Juno News - April 08, 2024


Western provinces are taking a stand for gun owners


Episode Stats


Length

34 minutes

Words per minute

182.41476

Word count

6,347

Sentence count

380

Harmful content

Hate speech

3

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show, host Andrew Lawton is joined by the Chief Firearms Officer of Saskatchewan, Murray Cowan, and Robert Freeberg, who have been appointed as the new Firearms Commissioner of Saskatchewan.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:05.080 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.100 Hello and welcome to you all, Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show here,
00:00:16.700 The Andrew Lawton Show on True North on this Monday, April 8th, 2024.
00:00:21.940 I will just warn you right up front, because I'm worried that there will be some big calamitous thing
00:00:27.100 that takes place Monday morning, and this show will be dated.
00:00:30.540 This is the exception to the rule. This show is actually pre-recorded.
00:00:33.740 I am on my way right now. Well, actually, I'm in Ottawa.
00:00:36.720 I had to tend to something that I will give you an update on tomorrow,
00:00:40.960 but like tomorrow for you, not tomorrow for me.
00:00:43.040 See, this is why we don't pre-tape. It just gets so confusing.
00:00:45.360 But we are pre-taping the show today, and I'll tell you all about it later this week.
00:00:50.020 But I did want to follow up on a discussion we had on a previous episode
00:00:54.860 that was really interesting, and it was about Saskatchewan
00:00:58.320 and what that province is doing to stand up for the rights of law-abiding gun owners.
00:01:03.860 I spoke about this in broad strokes and kind of the national picture
00:01:06.860 with Rod Giltaka from the Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights.
00:01:10.940 But I thought there was enough going on there with the Saskatchewan government
00:01:14.420 expanding the Firearms Office there and really taking advantage
00:01:18.880 of some of the tools it has in its toolkit as a province
00:01:22.360 to really give the federal government a run for its money,
00:01:26.320 money that the federal government is spending a lot of to do very little,
00:01:30.160 in fact, nothing that will enhance or uphold public safety.
00:01:33.980 So with that, I wanted to welcome into the show Murray Cowan,
00:01:37.440 who is the new Chief Firearms Officer of Saskatchewan,
00:01:40.440 and Robert Freeberg, who had the role up until just a couple of weeks back
00:01:44.440 and has now taken on a new position as the Firearms Commissioner of Saskatchewan.
00:01:49.840 Murray, Robert, good to talk to you both.
00:01:51.260 Well, thanks so much for coming on today.
00:01:52.940 Thanks, Andrew. I'm really glad to be here.
00:01:54.940 Thanks for having us on your program.
00:01:56.860 So let me just first start with you, Murray.
00:01:59.460 In terms of understanding this, for people in the country who aren't firearms owners
00:02:03.560 or even who are but haven't navigated the system as much,
00:02:07.760 what is your role as you envision it?
00:02:10.080 What is this supposed to be?
00:02:11.680 Sure, sure.
00:02:12.320 And as you know, Andrew, it's a brand-new role,
00:02:15.420 so I'm still getting comfortable and learning the ins and outs of everything I'll actually be doing.
00:02:22.880 But primarily, I'm taking some of the workload off of Bob here,
00:02:28.620 and we talked about this quite a bit as I came into the organization,
00:02:34.100 but he was basically wearing two hats,
00:02:36.700 and I couldn't believe how hard he was working to develop this program
00:02:41.600 and to develop the firearms office here in Saskatchewan.
00:02:44.540 So basically what I'm going to be looking at in general is taking over the operational side
00:02:50.820 and kind of providing oversight to the firearms program
00:02:54.900 and looking after the new ballistics lab that we're developing, you know,
00:03:01.340 once it's up and running, and, yeah, just providing general oversight.
00:03:06.480 So, and Bob can probably explain a little more in detail
00:03:09.500 because he's got a better understanding about Salouette,
00:03:11.540 but, yeah, there's different branches of our firearms office now
00:03:15.320 which will focus more for me on the operational side.
00:03:19.740 Yeah, and Anne, I will go to you, Bob, because you obviously had this role previously,
00:03:22.700 and now you're shifting in as part of this expansion to the commissioner role,
00:03:26.840 which is one that's certainly not as familiar to me.
00:03:28.940 What's that, and how do you fit into this landscape now?
00:03:31.920 Well, that's a great question,
00:03:32.940 and the reason the commissioner role came about for a couple of reasons, Andrew,
00:03:37.220 is that we started off just taking over the duties of a chief firearms office
00:03:42.960 which was called opting yen,
00:03:44.700 which is a term that's used across Canada with provinces
00:03:48.660 that decide that they want to appoint their own CFO
00:03:51.640 to administer the firearms program under direction from CFP.
00:03:57.420 We started off in that direction back when they hired me in August of 2020.
00:04:01.320 It was appointed as the CFO in September of 2021,
00:04:05.480 but what we've discovered in getting into the role of round firearms
00:04:10.300 is that there was a lot more needed.
00:04:12.780 Of course, there's advocacy, there's education,
00:04:15.520 but there was also a need from our law enforcement partners
00:04:18.680 to establish, for example, a ballistics lab,
00:04:22.120 also work within a framework of provincial regulations,
00:04:24.960 and the provincial regulations really are mirroring some of the federal regulations
00:04:31.020 or legislation, I should really say, properly.
00:04:34.660 But what we've done is for the administrative expense errors,
00:04:38.320 like some are forgetting to renew their PAL
00:04:40.980 or not recognizing that their firearm is now prohibited
00:04:44.180 because they haven't yet sent any documentation,
00:04:45.940 we've created some offenses out of the province
00:04:48.720 that allows us to deal with those outside of that laying a criminal conviction.
00:04:53.380 So with that, we've developed the SAS Firearms Office,
00:04:57.100 and under that we've developed the pillars like the ballistics lab,
00:05:00.540 the chief firearms officer's lab, our client services unit,
00:05:03.960 and of course our lawyers that work within our legal unit.
00:05:07.360 So when we did that, we came up with the Saskatchewan Farms Act
00:05:11.340 back in April of last year,
00:05:14.100 they put into place a role of a commissioner
00:05:17.060 because really a CFO traditionally isn't dealing with a lot of those issues.
00:05:21.940 So what we've done now with creating a separate ministry or secretariat,
00:05:26.360 as it's defined under legal provincial legislation,
00:05:30.460 what we've done is now they've assigned me as the commissioner.
00:05:33.380 So my duty is just to look from a top-down approach
00:05:36.500 as to what we can do around advocacy,
00:05:38.840 what we can do around supporting the police agencies,
00:05:42.480 what we can do around our legal framework
00:05:46.140 with assisting law enforcement in a number of ways.
00:05:50.600 And of course, the main thing is getting out
00:05:52.760 and spending time with our stakeholders.
00:05:54.840 So this new division of power or division of authority
00:06:00.540 gives me a bit more flexibility to do that,
00:06:03.700 and we can put some of the operational work
00:06:05.640 onto Murray's desk to look after.
00:06:08.980 Well, when you talk about engaging with stakeholders,
00:06:11.200 that's so key.
00:06:12.280 I mean, I'm a firearms owner.
