Juno News - March 25, 2019


True North Field Report： LIVE from the Manning Networking Conference 2019

Topics
pandering tax policy and conservatism
Hosted by
Andrew Lutton
Guests
Anthony Fury
Mentioned
Andrew Scheer Doug Ford Anthony Thierry Tom Mulcair Justin Trudeau Stephen Harper Andrew Lawton Ronald Reagan Jason Kenney Harper Majority Dalton McGinty John Brennan Barack Obama Donald Trump Dante Wright Joe Oliver
What's next for #Lavscam？ Omar Khadr walks free as a multi-millionaire

Episode Stats


Length

14 minutes

Words per minute

218.4

Word count

3,106

Sentence count

256

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Join Andrew Lawton and Anthony Fury as they sit down outside the Manning Centre Conference to talk all things Tory leadership. Doug Ford, Andrew Scheer, Justin Trudeau, and the rest of the Tory leadership field field of candidates.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Welcome everyone, Andrew Lawton here from True North, joined by Anthony Fury, two fellows in the most literal and figurative senses outside the action at the Manning Centre Conference.
00:00:12.420 If you've been following on Twitter and Facebook, you've no doubt seen some of the things that are going on.
00:00:17.620 Premier Doug Ford spoke this morning, Conservative leader Andrew Scheer just spoke.
00:00:21.900 We've done some great sit-down interviews with some of the key players here.
00:00:25.160 None more exciting than Anthony Fury and me in one place to, well, hopefully one or two of you.
00:00:32.420 Anthony, how are you having a good time so far?
00:00:34.620 Great, always great to be here at the Manning Networking Conference.
00:00:38.180 I've been coming here for pretty much since it began.
00:00:40.860 It's been going on for a number of six or seven or eight years or so.
00:00:43.880 And a really interesting place, as you know Andrew, to see Conservative-minded individuals.
00:00:48.660 Not necessarily big C Conservatives. It's a small C Conservative event.
00:00:52.920 It's not an official party event. See people sort of get together and talk about the movement in general and the issues of the day as they kind of relate to all of that.
00:01:01.220 So always compelling stuff, not just the big headline item people, but the people you meet in the halls.
00:01:06.260 And talk to them about how things are going, get a feel for, you know, you touch base with someone from Alberta over here, someone from the East Coast.
00:01:11.940 How's your region going? How's that issue? And it's really informative from that level.
00:01:15.580 Yeah, it is. And it's interesting because the first Manning Conference I came to was in 2014.
00:01:21.020 And that was Harper Majority. Would be over a year, but it was there.
00:01:25.160 And then I was here two years ago. And that was a little bit of a different tone, obviously.
00:01:30.300 But there was still very much a rallying going on. The Conservative leadership race was happening.
00:01:34.960 And there was a big leadership debate.
00:01:36.760 This year I find kind of interesting because we were chatting before this started.
00:01:40.240 And this is the last rallying point, really, for Canadian Conservatives, small C and big C before the election.
00:01:47.620 And do you feel it? Do you feel that here?
00:01:51.800 Just between us? I'm not feeling it too much.
00:01:55.580 I mean, there's a momentum and an energy.
00:02:00.060 There's conviction politicians, and then there's people who are conviction politicians.
00:02:04.200 And, you know, Barack Obama was a conviction politician, that hope had changed.
00:02:08.040 Donald Trump, a conviction politician.
00:02:09.700 Doug Ford, you better believe he is.
00:02:11.780 Yes.
00:02:12.120 Andrew Scheer, I think a lot of people would say he's, you know, he's right on the issues.
00:02:16.880 He's a really nice guy, a really sort of more personal guy.
00:02:20.460 But the question of rallying cry is still not there.
00:02:24.460 So I'm not sure if I'm feeling this or seeing this from the people right now.
00:02:27.940 I don't know what that means.
00:02:29.220 You talk about a guy like Dalton McGinty, who governed for something like 12, 13 years.
