Juno News - UK’s Free Speech Crackdown： Arrests for Words, Banned Flags, and Digital Shackles

00:00:00.000 Two years. I am looking at two years in prison for leading chance of deport, stop the boats and send them home. 0.70

00:00:08.140 The only reason they are doing this right now, the only reason they are attacking political dissidents and journalists is because they want to silence us.

00:00:14.460 And they're not going to silence us. We are fighting back for free speech.

00:00:18.220 Speech is definitely a theme on my show of late.

00:00:22.100 I'm Melanie Bennett for True North. I'm here in Norwich at Riverside.

00:00:26.100 I'm about to meet a British patriot who has been involved in the anti-migrant movements, but he's also an independent journalist and he's been involved in covering many of the stories across the country, but also here in NARCH.

00:00:38.400 And we've had a few conversations and I really thought it'd be interesting to bring his perspective to you.

00:00:43.360 There are so many similarities between Britain and Canada, and I think you're going to find that too.

00:00:49.460 For True North, I'm Melanie Bennett.

00:00:56.100 I'm here with James Harvey. I've been wanting to talk to you for quite some time.

00:01:05.000 So just to start off the conversation, one of the things I find most interesting, you were the first person I actually reached out to when I was coming to NARCH,

00:01:11.960 because I've noticed you're an independent journalist for Vox Populi, who go around covering all of these different migrant protests, but also other political issues, right?

00:01:22.960 And you guys have been covering and participating in the migrant protests here in NARCH.

00:01:27.340 Yeah.

00:01:27.740 So there's been some issues with that, but maybe we'll get into it.

00:01:30.840 But can you just sort of describe in your own words what you've been up to?

00:01:35.340 Well, so, I mean, let's go way, way back, right?

00:01:38.300 So I'm not just an investigative journalist.

00:01:40.680 I actually started as an activist.

00:01:42.280 I started when I founded Students Against Tyranny.

00:01:44.620 And then from there, I kind of got involved with Unity News Network, Voice of Wales.

00:01:49.340 And after moving out of Wales, I then got involved with Vox Populi, Urban Scoop, and those other organizations.

00:01:55.160 And I'm kind of an independent activist as well.

00:01:57.800 But I think I was talking to you about this.

00:01:59.140 I know journalists are meant to be kind of in the middle, neutral and impartial, but from my experience and the kind of work that I do, what I cover, by being a journalist, you're also an activist, right?

00:02:11.980 Yeah, you asked me that, and I didn't know how to respond to it.

00:02:14.220 Was I an activist?

00:02:14.980 That's a tough question.

00:02:15.980 It is.

00:02:16.680 But, I mean, if you look at something like Tommy Robinson, right, the kind of journalism he does, where he exposes migrant gangs, but then he also organizes massive marches to showcase his documentaries, I would also consider that activism.

00:02:28.620 So, it's a very kind of fine line.

00:02:30.820 But my heart these days is kind of drifting more towards journalism.

00:02:35.140 I'm absolutely in love with journalism, investigative journalism.

00:02:38.020 There's a few big projects that I'm working on at the moment, you know, from Edinburgh and stuff like that.

00:02:42.620 But, yeah, my heart's kind of dwindling more towards journalism.

00:02:45.940 But you've had consequences for your journalism.

00:02:48.940 Absolutely.

00:02:49.660 I mean, you know, if we go back two, three years ago, you know, talking about migrant hotels, we used to expose a lot of the migrant hotels in Wales.

00:02:56.460 And the way we do this is actually quite easy.

00:02:58.500 Anyone can do it at home.

00:02:59.700 And it's literally, you'd go online, you'd find out hotels near you, and you'd find out which one is closed permanently or indefinitely.

00:03:07.500 Those are the ones typically that are being used to house illegal immigrants, right? 0.97

00:03:10.900 So, we'd actually go to these hotels, and the way we'd find out is it's easy.

00:03:16.020 You know, you'd see security at the front.

00:03:17.580 That's how you'd know it's a migrant hotel.

00:03:19.080 And then we'd go and confront them, security.

00:03:20.280 We'd go to have a conversation with them.

00:03:21.340 And I remember one time I referred to illegal immigrants at one of these hotels as undocumented aliens, which is quite politically correct. 1.00

00:03:28.580 I'm not sure if it's the same in Canada.

00:03:30.000 I know it is in America, but aliens means immigrants.

00:03:32.960 I've never heard that people use that in Britain.

00:03:35.300 That tends to be an American term.

00:03:36.500 Canadians don't use it so much.

00:03:37.540 Yeah, right.

00:03:38.060 So, it's a legal term for immigrants, aliens, right?

00:03:41.900 But I was concerned.

00:03:42.460 Not of this country.

00:03:43.860 Yeah.

00:03:44.300 Yeah, not of this country.

00:03:45.240 Different.

00:03:45.900 You know, that's why alien means extraterrestrial.

00:03:47.720 It means different.

00:03:48.160 And I remember getting a phone call.

00:03:50.840 Well, I didn't get a phone call.

00:03:52.160 The police turned up at my parents' house.

00:03:54.000 I didn't know what it was about.

00:03:56.040 So, I'd rung up 101.

00:03:58.100 This was all filmed and posted on the Bad Law Team's Twitter.

00:04:02.720 I rung up 101 and they connected me with the officer in question.

00:04:06.580 Turns out they had what you call local intel officers, which is a big thing here in the UK.

00:04:11.520 Local intel officers who basically watched my video and no one had complained about…

00:04:17.340 Are they police?

00:04:18.180 Is this part of the police?

00:04:18.940 Yeah, so they're employed by the police.

00:04:20.680 They're paid by the taxpayer.

00:04:22.260 And their entire job is to watch people like mine's content, etc.

00:04:25.760 You know, local content.

00:04:27.720 So, naughty social media.

00:04:28.900 Naughty social media.

00:04:29.860 That's a perfect way of describing them, right?

00:04:32.620 And no one had actually complained about me saying undocumented aliens.

00:04:36.180 Because, like, I'm just watching a video now.

00:04:37.320 You're going to have to take that down.

00:04:38.700 And I said, well, what about all the people calling me a Nazi?

00:04:40.860 Yeah.

00:04:41.100 Every day on Twitter.

00:04:41.720 And he backtracked quite quickly.

