Juno News - May 03, 2019


True North Report： SNC-Lavalin never has to face consequences


Episode Stats

Length

30 minutes

Words per Minute

172.23312

Word Count

5,205

Sentence Count

300

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

Why does S&C Lavalin get a pass when it comes to corruption in Canada's political system? In this episode, Andrew Lutton discusses why one company seems to get a free pass, and why no one else does.


Transcript

00:00:00.040 Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to another edition of the True North Report.
00:00:04.740 My name is Andrew Lutton, a fellow with True North, and here to tackle the great big world of corruption,
00:00:12.260 which in Canadian politics right now is a little bit bigger than I think we have time for.
00:00:17.200 So we'll narrow it down and discuss specifically why one company seems to be getting a pass when it comes to their corruption,
00:00:26.440 and I don't even have to say alleged corruption in a number of cases because there's been findings of guilt against them,
00:00:32.780 and that company is, of course, S&C Lavalin.
00:00:36.320 Now, I know it was a few months ago, I think January specifically, that this company first, I'll say, exploded into becoming a household name in Canada.
00:00:46.480 It's a large company. They've got thousands upon thousands of employees, billions of dollars in work,
00:00:51.580 and long-standing connections to the federal government and governments around the world.
00:00:56.440 But I would say that it wasn't at the top of most Canadians' consciousness until January,
00:01:02.820 until that infamous Globe and Mail story in which it was said that Jody Wilson-Raybould was the recipient of pressure,
00:01:10.100 when she was the Attorney General, to offer a deferred prosecution agreement to S&C Lavalin.
00:01:16.660 And I think this started really a chain effect where three months later, everyone in Canada knows S&C Lavalin and not in a very positive light is that company discussed and known.
00:01:29.880 But even with that, there still is a great deal that needs to be understood about why this company has been continuously given passes over its wrongdoing.
00:01:40.840 And the story this week that I wanted to talk about in this context is the revelation of who, in fact, was on that famous list of 18 names of people who donated illegally to Canada's political parties,
00:01:57.180 specifically the Liberals, and were reimbursed, again, illegally by S&C Lavalin.
00:02:03.840 Now, this was a scheme orchestrated by S&C Lavalin, was operating between 2004 and 2009.
00:02:11.760 And during this time, about $8,000 was contributed to the Conservatives illegally,
00:02:16.280 and $110,000 was contributed illegally to the Liberal Party of Canada, to four Liberal riding associations,
00:02:24.440 and also to Liberal leadership contests.
00:02:27.420 I think four of those as well.
00:02:28.820 And why this is so important is because the left has responded to the news of this by saying,
00:02:36.060 oh, but, you know, they were donating to everyone.
00:02:38.000 They were donating to both sides.
00:02:39.560 Well, yes, they did technically donate to both the Liberals and the Conservatives,
00:02:43.660 but you've got to look at the number.
00:02:45.520 8,000 to the Conservatives and 110,000 to the Liberals.
00:02:50.180 And more importantly, you've got to look at how both of the parties responded to it.
00:02:55.020 And this is where the Liberals themselves have tried to keep their long-standing ties to S&C Lavalin buried,
00:03:01.800 when the Conservatives have been forthright about this.
00:03:05.240 So let's go back to 2016, if we can.
00:03:08.520 Elections Canada has an investigator looking into S&C Lavalin.
00:03:12.480 The Commissioner of Canada Elections does a finding that S&C Lavalin illegally reimbursed employees
00:03:19.140 and directors and executives and their spouses of this amount of money.
00:03:24.620 And they did this and released a letter to the Liberals and to the Conservatives saying,
00:03:29.700 just so you know, these are the people that were involved.
00:03:33.900 And what did the Conservatives do?
00:03:36.080 Well, the Conservatives handed over the list immediately upon request to the media.
00:03:39.640 The Liberals have, for the last three years, refused to disclose who the donors were.
00:03:46.360 And this is very, very significant in Canada right now,
00:03:49.980 because illegally contributed money is taken very seriously,
00:03:55.960 or let me say, is supposed to be taken very seriously.
00:04:00.080 The Liberals just said, okay, well, you know, it was a mistake and we refunded the money and that's that.
00:04:05.900 S&C Lavalin was able to get a pass.
00:04:07.840 The company itself did not face prosecution.
00:04:11.680 And the reason why it didn't is because it signed a letter,
00:04:15.280 a compliance agreement saying it won't break the law again in the future.
00:04:20.120 Now, I wrote about this in my Looney Politics column this week.
00:04:23.200 I thought the whole point of being a country with laws
00:04:25.820 is that the existence of law and your being a citizen of a country is your compliance agreement.
00:04:31.980 That's you saying you're not going to commit the law or you're not going to break the law.
00:04:35.840 When you do, I think it's safe to say that, yeah, you've broken the unwritten compliance agreement
00:04:42.920 you're supposed to have with the government.
00:04:46.720 S&C Lavalin broke that.
00:04:48.540 They broke that.
00:04:49.560 They willingly subverted campaign finance laws.
00:04:53.020 Corporate contributions to the political process have been illegal since 2004.
00:04:57.440 The scheme from S&C started in 2004.
00:05:01.600 So immediately, right out of the gate, wanted to start currying favor with political parties.
00:05:08.340 And at the time, the liberals were in power.
00:05:10.640 But remember, the scheme lasted until 2009.
00:05:13.980 Which means this wasn't just S&C sucking up to the party that was in power,
00:05:18.160 although that would be bad.