00:02:32.900 That was a guy who, when he first won, people were saying there's no way he'd win.
00:02:36.100 There was no rallying cry.
00:02:37.080 There's no, you know, there's no stuff there.
00:02:39.800 But, you know, he prevailed for quite some time.
00:02:42.260 How do you see that whole question?
00:02:44.180 No, I think that's valid.
00:02:45.360 And I'm interested in deconstructing a lot of what happens in political speeches,
00:02:49.940 more than I'm interested in the speech itself.
00:02:52.220 And Andrew Scheer didn't give a speech.
00:02:53.720 He came and did a sit-down conversation with Mercedes Stevenson.
00:02:57.080 Now, Mercedes, I like.
00:02:58.140 She's with Global News, West Block.
00:03:00.000 She's not doing the softballs necessarily that you normally see at an event like this. 0.99
00:03:05.080 So she's a legitimate journalist.
00:03:07.080 But even then, I found it interesting that Andrew Scheer's strategy,
00:03:11.100 which I can impute from his remarks, was to be the everyman.
00:03:14.880 And we heard probably a good, you know, 10 minutes,
00:03:17.000 cumulatively over the course of his 45-minute session about, you know,
00:03:21.300 I am the son of a nurse and a librarian.
00:03:23.840 I grew up.
00:03:24.440 I'm just like you.
00:03:25.340 I drive a minivan.
00:03:26.180 Man, I've got five kids.
00:03:27.620 And I'm not disputing that that's him.
00:03:29.940 Sure.
00:03:30.300 But I wonder how much mileage you can get out of that.
00:03:32.960 Because, okay, you're one of us.
00:03:34.180 You're not a trust fund kid like Justin Trudeau.
00:03:36.440 You've still got to have the substance there.
00:03:38.140 And I was not getting that really red meat policy that I would have liked.
00:03:43.360 Yeah, not just your buddy at the bar, your middle-class buddy at the bar,
00:03:47.000 but your middle-class buddy at the bar who goes on to be leader of the G7 Nation.
00:03:51.120 Yeah, exactly.
00:03:51.880 You need that kind of extra step there.
00:03:53.940 Yes.
00:03:54.520 And I guess the question is, how does, how does she get it?
00:03:58.960 How do you think he can get it in the six months?
00:04:02.460 Is it possible?
00:04:04.280 Yeah.
00:04:04.580 And I, look, I don't like getting into the prediction game for a couple of reasons,
00:04:08.280 because there are so many variables in politics in general, in Canadian politics.
00:04:12.040 One thing that we really didn't hear today was SNC-Lavalin, right?
00:04:17.120 That was not really something that came up.
00:04:18.940 It came up in a more distant and obscure way.
00:04:21.800 And I don't know if that's something that is because the Conservatives are moving on.
00:04:25.860 I don't know if it's just because of the format.
00:04:27.920 But there's something that I think is a rallying cry to Conservatives.
00:04:30.900 And we're not seeing the Conservative leader do too much in the way of scoring points on that issue.
00:04:36.840 I mean, we've got a corruption scandal.
00:04:38.680 We've got a budget that's trying to give away money.
00:04:41.560 We've got all of these different things.
00:04:43.580 And I still didn't get from that.
00:04:45.700 And I don't want to beat up on the guy.
00:04:46.860 But I didn't get from what we heard today.
00:04:49.720 Yeah, this is the Conservatives headed towards a majority government.
00:04:52.620 Yeah, and I'm going to agree and disagree a bit there.
00:04:55.980 Because I think, I don't think Andrew Scheer wants to make it all about him right now.
00:05:02.180 And shouldn't for two reasons.
00:05:03.860 One, it can make it look like he's just like, yay, this guy's imploding.
00:05:06.720 And I want to be Prime Minister, so here's my opportunity to get in on this.
00:05:09.960 Because I think the big issue is Canadians with lab scam right now, they want to know, I want to know, who said what to whom and when did they say it.
00:05:17.980 Because then that's the integral question of did obstruction of justice happen or not.
00:05:21.960 I think this is a big picture issue.
00:05:23.060 It's like, is Canada becoming like some Eastern European autocracy?
00:05:26.380 Yeah, no, it's the edge of the wedge.
