21:18.320 weren't many of them which i think is an important part of the story here we know that the mainstream

00:21:22.320 media is generally speaking bleeding significantly in resources so the amount of people that are

00:21:27.840 covering campaigns that are on the road is fewer and fewer even fewer i'd say than in 2019 based

00:21:34.080 just on a look at the group that was there today. And interestingly enough, people on Twitter have

00:21:39.640 been making, thanks to Andrew Coyne and some other of the Blue Check Brigade that pointed this out, 0.96

00:21:44.680 they've been trying to claim some sort of conspiracy of sorts. The reality is the first

00:21:49.280 person to walk up to the microphone asked the first question. And I just happened to be there

00:21:53.540 early. I had a seat close to the microphone. And when they came time for the Q&A, I got up

00:21:58.300 and I stood there. And that was that. But the interesting thing is, is that you do have these

00:22:03.280 people in media and we saw this in 2019 and I think we're going to see more of it this year

00:22:07.280 that really want to protect themselves as being the only conduit that can exist for information

00:22:14.080 from politicians to voters through elections but the reality is the audiences aren't simply there

00:22:19.660 so you know Andrew Coyne who I've always had a good rapport with and some of the other blue 1.00

00:22:24.820 checks that were jumping up and down saying oh you know how dare True North get a question in

00:22:28.520 they're not the ones that people are paying attention to this election.

00:22:32.440 Well, I don't want to toot our horn too much, but I think it is a good sign that, you know, we're continuing.

00:22:37.880 I mean, the reason you got to ask the first question is because you worked harder.

00:22:40.240 You worked harder than your colleagues.

00:22:41.920 You were there before them.

00:22:43.020 So, Sue, and I saw you chuckling.

00:22:44.360 I didn't know if you wanted to jump in on this one.

00:22:46.320 No, it's entirely predictable, though, that the media, and I encountered this a lot during my time at the Toronto Sun.

00:22:53.860 if you asked a hard question, the legacy media would come down on you and try to

00:23:00.000 actually mock you. And good for Andrew for getting out there in front. I think it's very

00:23:08.540 sort of Trump-esque what we're seeing or what we're going to see, because the same thing

00:23:14.760 happened in the States with Trump. I mean, you know, he would get asked all these hard questions

00:23:20.340 and then Biden would be lob these softballs, and even to this day.

00:23:24.760 So, you know, I'm eagerly awaiting the same thing happening up here.

00:23:29.140 Well, it's interesting, because I would say that that definitely happened in the last election.

00:23:32.520 But from what I saw today, I feel like the media were starting to push back on Trudeau.

00:23:36.920 It's only the first day.

00:23:38.280 Yeah, that's true.

00:23:39.040 I found, though, the answer to that question that Andrew played, that Tonda asked about, you know, what's going on, why do we have this election?

00:23:45.040 And Trudeau, I found him kind of, like, honest, and to unpack what he was saying,

00:23:49.260 I feel like he was saying, all right, I want this great reset thing.

00:23:53.080 So let's get a mandate on that.

00:23:54.540 And I was like, oh, let's talk that out.

00:23:56.500 Like that to me was kind of the subtext of what he's saying.

00:23:58.860 I want to do the build back better thing.

00:24:00.180 I want to do the great reset thing.

00:24:01.480 So, you know, he's not going to use those exact words.

00:24:04.700 He's referred to reset before.

00:24:06.420 He hasn't put the grade in, even though the Bank of Canada document that I was writing about does use those words.

00:24:11.440 But whatever you want to call it, he's saying, you know, I want to talk about where we go,

00:24:14.660 making canada more socialist or whatever country and you know more green agenda and all that stuff

00:24:19.240 that he talks about all the time ad nauseum he's saying let's let's talk it out here canada and i

00:24:23.360 think i i hope everybody's honest if the media the pundits are all honest that this is the direction

00:24:28.180 trudeau's i guess very open about it he's saying this is the direction i want to take the country

00:24:31.640 in so let's have that referendum because i think that's an important thing i think trudeau might

00:24:36.340 be surprised that out of the sort of twitterati and so forth that people don't actually want to

00:24:40.420 head in that direction but you know they they have the right where are we taking this country now

00:24:44.260 because we are at a crossroads so let's figure it out and and let's have an open dialogue yeah i

00:24:48.580 have heard that argument before but i to me it's like we we already have that direction we've he's

00:24:52.800 already got the mandate that he has which is for a minority government propped up by an ndp right

00:24:56.680 so that's already like his socialist agenda i find it a little redundant that we're that we're here

00:25:01.360 but you know i i i get your point and i think that in some ways it is valid because it's like

00:25:07.020 well we're paying all this money and and that that is something that has changed i don't think

00:25:11.920 People know that, though.

00:25:12.840 Like, I think people think that the Liberal Party is like a centrist party, and then you've got the left-wing NDP party, but there's really no difference.

00:25:18.760 Like, I really feel for Jagmeet Singh, because, like, what's the difference between the Liberal and NDP party?

00:25:22.360 Like, why vote for the NDP?

00:25:23.480 There's no real value-added reason.

00:25:25.040 You've got two left-wing parties, and then the Conservatives are like the centrist and center-right party kind of thing.

00:25:29.800 And if you really kind of hash it out more, people are like, oh, yeah, you know, Justin Trudeau, pretty left-wing guy.

00:25:34.540 Well, I know.

00:25:34.980 So I completely agree.

00:25:35.780 I think that Jagmeet is totally lost because, you know, you had Trudeau running up to the left of Thomas Mulcair back in 2015, sort of famously saying that he was not going to balance the budget where Mulcair was.

00:25:47.360 And that was sort of like, OK, this is interesting because we have the Liberal Party outflanking the new Democrats on socialism or at least on big government spending.

00:25:54.700 And then Jagmeet Singh came along and he was supposed to be this like new kind of youthful energy for the party.

00:26:00.160 He was going to bring all of these, like, new changes and sort of bring the party back to, I guess, more of its socialist roots.

00:26:07.240 But I just feel like under Jagmeet, the party is not gaining momentum.

00:26:11.380 I find him very uninspiring.

00:26:13.500 And I'll address, you know, we had a report over the weekend about Jagmeet saying he announced that him and his wife were having a baby.

00:26:20.080 God bless them.

00:26:20.680 That's great news, beautiful news.

00:26:22.580 But the dress that his wife was wearing was a very expensive designer.

00:26:27.100 It was a Zimmerman dress.

00:26:27.800 His dress cost thousands of dollars, right?

00:26:29.200 And it's like, you know, I don't care. Right. It's their money. They can spend whatever they want. But just from an image perspective, you know, this is a socialist party.

00:26:36.600 And literally the day that they announced that they put that picture up, they announced their platform, which was not costed.

00:26:43.220 And it included a luxury tax, a tax on luxury goods. So here are these two people who are clearly like, you know, part of the new rich elite or whatever.

00:26:51.680 They're driving BMWs. He's like a French socialist. That's how they are in France. They're all like very wealthy.

00:26:56.220 You know, the Francois Hollande people, they're like super wealthy.

00:26:58.860 So he's kind of like, no, Jagmeet's wardrobe, you know, he's a well-dressed guy.

00:27:01.800 I mean, that stuff isn't cheap.

00:27:02.860 Yeah, no, absolutely.

00:27:03.820 And it's like, to me, it's just hypocritical because it's like, are you going to tax yourself?

00:27:08.060 I don't know.

00:27:08.680 And to me, it's like it sends the wrong message, right?

00:27:10.940 He did this profile with Toronto Life in 2018 when he was the new leader.

00:27:14.720 And it was all about how he wore these tailored bespoke suits.

00:27:17.880 Right, right.

00:27:18.420 And he goes all the way to Delhi for his tailor.

00:27:20.900 And he has a collection of Rolex watches.

00:27:23.460 Like, you know, this is supposed to be the party of the everyman. This is supposed to be the working class party with the unions. And here you have this very slick looking, you know, cosmopolitan guy. And it's great. I think that he could be a great role model for his community, you know, or for all for the entire Canadian country.

00:27:40.640 Like, he's got a good following on social media, he's got a beautiful wife, you know, he's got a lot going for him.

00:27:46.580 And instead, you know, what do we hear from him?

00:27:48.300 We hear that Canada's a racist country and Canada's, you know, terrible, the rich get richer, we need to crack down on the ultra-rich.

00:27:55.540 I'm just getting mixed messages from the guy.

00:27:57.560 He's not the union guy, though.

00:27:58.640 He's like the new school kind of like millennial hipster champagne socialist kind of thing.

00:28:02.540 And there's a contingent of that.

00:28:03.840 It's a sizable one.

00:28:04.820 But he's not the kind of like traditional CAW, you know, roll up your sleeves, hit the campaign hustings for the NDP kind of thing, like back in the 90s.

00:28:13.320 It's really interesting to see.

00:28:15.160 Yeah, I mean, that faction, I don't know where it's going.

00:28:16.860 Like Doug Ford worked really hard to win over some of those unions back in the 2018 election kind of thing.

00:28:21.360 And Donald Trump fought to get those unions on side himself in 2016.

00:28:25.000 So things are kind of like they're splitting the NDP world.

00:28:28.120 Well, I know that Aaron O'Toole has sort of made it his point that he wants to target these people as well.

00:28:34.500 Like I know, actually, one of the things I liked about what Aaron O'Toole was saying was when he got like early Trump comparisons, you know, Andrew Scheer was really squeamish about those.

00:28:43.280 He didn't want anyone comparing him to Trump, whereas O'Toole didn't really flinch away from those.

00:28:47.320 I mean, obviously, Trump is a very flawed person and there's a world of difference between Aaron O'Toole and Donald Trump.

00:28:53.520 But, you know, when asked, he was like, no, you know, I like the Trump coalition.

00:28:57.200 I like how he went after, you know, these sort of like steel or rust belts kind of voters.

00:29:01.600 And I think that's what you're talking about, that the NDP has abandoned those.

00:29:05.600 But I'm not sure if they're coming in the Conservative side.

00:29:07.560 The NDP and the Liberals, they're kind of becoming the party of no in terms of they're telling you everyone they don't want to associate.

00:29:12.580 Whereas, yeah, Varun O'Toole becomes like the party of yes of like, OK, well, you know, we may not totally get along or, you know, we're different culture, different religion or I'm not in your union or whatever.

00:29:20.540 But like we agree on this, that and the other. And these are the important things today.

00:29:24.020 Well, let's hang out. Let's grab a beer. Please vote for me. And let's form that coalition.

00:29:27.460 So I think there are interesting coalitions that are happening, and the momentum can be in the Conservatives' favour, I think, to really, you know, to broaden it.

00:29:35.100 We used to talk about the big blue tent a lot, and I think there can be an even bigger blue tent.

00:29:40.080 Absolutely. All right, we have a guest who's going to be joining us. I'm really excited about this one.

00:29:44.360 So let's go to Danielle Smith. 1.00

00:29:46.320 Danielle Smith is the president of the Alberta Enterprise Group Business Advocacy Organization.

00:29:50.900 She was formerly the leader of the then Wild Rose Party of Alberta, leader of Alberta's official opposition.

00:29:55.300 Before both and after her political career, Danielle was an Alberta journalist, most recently at the host of the talk show, Danielle Smith, on 770 CHQR.

00:30:06.800 Danielle, thank you so much for joining us. It's great to see you.

00:30:08.860 Hi, Candice. Nice to see you.

00:30:13.040 So what do you think? We're going into an election. What are you hearing out in Alberta right now?

00:30:18.380 Well, I'm kind of alarmed at the Friday press conferences and getting more coverage.

00:30:22.800 I think what happened is everybody expected that they'd bring in a vaccine mandatory passport for those who were public servants, so people who worked in Ottawa, parliamentarians.

00:30:34.540 I think we got blindsided by this vaccine passport that now is going to apply to airlines as well as cross-border travel by train and cruise ships.

00:30:44.600 But they were pretty clear that it's going to apply to all federally regulated industries, which means if you look at what is federally regulated, oil and gas pipelines are federally regulated, grain elevators are federally regulated, the trucking industry is federally regulated, all of the broadcast media is federally regulated, all of the banks are federally regulated.

00:31:06.120 And I'm just not, I'm a bit surprised that nobody seems to be making a big fuss about that, that we've essentially, on the day, two days before the election, have the government announcing that we're going to be bringing in a national mandatory vaccine passport with no end of sight in sight.

00:31:24.180 So that is one thing that I find pretty alarming.

00:31:26.360 I saw earlier in the week that the chambers of commerce had lined up to support this.

00:31:30.740 I just want you to know, as an advocate for business with my own group over at Enterprise Group, not a single one.

00:31:36.120 of our members had called up asking for vaccine passports.

00:31:39.620 I'm not even quite sure where the business community

00:31:41.420 or members of the business community

00:31:42.660 are coming from on that.

00:31:44.000 But I find that pretty alarming

00:31:45.840 that you'd see such a major change in policy,

00:31:49.040 a major bomb dropped on us in just a couple of days

00:31:52.540 before the election when so much is going on.

00:31:54.040 I don't know if people have had a chance to really process it.

00:31:57.100 Am I in the wrong direction on this?

00:31:59.620 No, I just don't seem to see the kind of outrage

00:32:01.620 I would have expected over this.

00:32:03.580 There was some pushback.

00:32:05.180 I saw a huge protest in Montreal over the announcement that they had about bringing in vaccine passports,

00:32:11.040 not allowing non-vaccinated people into public squares and into, you know, just the public in general.

00:32:17.020 And I think maybe Canadians aren't paying attention, Danielle.

00:32:19.800 I mean, it's in the middle of summer.

00:32:22.920 Most people are probably up at the cottage or just, you know, not watching their television, not engaged on Twitter.

00:32:28.600 And so I think maybe it's a bit of that.

00:32:31.400 But I agree.

00:32:32.000 I think it's a really scary direction that the country is going in that, you know, just people, for whatever reason, people have their own reasons not to get vaccinated.

00:32:42.260 I'm vaccinated, and I think that everyone should go ahead and get that.

00:32:44.920 It makes life a bit easier when we can get on to normal.

00:32:47.540 But the idea that the Trudeau government is implementing this sweeping vaccine passport, I think it's a pretty risky issue to bet an entire election on.

00:32:56.940 And obviously it's designed, right?

00:32:58.360 It's like a wedge issue.

00:32:59.160 And I saw a couple of liberal strategists writing about it in the newspapers in the days before the announcement saying, you know, it's a great issue.

00:33:06.060 It's an 80-20 issue, which is, you know, when 80 percent of the population are for it, go for it.

00:33:10.380 But it's like, well, but what about that 20 percent?

00:33:12.200 Like this is going to be a pure like tyranny of the majority situation where, you know, you have like 80 percent of the country forcing 20 percent of the country to either stay inside and not be able to participate in life or to get a vaccine.

00:33:25.100 And they might have a, you know, a moral issue or a medical issue or whatever the reason is for not getting vaccinated.

00:33:30.940 I mean, aren't we a country of, you know, the charter?

00:33:34.200 I think I think you're right.

00:33:35.520 I think it should be a big, big issue.

00:33:37.520 One of the things that I always observe is that no one ever really thinks about who does the enforcement on these things. Now, keep in mind, I run a restaurant. We've had 4,000 customers since we announced Freedom Day in Alberta on July the 1st. And so they're asking me as a business owner to ask my 20-year-old servers to be mandating that everybody flash their vaccine passport when they come in the door.