00:05:19.420 No, the conservatives won in 2006.
00:05:22.480 The conservatives had a minority government.
00:05:24.680 And S&C still contributed to this scheme, or through this scheme, rather,
00:05:28.740 to the federal liberal party.
00:05:31.420 Which means this is not just an example of a company doing what's called hedging
00:05:35.320 or trying to get in the good books of whoever was governing.
00:05:38.540 This was a company that was specifically trying to,
00:05:41.600 and succeeding in for about five years,
00:05:44.220 bankrolling the liberal party of Canada.
00:05:46.640 And it was only in 2016 that Canadians started to learn a little bit about this.
00:05:52.880 And even then, it got pretty much no coverage in the media.
00:05:56.560 It wasn't until the S&C Lavalin stories of the last few months
00:05:59.960 that people started looking back and seeing just how long a chain of events there has been
00:06:04.940 of misconduct, alleged wrongdoing, and proven wrongdoing by S&C Lavalin.
00:06:12.180 Now, I want to make something very clear here.
00:06:14.240 I am not impugning specific people in the company.
00:06:17.600 I'm not even looking at the company in its current iteration
00:06:20.000 and taking aim at its CEO, its board of directors, any of these people.
00:06:25.760 Because the company says it's done a clean house,
00:06:28.620 and they've basically been able to get rid of anyone that's been involved
00:06:31.260 in all of these past problems,
00:06:32.780 out of the picture, and replace them with new people.
00:06:35.100 I hope that's true.
00:06:36.640 I'm not speaking about the individual people.
00:06:39.020 I'm speaking about the company itself and the company's track record,
00:06:42.600 which is one that is inextricably linked to corruption,
00:06:46.580 and specifically bribery.
00:06:48.440 Bribery of Canadian officials, bribery of Libyan officials, bribery abroad.
00:06:53.060 So corrupt has S&C Lavalin been that even the World Bank,
00:06:57.340 which lends money to warlords,
00:06:59.860 will not do business with S&C Lavalin.
00:07:02.260 I mean, people don't realize how significant that is.
00:07:04.820 I think you could probably commit genocide,
00:07:07.560 and the World Bank will still say,
00:07:09.620 well, if there's a business case, you know, we'll back you.
00:07:12.140 But they will not do business with S&C Lavalin.
00:07:16.480 Of all the development projects around the world that S&C has,
00:07:19.900 the World Bank will not have anything to do with them.
00:07:22.640 And they're the reason that I think it was about four or five years ago,
00:07:25.940 Canada topped the corruption list of the World Bank
00:07:29.200 because, you know, of the, you know, 100 companies on their blacklist,
00:07:33.020 96 of them or something like that were S&C Lavalin affiliates
00:07:36.820 of the Canadian companies on the blacklist.
00:07:40.140 So this is so hugely significant right now.
00:07:44.060 We're not talking about a couple of petty contributions to the Liberal Party.
00:07:48.640 We're talking about a chapter in a longstanding pattern of behavior by the company.
00:07:54.880 And that's why it's so unconscionable that S&C Lavalin never has to deal with the consequences
00:08:01.540 of its actions.
00:08:03.000 And I want to go back to that contribution scheme
00:08:05.320 because I think this is a significant example of the broader problems here.
00:08:11.660 So there were 18 people that were illegally contributing.
00:08:14.720 Most of their names you wouldn't know.
00:08:16.360 Some of them have copped to it and said,
00:08:18.060 oh, yeah, definitely this was a scheme run by the company.
00:08:22.280 Others have said, well, I don't remember any wrongdoing and whatnot.
00:08:26.780 And that's that.
00:08:27.940 But this was the finding.
00:08:29.040 The finding by the Commissioner of Canada Elections
00:08:32.440 is that this was all illegal.
00:08:35.300 None of the 18 people faced charges.
00:08:38.260 None of the company members faced charges except for one person.
00:08:42.440 One person.
00:08:43.220 And that was a former Vice President of S&C, Norman Moran,
00:08:47.460 who just a couple of years ago, or actually, no, a couple of months ago,
00:08:52.860 quietly pleaded guilty to two charges,
00:08:57.860 two counts of electoral financing violations.
00:09:01.820 His penalty, I want you to hear this,
00:09:03.980 the penalty for a legal six-figure sum of money
00:09:08.240 to the Liberal Party of Canada
00:09:09.740 was a $2,000 fine.
00:09:14.640 Yes, you heard that correctly.
00:09:16.440 A $2,000 fine.
00:09:18.020 So that I did the rough math.
00:09:19.140 I think that's 1.8% of the total value of this scheme.
00:09:23.320 That was the punishment, $2,000.
00:09:25.120 These S&C labeling executives, I think, spend $2,000 on lunch.
00:09:28.840 And here he is, his fine for breaking the law,
00:09:31.800 the one person to face punishment for this,
00:09:34.380 is $2,000, which is just insane.
00:09:37.660 Now, here's a guy, he's retired, he's not in the picture right now,
00:09:41.240 so the company itself faces no punishment.
00:09:45.020 The company itself, they're still skating
00:09:47.840 because of this so-called compliance agreement.
00:09:50.600 And I think that this compliance agreement narrative
00:09:55.340 is so similar to the deferred prosecution narrative
00:09:59.100 that we see in the current bribery scandal,
00:10:02.460 the one that, thankfully, Jody Wilson-Raybould
00:10:05.280 didn't want anything to do with
00:10:06.980 when she was looking at the company
00:10:08.240 and making her determination as the Attorney General.