00:04:42.780 So, you know, we've had this kind of back and forwards with the police for quite a while in the UK in terms of them being very, very, very anti-free speech.

00:04:52.660 Policing your thoughts, policing your opinions.

00:04:55.400 And, you know, it's kind of accumulated in what happened recently where loads of us in Norwich, in Epping, in Autreconum, etc.

00:05:02.760 have been charged, have been arrested and charged for social media posts or for saying words.

00:05:07.980 Okay, so let's get on to that, because one of the first conversations I had with you was about how you were arrested on the basis of your speech and now facing charges.

00:05:15.820 And I was hoping that you might describe that.

00:05:17.120 But I wasn't aware that this was across the other, more well-known protests like Epping.

00:05:22.080 Oh.

00:05:23.960 I mean, in protests like Epping, right, it's a little bit different.

00:05:28.360 What police are doing these days is they've got the Public Order Act.

00:05:31.960 And the Public Order Act is one of the main ways they control your free speech and your right to protest, right?

00:05:37.720 So in Epping, for example, they've passed something called Section 14.

00:05:41.960 And the Section 14 basically says that you've got to protest inside a designated protest area.

00:05:47.140 You've got to finish at a certain time.

00:05:49.840 And if you don't, you will be arrested.

00:05:51.900 So we saw that in Norwich on Sunday where they'd separated the protesters, the protesters and counter-protesters, and they were completely separated, even by a plastic barrier.

00:06:01.140 Like there was no contact between them whatsoever.

00:06:03.280 They're not allowed to these days, right?

00:06:05.580 So like in Epping, there was a woman called Sarah who flew a British flag outside the designated protest area.

00:06:13.420 She was arrested and charged. 0.58

00:06:15.100 And she's looking at prison time for that, right?

00:06:17.300 I went to a protest recently in Colchester and Braintree where, was it, the police, they'd never been, I mean, there has been protests up there before, but there's never been any issues.

00:06:26.980 There's never been any trouble.

00:06:27.860 They passed the Section 14, despite there not being grounds to do so, right?

00:06:33.960 And we were told if we did not protest inside the designated protest area, if we did not give speeches inside that area, we would be arrested, right?

00:06:40.760 So it's kind of a big thing at the moment, and now they're doing it in Norwich, right?

00:06:44.060 So they've got a way of controlling the protest, and then they've got a way of controlling your speech.

00:06:47.760 The way they control your speech is through Section 4A, right?

00:06:50.920 So Section 4A is intent to cause alarm and distress, right?

00:06:54.860 So you don't even need to cause alarm and distress, really.

00:06:57.240 Intent to cause alarm and distress, okay.

00:07:00.240 So they don't need evidence if you're causing alarm and distress.

00:07:04.260 They just need your intent to do so.

00:07:05.320 How do they know your intent?

00:07:07.420 This is the difficult thing.

00:07:08.600 They've got to prove.

00:07:09.600 Well, it's not about proving what your intent is.

00:07:12.400 It's more about proving what you were going to say, right?

00:07:14.240 So, like I said, foreign filth. 1.00

00:07:17.160 Yeah. 0.96

00:07:17.720 So that's what I said.

00:07:18.720 I mean, if we go...

00:07:19.420 Because let's be honest, you were rude at the end of the day.

00:07:21.860 Your speech was rude, but it's still speech.

00:07:24.560 It's impolite speech, I think, as Ezra would put it, Ezra Levant.

00:07:27.720 I think I've heard him say that.

00:07:28.800 Oh, no, David Menzies as well.

00:07:30.740 But it's not the nicest speech, but at the end of the day, it is, in fact, speech.

00:07:36.180 Like, from what I understand, you weren't necessarily inciting violence.

00:07:39.140 It's not what you were...

00:07:39.940 No, I mean, so the entire back story to that was I was at a protest in Dix at a park hotel.

00:07:45.000 Now, that hotel was another one me and my girlfriend exposed two years ago, right?

00:07:50.880 And at that hotel, originally it was housed in women and kids, which is why I never organized a protest. 1.00

00:07:56.360 Because, to be honest with you, I'm more accepting of women and kids if they're immigrants, right?

00:08:01.040 I'm fine with that.

00:08:02.520 Well, just to put in some context, with the migrant hotels, as far as I understand, there are two in NARVS.

00:08:06.460 There's one which is all males, which will have all the protests, and one that has women and children.

00:08:10.680 And I don't think anyone's protesting yet.

00:08:12.660 No, no, it's not an issue with us.

00:08:14.080 There's a more...

00:08:14.920 To us, there's a lot of what you consider refugees more than the all men that come over.

00:08:19.740 Yeah.

00:08:19.940 And I think they're saying, what is it, 75% of the...

00:08:22.740 I think it's more, realistically, that coming over are men, right?

00:08:27.980 You will never...

00:08:28.740 It's very rare to see women and kids coming over, right?

00:08:30.940 Yeah.

00:08:32.700 But, what is it?

00:08:33.840 So, we...

00:08:34.880 Your speech.

00:08:36.060 I want to know about your speech crimes.

00:08:37.600 Well, this is it, right?

00:08:38.440 So, they were going to take the women and kids out of the hotel, and they were going to replace them with all men. 0.99

00:08:42.180 Now, this is a very old community.

00:08:43.780 So, we thought, you know, well, I didn't think this, but it was fought by the locals.

00:08:46.820 Let's organize a protest.

00:08:47.940 Over 150 turned up.

00:08:49.760 I went there.

00:08:50.840 I went there in the capacity of an activist that day.

00:08:52.920 I wasn't planning on giving any speeches, but I brought down the PA system, and because the guys who were organizing it were kind of newbies, I kind of ended up, you know, hosting the demo on the speaker, right? 0.94

00:09:06.920 Now, I remember hearing something from the left that white people rape as well. 0.93

00:09:10.200 And that kind of... 1.00

00:09:10.760 That always gets to me, because, yes, white people rape as well, but this is a white country. 1.00

00:09:14.180 Yeah. 1.00

00:09:14.520 You're going to have white people committing rape, and we do have a massive issue in this country with white people committing rape. 1.00

00:09:18.580 But if that's the case, why do we need to import more of the same? 1.00

00:09:21.440 Just because white people rape in a white country, why do we need to import more illegal immigrants who continue on with the same exact same behavior? 1.00

00:09:30.380 So, when I said foreign filth, I was on about those coming over in boats who rape our kids, right? 1.00

00:09:35.720 If anyone watching this at home considers pedophiles from abroad to be... 1.00

00:09:40.500 Pedophiles to be filth, you know... 0.98

00:09:42.980 They had the argument that because Britain has pedophiles, then we should import... 0.99

00:09:46.300 Well, we should allow migrant pedophiles to also be in Britain. 1.00

00:09:49.200 Yeah, I don't believe that. 0.85

00:09:50.240 Equal rights.