00:05:29.040 And that's the question.
00:05:29.820 This is a bigger picture than, you know, will Andrew Scheer win the next election or not.
00:05:33.320 So if he makes it kind of shamelessly all about his electoral prospects, you know, we got a problem there.
00:05:38.320 So when he said, for instance, and he started saying this weeks ago, Justin Trudeau must resign.
00:05:42.960 I was like, eh.
00:05:44.620 Like, there's a good argument.
00:05:45.380 Okay, but he's not going to, so what's next?
00:05:47.320 There's a good argument to be made that maybe he should not be prime minister anymore, so either there will be obstruction of justice charges by the RSMP or the voters will kick him out in October.
00:05:56.400 But, no, I don't really feel that.
00:05:58.560 So one thing, Tom Mulcair, as you know, was always respected for, during the Mike Duffy scandal, whatever you think about whether that was legit or not, and the courts kind of decided it wasn't, he walked on all 31 charges.
00:06:07.460 Because Tom Mulcair did a very sort of prosecutorial approach to question theory, where he said, who wrote this letter to that, and what did Nigel Wright say to this person at that time?
00:06:17.240 And Tom Mulcair is very respected for doing that.
00:06:19.640 I'd like to see that same type of performance from Andrew Scheer.
00:06:22.360 Yeah.
00:06:22.900 It's funny you mention that, because this morning Doug Ford spoke, and Doug Ford is that very electrifying figure and has been.
00:06:29.180 He's got that Ford Nation brand.
00:06:30.700 And one of the things that I found interesting is that Doug Ford was asked a question about the P in the PC party, so the progressive conservative.
00:06:39.000 And his answer, I actually felt, was kind of interesting.
00:06:41.600 He didn't say we're not a conservative party, but he was very clear that, look, I want NDP voters to support what we're doing.
00:06:47.700 I want liberal voters to support what we're doing.
00:06:49.460 I want all of this stuff, you know, because we were providing change.
00:06:53.180 And change is only valuable when you are offering something specific that is better than what you're changing.
00:07:01.140 Whereas Andrew Scheer, I didn't feel was doing something that was that distinct from that.
00:07:05.920 He was not saying, this is why conservative policies are great.
00:07:10.060 He was saying, this is why we as a party are going to be better than that party.
00:07:14.220 And I know that Canadians, by and large, don't love partisanship, or they say they don't.
00:07:19.500 So I don't know if that, that may well be more successful than saying this is conservatism.
00:07:23.480 But, at a conservative conference, I think that's the distinction, is that I think we were getting here, at the Manning Conference, a bit more of a general populist messaging.
00:07:33.820 No, good point.
00:07:34.400 I think you can do both of them.
00:07:35.960 When you talk about inspirational and regular Joe, like the Ronald Reagan celebration in America, Andrew Scheer, in one question he was asked, you know, are there these sort of neo-Nazi white supremacist type people?
00:07:46.720 You've been associated with that?
00:07:47.860 You know, it was one of those mushy questions that are already sort of, I find them quite banal and tedious.
00:07:52.340 Andrew Scheer should have slapped them away and then also said, you know, I want to cut taxes.
00:07:56.400 I want to reduce government, increase liberty for all Canadians, for Muslim Canadians, for LGBT Canadians, for, you know, people of every demographic.
00:08:04.580 This party is for you and for all of you, and these conservative principles are to make a better life and a better Canada for everybody.
00:08:10.860 Come on and, you know, be a part of this movement with me.
00:08:13.040 I mean, bring everybody into politics and, you know, a year ago, I was, I know you're doing some events here on the schedule here.
00:08:19.080 A year ago, I did an onstage interview with Doug Ford when he was running to be leader of the party.
00:08:22.540 And I can't remember how it came up.
00:08:24.140 I said, like, what's your campaign going to be?
00:08:25.880 Who are you going to appeal to?