00:10:11.960 And she looked at the math, she looked at the record,
00:10:15.740 she looked at all of the facts and said,
00:10:17.620 you know, I cannot, in good conscience,
00:10:20.040 intervene in what's supposed to be
00:10:22.080 an independent prosecution
00:10:23.540 and say, we're going to settle this,
00:10:25.840 we're going to avoid a trial,
00:10:27.040 we're going to look after the best interests of the company
00:10:29.360 rather than the country.
00:10:31.820 And we know, the facts are very clear,
00:10:34.200 that that was not the position taken by the federal government.
00:10:37.480 Justin Trudeau wanted to get her to keep thinking about it
00:10:41.360 and rethinking about it and reconsidering,
00:10:43.560 reconsidering until she changed her mind to his position.
00:10:48.400 It's not, okay, I want you to have all the facts
00:10:50.600 and make your own decision.
00:10:51.720 It's, I want you to keep thinking and keep trying
00:10:54.220 and keep looking until you get to my decision.
00:10:57.640 And we heard evidence of this
00:10:59.480 in that recorded phone call with Michael Wernick,
00:11:02.100 the former clerk of the Privy Council.
00:11:04.640 Wernick, who said the exact quote,
00:11:06.660 the prime minister is in a mood
00:11:07.980 where he's going to get this done one way or another.
00:11:12.560 That is pressure.
00:11:14.120 Pressure that Justin Trudeau said never happened.
00:11:16.680 Pressure that Jody Wilson-Raybould,
00:11:18.360 very frankly, said did happen.
00:11:20.720 And that was why ultimately she resigned from cabinet,
00:11:24.740 was kicked out of caucus
00:11:26.040 and is now not even able to run as a liberal candidate
00:11:29.400 in the election later this year.
00:11:31.720 So the Jody Wilson-Raybould issue is significant
00:11:35.260 because this is one more example
00:11:38.020 of where if the federal government had its way,
00:11:41.420 SNC-Lavalin would once again
00:11:43.260 have not been facing consequences for its action.
00:11:46.460 It would have done exactly what it did
00:11:48.400 in this illegal campaign financing ring,
00:11:51.140 just sign a little letter and all the problems go away.
00:11:55.840 And you know what?
00:11:56.700 I do have some sympathy for the company's position
00:12:00.240 that there could be job losses
00:12:02.140 if the company were forced into a negative situation economically.
00:12:06.540 Yes, absolutely.
00:12:08.000 And I'm sympathetic to the workers
00:12:09.580 who are involved in SNC-Lavalin projects
00:12:12.320 that have nothing to do with the corruption and bribery
00:12:15.460 and all of these other things.
00:12:16.980 But at the same time, right now,
00:12:18.580 they're being used as pawns.
00:12:20.220 And quite frankly,
00:12:21.060 their jobs are being used as hostages
00:12:23.900 in a negotiation by SNC.
00:12:26.240 As it says, no, no, no,
00:12:27.180 you can't do anything to us
00:12:28.660 because we have all of these jobs
00:12:30.900 that we could get rid of at any given moment.
00:12:33.820 And there's no easy solution to that politically,
00:12:36.740 which is why you have to separate the politics
00:12:39.160 from the rule of law.
00:12:40.800 And Jody Wilson-Raybould did that.
00:12:42.720 Justin Trudeau did the opposite of that.
00:12:45.180 Michael Wernick did the opposite of that.
00:12:48.280 So SNC has been given a pass continuously.
00:12:51.640 Even though they were found too corrupt
00:12:53.640 to do business with the World Bank,
00:12:55.560 they were getting federal contracts in Canada,
00:12:58.120 millions of dollars worth of them,
00:12:59.480 as a matter of fact.
00:13:00.660 Even though they were bribing Libyan officials
00:13:02.760 and funneling millions of dollars
00:13:04.540 to the Gaddafi regime,
00:13:06.340 the Canadian government said,
00:13:07.900 okay, we'll still do business with you.
00:13:10.800 Despite having money that they're putting
00:13:13.500 into hookers and strippers
00:13:15.880 and million-dollar hotel bills
00:13:18.160 and all of this to grease the palms
00:13:20.100 and whatever else of these Libyan officials,
00:13:23.900 SNC-Lavalin still was on track
00:13:27.120 to get this deferred prosecution agreement
00:13:29.380 had there not been someone willing
00:13:31.520 to stand between them and that agreement
00:13:34.020 and say, no.
00:13:35.520 And that was Jody Wilson-Raybould.
00:13:37.760 And I know that a lot of Canadians,
00:13:39.780 myself included,
00:13:40.840 have looked at Jody Wilson-Raybould
00:13:42.400 in a political context.
00:13:44.140 But Canada does owe her a debt of gratitude.
00:13:46.860 And I've never made this point before.
00:13:49.660 But the country owes her a debt of gratitude
00:13:51.960 for not allowing, at that point anyway,
00:13:55.340 the company to once again get away
00:13:57.420 with all the things
00:13:58.700 that it's been getting away with for years.
00:14:01.640 You know, I mentioned in a column
00:14:03.640 that I wrote just recently
00:14:04.820 that SNC-Lavalin,
00:14:06.220 which we all bill as a construction company,
00:14:08.360 seems to export more corruption
00:14:10.200 than construction.
00:14:11.800 And this is significant.
00:14:13.720 And again, this is not conjecture.
