Juno News - Vaccine Passports and the Permanent Lockdown

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.700 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.680 Coming up, ending the permanent lockdown, vaccine passports,

00:00:16.900 and the government chooses suicide promotion over suicide prevention.

00:00:22.440 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:26.080 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:32.000 This is The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:00:34.800 It's great to have you tuned into the program.

00:00:36.520 Great to be back.

00:00:37.380 I took a couple of days.

00:00:38.480 I don't want to say off, but I took a couple of days in which I didn't record the show when I normally would

00:00:44.060 because I was, as you may have seen if you've been following True North,

00:00:47.720 starting the cross-country production of Assaulted, Justin Trudeau's War on Gun Owners.

00:00:53.020 We did a lot of filming last week in British Columbia, went all over the province

00:00:56.900 and had an absolutely great time, I think, talking to real gun owners,

00:01:02.020 real Canadians, law-abiding people who are being affected by Justin Trudeau's crusade against guns.

00:01:08.900 And I want to play for you a little update I got to record

00:01:11.660 against the backdrop of the beautiful mountains from British Columbia.

00:01:15.200 I'm on the road.

00:01:16.980 I'm traveling the country as part of the nationwide production tour of my first documentary,

00:01:21.480 Assaulted, Justin Trudeau's War on Gun Owners.

00:01:24.280 We kicked things off this week and it has been a busy week going across British Columbia.

00:01:29.040 Right now I'm in Chilliwack, BC.

00:01:31.520 And let me tell you, I've been talking to gun owners, people who run gun businesses,

00:01:35.880 people that advocate for firearms owners,

00:01:37.820 and I even got the chance to head out to the range myself.

00:01:40.620 That's what we're doing on this project.

00:01:42.000 We're talking to the real people across this country who are affected negatively

00:01:46.160 by Justin Trudeau's and the Liberal government's war on guns,

00:01:49.780 and more importantly, the war on gun owners.

00:01:52.480 This is a community that feels assaulted and violated by these policies,

00:01:56.660 which is exactly why we did this.

00:01:58.520 These people's stories aren't being told.

00:02:00.460 So I'm going across the country, starting in BC, to put a face and a voice to these people.

00:02:05.300 The mainstream media, the government, they may be ignoring these people,

00:02:08.900 but we certainly aren't.

00:02:10.020 If you support this project and want to be a part of it,

00:02:12.480 head on over to www.assaulted.ca to learn about it and make a contribution.

00:02:18.820 Anyone who donates more than $100 gets their name listed in the credits of each episode of this

00:02:23.000 when it comes out later this year.

00:02:24.880 From Chilliwack, BC, I'm Andrew Lawton.

00:02:27.040 And thanks again to all of you who have supported this project so far.

00:02:33.860 It's going great.

00:02:34.780 We're going to be doing more filming in Alberta and Ontario in the next little while.

00:02:39.500 And as I've mentioned, I'd love to get out to Atlantic Canada.

00:02:41.920 I don't know if it's going to be possible with the travel restrictions there.

00:02:45.300 I did look into it, and they don't have, like other jurisdictions do,

00:02:49.460 an exemption for people in media, for journalists.

00:02:52.440 So if I were to go out there to do, you know, three or four days of filming,

00:02:55.840 I'd have to first spend two weeks in a hotel room, which, I mean, like so many other Canadians,

00:03:01.400 I'm feeling like I would rather not be relegated to hotel quarantine.

00:03:05.620 Although I will say the federal government is actually expanding the hotel quarantine.

00:03:10.900 They didn't have nearly enough hotels, apparently, from demand.

00:03:14.160 And I think the government actually underestimated how many people are still wanting to travel.

00:03:18.660 So when they first announced this, people were finding that they couldn't get into hotels

00:03:22.880 because they were just so insanely overbooked.

00:03:25.500 You only had a few of them, and not even entire hotels.

00:03:28.120 It was just smaller sections of hotels that were at airports.

00:03:32.760 So this is something we saw.

00:03:34.740 The Public Health Agency of Canada is accepting more hotel applications if they meet all these criteria.

00:03:42.060 Right now, there are 47 hotels available, some of which can be booked online.

00:03:46.880 But they're trying to get more and more of these.

00:03:49.200 And I just will say that when we were headed out to do Assaulted,

00:03:52.380 there was still a fair bit of travel going on.