00:09:50.680 Exactly.

00:09:51.180 I don't believe that, and that's what I'm saying.

00:09:52.940 So, that's the foreign filth part. 1.00

00:09:54.440 But they said that I was intending on causing alarm and distress.

00:09:57.340 But this is the thing.

00:09:58.320 So, I got the initial details of the prosecution case.

00:10:01.040 And in that, there was no victim statements.

00:10:04.020 None.

00:10:04.600 But let's just be clear.

00:10:05.640 You're facing two years in prison.

00:10:07.740 Originally.

00:10:08.800 So, you're no longer?

00:10:09.660 No.

00:10:09.960 Okay.

00:10:10.200 So, originally, I was facing two years in prison, charged with Section 4A of the, you know,

00:10:15.860 Crime and Disorder Act.

00:10:17.100 And in Section 4A, that's a two-year prison sentence.

00:10:20.500 So, if you get charged with that, which can literally be for something like,

00:10:23.840 you're not English anymore at police officers.

00:10:27.020 There was a man who went down for 18 months for that.

00:10:28.740 I believe it was 18 months, anyway.

00:10:29.820 For saying, you're not English anymore?

00:10:31.180 To police officers.

00:10:32.020 Yeah.

00:10:32.660 So, you know, that's the main section they like charging people with.

00:10:35.940 And then you've got Section 14 as well, which controls protests.

00:10:38.520 So, in this country, you don't have a right to free speech.

00:10:41.840 You don't have a right to your own opinion.

00:10:43.640 You don't have a right to freedom of expression.

00:10:45.600 You don't have a right to protest.

00:10:48.520 They control these protests.

00:10:50.480 And, you know, that's something...

00:10:52.020 So, these are...

00:10:52.400 All the things that you're naming, just to be very clear, these are the fundamentals of a liberal democratic society.

00:10:59.040 Yes.

00:10:59.540 The freedom of association, the freedom of expression, the freedom to be treated...

00:11:06.680 It's not really freedom, but to be treated equally under the law.

00:11:10.060 Yeah.

00:11:10.360 So, all of these things are the fundamental principles of liberty.

00:11:14.880 Exactly.

00:11:15.120 And these are the things that are now being controlled.

00:11:17.280 Is that what you're saying?

00:11:17.920 Is that fair today?

00:11:18.680 Yes.

00:11:19.040 I mean, you have these in the Constitution in America.

00:11:21.780 But what a lot of people forget is that not just the Constitution in America, but the New Zealand one as well, they were based off the English Constitution.

00:11:28.440 We've got our own Constitution spread among many different...

00:11:31.160 Well, it's an unwritten Constitution of the Magna Carta.

00:11:33.760 Magna Carta, Bill of Rights.

00:11:34.700 Which gives Englishmen all of these rights. 0.65

00:11:36.460 Yeah.

00:11:36.740 Right?

00:11:37.300 Yeah.

00:11:37.820 And those are being eroded.

00:11:38.760 Yeah, well, the Magna Carta, if you were to use that in the courtroom these days, or the Bill of Rights, they would laugh at you.

00:11:45.720 Right?

00:11:46.060 Common law, you know, any of our constitutional rights, we don't have in the UK anymore.

00:11:51.580 They've been overwritten with tons of these new laws.

00:11:54.640 And the main one these days that they're using to infringe upon our freedoms is stuff like the Public Order Act, is stuff like the Crime and Disorder Act.

00:12:01.480 Right?

00:12:01.940 So, we don't really have any rights.

00:12:03.960 And the problem is, your speech becomes... So, it's more serious when it's racially aggravated.

00:12:09.900 So, I don't know if you've heard of that, racial aggravation?

00:12:11.900 Yeah.

00:12:12.440 So, racial aggravation is what they used against me.

00:12:14.640 They said, because your speech was motivated by race, ethnicity, religion, then it's classed as racial aggravation.

00:12:22.140 And because of that, it goes from a six-month prison sentence to a two-year one.

00:12:25.000 Yeah, so let's just be clear. We're not just talking about speech crimes.

00:12:27.440 We're talking about identity-aggravated speech crimes, which then holds, I imagine, a longer sentence, or a potential longer sentence.

00:12:36.880 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, talking about identity crimes, right, they've got...

00:12:40.860 So, you'll be aware, because I know you've been covering a bit of this, there are people going around Norwich at the moment who are putting up flags.

00:12:47.700 Yeah.

00:12:48.260 And that's not just Norwich, that's all over the UK.

00:12:50.180 I just want to add context. So, that's the razor flags. This is where English people are putting up England flags, mostly not the Union flag, mostly England, St. George's Cross, or Scottish people putting up the Scottish flag, or Welsh people putting up the Welsh flag to signify that they're protecting their country.

00:13:05.660 This is like a reassertion of a national identity.

00:13:09.960 We see the Palestine and Ukrainian flag everywhere, even over our council buildings.

00:13:13.240 And there's a trans flag just up the road.

00:13:15.900 So, you have every flag but the Union flag and the England flag everywhere, right?

00:13:19.320 So, people are going around taking our country back and they're putting up all of these England flags, these Union flags, these Welsh flags, these Scottish flags, and they're being vilified for it.

00:13:28.460 I know of two people in Norwich who have now been banned from being anywhere near a flag.

00:13:33.740 Well, I was told that along the Durham Road, close to the protest, there were all these flags, these St. George's Cross flags, that were put up on the road near the hotel.

00:13:41.940 And those were taken down, I believe, three times, it might be two, I think it's three, and every time the Patriot movement decided to put those flags back up even higher, they keep getting taken down.

00:13:50.960 So, those flags are not allowed to be flown, but that is the ancient flag of the English people.

00:13:55.620 I don't know exactly how old the St. George's Cross is.

