Juno News - U.S. suspends key defence ties with Canada

00:00:00.000 well the pentagon says canada is all talk and no action when it comes to defense spending

00:00:09.360 the main reason why it is suspending a long-standing bilateral defense advisory board

00:00:15.480 read the story at junonews.com americans have pressed pause on the u.s canada defense board

00:00:23.260 the canadian government had this reaction there's lots of cooperation we will continue to do so

00:00:28.940 But we will also be cooperating with other partners and diversifying our defense cooperation, as we should as a member of NATO.

00:00:38.600 For 86 years, the board has worked towards Arctic security and continental defense planning.

00:00:45.600 The U.S. says Canada has failed to carry its own weight.

00:00:48.560 The U.S. Undersecretary of War, Elbridge Colby, says a strong Canada that prioritizes hard power over rhetoric benefits us all.

00:01:00.640 Unfortunately, Canada has failed to make credible progress on its defense commitments.

00:01:06.640 Colby, citing the divisive rhetoric from Canadian officials, some analysts say it's a direct rebuke to Prime Minister Carney's Davos speech.

00:01:17.700 Carney also drew the ire of the Trump administration when it signed a strategic partnership with

00:01:22.960 China and agreed to import Chinese-made electric vehicles to Canada.

00:01:27.280 Our guest today is Joe Varner, senior fellow at the McDonnell-Laurier Institute.

00:01:32.100 Welcome, Joe.

00:01:33.560 Great to be with you again, Mark.

00:01:35.640 All right.

00:01:35.920 What do you make of this latest move by the United States?

00:01:39.440 Well, from my perspective, this is kind of a warning shot at the Canadian government

00:01:44.320 to actually get moving on on that defense and and the canadian government's been you know taking it

00:01:50.320 sweet a good loving time to do whatever it is that they're trying to do but the fact of the matter is

00:01:55.840 the united states patients have run out and this has been coming down through several administrations

00:02:01.680 you know it started with obama and then and uh trump and then then uh biden and now back to trump

00:02:10.500 And so, you know, could Canada and the United States live without the Permanent Joint Board on Defense?

00:02:17.480 Sure, they could.

00:02:18.820 Do they really want to?

00:02:20.280 Well, that's a bigger question.

00:02:21.920 Should it be reformed?

00:02:24.040 But, you know, we can't live without NORAD.

00:02:27.360 It would be very difficult to be out of the five eyes.

00:02:31.120 It would be very difficult to find our position in NATO, compromise even further, or a position in the G7.

00:02:37.940 So this is kind of the, this is ladder, the round one in the ladder of escalation for the Americans to tell Canada, you know, enough's enough.

00:02:48.080 Get a hold of it.

00:02:49.220 But NORAD is of strategic importance to the Americans, really.

00:02:53.860 I mean, if the missiles are going to fly from Russia, they're going to go over the Arctic and they're going to go over Canada before they ever hit Washington, D.C.

00:03:03.960 Do you see NORAD as maybe being on the bubble here?

00:03:07.940 Well, I think it depends on what Canada does. For more than a decade, almost two, we've dragged our feet on NORAD modernization, and the government says that it's getting on with it now and that they're spending money on over-the-horizon radar.

00:03:25.020 but this has really been years and years and years and the fact of the matter is dithering on f-35

00:03:31.560 the most advanced uh fighter aircraft in the world uh doesn't help our case and the suggestion

00:03:38.360 then that we're going to buy maybe a lesser aircraft in the grip and from sob and the same

00:03:43.940 with uh AWACS or early warning aircraft uh the americans you know or the world leaders

00:03:50.640 in early warning aircraft.

00:03:53.560 Canada has a choice to make between the American aircraft

00:03:56.520 and a Saab-Mombardia aircraft,

00:03:59.980 and it seems like the government wants the Saab-Mombardia aircraft.

00:04:04.580 We're not doing ourselves any favors on NORAD, you know,

00:04:08.660 and we're not doing ourselves any favors by pretending to spend 2%

00:04:13.820 by including the Canadian Coast Guard and, you know,

00:04:18.500 the Transport Canada Challenger fleet in our defense spending to meet the 2% NATO commitment.

00:04:25.200 We're not doing ourselves any favors with our allies.

00:04:27.880 We're not doing ourselves any favors with the United States.

00:04:30.980 Yeah, the 2% is where I was going to go next, which is the suggestion by Canadian officials

00:04:36.000 that where we've reached the 2% spending targets, I mean, it's what we said we would do.

00:04:41.220 We've committed to that.

00:04:42.480 What's the problem?