00:03:55.720 And I don't know how many people were going internationally or not.

00:03:58.800 There was one family that I was on a plane with that was off to Florida, a family of four.

00:04:04.200 So people are still traveling.

00:04:06.020 The challenge is the government has made it harder and harder for individuals to do it,

00:04:10.600 especially for families.

00:04:12.540 And some people, they have the money.

00:04:14.180 They can afford to take the two weeks of quarantine.

00:04:16.880 They can afford to spend two grand on the quarantine hotel or all that jazz.

00:04:21.180 But they actually are still able to travel.

00:04:23.920 So all the government has done is gone after people who are of lesser means,

00:04:28.100 which is funny because this is the government that claims that it's the great

00:04:31.360 resolver of the inequalities of the world.

00:04:34.000 But now they've just made international travel a privilege for only the elites of society.

00:04:39.580 The problem that we have is that other countries are going to be safer and safer than Canada is.

00:04:46.620 Other countries are in the process of reopening.

00:04:48.940 Other countries are in the process of getting their populations vaccinated for those who want it,

00:04:54.260 whereas Canada is lagging significantly.

00:04:57.060 I think every time I check the list, we keep going down it even more.

00:05:00.480 And these are the hotels, of course, where one woman had been sexually assaulted.

00:05:05.540 So there are significant problems in how the hotels are adjusting to this program as it is,

00:05:11.380 which means I'm quite sympathetic to Canadians that aren't quite fans of it.

00:05:15.720 And it's interesting.

00:05:16.440 You can take hotels that have been operating for years just fine.

00:05:19.380 The second you make the hotels agents of government,

00:05:22.120 they cease to be able to do anything on their own.

00:05:24.500 That's the problem.

00:05:25.100 Once government gets involved, no one has any idea how to do it,

00:05:28.540 and everything is like reinventing the wheel.

00:05:30.660 Even booking a reservation at one of these hotels,

00:05:33.180 which you could always just do by calling up the hotel,

00:05:35.800 the government tried to centralize the process,

00:05:37.940 which was really the beginning of why all of it was just so difficult for people.

00:05:42.840 And you had people that were at the airport arrivals area

00:05:45.180 just trying to book their quarantine hotel and not able to get through,

00:05:49.060 which, oh, shucks, whatever.

00:05:50.420 I mentioned in a brief video last week

00:05:53.020 that we need to see more politicians speaking up against lockdowns.

00:05:57.880 And I had talked about a couple of examples.

00:06:00.120 The most recent was Conservative MP David Sweet,

00:06:02.580 but very small numbers of politicians that are standing up and saying,

00:06:06.580 no, lockdowns have to stop.

00:06:08.060 And when they do, finding themselves relegated to the fringes of discourse.

00:06:13.360 What Aaron O'Toole had said to David Sweet is that,

00:06:15.800 oh, well, you know, I understand people getting frustrated a year in,

00:06:19.100 but we can't do counterproductive things.

00:06:21.020 Really? Opposing lockdown is counterproductive?

00:06:24.440 We know Roman Baber was kicked out of caucus for opposing lockdowns.

00:06:28.660 Belinda Karajalios for trying to go against her PC party and her government at the time

00:06:33.920 because she didn't like that they were trying to seize power.

00:06:37.120 So all of these people that have been standing up for the right to get back to our normal lives,

00:06:41.660 for the most part, are being forced into the fringes of political debate.

00:06:45.960 And I was very pleased to see this weekend, Michelle Rempel, a Conservative MP,

00:06:50.740 actually sponsor a petition and release a video on the importance of having a new path forward,

00:06:57.080 what she called a plan for hope.

00:06:59.020 And I'm not saying I was responsible for it.

00:07:01.260 Michelle has been always solid on the side of business. 0.97

00:07:04.660 But it was good to see a petition go forward.

00:07:06.800 And more importantly, good to see a voice from the mainstream political debate saying,

00:07:11.900 you know what, this has to stop.

00:07:13.420 Here was a little bit of the video that she posted accompanying the petition.

00:07:17.340 Every Canadian watching this will have sacrificed something over the last year during the COVID-19 pandemic.

00:07:23.980 The good news is that a year into the pandemic, the world has tools to prevent the spread of COVID-19

00:07:30.560 and to protect those who are most vulnerable to it in a much better way.