00:06:13.480 I know there are a lot of gun owners that watch and listen to this show,
00:06:16.240 and they feel that certainly at the federal level,
00:06:18.860 they're the ones that are left dealing with the consequences
00:06:21.420 of regulations and legislation,
00:06:22.960 but they don't actually have any real role
00:06:25.700 in advising the government or any meaningful role in that.
00:06:28.720 And I know that, you know, Murray, you're a career police officer,
00:06:32.440 you're a police chief, you understand this,
00:06:34.200 that you've got this set of laws that, you know,
00:06:37.140 gun owners are the only ones following and obeying 0.99
00:06:40.380 that are not doing anything about the people
00:06:42.400 that are being arrested in downtown Toronto
00:06:44.120 with an illegal handgun.
00:06:45.220 Sure, sure, Andrew, 100%.
00:06:48.080 You know, our goal here and my goal is certainly
00:06:51.780 to focus on the public safety aspect,
00:06:54.680 but my role is also to support legal and lawful,
00:06:59.360 law-abiding gun owners across the country.
00:07:02.160 And, you know, I may sound like a broken record when I say that,
00:07:05.980 but, you know, lots of folks and the vast majority of gun owners
00:07:11.100 in this country are licensed, vetted, and legal and law-abiding.
00:07:16.960 And, you know, and as you know, we see it as,
00:07:20.540 or I see it as, you know, they're not the problem primarily,
00:07:24.360 but it's the illegal guns, it's the criminals and the folks
00:07:28.980 that aren't going to follow the laws regardless.
00:07:31.900 And, you know, that's part of our work here
00:07:34.620 at the firearms office as well is to, you know,
00:07:38.140 focus on the criminal side of it
00:07:40.700 and work with our policing partners
00:07:43.120 as Rob, or Bob, sorry, already alluded to.
00:07:48.500 Well, you mentioned earlier the ballistics lab.
00:07:51.100 I don't know which of you is best positioned to speak to this,
00:07:53.740 but I actually find this to be tremendously important
00:07:55.740 because I've had trouble as a journalist
00:07:57.740 getting really solid data
00:07:59.840 on where the guns that are used in crime have come from.
00:08:04.260 There seems to be this patchwork across the country.
00:08:06.720 You get some statistics from CBSA
00:08:09.600 and American border officials.
00:08:11.320 You get some from some local police officers.
00:08:13.960 You know, most of it tends to support this idea
00:08:16.060 that the guns used in crime are, by and large,
00:08:18.580 smuggled in across the border.
00:08:19.940 But tracing the origins of guns used in crime,
00:08:23.000 is that not a big part of what this lab will be able to do?
00:08:26.100 Yeah, and I'll speak to that question
00:08:27.840 because I've been involved on that.
00:08:29.600 So we've now put an exec director
00:08:31.500 who comes from the RCMP
00:08:33.380 and comes with a vast experience as an ident person
00:08:36.640 and running the DNA repository in the province and so forth.
00:08:40.580 But one of the goals of the program
00:08:42.720 is to, of course, trace firearms,
00:08:46.440 get the serial numbers off of firearms
00:08:49.320 that have been obliterated
00:08:50.960 using various scientific techniques
00:08:52.940 so we can find out where they're coming from.
00:08:55.200 And to your point, I mean, a lot of these firearms,
00:08:57.900 you know, are not coming from lawful gun owners.
00:08:59.740 They're locking them up and have security systems in their house.
00:09:03.120 Now, granted, there is long guns
00:09:04.480 that have been getting stolen
00:09:05.740 and chopped down and made into modified, prohibited firearms.
00:09:10.520 And we've been doing a big education program around that
00:09:13.100 in Saskatchewan with billboards and advertising and radio
00:09:16.280 saying, you know, secure firearms, safe for communities.
00:09:19.780 We've also spent a lot of time in education
00:09:21.720 going out to gun shows and home shows and other people,
00:09:25.060 you know, reiterating the message
00:09:26.560 that as responsible gun owners,
00:09:28.440 we need to remain vigilant
00:09:29.840 and locking up our firearms.
00:09:31.680 But getting back to the lab question,
00:09:34.000 obviously, yes, the tracing's a big deal.
00:09:37.260 Looking at the brass casings
00:09:38.720 and seeing if they could be tied to a firearm.
00:09:41.040 So you have a crime scene where there's casings.
00:09:43.660 You're, you know, you're entering that into a database.
00:09:45.960 You're finding a gun on the, you know, in the,
00:09:49.120 you know, from a criminal,
00:09:50.040 maybe on a roadside stop or some other arrest.
00:09:52.440 And now you're able to tie that firearm back to that incident.
00:09:56.580 And it gives you a lot more information
00:09:57.940 as to where it came from, how it was tied to a crime.
00:10:00.700 It may be come from Toronto.
00:10:02.260 It could have come from Vancouver.
00:10:04.120 It might have come from Alberta.
00:10:05.660 It might have come from somebody down the street.
00:10:08.680 So, you know, the federal government
00:10:10.980 closed the provincial lab in Saskatchewan many years ago.
00:10:13.640 And our police partners are saying
00:10:15.280 it could take a year or two to get any information back
00:10:17.760 by sending the guns to, you know, RCP lab.
00:10:21.300 So we're excited about having our own facility.
00:10:23.640 We'll, of course, work in partnership with those other labs.
00:10:26.240 But again, having our own facility again
00:10:28.360 here in Saskatchewan is key.
00:10:30.620 And I want to say that I'm very impressed
00:10:32.800 with the provincial government
00:10:33.700 because they're funding our program,
00:10:35.400 $12 million this year,
00:10:37.400 100% coming for the provincial government,
00:10:39.260 not a dime is coming for the federal government.
00:10:42.260 And yet we continue to hear
00:10:43.800 that they're supporting, you know,
00:10:46.680 illegal use of firearms.
00:10:47.820 And yet we're spending $42 million
00:10:50.040 on a gun buyback
00:10:51.380 that hasn't confiscated a single fire.
00:10:54.680 Why are we putting some of that money
00:10:56.260 across Canada into the type of initiatives
00:10:58.800 that we're doing here at Saskatchewan?
00:11:00.880 Well, since you bring up the buyback,
00:11:03.020 I'll ask you, Murray,
00:11:03.960 because the Saskatchewan government has said that,
00:11:06.380 well, they've basically put in legislation
00:11:08.020 that will make it very difficult
00:11:09.760 for any agent of the federal government
00:11:11.800 to come in and start collecting the,
00:11:14.360 I don't even like using the term buyback
00:11:15.920 because the back implies
00:11:17.060 it was the government's in the first place.
00:11:18.620 But nevertheless, semantics aside,
00:11:20.920 I assume that participating in this
00:11:23.040 is not at all a part of your mandate.
00:11:25.900 Well, we've got the,
00:11:27.980 like we've introduced
00:11:28.740 the Saskatchewan Firearms Act,
00:11:30.380 which of course is provincial legislation.
00:11:32.060 And there is legislation in that document
00:11:36.440 that speaks specifically
00:11:37.580 to the buyback program.
00:11:40.420 And you're correct.