00:14:15.020 This is not me making a broad conclusion
00:14:18.740 from scant facts.
00:14:20.020 These are findings of fact
00:14:21.560 that have been leveled repeatedly.
00:14:23.560 And every time they say,
00:14:24.600 no, no, no, we're going to do better next time.
00:14:26.500 They're like the partner that cheats
00:14:29.040 and keeps saying, no, no, no,
00:14:30.320 but I can change, I can change, I can change.
00:14:32.720 And, you know, there's a part of me
00:14:34.400 that wants to find that reprehensible.
00:14:36.260 But how can I say it's an ineffective strategy
00:14:38.700 when it's been working for them?
00:14:41.160 It's been working for them
00:14:42.460 because you have people like Justin Trudeau
00:14:44.600 that keep taking them back time and time again.
00:14:47.320 That's what the justice system has done.
00:14:49.460 That's what liberal
00:14:50.520 and conservative governments have done.
00:14:52.920 And Canadians are left looking saying,
00:14:55.380 how on earth is there any justification
00:14:57.260 for what this company has been allowed to do
00:14:59.840 and get away with?
00:15:01.320 I'm assuming there are a lot of criminals
00:15:03.360 and criminal outfits in Canada,
00:15:05.160 people that have broken the law
00:15:06.400 and been sentenced to jail time
00:15:08.340 that are wondering what on earth it is
00:15:10.060 they can do to get the SNC deal.
00:15:11.740 Because the SNC deal is just like
00:15:14.200 paying a parking ticket.
00:15:15.420 You get caught bribing someone,
00:15:17.080 yeah, just, you know, make it go away.
00:15:18.380 Except they don't even need to pay the ticket.
00:15:20.360 It's like they just sign the ticket
00:15:21.660 and hand it back and say,
00:15:22.640 yeah, yeah, I won't speed again.
00:15:24.080 It's like they're just giving the warning.
00:15:25.460 They're never even given the ticket.
00:15:27.560 And it's absolutely insane.
00:15:29.740 This is a company that has avoided
00:15:32.240 having to deal with any consequences
00:15:34.320 and a government that has allowed that to happen.
00:15:37.540 Steve writes on Facebook here,
00:15:39.760 if I committed a crime
00:15:40.700 and write a letter stating I won't do it,
00:15:42.840 again, I can get away with it.
00:15:44.420 The liberals should be accounted for their actions.
00:15:46.860 Yeah, and, you know,
00:15:47.660 there is still a question mark.
00:15:49.140 Are we talking about
00:15:50.060 general government incompetence here
00:15:52.020 or something more sinister?
00:15:54.160 And I don't have the answer to that.
00:15:55.940 I think that in a lot of cases,
00:15:58.060 politicians are very naive
00:15:59.480 and they like the idea of
00:16:01.900 not being the one on whose watch
00:16:04.240 9,000 jobs left.
00:16:06.000 But we also know
00:16:07.520 that S&C is deliberately overstating
00:16:10.220 the job losses
00:16:11.200 because, like I mentioned,
00:16:13.300 and it may be a harsh analogy,
00:16:14.840 but they're treating
00:16:15.460 their own employees like hostages
00:16:17.500 and getting the federal government
00:16:18.940 to pay the ransom.
00:16:20.340 And that's precisely what's happening here.
00:16:23.020 Now, Corey writes,
00:16:24.160 they could work for the next company.
00:16:25.480 S&C wasn't the biggest player in Canada
00:16:27.760 until Trudeau got into power.
00:16:31.340 I don't know if that's the case.
00:16:33.360 I mean, they've always been a big player.
00:16:34.740 They certainly haven't been
00:16:36.460 a household name until January.
00:16:39.360 I mean, there's a good chance of you...
00:16:41.340 I mean, their stock has gone down
00:16:42.880 significantly since January.
00:16:44.400 So if you want to get in,
00:16:45.720 you know, buy some S&C stock,
00:16:47.500 I'm sure you could.
00:16:48.260 But again, I wouldn't want to.
00:16:50.220 I wouldn't want to be an investor
00:16:51.440 in that company
00:16:52.180 for practical and moral reasons.
00:16:54.680 I mean, the moral reasons
00:16:55.620 I've talked about,
00:16:56.680 the practical reasons are that
00:16:58.060 you have no idea what's going to happen.
00:16:59.860 They're one prosecution away
00:17:01.220 from being completely obliterated,
00:17:03.760 theoretically,
00:17:04.260 the way they tell the story anyway.
00:17:06.140 The way they tell it
00:17:07.200 is that anytime they're hauled before a court,
00:17:09.820 it's going to be the end of 9,000 jobs,
00:17:12.540 and they're going to leave Canada
00:17:13.660 and do all of this.
00:17:15.380 And I'm like,
00:17:15.820 great, why not go to Libya?
00:17:17.320 If you want to conduct yourselves
00:17:19.880 the way that Libyan businesses
00:17:22.020 conduct themselves,
00:17:23.100 then go to Libya.
00:17:23.880 But you do not get the benefit
00:17:25.760 of being called a Canadian company
00:17:27.640 when you are behaving in such,
00:17:29.760 if I may say,
00:17:31.000 an un-Canadian way.
00:17:33.580 And again, I go back to the issues here
00:17:35.680 being the lack of consequences,
00:17:38.040 that they never have to pay
00:17:39.600 the consequences of their actions.
00:17:42.800 Very demonstrable, proven,
00:17:45.100 and markedly wrong actions.