00:07:35.260 We have things like rapid tests.

00:07:37.360 We have things like vaccines.

00:07:39.020 And we have things like therapeutics.

00:07:40.460 We didn't have a year ago.

00:07:42.440 And we have better data now to understand how COVID-19 spreads, what it is, and how to prevent it.

00:07:49.960 A year into the pandemic, after many have lost their lives or lost their jobs or are having a hard time with their mental health,

00:07:59.700 it's time that we have some hope.

00:08:01.400 I think that at this point, after a year, it is more than reasonable for leaders across the country,

00:08:08.820 but particularly in the federal government, to be providing a plan to Canadians to tell us how they're going to use these new tools,

00:08:18.020 deploy them in a widespread fashion, so that we can stop the never-ending and uncertain threat of more and deeper COVID-19 restrictions.

00:08:30.120 And admittedly, it's kind of a depressing petition, but it's more depressing in the sense of what it's coming in the context of.

00:08:36.700 The orders are to immediately present a clear plan to get Canadians safely out of lockdown,

00:08:42.820 and that this plan include data-driven goals, a plan of action, and a timeline to achieve those goals,

00:08:49.120 and ensure the plan is articulated to Canadians so they have hope about when life and business will return to normal.

00:08:56.880 And just to put this in context here, 51% of Canadian businesses are uncertain they can remain open,

00:09:03.000 according to the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

00:09:05.620 And I don't know if this is exactly a scientific poll, but still, it's from a survey on business conditions,

00:09:11.160 talking to business owners, and half of Canadian businesses,

00:09:15.300 half of Canadian businesses are saying,

00:09:17.700 you know what, we might have to shut down before the end of the year.

00:09:21.580 And part of what I was talking about earlier with the Assaulted documentary

00:09:25.300 is talking to gun owners who are affected, and gun business owners too,

00:09:29.260 affected by government policies that have basically written off their businesses.

00:09:33.440 Well, if 50% of businesses in Canada are saying they can't see a future for themselves,

00:09:38.520 this is gun businesses, this is restaurants, this is pharmacies, retail outlets,

00:09:42.960 this is any number of enterprise in Canada.

00:09:46.920 And what's going to happen, and this is where you start going down that road,

00:09:50.200 where a lot of people have said it before, of the cure being worse than the disease,

00:09:54.220 because a lot of people simply do not see a future under the economic conditions right now

00:10:00.340 that are being created by the government.

00:10:02.000 And you can't just keep everyone on the, whatever CERB became, I think the CRB,

00:10:07.900 you can't just keep everyone on the government benefit program indefinitely,

00:10:12.180 as though that is a substitute for a society and a culture and a country

00:10:16.200 in which people can go around, businesses can open their doors,

00:10:19.600 people can live their lives as close to normally as possible.

00:10:23.260 And the way we get to normal is very important.

00:10:26.700 I want to just talk briefly about this admission from Health Minister Paddy Haidu

00:10:31.520 that apparently G7 nations are very seriously considering the idea of vaccine passports,

00:10:37.860 which is basically a proof of vaccination that you need to go and live your life normally.

00:10:42.660 And this is what Minister Haidu said on CTV.

00:10:44.960 Health Minister Paddy Haidu telling CTV's Question Period that a COVID-19 vaccination passport

00:10:50.680 is a very live discussion among G7 countries.

00:10:54.060 The International Association of Transportation is looking at exactly that.

00:10:59.780 What kind of evidence or documents do people have to provide in order to resume international travel?

00:11:05.560 Now, less than two months ago, Justin Trudeau called the idea of vaccine passports divisive.

00:11:11.360 He said there was no plan to do it.

00:11:13.280 It's not going to happen.

00:11:14.260 That's not the road we're going down.

00:11:16.100 And now we have Health Minister Paddy Haidu,

00:11:18.460 who is not saying clearly in the interview whether Canada is considering it,

00:11:22.920 although is saying that the discussion is being had by G7 countries in which Canada is a part.

00:11:28.880 Now, there are two aspects of this.

00:11:30.680 There's whether you would have something like this domestically

00:11:33.240 and whether you'd have it internationally.

00:11:36.060 And I am a firm believer in countries' rights to secure their own borders.

00:11:39.940 So the reality of this is that a country like Israel, a country like the UK, 0.76

00:11:44.700 a country like France or whatever could very easily say,

00:11:48.140 we will not take tourists unless they have a vaccine.

