Juno News - October 24, 2022


Week 2 of Emergencies Act hearing highlights

Mentioned
Wilson Watson
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Episode Stats


Length

11 minutes

Words per minute

155.25

Word count

1,748

Sentence count

154

Harmful content

Toxicity

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

On February 14th, 2014, thousands of people took to the streets of downtown Ottawa to protest the lack of police presence in the downtown core of the city. Mayor Jim Watson, the police chief at the time, said that protesters were blocking traffic and blocking access to the city's downtown core, and that the situation would only get worse when the federal government invoked the Emergencies Act. On this episode of the podcast, we speak with former Ottawa Police Service Board Chair Eli Al-Shanthir about the events leading up to the day of the incident, and what happened afterwards.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.560 And then the next day, he asks whether that's telling you that the truckers want to move 40-plus trucks.
00:00:07.400 Tomorrow, starting in the morning, they have room on Wellington to fit it.
00:00:12.400 That would just about clear out almost all of the residential areas.
00:00:16.200 And you then advise him that you're having some issues, if you could scroll down,
00:00:21.040 with the Parliamentary Protection Services and the new interim chief is engaged.
00:00:27.780 And you'll know more tomorrow morning, and we'll share that with him.
00:00:31.760 You then, after that, on February 16th, as I understand it,
00:00:36.980 you ask him if he's available for a call, and you have a phone conversation with Mr. Wilson.
00:00:41.640 Isn't that correct?
00:00:43.720 According to this, yes. I don't recall it, but yes.
00:00:46.060 Yeah. And in that phone conversation, as I understand, you apologized that the deal fell apart
00:00:52.300 because of some issues arising with the Parliamentary Security Services,
00:00:58.560 and that it was not the protesters' fault. Isn't that correct?
00:01:04.060 I don't recall saying that specifically, because I don't have a record of it.
00:01:08.040 But I remember we did have a conversation of that.
00:01:10.900 I was disappointed that we couldn't move more trucks out of the neighborhood.
00:01:13.820 Right. And it's fair to say that at all times, through all of this,
00:01:18.680 Mr. Wilson was engaged with you, and he acted in good faith with you, in your mind?
00:01:22.740 He did.
00:01:23.520 And he did everything he could in his power in order to move these trucks?
00:01:28.960 He did.
00:01:29.780 Right. And these individuals tried to move their trucks under the agreement onto Wellington,
00:01:35.760 and it was the OPS who didn't allow it.
00:01:38.620 Well, I don't know if it was OPS or PPS.
00:01:43.560 I'm not sure how that worked, ultimately, but events had overtaken that day.
00:01:49.900 As you know, by that time, Chiefs slowly had resigned,
00:01:52.940 and I was made aware that Ottawa Police and the other police service were getting ready
00:02:00.720 to move into tactical operations.
00:02:02.360 So at that point, I think that was probably the greater reason
00:02:05.980 why they stopped moving trucks up on Wellington Street.
00:02:09.880 Now, on February 14th, we know that the Emergencies Act was invoked.
00:02:13.560 Were you consulted on the invocation of the Emergencies Act before it was invoked?
00:02:19.180 No, it wasn't.
00:02:20.040 Okay.
00:02:20.660 Did the city request that it be invoked?
00:02:23.100 No.
00:02:24.300 Did the city weigh in on whether it was required, necessary, or needed?
00:02:27.840 Well, when it was released, I think, like most people,
00:02:31.780 very few people knew exactly what the Emergencies Act was, to be perfectly honest.
00:02:36.480 I remember growing up in Quebec what the War Measures Act was
00:02:39.300 and the implications that had for the province of Quebec and the rest of the country.
00:02:44.100 But no one had raised the Emergencies Act with us.
00:02:50.200 But when it was invoked, and I was briefed on what its powers were,
00:02:57.240 I thought this is a very positive step to getting this situation resolved once and for all
