Juno News - UN summit on plastic pollution meets in Ottawa

00:00:00.000 All right, let's talk plastics here. We have the federal government unveiling a plastics

00:00:13.920 registry this week. Now the government loves registries. This comes on the eve of this giant

00:00:21.520 plastics conference taking place in Ottawa. The United Nations representatives from around the

00:00:26.720 world are descending in Ottawa. They're all pushing for a plastics treaty and when all of this comes up

00:00:32.560 they say they're going after plastic pollution. They don't want a plastic straw to end up

00:00:37.360 up a poor sea turtle's nose which I'm sympathetic to. The problem is that a lot of the regulations

00:00:42.800 that tend to flow from these sorts of discussions target countries that have nothing to do with the

00:00:47.760 plastic pollution issue. The federal government in Canada championed a ban on single-use plastics which

00:00:53.360 was of course overturned by the Supreme Court. But even to this day Stephen Gilbo is defending it.

00:00:59.280 Take a look at this clip. Does this push back against the carbon tax and and now we see really

00:01:06.560 high gas prices that Canadians are very concerned about. Does this show perhaps to you that Canadians

00:01:12.800 may not be embracing a green agenda sustainable agenda as as firmly as you would like? The support

00:01:21.280 by Canadians for what what is happening here is is tremendous. I mean the the announcement that

00:01:28.880 our government made in 2019 on on banning single-use plastic remains if not the most popular announcement

00:01:34.800 that we've done since 2015. Certainly one of the most popular announcement in terms of the public support

00:01:40.240 for it. So I think that the public wants us to to take action on to fight plastic pollution.

00:01:45.840 So he's still defending this even to this day and I I'm a little bit concerned of what's going to come

00:01:52.640 of this big confab over the next several days here. I want to talk about this in a bit more detail here.

00:01:59.440 Joining me now is Anya Curran who is the president and CEO of the Vinyl Institute of Canada which is

00:02:06.000 not dedicated to old records but Anya it's good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today.

00:02:10.560 It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. So well let's start with what is at stake here.

00:02:15.840 I mean what are the the goals that the Canadian government has and the UN has coming out of this

00:02:20.800 session this week? My goodness that's a huge question and there isn't just one answer but

00:02:27.840 ultimately the idea is that somehow the plastics industry will come to the table. They will solve all

00:02:37.120 the litter problems in the world and I guess you know they're they're looking to see if they can get

00:02:46.400 some kind of a global agreement but as you know John there's a lot of countries around the globe and

00:02:53.360 every country has a different social structure, different economic structure. So it's going to be

00:02:59.840 challenging to I think bring this agreement to a place where there will be there will be harmony.

00:03:07.760 At least in the next several years I it's it's going to take a lot more than five years or five

00:03:13.920 years or less than to put something as complex as this together. Well and and I mentioned in the lead

00:03:19.920 in to bringing you on the show here there's always been this tremendous problem when plastic pollution

00:03:25.040 issues which are significant issues in other parts of the world there is an issue in Asia in particular

00:03:30.320 with this and I think there was a study a couple of years ago that it said virtually all the plastics

00:03:34.960 in the ocean came from uh like basically they could track the rivers they came from and and almost all

00:03:40.560 of them were in Asia a couple were in Africa it's not coming from North America it's not coming from

00:03:45.200 Europe but those are the jurisdictions when these regulations uh tend to come down on they come down the

00:03:51.440 hardest so we're basically paying the price for a problem that literally has nothing to do with us.