00:11:51.620 And in that case, even if Canada isn't a part of a vaccine passport,

00:11:55.740 Canada has to play by that.

00:11:57.480 And this is the problem with global politics becoming the norm.

00:12:01.400 This is the problem with international institutions getting to call the shots

00:12:04.960 instead of just sovereign states deciding what's right for themselves.

00:12:08.160 Because if there is an international push for this, like at the G7 level or even larger,

00:12:13.500 then we're going to see Canada having to go along with it.

00:12:17.320 And for example, Air Canada could say, well, you know, we don't care.

00:12:21.180 We don't need a vaccine passport to fly to us.

00:12:23.440 But if the destination you want to go on your Air Canada flight to requires it,

00:12:27.460 you're kind of stuck in that.

00:12:29.020 So even if Canada doesn't go down the road of requiring this domestically,

00:12:33.860 it's still going to be something that I'm confident people are going to have to have

00:12:37.740 because the world seems to be moving in that direction.

00:12:41.720 And there is a significant challenge here that the world is moving more towards this place

00:12:46.940 where we don't have a respect for civil liberties.

00:12:49.300 We don't have a respect for individuality.

00:12:51.340 We don't have a respect for the right to work, the right to have your business open.

00:12:56.980 And those will be long-lasting effects of this.

00:13:01.480 We hear a lot of talk about the long COVID,

00:13:03.660 people who have symptoms of COVID long after their diagnosis.

00:13:06.960 Well, we also have the long pandemic,

00:13:09.180 which is governments continuing to impose conditions and restrictions on people

00:13:13.420 long after the public health emergency has elapsed.

00:13:16.560 And that's the direction we're headed now.

00:13:18.380 And it's a dangerous one and why we need to see more political leadership

00:13:22.240 pushing back against these lockdowns and pushing back against these restrictions.

00:13:26.660 So I commend Michelle Rempel for doing it. 1.00

00:13:28.760 I want to see more of her colleagues, not just sponsoring petitions,

00:13:31.460 but introducing motions, actually vocally calling out governments

00:13:35.780 that continue to use non-scientific measures to restrict things

00:13:40.660 in the so-called name of public health

00:13:42.540 that aren't actually amounting to all that much in the success against COVID-19.

00:13:48.380 We've got to take a break.

00:13:49.360 When we come back, more of The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:13:54.240 You're tuned in to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:14:00.440 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:14:03.020 I want to shift to an issue that is a personal one,

00:14:07.020 but one that has become political.

00:14:09.040 Isn't that that old feminist axiom that the personal is the political? 1.00

00:14:12.480 Well, that's never been truer on this issue.

00:14:15.020 As some of you may know and some of you may not know,

00:14:18.200 I actually don't know what you know,

00:14:19.600 I am a suicide survivor.

00:14:21.600 About 10 years ago, more than that actually,

00:14:23.880 at the end of 2010,

00:14:25.320 I was nearly successful in attempting to take my own life.

00:14:29.960 And as far as the reasons and the circumstances go,

00:14:33.180 they're not particularly relevant to this discussion,

00:14:35.820 except for the fact that I was dealing with,

00:14:37.720 for several years, rather serious depression.

00:14:40.420 So serious, in fact, that I thought that my life would be better served by being over

00:14:45.000 than by continuing.

00:14:46.980 Why this is relevant now is that the Liberal government

00:14:50.660 is entertaining a Senate amendment to a bill expanding access to assisted death.

00:14:56.280 And one of the amendments makes it so that someone whose sole issue

00:14:59.400 is dealing with mental illness could access medical assisted death,

00:15:04.360 could access assisted suicide in the healthcare system.

00:15:07.480 Someone with depression, where we would normally say,

00:15:10.600 well, here are all the reasons you shouldn't end your life,

00:15:12.860 would now be given the means to do it.

00:15:15.420 Now, the implications of this on the mental healthcare system are significant.

00:15:18.880 The Canadian Mental Health Association,

00:15:20.860 which is not generally a political body at all,

00:15:23.380 has come out against this saying that,

00:15:25.080 well, we're a recovery organization.

00:15:26.840 We can't accept legislation that views mental illnesses as irremediable,

00:15:32.000 which is really at the cornerstone of assisted death.