00:13:59.380 I think it's over a thousand years old at this point.

00:14:01.760 It's a very old flag.

00:14:02.520 It really does designate English identity.

00:14:05.680 Now, I'll just add a little bit of context because there has been for some time this association with football hooliganism, and I think that possibly some people are willing to associate the St. George's Cross with racists because of this preconceived notion.

00:14:21.280 But that's not what's happening right now.

00:14:22.620 What's happening right now is a national renewal of people who are just trying to...

00:14:26.040 Find their identity.

00:14:26.860 They're trying to find their identity.

00:14:27.920 So, it's not that, but I see why it's easy for some people to look at that and think this is some kind of racist uprising, right?

00:14:39.320 I don't think that's going to be the case in the long run, but yet you are seeing people who are very willing to completely...

00:14:45.140 I mean, we saw a police officer, I believe it was in Liverpool, rip the flag off a 16-year-old girl just a few days ago, right?

00:14:53.160 And refused to give it back.

00:14:53.960 She wasn't near anybody.

00:14:55.140 She was just holding the flag.

00:14:56.220 She wasn't bothering anybody, but that police officer could not allow her to hold the flag of her country.

00:15:01.980 Yeah, so I was there at that demo.

00:15:03.580 There was a UKIP demo in Newcastle.

00:15:05.640 Then you had the advanced conference as well.

00:15:07.880 And so, just behind the police officer who ripped down the union flag, you had the communist flag, the trans flag, etc.

00:15:13.820 Did he rip those down?

00:15:14.620 No.

00:15:15.380 So, there's a massive thing at the moment where, you know, I mean, for example, they're calling us...

00:15:20.120 Their favorite term is to call us flag shaggers, right? 0.98

00:15:22.860 But this is coming from a group of people who has to have 50 flags to show off their sexual identity, right? 0.77

00:15:29.020 So, the idea that it can be racist to fly your own union flag, your own English flag, to me, is absolutely despicable. 0.88

00:15:39.980 Absolutely despicable.

00:15:41.300 But that's something we've seen a lot more of.

00:15:43.400 You know, so talking about the Section 4A intent to cause alarm and distress, you know it's also illegal to fly a union flag outside a mosque.

00:15:50.260 I did not know that.

00:15:52.600 Yeah, so if you went outside a mosque, for example, there's one in Durham Road.

00:15:56.040 If you went outside a mosque and you put up a flag, you know, put up your union flag... 0.65

00:16:00.780 Is it illegal to fly an Islamic flag in front of a church?

00:16:05.940 I mean, really...

00:16:06.820 Can you fly a Hamas flag in front of a church?

00:16:08.440 Not Hamas.

00:16:09.440 Technically, if it's prescribed, it's illegal.

00:16:11.680 But we've seen...

00:16:12.080 We see those everywhere, though.

00:16:13.060 Well, we've seen from countless times, I mean, in Luton, they're walking around doing these massive terrorism marches with ISIS flags.

00:16:19.900 And the police don't do anything.

00:16:21.120 It was actually down to Tommy during the EDL days to rip it off one of the Islamic protesters. 1.00

00:16:27.000 So, there is a...

00:16:28.180 I mean, while they say it's illegal because, you know, it's a prescribed terrorist organization, they do still allow it. 0.89

00:16:33.180 What you're saying is, and correct me if I'm wrong, they're acting upon one side but not necessarily the other.

00:16:38.640 Yes, but that's deliberate.

00:16:40.020 I mean, you may have seen it as well.

00:16:41.360 I think we were talking about this earlier.

00:16:43.060 But what they do is...

00:16:44.560 So, you know, we talk about Hegelian dialect, problem, reaction, solution.

00:16:47.520 What they do is, if they target one side, say, the right wing, they target the right wing for free speech, for things they say online,

00:16:53.680 and then people go, oh, well, Narendra Carr said something who was similar.

00:16:57.080 Why wasn't she arrested?

00:16:58.340 And so, you've now got the right wing who are notoriously pro-free speech arguing against free speech.

00:17:03.560 So, that's how they do it, right?

00:17:05.320 They target one side, now the other side.

00:17:07.500 Now they're arguing for anti-free speech laws against the other side, right?

00:17:11.360 So, there is a massive, that's what they do and that's the reason they do it, yeah.

00:17:14.860 Well, there is a movement in England, not just among activist class or working class, people who feel like they're not being heard, to have more freedom of expression.

00:17:23.560 So, that exists.

00:17:24.160 But, do you get a sense that that's pretty common throughout the entire country?

00:17:30.360 Because here in Norwich, just to give a bit of context, Norwich is quite middle class, quite polite for the most part.

00:17:38.980 Not everywhere, but it has this era, like, progressivism and liberalism is very well accepted for the most part.

00:17:46.460 I mean, that might be changing in some ways, but that is the general gist of Norwich.

00:17:49.860 People don't like to be confrontational, people kind of want to go with the flow, right?

00:17:53.980 Do you feel that there's a sense that the wider population are fed up?

00:17:58.640 Like, they do actually want to be able to speak their minds, they don't want to be arrested on the basis of their speech.

00:18:02.440 Are you feeling that perhaps many of the people are like, well, maybe you shouldn't have been impolite?

00:18:07.460 I think the majority in the UK at the moment is very much on our side.

00:18:11.760 And it's been that way for a while, but finally the British people are finding their voice.

00:18:15.540 The reason that you hear about the left all the time is because they are a very vocal but very small community.

00:18:21.240 I mean, we saw in London, there was, what we estimated was about 400,000 people, you know, who marched for Unite the Kingdom.

00:18:27.640 And the opposition was about 5,000.

00:18:30.820 There is a lot more.

00:18:32.780 I mean, it depends, right?

00:18:36.800 Because when our universities, we're getting a lot more left-wing students.

00:18:40.400 But those people eventually grow up, they get a job, and they stop being, you know, socialists.

00:18:45.120 Maybe.

00:18:45.960 I'm a millennial who went to the UEA, the university here, and I most definitely was educated in a very progressive environmental career path.

00:18:54.360 And I held those progressive values.

00:18:56.540 I thought everybody believed the same thing as I did until I hit a wall.

00:18:58.800 But that's a whole other story.

00:18:59.580 We're not here for me.

00:19:00.660 But those are the kinds of people that end up in positions of authority.