00:03:57.200 Well first of all I don't know that I would I I would say that it has nothing to do with us okay

00:04:01.920 as as first world countries we manufacture a lot of a lot of materials not just plastics but a lot of

00:04:08.480 materials that are then shipped one way or the other to second and third world uh countries so um I think

00:04:15.760 that uh just to be fair you don't think it's enough to focus on our role on the disposal of it and the waste

00:04:20.800 management I think I believe that there is um a point where you just have to acknowledge that if

00:04:27.680 you are uh creating litter from anywhere in the country anywhere in the world that as a manufacturer

00:04:34.960 you're going to step up and try to innovate because you all we all know that in innovation your last

00:04:39.680 guest just said you know from innovation comes a lot of great opportunities and I 100 agree with that

00:04:46.400 because um we're already seeing a lot of movement uh in the plastics industry worldwide uh we're already

00:04:53.120 seeing you know companies like uh the vinyl industry uh dow chemical uh nova basf like all of these big

00:05:01.120 organizations worldwide are innovating and they are seeing the opportunities that um are are possible

00:05:08.560 and I think one of the things the challenges I think that the industry has is that um there are target

00:05:14.800 dates that are set to accomplish certain uh certain types of benchmarks uh as per the united nations

00:05:22.000 as per various governments around the country but the timelines are not reasonable and I think

00:05:26.960 that's one of the things that we're uh looking to do I mean we at the vinyl institute of Canada

00:05:32.320 we are partners with environment and climate change Canada uh we just launched a medical pvc

00:05:37.760 recycling program with them in 2020 in the middle of covid um and just today we're we just announced

00:05:44.160 the expansion of that in Toronto and we're also hoping to get that into Quebec as well so they're

00:05:48.960 partners with us they've been partners with us on environmental performance agreements what we want

00:05:54.160 to see is more messaging and more uh will from the government to collaborate with industry and I don't

00:06:02.560 know that we're seeing enough of that yet we're starting but you know the united nations is a global body as you

00:06:08.880 know and uh I think really uh it's difficult to uh when you're various countries it's it's just difficult

00:06:17.600 to get to that place of harmonization where we can all sort of uh toe the line as it were so um I don't

00:06:25.120 know that the answer is just for us to ignore all all of the the litter in the world but definitely um I

00:06:31.760 think we as an industry we are definitely showing um that we are moving forward we're environmentally

00:06:38.560 forward and um sometimes I don't know that that's being um as communicated um as as it should be by

00:06:47.040 these types of uh uh conferences I was at the INC3 conference in Nairobi and you know one of the

00:06:54.160 challenges that I feel that we have is um the plastics industry for example uh are invited to be

00:07:01.600 observers at these conferences but we're not invited to be at the table to actually be part

00:07:07.760 of the negotiations and with respect to the plastics registry that you just led with um you know we've

00:07:14.880 worked with environment climate change Canada on helping them to you know identify how the supply

00:07:20.960 chain works so that you know this this particular registry can work efficiently and can work so that

00:07:26.880 it's a win-win for everybody um again um I we need to get more collaboration from the government we

00:07:33.440 need uh you know our governments are elected our taxes are paid based on building waste management

00:07:38.960 infrastructure and to your earlier question about second and third world countries they simply don't

00:07:44.400 have waste management infrastructure you're not going to see waste management infrastructure in Africa

00:07:50.000 for example or in India for example simply because their governments really haven't prioritized that

00:07:56.160 um over you know they have the the linear space of time and not only that they just don't have the

00:08:03.120 funds to really put that in place in terms of the infrastructure so I believe one of the things that

00:08:09.360 that eventually will come out of of uh you know all of this discussion about plastics um is uh you know we

00:08:16.800 we will provide I think more of a education and some guidance and leadership to help these other

00:08:23.280 countries to get uh into a position where they can actually uh develop their own waste management

00:08:29.200 infrastructure and I think that ultimately is going to be um the outcome and the goal of all of this

00:08:34.480 you mentioned I think a very important distinction here which is that you're allowed to observe but

00:08:38.320 you're not at the table so you're you're on one hand given I think that token inclusion as a stakeholder

00:08:43.920 but you're not actually consulted on or consulted with in in a meaningful way it sounds like and

00:08:49.600 what is it they're missing I mean if industry is leading here and you've already got by the sounds