00:03:04.400 because of the provisions in the Act.
00:03:05.980 So I very much supported it.
00:03:09.120 And I was, as you may recall, the current chair of the Police Service Board, Eli Al-Shanthir,
00:03:16.140 and I sent a letter to the Prime Minister thanking him for invoking the Act
00:03:19.200 because it actually acted as the catalyst for us to move forward
00:03:22.900 and get that whole situation in the downtown core resolved once and for all
00:03:28.620 and give people their street and their homes back.
00:03:30.860 Mayor Watson, let me just ask you.
00:03:32.620 Okay. You told us earlier today where evidence came out that these protesters,
00:03:40.420 they were nasty, they were hateful, and they were vulgar. 0.64
00:03:45.840 Is that right? 0.99
00:03:46.860 Yes.
00:03:48.480 And you said that you saw, or you said that they had ripped masks off of people?
00:03:54.940 Yes.
00:03:56.140 Did you actually see that?
00:03:58.180 No, I saw it reported in the media.
00:04:00.960 Okay.
00:04:01.200 And I think you also said that certain people were attacked.
00:04:06.520 Is that right?
00:04:07.420 I didn't say that, no.
00:04:08.940 I said that I had death threats, but I wasn't physically attacked.
00:04:14.140 No, I didn't say that you were attacked, but you said that these protesters were attacking people.
00:04:18.540 Did you not say that?
00:04:19.940 No.
00:04:21.540 They were disrupting people's lives, that's for sure.
00:04:24.180 And they refused on at least three occasions that I'm aware of that they refused to adhere to the provincial mandate
00:04:32.000 of wearing a mask when going into a shop or a restaurant.
00:04:36.660 So you're not aware of any incidents of physical violence from the protesters?
00:04:40.100 Well, you'd have to ask the police.
00:04:42.740 I know they arrested a couple hundred people and charged a couple hundred people.
00:04:46.820 I don't know what the charges were, so I'm not privy to that information.
00:04:51.520 According to your knowledge?
00:04:52.460 You don't know of any?
00:04:57.240 I'm sorry, I don't know of any?
00:04:59.080 Of any physical attacks?
00:05:01.360 Not to my own personal knowledge, no.
00:05:03.240 Is it not true that the protest leaders were actually concerned about maintaining the safety lanes
00:05:11.900 and raised that with you?
00:05:14.500 They did.
00:05:15.280 Right.
00:05:15.800 And they wanted to ensure that the lanes were open so that emergency vehicles could always get through?
00:05:21.500 Correct.
00:05:22.220 Right.
00:05:22.860 And the protest leaders cooperated with you and the city in maintaining those safety lanes, right?
00:05:28.820 Yes.
00:05:29.360 Right.
00:05:29.600 And they maintained them?
00:05:31.000 For the most part, yes.
00:05:31.940 And when new trucks would even arrive, they even organized to talk with what they referred to as block captains.
00:05:39.740 Did they relay that to you?
00:05:41.100 No.
00:05:41.640 All right.
00:05:42.160 But when new vehicles had arrived, to your knowledge, you agree that they always organized to make sure that those safety lanes were open?
00:05:52.220 Yes.
00:05:54.100 So we were trying to determine the size, the impact of the protest, etc.
00:06:01.940 Now, that's for all.
00:06:04.100 Now, also, in terms of being armed, I want to be clear on this.
00:06:07.620 We had no—we produced no intelligence to indicate that these individuals would be armed.
00:06:14.880 And there has been a lot of hyperbole about that.
00:06:19.680 That was something we wished to in the—when people think about what happened in January 6th of 2020, that is presence of mind.
00:06:30.920 But we produced no intelligence to indicate that that would be the case.
00:06:34.420 I understand.
00:06:35.960 What can you tell us about—was that just a worry, or were you actually seeing sort of threatening or aggressive behavior right at the outset?
00:06:46.320 So first, coming across Canada—and I'm going to speak bluntly, but I have to say that—I'm trying to be blunt, but I don't have all the facts in relation to this.
00:06:58.060 Because there was almost no reported criminal activity of any of this activity coming across Canada.