00:04:44.500 Well, I think the problem is about $22 to $24 billion of that defense spending,

00:04:50.500 defense spending allegedly is in other government departments. It doesn't come into combat

00:04:58.100 capability. It doesn't make the Canadian forces any more lethal. So we've given everybody a great

00:05:04.180 big raise, which is excellent and was much needed. We've, we put a series of personnel

00:05:09.540 policies in in place uh to help with recruitment retention but in terms of of actually spending

00:05:20.260 money on combat systems and actually rearming the canadian forces with some sense of urgency

00:05:27.240 like our allies are doing in europe uh or the or the united states canada's not doing that

00:05:33.520 we're taking our you know our good time and and we look like tortoises for the rest of the alliance

00:05:40.940 as we're kind of you know taking our time and maybe we should do this and maybe we should do

00:05:47.100 that and maybe we should get european stuff uh anywhere in the world that the canadian forces

00:05:52.420 are going to go they're going to go with the united states in my opinion and we want american

00:05:57.220 spare parts. And so, you know, buying abroad, having these long drawn out competitions that

00:06:04.860 take, you know, 15, 20 years, it's just not on anymore. It's not sustainable.

00:06:10.440 Are the Americans aware of the non-Canadian component of our armed forces staffing

00:06:15.540 that has come about in part because of changes that we've made to the requirements? And could

00:06:24.340 that be a problem in terms of how the americans see us as a credible fighting force well look you

00:06:32.740 know uh any air forces that's down 15 or any military units that's that's down 15 of its

00:06:40.660 its personnel as we were in the last couple years uh is considered ineffective as a combat unit

00:06:48.020 and so the canadian forces were down over 15 of its force and so you know judge as you will how

00:06:54.660 our allies would view that but i don't think they'd have a lot of confidence in us the fact

00:06:59.380 that canada made the commitment to lead the brigade group in latvia and it's taking the

00:07:04.660 entire canadian army to try and do that and we lack the basic equipment that most western

00:07:10.500 armies have uh for that brigade and and the vehicles showed up uh ineffective and unserviceable

00:07:20.060 and and and needed to be fixed in theater and and even training had to be done in theater because

00:07:25.800 there was no money to train at home uh really leaves an impression on our allies we've missed

00:07:31.740 nato missions we'd missed nato exercises you know we used to be a leader in keeping the standard

00:07:38.500 uh a standing uh naval force uh afloat um there was always canadian worship in it that's not

00:07:46.100 always the case now uh canada really has fallen behind and you know the canadian government talks

00:07:53.460 a good game we we say you know we're punching above our weight and we're doing this and we're

00:07:59.060 doing that but in in reality we're not and you know they're starting to see documents fly around

00:08:04.900 that now say instead of five eyes in terms of the five eyes intelligence community you now say three

00:08:10.820 eyes uh canada and new zealand are left up why because we really don't contribute the way we

00:08:18.900 should and and quite frankly i think not trusted the way we once were yeah i mean we've had the

00:08:24.820 chinese spying issues of course that has gone public that was international news and of course

00:08:31.780 the government never came clean on who uh was actually a spy you know you know a certain

00:08:38.900 component of our parliamentarians serving the interests of some other country i mean it seems

00:08:45.140 outrageous does that play a role in the level of trust that our allies have for us well it certainly

00:08:52.740 does and it certainly has an impact on the united states when the when the prime minister goes to

00:08:57.780 china uh signs a big strategic partnership because they want to make hay on donald trump

00:09:05.060 and think they're going to score points with canadian voters all well and good

00:09:09.380 but you're going to pay a price for that with the united states and some of your other allies 0.87

00:09:13.940 when when the canadian government hedges on on whether or not we're going to call out china on

00:09:19.460 rough intercepts of our patrol aircraft in the pacific uh when the when the government you know

00:09:25.860 refuses to comment on whether we're going to continue to do uh uh freedom of navigation

00:09:32.340 operations in the strait of taiwan when the government refuses to comment on on chinese

00:09:38.660 forced labor uh we certainly make an impression on our allies and we've made an impression on

00:09:44.500 the united states we've you know the prime minister gave his davos speech which i think

00:09:49.060 was a disaster and when he got to china he announced that we were you know going to be 0.99

00:09:57.140 part of the new world order that's all china speak that's right out of beijing's playbook 0.90

00:10:03.060 it couldn't be much worse what's carney thinking i mean you'd almost think that he was looking for 0.70

00:10:11.620 a rupture with the americans looking to distance himself from that country and kind of being

00:10:19.300 oblivious to our geography and traditional ties to america do you have any idea what he's

00:10:28.100 thinking what this strategy behind his actions could be well i think that the prime minister

00:10:34.340 is following the liberal playbook of justin trudeau and it's a tried tested and true playbook

00:10:40.580 look, he wants to fight an election campaign against Donald Trump.

00:10:44.820 He doesn't want to fight it against a Canadian conservative leader.