00:17:48.360 And you can actually go right now
00:17:50.120 onto, I think it's Industry Canada
00:17:52.460 or Public Procurement Canada.
00:17:53.840 I can't remember the name
00:17:54.560 of the exact website.
00:17:55.800 But there's a website
00:17:56.480 where you can look at
00:17:57.180 all the active contracts
00:17:59.020 that SNC has
00:18:00.080 with the federal government.
00:18:01.780 And some of them are aid projects
00:18:03.440 around the world.
00:18:04.240 Others are domestic.
00:18:05.580 And some of them are,
00:18:07.260 you know, for, you know,
00:18:08.080 $50,000.
00:18:09.100 Others are for tens of thousands,
00:18:10.880 hundreds of thousands of dollars.
00:18:12.520 But it is millions on that list.
00:18:14.520 And I don't want to make up a number,
00:18:16.280 but I did a calculation not long ago
00:18:18.380 and was amazed at just how much money
00:18:21.240 there still is there.
00:18:23.040 that they're getting from the feds.
00:18:24.880 And again, this is not just a liberal problem.
00:18:26.980 This was also a conservative problem
00:18:28.720 that I think Stephen Harper has to wear.
00:18:31.280 But suffice it to say,
00:18:32.420 it's wrong either way.
00:18:33.660 And this is not specific
00:18:35.300 to a particular partisan side of this.
00:18:40.080 So where do we go from here?
00:18:42.240 Well, for starters,
00:18:43.800 you have to block them
00:18:45.160 from bidding on federal contracts.
00:18:48.680 I mean, at least for a time.
00:18:50.380 Charlie Angus,
00:18:51.320 who's a new Democrat member of Parliament,
00:18:53.920 suggested,
00:18:54.540 I think back in February,
00:18:55.500 that they should be pulled off the roster,
00:18:57.700 not allowed to bid on federal contracts.
00:18:59.920 And I think that should have already happened.
00:19:02.960 I mean, I'm not one of these people
00:19:04.100 who looks to the World Bank
00:19:05.740 and says,
00:19:06.340 okay, we should follow their lead.
00:19:07.940 But I do think that it's telling.
00:19:09.640 If the World Bank
00:19:10.460 is not wanting to do business with S&C,
00:19:13.180 but will do business with like everyone else,
00:19:15.220 I think a Somali warlord or something
00:19:16.920 could probably get a loan
00:19:18.140 to put in a pool from the World Bank,
00:19:20.860 then we should certainly
00:19:22.720 take it into consideration and question,
00:19:25.600 why are we continuing to do this?
00:19:28.000 And that would be the first step here
00:19:30.860 of say,
00:19:31.900 look, we've got to turn off the tap
00:19:33.860 for at least five years
00:19:35.740 while you guys get your house in order.
00:19:39.140 And first off,
00:19:40.420 that would prove
00:19:41.200 that they're probably bluffing
00:19:42.880 when it comes to the job loss issues.
00:19:45.600 But it would also prove that Canada
00:19:47.900 is willing to talk tough here.
00:19:50.900 And I find it interesting
00:19:52.040 that the left will,
00:19:53.700 and specifically the Liberal Party of Canada,
00:19:55.820 but the left more broadly,
00:19:57.380 will always go after Conservatives
00:19:59.020 for being in bed with corporations
00:20:00.580 and Conservatives are for big business.
00:20:03.120 Well, it doesn't get much bigger business
00:20:05.600 than S&C-Lavalin.
00:20:06.740 And here we have longstanding ties
00:20:08.860 between S&C and the Liberals
00:20:11.000 and a former S&C president
00:20:12.980 who's on the board of the Trudeau Foundation.
00:20:15.100 And I mean,
00:20:15.980 these are all things
00:20:17.380 that everyone knows right now
00:20:20.460 that have not amounted
00:20:22.920 to significant change
00:20:24.560 in the way things manifest
00:20:27.100 and the way that business is actually done.
00:20:30.180 So I would venture a guess
00:20:32.400 to say that most Canadians
00:20:34.220 who have never heard of them before
00:20:37.000 only know the negative.
00:20:38.440 They only know the greatest hits
00:20:39.480 of this company,
00:20:40.280 but this is all accurate.
00:20:41.660 These are all true details.
00:20:43.780 And it's not to say
00:20:44.600 they aren't capable of good construction.
00:20:46.400 It's not to say
00:20:46.900 they aren't capable of delivering
00:20:48.500 a product on time, under budget.
00:20:50.480 I mean, I'm sure they can.
00:20:51.340 I'm sure they do lots of great work.
00:20:53.240 But you cannot take that
00:20:55.280 and extract it
00:20:56.860 from all of these other ethical issues
00:20:59.140 and view it in isolation.
00:21:01.040 You have to look at the company
00:21:02.540 in its totality.
00:21:04.460 And at the very least,
00:21:05.540 you have to start putting
00:21:06.440 some consequences down.
00:21:07.700 If a giant multi-billion dollar corporation
00:21:11.520 is able to get away with things
00:21:13.760 that I couldn't get away
00:21:14.800 with a fraction of,
00:21:16.920 there would be a problem.
00:21:18.360 Just imagine that, for example.
00:21:20.320 Whenever you,
00:21:20.940 and I ran as a candidate,
00:21:22.060 and I know the laws
00:21:22.840 are slightly different
00:21:23.840 provincially to federally,
00:21:25.440 but the idea of a corporate ban
00:21:27.100 exists in both.