00:15:35.220 You have to have something that is not going to get better.

00:15:38.560 Well, to go back to my own story, as a suicide survivor,

00:15:41.760 I was 110% convinced that there was no way my life could get better.

00:15:46.760 And that's why I had to try to take my life.

00:15:50.820 And this is so heartbreaking when I think of how the government

00:15:53.980 is actually going down the road of suicide promotion rather than prevention.

00:15:59.200 They are fostering what is really a culture

00:16:02.440 that is the one we've been trying to fight against.

00:16:04.780 Think of how many billions of dollars have been spent

00:16:07.200 on mental illness awareness campaigns,

00:16:09.500 on different treatment programs, expanding access to care.

00:16:12.740 And all behind that is the message to people that,

00:16:15.580 hey, you're loved.

00:16:16.660 We want to help you.

00:16:17.840 We want to reach out and help you.

00:16:19.100 So for the government to turn around and say,

00:16:22.100 as they are saying, in effect, by accepting this amendment,

00:16:26.580 that, you know what? 1.00

00:16:28.320 If you want to take your life, you want to kill yourself, 1.00

00:16:30.800 that's completely your choice. 1.00

00:16:33.280 Have at it.

00:16:33.960 Have fun.

00:16:34.600 We'll even help you do it.

00:16:35.980 Now, this is something that would never fly

00:16:38.320 if they had put this in the original text of the bill.

00:16:41.120 But I almost wonder if it was intentional,

00:16:42.960 if this was orchestrated so that they didn't actually have to have

00:16:46.140 any parliamentary scrutiny over it

00:16:48.020 if they had put it forward right at the very,

00:16:51.300 right at the outset with this.

00:16:52.420 I want to talk about the process and the implications of this

00:16:55.260 with MP Garnett Janis, Conservative Member of Parliament,

00:16:58.380 who has done a lot of great work on this issue.

00:17:01.200 Garnett, good to talk to you.

00:17:02.100 Thanks very much for coming on today.

00:17:03.520 And I should say that we were actually speaking about this

00:17:06.380 on your show last night, on your Facebook page.

00:17:09.700 And I'm glad to be back in our respective normal chairs here

00:17:13.040 with you being interviewed by me.

00:17:14.500 It's good to have you.

00:17:15.560 Well, thank you, Andrew.

00:17:16.300 It's so great to be with you this morning.

00:17:18.120 Now, you've actually wanted to get people to tell their stories.

00:17:21.980 That was part of why you had invited me

00:17:23.940 to go on your Facebook stream last night.

00:17:26.620 And I know you've done this with other people

00:17:28.120 and are continuing to do it.

00:17:29.400 You've launched a website, tellmetostay.ca.

00:17:32.300 What is that?

00:17:33.240 We've reached out to people to ask them to share their stories,

00:17:36.680 their personal stories related to mental health challenges

00:17:40.320 and how they think C7 would affect them

00:17:42.980 or could have affected them at past moments of crisis.

00:17:46.960 And we've gotten over 70 stories already from Canadians

00:17:50.780 who have personal experiences that they're prepared to share.

00:17:53.740 So we had a press conference with a number of those folks on Monday.

00:17:56.700 We're doing Facebook Lives on my page every night this week,

00:18:00.300 sharing those stories.

00:18:01.500 We're not going to have enough time to share all of them,

00:18:04.360 but I really salute people who have the courage to come forward

00:18:08.100 and share their personal experiences.

00:18:10.060 And then just on the process side,

00:18:11.800 because I think it is important that the government

00:18:13.200 is trying to rush this through, relatively speaking,

00:18:15.640 in the dead of night,

00:18:17.300 that we had a bill that specifically excluded

00:18:21.720 medical assistance in dying for those with mental health challenges.

00:18:28.000 That was amended by the Senate.

00:18:29.660 And then at the last minute, the government said,

00:18:31.400 yeah, we're going to accept the Senate amendment.

00:18:33.480 They decided to do that in a motion that was published late on a Tuesday night,

00:18:38.020 pardon me, on a Monday night.

00:18:38.900 And then they expected the House to pass it the following day.

00:18:41.580 Just totally outrageous, their expectation that between announcing this change

00:18:46.180 in position in the adoption of the House of Commons,

00:18:47.920 they could push that through within 24 hours.