00:11:43.020 Like, you know,
00:11:44.760 we have gatekeepers in place
00:11:46.880 that will, you know,
00:11:48.280 so that we can control
00:11:50.380 who's actually collecting these guns,
00:11:53.020 assuming this was to move forward
00:11:54.660 and to be able to control,
00:11:57.480 in some respects,
00:12:00.080 the dollar value of these firearms.
00:12:03.220 You know, some of these firearms
00:12:05.060 are worth a significant amount of money,
00:12:07.900 understanding and knowing firearms
00:12:09.380 the way I do.
00:12:10.880 You know, we want to ensure
00:12:12.340 that things aren't undervalued.
00:12:14.500 You know, some firearms are worth,
00:12:16.280 you know, over $10,000.
00:12:18.660 And, you know,
00:12:19.520 we want to make sure
00:12:20.180 there's fair compensation that way.
00:12:22.620 Let me ask either or both of you here
00:12:25.460 about the road forward from now,
00:12:27.720 because you've obviously got
00:12:29.000 a lot of the regulations are federal.
00:12:31.300 And certainly when it comes
00:12:32.500 to classification of guns,
00:12:33.840 guns that are prohibited overnight,
00:12:35.380 that's done by the federal government,
00:12:37.140 handguns as well.
00:12:38.860 This has been federal government.
00:12:40.300 How much latitude do provinces have
00:12:42.900 to really,
00:12:44.540 basically, where is the space
00:12:46.040 where provinces really have
00:12:47.460 that latitude they need
00:12:48.880 to serve gun owners
00:12:51.440 and serve public safety?
00:12:53.340 Well, I'll speak to that.
00:12:55.220 I mean, obviously,
00:12:55.940 the federal legislation is,
00:12:57.320 it is federal law,
00:12:58.900 and we're here to enforce that.
00:13:00.220 But again,
00:13:01.480 with the Firearms Act,
00:13:02.280 for example,
00:13:02.980 someone,
00:13:03.880 I'll use a good example,
00:13:04.860 we have someone,
00:13:05.820 say, in rural Saskatchewan
00:13:06.900 that has a Mini-14.
00:13:08.500 They've been using it
00:13:09.360 to hunt predators for years.
00:13:11.820 They don't even know
00:13:12.900 that it's on the list.
00:13:14.760 They've never been sent the letter
00:13:15.840 because no one knows they own it
00:13:17.180 because it's not registered.
00:13:18.620 And they go out
00:13:19.360 and use it as a tool
00:13:20.220 that they've intended to,
00:13:21.300 and all of a sudden,
00:13:21.760 now they're getting
00:13:23.320 a roadside check,
00:13:24.180 and they're saying
00:13:24.740 that they're getting charged
00:13:25.660 with having a prohibited fire,
00:13:28.100 which could end up
00:13:29.080 five years in prison.
00:13:30.540 So in those circumstances,
00:13:32.040 the police have ability
00:13:33.620 to charge under
00:13:34.480 the Provincial Act,
00:13:35.960 and we can look at that
00:13:36.940 and say,
00:13:37.260 well, that was an administrative error
00:13:38.660 versus, you know,
00:13:40.120 going to have to turn
00:13:40.720 the firearm in
00:13:41.580 because it is part
00:13:43.040 of the prohibit list.
00:13:44.140 But saying,
00:13:44.700 and that goes,
00:13:45.400 just to interject,
00:13:46.120 that goes back
00:13:46.620 to what you were talking
00:13:47.140 about earlier
00:13:47.520 of adding this,
00:13:48.500 this sort of provincial category
00:13:49.920 of offense
00:13:50.540 that deals with
00:13:51.160 some of these things.
00:13:51.960 Yes, because I mean,
00:13:52.520 obviously,
00:13:52.940 if somebody's doing
00:13:53.540 a criminal offense
00:13:54.340 and, you know,
00:13:55.160 creating a, you know,
00:13:57.120 public safety risk,
00:13:58.060 I mean, we're going to use
00:13:58.880 all the federal laws
00:13:59.960 and our lawyers
00:14:01.260 and our officers
00:14:01.840 know them very well
00:14:02.840 and we're going to
00:14:03.520 throw the book
00:14:04.040 at these people,
00:14:04.720 so to speak,
00:14:05.640 make sure that we're
00:14:06.260 getting a prosecution
00:14:07.220 and that charge
00:14:08.860 isn't getting washed out
00:14:09.880 for another charge.
00:14:11.520 So again,
00:14:12.600 if you're using
00:14:13.280 a gun illegally
00:14:14.020 in Saskatchewan
00:14:14.860 with what we're doing
00:14:16.020 with the lab
00:14:16.700 and what we're doing
00:14:17.660 with our own lawyers
00:14:18.480 and our firearms office,
00:14:20.000 we're going to be getting
00:14:20.820 pretty aggressive with that.
00:14:22.760 But at the same token,
00:14:24.240 if someone doesn't know
00:14:25.100 that their license expired
00:14:26.300 or they didn't know
00:14:26.960 that the firearm
00:14:27.500 that they owned
00:14:28.080 for 20 years
00:14:29.100 is now on a prohibition list
00:14:30.360 and we want to work
00:14:31.000 with those folks
00:14:31.680 with some sort
00:14:32.720 of alternative measures.
00:14:33.860 So to your point,
00:14:35.300 I mean,
00:14:35.660 we have to use
00:14:37.080 the federal laws,
00:14:38.540 but very similar
00:14:39.800 to driving while impaired.
00:14:41.100 I mean,
00:14:41.280 there's the ability
00:14:42.440 to have the .08
00:14:43.680 criminal code legislation,
00:14:45.300 but as you know,
00:14:46.360 there's many provinces
00:14:47.340 like BC and so forth
00:14:48.700 that have put
00:14:49.640 alternate measures in
00:14:50.740 to curb
00:14:52.240 creating and driving
00:14:53.460 without having people
00:14:55.260 go to jail.
00:14:55.760 So we're really using
00:14:56.800 the same methodology
00:14:58.680 around the firearms.
00:15:00.100 No, you're very right.
00:15:01.080 I mean, look,
00:15:01.400 I live and breathe news,
00:15:02.600 so I follow this stuff
00:15:03.540 very closely.
00:15:04.440 I believe I got a letter
00:15:05.780 at one point
00:15:06.560 notifying me
00:15:07.400 of one of the changes
00:15:08.380 to firearms that I own,
00:15:09.600 but I know people
00:15:10.640 that didn't receive that letter.
00:15:11.980 And, you know,
00:15:12.300 theoretically,
00:15:12.800 if they don't follow
00:15:13.580 the ins and outs
00:15:14.220 of this stuff,
00:15:14.720 I see that scenario
00:15:15.740 you described
00:15:16.420 as being quite commonplace.
00:15:19.240 And, you know,
00:15:19.680 one of the things
00:15:20.200 that's so interesting here
00:15:21.540 is that you have
00:15:23.120 in almost every case
00:15:25.540 that I'm aware of,
00:15:26.340 of every gun owner I know,
00:15:27.460 people that are very diligent
00:15:28.780 and want to protect the law,
00:15:30.100 people that kind of panic.