00:19:04.140 What we see in Canada is the well-heeled university graduates who are among other people who believe the same that they do, and they assume everybody does.

00:19:12.060 And we see this with the Labour Party.

00:19:14.460 There seems to be the sense that they believe that they are correct, they are righteous, they know the true path, and everybody else is wrong.

00:19:22.080 And they have to impose that.

00:19:23.620 And we see that in Canada as well.

00:19:25.280 And these are the university-educated elites, you know.

00:19:29.800 So I'm just, I just wonder if it's enough that the people, because I get a sense.

00:19:36.980 I've been approached by many people.

00:19:38.540 When I talk to them, I tell them I'm a journalist, and all of a sudden they want to tell me about this stuff.

00:19:41.820 So when you're saying to me, the people are fed up, I've picked up on that.

00:19:46.580 So whilst Norwich is non-confrontational, and they're very polite at first, and they're sussing it out, as soon as they know that you're sympathetic, it all comes out.

00:19:55.640 But this is the issue.

00:19:57.120 And I think we were talking about this again earlier.

00:19:58.840 Like, I'll talk to anyone.

00:20:00.060 I don't care if you're left-wing, I don't care if you're right-wing, it doesn't matter to me.

00:20:03.300 Because we're constantly in this echo chamber, and we're talking to the same people, and they're getting out to the same audiences, right?

00:20:09.200 So we've got, in order to win, we have got to be able to have discourse and have a conversation with left-wing groups, organizations, media, etc.

00:20:19.220 This is what Charlie Kirk was all about.

00:20:21.860 You know, so a lot of people these days are very wary when it comes to talking to what they consider to be left-wing media outlets.

00:20:30.820 And while, you know, left-wing media outlets like the BBC do lie, it's important that we get our, we do speak to them, we don't run them away, because that just looks really bad, right?

00:20:41.900 So, I mean, yeah.

00:20:43.740 I want to talk on this discourse thing, because one of the things that happened at the protest is that I went to the police, I told the police who I was, what I was there for, that I was going to march with the marchers.

00:20:52.600 I was a journalist from Canada, and then as soon as I was done, I was going to go speak to the counter-protesters.

00:20:57.220 They said, no worries, I repeated the same thing at the beginning of the march with the other police.

00:21:00.500 I said, no worries.

00:21:01.540 And we did the march, I covered the protesters, I went straight to the counter-protesters, and I was stopped by a police officer who absolutely would not let me speak to the very isolated other group of people on the other side.

00:21:13.620 So, he went to talk to them to, I guess, ask their permission if they wanted to speak to me, and I think, okay, that's fine, I'm not here to put cameras in people's faces.

00:21:20.280 And I was told point blank that I was identified as being on the right or the right wing or the extreme right, I can't remember exactly what he said, and that they would not allow me to speak to the protesters.

00:21:29.500 Now, the local journalist who was there, he spoke to everybody, so I guess he had some kind of acceptability pass, but because some people had made some assumptions about who I was.

00:21:39.140 So, you talk about dialogue, and I do see that with, I hate to call it the right and the left, but let's call it the people who are involved in this patriot movement that I've spoken to so far, right?

00:21:51.160 I do see them wanting to engage in dialogue more.

00:21:55.140 Now, what will happen, and what did happen at the protest, is that they're also willing to speak their mind in an impolite fashion, and quite in a blunt fashion, and tell you they don't like you if they don't like you.

00:22:04.520 That's just the British, isn't it? 0.99

00:22:06.020 Yeah.

00:22:06.240 But that's not just the British, that's a certain kind of British, because then you have on the other side who would just refuse to speak to you at all, because they want to maintain some kind of, just, that's the echo chamber that needs to be maintained.

00:22:18.580 Yeah.

00:22:18.740 Right, so you talk about dialogue, and I hope, I hope for the dialogue, I agree with you that there needs to be more dialogue, but are you confident that that's possible?

00:22:27.580 Yes, I am confident, but at the moment there's a massive division, not just in this country, but in every country across the West, right?

00:22:34.580 I mean, let's look at the assassination of Charlie Kirk, right?

00:22:38.080 So, you've got the assassination of Charlie Kirk, say it was Tyler James Robinson, I believe that was his name, we don't know yet, because he hasn't been convicted of anything.

00:22:45.100 That's a shooter, yeah.

00:22:45.900 Right, say it was him, yeah?

00:22:47.620 Yeah, you've now got people who are saying, oh God, it was someone who was dating the trans, and so we now got, you know, people are calling for civil war against the left.

00:22:54.980 But who radicalized the left, right?

00:22:58.260 It's the state, it's the education system, et cetera.

00:23:01.040 And so people quite obviously overlook who is truly responsible for a lot of what we're seeing across Western Europe, right?

00:23:10.100 I think dialogue can happen, dialogue is important, without dialogue wars happen, marriages fall apart, et cetera.

00:23:18.260 Dialogue is extremely crucial to our democracy, right?

00:23:22.860 I mean, behind dialogue, I would say, well, in front of dialogue, I would say that the most important fundamental right that we had was our right to guns. 0.60

00:23:30.580 Because without that, every other country should-

00:23:31.980 Well, those are gone.

00:23:32.540 So what you guys don't know is that there are no guns in England other than the armed forces.

00:23:37.080 No, no, they do allow guns, but it's very much, it's very controlled.

00:23:40.020 So you're only allowed air guns and stuff like that.

00:23:41.740 It's not like-

00:23:42.200 For the most part, the only people who have guns are the armed, it's like a section of police that are allowed to have guns.

00:23:47.400 So most even police don't even have guns.

00:23:49.160 But once they take away that right, they start chipping away at every other right.

00:23:52.480 And that's what's happened in the UK, right?

00:23:53.820 They started taking away our free speech, et cetera.

00:23:55.180 So Canada's going through this right now.

00:23:56.560 They're trying to take away all the guns in Canada.

00:23:58.420 Don't let it.

00:23:59.380 Don't let it happen.

00:24:00.280 Don't allow it.

00:24:00.860 Honestly, that's kind of the downhill spiral.

00:24:04.060 So from Tony Blair, you can see a lot of issues that have happened.

00:24:06.900 But our main ones is that they've started chipping away at the rights, right?

00:24:10.960 But in front of that, well, behind that, you've then got free speech, which is also another important right.