00:08:26.820 And he said, I'm going to go and I'm going to talk to every conservative, every liberal voter, every NDPer. 0.82
00:08:31.280 I want your vote.
00:08:31.860 And I said, pause.
00:08:32.720 And I remember I said, stop.
00:08:33.680 And for the other, can you repeat that?
00:08:35.500 You believe you will win NDP votes and you are seeking the NDP demographic.
00:08:40.180 And he said, yes.
00:08:41.160 And I didn't know that part that you mentioned that Doug Ford said earlier.
00:08:43.820 So consistently for a year, he said that Doug Ford said, I'm for everybody.
00:08:48.140 And he's gone after everyone.
00:08:49.220 And, you know, that's a very big tag.
00:08:51.540 And it is interesting.
00:08:52.280 So Maxine Bernier is not here.
00:08:54.020 And I want to get your thoughts on that in a moment.
00:08:56.020 But one thing Maxine Bernier said in an interview, I think it was with Muslim Vote Canada or Muslim Voice Canada,
00:09:01.440 they had said, what are you going to do for Muslim Canadians?
00:09:03.620 And he gave what I thought was a great answer.
00:09:05.740 He said, nothing.
00:09:06.700 Because I'm governing all Canadians.
00:09:08.520 I'm not going to give Muslim Canadians a vote, Serbian Canadians a voice on this issue. 0.97
00:09:13.560 And he's not going to go through it one by one.
00:09:15.740 And I do think that conservatives need to do a better job at fighting that identity politics.
00:09:21.520 And to be honest, I think Stephen Harper might have actually been worse on that than he could have been.
00:09:25.920 And because he was so interested in having the multicultural support, Jason Kenney was in a different ethnic community and cultural community every week, every day.
00:09:35.300 But at a certain point, you've started siloing your message on it.
00:09:39.080 So I don't know where do you think that balance is between engaging different groups and pandering.
00:09:44.780 Because there is a line somewhere.
00:09:45.920 It's a good question.
00:09:46.720 And I think a lot of Jason Kenney, what he did was genuine outreach.
00:09:50.620 Yeah, it was.
00:09:51.720 From his perspective, it was genuine outreach.
00:09:54.120 But at a certain point, it just does become pandering when you're going, you know, is it possible?
00:09:59.320 Well, here's, you know, were I running for party leader or something?
00:10:02.500 If I had a policy, I am not going into any place of religious worship at all.
00:10:07.580 I want to meet all of you.
00:10:08.540 I want to talk to all of you.
00:10:09.780 But I want to do it in another sphere.
00:10:11.120 I don't want it to appear like I'm doing religious pandering.
00:10:13.040 But can you do that in Canada?
00:10:15.320 Can it work?
00:10:16.540 Is it that the power brokers just, you know, want to corral you there?
00:10:20.240 Yeah, okay, fine.
00:10:21.060 You know, it's hard to get 500 people in a room.
00:10:23.100 So a mosque or synagogue or a church is the best place to get sort of a more critical mass of people.
00:10:27.560 Is it possible and efficient to reach out to all demographics but not as that demographic, just as, you know, voters and Canadians?
00:10:37.400 So you can do your tax pitch for everyone.
00:10:39.500 You know, I want to reform infrastructure for the benefit of transgender.
00:10:43.300 Can you do that without pandering?
00:10:45.760 I don't have an answer to that.
00:10:47.220 No, but I think that also speaks volumes about where the Canadian political discourse is, that you have to run those calculations.
00:10:54.100 And, I mean, I've always been a big believer in flattening taxes, for example, because if you have a flatter tax, maybe even not a pure flat tax, but if you have a flatter tax, you're basically saying, look, we want everyone to have lower taxes.
00:11:04.680 As opposed to the child fitness tax credit, the home renovation tax credit, the transgender renovator tax credit.
00:11:11.680 Worst thing Stephen Harper did.
00:11:12.780 That was the worst part of his era.
00:11:14.020 All those tax credits.
00:11:14.880 It's great politics, but it's not as good policy.
00:11:17.820 And to be fair, I mean, we don't have a conservative platform yet.