00:15:31.160 Like, I remember when I,
00:15:32.220 you know,
00:15:32.680 like when I got my training done
00:15:34.780 and, you know,
00:15:35.200 they told me about the importance
00:15:36.300 of taking a direct route.
00:15:37.520 I'm like,
00:15:37.900 I can't even stop for gas
00:15:39.400 if I'm on the way
00:15:40.120 from my range
00:15:40.860 to my house with a handgun.
00:15:42.040 Like, I was just that panicked
00:15:43.040 about just making sure
00:15:44.320 I was doing everything right.
00:15:45.360 And there does seem to be
00:15:47.040 in a lot of the approach
00:15:48.720 that we see,
00:15:49.380 certainly for the federal government,
00:15:50.580 assuming the worst.
00:15:51.820 And, you know,
00:15:52.280 to go back to you, Murray,
00:15:53.260 with being in policing,
00:15:54.560 like that the guy
00:15:55.220 who did what Bob just described,
00:15:58.660 treating them the same way
00:15:59.880 as someone who has a firearm
00:16:01.680 for illegal purposes.
00:16:04.120 Well, that's right.
00:16:04.820 And, you know, Andrew,
00:16:07.900 like law-abiding people
00:16:09.560 in this country,
00:16:11.800 let alone the province,
00:16:12.900 are like,
00:16:13.960 they're afraid.
00:16:14.880 Like, they want to follow the law,
00:16:16.400 as you mentioned,
00:16:17.140 and they want to,
00:16:19.500 they don't want to get into trouble.
00:16:21.700 And in a lot of cases,
00:16:23.760 they're not understanding it either.
00:16:25.960 And so they're worried,
00:16:28.540 they're scared,
00:16:29.020 and they're not really sure
00:16:29.840 what to do a lot of times.
00:16:31.020 And I know our office here
00:16:32.720 receives calls
00:16:33.840 with a lot of questions
00:16:34.920 in relation to that
00:16:35.880 because they're really not sure.
00:16:39.180 And it's sad in a way
00:16:41.900 because, as I mentioned before,
00:16:43.280 our criminals
00:16:44.920 and those who don't follow the law,
00:16:46.840 they don't care about any of that.
00:16:49.100 Yeah, well,
00:16:50.020 very well said.
00:16:50.840 I'm glad to see two people
00:16:52.260 in these roles
00:16:53.000 that know the rules
00:16:54.880 and regulations in and out,
00:16:56.160 but also understand,
00:16:57.460 I think,
00:16:57.800 the function of this.
00:16:59.020 And it's good to know
00:16:59.720 that if you're a gun owner
00:17:00.660 in Saskatchewan,
00:17:01.420 you've got an ally.
00:17:02.260 And as an Ontarian,
00:17:03.560 I can say to you both,
00:17:04.320 I'm quite jealous.
00:17:05.140 So thank you very much
00:17:07.020 to both of you,
00:17:07.800 Murray Cowan,
00:17:08.340 Chief Firearms Officer
00:17:09.320 of Saskatchewan,
00:17:10.520 and Robert Freeberg,
00:17:11.680 Firearms Commissioner
00:17:12.620 of Saskatchewan.
00:17:13.320 Thank you so much, gentlemen.
00:17:14.940 Thanks, Andrew.
00:17:15.440 Appreciate the time.
00:17:16.660 Thanks, Andrew.
00:17:17.200 Appreciate your interest.
00:17:18.780 Well, we now go
00:17:19.780 from Saskatchewan,
00:17:21.320 one province west.
00:17:22.840 It is Monday,
00:17:23.560 and it would not be a Monday
00:17:24.660 without our good friend,
00:17:25.780 Chris Sims,
00:17:26.900 Alberta Director
00:17:27.560 for the Canadian
00:17:28.520 Taxpayers Federation.
00:17:29.740 Chris, I know I'm going to see you
00:17:30.700 in like two days in person,
00:17:32.040 so we're doubling up
00:17:33.540 on the Sims quota this week,
00:17:35.100 but it's the only thing
00:17:36.440 that's supply managed
00:17:37.300 on the Andrew Lawton show
00:17:38.360 is the quota of Sims,
00:17:40.360 and you can never have enough
00:17:41.340 is my view,
00:17:41.980 but good to have you on.
00:17:43.420 Thanks for coming on today.
00:17:44.740 Thanks for having me on,
00:17:45.800 and I need to thank you personally
00:17:47.140 for that country song.
00:17:48.440 That was really kind of you.
00:17:50.320 The voice of Alberta.
00:17:51.640 Yeah, people have been
00:17:52.500 like requesting it.
00:17:53.560 I had someone say,
00:17:54.160 is it on iTunes?
00:17:55.300 So we could have been
00:17:56.640 making money off this.
00:17:57.600 I had no idea.
00:17:58.560 Just imagine, yeah,
00:17:59.320 friends and family
00:17:59.900 have reached out saying,
00:18:00.840 really?
00:18:01.040 So it was really nice.
00:18:03.020 So thank you for that.
00:18:04.020 It's good to be here.
00:18:05.200 I love it.
00:18:05.800 Well, we've been talking
00:18:07.700 about how you've not been
00:18:08.580 letting the Alberta government
00:18:09.740 off the hook
00:18:10.340 on the gas tax going up.
00:18:12.660 It's just not what
00:18:13.500 taxpayers need.
00:18:14.560 A little bit of good news
00:18:15.520 on the Alberta taxpayer
00:18:16.820 horizon, though.
00:18:17.820 The MLAs have done
00:18:19.700 the right thing, shockingly.
00:18:21.940 Yes, and credit where it's due,
00:18:23.980 and to your point, yes.
00:18:25.700 I have a job to do.
00:18:27.380 I may personally really
00:18:28.840 like Danielle Smith,
00:18:29.840 and she knows that I do.
00:18:31.180 But I have a job to do.
00:18:32.400 And she knows that.
00:18:33.280 The premier's office knows that.
00:18:34.840 And the job there
00:18:35.540 is to hold them account
00:18:36.920 for tax increases.
00:18:38.700 And so they increased
00:18:39.580 the fuel tax back up
00:18:40.660 to 13 cents per liter,
00:18:42.200 which is full strength,
00:18:43.260 the provincial fuel tax
00:18:44.180 here in Alberta.
00:18:44.920 So we took them to task
00:18:46.040 for that,
00:18:46.400 and we will continue
00:18:47.040 to do that.
00:18:47.920 But credit also
00:18:49.140 where it is due.
00:18:50.760 And the MLAs
00:18:51.900 at the legislature
00:18:52.700 in Edmonton,
00:18:53.540 so our provincial politicians,
00:18:55.300 have a pay freeze.
00:18:56.380 In fact,
00:18:57.500 back in 2019,
00:18:58.720 they took a pretty hefty pay cut.
00:19:00.640 So when Premier Jason Kenney
00:19:02.860 was in charge,
00:19:03.960 they reduced their MLA pay
00:19:05.700 by around $7,000 per year,
00:19:08.640 and it's been frozen ever since.
00:19:11.140 And so this time of year,
00:19:13.680 with the end of fiscal,
00:19:14.640 beginning of a new fiscal year,
00:19:16.220 the issue of MLA
00:19:17.940 and politician pay hikes
00:19:19.280 comes up,
00:19:19.820 and the Alberta ones
00:19:21.280 said no,
00:19:21.980 which is really interesting.