00:34:03.300 if this applies to the trucking industry, are we seriously going to be asking for every single

00:34:08.820 truck that crosses a border traveling from ports in British Columbia all the way across the country

00:34:14.020 to be stopped at the border to be checked to make sure that all of the drivers have been vaccinated?

00:34:19.780 I mean, this is the thing that I don't think people understand is that when you start putting

00:34:24.500 in mandates, what follows is enforcement. And in France, what they're looking at is charging

00:34:31.940 business owners 45 000 euros if they allow somebody in their business without a vaccine

00:34:38.260 passport they're talking about the potential for jail time if uh if you go into a business with

00:34:44.480 without having your vaccine passport and so this is where i think the disconnect comes in is there's

00:34:49.380 one thing uh to to support a high level of vaccination for the good of society yes but once

00:34:55.380 you start putting in mandates and enforcement comes in you're either asking business owners

00:34:59.760 to do something that they are not prepared to do they are not by law enforcement officers they are

00:35:03.920 not officers um that that get a mandate from their provincial or federal governments or you're asking

00:35:10.160 for an excessive and aggressive use of force by your your police services and we saw all kinds

00:35:16.320 of excessive use of force throughout the course of the of the pandemic so i i just i'm kind of

00:35:22.160 astonished that this has been snuck in because our premier in alberta has been pretty clear that we

00:35:26.880 don't want vaccine passports here but the way they can do this through federally regulated industries 0.91

00:35:32.160 they can make it they can make it very widespread they've they also admitted that uh because

00:35:36.960 provincially regulated industries wouldn't come i wouldn't have to comply to this that they're

00:35:41.040 working through health canada to put pressure on universities and others to try to bring through

00:35:47.120 these kinds of mandates at the at the provincial level as well where they don't have jurisdiction

00:35:52.000 So I'm wondering if this is going to be an election issue because we also know that we've

00:35:57.840 got third party advertising rules. So anytime you talk about an issue that a particular political

00:36:03.200 party has taken a position on, you've got to register under the third party election

00:36:08.000 advertising rules. Otherwise, you end up falling afoul of those Elections Canada laws. And they

00:36:12.720 also have huge fines associated with it, $50,000 if you fail to register. So to me, it almost looks

00:36:19.280 like they made this decision in the 11th hour took everyone by surprise so that there couldn't

00:36:24.940 be any kind of organized campaign against it because now we're in a red period and i find

00:36:29.540 that sneaky and i find i find it unconscionable that they would do something like that when it

00:36:33.860 has such huge implications on freedom and huge implications on business freedom

00:36:37.340 points and i i just don't think that people have thought that through danielle because

00:36:42.700 you're right it's it's one thing to say look everyone should just go get your vaccine and

00:36:46.740 then we can all just go on and carry on with our lives. But it's another to, like, imagine a society

00:36:51.520 where you have police officers roaming around demanding that people show them their papers. I

00:36:55.960 mean, you know, is that really the kind of post-COVID world that we're going to live in,

00:37:00.820 where we have enforcement officers making sure that, you know, teenage servers at restaurants 0.99

00:37:05.720 have actually been fully vaccinated? And I mean, it'll be interesting because I think, you know,

00:37:12.520 when it comes to places like Alberta and Ontario, both the premiers have said that they're not going

00:37:16.600 to implement their own kind of um that their own their own kind of i mean what you're doing is

00:37:21.320 dividing society in half into haves and have nots and saying that some people just aren't welcome

00:37:25.640 um whether they're going to you know enforce it and and and and eventually like comply with it i

00:37:31.080 i think i think it's really interesting uh anthony so do you guys want to jump into the conversation

00:37:34.760 here well i i think danielle just is making a great point that people haven't thought through

00:37:39.480 the implications of it like how long is this going to happen for for how many years is that

00:37:43.400 that teenage server going to have to badger people, you know, for their documents. And the 1.00

00:37:48.460 other point, we're talking about booster shots now. I think a lot of people, they like the vaccine

00:37:52.240 passport because they think it just validates the choice they have already made because most

00:37:56.140 people are vaccinated. But what if come November, they're like, oh, no, your vaccine passport's

00:38:00.240 invalid until you get your third dose. And I don't know. Nobody's commented on that. Is that

00:38:03.720 going to be? Apparently, Israel is, Israel's brought in a third dose for over 40s now. And 0.66

00:38:08.220 I was just speaking to somebody I know there who's involved in politics. And they said, yeah,

00:38:10.960 they may add it to their their green pass system so like let's just talk about these details a bit

00:38:15.340 more folks before we jump in so eagerly absolutely it's just like the uh the hotel quarantine which

00:38:22.160 was not thought through thoroughly so it's another uh issue i mean we know how botched up that was

00:38:29.400 and people find so and i'm really concerned um like your guest says that people the uh i guess

00:38:37.440 whomever is going to oversee this is going to run around abuse their power give huge fines like they

00:38:45.660 did with the quarantine the hotel quarantine i mean people fighting seven thousand eight thousand

00:38:50.980 nine thousand dollar fines at this point it's wild uh well daniel well i just want to ask you

00:38:55.980 one more question before we let go uh you're out you're at west and you have your finger on the

00:39:00.120 pulse of the sort of mood and the vibe out there do you think the western alienation is going to

00:39:05.420 play a role in this campaign? I mean, I know that in the last, you know, two years or the last

00:39:09.900 five years under Trudeau, we've seen it flare up worse than ever, perhaps, or at least in the last

00:39:15.340 20 years. And I haven't really heard much about the sort of Western separatist movement recently,

00:39:20.680 but I was just wondering if you could give us a little bit of an update on what the mood is like

00:39:25.800 in terms of this issue. Well, let me add one more issue to the list, because again, in the dead of

00:39:30.960 summer on July 20th, the natural resources minister, Seamus O'Reagan, launched a just

00:39:36.000 transition, a consultation. Just transition is the language that the extreme left, like Naomi

00:39:41.440 Klein and others use, to talk about phasing out fossil fuels altogether and retraining energy

00:39:46.840 workers to, I don't know, install solar panels or do sustainable farming or something. Imagine

00:39:51.240 if the head of Unifor, Jerry Diaz, was told that the government was going to phase out all

00:39:57.680 autoworkers jobs. People would be lighting their hair on fire all the way through Ontario and

00:40:02.260 abroad. And yet we're, I guess, just supposed to nod and smile and accept this in Alberta.

00:40:07.880 So I can tell you that the combination of the opposition that the federal government has taken

00:40:14.320 to our premier on so many issues, combined with essentially campaigning to phase out our energy

00:40:20.660 sector, combined with giving $6 billion to Quebec for their daycare plan and not allowing

00:40:27.900 Alberta to have a similar deal. We have an equalization referendum that's going to be

00:40:32.280 happening a month after the federal election. And if the prime minister chooses to campaign

00:40:38.340 on divide and conquer, I suspect that's going to have a very strong mandate. But beyond that,

00:40:45.580 If you look at what's happening in the election, there is a party that is headed up by Jay Hill, a familiar name out east, because he used to also be the whip for the conservative parties underneath Stephen Harper.

00:40:58.800 He's headed up the Maverick Party, and it is a separatist party.

00:41:01.940 He's running, I think he said, 26 MPs.

00:41:05.520 They've carefully selected the ridings where they think that they can run a Maverick without causing a vote split that will elect a liberal.

00:41:13.280 So ridings with people like Michelle Rempel and Shannon Stubbs and John Barlow, I don't know if they're going to be successful.

00:41:21.220 I don't know if they'll be able to have that kind of breakthrough.

00:41:23.700 But the kind of issues that the prime minister has chosen to campaign on are not unifying issues.

00:41:30.140 We have a $600 billion COVID debt.

00:41:33.280 It's going to require all hands on deck in all industries working flat out to try to address that and turn the corner.

00:41:39.940 And you don't get there by getting the rest of the country to dogpile on Alberta.

00:41:45.420 And I think the way this campaign is shaping up, he's going to do that.

00:41:48.100 And we're going to end up with some serious long-term unity problems as a result.

00:41:51.580 Well, it's such a...

00:41:53.200 You know, it's like $60 million, $600 million, $600 billion is what this guy spent on the pandemic.

00:41:59.380 It's staggering.

00:42:00.460 And, you know, for Alberta's sake, I hope that he doesn't campaign in this divisive way.

00:42:04.980 But, you know, we've seen it so many times before.

00:42:07.160 Daniel Smith, thank you so much for joining us.

00:42:08.640 You provide so much information, so much context.

00:42:10.640 We really appreciate you coming on our show.

00:42:12.580 My pleasure.

00:42:13.040 Talk to you again.

00:42:16.500 Pretty wild when you think about the fact that, you know, we're talking about an election

00:42:21.120 that might cost $600 billion and, you know, $600 billion for a pandemic.

00:42:26.600 I mean, you can't really imagine what it's going to look like, and hence why Trudeau

00:42:32.000 has said that he's not going to be able to balance the budget until 2070.

00:42:36.880 Well, my producers, they keep waving at me because I'm supposed to be making fundraising pitches.

00:42:43.680 So, you know, we're focused so much on the Trudeau government and their waste of money.

00:42:49.860 I was surprised that I was waiting for Danielle to raise the $600 million media bailout,

00:42:54.900 but she didn't mention that.

00:42:56.040 There's too many other spending things to mention.

00:42:58.620 But, you know, we don't get any money from the government.

00:43:00.380 We're not part of that media bailout.

00:43:02.440 And, you know, it's not just the $600 million.

00:43:04.000 We learned that there is a local journalism initiative that $50 million was given to journalists.

00:43:09.220 We just learned last week that there was another program where journalists got $60 million during the campaign in emergency relief.

00:43:16.960 So there's no end in the amount of money that the Trudeau government is sending to the mainstream media.

00:43:20.560 And that's aside from the $1.2 billion that they give to the CBC.

00:43:23.580 So I just think it's so important that Canadians hear from independent voices,

00:43:28.280 that there are journalists out there that aren't part of the parliamentary press gallery,

00:43:31.300 that aren't part of the media bailout package.

00:43:34.000 And that's why I think it's just so important.

00:43:35.840 If you support the work we do at True North, if you want to see more of these podcasts, more of our reporters,

00:43:40.400 that you head on over to tnc.news slash donate and consider making a donation.

00:43:45.040 We're trying to raise a lot of money to give you the kind of election coverage that we think that you deserve.

00:43:50.360 And, you know, it takes a lot.

00:43:53.040 And I'm so proud of the fact that we have so many people across the country that believe in us,

00:43:57.560 that believe in True North, that they're willing to open up their wallets.

00:43:59.720 It really does mean a lot, especially, you know, during this economy with so much uncertainty.

00:44:04.180 It really does mean a lot to us.

00:44:06.500 And so we are eternally grateful.

00:44:08.200 And, you know, Turnoff is growing.

00:44:10.680 It's great to see.

00:44:12.540 We have a team of interns that are now working, helping us break news stories, writing up reports.

00:44:17.720 We were able to get Sue Ann Levy, you know, one of the most famous journalists in Canada,

00:44:21.240 one of the most accomplished journalists on our team.

00:44:23.900 And, again, just the fact that we can recruit someone so high quality, it says a lot.

00:44:29.440 and I'm incredibly happy with the way that things are going.

00:44:32.780 And we're going to be doing more of these shows as well.

00:44:34.760 You know, this is sort of a trial run for us.

00:44:36.300 This is the first time we've done anything like this in a live studio.

00:44:39.720 And our goal is to do more of these kind of programs,

00:44:42.520 to bring you more news, to do these kind of shows

00:44:44.560 any time there's something of interest.

00:44:46.620 So we're going to do another one just like this

00:44:48.220 on the night of the English debate,

00:44:50.620 and then we'll be here again on election night on September 20th

00:44:53.780 doing a very similar kind of show.

00:44:55.240 So we've got a lot of exciting news planned.

00:44:57.740 We've got lots of reports coming.

00:44:59.140 We've got a bunch of breaking stories that we're going to be putting out throughout the campaign, you know, starting two days ago.

00:45:06.700 We were the first one to break the news that Pierre Lemieux will not be running as a conservative.

00:45:11.380 And we've got a bunch of other scoops coming down.

00:45:13.440 So, you know, thank you for tuning in.

00:45:15.440 Thank you for supporting our journalism.

00:45:17.600 And thank you to Anthony and Sue Ann for being here in person.

00:45:21.420 So what do you think the ballot box issue is going to be in this campaign?

00:45:25.520 And we were just talking to Danielle about this pandemic passport thing, this passport thing.

00:45:29.840 And, you know, I haven't really wrapped my head around how how disastrous it could be.

00:45:34.140 But the liberals want to make it that.

00:45:36.260 Yeah.

00:45:36.600 You know that.

00:45:37.220 But, you know, I was thinking as you were talking and as Danielle was talking that there are people who had a really bad reaction to the vaccine.

00:45:46.060 My neighbor had a clot in his heart.

00:45:49.620 So there are things that there are reasons that some people are not taking the vaccine.

00:45:55.520 And I think I'm fully vaccinated.

00:45:58.980 I got it in Florida because they were so slow up here.

00:46:02.820 I think what happened was outrageous up here.

00:46:06.760 And the fact that some people have had to mix vaccines, mix brands,

00:46:11.120 and may not be able to travel because of it or go to certain countries because of it is outrageous.

00:46:17.460 I think we should be talking.

00:46:19.360 Elections, you know, are typically not time to talk about policy.

00:46:23.620 And there's always that sort of cut and thrust kind of he did this today, he behaved this way, he said this.

00:46:33.920 But we really need, I think Canadians are crying for some idea of what happens next because we were in lockdown for over a year.

00:46:44.820 And, you know, people have suffered tremendously, whether it's health-wise, our health system suffered, people suffered.

00:46:53.620 businesses suffered, and I want to see a leader, I know from my own perspective, I'm sure you feel

00:47:00.560 the same way, both of you, who's going to be able to guide the country out of this.

00:47:07.960 Yeah, I mean, one of the frustrating things, I always wanted to hear more from Erin O'Toole

00:47:11.580 on all of that, because when we were in, you know, that second wave lockdown, or third wave lockdown,

00:47:16.880 or have you all throughout, I mean, there was, it was really a nation calling out for leadership,

00:47:20.820 And the governments failed, whether it was Justin Trudeau or Doug Ford, but the opposition leaders failed too.

00:47:27.640 I mean, wherever we were, federally, provincially, I just felt like opposition leaders dropped the ball.

00:47:32.820 I mean, the job of opposition parties is to oppose, to come up with other ideas, alternatives to point out the weaknesses in it.

00:47:38.280 But all we ever got was like, oh, well, can we do more lockdowns?

00:47:41.600 There were questions of, you know, Andrew talked about how, you know, process questions are such a big thing.

00:47:46.240 And that was really the only way like Aaron O'Toole would criticize the lockdown situation was questions of process.

00:47:51.860 You know, how are we going to deliver the vaccines? How are we going to stop these planes coming in and so forth?

00:47:56.140 Rather than let's step back and say, is this really what we want to be doing as a nation, you know, to our fellow citizens and so forth?

00:48:02.240 And it looks like he wants to have that conversation with mandatory vaccines and vaccine passports, which is great.

00:48:07.060 But we've got to see more of that, because to Sue Ann's point, I mean, leaders lead, you know, you've got to step up.

00:48:11.840 But what makes you different? What's the value added component? So I wonder if we'll see that.