00:10:48.760 And, you know, if you can, you know,

00:10:51.160 rush the conservatives in the same way that you would rush the Trump

00:10:55.480 administration and paint that sort of picture to Canadians,

00:10:58.960 that's what the government wants to do.

00:11:01.020 This government has not been serious about defense spending,

00:11:04.400 and it's not serious about re-equipping the Canadian forces.

00:11:07.400 and you know right now if if the government really wanted to do something they would take

00:11:14.960 up the challenge of trying to modernize or refresh the permanent joint board on defense

00:11:21.960 and you know i don't see that happening i mean we're talking f-35s and that sort of thing

00:11:29.000 i mean there was a contract last time i heard the thought there was a contract to buy how many of

00:11:34.620 these aircraft 10 and then there was talk yeah there's been two contracts now and i think it's

00:11:40.720 it's it's a couple dozen aircraft now uh but you know the the plan was to replace i think around

00:11:47.720 88 uh cf-18s uh with a with a slightly lesser number and uh you know we've we've dragged our

00:11:56.980 foot on that you know the trudeau government came to power saying they're going to scrap the program

00:12:01.240 and waited until just a couple of years ago

00:12:05.780 to say, yeah, F-35 won the competition.

00:12:09.640 Now they're saying, wow, we might let someone else in

00:12:12.260 like Saab with the Griffin.

00:12:15.560 You know, it's not a good way to do business.

00:12:18.900 You know, if you're thinking of spending billions of dollars

00:12:22.400 to invest in Canadian defense production

00:12:26.360 or Canadian defense program competition,

00:12:31.240 probably got to give yourself a second to shake your head

00:12:35.180 because, you know, the procurement process in this country

00:12:39.020 seems to be whatever the prime minister says it is.

00:12:42.040 It doesn't seem to follow the normal rules.

00:12:44.560 It doesn't seem to even follow foreign military sales,

00:12:48.180 which is a form of directed sale.

00:12:51.780 We've seen this with Ukraine, and we've seen, you know,

00:12:56.440 whenever the prime minister has to go meet the president

00:12:58.880 of the United States, whether it was Biden or Trump,

00:13:01.240 and we know that they're wearing the daddy pants that day uh all of a sudden canada you know makes

00:13:07.040 some sort of announcement out of fresh air that we're going to buy you know an air air defense

00:13:12.240 system or we're going to do this or we're going to do that um i don't even imagine that there's

00:13:17.800 been a treasure port smushing yeah i mean you add that to the state of our finances which is pretty 0.91

00:13:25.040 pathetic. I mean, the level of debt, the fact that we're nowhere near an answer of balancing the

00:13:31.940 books. And he throws this other aspect in, which is regarding defense spending, to your point,

00:13:40.280 the days, Canada's days of spending 70 cents of every dollar on American contractors are over.

00:13:47.020 So he's already throwing down the gauntlet. And I mean, where does it go? What's the

00:13:54.880 end game here i guess that's my question here cozying up to the chinese i mean it just doesn't 1.00

00:14:02.960 seem to make sense unless he's got an agenda that he's not sharing with the rest of us 0.58

00:14:08.320 yeah it's not clear what the prime minister's agenda is i mean first it was let's cozy up the

00:14:13.920 europeans way to deal with the europeans and then it's now cozy up for the chinese

00:14:19.680 and the government's cozying up to the chinese um but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself 0.74

00:14:26.480 if that makes sense for canada at its national interest and its national security and it doesn't

00:14:32.480 and we've got a prime minister that seems to like to jet around the world um on the taxpayer dime

00:14:38.720 but never seems to come home with uh with any goodies with any epic deal sign with any uh great

00:14:45.920 news uh with with the exception that we now have a you know a strategic agreement with china

00:14:52.080 that's going to allow sharing of information with the chinese police and you know surely

00:14:57.280 there are no dangers in that uh if you remember the chinese diaspora in this country and you're

00:15:03.280 an opponent of the regime you got to be a little bit worried about where the prime minister and

00:15:07.040 the government are going i mean you know i've been watching this this fiasco on on the uh

00:15:12.400 snowbirds we'll see what happens today but you know the fact of the matter is the government's

00:15:19.520 had 16 years to deal with this and had 16 years to fix this problem they knew that the aircraft

00:15:26.080 was running out of time they knew that canadians valued the snowbirds and they they knew that it

00:15:33.440 was a it was a kind of a national treasure that ballet that they do in the sky with with all the

00:15:39.760 precision and all all the color and and the fact of the matter is the government has let that

00:15:45.200 capability uh go to the end of its uh the life of the aircraft and that's very unfortunate

00:15:52.240 yeah and on top of it all there's the kuzma deal which the deadline of course is creeping