00:24:15.500 Once they take away that, your right to protest goes.

00:24:18.520 Everything else goes as well.

00:24:20.320 So free speech is extremely crucial.

00:24:23.120 And no functioning democracy can happen without the right to free speech and the right to protest.

00:24:27.240 I'll give you an example.

00:24:28.640 So you remember during COVID, right?

00:24:30.860 There was a group called Public Child Protection Wales.

00:24:33.300 And what the Welsh government was trying to do is they were trying to pass new RSE curriculum.

00:24:39.400 And this RSE curriculum would teach kids about transgenderism, anal sex, et cetera.

00:24:46.740 Yeah, we have the same problem. 0.92

00:24:47.900 Exactly.

00:24:48.460 Disgusting topics, right?

00:24:49.880 But because it was passed during COVID, PCP Wales, they organized a protest against it outside the Senate.

00:24:55.100 They were arrested and charged for protesting during lockdown, for being out.

00:25:00.860 During lockdown, right?

00:25:02.680 But in a functioning society, they're meant to pass a law and you're meant to have a right to petition against it, protest against it, et cetera.

00:25:12.580 If they banned protests, the entire democratic protest no longer exists.

00:25:19.000 They can just pass laws or willy-nilly, right?

00:25:22.820 So, you know, your right to protest is extremely crucial.

00:25:26.440 Yeah.

00:25:26.720 I want to touch on just one last thing before we wrap.

00:25:29.800 Well, maybe a couple of things before we wrap up.

00:25:31.960 And that is digital ID and online controls.

00:25:34.500 Because you're talking about free speech and protest and COVID and the fact that we have the internet, people are able to communicate things.

00:25:40.080 So when I arrived in England, the first thing that happened is Twitter, Blue Sky, whatever I tried to access told me that everything was going to be limited because they need to check my age.

00:25:51.160 Now, this is new because the last time I came two years ago, that wasn't a problem.

00:25:54.860 That didn't exist.

00:25:55.860 It's called the online safety bill.

00:25:57.060 And I'm a journalist.

00:25:58.660 And so when I want to put things out, it's important that they reach the audience.

00:26:02.500 And I have been severely limited since I've been in this country.

00:26:06.640 See, the way I avoid that, by the way, and this is quite funny, is I use a VPN that connects me to Canada because Canada doesn't have that.

00:26:12.220 So that's how I avoid the online safety bill.

00:26:15.220 But you're right.

00:26:16.000 I mean, if you look at Hong Kong, China, North Korea, et cetera, all of those countries, the government restricts your right to access.

00:26:24.120 The reason I bring this up is we're facing this right now.

00:26:26.300 They're trying to pass this in our parliament at the minute.

00:26:28.720 It's been ongoing.

00:26:29.440 It's very controversial.

00:26:30.120 And it would essentially completely curb or even give the government the ability to take away your ability to access the Internet and also give the Internet provider or stop the Internet provider, even saying that you've been taken off the Internet.

00:26:44.420 Yeah.

00:26:44.720 Yeah.

00:26:45.060 Right?

00:26:45.520 I mean, it's concerning.

00:26:47.060 Like, this isn't just, you know, Canada, the U.K., et cetera.

00:26:49.860 Every country across Western Europe eventually is going to try and do the same thing.

00:26:53.720 Every country.

00:26:54.540 Right?

00:26:54.660 The reason they, so with, you know, pornography, so pornography was one of the precursors to it.

00:27:00.340 They wanted to control Internet access or porn access.

00:27:04.060 There's easy ways you could do that.

00:27:05.640 You could literally have it so you have to go into a shop to get a card and you have to show your ID to access porn online.

00:27:12.140 A lot of people wouldn't like to do that, but tough.

00:27:14.440 Right?

00:27:14.640 It's better than having our right to Internet access restricted.

00:27:17.520 Right?

00:27:18.080 So now that they've got.

00:27:19.420 But that's the reason they're using, because it's the same account.

00:27:21.860 They're using children, but that's not the actual.

00:27:23.520 If you look at the bills, that's not what's actually happening.

00:27:25.720 Well, this is it.

00:27:26.220 So they originally, they start with, they just control your access to porn, your access to, there's quite a few other things.

00:27:32.280 And, you know, you're not allowed to say certain things on social media, which comes under, you know, the online harms bill.

00:27:36.980 But eventually it's going to move on to, oh, you can't say that.

00:27:40.100 That's misinformation.

00:27:41.460 Right?

00:27:41.940 So I know this firsthand.

00:27:43.580 If you pumped out misinformation regarding the Ukraine-Russia war, then you would not be allowed to access to having ads on your websites using Google.

00:27:52.580 Right?

00:27:52.980 Google's the biggest place you get ads on websites.

00:27:55.120 Right?

00:27:55.700 So that was the, what was it?

00:27:59.940 So obviously they did that.

00:28:01.060 And then you have COVID as well.

00:28:02.880 You're not allowed to get monetized as a website if you put out COVID misinformation.

00:28:06.940 Right?

00:28:07.080 So eventually they're just going to start banning websites, which pump out COVID misinformation, Ukraine, Russia, misinformation, climate misinformation, etc.

00:28:17.720 It's the information the government doesn't want you to see, essentially.

00:28:19.760 Exactly.

00:28:20.620 Exactly.

00:28:21.120 But people have, like, I'd say people have bought it, but even on the left, even on the right, no one has.

00:28:26.520 Yeah.

00:28:26.700 And, you know, me and you had a discussion about this earlier, but surely, you know, if people, what is it, there's so much hate they can take.

00:28:34.500 But no, the entirety of the UK has been against the online harms bill, against, you know, digital ID, and they've gone and done it anyway.

00:28:41.860 To me, that is not, that is not a democracy.

00:28:46.220 That is a dictatorship.

00:28:48.320 You know, if you look at Ukraine in 2013, in 2013, the reason that the revolution happened was because you had the government, what was it, originally it was to do with the EU.

00:28:59.760 They wanted to go in the EU, they wanted to go back into the EU, they voted for a president who said that you'd do it, and he didn't.

00:29:05.940 And then they passed a bunch of laws that stopped you from protesting, stopped you from wearing bike helmets, etc.

00:29:10.960 Right.

00:29:11.840 And so we took from wearing masks so you couldn't hide your identity.