00:11:20.760 We have a liberal budget, which is basically a liberal platform.
00:11:23.860 But I would love to see the conservative message be a solidly conservative message.
00:11:30.220 And I think that if we go beyond speaking style and energy level and all of that, that's where Andrew Scheer can, first off, cut out the Maxime Bernier effect.
00:11:37.480 And also, I think, appeal to centrists and moderates.
00:11:40.640 And also, too, those red meat policy want conservatives. 1.00
00:11:43.580 You know, I would wager the reason why people appear at this man conference if they've traveled across the country and the reason why people join any political party is because ultimately they do believe that their viewpoint, the issues they're advocating for it.
00:11:55.400 Is better than the other, yeah.
00:11:56.420 No, it's better than the other and will make people's lives better.
00:11:59.660 So if you're spending all this time and energy doing the political game, go out and tell people, I want to make your life better.
00:12:06.680 I believe my principles will do it.
00:12:08.460 Here's why.
00:12:09.300 And I think conservatives, and that's the Ronald Reagan pitch, you know, do that more.
00:12:14.360 That's the challenge.
00:12:14.900 And I see Andrew Scheer trying to do that.
00:12:16.400 I mean, it's not easy.
00:12:17.440 I don't envy anyone being in these sort of leadership positions.
00:12:21.260 But I think that's the sell.
00:12:23.140 I don't use this in a tacky way, but inclusive in a very technical term.
00:12:28.680 Yeah.
00:12:29.280 Yeah, and I do think that's important.
00:12:31.060 And the one issue that I think will always be the front and center is people's pocketbooks.
00:12:35.440 Like, that's always going to be the number one issue.
00:12:37.780 I was chatting with Joe Oliver, and that interview will be out very shortly, and he had said that, you know, deficits are important and debt's important and all of that.
00:12:44.880 But you have to go to Canadians and say, this is costing you $400 a year.
00:12:48.300 This is costing you that.
00:12:49.620 So it's about taking these macro concepts and distilling them in levels that the average voter cares and understands.
00:12:56.140 And those are two very important things if you want to win an election.
00:12:58.500 Yeah, you're right.
00:13:00.280 It's quite an interesting time here to see how that all is all coalescing here.
00:13:04.740 So we've got a few things coming up.
00:13:06.140 I'm doing a panel on immigration tomorrow and also the mobbing of Canadian history.
00:13:10.440 What are you looking for?
00:13:11.340 What do you want to be the takeaway from this, Anthony?
00:13:13.480 Well, back to what we were saying at the beginning.
00:13:14.800 I think the rallying cry, what conservatives who have really come from all across Canada to be a part of this meeting, that is a non-official conservative party meeting, a small-c conservative movement.
00:13:24.860 What do they feel is the issue du jour, whether it's just for them or what Andrew Scheer should take to the polls, in terms of the narrative, the story, the issue?
00:13:34.840 Where is the fight?
00:13:36.120 Because the fight can be, well, just when you're not going to the prime minister.
00:13:39.080 That's the negative story you're telling.
00:13:41.360 What's the positive story?
00:13:42.560 The pieces aren't together.
00:13:44.940 What do you think?
00:13:45.740 I think you're bang on.
00:13:46.960 And I think that we've got a few months until the election where that narrative is going to be apparent.
00:13:51.160 But I also think that few months is going to be gone in the blink of an eye.
00:13:54.300 Because really, if you've got an October election, a rip period, let's say about 40 days ahead of that, that's the summer.
00:13:59.980 So, I mean, the campaign is going to be in full swing before you know it here.
00:14:03.060 And I think these narratives need to be a bit more cemented before we get there.
00:14:07.560 All right.
00:14:08.100 He's Anthony Thierry.
00:14:08.900 I'm Andrew Lutton.
00:14:09.680 We'll have more coverage from the Manning Center Conference.
00:14:11.780 For True North, thanks for tuning in.