00:15:57.360 ever closer and i mean it just seems like when you factor all of the things that have been going on

00:16:04.800 things that have been said now this latest rupture if you want to call it that i mean it doesn't bode

00:16:11.680 well for continuing this huzma deal which mr kearney himself has cited as you know the best

00:16:19.440 deal that anybody could get in our circumstances and so that's another cloud on the horizon isn't

00:16:25.200 it well it is and and you can see that the government is is you know building the narrative

00:16:31.280 that we can't get a deal and won't get a deal and preparing the country and the voters for

00:16:40.240 a massive failure. And from my perspective, that's what it looks like. And when I talk to people that

00:16:47.680 I know in Washington, they tell me that the Mexicans have done all kinds of things to lay

00:16:53.380 the groundwork. I'm told that Canada has done nothing to lay the groundwork for successful

00:16:58.600 trade negotiations. And if you were going to go into trade negotiations, you certainly wouldn't

00:17:03.760 go into trade negotiations saying that you were a new strategic partner of China, that you were

00:17:11.200 going to buy European military goods, not American military goods, that you wouldn't come out with

00:17:18.800 a defense procurement strategy, which in my opinion is patently anti-American. And so we're doing all

00:17:26.940 the things we can to see these trade talks get scuppered. Yeah, I mean, there seems to be an

00:17:33.580 element of confrontation to everything that the Karne government does as far as the Trump

00:17:40.120 administration does. I understand they're not happy. They don't like the tariffs. They don't

00:17:46.060 like the Trump administration. And so their approach seems to be, so we're going to stick

00:17:53.160 you in the eye every time we think you're sticking us in the eye you know an eye for an eye it's just 0.99

00:17:58.840 not going to work when you're dealing with a country that's has you know 10 times the size of

00:18:03.000 your economy it's just you know different weight class you have to respect the weight class

00:18:10.760 difference and yet you're still in the ring with this person right so i'm just not sure that trading

00:18:16.840 punches with somebody that much bigger is going to serve the interests of Canada. And it's hard

00:18:25.100 to see where this is going. If, to your point earlier, this is all political, I think at some

00:18:30.500 point, isn't there a law of diminishing returns as far as Trump's the boogeyman goes? I mean,

00:18:36.860 is that all they've got? And do they realize that eventually people are going to get tired of

00:18:41.660 hearing that? I think that they probably are gambling that that's not the case. They seem to

00:18:48.700 go home to mama in terms of their playbook. And, you know, there's this old saying that Canadians 0.98

00:18:56.720 aren't patriotic until we play the Americans at hockey. And then, of course, we're all Canadian

00:19:02.860 nationalists. And I think that there's probably some truth to that in that, you know, there's

00:19:09.440 this anti-American sentiment that the government seems to have tapped into and that the Trudeau

00:19:14.120 government tapped into, thinking that it's going to, you know, keep them in power for forever. And,

00:19:20.040 and, you know, it's going to be a real tragedy for the Liberal Party of Canada the day that

00:19:25.600 there's another democratic president in the White House, because they're going to have to actually

00:19:31.020 cuddle up to them again. And, you know, hope that Canadians forget about elbows up and everything

00:19:37.380 uh in the past and you know it's it's great to dislike donald trump but you can't dislike donald

00:19:44.160 trump at the expense of your own national security your own national interest and geography has

00:19:49.560 placed us next to the united states we've integrated trade we have an integrated defense

00:19:55.600 we've integrated intelligence uh we've we've done everything our populations watch the same

00:20:02.440 television shows uh we mix each other's news uh we we travel back and forth not as much as we used

00:20:10.160 to uh but but you know we've been friends and allies for a long time and 1939 when they formed

00:20:17.860 the permanent joint board on defense uh both canada and and the united states had war plans

00:20:23.980 to invade each other uh that hasn't been the case for a long time and i just think that you know

00:20:31.480 Canadians have to really start to look at what's being said and what the government is doing

00:20:37.840 in terms of our national security and show some concern. Yeah, I think we've taken the

00:20:45.400 Americans for granted for an awfully long time, and now they're saying, well, you know, that's

00:20:50.740 going to stop. Last word to you, Joe. You know what? Last word, if the government of Canada

00:20:58.760 really wants to do something i think they should get on with f-35 and i think they should get on

00:21:04.140 with with uh an american awax aircraft joe varner thank you so much for coming on the show we

00:21:10.520 appreciate it thank you if you enjoyed this show consider supporting great independent journalism

00:21:16.300 by becoming a premier member of juno news please go to junonews.com backslash straight up you can

00:21:23.520 find the link below helps us do what we do thank you so much we'll we'll see you next time

00:21:28.760 You

Juno News - May 20, 2026

U.S. suspends key defence ties with Canada

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