00:29:14.900 And then, you know, the revolution happened.

00:29:16.920 They are passing laws without the consent of the people.

00:29:19.840 That is tyranny.

00:29:20.840 Yeah.

00:29:21.240 I mean, we could say, let's go for a direct democracy like Sweden, but we know how that ended.

00:29:25.720 Now they're all chipped.

00:29:27.180 They're all chipped.

00:29:28.020 They're all vaccinated.

00:29:28.840 It didn't really work out well.

00:29:30.260 So the answer is not that clear.

00:29:31.900 But I think the American, the way that Americans have modelled their politics is actually quite smart.

00:29:38.320 It's a constitutional republic.

00:29:39.720 Like, democracy is more of a mob rule.

00:29:41.720 So I wouldn't call the Ukraine democratic.

00:29:44.220 Democracy is mob rule.

00:29:47.160 We're a monarch at the moment.

00:29:48.440 I want us to go into a, I think, constitutional republic like America is perfect.

00:29:53.800 You know, you have a codified constitution.

00:29:55.640 You have the amendments.

00:29:56.560 I think that's a brilliant way of doing it.

00:29:57.820 And that's the best way we can maintain our rights.

00:29:59.800 He said something about passing laws without the consent of the people.

00:30:03.480 And I think let's just finish on digital ID because this is something that has been just imposed.

00:30:11.760 It's just been done.

00:30:12.940 They just went, okay, now we're going to do digital ID.

00:30:15.020 We, the Labour Party had their Labour Party conference in, was it Liverpool?

00:30:21.680 Yes.

00:30:22.360 Is it Liverpool?

00:30:23.180 And they just announced it.

00:30:24.680 They just announced it.

00:30:25.660 And it felt like, I know people are going to talk about digital ID and what it means,

00:30:29.420 but it felt like a reaction to the patriot movement.

00:30:31.820 It felt like a means of grasping control where they felt like they'd lost it.

00:30:36.620 I would love to know what you think about this digital ID situation.

00:30:41.160 Well, it is exactly how you described it there.

00:30:44.040 So, after the murder of three young girls in Southport, I'm not sure if you heard of that.

00:30:49.860 Yeah.

00:30:50.280 Yeah.

00:30:50.660 But context is good because I follow this, but I don't know that many Canadians do.

00:30:55.260 But these, these, why don't you explain it?

00:30:57.100 So, a Welsh Christian choir boy, who was a black migrant, well, second generation immigrant 0.89

00:31:02.700 from Rwanda, I believe it was, he went into a dance school, a Taylor Swift dance class

00:31:09.620 in Southport, and he murdered three young girls and tried to, and he stabbed a bunch

00:31:14.280 of others, right?

00:31:15.800 Yeah.

00:31:16.820 As a response to that, the UK rioted.

00:31:20.100 Now, I didn't support, when it first happened, I did a video and I basically said, don't go

00:31:25.380 to these protests because what's going to happen is they're going to provoke you into

00:31:28.660 a riot and then they're going to pass more laws that control us. 0.98

00:31:31.320 It was up and down the country.

00:31:32.640 It was mostly in the north, but also in the south.

00:31:35.300 It was violent. 0.87

00:31:37.120 There was all these gangs of white Brits out protesting and these gangs of Muslims out 1.00

00:31:42.960 with knives and things like that. 0.68

00:31:45.880 And it lasted, I don't know, about three days or so.

00:31:48.660 Lasted about a week.

00:31:49.580 There were some hotels that were firebombed, but there was also some people trying to attack

00:31:53.460 other people with knives, like, I mean, it was pandemonium.

00:31:55.420 It proper went, it proper kicked off in the UK.

00:31:57.680 There were proper riots.

00:31:58.580 And to be honest, I can't blame anyone for what happened there.

00:32:02.080 But as a response to that, the, what was it, the prime minister of the UK, Keir Starmer,

00:32:09.880 he came out and he basically said, you know, I stand with the Muslim community.

00:32:15.020 Yeah.

00:32:15.400 We're going to increase facial recognition.

00:32:17.560 And they've used facial recognition against me.

00:32:19.120 I'm on bail.

00:32:19.920 Yeah.

00:32:20.200 You know, they've used that, they've used that to search me a few times now.

00:32:23.600 You know, it was going to increase facial recognition.

00:32:25.740 These are the cameras that they have at protests, right?

00:32:27.280 Yes.

00:32:27.420 These people go around in hats.

00:32:28.420 Not just that.

00:32:29.060 I mean, like, I went to a concert recently, they had facial recognition there.

00:32:32.300 And, you know, me and my girlfriend were pulled instantly and searched.

00:32:35.060 Yeah.

00:32:35.320 So they have facial recognition everywhere.

00:32:37.900 Yeah.

00:32:38.000 And they don't have to tell you these days.

00:32:40.000 So this was all, this is all stemmed from the protests during Southport.

00:32:44.780 But what you find out is a lot of these, so a lot of these people who went to these protests,

00:32:49.640 like Pisa Lynch, I believe, as well, they went to these protests and they were, the people

00:32:55.460 who actually caused the riots, they weren't anyone new.

00:32:59.560 Yeah.

00:32:59.720 No one knew them, right?

00:33:00.980 They were just, so what we think is establishment plants.

00:33:04.780 I mean, you know, we go back to Ukraine in 2013.

00:33:06.740 And the reason that riots happened there was because, and this has been admitted now,

00:33:11.520 the government installed people to cause trouble, agitators.

00:33:15.020 Yeah.

00:33:15.060 Well, we know that happens in America too.

00:33:16.640 Exactly.

00:33:17.140 I'm pretty sure it happens in Canada.

00:33:18.480 Exactly.

00:33:19.000 And that happened here.

00:33:20.000 Yeah.

00:33:20.300 They got in agitators to cause a riot and then they passed more laws to prohibit our freedoms,

00:33:26.880 restrict our freedoms, restrict our freedoms of movement, our freedom to protest.

00:33:30.840 You know, so a lot of it, a lot of what's happening now with the section 14 is mainly

00:33:35.220 is actually traced back to that.

00:33:36.820 They don't want any more.

00:33:37.540 So essentially what you're saying is that my feeling, or you agree with my feeling that

00:33:43.160 the digital ID is a response to the United Kingdom movement, the Patriot movement, the

00:33:47.700 raising of the flags.