00:18:51.380 And they kept trying different procedural things to rush this through.

00:18:55.440 And we've said, no, we need to hear from Canadians on this.

00:19:00.220 This is an issue that should at least be studied by a parliamentary committee.

00:19:04.600 This is a dramatic change in how our society would operate,

00:19:08.700 from one in which people with mental health challenges are offered suicide prevention,

00:19:13.560 to one in which people with those mental health challenges

00:19:15.700 could be offered suicide facilitation by our public health care system.

00:19:20.980 And that is a very important point.

00:19:23.140 And one of the things I raised when you and I were speaking last night

00:19:25.860 is that I'm convinced that if a committee were to hear the stories

00:19:30.600 of people who themselves are survivors of suicide,

00:19:33.760 people that have lost someone to suicide,

00:19:35.320 there's no way in a million years they could actually get on board with passing this.

00:19:39.780 And it almost seems deliberate in that way for this to come about

00:19:43.060 without that process, without the opportunity to hear from witness testimony.

00:19:48.820 Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:50.520 The House of Commons committee that was studying this,

00:19:52.900 by the way, the House of Commons committee study on it was quite limited as well,

00:19:55.840 because the whole story of this bill is

00:19:57.540 you have a particular court decision in Quebec, the Truchon decision.

00:20:02.360 Now, we think that should have been appealed to the Supreme Court.

00:20:04.420 But in any event, the government decided to legislate on the basis of that decision.

00:20:08.260 But then they dramatically expanded the issues that were in that piece of legislation.

00:20:12.600 So the Truchon decision dealt with the issue of reasonable foreseeability.

00:20:16.360 The government removed a whole bunch of safeguards.

00:20:18.960 And they said, we have to rush this bill through to make the court timeline.

00:20:21.860 Well, if you want to worry about the court timeline,

00:20:24.120 then how about you legislate in a way that specifically responds to the court and nothing else,

00:20:28.180 instead of throwing a whole bunch of other issues.

00:20:30.360 And then this is just the continuation of the story,

00:20:32.120 which is the government adding in the mental health piece at this late stage

00:20:36.080 with no House of Commons committee study on that issue at all.

00:20:41.980 And then them again using the excuse of the court deadline,

00:20:44.640 even though very clearly they're continually expanding the scope.

00:20:48.020 The Truchon decision had nothing to do with the mental health piece at all.

00:20:52.380 That expansion is key because I remember when the very first legislation was put forward,

00:20:58.960 there were all of these safeguards.

00:21:01.240 And most people on the left were understanding that,

00:21:04.440 yeah, you know, we need to have these safeguards,

00:21:06.080 we need to have these restrictions.

00:21:08.380 And those have been continuing to break down.

00:21:11.280 And now with the mental health case that we're talking about now,

00:21:14.880 even beyond things that weren't even talked about,

00:21:17.060 things that were actually laughed at when someone were to bring them up.

00:21:21.240 Because I remember I brought this up the first time around and was told,

00:21:23.480 no, no, no, it's never, we're never going down that road.

00:21:25.800 That's never going to happen.

00:21:27.220 And you have to be concerned about where it's going to go from here.

00:21:31.920 Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:32.980 I mean, I've been a parliamentarian for, since 2015.

00:21:36.020 So it was, you know, relatively short time.

00:21:38.620 And yet I'm old enough to remember a time when liberals said

00:21:42.700 the safeguards they're now removing were so vitally important.

00:21:46.620 I don't think the safeguards in the original bill were sufficient.

00:21:50.740 And there were a number of proposals that we had put forward around that.

00:21:54.720 But some of the, you know, the very basic things like a 10-day reflection period.

00:21:59.400 The existing law has a 10-day reflection period.

00:22:01.780 That reflection period can be waived with the agreement of the two doctors involved.

00:22:07.360 So it's not a hard and fast rule,

00:22:09.820 but it's kind of a default position that you would have a 10-day reflection period.

00:22:12.840 This new version of the bill proposes to do away with the reflection period.

00:22:18.620 It proposes to reduce the requirements for independent witnesses.

00:22:23.940 And that in addition to creating a situation where people with disabilities,

00:22:30.000 people with mental health challenges are much more likely to be moved in this direction.

00:22:35.680 But, you know, the current system still has problems with it.