00:21:28.940 When you donate to a political party,
00:21:31.280 you have to give a check
00:21:32.920 in your name
00:21:33.680 and you have to fill out a form.
00:21:35.420 And on that form,
00:21:36.660 you have to say,
00:21:37.320 I hereby attest
00:21:38.400 that I'm making up the words,
00:21:39.920 but the sentiment is true,
00:21:41.100 that I'm donating
00:21:42.300 through my own personal funds,
00:21:44.360 not company funds,
00:21:45.700 and not to be reimbursed
00:21:47.540 by a company
00:21:48.460 or anyone else.
00:21:49.840 So I couldn't donate
00:21:50.980 the maximum
00:21:51.980 and then give you some money
00:21:54.100 to donate the maximum as well.
00:21:56.020 And I couldn't donate the maximum
00:21:57.760 and then write it off
00:21:59.240 as a business expense
00:22:00.260 to some corporation
00:22:01.840 that I own,
00:22:02.520 small or large.
00:22:03.280 So if I as an individual person
00:22:06.560 would be in violation of the law
00:22:08.900 and you better believe
00:22:09.700 they would come down on me
00:22:10.780 if they learned about it
00:22:11.760 for doing this,
00:22:13.180 then you better believe
00:22:14.560 that SNC-Lavalin
00:22:15.540 should as well.
00:22:16.920 And it's not to say
00:22:18.060 that Elections Canada
00:22:19.160 is just this excessively
00:22:20.420 permissive body.
00:22:21.660 It's not at all.
00:22:22.860 And take a look,
00:22:23.700 and I know Christy Blatchford
00:22:24.940 in the National Post
00:22:25.760 made this point.
00:22:27.000 Take a look at Dean Del Mastro.
00:22:28.940 Dean Del Mastro,
00:22:30.080 a member of parliament,
00:22:31.100 he was at one point
00:22:32.220 the parliamentary secretary
00:22:33.500 to Stephen Harper,
00:22:34.860 a very good guy.
00:22:36.860 He screwed up
00:22:37.740 in his 2008 election campaign.
00:22:40.340 He overspent.
00:22:41.600 And he had a very plausible
00:22:43.120 explanation for it,
00:22:44.460 which you can read up
00:22:45.260 if you care to delve
00:22:46.540 into the story further.
00:22:47.880 But he had a very plausible
00:22:48.980 explanation,
00:22:49.880 even if he was wrong
00:22:51.600 and he knew he was wrong.
00:22:53.340 His was $24,000
00:22:55.600 that he overspent.
00:22:57.460 And what did he get for that?
00:22:59.040 He got jail time.
00:23:00.700 He got jail time for it.
00:23:03.300 SNC-Lavalin,
00:23:04.540 a sophisticated scheme
00:23:06.060 involving 18 people,
00:23:08.240 six-figure sums,
00:23:09.820 spanning years,
00:23:11.000 and not a single person
00:23:12.440 goes to jail over it.
00:23:14.340 The only person who's punished,
00:23:15.660 I remind you,
00:23:16.860 a $2,000 fine.
00:23:20.200 Now, you may say
00:23:21.400 that Dean Del Mastro
00:23:22.940 got what he deserved.
00:23:23.820 Fine.
00:23:24.420 If you think he got
00:23:25.440 what he deserved,
00:23:26.420 then surely someone
00:23:27.620 in SNC-Lavalin
00:23:28.520 should have had to pay
00:23:29.460 more for what
00:23:30.780 that company did.
00:23:31.900 If you think that
00:23:32.760 Dean Del Mastro
00:23:33.820 was treated too harshly,
00:23:36.820 fine.
00:23:37.300 Then you still have to
00:23:38.280 look at the inconsistency
00:23:39.640 that exists in the way
00:23:41.180 these things are dealt with.
00:23:43.400 Same as Michael Sona
00:23:45.100 or the one that everyone
00:23:46.300 calls Pierre Poutine.
00:23:47.480 I mean, there were
00:23:47.860 a lot of holes
00:23:48.520 in that case.
00:23:51.280 Full disclosure,
00:23:52.300 I know Michael Sona.
00:23:53.420 I've known him
00:23:54.200 for several years.
00:23:55.380 I've never talked to him
00:23:56.460 about this case,
00:23:57.180 so I'm speaking solely
00:23:58.160 on media reports here.
00:23:59.840 But here's a guy
00:24:00.700 who, again,
00:24:01.240 served jail time,
00:24:02.480 and I think it was months,
00:24:03.560 months plural,
00:24:04.400 behind bars,
00:24:05.420 for a conviction
00:24:06.740 stemming from
00:24:07.800 elections issues.
00:24:09.760 So it's not that
00:24:10.560 we are lenient
00:24:11.520 in the way we view
00:24:12.800 violations of electoral law.
00:24:15.580 It's that we are
00:24:16.580 selectively lenient,
00:24:18.460 selectively strict.
00:24:19.760 And if you have
00:24:20.680 SNC in your name,
00:24:22.600 you get the lenient side.
00:24:24.140 I mean,
00:24:25.480 an affiliation
00:24:26.240 with SNC
00:24:26.840 honestly seems to be
00:24:27.960 a get-out-of-jail-free card
00:24:29.780 whenever you are
00:24:31.520 going through
00:24:32.620 all of these things.
00:24:34.080 Bob writes,
00:24:35.240 did SNC-Lavalin
00:24:36.080 also make illegal
00:24:37.120 contributions
00:24:37.760 to the Conservative Party?