00:19:23.620 So Alberta MLAs
00:19:24.880 make around $120,000 per year,
00:19:28.260 and the Premier of the province,
00:19:30.460 no matter who's in that office,
00:19:32.160 makes around $186,000 per year.
00:19:35.700 Now, that's a really healthy salary.
00:19:38.680 Anybody listening
00:19:39.340 would be probably pretty happy
00:19:40.760 to be able to be paid
00:19:41.720 that kind of money,
00:19:42.560 but this is really important.
00:19:44.980 The Premier of Alberta
00:19:45.880 is paid less
00:19:47.180 than the Mayor of Calgary,
00:19:48.940 and the Mayor of Edmonton.
00:19:51.500 It's pretty eye-opening.
00:19:53.240 And so compared to that level,
00:19:55.420 that's a lower amount of pay,
00:19:57.280 and it's staying there
00:19:58.400 for this year.
00:19:59.160 So kudos where it is due.
00:20:01.380 The MLAs and the Premier
00:20:02.660 are doing the right thing
00:20:03.440 here in Alberta,
00:20:04.160 and they've kept their pay
00:20:05.120 frozen for this year.
00:20:06.520 Yeah, and it's a nice little contrast
00:20:08.460 to what we've seen
00:20:09.500 at the federal level,
00:20:10.340 where the pay increase
00:20:11.580 is basically automated,
00:20:13.520 and everyone just puts
00:20:14.640 their hands in the air,
00:20:15.320 and says,
00:20:15.480 well, I didn't do it.
00:20:16.240 And that almost makes it worse,
00:20:17.400 because no one's voting on it.
00:20:18.600 It just sort of happens,
00:20:19.580 and people end up
00:20:20.880 getting this big,
00:20:21.940 giant pay bump
00:20:22.740 without really,
00:20:23.820 well, and they still have
00:20:24.560 clean hands on it,
00:20:25.360 because they weren't personally
00:20:26.540 the ones that voted
00:20:27.920 for the increase.
00:20:29.060 Yes, and it's really
00:20:29.920 unaccountable.
00:20:31.200 And to your point,
00:20:32.740 they have had five pay increases
00:20:34.720 every single year.
00:20:36.280 They've not missed a one.
00:20:37.640 And when you think about
00:20:38.560 the last timeline
00:20:39.660 that we all just went through,
00:20:41.220 and we're still kind of
00:20:42.180 emerging from,
00:20:43.220 think of the lockdowns,
00:20:44.620 and the business shutdowns,
00:20:45.880 and the lost wages,
00:20:47.400 and the pay cuts,
00:20:48.200 and the pain
00:20:48.960 that the average working person
00:20:50.840 in Canada has been put through
00:20:52.220 for the past four years or so,
00:20:54.480 largely at the hands
00:20:55.660 and actions of government,
00:20:57.680 the government,
00:20:58.900 federally speaking,
00:21:00.040 the MPs have not missed
00:21:02.180 one pay increase.
00:21:04.080 Not only have they not
00:21:05.200 gotten a pay cut,
00:21:06.240 not only have they been
00:21:07.320 shut down or suspended,
00:21:08.480 they haven't missed
00:21:09.360 one pay increase.
00:21:10.360 So that is in stark contrast
00:21:12.840 to what is happening
00:21:13.940 here provincially.
00:21:14.900 So again,
00:21:15.740 credit where it is due.
00:21:16.920 We're really happy
00:21:17.800 to see this pay freeze.
00:21:19.860 So one group
00:21:21.280 that does not have to suffer
00:21:22.960 in addition to federal MPs
00:21:24.900 is that of the CBC.
00:21:27.860 Canada's state broadcaster
00:21:29.440 gets a healthy subsidy
00:21:30.620 from the taxpayer,
00:21:31.620 $1.4 billion a year.
00:21:33.780 We have heard
00:21:34.820 from Conservative leader
00:21:35.800 Pierre Polyev
00:21:36.520 that he's going to defund CBC
00:21:38.160 and famously turn its
00:21:39.440 Front Street headquarters
00:21:40.340 into a condo.
00:21:41.920 So some nice suburban
00:21:43.640 Toronto couple
00:21:44.620 that wants to move downtown
00:21:45.680 can move into
00:21:47.100 Rosie Barton's makeup room
00:21:48.540 as their first studio apartment.
00:21:50.080 It'll be great.
00:21:51.040 But one thing
00:21:52.060 that I will point out here
00:21:53.380 and you did a fantastic column
00:21:54.920 about this last week
00:21:55.920 and you went through the numbers
00:21:56.840 is that CBC claims
00:21:59.100 whenever it's under attack
00:22:00.380 that it's so important
00:22:01.600 because it didn't have
00:22:03.360 a government role
00:22:04.220 and a government subsidy.
00:22:05.360 All of this stuff it does,
00:22:06.660 no one would do.
00:22:07.400 All of these non-profitable
00:22:08.860 forms of programming
00:22:09.860 like Indigenous coverage,
00:22:11.740 Northern coverage,
00:22:13.000 all of that would not happen.
00:22:14.420 And you looked at the numbers here
00:22:16.100 in your column
00:22:17.680 and they're not really doing that.
00:22:20.160 None of their money
00:22:20.920 is going towards
00:22:22.140 these things
00:22:23.040 that could actually be said
00:22:24.840 to be part of its mandate
00:22:26.180 and not really having
00:22:27.500 a market alternative.
00:22:28.960 Exactly.
00:22:29.680 And that's why we wanted
00:22:30.800 to make that point really clear.
00:22:32.480 So quite often the CBC,
00:22:34.540 whenever we start saying,
00:22:35.640 you know what,
00:22:36.020 you guys are way too expensive
00:22:37.460 and you're unaccountable
00:22:38.540 and you should be defunded,
00:22:40.360 they clutch their pearls,
00:22:42.040 so to speak,
00:22:42.720 and they say,
00:22:43.500 well, we're essential.
00:22:44.760 You know,
00:22:44.940 look at all this wonderful
00:22:45.960 magnanimous service
00:22:46.980 that we provide for people.
00:22:48.620 And so just to back up
00:22:49.580 a little bit,
00:22:50.480 when the CBC was first created,
00:22:53.080 Canadians listened to it
00:22:54.920 for farmers weather reports
00:22:56.740 or to get the score
00:22:57.900 on the hockey game
00:22:58.760 or to get a little bit
00:22:59.940 of entertainment,
00:23:00.880 kind of radio soap opera
00:23:02.320 entertainment
00:23:02.860 that competed
00:23:03.480 with the powerhouses
00:23:04.340 out of places
00:23:04.900 like New York City
00:23:06.100 and Chicago.
00:23:07.220 Like times have
00:23:08.200 drastically changed.
00:23:09.700 Like we can get
00:23:10.440 that information
00:23:11.080 from literally anywhere now.
00:23:13.300 It's almost like
00:23:14.000 finding a coffee shop
00:23:15.000 on every corner street.
00:23:16.200 So that has drastically changed.