00:48:15.780 also we see just events come in and change things you know the classic uh thing during election like

00:48:20.260 what's happening in afghanistan right now like you know totally like last helicopter out of vietnam

00:48:24.480 situation this is crazy stuff and obviously the liberals didn't expect this to well they should

00:48:29.040 have foresaw something like this in afghanistan happening around about this time uh kind of naive

00:48:33.600 of them but you know crazy stuff could still happen in the next five weeks so i don't know

00:48:36.920 what the ballot box question will be yeah no it's interesting i remember the 2015 election when it

00:48:41.000 was the syrian refugee issue that really came to the forefront and you know it led with this idea

00:48:44.900 that, you know, Harper hadn't let in this one family

00:48:47.400 and then they ended up sadly drowning in the agency.

00:48:50.540 It was the picture of that boy, Alan Kurdi, the two-year-old.

00:48:53.220 Yeah, and that really, like, you know,

00:48:54.780 Trudeau had this very generous Syrian refugee policy.

00:48:57.500 People already had this impression that Harper was kind of cruel

00:48:59.800 and mean-spirited or whatever, which is not true,

00:49:03.060 but that's sort of the perception the Liberals tried to paint of him.

00:49:05.360 And then, you know, I really do think that that swung the election.

00:49:07.980 It's a good point.

00:49:08.460 I'll just kind of disagree with you

00:49:11.440 because I actually think Aaron O'Toole's been doing a pretty good job.

00:49:13.740 I think that he's shown incredible discipline in not jumping into the issues that he doesn't want to.

00:49:18.860 So I see that he has made a strategy that he wants to run as an economic, he wants to be an economic guy.

00:49:25.640 He wants to run on the fiscal issues.

00:49:27.660 He doesn't want to talk about cultural stuff.

00:49:29.400 He doesn't want to talk about social issues.

00:49:30.980 When it comes to sort of non-economic policies, you know, he's pretty good on China.

00:49:35.800 And otherwise, you see him kind of not really standing out in any way.

00:49:39.720 And that's frustrating for people like me and people like you.

00:49:42.060 But I think that's the strategy. I think that the idea is, you know, we've had too many elections that have been lost by conservatives because of social issues. Cultural issues are divisive. Let's try to run a campaign on the economic issues, which we're solid on. And Trudeau is a total mess.

00:49:57.500 And so, you know, what I see is sort of the strategy that they're kind of doing this in a way to really show that the thing that they want, the thing they care about, is the economic side of the equation.

00:50:09.220 Trudeau's finances are a total mess, as we were talking about.

00:50:11.500 And so I think that O'Toole's been doing a pretty good job.

00:50:14.940 And from what I've seen so far, just, you know, today, he seemed confident.

00:50:18.220 I think that he's really hitting his stride as leader.

00:50:20.240 No, he is prime ministerial in his presentation.

00:50:23.260 That's for sure.

00:50:24.120 Absolutely.

00:50:24.440 Well, I want to announce something really exciting that we have going on at True North.

00:50:29.400 We have decided to bring on and hire an in-house pollster for the duration of the campaign.

00:50:34.460 We want someone who is able to provide analysis, give us a better understanding of the demographics of the country,

00:50:40.880 figure out which ridings to look out for, where the selection is going to be fought, where it's going to be won.

00:50:46.760 So I'm tremendously proud, excited to announce that Hamish Marshall will be joining True North as our in-house pollster.

00:50:53.220 And unfortunately, Hamish is at the cottage because, you know, who would have known that the election was going to happen today in the middle of August.

00:50:59.560 But fortunately, I was able to catch up with Hamish a couple of days ago before he left.

00:51:04.680 And he really just provided a lot of context about what he's going to be doing for True North and give you a little bit of a sneak peek as to what you can expect from True North through this campaign.

00:51:15.520 So let's play that interview, please.

00:51:17.580 We are incredibly excited to announce that True North has hired Hamish Marshall as our

00:51:27.380 in-house pollster for the duration of the election campaign. Hamish, welcome to True North. Welcome

00:51:32.500 to the show. Thanks so much, Candice. It's fantastic to be here. It's great to be working

00:51:35.980 with your amazing team. Well, thank you. Before we get into the questions, I just want to tell

00:51:40.880 the viewers a little bit more about you, Hamish. You are a partner at One Persuasion. You were the

00:51:45.780 conservative party's national campaign manager in the 2019 federal election. You ran Andrew Scheer's

00:51:52.340 winning leadership campaign, and you were also Prime Minister Stephen Harper's pollster who

00:51:57.180 helped the conservatives win that majority government in 2011. Hamish is one of the

00:52:02.140 brightest guys in the country, and it really is an honor to have him on our team. Did I miss

00:52:06.740 anything there, Hamish? Well, it was actually 2008 that I was the national pollster. Oh, sorry about

00:52:11.760 that? I just want to be accurate. But no, that's great. I live in Toronto and hang out with my

00:52:17.620 kids a lot, and it's wonderful to be here. Great. Well, let's get into some questions then. So

00:52:22.680 why did Justin Trudeau trigger this election? Because he wants to win a majority. That's the

00:52:28.860 only thing this election is really about at core, is Justin Trudeau trying to win the 14 or 15

00:52:34.320 more seats he needs in order to win a majority. That's why it's happening.

00:52:39.100 I mean how is that really a ballot box question like how is that a proposition to Canadians do

00:52:45.180 you think he'll be punished for um being so callous and saying you know uh we need an election because

00:52:50.300 I want to get a majority government uh no I I actually I actually don't think he's gonna be

00:52:55.500 punished there's been some research done by other pollsters uh on this um you know the vast majority

00:53:01.420 of Canadians say it doesn't really bother them having an election uh people are generally fairly

00:53:06.700 happy with how Trudeau has handled COVID. But I think more than anything else, what's making

00:53:12.320 things different, this snap election is supposed to sort of any other random snap election,

00:53:17.820 is the idea that whether the, you know, however the fourth wave plays out, COVID's clearly,

00:53:24.780 we're coming to the end of the COVID interruption in public life. And there's a natural sense that

00:53:32.120 something that perhaps something different or new will happen afterwards and therefore having an

00:53:36.680 election to kick that off to have a new government or maybe it's the same government who can take the

00:53:42.440 country through whatever it is that comes post-COVID uh makes some sense to people so

00:53:48.120 i i don't believe he's going to be uh he's going to be punished uh by this uh at the moment

00:53:54.280 okay interesting yeah so i mean we talked about how you talked about how you know this is the

00:53:59.320 sort of post-COVID election so much of our lives have changed since COVID um you know just in

00:54:06.040 our way of life or economy what we're used to um how will that impact this election like

00:54:11.160 i know there's some talk about voter uh voter turnout might be lower because people are afraid

00:54:15.480 to kind of go out into public um or you know maybe they're just not as motivated because

00:54:20.120 they don't really see a need for a change how do you think it will impact this election well

00:54:25.320 Well, I think primarily COVID is going to impact the mechanics of the election.

00:54:30.060 So I think it can be depending on the province and depending on the city

00:54:33.300 and the rules that are imposed, you could see quite a lot of door knocking in some places

00:54:39.420 and not a lot in others.

00:54:41.000 You could see some parties wanting to engage more digitally

00:54:43.280 and others still wanting to do things face to face.

00:54:46.420 And whether or not the number of people who feel comfortable opening their door

00:54:49.500 to a stranger to have a conversation about politics on their doorstep

00:54:52.400 is probably going to be lower than it is normally.

00:54:56.340 So that makes things a little different.

00:54:58.260 The other thing which isn't clear so far

00:55:01.960 is whether Elections Canada

00:55:03.340 will have to make more accommodations

00:55:05.640 because of the pandemic.

00:55:07.080 Will there be more,

00:55:08.640 will they be pushing the ability to vote by mail?

00:55:11.200 Anybody can already vote by mail.

00:55:12.660 It's a pretty easy process,

00:55:14.220 but will Elections Canada be investing

00:55:16.380 a lot of money in advertising

00:55:17.460 to really make that option very, very well known?

00:55:20.640 um and of course always there's always the potential of if uh the fourth wave um becomes

00:55:26.880 very severe of some sort of delay or something as we saw in the newfoundland election

00:55:31.200 uh a little while ago where the election kept on getting delayed by weeks and weeks and weeks and

00:55:35.840 the whole thing descended into farce so i think it's more around the mechanics i think turnout

00:55:40.080 was going to be down in this election anyway um while i think trudeau's got a good shot of a

00:55:45.360 majority i don't think there's a vast amount of enthusiasm there there isn't a huge desire for

00:55:49.920 change their desire for change is lower than it was in the past usually desire for change is one

00:55:54.880 of the main things that increases turnout so i think we're going to experience a a lower turnout

00:56:00.160 election um than we've had in the last last couple say something you said just made me think do you

00:56:06.960 think that there will be election integrity issues i know that that was a big issue down in the

00:56:12.240 states for their 2020 campaign we we did hear a lot uh not recently but about a year ago about

00:56:18.640 you know the potential for foreign meddling in the election you don't really hear that

00:56:21.680 storyline too much anymore but is that something that you think that canadians should be concerned

00:56:26.160 about the the vote by mail system uh that that we have in canada and you know this could change if

00:56:32.960 if circumstances change but i probably can't in the middle of election the system we have in canada

00:56:38.720 is depends on people requesting a vote by mail ballot not having the ballot sent to them and i

00:56:43.360 think that's a key part in election integrity that somebody has to request it and then send it back

00:56:48.400 Look, there's always the chance that some people will fiddle around with the rules and try to break the rules somehow.

00:56:56.160 But that's going to happen in any election where there's tens of millions of people involved.

00:56:59.240 There's always going to be some skullduggery.

00:57:01.760 But frankly, I think the way we've got the things set up right now minimizes the chance of election integrity issues.

00:57:09.800 But, you know, there's always a chance of something.

00:57:12.960 Hamish, you're the expert when it comes to understanding Canadians, the demographics and the numbers.

00:57:17.600 So why don't you help us get a better idea of where this election is going to be fought and potentially where it's going to be won?

00:57:24.240 We know that the Liberals tend to do very well in eastern Canada, that the Conservatives can rely on the prairies.

00:57:29.200 What about the rest of the country and where should Canadians look to really understand how this campaign is playing out?

00:57:34.700 So I think this is an election, you know, if I was sitting in Liberal campaign headquarters, who are people calling this election,

00:57:39.740 and we're trying to figure out how to get a majority, how to pick up, say, 15, 16 seats.

00:57:44.100 they've got a few seats extra they probably want they want 20 but let's say they want 15 or 16.

00:57:49.780 i'd be looking where those seats are and unlike it's very different circumstances than face the

00:57:54.500 conservatives or the ndp or the liberals in past elections where it's about winning a large number

00:57:58.980 of seats in one area and switching uh having a breakthrough in an area and winning a large group

00:58:03.780 of seats when you're looking to pick up you know a dozen 15 20 seats it's about finding them in

00:58:09.380 ones and twos and threes so i think we're actually gonna have a very um a bit of a different election

00:58:14.260 from that perspective it's not about for the liberals it's not about how do i win 15 more

00:58:18.500 seats in the 905 or something like that it's going to be okay here's three or four seats in bc i think

00:58:23.300 we can we've got a chance at winning uh you know the liberals don't have any seats in alberta you

00:58:27.860 know calgary uh skyview's got to be the top of their their target list they're running a good

00:58:32.980 candidate there calgary center's uh always on their target list uh there's uh edmonton center

00:58:39.140 and you know you might say well maybe they could maybe the liberals can only pick up two seats in

00:58:42.580 alberta but two when you're only going for 16 15 or 16 two is a good chunk of that right you know

00:58:48.260 the liberals just announced they've a very very strong candidate the former uh ndp mla uh in

00:58:53.860 northern saskatchewan's been an mla there for 20 odd years he's running the northern saskatchewan

00:58:58.820 seat that's a seat that you know that's probably the only seat in saskatchewan liberals have any

00:59:03.460 chance of winning and people can write it off but no if you're if you only need to 15 what

00:59:07.460 what each seat's important so i think what you're going to see is a very atomized strategy where

00:59:10.980 liberals are going after you know so the prairies the conservatives might the liberals might only

00:59:14.980 pick up three or four seats in the prairies but that might be a quarter of what they need or 20

00:59:19.300 of what they need overall you know add another two or three in bc they can pick up um you know

00:59:24.740 know, two or three in Quebec, maybe two in Atlantic Canada, suddenly you're getting, you know,

00:59:31.020 you're suddenly you're in the low teens, and you only need to pick up a few, three or four or five

00:59:35.320 in Ontario. So it's not going to be all about, you know, the for the Liberals is not going to be all

00:59:40.380 about we just have to win the 905 or win this one area, it's going to be all these atomized little

00:59:44.380 races around the country, which is going to make it sort of interesting and a little bit different.

00:59:49.880 Interesting. Okay, so what about the Conservatives? Which demographics do they need to appeal to to

00:59:54.480 win? Who do they need to win over in order to have a chance at winning this election?

00:59:59.280 So I went and looked at how the Conservatives are doing now versus how they were doing when

01:00:03.880 Stephen Harper won in 2011. And it is, it's quite striking the difference. Look,

01:00:11.320 Conservatives have to do better with every group. You know, typically speaking, older men are from

01:00:18.160 a demographic perspective are the most reliable Conservative voters. And the Conservatives,

01:00:23.120 depending on the poll have somewhere 40 odd percent of that vote 40 45 47 depending on the

01:00:28.960 different pollsters but when harper was you know winning this majority of conservatives got probably

01:00:33.200 close to 60 percent of that vote so even in that core group they need to grow that by 8 10 12 points

01:00:39.360 so they need to grow everywhere um but what the most striking thing uh is the change among among

01:00:46.800 women among especially women over 35. so uh when harper was winning majority government when harper

01:00:51.520 one is majority government, women over 55 voted conservative not as much as men over 55 but by a

01:00:59.680 pretty good number and conservatives regularly won that group of voters. That group moved

01:01:09.760 Justin Trudeau in a big way in 2015 and the conservatives have never been entirely able to

01:01:14.320 get that back and the other interesting thing is the group of women in sort of middle-aged 1.00

01:01:21.120 women 35 to 55 moms with kids at homes you know harper and his best days was able to win that

01:01:26.960 group but not by a lot anybody even an election that you know he didn't win a majority some of

01:01:31.600 his minority wins he was able to sort of at least tie liberals with that group now the conservatives

01:01:36.480 are i don't know 15 20 points behind that group again depending on which poster you look at

01:01:41.200 and you know you look winning middle-aged women is not something that conservatives need to win 0.85

01:01:46.320 that group by a huge amount but they can't lose they have to tie that group uh and that's a that's

01:01:52.720 the big big big problem they need to be able to to tie with middle-aged women and win older women 1.00

01:01:58.160 or just win women over 35 in general uh and without that uh path victory is going to be 0.76

01:02:03.920 difficult interesting yeah it's interesting to think about what kind of policies the conservatives

01:02:09.200 could use to appeal to the to those kind of um demographics uh you know um the liberals are

01:02:15.680 making a lot of hay about their child care announcements and um the idea of having these

01:02:20.480 national government-run daycare uh initiatives clearly that is aimed at that uh you know mom

01:02:26.880 mom demographic with kids at home but it's hard it's hard to it's hard to put your finger on what

01:02:30.800 the conservatives have uh to counter that with yeah look i mean i think i think that group uh

01:02:38.800 they're interested in the members of that group that are open to voting conservative who aren't

01:02:43.200 voting conservative today are interested in many of the same things that other voters who are

01:02:46.560 interested in voting it's open to voting conservative are um and you know the most

01:02:50.800 important thing is going to be there's going to be a clear message and a clear vision of what

01:02:54.960 voting conservative means what about uh new canadians i know that um part of the big 2011

01:03:01.280 majority uh rested on the 905 which is this suburban region around toronto and this idea

01:03:06.400 that that a lot of new canadians uh were were finally voting conservative is is that still

01:03:11.440 the case do you see that at all in your polling so chinese canadians are historically have been

01:03:16.800 an enormous strength of uh source of strength for conservatives uh conservatives won the chinese

01:03:22.000 canadian vote clearly in in 2011 uh still won it in 2015 and in 2019 won it of the four uh most uh

01:03:30.800 four ridings the most number of of canes of chinese origin uh conservatives won three and

01:03:38.000 missed the fourth missed one other one by 200 votes um so it's a strong group chinese canadians

01:03:44.800 vote uh are more likely to vote conservative than uh than white canadians um other groups have not

01:03:52.480 been as strong for the conservatives in in uh 2011 uh when conservatives won the election uh tied

01:03:59.520 the liberals with indo-canadians effectively but that was a huge a huge uh a huge victory in many

01:04:04.880 ways because uh tying with that the group that's been typically pro-liberal was was was a source

01:04:11.520 of great deal of success everything we can see right now in 2019 uh and then and subsequent to

01:04:17.200 then is that conservatives are a long way behind uh with that group um the big question you know

01:04:23.120 is going to be whether they'll be able to hang on to the uh the chinese canadian vote uh and that's

01:04:29.440 going to you know that takes effort it can't be taken for granted interesting all right we talked

01:04:33.520 a little bit about the liberals we talked a little bit about the conservatives uh let's

01:04:36.400 talk about the ndp um you know uh the sort of conventional wisdom is that the better that the

01:04:41.600 ndp does um you know the worse it is for liberals better it is for conservatives and that if a

01:04:47.280 conservative um is doing really well and it's close and liberals will will fall back on their

01:04:52.160 time-honored uh tested strategy of scaring ndp voters into voting for a liberal so how do you

01:04:58.000 think uh jagmeet singh will play out in this election will he potentially be a spoiler and

01:05:01.840 And what are his odds looking like?