00:07:07.140 There was a motor vehicle collision on the day before the event, and that had to do with somebody running into somebody who was in the Freedom Convoy.
00:07:13.220 So it was conspicuous for the absolute lack of criminal activity.
00:07:18.180 You didn't see any evidence in the intelligence of espionage or in support of espionage. Is that correct?
00:07:25.480 That's correct.
00:07:26.820 You didn't see any evidence in the intelligence of sabotage or anything in support of sabotage?
00:07:32.560 That's correct.
00:07:33.980 You didn't see anything in the evidence—any evidence in the intelligence of any form of foreign-influenced activities within or relating to Canada that involved the threat to any person?
00:07:44.540 Yes. I saw media accounts, yes. I saw no information collected or intelligence produced in that regard, no, to support that, no.
00:07:54.260 Now, for my following question, when I say serious violence against a person, you'll understand I mean violence that would result in serious personal injury, okay?
00:08:04.780 You didn't see any evidence in the intelligence of activities within or relating to Canada directed toward or in support of the threat of a use of acts of serious violence against persons for the purpose of achieving a political, religious, or ideological objective within Canada or a foreign state.
00:08:25.080 So, yes, I know where you're going, and I want it to be fair to my colleagues in planning.
00:08:31.220 I saw online rhetoric. I saw information on social media. I saw assertions of that type of activity. Information.
00:08:42.420 I'm aware of no intelligence that was produced that would support concern in that regard.
00:08:50.560 Thank you. And now, for my next question, when I say serious violence against property, you'll understand I mean violence against property of the nature such as arson or destruction, a bomb, that sort of thing, okay?
00:09:05.000 You didn't see any evidence in the intelligence of activities within or relating to Canada directed toward or in support of the threat of use of acts of serious violence against property for the purpose of achieving a political, religious, or ideological objective within Canada or a foreign state.
00:09:22.460 So, again, not to be contradictory because I'm just trying to be fulsome.
00:09:26.720 Our role is crime prevention, law enforcement, assistance to victims, public order, and emergency management.
00:09:34.900 Therefore, in relation to the things you're discussing, we collected all the information, which some information asserted attempts at that.
00:09:43.860 So, we did see that and had to consider that.
00:09:47.640 Did we have any credible intelligence that that would occur? No.
00:09:51.880 You stated earlier that you did have tow trucks lined up and that they were on their way to Ottawa prior to the invocation of the Emergencies Act. Isn't that true?
00:09:59.660 Yes.
00:10:01.940 And your interview summary says that OPS knew that if it arrived with tow trucks, many protesters would leave because the trucks were their home and livelihood. Do you stand by that statement?
00:10:12.700 I do.
00:10:13.660 All right. Those are my questions. Thank you.
00:10:15.300 In your view, was the Emergencies Act necessary to end the protests in Ottawa?
00:10:24.180 Well, that's a loaded question. I'm a police officer. Parliament gives us legislation. We don't make legislation. They provide it to us and we use it to the best of our abilities.
00:10:35.420 They gave us a piece of legislation to use. We were thankful for it and we used it to the best of our abilities to incorporate in our plan.
00:10:42.780 And in your view, was there a police solution to the demonstrations?
00:10:48.660 A police solution?
00:10:50.280 Yes.
00:10:50.860 Policing solution?
00:10:52.000 There was a solution and we reached that solution. We had some help with the EMCPA, the Emergency Humanity Civil Protection Act regulations that we have with the province and the Emergencies Act.
00:11:02.960 But in my humble opinion, we would have reached the same solution with the plan that we had without either of those pieces of legislation.
00:11:12.180 In, within, around the same timeline?
00:11:14.520 Yes.
00:11:14.740 Okay.
00:11:15.500 Okay.
00:11:15.540 Okay.