00:23:18.940 Further,
00:23:19.720 when they try to say things like,
00:23:21.560 oh, indigenous programming,
00:23:23.620 it was pretty interesting.
00:23:25.340 The great reporters
00:23:26.480 at Black Locks Reporter,
00:23:28.020 Holly and Tom there,
00:23:29.280 they dug up
00:23:30.120 this funding information,
00:23:31.560 which really was
00:23:32.680 eye-popping to me.
00:23:34.120 They went through
00:23:34.800 their financial reports
00:23:36.140 and apparently
00:23:36.920 the CBC spends
00:23:38.840 a little over
00:23:39.880 $6 million per year
00:23:42.760 on indigenous programming.
00:23:45.260 Now, again,
00:23:45.700 that sounds like
00:23:46.220 a lot of money
00:23:46.820 and it is.
00:23:48.240 But when you compare that
00:23:49.240 to how much they spent
00:23:50.160 on bonuses
00:23:51.160 and executive pay,
00:23:53.360 like I think
00:23:53.900 the last round of bonuses,
00:23:55.460 they just finished spending
00:23:56.460 either $14 or $15 million
00:23:59.120 on them.
00:24:00.860 Like, so they're spending
00:24:01.860 more on bonuses
00:24:02.760 than they are
00:24:04.000 on indigenous programming
00:24:05.360 that's been labeled
00:24:06.100 within their financial documents
00:24:07.440 at least.
00:24:08.520 And what's also interesting
00:24:09.800 here, Andrew,
00:24:10.700 is that it is not just
00:24:12.660 the be-all and end-all.
00:24:13.860 So if you want to get
00:24:14.640 something that's in Cree,
00:24:16.020 for example,
00:24:16.760 or some other
00:24:17.600 First Nations language
00:24:18.600 or some cultural programming,
00:24:20.880 the CBC is not
00:24:22.060 your one-stop shop.
00:24:23.740 We actually have,
00:24:24.840 I really like it,
00:24:25.960 we actually have
00:24:26.540 a television network
00:24:27.440 called the Aboriginal
00:24:28.300 People's Television Network,
00:24:29.860 APTN,
00:24:30.820 and they do
00:24:31.640 outstanding reporting.
00:24:33.580 I follow them quite closely.
00:24:35.080 They have a supper hour newscast.
00:24:36.980 They have an investigative
00:24:37.900 journalism team.
00:24:39.240 And they do get
00:24:40.300 some government funding,
00:24:41.400 but it's a fraction, Andrew.
00:24:42.980 And it's only for
00:24:43.700 two annual events,
00:24:45.580 like, you know,
00:24:46.080 the First Nations
00:24:46.740 Annual People's Day,
00:24:47.880 that sort of thing,
00:24:48.900 and a festival
00:24:49.480 that they hold in Winnipeg,
00:24:50.620 which is where
00:24:51.100 the news station is based.
00:24:53.080 It's like a tiny amount
00:24:54.860 compared to what
00:24:55.740 the CBC gets.
00:24:56.940 And yet they broadcast
00:24:57.740 in all sorts of
00:24:58.700 First Nations languages,
00:24:59.620 and they reach
00:25:00.620 millions of homes
00:25:01.500 every week.
00:25:02.460 And so, again,
00:25:03.300 we don't require
00:25:04.340 the state broadcaster
00:25:05.560 to provide this sort
00:25:06.880 of cultural programming.
00:25:09.020 And if you were
00:25:10.120 to come to me
00:25:11.100 with a proposal
00:25:11.980 that said,
00:25:12.680 all right,
00:25:13.260 we're going to get rid
00:25:14.060 of all the CBC funding,
00:25:15.540 but we're going to keep
00:25:16.220 that $6 million,
00:25:17.420 heck,
00:25:17.640 maybe even increase it
00:25:18.420 to $10 million.
00:25:19.540 We'll keep
00:25:19.920 the small budget
00:25:21.000 for non-Quebec
00:25:22.620 French language coverage
00:25:23.940 because, let's face it,
00:25:24.860 there isn't a market case
00:25:26.340 for a French outlet
00:25:27.620 in Edmonton,
00:25:28.340 most likely.
00:25:29.540 You'd be left with,
00:25:30.980 again,
00:25:31.380 I mean,
00:25:31.540 you could still make a case
00:25:32.360 that those could be done
00:25:33.620 by the market
00:25:34.220 under certain circumstances,
00:25:35.760 but at the very least,
00:25:36.920 you'd slash, 0.56
00:25:37.760 even if you got rid
00:25:38.380 of $1.2 billion
00:25:40.040 of CBC's budget,
00:25:42.400 you'd have saved a fortune
00:25:43.860 and Canadians
00:25:45.040 would be no worse off.
00:25:46.680 And I've often said
00:25:47.640 whenever people say,
00:25:48.440 well, I like the CBC,
00:25:49.280 I say, great,
00:25:50.200 continue to like it,
00:25:51.100 continue to watch it,
00:25:52.020 but pay for it yourself
00:25:53.500 through advertising,
00:25:54.640 through subscriptions
00:25:55.280 the way every other media company
00:25:57.420 in the country
00:25:58.120 is expected to operate.
00:25:59.620 Yes, exactly.
00:26:00.660 And we have to keep in mind
00:26:01.640 to your point,
00:26:02.260 your excellent point
00:26:03.100 on language programming
00:26:04.220 and what I would call
00:26:05.440 kind of cultural issues
00:26:07.000 and cultural programming,
00:26:08.720 the CBC pot of money
00:26:10.320 isn't the only taxpayer money
00:26:12.420 that goes out the door
00:26:13.480 for such things.
00:26:14.420 Oh my goodness,
00:26:15.000 not by a long shot.
00:26:16.420 Anybody can take a look
00:26:17.540 at the Heritage Ministry budget
00:26:19.340 and see where this kind
00:26:21.120 of money goes to.
00:26:22.460 And so I think
00:26:23.180 the Canada Council
00:26:24.040 for the Arts,
00:26:25.080 last time I looked,
00:26:26.300 it may be higher or lower,
00:26:27.700 but last time I looked,
00:26:28.760 they got $500 million
00:26:30.440 per year.
00:26:31.960 So like half a billion dollars.
00:26:34.400 So again,
00:26:35.300 the CBC funding,
00:26:36.600 which is now,
00:26:37.320 because they just got
00:26:37.920 a pay increase,
00:26:38.660 by the way,
00:26:39.060 from the Trudeau government,
00:26:40.080 it's now $1.4 billion.
00:26:42.960 That's not the only money
00:26:44.580 that is put forward
00:26:45.720 for cultural programming
00:26:47.180 or language programming,
00:26:48.420 not by a long shot.
00:26:50.540 So if folks are concerned
00:26:51.780 that they won't be getting
00:26:53.160 that kind of specialized niche,
00:26:55.660 very specifically Canadian content,
00:26:57.800 they need to have funding
00:26:59.260 in their view
00:26:59.940 that they don't think
00:27:01.000 has a market for it,
00:27:02.080 okay,
00:27:02.780 go check out
00:27:03.940 a whole bunch
00:27:04.600 of other departments
00:27:05.400 where there's tons of money
00:27:06.780 already going out the door.