00:24:39.060 Yeah,
00:24:39.480 and I mentioned
00:24:39.920 this earlier,
00:24:40.580 Bob,
00:24:40.860 you might not
00:24:41.440 have tuned in yet,
00:24:42.360 so thank you for asking.
00:24:43.840 $8,000.
00:24:45.040 $8,000
00:24:45.920 compared to
00:24:46.820 $110,000
00:24:47.920 to the Liberals.
00:24:50.040 Again,
00:24:50.600 this was brought
00:24:51.200 to the attention
00:24:51.800 of the Conservatives
00:24:52.660 and the Liberals
00:24:53.480 in 2016.
00:24:55.300 The Liberals
00:24:56.040 have tried to hide
00:24:57.380 the names
00:24:58.220 of the people involved,
00:24:59.300 whereas the Conservatives
00:25:00.380 immediately handed over
00:25:01.640 upon request
00:25:02.440 the list of people
00:25:03.780 that were involved
00:25:04.680 and said,
00:25:05.120 yeah,
00:25:05.280 we don't want
00:25:05.980 anything to do with this.
00:25:07.380 So there was
00:25:07.960 a very significant disparity
00:25:10.940 not just in the sums
00:25:12.140 donated to the two parties,
00:25:14.000 but also the way
00:25:14.940 that those parties
00:25:15.840 dealt with it.
00:25:16.760 And the only reason
00:25:18.260 we have the names now,
00:25:20.100 and I just did a video
00:25:20.960 about this,
00:25:21.500 I think yesterday
00:25:22.020 or Tuesday,
00:25:22.840 is because they were leaked
00:25:24.140 by an unknown party
00:25:25.360 to CBC Rédio-Canada,
00:25:27.680 which published them
00:25:28.920 and caught up with them
00:25:30.360 and in doing so
00:25:32.620 found that some of them
00:25:34.820 were completely willing
00:25:35.620 to admit,
00:25:36.040 oh yeah,
00:25:36.300 this is totally a scam,
00:25:37.360 like yeah,
00:25:37.720 and then others
00:25:38.280 are still claiming
00:25:39.080 their innocence.
00:25:39.960 And there's also a woman
00:25:41.280 who ended up serving
00:25:42.360 in the Quebec,
00:25:43.100 well still serves
00:25:44.080 in the Quebec National Assembly
00:25:45.700 that was involved
00:25:46.880 in this,
00:25:47.260 who's pretending
00:25:47.820 that there's no issue,
00:25:49.240 nothing happened
00:25:49.960 and all of this other stuff.
00:25:51.800 So I go back
00:25:54.060 to what I said earlier,
00:25:56.960 that if we are going
00:25:58.060 to be a country
00:25:58.820 that claims
00:26:00.240 the rule of law matters,
00:26:02.020 we have to,
00:26:02.880 as a country,
00:26:03.960 go after the people
00:26:05.060 who violate that spirit.
00:26:07.640 And Jody Wilson-Raybould
00:26:09.300 wanted to do that.
00:26:10.520 She said,
00:26:10.920 look, let's,
00:26:11.500 and by the way,
00:26:12.020 she was not doing
00:26:12.680 anything unfair.
00:26:13.380 She wasn't saying
00:26:14.300 let's, you know,
00:26:15.440 bankrupt them,
00:26:16.600 throw them behind bars.
00:26:17.660 She was saying,
00:26:18.140 let's actually have
00:26:18.920 a trial on this.
00:26:20.340 Let's send this case
00:26:21.220 to trial.
00:26:21.780 Let's let them
00:26:22.300 get a fair hearing.
00:26:23.460 Let them defend themselves
00:26:24.680 and let there be
00:26:25.340 a robust prosecution.
00:26:26.880 That's the way
00:26:27.560 the justice system
00:26:28.440 is supposed to work.
00:26:30.060 The request
00:26:31.060 that was put on her
00:26:32.320 and later the demand
00:26:33.880 that was put on her
00:26:35.040 by Justin Trudeau
00:26:37.020 and Michael Wernick
00:26:38.060 and such
00:26:39.020 was what S&C
00:26:40.440 was asking for itself,
00:26:41.760 which was basically
00:26:43.260 bypassing that process
00:26:44.940 to do an out-of-court
00:26:46.580 settlement.
00:26:47.380 And people have tried to,
00:26:48.680 the government has tried
00:26:49.420 to spin the DPA,
00:26:51.200 the Deferred Prosecution Agreement
00:26:52.640 as being,
00:26:53.080 oh, no, no, no,
00:26:53.400 but it's not just like
00:26:54.660 a get-out-of-sale free card.
00:26:56.020 It's a detailed,
00:26:57.680 robust,
00:26:58.960 and check-and-balance
00:27:00.860 filled assurance
00:27:01.780 that you're never
00:27:02.360 going to do it again.
00:27:03.400 It's a promissory note.
00:27:05.420 Like, that's what it is.
00:27:06.260 You're saying,
00:27:06.840 yeah, yeah,
00:27:07.120 we're not going to do it again
00:27:08.060 and we're going to take
00:27:08.600 these steps,
00:27:09.100 but that doesn't work
00:27:10.920 when your company
00:27:11.660 has repeatedly been involved
00:27:13.520 in very similar conduct.
00:27:16.480 I mean,
00:27:16.700 there is bribery
00:27:17.520 in multiple cases
00:27:19.540 and that bribery
00:27:20.460 equals corruption.
00:27:21.620 I mean,
00:27:21.780 when I use corruption
00:27:23.380 as an umbrella term,
00:27:24.500 but it includes bribery
00:27:25.540 in that.