01:05:04.480 Yeah, I mean, I think Jagmeet Singh has done a decent job in the last two years of making himself a safe harbour for disgruntled Greens,

01:05:12.800 which have many reasons to be disgruntled these days, and Liberals, progressive voters.

01:05:18.580 The overall people right now, advocates just did a poll, people think Liberals are going to win the election.

01:05:24.900 45% of people think Liberals are going to win, compared to only 18% people think Conservatives are going to win.

01:05:29.180 Only 9% of NDP voters right now think that the Conservatives are going to win the election, which means that unless things change dramatically, the Liberals' ability to scare those NDP voters with the prospect of a Conservative victory is reasonably smaller than it has been in the past.

01:05:51.060 That can be very, very good news for Jagmeet Singh, because it'll allow him to pick up 2%, 3%, 4% perhaps in some key writings.

01:05:58.320 the question becomes for him is well i've no doubt that will buoy his overall popular vote

01:06:04.720 number especially in ontario it's not clear to me that it will result in many more seats

01:06:10.480 you know especially in a lot of these seats in the 905 you know the ndp going from 17 and a 905 seat

01:06:16.400 to 21 you know might be enough maybe it's a split that will help the conservatives depending on the

01:06:22.720 circumstances but it certainly isn't enough for the ndp to win they're so far back in many of these

01:06:27.440 905 seats and that's that's the big thing so will the ndp get more votes at the moment it looks that

01:06:32.880 way uh but will it turn into dramatically more seats uh that's i'm sure it'll turn into a few

01:06:38.640 more seats but will they go from uh you know the 20 uh something seats they won last time to 30 or

01:06:45.040 four you know 35 or 45 seats at the moment i don't think it's looking that way all right

01:06:51.120 uh i got a few more questions for you the first one is uh you know ndp tends to be a spoiler for

01:06:56.400 the liberals there's been a couple of new upstart right-wing parties out on the horizon and i was

01:07:02.240 wondering if you could give uh the viewers some understanding of whether or not any of those

01:07:07.360 parties um have a shot at you know spoiling a um a potential conservative mp um and and making them

01:07:16.720 lose because of splitting the vote on the right yeah i mean i think i think it's potential i mean

01:07:20.880 in 2019 um you know the the the people's party mexican brainy's people party party got you know 0.63

01:07:26.640 1.6 percent of the vote nationwide and depending how you want to count it uh cost conservatives

01:07:33.360 six or seven seats um so not enough to fundamentally change the nature of the election

01:07:38.480 but it certainly would have been a stronger result um uh so they can certainly have an impact there

01:07:45.200 on a few seats the question for me is you know we've seen the maverick party uh you know the

01:07:50.160 rebranded in western independence party we've seen them they've got 20 something candidates nominated

01:07:57.440 there seem to be running primarily in seats uh where they're not likely to make a big difference

01:08:03.040 you know they don't have a candidate in edmonton center i believe for instance um so the chances

01:08:07.840 you know if they're running a candidate in some rural alberta seat and the conservative np gets

01:08:13.360 you know 80 of the vote instead of 85 doesn't make much of a difference um so they don't seem

01:08:19.840 to be making much difference the question for the on the People's Party is the People's Party as

01:08:26.720 far as I can tell seems to have more from being in populist anti-immigration party to sort of a

01:08:34.560 populist anti-vaccination party and whether they'll be able to profit from that is unclear to me

01:08:45.520 they might very well be there there's a lot of people who've got a lot of concerns about

01:08:48.480 vaccination and then they could very well go for the pbc the interesting thing is those voters are

01:08:53.680 no more likely are are not significantly more likely to be conservatives in fact we've seen

01:08:58.800 public research that shows that the the voters who are most likely to be concerned about vaccinations

01:09:04.000 are actually middle-aged women who are more likely to vote liberal so if the ppc with the right

01:09:08.720 candidate can can happen to some anti-vax um sentiment in some constituencies the the chances

01:09:16.880 of the that will disproportionately hurt the conservatives i think is actually relatively low

01:09:20.240 i think they'll draw from everybody um the one obvious exception is is maxine bernier

01:09:26.160 maxine bernier running in the boats is always a threat and shouldn't be taken uh for granted 0.98

01:09:30.880 although i think you know the conservative mp there richard lewes is very very strong and very

01:09:37.040 well liked and has a very strong local record um and my suspicion is that um uh bernier is gonna

01:09:44.320 actually have a harder time than he did last time but he can't be can't be ignored it's interesting

01:09:48.960 hamish i always thought of the anti-vaccination campaign as a fixture of

01:09:57.600 is the big question for the conservatives is whether they'll basically write an election

01:10:03.360 saying let's deny trudeau his majority versus left of them uh what to do and that's further

01:10:10.240 confuses the issue so i think there's layers upon layers into this vaccine hesitancy or outright

01:10:15.280 anti-vax activism interesting yeah and we'll definitely continue to unpack that throughout

01:10:20.080 the campaign all right hey my final question here so what what is the ballot boxes i know

01:10:25.200 it's early days the campaign was just announced but you know looking at things now you know is

01:10:29.920 this election to be fought over covered management and spending or are canadians sick of that and are

01:10:34.000 we going to have you know some some other issues that come to the forefront what do you think the

01:10:38.320 ballot question will be in this election well i mean i think at core about question is does

01:10:43.120 trudeau deserve a majority um and that's really what his core message is going to be it's going

01:10:48.080 to be he deserves a majority because he's got all these big plans and if it's fought over um

01:10:53.920 coveted management i think he's gonna that he's happy with that background as well

01:10:57.920 um uh there was a survey the other day angus we did a survey it said 51 percent acadians

01:11:02.800 think that the pm has done a good job of managing uh covet you know in that same survey i think the

01:11:09.040 liberals at 36 so 15 of people who aren't even voting liberal think he's done a good job so this

01:11:14.000 is a very you know that that's the ballot question they'll be very very happy about that um you know

01:11:20.160 the question is the big question for the conservatives is whether they'll basically

01:11:25.920 run an election saying let's deny trudeau his majority versus you know elect a conservative

01:11:31.280 government um and and you know at which that's a big strategic trade-off and we'll we'll see

01:11:37.440 what they go about the way they do but i i i see it this as does trudeau deserve a majority time

01:11:42.960 for a change numbers are lower than they were uh two years ago trudeau is more popular today not

01:11:47.600 dramatically but he is more popular today than he was for this point before the 2019 campaign um

01:11:54.320 things that view the country is generally better than it was then so i i think as a as a ballot

01:11:59.840 question it's not a it's not a bad one for the liberals and that's why they're having we're

01:12:04.240 having an election right now is because they think they can win on those terms well thank

01:12:08.560 you so much hamish you've been very insightful and i know uh i'm personally excited to have you

01:12:13.120 joining us throughout the campaign i know our viewers will too uh what what can we expect from

01:12:17.440 you throughout this campaign well i'll be i'll be joining you on on some shows i'll be uh writing a

01:12:22.160 little bit for uh for true north uh and we should have some interesting uh proprietary research uh

01:12:27.840 that's exclusive to Triorth, which hopefully will shed some light on things that the mainstream

01:12:34.920 media isn't covering. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us. We look forward to having

01:12:39.260 you on the campaign. My pleasure. So happy to have Hamish Marshall joining the team. Andrew Lawton

01:12:50.900 here from Ottawa, where the election call was going down today. And we've talked a fair bit

01:12:57.220 this show about the bigger picture, higher level aspects. I want to get into the weeds in just a

01:13:02.420 moment. We've got a couple of conservative candidates standing by. We'll get to Garnet

01:13:07.060 Jenis in a couple of moments and Kathy Wagenthal in just a moment. But I do want to tell you all

01:13:12.400 of these things that we're doing here are so important in a media landscape that is so often

01:13:17.940 not favorable to the issues that those of you watching, those of you who subscribe to True

01:13:22.480 North pay attention to. I'm in Ottawa right now. I didn't walk here. I've got to get back home.

01:13:27.780 Even traveling around to be where the story is comes with a cost. If you can chip in

01:13:31.860 to support our election coverage, please head over to donate.tnc.news, donate.tnc.news.

01:13:40.240 And we love that you're watching. We love that you share it. It's so important. But again,

01:13:44.120 we have to be able to make this coverage happen for all these people that are going to be receptive

01:13:48.400 to these issues, but just aren't exposed to us. And that's why we're so glad to be doing this

01:13:52.860 and covering this campaign. Kathy Wagenthal is a longtime conservative member of parliament in

01:13:58.920 Yorkton, Melville, Saskatchewan, and now the conservative candidate in Yorkton, Melville,

01:14:04.400 one of those technicalities of an election. Kathy, good to have you on the show. Thanks for joining me.

01:14:09.800 Thanks for having me, Andrew. Appreciate it.

01:14:12.000 Let's start with what I think in a lot of context to the media is the elephant in the room, which is

01:14:17.400 the fact that the Conservative Party of Canada has in the caucus a number of social conservatives,

01:14:23.200 a number of social conservative voters in Canada of conservative persuasions and sometimes not

01:14:29.060 conservative on other issues. And we were told in 2019 that these were issues that just shouldn't

01:14:35.440 be entertained in an election. And I know there's been a fair bit of discussion within the party on

01:14:40.440 this. You've been a very prominent voice in the Conservative Party and in Canada on social issues.

01:14:45.820 You introduced a really very unique and I think a very important bill not that long ago dealing with sex-selective abortion.

01:14:53.880 What's your message to Canadians that are oftentimes conflicted about these issues based on kind of what they're told to think about them from the media coverage of campaigns?

01:15:04.500 Yeah, I think you've nailed it there.

01:15:06.480 They are told certain things by the media.

01:15:09.940 And what I have found in being out amongst Canadians on this issue is that they are not polarized the way the media and some political parties would like them to be in regards to the issue of abortion, specifically on certain issues.

01:15:27.960 And sex-selective abortion is one that 84% of Canadians want a law against.

01:15:33.260 So clearly, when you're talking about that critical mass, that is a significant number of Canadians that go well beyond the borders of the Conservative Party, and obviously into many other parties as well.

01:15:47.100 So what we have here is an issue that I would like to see dealt with in a way that pleases Canadians.

01:15:53.600 There's no laws at all in Canada around abortion, and there are certain things that are important to Canadians that they want to see those limitations there.

01:16:02.680 So I think our problem, as you probably saw, if you did follow the bill at all, is that it isn't Canadians that are the problem. 0.98

01:16:09.720 It's the other political parties that have set parameters on anyone who wants to run in their party to have certain perspectives on these issues, or they can't even run.

01:16:19.320 And that, to me, is not democracy, and they're no longer reflecting the views of Canadians.

01:16:23.680 One thing that I would point out here that I found interesting, this morning at the very first hour of the campaign, one prominent Liberal MP, Bartish Chagher, had jumped in and made some comment about how Aaron O'Toole lets his caucus vote in accordance with their conscience, as though that's a criticism.

01:16:43.220 And I'm curious if you could explain the dynamic here, because Aaron O'Toole, the party leader, has not been a social conservative voice himself, but he has been clear in supporting free votes.

01:16:54.020 As someone who served as an MP in the last parliament is hopefully going to be serving again in the next parliament.

01:17:00.660 How do you address the concerns that some social conservative members of the party have put forward that, you know what, the leader is not necessarily where we are on these issues?

01:17:09.760 Sure. Actually, I'm able to say that I am comfortable with that in the fact that, as you

01:17:16.240 say, Aaron, it's not that he allows, it's that we have the privilege. And certainly, when it comes

01:17:23.520 to presenting a private member's bill, that is something that I, as a member of parliament,

01:17:28.240 take very seriously. And we are well represented in the party. And we have amazing opportunities

01:17:35.360 to have discussions in our caucus i cannot imagine what it's like to be in those other parties and

01:17:40.080 trying to navigate in the way that canadians want us to on a lot of these issues and that is to

01:17:46.240 actually have conversation actually have debate and still hold each other in high regard and that

01:17:52.560 is certainly the approach that i took when aaron you know made it very clear that he would not be

01:17:56.400 supporting the bill but we have an opportunity in our party and this is what i do tell a lot

01:18:02.320 lot of my colleagues and people who do get concerned that we have an opportunity in the

01:18:07.020 Conservative Party of Canada that no other party provides to their members. And I believe that we

01:18:13.340 as social conservatives have played a significant role on an awful lot of bills in the House,

01:18:18.540 specifically, you know, you think of MAID. We had the opportunity to raise it to an issue where

01:18:25.480 we got the support of every disability group across Canada as they became more and more aware

01:18:31.960 of the dynamics of that bill so that sense of where the true compassion is in this country

01:18:36.900 it's in the conservative party i think that's an important point and i know that oftentimes

01:18:42.740 social conservatives tend to get typecast into very narrow issues you know people brought this

01:18:49.020 up with andrew sheeran in 2019 of oh he's just trying to litigate re-litigate same-sex marriage

01:18:53.740 which wasn't the case you have all of these coming to the forefront now on medically assisted dying

01:19:00.080 on the sex elective abortion question, even now with vaccinations, there are a lot of questions

01:19:06.480 about personal choice and, and conscience rights for healthcare practitioners. And I spoke out

01:19:11.700 about the assisted dying bill significantly, because I'm a survivor of a suicide attempt,

01:19:16.500 I've done mental health advocacy. And this was a bill where most of the mental health groups

01:19:21.320 were themselves very concerned with a bill that was really legitimizing this culture that, you

01:19:28.280 know, we should take away hope from people that are in crisis. And, you know, in a lot of cases,

01:19:33.480 there were even some liberals in the Senate that seemed eventually receptive to this idea. Not

01:19:38.800 enough of them, mind you, but receptive to this idea that I don't think we should be ramming this

01:19:43.100 bill forward exactly as it's being presented. Absolutely not. You know, I had a wonderful

01:19:48.160 conversation with a wonderful young man who came to me to talk about C6, the conversion therapy

01:19:54.540 bill, who is gay and was concerned and was so pleased to have the conversation with me to

01:19:59.520 understand the true perspective of this bill within the Conservative Party. We come at it from

01:20:05.720 different angles. And, you know, it's said that we're divided on it. We're not. We all agree that

01:20:12.760 there must be a ban on conversion therapy. We just had different perspectives on how that should be

01:20:19.080 done. And when we have the opportunity to form government, you know, our shadow minister indicated

01:20:23.940 right away that this is something very important to us and you know he's he brought up the issue

01:20:28.980 of made and said that you know if the way that they are putting it forward now had been available

01:20:34.740 to him a year or two earlier he would have taken his own life and he is very upset that they have

01:20:41.580 broadened uh the definition of the capability of an individual to get assisted suicide within 24

01:20:49.540 hours and so uh he was very very pleased with the approach that we as a party took on these issues

01:20:57.300 i know we've been talking a lot about the social issues in the campaign i think they are important

01:21:01.860 and i've never made that a secret but i wanted to put to you what you think some of the other issues

01:21:06.580 are that are going to be valid issues for people in your riding and across the country as we go

01:21:11.700 through the next few weeks sure well there's definitely a concern in my riding about the

01:21:16.580 approach that this government has taken to our freedoms and they're very concerned about the

01:21:22.900 potential of moving our whole society and our economic prosperity to an approach of you know

01:21:31.140 this basic income and taking away the opportunities and the privileges to be a canadian and to to

01:21:40.100 become self-sufficient and to succeed in our society on the basis of everyone having the

01:21:45.940 same opportunity and being able to move forward and succeed within the economy. So there's no

01:21:53.460 question that securing the future is really important, that there is a real desire to see

01:22:00.740 the benefits that are attached to COVID be removed so that we can get back to having people employed.