00:22:38.600 I mean, we already had testimony from people living with disabilities who were pushed in

00:22:43.380 this direction, who repeatedly had euthanasia brought up to them,

00:22:49.400 even though they had said they didn't want it.

00:22:51.380 A case of a lady being told that she was selfish because her daughter didn't want to go in this direction.

00:22:59.120 So, you know, people champion this on the basis of autonomy,

00:23:03.120 but the social context in which that autonomy is expressed matters a lot.

00:23:07.520 And now with the risk that people facing mental health challenges could be pressured or encouraged in this direction,

00:23:15.040 or even that just the suicide prevention piece would be removed,

00:23:19.500 it raises very serious concerns about the direction we're going,

00:23:22.740 and so quickly from where we said we were in 2015-16.

00:23:27.700 You know, this would be a rare, exceptional case for, you know, terminally ill people to where we are now.

00:23:37.820 One of the things, when you mentioned the reflection period,

00:23:40.800 as I understand it in this bill,

00:23:42.720 one of the things that could happen is a same-day request that could be fulfilled.

00:23:47.020 Is that correct?

00:23:47.660 Yeah, so, and there's some different categories.

00:23:51.300 So the legislation proposes to divide between the category of death reasonably foreseeable

00:23:56.320 and death not reasonably foreseeable.

00:23:58.440 And the concept of reasonably foreseeability has always been a little bit fuzzy

00:24:04.240 because it doesn't explicitly refer to someone being terminal.

00:24:10.620 But this legislation removes the 10-day reflection period

00:24:14.720 or any kind of time-associated safeguard for those for whom death is reasonably foreseeable, so-called.

00:24:22.120 So it does mean in that case that a person could request and receive euthanasia on the same day.

00:24:28.460 And I don't think that makes sense.

00:24:30.100 I don't think it makes sense that someone's worst day could be their last,

00:24:33.680 that you could visit a family member in the hospital on Wednesday,

00:24:37.500 think everything's fine,

00:24:38.740 and then come back on Friday to find that,

00:24:40.520 well, this was their request, and so we carried it out right away.

00:24:45.280 I don't think that's sort of in line with a reasoned consideration of what autonomy looks like,

00:24:51.160 which is people being given the time and space to consider their options over a certain period of time.

00:24:57.200 You talked earlier about suicide prevention objectives,

00:25:00.560 and this is something that's not lost on me.

00:25:02.540 The government has put billions of dollars into this.

00:25:05.340 We have billions of dollars put into this through charitable campaigns and efforts.

00:25:09.000 We've got colored ribbon campaigns for suicide awareness and prevention.

00:25:13.220 We've got committees, councils, ads, all of these things that are trying to serve the public

00:25:19.860 by telling people to reach out for help if you want to take your life because of mental illness.

00:25:25.560 And has the government given any indication of how it reconciles these two positions?

00:25:32.040 On one hand, this, I'd say vastly expanding public discussion about mental illness and suicide,

00:25:39.840 and then this, which is saying that, you know what, if you're dealing with depression,

00:25:43.400 that could be grounds for you to get a doctor-assisted death.

00:25:49.300 Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.

00:25:52.780 And, you know, has it been discussed?

00:25:55.060 Has the government considered the implications of this?

00:25:57.520 You know, if they've thought about it, they certainly haven't talked about it,

00:26:02.060 because this has had very limited debate so far,

00:26:04.560 and the government is trying everything they can to justify rushing this through

00:26:09.400 without that kind of consideration and discussion.

00:26:12.700 Andrew, one of the concerns I have is that people who are struggling with mental health challenges,

00:26:18.820 are experiencing suicidal thoughts, may be less likely to seek help

00:26:24.240 if they're concerned that visiting their doctor might actually not lead to them being encouraged to live,

00:26:36.180 but them being offered the option of death.

00:26:40.640 I think that this undermines what we want to see, which is people in those crisis situations

00:26:46.260 reaching out to support structures that can kind of help them through some of the things they're experiencing.

00:26:54.580 Let me just go to a bit of a civics question here.

00:26:57.680 You have talked about the fact that this really bypassed the House of Commons Committee

00:27:01.620 and the rabid pace at which this was accepted by the government in the House from the Senate recommendations.

00:27:08.020 What's the next step on this now?

00:27:10.640 Yeah, so on the civics side, the way our system works, bicameral system, 0.99

00:27:16.480 every bill has to pass both the House and the Senate in identical form.