00:27:07.960 They could easily repurpose
00:27:09.380 or properly channel
00:27:11.120 some of that funding
00:27:12.020 in order to meet
00:27:13.160 that requirement.
00:27:14.660 Well,
00:27:15.140 and also,
00:27:15.760 if you watch the credits
00:27:17.040 of any CBC show,
00:27:19.360 like a primetime program,
00:27:21.660 which,
00:27:22.120 okay,
00:27:22.480 there are a couple
00:27:23.160 of premises there.
00:27:24.080 Number one,
00:27:24.700 you actually tuned in
00:27:25.680 in the first place
00:27:26.420 and number two,
00:27:27.440 you made it all the way
00:27:28.680 through to the credits.
00:27:30.420 So, you know,
00:27:31.300 maybe for whatever reason,
00:27:32.840 something has happened
00:27:33.640 and everything else
00:27:35.080 was on your TV
00:27:35.840 was busted
00:27:36.320 and you had to watch
00:27:37.240 Little Mosque 0.99
00:27:38.300 on the Prairie rerun
00:27:39.200 or whatnot.
00:27:39.660 You get to it,
00:27:40.120 you're going to see
00:27:40.540 in the credits
00:27:41.120 all of these logos
00:27:42.780 of various,
00:27:43.600 like,
00:27:43.840 government agencies
00:27:44.540 and departments
00:27:45.160 and councils
00:27:45.800 that have also
00:27:46.340 provided funding.
00:27:47.220 So,
00:27:47.480 it's not just
00:27:48.300 that $1.4 billion.
00:27:49.440 It's all of these
00:27:50.220 productions are so
00:27:51.260 heavily subsidized.
00:27:52.380 Now,
00:27:52.600 that's true of CTV shows
00:27:54.240 in Canada as well,
00:27:55.480 but the entire operation
00:27:57.480 is dependent
00:27:58.320 on taxpayers right now.
00:28:00.020 Oh,
00:28:00.220 big time.
00:28:00.860 And so,
00:28:01.280 again,
00:28:01.840 I have to keep repeating
00:28:02.700 this sometimes
00:28:03.400 because what's happened
00:28:04.680 with the last
00:28:05.340 carbon tax fight
00:28:06.340 has,
00:28:07.620 again,
00:28:08.000 reminded me
00:28:08.540 that some folks
00:28:09.260 don't know
00:28:10.140 that the government
00:28:11.320 doesn't have money.
00:28:13.360 Okay?
00:28:13.880 There's no such thing
00:28:15.280 as government money.
00:28:17.000 They don't have money.
00:28:18.600 You have money.
00:28:20.060 Taxpayers have money.
00:28:21.520 The government
00:28:21.980 takes it from you,
00:28:23.960 roughly half your paycheck
00:28:25.280 if you're a hardworking person,
00:28:26.800 and they then
00:28:28.180 spend it on what they want.
00:28:29.840 So,
00:28:30.200 every time you see,
00:28:31.420 if you've already
00:28:32.100 made it to the end credits,
00:28:33.000 if you see those little logos
00:28:34.880 popping up,
00:28:36.080 that's you.
00:28:37.500 You have paid for this,
00:28:39.120 not just through,
00:28:39.940 you know,
00:28:40.360 your Netflix subscription
00:28:41.320 or, you know,
00:28:42.040 through your cable company
00:28:42.980 or I'm showing my age
00:28:43.780 by calling it that.
00:28:44.840 It's not just that bill.
00:28:46.480 It's your tax bill,
00:28:47.740 too,
00:28:48.080 that has gone to
00:28:48.980 paying for this sort
00:28:49.880 of entertainment
00:28:50.400 and stuff.
00:28:51.500 And again,
00:28:52.240 think of what
00:28:53.160 that money could otherwise
00:28:54.240 pay for
00:28:54.780 that we pay for the CBC.
00:28:56.200 So,
00:28:56.320 at $1.4 billion,
00:28:58.160 I broke it down.
00:28:59.480 I think it was
00:29:00.080 6,000 new police
00:29:02.040 and 6,000 new paramedics.
00:29:04.980 Like,
00:29:05.460 that's how much
00:29:06.300 we're paying for the CBC
00:29:07.840 every single year.
00:29:09.700 And again,
00:29:10.280 for folks who really love it,
00:29:12.220 okay,
00:29:12.920 if you want,
00:29:13.900 so,
00:29:14.280 one of their top rated shows,
00:29:16.000 Andrew,
00:29:16.800 I forget what it's called,
00:29:18.120 but I think it's called
00:29:18.760 The Great British Bake Off.
00:29:20.960 Like,
00:29:21.520 it's literally
00:29:22.120 not even Canadian.
00:29:23.260 Like,
00:29:23.420 that's one of their
00:29:24.040 top rated shows.
00:29:25.700 If you love watching that,
00:29:27.500 like,
00:29:27.760 power to you.
00:29:28.600 I love watching
00:29:29.460 Antiques Roadshow
00:29:30.360 on PBS.
00:29:30.940 That's okay.
00:29:32.680 But you pay for it.
00:29:34.080 You choose to subscribe
00:29:35.320 to that organization
00:29:37.020 or I choose to read,
00:29:38.960 you know,
00:29:39.420 a news outlet,
00:29:40.420 for example.
00:29:41.340 You can pay for it
00:29:42.240 through a voluntary subscription.
00:29:43.860 You don't have to force
00:29:44.820 your neighbors
00:29:45.320 and your family
00:29:45.980 to pay for what
00:29:46.780 you choose to watch.
00:29:48.380 I actually just thought
00:29:49.520 Antiques Roadshow
00:29:50.240 was when Peter Mansbridge
00:29:51.320 was brought back on.
00:29:52.540 I thought that was
00:29:53.200 what that was.
00:29:54.880 We do have to think
00:29:56.180 of the eventualities
00:29:57.160 of this.
00:29:57.640 One question,
00:29:58.280 even Pierre Paliyev,
00:29:59.540 for all his talking
00:30:00.600 about CBC defunding
00:30:01.620 has not answered this,
00:30:02.900 is what happens
00:30:03.960 to the poutine market.
00:30:06.740 All right.
00:30:07.660 All right.
00:30:10.180 All right.
00:30:11.660 All right.
00:30:12.420 All right.
00:30:13.300 The Liberal Party
00:30:27.440 always supports CBC.
00:30:29.020 How many poutines
00:30:29.760 can you get
00:30:30.240 for 1.4 billion, Chris?
00:30:31.760 So many.
00:30:33.360 I don't know
00:30:33.720 what the going rate is
00:30:34.620 in the just inflation economy.
00:30:36.800 Oh, my goodness.
00:30:37.700 That's a lot.
00:30:38.680 Oh, my God.
00:30:39.040 That's a lot of poutine.
00:30:40.440 And again,
00:30:41.500 so this highlights it.
00:30:43.280 So in defense,
00:30:44.940 I don't think
00:30:45.560 the journalist
00:30:45.980 was expecting that.
00:30:47.160 No, no.
00:30:47.500 David Cochran
00:30:48.160 was kind of shafted there.
00:30:49.780 Yeah.