01:22:07.220 So many of my businesses have signs up saying they're looking for employees and no one is

01:22:13.220 coming forward, they are not able to open the way that they want to because people are not coming

01:22:19.180 back to work because they have this free money available to them. And they're very concerned

01:22:25.240 that he's taking advantage of the circumstances of COVID to really shut down our economy and move

01:22:31.680 us to more of a state-controlled government. Yorkton Melville Conservative candidate and

01:22:36.420 long-time MP Kathy Wagenthal. Kathy, thank you so much for coming on tonight.

01:22:41.180 Thank you.

01:22:42.820 Thanks.

01:22:43.380 We are making this a truly national discussion.

01:22:45.960 I'm in Ottawa.

01:22:46.660 We've got our studio in Toronto, which we'll go back to in just a moment here.

01:22:51.520 And I do want to say something because this afternoon I went to Maxime Bernier's launch.

01:22:57.040 The People's Party of Canada had its kickoff press conference as well.

01:23:00.340 And it was actually quite astonishing how few members of the media were there.

01:23:06.280 There were a couple of Radio Canada reporters.

01:23:08.880 There was a CBC reporter who had phoned in, but not a lot of coverage.

01:23:13.440 And I know Candace in her chat with Hamish Marshall addressed this to some extent.

01:23:17.260 We're talking about a party that in 2019 got a relatively small percentage of the vote.

01:23:22.560 But I still think it's an important aspect of the conservative movement.

01:23:26.480 And certainly we hear from people all the time that are very frustrated with the status quo conservative party that say they're voting PPC.

01:23:33.660 We have the Maverick Party.

01:23:35.100 We even have some people in Quebec that are taking a bit more of a regionalist approach

01:23:40.200 that isn't the Bloc Québécois.

01:23:42.880 And one thing I've actually been very proud of in the coverage at True North since before

01:23:47.720 I joined it, and certainly since then as well, is the interest in covering these parties

01:23:52.540 that don't often make it onto the mainstream media's radar.

01:23:56.200 You look at how the Green Party has been, by the media, elevated to this very significant

01:24:02.280 status that is vastly larger than its actual electoral footprint. And I'm saying, well,

01:24:08.880 why aren't we doing that with parties on the right? So that's a big part of what True North

01:24:13.720 is doing, covering the PPC, covering the Maverick Party, covering the Conservative Party of Canada,

01:24:20.100 Justin Trudeau. I even went to an NDP press conference last time. I don't know if they'll

01:24:24.220 let me in this time, but that is a big part of it here. And again, I'll say if you can support

01:24:29.180 this work that we're doing, please do head on over to donate.tnc.news. Donate.tnc.news.

01:24:36.460 And with that, we will go back to the studio with Candace Malcolm, Anthony Fury, and Sue Ann Levy.

01:24:44.620 Thank you so much for the work that you're doing on the ground in Ottawa. It's great to have

01:24:47.980 reporters doing the work that I wish the mainstream media would do a little bit more.

01:24:52.460 You know, you're going to the events, just the pure fact that you went and covered the People's

01:24:56.140 party uh when like you said there's so few people that are willing to do that i mean maxine bernier

01:25:00.300 was a former cabinet minister of this country like if there was a left-wing cabinet minister

01:25:04.220 that left the liberal party inserted their own party you know that the cbc would be there you

01:25:09.100 know that the that the mainstream media legacy media parliamentary press gallery would be there

01:25:13.580 and the fact that it's happening on the conservative side it's like no we're too good to go there we're

01:25:19.100 too good to touch it so i'm so pleased to have you on the ground and hopefully you're going to

01:25:22.780 continue to do these breaking reports throughout the campaign. That's certainly the plan.

01:25:28.600 Great, thank you so much. And now we have another MP that's going to jump on with us, Garnett

01:25:33.000 Janis, and it's great to have him on the program as well. So I'll just quickly read your bio here,

01:25:40.160 Garnett. Garnett is a Conservative Member of Parliament for Sherwood Park. He was first

01:25:43.700 selected in 2015 and re-elected in 2019. He's the Shadow Minister for International Development and

01:25:49.020 human rights for the official opposition. Prior to his election, Garnett worked as an advisor in the

01:25:54.340 Prime Minister's office to then Prime Minister Stephen Harper. So Garnett, thank you so much

01:25:58.620 for joining our program. Thank you. It's great to be with you. And my camera may be a little funny

01:26:04.500 here, so I don't know if you can see me properly. But either way, it's great to be able to have this

01:26:09.280 conversation today. It's good and sounds good to me. So Garnett, what do you make of the election

01:26:14.380 being called today and kind of this new wedge issue that the prime minister has introduced the

01:26:19.100 idea that we need to have vaccine passports in order to travel uh inter-provincially and that

01:26:24.780 you know if you work for a federal government or a federally regulated industry which is incredibly

01:26:28.540 vast uh that you need to get a vaccine passport well it's interesting because the prime minister

01:26:33.260 himself had called these these types of measures divisive in the past uh the conservative party i

01:26:40.380 want to be very clear is supportive of individual freedom. We're also supportive of vaccinations.

01:26:45.980 We recognize the value and we encourage people to get vaccinations. And we also believe in

01:26:51.980 individual choice. And it's funny how at one time in this country, what it meant to be liberal in

01:26:56.220 the small l sense was saying that you might believe something is good and beneficial,

01:27:01.820 but you're not going to try to impose that on somebody else, even if you think it's the right

01:27:05.820 decision to make we we've we've moved away from that with the big al liberal party and i think

01:27:10.860 that's quite evident today something that is entirely illiberal you're saying that if you're

01:27:17.900 not willing to get something that look i i agree i'm double vaccinated i think it's incredibly

01:27:22.940 important for canadians to get vaccinated i also know someone who had a vaccine injury when she was

01:27:27.740 two years old and because of it she actually can't get vaccinated so it's like you know

01:27:32.860 what about people like that? What about people in different situations? You know, there's

01:27:36.080 polling from Statistics Canada that shows that the highest vaccine hesitancy community

01:27:41.800 is black Canadians, that some 55% of black Canadians say that they don't want to get

01:27:46.420 vaccinated. So it's so weird that we have a liberal government that is going to be imposing 0.90

01:27:51.440 these kind of policies. And I hope that you conservatives stand out against it. Garnett,

01:27:56.980 you're sort of the go-to guy when it comes to human rights abuses, foreign affairs. I know

01:28:02.200 that's that's really your house and you're an expert so can you can you talk a little bit about

01:28:05.800 what's going on in afghanistan right now and maybe how that might influence the uh election how that

01:28:10.520 will play out here in canada yeah i'm so glad you asked that question it is just uh devastating

01:28:18.440 what is happening right now um on so many levels and and you know i don't i don't i don't know if

01:28:25.640 i even want to talk about the political implications because i i don't think that's the important thing

01:28:29.480 The important thing is that, I mean, I just saw on social media, someone posted a photo of two children of an Afghan interpreter who are sleeping at the airport waiting to be airlifted out.

01:28:43.560 The honour of our country is at stake here.

01:28:46.320 There are people who fought alongside Canada, who stood with Canadian soldiers in their efforts,

01:28:54.120 who in all likelihood are going to get left behind with their families

01:28:58.840 because of a failure to evacuate people.

01:29:04.720 In addition to this, we have been calling for six years.

01:29:07.220 This was the first statement I made as an elected MP in December of 2015.

01:29:11.040 We have been calling for six years for a special program

01:29:13.860 to allow the private sponsorship of vulnerable minority communities in Afghanistan.

01:29:19.120 We've got this very small Sikh and Hindu community left in Afghanistan.

01:29:23.220 Communities here in Canada have stood up and said, we want to provide private sponsorship.

01:29:27.320 It's not a question of government dollars.

01:29:28.420 We want to provide private sponsorship for a few hundred families.

01:29:33.040 And the government has, despite having large representation in caucus from those communities,

01:29:37.980 the government has done nothing.

01:29:39.460 And now, a couple days ago, they come out and say, oh, well, we're going to take 20,000 refugees from Afghanistan.

01:29:46.840 Well, it's too late.

01:29:48.080 Like, you can't just ignore all of this for six years and then say, oh, great, we've come up with a big number that we want to throw at the wall politically, when in actual fact, people are going to get left behind.

01:30:04.760 So it's devastating from a human rights standpoint that very likely these minority communities, as well as anyone who collaborated with Western others, are simply going to be slaughtered by the Taliban.

01:30:17.080 And our policy failure is going to leave behind these women, men and children. 0.98

01:30:23.600 It is so tragic.

01:30:25.900 It is so wrong.

01:30:28.600 And I'm having a hard time thinking about anything else today, to be honest, election aside.

01:30:32.780 I mean, this is this is the honor of our country at stake here. And, you know, I think we need to do so much better.

01:30:41.280 Absolutely. And so many members of our generation, Garnett, you know, went and fought in Afghanistan.

01:30:45.780 That was sort of the defining war of, for me, my early 20s.

01:30:49.640 I mean, so many brave Canadian men and women risked their lives and some lost their lives over there.

01:30:55.080 And I know it must just be devastating for them to watch this total fallout and the Taliban coming off.

01:31:02.740 It's truly awful.

01:31:04.540 It's interesting that you mentioned private refugee sponsorship.

01:31:07.180 I won't get too into the weeds of immigration policy, but that's something that the liberals used to resist.

01:31:12.080 And then they embraced it because it was seen as a really effective, well-run policy.

01:31:17.680 And so I'm a little surprised to hear that you're saying that they've turned away from that.

01:31:21.740 That's just really unfortunate.

01:31:22.580 Just quickly, I don't think they've really embraced it.

01:31:26.420 I mean, what we're hearing from private refugee sponsoring organizations across the board is that there's a piling on of red tape.

01:31:32.120 And it's just it's becoming harder for refugee sponsoring organizations to run as volunteer operations.

01:31:38.560 They're they're being sort of required to have the level of administrative sophistication that that is that is just harder for volunteers to do.

01:31:45.420 And it's not really necessary that the data has been there for a long time that the private sponsorship programs are just, you know,

01:31:50.600 far more effective at engaging and integrating people uh and they don't they don't cost the

01:31:55.320 taxpayer right so if you have people standing up and saying we want to help vulnerable people around

01:31:59.800 the world we will support them in their integration and by the way the data shows they're more likely

01:32:03.640 to be successful in canada if they come into an existing community um you know liberals generally

01:32:08.840 don't believe in that because they're skeptical about the role of community organizations in the

01:32:13.240 private sector and they want to see bigger government um in any event this has been a

01:32:18.040 six-year project people pushing for particular options and support for these afghan minority

01:32:24.280 communities and unfortunately now it's probably too late i'm sorry to hear that and i mean it

01:32:29.160 just makes perfect sense when it comes to private sponsorship because it's like who's going to be

01:32:32.600 more successful in canada someone who comes in lands in an airplane and gets a social worker

01:32:37.080 that they might be able to talk to like once or twice a week versus someone who's welcomed by a

01:32:40.840 community by a church by a charity who's really excited who's done all the legwork to fundraise

01:32:46.040 to bring this person to canada you know they're going to be there every step of the way to explain

01:32:49.880 this is how you get a bank account this is how you sign your kids up for sports this is how you

01:32:54.520 you know just all the basic things how to ride a bus in canada things that a refugee would just 1.00

01:32:59.320 really have no concept of so i'm glad to see the conservatives uh fighting for that it's it's

01:33:03.800 unfortunate that the liberals aren't taking it i'll just ask you one question to bring it back

01:33:07.800 to the to the campaign here what what are the conservatives wanting canadians to know about

01:33:13.320 their party what's what's a one takeaway message you would like to get the canadians to know about

01:33:17.880 what a conservative alternative would be to this true to liberal government yeah so i i mean i look

01:33:24.200 forward to us being able to share lots of specific plans on on policy issues but but if i could try

01:33:29.080 to wrap it together uh in in sort of one concept uh i i think i think we have a government right

01:33:36.040 now that is encouraging people not to think about the future uh that is saying uh don't worry we're

01:33:41.240 going to provide you with a lot of money that is heavily deficit financed in the short term.

01:33:48.600 And Conservatives have a plan that emphasizes securing the future that says we want to pass

01:33:54.280 a better country, a more prosperous, more just and more free country onto our children and

01:34:00.120 grandchildren. And that means taking a hard look at debt and deficit. That means establishing the

01:34:06.840 conditions for protecting our security, recognizing that we can't take our security for granted in

01:34:12.600 the face of various foreign threats. It means we can't take our freedom for granted. All the things

01:34:16.600 we have in Canada, the freedom, the prosperity, the justice we have, those things didn't fall

01:34:21.560 out of the sky. We have them because of hard work and good policy in generations past. And if we

01:34:28.440 step away from the things that have made us successful in the past, we're going to lose

01:34:31.880 the fruits of that success. So we will have a lot to say about the specifics,

01:34:36.280 but in one concept it's about securing the future it's about thinking about the kind of country we

01:34:40.840 pass on to the next generation well that sounds inspiring so i i wish you uh well on the campaign

01:34:46.280 hopefully we'll be able to catch up again garnett jenis the mp for sherwood park thank you so much

01:34:50.600 for joining us thank you so much i look forward to chatting again great well to everyone who's

01:34:56.680 who's stuck with us who's watched this this entire broadcast it's it's really been a pleasure to be

01:35:00.680 able to share the news with you have this conversation break it all down and i just want

01:35:06.040 to show a contrast between what true north does and what what you see in the mainstream media

01:35:11.240 this has become a little bit of a joke and a meme around uh true north because it's so silly but i

01:35:16.600 want to show you a clip of how trudeau treated the cbc in particular but in general the legacy media

01:35:23.720 during the last campaign. So here's that clip.