00:08:54.320 of it through your organization anyway relationships with the federal government why is it that they're

00:08:58.720 flipping a switch when it comes to a summit like this where they're going to ink a treaty that will

00:09:04.560 at some point trickle down into domestic to domestic policy why are you being cut out here

00:09:08.960 when you do have a seat at the table in other ways it sounds like I think so there's 4 200

00:09:15.600 delegates registered here in Ottawa this week right um and I don't think anybody has the answer to that

00:09:22.400 question I mean we we uh I think many many different organizations have uh asked for the opportunity to

00:09:31.520 be at the table um certainly when you look at uh you know global corporations like DAO and global

00:09:40.480 corporations like BASF certainly that they are able to have you know direct dialogues with some of the

00:09:45.440 very senior folks at the united united nations but at the end of the day the the folks that are on the

00:09:50.800 ground are the ones that really make the difference in terms of execution and I think that's really

00:09:55.280 where uh unfortunately I wish the united nations would be a little bit more broad in terms of who they're

00:10:01.040 inviting and take advantage of the expertise that's in the industry then that could probably help them to

00:10:08.480 achieve um a really good agreement at the end of the day but I think that there's a lot of information

00:10:14.480 um that's really being being missed there and uh that's unfortunate and again the timelines are quite

00:10:20.480 short in terms of uh treaty times you know most treaties I was told uh in a in an interview that I

00:10:27.040 had with uh one of the representatives for Canada to the united nations explained that you know most treaties

00:10:33.520 can take 10 to 15 years and so when you look at sort of some of the branding that's gone on um through

00:10:40.000 this process at at the the united nations environmental program it's high ambition that's the positioning and

00:10:47.760 the high ambition means let's try to get it done in five years or less um but it the complexity of it

00:10:55.040 regardless of whether it's plastics regardless of whether it's any other material in in the world

00:11:01.120 um it's just it's it's a very it's I think it's it's beyond high ambition and I don't know that it's

00:11:07.840 entirely realistic and I think what's happening is you know when when you're sort of boots on the ground

00:11:12.800 at these particular events I think one of the things that's really great about uh these types of events is

00:11:18.960 that we do as an industry have an opportunity to meet and network with people but I I would like to see

00:11:25.680 more um uh I would like to see more effort um from uh the organizers the united nations to invite us to

00:11:34.080 educate uh uh you know all of the folks that are there and um I I don't know maybe that's going to

00:11:41.120 take another treaty another day but um I just see a lot of lost opportunity and the plastics industry

00:11:47.520 really um they hold all of the the uh supply chain intelligence uh you know in terms of the

00:11:54.640 accuracy of how things happen and sometimes I look at some of the things that are being proposed and

00:12:01.920 think you know it's just not logistically possible with everything the way that uh the infrastructure

00:12:07.360 has been established you know over the last you know 80 to 100 years and you know which raises

00:12:13.280 another point I mean we pay taxes people citizens of Canada pay taxes uh for the government whether

00:12:20.480 that's federal uh provincial or municipal to build waste in from waste management infrastructure and

00:12:27.840 I think to you know 80 years later to not have included plastic since it became a commodity and uh

00:12:35.600 products on the market servicing you know millions of of of people in the public and business and

00:12:41.440 commercial industrial um all of a sudden 80 years later we're we're talking about waste

00:12:47.200 management infrastructure but we're really not getting again that that sense of collaboration

00:12:52.560 that depth of collaboration that I think we really need to have in order to make it all come together

00:12:57.840 so all right well great insights on this we'll be uh keeping an eye on on what happens this week

00:13:02.160 let's hope they uh get you here seat at the table uh sooner rather than later uh anya current

00:13:07.520 president and ceo of the vinyl institute of Canada thank you very much thanks john appreciate it

00:13:12.080 thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show support the program by donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - April 27, 2024

UN summit on plastic pollution meets in Ottawa

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Summary

Transcript