00:27:21.520 So a bill can start either place.

00:27:24.380 More often legislation starts in the House of Commons.

00:27:26.920 It's adopted in a certain form.

00:27:28.800 It goes to the Senate.

00:27:29.680 If the Senate adopts it, then it goes to the Governor General and becomes law.

00:27:34.260 If the Senate amends it, then it's referred back to the House of Commons and we have a motion on Senate amendments.

00:27:43.420 And typically, in these cases, as we see right now, the government has a motion which agrees with some of the Senate amendments,

00:27:51.720 maybe doesn't agree with some of those amendments, and modifies others.

00:27:55.200 So in this case, it says the government respectfully disagrees with A and B, agrees with C, proposes the following changes to D and E, something like that.

00:28:06.620 That motion will be debated in the House of Commons.

00:28:11.040 That motion itself could be amended.

00:28:12.740 So the motion on Senate amendments could be amended.

00:28:15.140 And right now, we have a conservative amendment which seeks to change the government's motion on Senate amendments in terms of which amendments they're agreeing with and not agreeing with.

00:28:25.320 Typically, in some form, the government's motion on Senate amendments will pass and then go back to the Senate.

00:28:34.200 Because if the government agreed with all of the Senate amendments, then we'd be done.

00:28:38.780 But if the government agrees with some and disagrees with others, then we still don't have agreement.

00:28:44.880 So then it goes back to the Senate, and then the Senate considers whether to adopt the House of Commons kind of revised version or to, in effect, make a counterproposal.

00:28:59.460 So you can think of it sort of like a negotiation between the two chambers where each one has to debate and then conclude on a position and then send that position back and forth.

00:29:10.940 Now, there are some complex procedures in the standing orders if we get to a point where there just seem to be irreconcilable differences.

00:29:20.960 In the time I've been a member of Parliament, it's kind of at most gone one, two, three, four.

00:29:26.200 House, Senate, then a House motion to concur some and others, and then back to the Senate for final agreement.

00:29:32.500 That's what happened actually with Bill C-14, the original euthanasia legislation.

00:29:37.060 And, you know, we'll see how this unfolds on Bill C-7.

00:29:43.700 But in a minority parliament, with some indication that some liberals are uncomfortable with the direction of the government on this mental health issue,

00:29:52.700 it's really important for people to seize this moment now, to talk to their MPs, and to ask them to rethink this facilitated suicide for the mentally ill proposal that has been added on to C-7 at the last minute.

00:30:11.280 Well, I appreciate the explanation there, and also your work on this conservative MP, Garnet Janus.

00:30:16.620 Always a pleasure, Garnet. Thanks for coming on.

00:30:18.400 Thank you, Andrew. Appreciate the opportunity.

00:30:19.700 My thanks again to Garnet for coming on the show today, and to all of you for tuning in.

00:30:24.800 We'll be back in a couple of days with more of Canada's most irreverent talk show.

00:30:28.640 This is the Andrew Lawton Show on True North.

00:30:30.760 Thank you, God bless, and good day, Canada.

00:30:33.120 Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:35.260 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:30:40.460 production by heart, beer, and happy John R material from C-7 at investigate Google.

00:30:45.240 Bye, everybody.

00:30:45.560 Come on, God bless.

00:30:46.860 Bye, everybody.

00:30:47.200 Bye, everybody.

00:30:47.720 Bye, everybody.

00:30:48.140 Bye, everybody.

00:30:49.900 Bye, everybody.

00:30:50.420 Bye, everybody.

00:30:51.360 Bye, everybody.

00:30:52.500 Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:30:53.560 Bye.

00:30:54.920 Bye, everybody.

00:30:55.980 Bye-bye.

00:30:57.180 Bye.

00:30:58.120 Bye.

00:30:59.100 Bye.

00:30:59.260 Bye.

00:31:00.480 Bye, everybody.

00:31:01.760 Bye, everybody.

00:31:03.220 Bye, everybody.

00:31:04.120 Bye.

00:31:04.840 Bye, everybody.

00:31:05.200 Bye, herman.

00:31:06.960 Bye, are we?

00:31:07.460 Bye, bye.

00:31:08.220 Bye, bye, mama.

Juno News - March 09, 2021

Vaccine Passports and the Permanent Lockdown

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