00:27:26.000 You can look at
00:27:26.540 the Montreal Hospital issue,
00:27:28.600 you can look at Libya,
00:27:29.640 you can look at Libya again,
00:27:30.880 you can look at more Libya.
00:27:32.400 I mean,
00:27:32.740 all of the roads
00:27:33.740 seem to be going back there.
00:27:36.060 And, you know,
00:27:37.240 there's this term,
00:27:39.000 and I'm not a lawyer,
00:27:40.000 but there's this term
00:27:40.660 I read of recently
00:27:41.700 that I like,
00:27:43.480 which maybe you've already heard of
00:27:45.020 called a libel-proof plaintiff,
00:27:46.580 which is basically someone
00:27:48.140 who, like,
00:27:48.680 there's no way
00:27:49.440 you could damage
00:27:50.060 their reputation
00:27:50.660 because they've sufficiently
00:27:51.900 damaged it enough
00:27:52.740 on their own.
00:27:53.600 And when you look
00:27:54.240 at the rap sheet
00:27:55.200 in the media coverage
00:27:56.980 and all of this
00:27:57.620 that SNC is facing,
00:27:58.760 it's like,
00:27:59.560 this is a company
00:28:00.600 that has no legitimacy
00:28:03.360 or credibility
00:28:04.160 to speak of,
00:28:05.500 in my view,
00:28:06.620 from where it is now.
00:28:08.100 So,
00:28:08.660 the Canadian government
00:28:10.420 is enabling this
00:28:12.020 by continuing
00:28:12.760 to give it money
00:28:13.680 as though this was
00:28:14.420 anything other.
00:28:15.480 And, you know,
00:28:16.760 when we know the way
00:28:17.640 it does business abroad,
00:28:20.040 its profits
00:28:20.700 are real gotten gains
00:28:21.720 as far as I'm concerned.
00:28:24.640 Paula writes,
00:28:26.040 if Trudeau did so many
00:28:27.560 mistake and fraud,
00:28:29.860 sorry,
00:28:30.320 I'm just,
00:28:30.660 I want to make sure
00:28:31.140 I understand this,
00:28:33.360 oh,
00:28:34.720 I see it,
00:28:35.100 yeah.
00:28:36.460 Look,
00:28:36.900 thanks for that comment,
00:28:37.680 Paula.
00:28:37.880 I'm sure other people
00:28:38.520 will chime in.
00:28:39.420 I don't think that
00:28:40.420 what Trudeau has done
00:28:42.060 in the SNC,
00:28:42.820 I mean,
00:28:43.060 you can't fire Trudeau.
00:28:44.220 That's what she's asking,
00:28:46.180 but you can't fire Trudeau.
00:28:47.880 We can during an election.
00:28:50.060 I mean,
00:28:50.200 that's our only opportunity.
00:28:51.820 And I think Canadians
00:28:52.480 will decide.
00:28:53.860 My prediction
00:28:54.940 that I made
00:28:55.580 a couple of months ago,
00:28:56.920 I still fear is accurate,
00:28:58.940 which is that
00:28:59.680 people will lose interest
00:29:01.740 in this.
00:29:02.160 And all of the discussions
00:29:03.680 of an SNC
00:29:04.480 will ultimately become
00:29:06.080 background noise.
00:29:07.120 And I fear that
00:29:08.280 is going to happen,
00:29:10.040 especially as we get further
00:29:12.280 from that initial Globe
00:29:13.720 and Mail story
00:29:14.560 and head towards October,
00:29:16.860 where it will have been
00:29:17.680 nine months
00:29:18.580 since Canadians learned
00:29:19.980 of this.
00:29:20.460 And ultimately,
00:29:21.140 it'll all be old news.
00:29:22.480 And yeah,
00:29:22.980 I'm sure Andrew Scheer
00:29:23.860 will bring it up in debates,
00:29:25.040 but it's not going
00:29:26.580 to have the oomph,
00:29:27.800 because Canadians
00:29:28.640 and people in general
00:29:30.120 tend to have short memories
00:29:31.740 on these things.
00:29:32.500 So my call to you
00:29:33.780 is to keep it alive
00:29:35.440 because this is
00:29:36.360 the ballgame here, folks.
00:29:38.060 We're talking about ethics,
00:29:39.400 which is beyond
00:29:40.120 whether you agree
00:29:41.220 with this tax cut
00:29:42.220 or that environmental policy.
00:29:43.900 This is something
00:29:45.080 far more fundamental,
00:29:46.760 and that's whether
00:29:47.740 a government is prepared
00:29:48.620 to defend
00:29:49.200 or oppose the rule of law.
00:29:51.180 And I think we've seen
00:29:52.060 where this government
00:29:52.760 lies on this.
00:29:53.960 We're always going
00:29:54.740 to be upholding
00:29:55.540 the rule of law.
00:29:56.700 That's what we're here for.
00:29:57.960 Head on over to tnc.news,
00:30:00.400 and if you care to join
00:30:01.780 the Andrew Lawton Heritage Club,
00:30:03.680 you can get some goodies
00:30:04.460 and support the work
00:30:05.540 that we're doing
00:30:06.640 month after month,
00:30:07.520 and we've got some
00:30:08.280 big stuff coming up.
00:30:09.800 Andrew Lawton here
00:30:10.480 for True North.
00:30:11.240 Thank you.
00:30:11.860 God bless.
00:30:12.580 Good day, Canada.