01:35:43.540 So what you saw there was, what you saw there was Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of the

01:35:48.540 country, jokingly creating a poutine dish and serving it to the CBC, reminding all the press

01:35:54.820 in attendance that the Liberals are always there for the CBC. So this is the kind of chummy

01:35:58.940 relationship that you have. And I mean, if you think about it, during the last campaign,

01:36:02.420 the 2015 campaign, two campaigns ago, the Conservative government was running on a pledge

01:36:10.240 to keep the CBC as a status quo. They weren't even going as far as what Aaron O'Toole is saying

01:36:14.780 today, and I hope he sticks to that pledge, that he will defund the English news section.

01:36:19.320 Trudeau ran on a pledge of increasing the amount of money that CBC gets. Keep in mind, they get

01:36:23.660 $1.2 billion a year. That organization would not exist in its current iteration or any form,

01:36:30.200 perhaps, without all of that government subsidies. And at the same time, you have the CBC giving

01:36:35.960 incredibly favorable news coverage to Trudeau, and Trudeau treating him to what? Buying him lunch

01:36:41.680 on the campaign trail and everyone's laughing and Trudeau's making jokes about that. I mean,

01:36:45.780 how can you really trust the CBC? It's wild. And so I just, I'm going to make a final plea here

01:36:51.780 because if you're watching this far and you're enjoying our coverage, I really urge you to head

01:36:56.060 on over to donate.tnc.news. That's our website. You can go make a donation. Consider it doesn't

01:37:01.740 have to be a lot of money. If you can throw in $10, if you're enjoying this broadcast,

01:37:05.040 so you can pitch in a little more, that would be great too. But the idea that so many Canadians 0.99

01:37:09.600 still turn to the CBC to get news is distressing. And it is my goal. I think it's like my life

01:37:15.600 mission to make Canadians aware that the news that they're getting on the CBC is not accurate.

01:37:21.040 It's not a real picture of what's going on. It's not a real representation. I'll give you another

01:37:25.180 example. This is perhaps the flagship reporter at the CBC these days, Rosemary Barton. And look,

01:37:31.600 I don't have anything against her personally. She seems like she's a nice woman. But the way

01:37:35.520 that she covers politics in her job i mean she doesn't even hide her love and admiration for 0.93

01:37:42.100 trudeau let's play that clip once once i'm done politics i'm done politics uh last book you've

01:37:51.160 read or book you're reading um the just finished uh the um the patch which was uh chris turner's

01:38:01.360 history of uh of the oil patch um but i'm also about to start the new uh ken follett with the

01:38:09.920 third third book that is uh the sequel to um pillars of the earth that's your nerdy side

01:38:16.720 no that's that's my uh no no it's not it's not sci-fi it's it's just a sweeping historical

01:38:24.200 epic i'm sure but i haven't started it yet so oh prime minister you're so nerdy it's so cute

01:38:31.300 Seriously, I mean, it's parody, right?

01:38:33.160 It's like they give poutine, they ask softball questions about what podcasts you're listening to.

01:38:38.240 It's really not news.

01:38:39.700 I mean, Sue Ann?

01:38:40.320 I remember when he was sworn in two years ago.

01:38:43.720 She wore this white outfit, a la Hillary Clinton. 1.00

01:38:47.260 I don't know why I remember that, but it was like the angel has returned to...

01:38:54.460 And Candace, it's not just the CBC, although the CBC is getting a huge whack of funding.

01:39:00.380 But other media have shifted to the left, too.

01:39:03.100 I noticed on, for example, CTV, that there is this affinity, this, you know, the nightly news just absolutely fawns over Pierre Trudeau.

01:39:16.800 Pierre Trudeau.

01:39:18.220 Slip.

01:39:18.700 Yeah, might as well be the same.

01:39:19.840 Freudian slip.

01:39:21.020 Yeah, Justin Trudeau.

01:39:22.400 And, you know, and then the local newscasts in Toronto, for example.

01:39:27.400 I mean, they've all shifted.

01:39:28.940 It's interesting.

01:39:29.920 And, you know, you kind of expect it from the CBC, but then you're right.

01:39:33.560 Like CTV, a lot of people who are sort of proponents of public radio or public broadcasts,

01:39:38.420 and they'll say, look, you guys have the private sector one, that's CTV, and the public sector one, CBC.

01:39:42.500 It's like, well, really, I mean, you know, there are leftists that run both of them.

01:39:46.880 And so part of the problem is that, you know, Canadians aren't getting the other side of the story from either of them, and even global.

01:39:53.460 I mean, there's a story out in Alberta, I don't know if you are following it too much,

01:39:56.580 but the the federal or the provincial government there decided to sort of run run out the uh

01:40:02.980 covet policies so they would no longer have uh lockdowns and masks and stuff and the media just

01:40:08.580 didn't like that at all and so they started really promoting this doctor and he was on all the

01:40:12.980 stations he was on global ctv cbc and then it turns out he was a huge ndp donor and they didn't even

01:40:18.100 bother to check it out and it's like you know they're basically just pushing this like far

01:40:23.220 left vision of the world it's a narrative the going narrative i mean i interviewed a couple

01:40:27.300 of doctors during covid who had suggested certain treatments that probably would have avoided

01:40:36.740 some of the deaths that we saw for example in seniors homes the absolute you know mass death

01:40:43.540 and they were you know sidelined mocked you know called all kinds of names and

01:40:53.620 they're bright doctors one is at Harvard well and that's the thing it's like they

01:40:59.840 have the sort of approved talking points and this is what we're going to talk

01:41:02.480 about I know you did great work throughout the entire pandemic digging

01:41:05.280 into those long-term care facilities and retirement homes but part of my

01:41:09.420 problem, Sue-Ann, is the lack of transparency. Look, if the CBC came out and said, look,

01:41:15.440 as an editorial position, our organization is liberal. We like the liberal worldview. We believe

01:41:21.460 in Justin Trudeau. We're liberals. We're going to endorse him in the campaign. I would be a little

01:41:25.940 bit more okay with that. But my biggest problem is the fact that they pretend to be the sort of

01:41:30.860 arbiters of truth, that they're completely apolitical, they're completely neutral, and this

01:41:35.460 just happens to be their coverage and you can you can find biased news stories on any site i mean

01:41:39.640 i think human journalists are human and humans have their biases so i don't necessarily you know

01:41:45.500 begrudge rosemary barton for being so pro trudeau uh the thing that i do begrudge is that they take

01:41:51.620 1.2 billion dollars from the taxpayer and they're not transparent about it so they pretend that

01:41:56.240 they're out there running this neutral campaign and it's just incredibly frustrating but that's

01:42:00.940 part of the narrative you know they the narrative is there's a real pack of people they ask the

01:42:07.620 same questions and those who don't ask the questions like andrew you know he jumped the

01:42:13.480 gun according to the pack this morning those who don't follow the party lines are they attempt to

01:42:20.760 sideline them so that's why this media is so important why true north is so important well

01:42:26.200 thank you i'll use that to transition my producer will be happy because i think that if you're still

01:42:30.060 watching you should definitely consider donating you know throw in a few dollars whatever you have

01:42:34.640 because it helps us every dollar helps us to you know do more stories break more reports

01:42:40.220 produce more content put on more podcasts more shows more episodes hire great new people and

01:42:46.220 really grow our team it's so exciting to me and I don't want to be one of those people who

01:42:50.300 you know is happy at other people's misfortune because I think it is sad when someone loses

01:42:55.960 their job when someone's profession is in jeopardy but so often you know there's so many reports of

01:43:01.080 newspapers tv stations laying people off and people losing their job in media and you know

01:43:07.000 true north is doing great we're growing and we're appealing to more and more canadians

01:43:11.400 and that is the trend that we're seeing in the states as well where online media and the

01:43:17.000 alternative media are growing and the traditional stations the lake legacy media as you call it

01:43:24.360 are losing readers are losing listeners viewers etc etc well i think part of it too is like a

01:43:32.700 authenticity right it's like it's like because of the internet and what it's enabled us to do like

01:43:38.440 when i was leaving to go to this broadcast my in-laws were like oh what channel are you going

01:43:42.120 to be on because you know i said i'm going to go do my election show oh what channel it's like no

01:43:45.400 we don't do channel you know we're available on youtube and facebook and it's like i i don't know

01:43:50.220 what the viewership numbers were like for CTV or CBC but I know we reach a lot of Canadians I know

01:43:54.840 but by the time these clips are done you know we reach a couple million Canadians every week and so

01:43:59.600 the fact that we're able to do that online without all of the expensive distribution networks like we

01:44:04.320 found a pretty good business model that that tends to work for us and in the U.S. it's like you're

01:44:09.440 seeing that a lot like you know these sort of startups these different groups that you know

01:44:14.240 who they are you know that Pod Save America guys those are liberals right those are Obama people

01:44:18.240 and they're left wing you see the daily wire guys you know okay those guys are conservative uh

01:44:22.800 you know that some of them are pro-trump some of them aren't but you know who you're getting

01:44:26.400 your news from you know where you stand the problem i find is with the inauthentic sort

01:44:31.920 of newscaster thing where they put on this fake voice and they talk down to you and they dumb it

01:44:38.240 down and they give you like these little sound bites it's like that's not really the news like

01:44:42.400 let's have a conversation about it and to me even just this broadcast has been pretty refreshing

01:44:47.040 like having an in-depth conversation and not just you know reading a little sound clip or whatever

01:44:52.080 and go back to uh when anthony was here and he talked to he said trudeau was answered the

01:44:58.480 question about wanting to have the conversation about where he goes next the great reset

01:45:03.040 i thought he sounded like he was on the stage delivering a soliloquy he was very rehearsed

01:45:09.840 very uh i didn't find him natural at all i thought he was doing a very good acting job

01:45:16.920 which he's obviously good at because he was a drama teacher um but i i didn't find him spontaneous

01:45:23.420 in the slightest no i agree like he's not he's not authentic and and to me it's like i don't

01:45:28.700 think he's a good actor because when he's talking i'm like this is so cringe um okay i i this is a

01:45:34.380 terrible test of speaking cringe i know that we wanted to get to this because you were talking

01:45:38.620 about it before the broadcast, I was too, this ad that seems to have gone viral for

01:45:42.620 the conservatives. So this is, let's play the ad and we can break it all down. So this

01:45:46.300 is a conservative ad that they released, you know, in the wake of the campaign here, and

01:45:50.860 it really created a stir on social media. So let's play this conservative ad.

01:45:58.180 Here we go again.

01:45:59.600 Daddy will get you a golden goose as soon as we get home.

01:46:01.680 No, I want one of those!

01:46:03.560 I want a party with roomfuls of laughter

01:46:09.080 10,000 tons of ice cream

01:46:12.100 I want the works, I want the whole works

01:46:21.340 Presents and prizes and sweets and surprises

01:46:23.920 Of all shapes and sizes and now

01:46:26.500 Don't care how I want a majority

01:46:33.560 All right. I don't know what to say. What's your take on that?

01:46:42.500 Well, I thought initially it was cringeworthy when I first saw it yesterday. And of course,

01:46:48.500 all the leftists were wringing their hands in despair. The progressives were wringing their

01:46:56.000 hands in despair because they said it was feminizing the prime minister and it's an

01:47:01.360 attack on females i wouldn't go that far i just found it a little puerile but you know it's

01:47:08.220 memorable let's put it that way you look at it and you will remember it it gets stuck in your

01:47:13.240 head right that's why i always think like i know i saw the reaction and there were a lot of like

01:47:17.480 high profile conservatives that were like slamming it which is you almost don't really get that very

01:47:22.380 often in canada like because of our parliamentary system like you usually especially in election the

01:47:27.480 MPs will do what the leader says. You had MPs, you had former Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall,

01:47:35.480 you know, dissing it. But look, I think it does sort of what it's intended to do, which it gets

01:47:41.400 people talking about the Conservatives. And, you know, part of the problem that Aaron O'Toole has

01:47:45.880 is he's sort of failing to break through and create a big name for himself. A lot of people

01:47:50.360 still don't really know who he is or not familiar. And this is something it's like, how many views

01:47:54.720 that got how many news stories are there how many you know television stations are playing it in

01:47:59.200 the nightly news and i know we've been hard on the legacy media and i wish that their numbers were

01:48:03.280 smaller but the reality is a lot of people still do get their news from the legacy media so the

01:48:07.600 fact that they're getting all of this free advertising i think it might be one of those

01:48:11.440 like no publicity is bad publicity kind of thing yeah like it's very like internet native right

01:48:17.280 it's like this like weird old video that has like trudeau's face and then the the most awkward part

01:48:22.800 is like the very end where it's like don't care how i want it and then it says like conservative

01:48:27.680 or it says majority election or whatever and it's like well it puts it down to the bare facts and i

01:48:32.480 mean the bear his motives so yeah it's it is memorable and in a way having now watched it

01:48:40.880 again a couple of times um it portrays him as frankly the narcissist and the child childish 0.90

01:48:52.160 narcissist that he is. I mean, if you want to take read between the lines, there's a lot going on 0.63

01:48:57.760 there. Yeah. And that's why in some ways on like a weird meta level, it works. Let's bring Andrew

01:49:02.740 Lawton on this. I know he had his comments and he had his thoughts on it. Andrew, what do you think

01:49:06.900 about this? You guys are going soft. This was an absolutely terrible ad. I think it's the exception

01:49:12.600 to the all publicity is good publicity rule. But here's where I disagree with the media reaction

01:49:18.560 on this why does it have to be sexist why can't it just be a bad commercial because at first i'm

01:49:24.480 like oh yeah this is hokey and cringeworthy and then it's like oh well it's actually you know it

01:49:28.640 says that you know the conservatives are like whiny little girls and girls are bad i was like 0.95

01:49:32.100 it's just a it's just a dumb thing but i was hoping aaron o'toole would lean into it i i had 0.96

01:49:37.720 sent a message to a producer phil this morning i said you know what i'm really hoping that aaron 0.54

01:49:42.900 o'toole will do the wonka entrance to his press conference and just you know limp out and then

01:49:47.740 flip into like the somersaults and the hop up but alas it was no it was not to be

01:49:52.140 because it's a liberal hack machine but the top story wasn't about trudeau calling an election

01:50:17.720 It was about this ad and how horrible it was. And it like just really, you know, triggered the media, the fact that they kind of goes back to our ongoing criticism of all of them that instead of writing about the topics that matter to Canadians, they're obsessed with process, they're obsessed with criticizing conservatives for silly things, and they won't focus on the things that actually matter to Canadians. And I thought that this story just sort of summed it all up.

01:50:39.940 Yeah, and one thing I will say on this is that whatever I think of the ad, and it may have missed the mark on this, the media is never, ever the target audience for these sorts of things.

01:50:52.280 You know, there have been a lot of situations where, not just with Aaron O'Toole, but with other leaders, provincial, federal, different parties in the past, where the media just completely loses their minds, but it was not meant to be for them, and them not getting it kind of proves the point of it.

01:51:08.920 And like I said, I don't know if this is one of those cases for sure, but there have been a lot of those.

01:51:14.860 I mean, one notable example was when Aaron O'Toole was apparently a dirty misogynist because his wife gave him a beer when he got home from a run.

01:51:22.360 And, you know, it's like no one real cares about that. 0.85

01:51:26.140 No one real had a problem with that.