00:33:48.620 Digital ID, they've actually been talking about this since 2005, perhaps, perhaps even earlier

00:33:53.540 with Tony Blair, right?

00:33:55.200 Tony Blair came in, he opened the floodgates of migrants coming in to, uh, to the UK. 0.99

00:34:00.840 He, um, he was talking about digital ID and what was it?

00:34:06.080 So digital ID, right?

00:34:07.320 We've got a national insurance number, national insurance number allows us, uh, is what gives

00:34:11.600 us our right to work in the UK.

00:34:13.200 We don't need anything else, but you know, Tony Blair started talking about, uh, digital,

00:34:16.920 uh, digital ID in 2005 as a solution to immigration, right?

00:34:21.300 His son is developing the system that allows digital ID to work, which I find quite interesting,

00:34:27.640 right?

00:34:27.840 There's a little bit of nepotism going on there.

00:34:29.360 Yeah.

00:34:29.560 Um, so, you know, digital ID is absolutely disgusting and the way it works.

00:34:35.240 So we've got, um, I talked to you about this earlier in the UK right now, most banks, most

00:34:41.600 banks, most banking apps, they have your, um, what they call a carbon footprint number.

00:34:48.900 It's like an actual number associated with your accounts.

00:34:51.020 Yeah.

00:34:51.220 Right.

00:34:51.840 So it's how much petrol you use in stuff like that.

00:34:54.160 They have a carbon footprint number.

00:34:55.460 Um, you know, when you purchase a train these days, they'll tell you about your carbon footprint,

00:34:59.140 how much carbon has been emitted.

00:35:01.140 Um, that's all connected to your banking app.

00:35:03.820 Now you've got a digital ID.

00:35:04.820 You're going to have carbon footprint on there.

00:35:06.820 And it, it, what it's kind of like a social credit system.

00:35:10.500 Yeah.

00:35:11.500 It's like a social credit system.

00:35:12.780 You've got a score there for how much petrol you're using in the name of climate change.

00:35:16.860 By the way, carbon good for the environment, not bad.

00:35:19.900 It's good for the environment.

00:35:21.900 Um, so, you know, you've got, you've basically already got a carbon, uh, a social credit score

00:35:27.500 in this country already.

00:35:28.700 Now you've got a digital ID during COVID.

00:35:30.620 They're going to say, oh, you know, you're spending money outside your protest zone.

00:35:35.420 Well, so if the government is willing to bring in this high control, low accountability, uh,

00:35:43.500 program very swiftly at a, at a conference without even engaging with his own parliamentary ministers

00:35:49.580 or even discussing it in parliament.

00:35:51.420 So I've actually seen labor MPs, uh, denounce the digital ID.

00:35:57.340 Like they they've actually criticized it.

00:35:59.180 Right.

00:35:59.420 So it's not just conservatives.

00:36:01.100 It's not just reform.

00:36:02.140 It's there's a lot of people criticizing, including their own ministers, because they

00:36:05.820 weren't, there was no discussion about it anyway.

00:36:07.900 And so if you have a government who's willing to just say, okay, we're doing this now, we're

00:36:12.380 not going to follow the proper protocols.

00:36:13.900 We're just going to do it because that's what we want.

00:36:16.140 Well, then it does seem a likely assumption that they would also be willing to then

00:36:21.180 control the population further, right.

00:36:23.820 To impose whatever will they need to impose at the time.

00:36:26.620 And now we have this, we know we have a managerial state in Canada.

00:36:29.500 We also have a managerial state in the UK.

00:36:31.660 There's technocratic state that people talk about that, that might say, well,

00:36:35.580 we're a little bit too high on our carbon credits this month.

00:36:38.220 So we just need to tune that down.

00:36:39.900 So we're just going to lower people's meat eating limits or whatever it is.

00:36:44.220 So I, I don't know.

00:36:45.340 I'm hopeful.

00:36:46.780 The bill, not bill, but the previous attempts to bring in a digital ID did not pass.

00:36:54.220 It was completely pooh-poohed.

00:36:56.460 Everybody criticized it.

00:36:57.660 Now that was maybe almost 20 years ago.

00:37:00.380 So there is also a chance that that will not go anywhere because of the enormous pushback

00:37:05.020 that's been seen even just over the last few days.

00:37:07.260 Rupert Lowe, I believe, was an independent MP who used to be reformed,

00:37:10.860 put out a letter.

00:37:11.580 It was a cross-party letter.

00:37:12.540 So many different parties signed on to that.

00:37:14.140 And so there's hope that it won't actually pass.

00:37:16.860 There is hope.

00:37:17.660 But again, they've done so many things in the past without it needing to pass it.

00:37:21.500 It needs to pass legislation.

00:37:23.260 So we are in a position where whether, you know, you've got hundreds of MPs maybe against it,

00:37:28.220 it doesn't matter.

00:37:29.820 They will do it anyway.

00:37:30.700 And that's my concern is that they will do it anyway.

00:37:32.940 We will have a digital ID.

00:37:34.220 I mean, you know, we've, what was it?

00:37:36.300 Over the past few hours, there's been a message that was sent to me.

00:37:40.060 And what's happening now is that people are having a government ID check

00:37:45.580 pop up on their phone.

00:37:46.860 It's not installed.

00:37:47.740 It was never there before.

00:37:49.020 But they are having a government ID check pop up on their phone.

00:37:52.220 So it seems like they're doing it anyway anyway.

00:37:54.860 James, this has been fantastic.

00:37:56.220 Thank you so much for talking to me today.

00:37:57.500 Thank you so much for having me.

00:37:58.380 I've heard so many times that either America or Britain are five years ahead of Canada.

00:38:03.900 And I have absolutely been convinced by this conversation that it is.

00:38:07.660 Britain has been enacting all kinds of laws and policies that in Britain have just been imposed

00:38:12.860 upon the people.

00:38:14.140 And there's a window into what we can expect if we don't do anything about it.

00:38:19.100 So if you enjoyed this conversation, if you got anything out of it, please like and subscribe

00:38:24.060 and share it widely because we don't want this to be happening in Canada.

00:38:27.660 For True North, I'm Melanie Bennett.

Juno News - October 26, 2025

UK’s Free Speech Crackdown： Arrests for Words, Banned Flags, and Digital Shackles

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