00:30:50.140 And you just,
00:30:51.460 I would die
00:30:52.500 like if I were that journalist
00:30:54.320 and all these cameras
00:30:55.620 are on you
00:30:56.200 and this is what happens.
00:30:58.080 And again,
00:30:58.780 but this reminded me,
00:31:00.180 remember,
00:31:00.500 so I think you guys have,
00:31:01.580 I think we have
00:31:02.080 the press gallery dinner
00:31:03.100 coming up again soon.
00:31:04.780 My invitation
00:31:05.680 must be lost in the mail.
00:31:07.280 Right.
00:31:07.580 I'm sure that they're
00:31:08.540 expediting it to you.
00:31:09.820 But a birdie tells me
00:31:11.260 that it's happening,
00:31:12.140 I think,
00:31:12.440 in about 10 days or so.
00:31:13.740 And so I,
00:31:14.380 full disclosure,
00:31:15.300 I have gone to one of them
00:31:16.480 while I was working at CTV.
00:31:18.480 All fun was had by all.
00:31:19.880 But it used to be
00:31:20.960 this kind of closed off
00:31:22.540 in-camera roast.
00:31:24.440 So it actually
00:31:25.380 wasn't meant for broadcast.
00:31:26.920 It was meant to have
00:31:27.680 politicians elbows up
00:31:29.060 with journalists
00:31:29.880 and have them kind of
00:31:31.460 jokingly insulting each other.
00:31:33.120 I've never really found
00:31:34.000 those funny
00:31:34.480 because I find them cringy,
00:31:35.560 but whatever.
00:31:36.140 Some people really like roasts,
00:31:37.680 but now it's this weird
00:31:39.560 broadcasted spectacle.
00:31:41.840 And that Putin thing
00:31:43.580 reminded me so much
00:31:45.180 of when Trudeau got up there
00:31:46.680 a few years ago.
00:31:47.720 And I'm paraphrasing,
00:31:49.340 but he said something
00:31:50.260 to the effect of,
00:31:51.140 oh, well,
00:31:51.700 you know,
00:31:51.920 the mainstream media
00:31:52.980 just says what I tell them to say.
00:31:55.540 And they'd better
00:31:56.420 because we paid them
00:31:57.620 $600 million to do so.
00:32:00.600 And there was like zero laughter
00:32:02.340 because it was true.
00:32:04.120 Yeah, cut a little bit
00:32:05.120 close to the bone,
00:32:05.920 I think.
00:32:06.520 And also not funny.
00:32:07.700 And so again,
00:32:08.340 this is why we keep
00:32:09.380 on banging on this drum.
00:32:11.400 Journalists should not
00:32:12.400 be paid by the government.
00:32:13.940 It doesn't matter
00:32:14.840 if you're right wing
00:32:15.740 or left wing
00:32:16.480 or if you're activist
00:32:17.260 or not,
00:32:17.840 or if you think
00:32:18.760 you're an objective
00:32:19.480 journalistic robot
00:32:20.800 and good for you
00:32:21.540 for trying.
00:32:22.600 You shouldn't be paid
00:32:23.700 by the state
00:32:24.420 because it is your job.
00:32:26.320 One of the key jobs
00:32:27.300 is to hold the truth
00:32:29.140 and the powerful
00:32:30.180 to account.
00:32:31.900 This is the point.
00:32:32.920 You're supposed
00:32:33.460 to speak truth to power.
00:32:34.940 And if you're getting paid
00:32:35.600 by those in power,
00:32:36.520 it's pretty tough
00:32:37.300 to hold them to account.
00:32:38.700 No, see,
00:32:39.000 I actually love the roast.
00:32:40.320 I was invited to emcee
00:32:41.840 a leadership debate
00:32:43.200 for the conservatives
00:32:43.960 in 2017.
00:32:45.340 This is when they had like,
00:32:46.580 it was like Hollywood squares,
00:32:47.700 basically.
00:32:48.100 They had like a million
00:32:48.900 different candidates
00:32:49.760 that wouldn't all sit
00:32:50.580 on the stage.
00:32:50.980 Oh, I remember that.
00:32:51.460 And I was like,
00:32:52.480 but they had done
00:32:53.040 all these debates.
00:32:53.740 So I'm like,
00:32:54.100 the only thing I could do
00:32:54.740 to liven it up
00:32:55.400 was just start by
00:32:56.420 like just roasting them
00:32:57.460 all individually
00:32:58.140 for the first few minutes.
00:32:59.900 And there's a boundary.
00:33:01.680 You can't go over the line.
00:33:02.860 You have to like go
00:33:03.520 right, right to the line.
00:33:05.680 And Chris Alexander,
00:33:07.060 and I made like
00:33:07.700 some barbaric
00:33:08.340 cultural practices joke,
00:33:10.120 which Chris Alexander
00:33:11.760 thought crossed the line.
00:33:12.680 Everyone else just,
00:33:13.740 you know,
00:33:13.960 thought it killed.
00:33:14.600 So anyway,
00:33:15.320 so if you need a roast master,
00:33:18.160 I'm your guy.
00:33:18.940 If not,
00:33:19.380 I'll find someone else.
00:33:20.840 But Chris Sims,
00:33:22.080 we will see you on Wednesday
00:33:23.500 in Ottawa
00:33:24.320 at the Canada
00:33:24.860 Strong and Free Conference.
00:33:26.060 Always good to talk to you.
00:33:26.940 Thanks for coming on today.
00:33:28.320 See you soon.
00:33:28.740 All right.
00:33:30.240 Well,
00:33:30.360 that does it for me
00:33:31.620 for today.
00:33:32.660 I'll be back tomorrow
00:33:33.900 from Ottawa.
00:33:34.920 So not the usual setup.
00:33:36.160 And then we'll have
00:33:37.300 our fantastic mobile studio
00:33:39.300 for the rest of the week.
00:33:40.540 We got some good guests
00:33:41.600 planned for you so far.
00:33:42.760 So do stay tuned.
00:33:43.980 And like I said,
00:33:44.820 if you are there,
00:33:45.620 come out and say hello,
00:33:46.800 though preferably not
00:33:47.540 when I'm on air
00:33:48.180 and mid-sentence
00:33:49.200 and preferably not
00:33:50.260 when I have lunch in my mouth,
00:33:51.740 which is always like
00:33:52.420 the worst time
00:33:53.060 to come up
00:33:54.160 and talk to someone.
00:33:54.880 I felt bad.
00:33:55.640 I was at a dinner
00:33:56.560 with Jordan Peterson
00:33:57.380 some time back
00:33:58.540 and like any time
00:33:59.240 he put like a bite
00:33:59.960 of food in his mouth,
00:34:01.000 someone just like
00:34:01.580 went over to the table
00:34:02.440 and he's like,
00:34:02.920 oh, nice to see you.
00:34:04.380 So try not to do that.
00:34:05.680 But anyway,
00:34:06.640 we will talk to you all tomorrow.
00:34:08.260 Thank you.
00:34:08.820 God bless.
00:34:09.380 And good day to you all.
00:34:10.980 Thanks for listening
00:34:11.780 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
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00:34:14.280 by donating to True North
00:34:15.520 at www.tnc.news.
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