01:51:28.800 So I guess that's the one saving grace is just because the media does decide to push something into trend does not mean that average Canadians are taking issue with it in the same way.

01:51:38.920 it was the same shameless double standard of the media because remember it's not too long ago that

01:51:44.280 the unifor ad came out with the truck falling apart and criticizing erin o'toole and we didn't

01:51:50.680 hear the same outcry from the legacy media about that did we yeah no i think we have that clip

01:51:57.080 actually if we can throw to that because it was just such a silly concept i i felt like they got

01:52:01.960 it all wrong and it really illuminates so much that's wrong with the media if we have that clip

01:52:06.200 But they're reinforcing the same stereotype about the conservatives.

01:52:10.120 That's what they were trying to do.

01:52:11.160 Yeah, that's what they were trying to do, absolutely.

01:52:12.900 Do we have the clip?

01:52:22.640 Is there audio on that?

01:52:24.760 Engineered by big corporations to leave us behind.

01:52:28.920 Driven to cut health care and public services, just like Jason Kenney.

01:52:33.420 Another out-of-touch politician at a price we can't afford.

01:52:38.720 Meet the 2021 O'Toole.

01:52:41.060 New name, same old conservative.

01:52:44.580 And that spoke entirely to the stereotypes that these brazen people,

01:52:51.900 entitled unions, try to portray about the conservatives,

01:52:55.600 that they're inhumane, they're going to cut all these things.

01:52:59.360 You know, when the point is, if there's not enough money,

01:53:02.820 If there's a deficit, you can't fund all these things in perpetuity.

01:53:08.180 Well, I thought it was kind of interesting because I was talking earlier in the program how I thought that Aaron O'Toole has shown incredible discipline throughout this campaign so far.

01:53:15.120 Because one of the sort of like things that conservatives are good at, and I talked about how Aaron O'Toole is running as a fiscal conservative and he's not touching the social issues and he's not going into the culture war stuff.

01:53:25.340 And he's doing a pretty good job focusing on what his strengths are.

01:53:28.240 But one of the problems that conservatives have with running as fiscal conservatives is that it tees them up for the easy critique that they're going to cut health care, that like anytime you have a fiscal conservative, that means that they're not going to be able to overspend and blow the budget the way that left wing politicians do, which equates to cuts to health care.

01:53:46.140 And the liberals are really good at sort of that wedge issue and that critique.

01:53:50.260 And it's almost like Unifor was expecting Aaron O'Toole to say, I'll balance the budget in a year or I'll balance the budget in two years.

01:53:56.300 And so they had this whole thing, oh, he's going to cut health care.

01:53:59.040 And then Aaron O'Toole didn't do that.

01:54:00.820 He, pardon me, he came up and said, you know, it's going to take a long time.

01:54:05.040 Trudeau really ramped this thing up and we're in a pandemic and it's going to take a while.

01:54:09.240 So I feel like that ad just didn't work because that's not what Aaron O'Toole was talking about.

01:54:12.960 It wasn't correct.

01:54:13.780 know we had a true north fact checker go through it all and it was like barely anything in that ad

01:54:18.740 is true but i just i just don't feel and and it's sort of funny because there's this culture war

01:54:22.900 issue that is going on about pickup trucks because it's sort of left-wing elite now are saying let's

01:54:27.460 ban pickup trucks they don't like you know well they don't need them and it's like of course they

01:54:31.300 had to show a pickup truck as aaron it is so stereotypical of you know these rural conservatives

01:54:38.100 driving an old dusty pickup truck through the prairies and they're not sophisticated they

01:54:46.240 don't drink the great latest wine i mean it's just so old school it makes me crazy when i see

01:54:52.300 brought to you by canada's largest union of journalists i know we've written about it i've

01:54:59.200 talked about it on my show but i think that point bears repeating absolutely andrew and it's so

01:55:04.040 bizarre to me i mean we're talking about how the uh cbc gives the liberals this like very easy

01:55:10.360 softball questions it's not even softball it's like oh justin what do you want to be when you

01:55:14.520 grow up but it's like well it looks to you yeah keep in mind that the largest journalist union is

01:55:24.920 running ads against aaron in some ways i wish aaron would smack back a little i wish he would like

01:55:29.800 channel his inner ronda santis or chris christie and just smack down some of these journalists

01:55:34.840 when they ask bad questions it's like your union is running an attack ad against me in the campaign

01:55:40.600 like you i can't trust you you can't trust these people to ask fair questions to report in an

01:55:46.200 honest way we know what their politics are and again that's the point i'll reiterate is that

01:55:50.680 at true north you know where we stand you know what our world view is you know we run

01:55:54.520 fact-based news reports but when it comes to the editorial when it comes to

01:55:58.840 me and andrew and sue annia we're going to be talking about

01:56:01.960 our our values and our vision of the world and that tends to be more

01:56:04.920 conservative but we're not going to you know carry

01:56:07.960 water for politicians we're independent and you know where we stand the problem

01:56:11.640 is that so many of these uniform journalists so many of these cbc

01:56:13.960 journalists you don't know where they stand and

01:56:16.120 unfortunately canadians aren't really aware of how biased and how

01:56:20.040 you know the the structures are are stacked against them so again if you're

01:56:23.240 watching and you feel inclined you want to support true north i really really encourage you to do it

01:56:27.640 it's it's it's so important in in this country in this time and i know there's sort of a cliche that

01:56:32.520 every election is the most important election but you know we're here in in the in the at the end

01:56:37.400 of the pandemic we have a trudeau government that's just racked up an insane amount of debt

01:56:41.480 that has no vision for the country going in a wrong direction and it's an important election

01:56:46.120 and i think that canadians deserve coverage in-depth coverage showing them the other side

01:56:50.200 of the story breaking reports telling stories that aren't told having analysis that you won't

01:56:54.760 find on other channels and that's what you get in true north and so if you can and if you're able

01:56:59.240 donate.tnc.news go over there right now consider making any any donation you can seriously ten

01:57:04.760 dollars is is amazing and we're happy for every dollar we get in my 20 31 years covering politics

01:57:11.640 and 20 full-time voters are very forgetful they forget very quickly what happened two months ago

01:57:21.420 three months ago but let's not forget that Justin Trudeau has been in a huge embarrassment on the

01:57:27.400 world stage so this sort of dapper charming guy who was supposed to be don't forget that he was

01:57:34.400 dressing in Indian costumes when he was in India I don't forget these things and you know is this

01:57:40.920 the kind of person that we want going you know and the legacy media will choose to forget that

01:57:47.220 sort of stuff not cover it not remind voters and that's a sad thing it's funny because when that

01:57:53.640 happened when that scandal dropped uh it was so shocking because it was so sort of counter to the

01:57:58.800 Trudeau that we see and we talk about him as being a drama teacher and an actor but you know he was

01:58:03.820 someone who really talked a good game condemning racists and being open-minded and saying diversity

01:58:08.080 over and over again and then he did something that was i i don't know i wouldn't call it racist but

01:58:12.980 it was pretty borderline like it was showed a very poor judgment you sort of paint your skin

01:58:17.600 yeah the blackface and then posing on the steps of the taj mahal all dressed the whole family 0.99

01:58:23.600 dressed in indian outfits i was just very silly it was stupid it does show 0.99

01:58:29.600 one of his defenses was that he's always just gotten a little carried away with costumes like 0.98

01:58:36.860 that was that's just his thing he just does costumes with gusto and that's supposed to give

01:58:42.560 us like what comfort he's the leader of our country like it's okay guys just like stressing

01:58:47.900 up that's just his thing like it's it's yeah it's certainly very silly well i i was able to catch up

01:58:55.000 with um one more mp that i want to show you the interview with uh tom kamek out in calgary and we

01:59:01.200 had a great conversation here's that clip

01:59:02.960 Why are we having this election, first things first?

01:59:21.740 Because the prime minister wants a majority government and he doesn't want to have to

01:59:25.520 negotiate with any opposition party or anybody who has any semblance of another opinion,

01:59:32.200 idea in their head, he wants full and complete control of Parliament, which is what we come

01:59:37.220 to expect from him.

01:59:39.020 Okay, so Trudeau has been Prime Minister now for what, five years?

01:59:44.700 Do you think that he in any way deserves a majority?

01:59:48.020 The reason that he's putting this test to Canadians is because he clearly believes that

01:59:51.600 he deserves a majority government.

01:59:54.620 Do you think he deserves that?

01:59:55.900 Well, I don't think he deserves it, but I also don't think he deserved a second chance

02:00:00.240 in 2019 and I don't think you deserve the first chance back in 2015 either but every election is

02:00:06.360 about earning the trust of Canadians and earning the right to govern and he hasn't earned that

02:00:11.140 right to govern this so far in 2019 uh citizens in Canada were real clear electors were really

02:00:17.460 clear they wanted to punish the liberal government and so they punished them they took away the

02:00:21.820 majority government said to him and to his uh key cabinet ministers you're going to have to

02:00:26.680 negotiate with opposition parties and that hasn't been the case for the past two years. He's held

02:00:31.560 parliament hostage, he tried to shut us down for extended periods of time, he's you know treated

02:00:37.240 opposition parties more so as an audience rather than you know equal participants in the democratic

02:00:42.920 process so absolutely he doesn't deserve it especially speaking as a westerner he does not

02:00:47.320 deserve another chance. I can't afford another four years of Justin Trudeau. Well let's pick

02:00:52.360 up on that you said speaking as a westerner so how will western values play out i i know

02:00:57.720 there's been a bit of a surge basically since trudeau has been in office but uh we've heard

02:01:02.280 a lot about this sort of grumbling of western alienation um there's some talk of western

02:01:07.400 separatism that's always a movement that that uh we're seeing on the fringes and now it's starting

02:01:11.960 to pick up a bit of steam so how will sort of western concerns and values play out in this

02:01:17.480 campaign well like i always make the distinction there's like the west and there's like prairie

02:01:22.360 canadians those of us on the east side of what many derogatorily call you know flyover country

02:01:28.200 and i don't think of this as flyover country this alberta where i'm from is the greatest province

02:01:33.720 in canada i'm sorry every other province is just the truth uh this is the greatest place to earn

02:01:38.440 a living to raise a family and to have opportunities you'll find nowhere else uh and that's why it

02:01:43.240 attracts so many canadians from all across the country to come here to work and to raise a family

02:01:48.760 um and what's different about western canada is we have a long history of changing you know the

02:01:53.720 political makeup makeup of canada the reform party started out here the social credit party started

02:01:58.760 out here the populist movement started out here the progressive movement started out here we have

02:02:03.640 a long history of changing how canada works and also bringing new ideas to the front ideas like

02:02:09.640 you know a triple e senate ideas like reforming the house of commons the way you know members

02:02:15.080 of parliament do their work and in this election we saw it you know like my leader aaron o'toole

02:02:20.040 the very first announcement he did is like the touchiest of all issues which is equalization

02:02:25.320 he took my private members bill and made it one of the central pieces of our campaign in the

02:02:29.960 prederick provinces we're going to completely get rid of a lot of the rules are really hurting

02:02:34.200 alberta and saskatchewan and giving us back the full equalization rebate because when our economies

02:02:38.920 are hurting we can't contribute as much to the public treasury in personal income taxes and in

02:02:43.800 other income taxes uh we should see a huge rebate on the huge contributions that we've made to

02:02:49.320 confederation it's only fair and that's just the kind of the opening salvo as i call it of all the

02:02:54.600 fixes we're going to bring to confederation on behalf of prairie canadians specifically that's

02:02:59.880 great i'm glad you're talking a little bit about policy because sometimes during elections we only

02:03:04.040 talk about strategy we only talk about the horse race and we never really get an opportunity to

02:03:08.120 talk about the policy and how a conservative government would be different um than a liberal

02:03:13.000 government so you touched a little bit on it but maybe you could help uh explain to our viewers

02:03:17.000 explain to the audience how a conservative government would be different than the liberal

02:03:21.880 government how would you do things differently what would canada look like um you know in five

02:03:26.040 years with a conservative government in place so this is just you know day one essentially or like

02:03:32.040 three quarters of day one of what the election campaign will be like so we've already put out

02:03:36.920 our innovation policy of what we think will be best set for small and medium enterprise to

02:03:42.360 innovate in canada keep their patents here commercialized in canada i saw some of that in

02:03:47.320 this week and then how would we govern i mean respecting the traditions respecting parliament

02:03:52.600 as an institution that makes decisions government is supposed to go there and check with the people's

02:03:57.800 representatives to double check with them this is what you want to do uh this is the direction

02:04:02.040 we like to go in uh you know we can tinker with some of the ideas that a government proposes but

02:04:07.160 generally uh parliament is there to give its final stamp of approval whereas with the liberal

02:04:12.200 government uh parliament has just been a stamp of approval there's no consideration no debate

02:04:16.440 debate doesn't matter uh rushing things through as fast as possible we've said for example that

02:04:20.680 we'll balance the budget over the next 10 years i have a lot of supporters and i'm one of those i

02:04:26.040 i consider myself a fiscal conservative through and through i'd love to be able to balance the

02:04:31.000 budget faster but what we're facing here and what the parliamentary budget officer has said

02:04:35.480 at the present pace of how the liberals are spending uh we won't have a balanced budget

02:04:39.640 till 2070. now that's unacceptable uh you can't uh have you know future taxpayers bearing the

02:04:46.440 burden of services that they haven't consumed that they haven't used so we you know introduce

02:04:51.080 we'll introduce a few more ideas as we go now we're going to manage the public finances in

02:04:55.880 terms of how we spend and where we spend those monies you know finding ways to save and economize

02:05:01.880 to use you know that favored uk tory term economize wherever we can in the provision of

02:05:07.000 public services because people have an expectation they pay taxes and there's a public service that's

02:05:11.560 supposed to come to them uh on the opposite end what they don't want to see is things like you

02:05:16.120 know the wheat charity scandal they don't want to see hundreds of millions of dollars of contracts

02:05:20.120 going to great constituents of the finance minister just because uh they feel that's the

02:05:25.720 best way to do things uh they want you know it's almost like a fee-for-service concept so we'll take

02:05:30.680 10 years to make sure we balance the budget in a way where we're not chopping away at services that

02:05:36.520 canadians have come to expect and to rely on and also to draw down as quickly as possible a lot of

02:05:42.600 this emergency spending that was approved because the vast majority of the spending that's been

02:05:46.840 approved so far has been spent to help canadians during the pandemic and i don't think anybody

02:05:51.400 complaints about it but between i think the last numbers i saw 100 to 125 billion dollars

02:05:57.240 even uh third party reviewers have said have nothing to do with pandemic spending there's

02:06:02.120 just additional spending the government has decided to do so that's kind of what the policy

02:06:06.200 end of what we're interested in doing we have some ideas on innovation um i have some ideas

02:06:10.840 i'm hoping that will be you know center stage in in our policy platform specifically on bereavement

02:06:17.480 leave that i've been working on for the last few months so i think what they'll see from us is both

02:06:23.160 a quite a fiscally conservative platform that will speak to canadians want for you know a balanced

02:06:28.920 budget which has been the accepted political concept of the last decade since the reform party

02:06:34.520 brought it to the very front of public policy debates in canada and the second part is a kind

02:06:39.000 of a compassionate conservatism looking after people in a way that's you know reasonable but

02:06:45.480 doesn't impose on future taxpayers an enormous cost that they're simply supposed to accept and

02:06:50.920 bear uh there has to be a balance between future taxpayers and present needs and wants and that's

02:06:56.600 what we're going to be proposing as we go forward it's going to be a battle of ideas i always tell

02:07:00.760 people uh that it's not about the personalities you may like or you may dislike justin trudeau

02:07:06.200 and the other liberals but it's a battle of ideas that's what every single election is supposed to

02:07:11.000 be about who has the better ideas who has the better vision we're the only party that wants

02:07:15.720 to secure the future of canadians secure their jobs secure the economy um and if a voter wants

02:07:21.880 one of the other options there's lots of other options for maximum spending maximum taxation

02:07:27.800 and you know the the status kind of state of things as they are right now they want more of

02:07:33.000 what's been done during pandemic they got lots of options there if they want a party that's

02:07:37.400 entirely focused on jobs the economy and securing our future there's only the conservative party of

02:07:42.200 canada well let's quit the pitch i will leave it at that because i don't think uh there's anything

02:07:46.600 else that we could add but thank you so much for your time tom and i look forward to seeing

02:07:50.120 you uh throughout the campaign conservative mp tom kmich thank you that was tom that was

02:08:07.400 media so thanks to him for coming on the show had a few questions i wanted to get to just as we wind

02:08:13.320 down our show here and put them to the whole team the first one a few people have asked this but

02:08:19.080 But we're attributing it to the one who asked it best, Paula in Saskatoon, who says the Conservatives booted social conservative Pierre Lemieux and UConn candidate Jonas Smith, who opposed mandatory vaccines as a lifelong Conservative Party of Canada supporter.

02:08:36.100 I'm very disappointed by the CPC and Aaron O'Toole.

02:08:39.540 The question is, can the Conservatives motivate the base?

02:08:43.200 This is, I'm just going to say up front, a big question and one that I think certainly will colour our coverage.

02:08:49.080 in the course of the campaign, because a lot of people have put very similar concerns.

02:08:53.800 Candace, in the studio, what do you think of this?

02:08:56.340 Well, Andrew, you were the one, first, you know, credit where credit is due.

02:08:59.220 You broke that story about Pierre Lemieux, and you obviously have your finger on the pulse of this issue.

02:09:04.240 And so, for sure, it's depressing.

02:09:06.220 I mean, the idea that the Conservatives are a big tent party, and that was sort of part of what Aaron O'Toole promised.

02:09:12.820 He tells us that he's true blue.

02:09:14.180 I think he has an explanation that is owed to the base, because as you were mentioning in your interview that you did earlier with the MP, you know, the idea is that the Conservative Party is different from the other party.

02:09:27.900 So we already have three left wing parties. We already have three parties that basically have the same view when it comes to almost everything.

02:09:34.320 When it comes to abortion, when it comes to immigration, when it comes to the economy, debt, deficit, there's so many things that are already the same about all those parties.

02:09:43.380 And the beauty of the conservative party and the movement is that there is more room for actual, you know, exchange of ideas and discourse.

02:09:54.720 And that's what I love about conservatism is that you don't always have to have the same views as the people on your side.

02:10:00.680 I mean, conservatism is made up of classical liberals, of libertarians, of social conservatives, of free market people.

02:10:07.880 I mean, there's so many different types of conservative.

02:10:09.880 You could be someone that really stresses order and tradition.

02:10:12.860 You can be a conservative that really believes in freedom and the rights and freedoms of Canadians.

02:10:18.100 And so I like a big tent.

02:10:20.200 I like the idea that there is room for different views and different ideas.

02:10:24.300 And I think Erin O'Toole certainly owes an explanation.

02:10:27.520 How about you, Sue Ann?

02:10:28.560 Well, I think one thing I found covering politics over the years is the conservatives are not good at keeping their internal squabbles internal.

02:10:36.900 Liberals are adept at it.

02:10:38.260 They, you know, you don't hear anything as much as they, you know, have issues, whether it be Ontario or federally, they keep it all in under their tent.

02:10:48.500 Or you're out of the party, right?

02:10:49.760 Like, like, yeah, Jody Wilson-Raybould is just out, right?

02:10:53.000 Yeah. But the, you know, the conservatives, they're all this sort of out there.

02:11:00.160 I agree with you. It's a big tent and they got to keep it all together.

02:11:04.540 And that's the challenge of any leader.

02:11:07.560 And I was disappointed personally as well that this happened.

02:11:12.200 Certainly.

02:11:12.640 What about you, Andrew?

02:11:14.100 Yeah, it's tough because this was one of the big pitches that Aaron O'Toole made during the leadership to social conservatives.

02:11:21.320 And we talked about this a little bit earlier with Kathy Wagenthal.

02:11:23.780 It was, I'm not one of you, but I believe you have a place in the party.

02:11:27.320 And that was a big contrast between Aaron O'Toole and Peter McKay, who had famously called social conservatives the stinking albatross hanging around the neck of the 2019 conservative campaign.

02:11:38.740 So when you had a series of ejections, you had Derek Sloan, you had Pierre Lemieux, you had a couple of others in there where people were thinking, whoa, hang on, this isn't what we thought was going to happen.

02:11:51.060 And it does threaten that big tent issue that the party has always tried to claim.

02:11:57.600 And I think that's going to be a big thing going forward because you can never I mean, the line, it's not mine.

02:12:03.320 It actually came from from Mark Stein, but I think it bears quoting here is that it's a lot easier for the base to get itself a new leader than for a leader to get itself a new base.

02:12:11.580 And that's a big issue that conservative leaders in general, I think, need to remember.

02:12:17.480 I also wanted to go to another question.

02:12:20.160 Just to remind you one other thing. It's that, you know, when it comes to conservatives, Aaron O'Toole is basically betting this entire election on the idea that he can win on just fiscal issues, economic issues. And I've given him credit throughout the show. I think that he's been very disciplined and very good.

02:12:36.960 And it kind of goes there. There's sort of a conventional wisdom. And I think it really derives from the media that if conservatives just run on fiscal issues, if they ditch the divisive social issues, if they don't go into the Trump style culture wars, if they just focus on their strength, which is fiscal issues, then they'll be accepted and then they'll be won over and Canadians will accept them.

02:12:58.800 Canadians aren't willing to accept sort of right-wing values. And I think that this election

02:13:02.980 is a test of that theory, because we've heard it so much. We heard it a lot after Andrew Scheer

02:13:08.560 was unsuccessful in removing Prime Minister Trudeau. And I think that Erin O'Toole is

02:13:15.960 basically just doing this experiment, and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Is that

02:13:20.240 theory true? That if the Conservatives just simply run on the sort of free market, libertarian

02:13:25.560 economic ideas and don't touch the social stuff if they'll be able to win over Canadians. And I'm

02:13:30.680 truly interested to see how this turns out because I think O'Toole, like I said before, is doing a

02:13:35.400 pretty decent job of just being disciplined and sticking to that message. Yeah, the old James

02:13:40.160 Carville line, it's the economy stupid. And I guess my theory would be, and we can certainly 0.99

02:13:45.460 discuss this when we look back from election night, my theory is that there are a lot of

02:13:49.560 questions that Canadian voters have answers to that aren't going to be answered by a very narrow

02:13:54.420 platform dealing just with the economy, especially when you talk to new Canadians who have a number

02:13:59.160 of issues that they would not, not issues, but a number of questions, a number of things about

02:14:04.140 which they care that go beyond, you know, this tax rate and this tax credit. And certainly that's

02:14:09.560 something we'll see unfold. And kind of a related question, because I think the fracturing of the

02:14:14.280 Conservative Party into these different groups and parties is I think part of this idea of the

02:14:20.760 big tent eroding slightly. Derek in Toronto says, do smaller parties like the PPC and the Maverick

02:14:26.980 Party have a chance to pick up a few seats this election? I'm not going to answer that directly,

02:14:31.940 Derek, because we did have some of that discussion with Hamish Marshall, and it's come up earlier.

02:14:36.340 But I am going to say that I think they have a place in the discussion. I think they have a place

02:14:40.620 in the conservative movement, because anytime someone leaves an established party that's been

02:14:46.080 around effectively since Confederation, albeit through iterations, it's because there's something

02:14:50.760 in that party that they feel is not speaking to their needs. And you can say, oh, it's petty or

02:14:56.160 it's based on narcissism and all of these things that people say about the Mavericks and the PPC

02:15:01.840 and all of that. But these are still real issues that a conservative party needs to address. And

02:15:06.880 I know that when that initial split happened between the CPC and the PPC back just before

02:15:13.700 the 2019 election, a lot of the people who had been involved in the Reform PC merger,

02:15:20.080 the Alliance PC merger, were the most annoyed because they saw how difficult it was to unite

02:15:25.080 the right at that time. So I think there are concerns that need to be heard, but I'll throw

02:15:29.900 it to you both back in the studio. I'll just say I don't think that the big issue is whether or not

02:15:35.220 these parties will be able to win seats. I think the bigger issue is how many seats will spoil for

02:15:40.180 the Conservatives, because that's far more likely that PPCs will pick up 1,500 votes and that'll be

02:15:45.360 the difference between a Conservative and a Liberal. And it does sort of teach Conservative

02:15:49.780 leaders a lesson about this is what happens when you neglect the base, when you ignore the base,

02:15:55.040 when you push out. Someone like Maxime Bernier, who, let's all remember, he got 49% of the vote

02:16:01.240 in the leadership election to replace Stephen Harper as leader. He was very, very close to

02:16:07.320 winning. And if it was a differently organized system, he probably would have been leader of

02:16:11.100 that party and done things very differently. So there are consequences to pushing out popular

02:16:15.240 candidates that articulate a different style of conservatism. And like I said before, you know,

02:16:20.500 that the beauty of conservatism is that there are these different planks, and there's different

02:16:25.420 ways of looking at the world through conservative lens, and they keep it all together. I mean,

02:16:30.200 we're talking about small parties that aren't really going to win a lot of seats. Look at the

02:16:34.580 left. Look at how split and divided the left is. And imagine if they were as united as the

02:16:39.860 Democrats are in the US. I mean, they would win probably every election and there would have to

02:16:45.040 be a major reshuffle in the way that Canadian politics were done if the NDP, Green and Liberals

02:16:50.720 were all combined. So there's much more vote splitting that happens on the left than on the

02:16:55.220 right. But I think it's certainly interesting to watch and it will be a factor in this election.

02:16:59.340 And what do you think, Sue Ann?

02:17:00.320 I think, you know, take a look at Doug Ford in Ontario.

02:17:05.360 He's a populist leader, even more so his brother as mayor of Toronto.

02:17:09.900 And I think the split is partly because the loss of connection with the grassroots

02:17:16.820 and with the people who matter, who vote,

02:17:20.920 and are very much affected by what's happened with the pandemic or the economy.

02:17:25.240 I think there is a danger in focusing just on the economy and numbers, because really, a budget speaks to where you're going to spend your money.

02:17:36.580 Where are you going to, and the questions are going to come up.

02:17:40.080 Are you going to spend money on bringing more refugees to Canada?

02:17:44.220 What do you think of the refugee policy, for example?

02:17:47.340 I mean, all these things are spilling over, spill over into policy issues.

02:17:53.520 The budget merely determines what your priorities are.

02:17:58.720 But getting back to the splintering of the parties,

02:18:03.020 I think CPC has to be very aware, and I agree with you about splitting the vote.

02:18:08.520 That's a real concern.

02:18:09.740 But they have to be very aware that they can't lose touch with the base, with the grassroots.

02:18:18.200 Absolutely, and when they do, there are consequences.

02:18:20.800 And it's really interesting to see how that plays out, because I think you're right, when it comes to fiscal issues, you know, it doesn't really tell us about your character, doesn't really tell us about your values, about what your priorities are. And, you know, we got to get to know you a little bit more as a leader of the Conservative Party in order to sort of entrust you. And I think that's a better strategy in terms of growing the party base.

02:18:45.080 But again, I think that O'Toole, you know, we'll see how the strategy plays out.

02:18:49.860 And I think that he does have a vision, he has a strategy, and I certainly give him credit for that.

02:18:55.780 Well, folks, thank you so much for tuning into this broadcast.

02:18:59.160 I know it hasn't been perfect, it hasn't been seamless, but, you know, this is our first time doing something like this in a studio.

02:19:06.000 And given how we just found out that there was an election today, we didn't have a lot of time to put it all together.

02:19:11.920 But I really want to give my thanks to the people who are here behind the scenes.

02:19:17.340 So I'm going to give a little shout out to Phil, our executive producer, Harrison, our intern, who's doing a great job, and Chris, who's our in-studio technical expert here.

02:19:26.540 You guys have been tremendous, and I truly thank you for sticking through with us and doing a great job.

02:19:33.240 So thank you.

02:19:33.920 And to the audience at home, this is the kind of thing that we want to be able to bring you more and more throughout the campaign.

02:19:39.620 our next event which is planned just like this we're going to be at a studio similar to this

02:19:44.520 I think we're probably going to end up having more of it in studio so make sure we have Andrew

02:19:48.900 Lawton here make sure we have Hamish here in person and have a really in-depth discussion

02:19:53.280 we're going to do it on the night of the English debate which I believe is is it September 8th

02:19:58.420 or September 9th September 9th and we will be back in the studio so I hope that you'll be able

02:20:03.920 to join us if you've enjoyed this podcast this podcast and this product again I urge you to head

02:20:08.040 over to donate.tnc.news, consider making a small donation. It really helps us out. And, you know,

02:20:14.620 we have a big ambitious goal for this campaign. I truly think this is a huge opportunity for us

02:20:19.420 at True North. You know, we've talked a lot about the politicians and what's at play for them and,

02:20:23.720 you know, what's going to happen to our country. But I think a lot of what's going to happen to

02:20:27.320 our country is the future of the media and watching over the last five years what's happened

02:20:31.480 to this media, how they've all fallen over for Justin Trudeau, how they've gone hat in hand

02:20:36.040 asking for bailouts, how they suck up to him and how they condemn us and treat us like we're an

02:20:42.080 opposition party. Look at the way that Andrew Coyne was tweeting about Andrew Lawton, like how

02:20:46.760 dare he get a question in. It's like, hi, we're journalists too. And we actually went to court

02:20:51.400 during the last campaign, election campaign to prove that. And a federal judge ruled in favor

02:20:56.660 of True North saying you're journalists and you are able to report. We're willing to go to any

02:21:01.080 ends. And I think it's so important for Canada as a country, you know, forget about True North and

02:21:05.420 us and what we're doing, but for Canada as a country to have places where you can go and get

02:21:09.460 the honest truth and hear people speaking honestly and not, you know, sound clips and talking points

02:21:15.860 and just the same stuff that we're just so used to seeing in legacy media. So if you're on board

02:21:21.820 with our mission and you want to be a part of it, head on over to donate.tnc.news and be a part of

02:21:27.280 our campaign, be a part of our movement. It's really, really exciting. The campaign is going

02:21:31.760 to be a great opportunity for us to reach

02:21:33.520 more and more Canadians. We're reaching

02:21:35.600 millions of Canadians every single week

02:21:37.740 and we want to reach even more. So if you can

02:21:39.620 help us with our mission, please do. Thank you

02:21:41.640 so much for tuning in. It's been so much fun.

02:21:44.020 Sue Ann, thank you for having us

02:21:46.420 and being here the whole

02:21:47.720 night and we're going to definitely have you back

02:21:49.560 on election night if you're around and at the

02:21:51.660 debate. That would be great to have you. So thank

02:21:53.720 you for coming out and thank you to the viewer. Thank

02:21:55.700 you so much. Have a wonderful evening. God

02:21:57.600 bless. We'll see you again soon.

Juno News - August 16, 2021

True North Election Kick-off Show

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript