Juno News - Western University forcing booster mandate onto staff and students

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:05.620 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:13.300 Hello and welcome to you all.

00:00:15.900 This is another edition of Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show,

00:00:19.160 the Andrew Lawton Show on True North on this Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022.

00:00:24.700 I just realized like a minute and a half before the show was on late enough that I couldn't do

00:00:32.800 anything about it because the introductory music was still playing that I am wearing a purple shirt

00:00:37.540 right now while I do a lead into a show that's going to be predominantly about the University

00:00:43.160 of Western Ontario which is all about the purple I was not doing this on purpose so I'm going to

00:00:49.660 say this is not exactly celebrating Western in this moment but I'm I'm reclaiming purple I went

00:00:54.540 to Western. It is a school that has done a lot of good. It's a very good school and it's doing

00:00:59.900 something right now that is absolutely unconscionable. It has been the first school in

00:01:03.740 the country, so far as I can tell, to impose a three-dose vaccine mandate on anyone that needs

00:01:11.380 to or wants to step foot on campus in the year ahead. Students, faculty, even visitors. So I

00:01:17.080 don't know if like the mailman that is dropping off or sorry, the postal carrier, I don't want 0.97

00:01:21.880 to be gendered the postal carrier that's dropping off a package to the department of whatever

00:01:26.780 if he or she has to be triple dosed one person asked me an interesting question on twitter a

00:01:32.720 moment ago what if like a visiting football team comes so someone is playing the must the western

00:01:39.100 mustangs at the western mustang stadium do they all have to be vaccinated thrice to be able to

00:01:46.160 play because that's like a good way to guarantee that all the other teams are disqualified say oh

00:01:50.020 Well, they need to comply with our booster mandate if they want to come here.

00:01:53.300 So these are all of the different eventualities that we can talk about here.

00:01:57.200 But right now, here are the facts.

00:02:00.480 Yesterday, Western announced, and by the way, I don't even know if they were going to announce it the way they did,

00:02:06.160 because they had initially quietly, quietly changed this policy, which was buried in a link on a post from July on the website.

00:02:14.980 and they said that all of a sudden the vaccine policy which they had last year that everyone

00:02:19.740 needed to have two doses to go to Western was now going to be updated so that everyone needed a

00:02:25.120 third dose a booster University of Toronto has done this for students in residence Western had

00:02:31.540 done it for students in residence I have not been able to find any other university in Canada at

00:02:36.500 this point that has gone this far for just a blanket mandate for students just yet and by the

00:02:43.200 way, so this is in London, Ontario, where I live and where I'm coming to you from right now.

00:02:47.780 Like four kilometers away from Western is Fanshawe College, a large, reputable college.

00:02:54.880 And they've done the opposite. They've said no mask mandate, no vaccine mandate. And they initially

00:03:00.820 said, and this is the great part, that they were following the advice of the Middlesex London

00:03:04.920 Health Unit. Western has also said it's generally following the advice of the Middlesex London

00:03:10.820 Health Unit. So I emailed the Middlesex London Health Unit today and I said, okay, we've got two

00:03:16.660 people here that are saying opposite things. What was your actual advice? And I am still waiting for

00:03:22.500 my phone to ring. If they call me back midway through the show, I'll just put them on speaker

00:03:26.480 and you can hear for yourself. But I'm not holding my breath that I'll even get a response.

00:03:31.720 So right now, if you are a prospective Western student, or not even prospective, if you are

00:03:36.960 planning in two weeks which is when classes start to be going to western but you are not comfortable

00:03:42.800 or not willing for whatever reason to get a booster you now have to make alternative alternative

00:03:48.880 arrangements and let's talk a little bit about what the timeline has done here because it was

00:03:54.000 one week ago yesterday when the policy was announced that students had to put in their

00:03:58.880 first tuition installment so that was a week before the vaccine mandate was announced two

00:04:04.880 weeks to go for classes to start now western has said not publicly but they've said privately

00:04:11.680 and i got a copy of an email from them that it was going to be a refund policy if someone wants

00:04:17.360 it if someone wants a refund and they ask by september 1st they'll get their tuition money

00:04:21.840 back but even if that happens it's not going to deal with the disruption for hey i plan to be in

00:04:29.440 school and to be this many credits more closer to my degree and now I can't do that. It doesn't

00:04:35.900 deal with a lease if you had signed a contract for an apartment for the year ahead and now you

00:04:41.160 can't go to school. And if you want to talk about how punitive this mandate is, it even applies to

00:04:46.940 online students if there is any in-person component. So that could even be an exam. If

00:04:53.520 you're doing a class that for eight months you can do from your own home from your computer,

00:04:58.760 but you need to go for like one day to do an exam all of a sudden you're subject to the vaccine

00:05:05.260 mandate so let's dispense with this idea that has anything to do with science at all they're going

00:05:10.980 above and beyond what the government is asking of them they're going above and beyond what any other

00:05:15.100 post-secondary institutions in the country are doing and at a time when people around the country

00:05:20.720 and around the world are trying to move beyond this 2020 covid mentality you've got institutions

00:05:26.420 like Western in London, Ontario that are doubling down and tripling down. It's no longer a post

00:05:32.020 secondary education. It's a dose secondary education, three doses to be exact. And that's

00:05:37.420 only now until they updated in the winter term and say you need the fourth dose. If you want to

00:05:41.460 go back to finish the second half of whatever class you started in September, we're going to

00:05:46.160 talk about this from a couple of different angles. And I also want to get into the bigger picture

00:05:50.180 here. But fortunately, I have to point out, students are fighting back. Students at Western

00:05:55.880 are pushing back against this. And one notable example is a Twitter and Instagram campaign that

00:06:02.140 launched called Enough is Enough Western. The creator of this, Kendra Hancock, joins me on

00:06:08.020 the line now. Kendra, good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today.

00:06:12.560 Thanks so much for having me.

00:06:13.500 so let me start first off with what this disruption means for students i mean i think you can argue

00:06:22.620 about whether vaccine mandates are right or wrong in general but at the very least people should be

00:06:28.320 able to buy into the fact that the timing of this is absolutely atrocious unfortunately that's been

00:06:35.760 the pattern a lot of the universities were kind of so a lot of the official mandates came out

00:06:46.120 on terribly late considering that for most institutions yes the timing has been definitely

00:06:56.020 less than ideal i mean we're hearing fine leases um taking out flights back to london in all their

00:07:05.760 No, it's important. I hate to cut you off here. We're having some issues with your audio. So

00:07:22.700 we're going to get you to reconnect and we'll try to sort that out in a moment, Kendra. I got bits

00:07:27.660 of that about the importance of this issue. So I want to hear the rest of it more clearly. We'll

00:07:31.860 get that sorted out in just a moment. But I want to right now just point to a couple of the key

00:07:37.560 issues that have come from this. So Western, and by the way, I reported on this yesterday,

00:07:42.680 just as, to be honest, I sent my request for comment because I was trying to do the right

00:07:47.380 thing here. Because at the time, the policy was only buried on Western's website, and you couldn't

00:07:52.340 actually get publicly any statement where they had announced this. And it was after I asked them,

00:07:58.080 hey, what's up here that they released it. Now, I'm not saying they did it because I asked. They

00:08:02.280 may have been planning on releasing this yesterday anyway. But I've asked a number of questions of

00:08:07.800 Western and they have not responded to anything. I've sent questions about the policy itself.

00:08:13.280 I also sent further questions today about the refunds because I had parents of Western students

00:08:18.540 and Western students asking me, yeah, I've already paid my tuition. I'm planning on being on campus

00:08:24.460 in two weeks. In some cases, these are people that have made significant changes, significant

00:08:30.440 changes in their lives to be there, to be in London. Not everyone is local. And now they're

00:08:38.640 being told, now they're being told that they cannot go and they have to get vaccinated three

00:08:45.420 times to continue on with this. I believe we have Kendra back on the line here. So we're going to

00:08:51.340 try to reconnect with Kendra Hancock of Enough is Enough. Kendra, we were talking a little bit

00:08:57.400 about the disruption aspect here, but let me just first off talk about how many students are affected

00:09:02.400 by this, because I know you may not have exact numbers, but we know that booster uptake has been

00:09:07.380 very low in general, certainly for people that are in the student age group. I imagine that there

00:09:14.280 are a lot of students who last year were fully vaccinated that this year are ineligible to

00:09:19.200 continue their studies. Yeah, absolutely. We actually just did some polling on that on Instagram.

00:09:25.720 Obviously, it's a pretty casual poll. It's not like it's a full-fledged investigation or anything,

00:09:30.800 but we asked point blank who got the mandate or who got the vaccines last year because of

00:09:37.020 Western's mandate and versus who got it out there on a cord. The numbers were very stark for people

00:09:44.360 who got it because of Western. And we also asked right after that, if you got it because of

00:09:50.120 Western's mandate, did you feel forced? And so far, it's overwhelming for people feeling like

00:09:55.220 they're absolutely forced into this situation. And the challenge is that if someone was, let's

00:10:01.800 say, in their third year last year, and they figured, okay, I'm halfway through, I've got to

00:10:06.760 get the mandate and go the next year, this year, they're even more invested. And it's challenging

00:10:12.340 because Western would look and they did last year and said, oh, wow, we have almost a 100%

00:10:17.020 vaccination rate. Yeah, but you got that through coercion. Yeah, that one is always really funny

00:10:23.060 to me. I heard it mentioned actually a couple times today. It's the go to defense. It's kind

00:10:27.900 of like if you if a country said, oh, well, 100% of our citizens have drafted themselves into the

00:10:33.900 war have joined the war effort. But then you say, yeah, but don't you have conscription?

00:10:37.920 so it's either you get an exemption or you get kicked out of the country so yeah yeah if you

00:10:43.540 expel anyone that's not vaccinated you are left with curiously a 100 vaccination rate it's funny

00:10:48.920 how that works out what's been the effect on you personally of this where are you in your studies

00:10:55.320 and what will this mean for you um it's actually been quite a long road and it's been just about a

00:11:00.860 year since the first news hit about the pretty strong vaccination mandate. I just finished up

00:11:08.740 in my bachelor's through Huron at Western after being technically kicked out. That was a very

00:11:14.320 interesting long process, but I know a few people were able to fight it and obviously take advantage

00:11:21.000 of good timing and just being resilient in order to get their degree. It cost me a few extra

00:11:28.220 thousand dollars to do it because i had to do online studies at an outer province school to

00:11:33.340 finish up worked really hard to do it on a tighter timeline but i was able to get my degree so happy

00:11:39.420 now to go back to western for a master's program a year-long master's program and now obviously

00:11:45.900 that's completely up in the air so dreams have been a little crushed but i'm putting that aside

00:11:50.700 because i know that all the people we're representing right now through the account

00:11:54.860 are all in the same situation and they're obviously unhappy too you mentioned on your

00:12:01.180 well maybe not you but someone on your uh enough is enough account may have been you tweeted out

00:12:05.900 hey western you a lot of students are ready to request refunds we're curious are you ready i

00:12:11.500 don't know if it's a you know a thread or a prediction or however we want to characterize

00:12:15.340 it but but you're thinking here that there's going to be a noticeable financial hit to the university

00:12:21.180 yes uh that's what we're seeing i'd say it's um legal reasons it's not a threat no it's definitely

00:12:28.860 just to put a little bit of pressure and put them on the spot because they need to be they

00:12:31.980 need to be held accountable um but yeah from everything we've been seeing countless of people

00:12:36.940 are reaching out to us um are sharing these infographics on how to request a refund as you're

00:12:43.500 saying um how if you do it before a certain time you get a full refund um a lot of people have told

00:12:48.700 as they've already done it you know a lot of people are saying they're going to wait to see

00:12:53.020 sort of what happens with obviously the advocacy coming from us and from the student councils and

00:12:57.900 hopefully we can get some things to change because it needs to change but it's it should be a fear of

00:13:03.740 theirs because it's going to happen because students have had enough so enough is enough

00:13:08.780 i looked at the western timetable is posted publicly so anyone can go and look at what

00:13:13.820 courses they offer and there are not a lot of courses that are available online there are a

00:13:18.220 a lot that you can only do in person.

00:13:19.840 And as I mentioned briefly earlier,

00:13:22.240 there are also courses that may be

00:13:23.980 online, but they have an in-person

00:13:25.320 exam, which under Western's policy

00:13:27.520 would would theoretically disqualify

00:13:29.260 you unless you could get an

00:13:31.120 accommodation or an exemption or

00:13:32.800 whatever the proper protocol is

00:13:34.660 there. So for students

00:13:36.700 to do what you did is very

00:13:38.380 difficult in general, depending on

00:13:39.760 program and certainly at a master's

00:13:41.560 level, at a graduate level, when

00:13:43.400 things are very specialized.

00:13:44.740 And and they're giving students two

00:13:46.560 weeks to figure this out.

00:13:48.220 Yeah, absolutely. I think that's got to be part of the goal. It was really difficult

00:13:53.540 to do it last year. Not a lot of people were able to. Some people were able to do things

00:13:56.700 differently and able to get through the year. Kudos to them, of course. But I'd say Westerns,

00:14:02.500 it seems like they're trying to make it more impossible. And that's the feeling among students.

00:14:06.740 And that's obviously really discouraging, considering they are so, I'd say, so distant

00:14:13.040 from the student culture at the moment.

00:14:16.060 This is one of the first times in a long time

00:14:18.600 I've seen the entire student,

00:14:20.240 Western student population be united.

00:14:23.000 And that's a really great thing.

00:14:24.420 That's something that an administration should be proud of

00:14:26.500 and take advantage of.

00:14:27.820 Instead, it's trying to control us 0.96

00:14:29.680 and divide us through silly tactics.

00:14:34.120 Have you gotten any sense as to who's really pushing this?

00:14:38.380 I mean, I know some theories have been that the faculty

00:14:41.520 where you have some that are quite COVID paranoid

00:14:44.140 have been pushing this.

00:14:44.860 And you can kind of see this in the mask policy

00:14:47.620 because if you look at the Western mask policy,

00:14:49.620 it's that if you're in the classroom,

00:14:52.280 where students are seated, generally not talking,

00:14:55.120 you have to wear your mask.

00:14:56.520 But if you're in the hallway talking,

00:14:58.160 doing whatever you want,

00:14:59.000 you don't have to wear a mask, it's just encouraged.

00:15:01.020 So the fact that COVID only exists in the classroom

00:15:04.100 and not in the hallway would seem

00:15:05.900 to not be particularly logical.

00:15:08.220 And I draw from that, that you had professors

00:15:11.020 that were saying, you know, we will not teach in classrooms 0.89

00:15:13.240 where people are not masked. 0.58

00:15:15.800 Yeah, it's been an interesting,

00:15:18.840 interesting to watch kind of unfold.

00:15:21.200 And I feel bad for the professors who are not for this

00:15:23.780 because they've been absolutely silenced.

00:15:25.480 I mean, I've witnessed it, I've talked to professors,

00:15:27.400 they've reached out to me and to,

00:15:29.420 they've been, some of them have been vocal

00:15:31.220 more on a private level as, you know,

00:15:33.780 they go through these faculty meetings.

00:15:35.440 Well, yeah, tenured professors

00:15:37.240 who thought they were unfireable were fired last year

00:15:39.700 because they couldn't comply with the VAX mandate.

00:15:42.940 Yeah, and I mean, way to, isn't that so,

00:15:46.120 I mean, it's indicative of academia at the moment,

00:15:49.020 but it's so against fundamental academic principles.

00:15:51.780 I know so many people who have gone through the last year

00:15:53.760 and say, I'm done with university.

00:15:56.120 Obviously it's not a culture and environment

00:15:57.900 they wanna be in.

00:15:58.740 And I absolutely get that because it's just,

00:16:01.000 it's become what it's become right now.

00:16:03.600 But unfortunately, you know,

00:16:04.980 for many people midway through their degree,

00:16:06.880 you already have so much money put into it.

00:16:09.100 If you want to be employable, if you want to move on the rest of your life, you're already so invested, you have to continue.

00:16:16.840 Yeah, I would agree with you.

00:16:18.500 And I would also add that, you know, we were talking about coercion earlier.

00:16:22.180 And I think for students who just have a timeline, like I remember when I came out of high school, I had I mean, obviously, every prediction I had for my life ended up being wrong.

00:16:30.260 But, you know, it's like, OK, I've got four years to do this and then I'm going to do this and then I'm going to do this.

00:16:34.100 And it's easy to set those targets and timelines and you don't anticipate that you could be a straight A student, you could be getting 80s, 90s.

00:16:41.860 And for nothing to do with your academic performance, you will not you will you will be at least a year behind, maybe two years behind last year plus this year because of this vaccine mandate and unable to complete your studies at all or unable to complete them on the timeline you wanted and for no scientific basis.

00:17:00.220 and that's the part that really stings i mean we saw it last year and i hope we can avoid it this

00:17:05.860 year i truly do um where good students um people who do extracurriculars who put the hard work who

00:17:12.800 are perhaps on a roll who really care about their studies they're putting all this work in and

00:17:18.180 they're getting trespass notices when their exemption fails they are getting carried out

00:17:23.160 class by security for failing to comply so it's it's backwards obviously and i hope it's not

00:17:31.240 obviously from our position from what i'm seeing from students i don't think it's too far gone i

00:17:35.880 think we can take it back i think we can get back to being united in the reasonable and actually

00:17:41.640 focusing on what matters which is education and the student experience i mean obviously there are

00:17:48.120 under the Human Rights Act, and Western has acknowledged this, exemptions that people can

00:17:52.940 get for medical reasons and also for religious or conscientious reasons. Now, these have been

00:17:59.480 very difficult for some people to obtain, although I know there have been some examples of it. Some

00:18:04.740 students can go this route, but obviously if that process becomes overrun, you know, Western's

00:18:09.540 probably just going to say, no, we're not playing ball here. Do you think Western will cave on this,

00:18:15.300 Or do you think that, you know, they're just committed at this point?

00:18:19.060 I think they should cave on this.

00:18:20.840 I think it's in their best interest.

00:18:23.060 Obviously, if their motivations aren't the Middlesex London Health Unit or the Chief

00:18:28.340 Medical Officer of Health, if their motivations for this aren't directly from public health

00:18:32.540 recommendations, like they have said, if that's not the case, then their motivations are

00:18:38.900 obviously more on the selfish side.

00:18:40.980 there's obviously something else going on, which could overpower their, obviously, their interest

00:18:46.680 in hearing students out. But I think they won't have much of a choice because students are really

00:18:52.680 passionate and obviously are getting organized. And I think that this is, that we have a good

00:18:58.100 chance at making an impact here. Just because you brought it up, I will have to ask you about this

00:19:04.660 idea of the guidance and advice. And there was something that was very interesting that you

00:19:10.220 pointed out to me when we were speaking earlier that the previous policy the two-dose policy had

00:19:15.840 all of this uh pre-ambulatory stuff about where the policy basically came from the new one doesn't

00:19:23.080 have that it doesn't say this is a direct response to the guidance and advice we're giving here and

00:19:28.760 so far i can't find anyone giving guidance and advice saying this yeah absolutely and um i had

00:19:36.680 a sneaking suspicion that that could happen and that they might try to do something along those

00:19:41.360 lines so I saved that document just so even for my own reasons so I could compare because last

00:19:47.920 year of course the guidelines were pretty the parameters were pretty laid out and there wasn't

00:19:52.960 too much of a choice on their on their side just because of the state Ontario was in and the

00:19:57.500 direction the Ontario government was going but that's not the case now so I know what a lot of

00:20:02.260 people and what a lot of students are thinking and are saying, thankfully, is where is the data?

00:20:08.260 Where is the recommendation? What is the reasoning? Where is this coming from? We need to know.

00:20:13.880 We need the data that actually shows that someone with two or less doses is a physical threat

00:20:20.280 to others on campus because that has to be the bottom line. I know you touched on this a little

00:20:26.780 bit before, but the audio was not as great on that first answer. So if you need to restate

00:20:31.200 anything, please do. But why have you made the decision to speak out? Because I know a lot of

00:20:35.400 people don't want to go down this road of opening themselves up for all of the naysaying and, you

00:20:40.980 know, negativity that comes from from speaking out on anything, but certainly on this issue. Why have 0.99

00:20:45.160 you decided? Yeah, I'm willing to put my name and face behind this. I'm actually a really private

00:20:51.180 person. So this whole thing has been a bit overwhelming. But it's just one of the situations

00:20:56.700 where it needs to be said um last year i attempted to speak out it didn't go quite as well just

00:21:02.060 because um i'd say people weren't ready yet people weren't ready to see it yet people were thinking

00:21:07.740 okay we go along with this and then everything will be fine things will resume it's just one

00:21:13.180 year it's just that most of us are vaccinated anyway it doesn't matter it's really that

00:21:17.340 mentality you were up against yeah yes and then people i guess people who maybe didn't believe

00:21:21.980 that or maybe who were sympathetic it would just maybe there wasn't a point in in trying to speak

00:21:26.860 up or support it um i just say it people were probably looking forward to the future and things

00:21:31.900 getting better and now that more people know that places like western are hung up on not moving

00:21:38.380 forward um things have to be said so basically as soon as i saw the announcement um i knew this had

00:21:45.580 to be done and i was kind of preparing beforehand and i thought about some things that might be

00:21:49.900 helpful for the community to know or to have one central spot where people could talk and

00:21:56.620 could support one another but i did not expect it to go so well as it has so far i've definitely

00:22:03.100 had to take on some extra support and we'll have to continue doing that because um i was able to

00:22:07.900 keep up with messages now i'm probably 700 messages behind so it's gone a little out of

00:22:13.900 hand but obviously in a great way well i'm glad you got to my message then and we're able to uh

00:22:18.780 to come on the uh the twitter account is students for agency it's called enough is enough western

00:22:24.460 and i know you're also on uh what's the instagram handle as well i'm not never as good on instagram

00:22:29.580 oh it's the same so it's students for number four agency all right good and i i think there's a

00:22:35.900 tremendous value in what you're doing not only because you're right and i think on the right

00:22:39.420 side of history here but but also because when western touts that 100 vaccination rate or 99.99

00:22:46.460 bajillion percent vaccination rate they're trying to isolate anyone that's not in that group and

00:22:51.420 they're trying to say that you are alone and i think when you stand up in the way that you've

00:22:55.500 done you're telling people hey you're not alone and there are hundreds if not thousands of us

00:23:00.860 absolutely and that's what it's about we're going to be united it's your own choice if

00:23:05.100 you want four vaccines go for it if you want zero go for it if you want to wear a mask for

00:23:10.060 however long you want to wear it for go ahead it's not it shouldn't keep us apart there's no

00:23:14.700 reason for it to keep us apart especially as a school so she has a community so i just hope we

00:23:20.060 can continue this momentum and keep moving forward well said well what's next for enough is enough

00:23:26.300 what can we expect from you in the coming days um well there's definitely going to be some more posts

00:23:31.980 and the students have spoken they want if it is needed which um we'll have to kind of keep an eye

00:23:39.020 on the next couple days they want a in-person demonstration people students are ready to have

00:23:44.140 their voices heard um in that format so um we'll have to keep an eye out for that but we're

00:23:49.500 definitely very willing to get something like that going well let me know and i will be there

00:23:54.300 as a fellow monitor kendra hancock creator of enough is enough thank you so much and truly

00:23:59.580 congratulations on launching this movement thanks for having me all right thank you very much this

00:24:05.900 is great and i say not that i'm not saying that about the western thing i'm saying that about the

00:24:10.300 response to it because so often like last year kendra mentioned this you had western moving

00:24:15.340 forward and all universities in canada moving forward with this and effectively they just get

00:24:20.220 to say yeah well that's what it is and and at a time when if you go back a year most people were

00:24:26.940 what was then called fully vaccinated now no one says fully vaccinated and interestingly

00:24:33.020 if you look at the western policy they've removed any reference to the term fully vaccinated so it's

00:24:38.060 it's just like the federal government now fully vaccinated doesn't exist anymore because now it's

00:24:43.240 about up to date so there's no there will be no surprise whatsoever when in six eight nine months

00:24:50.920 time western says it's not just about having three doses everyone needs to have a dose within the last

00:24:56.580 six months within the last nine months whenever it is and we're talking about an age group here

00:25:02.640 that is not at risk, an age group that simply is not at risk of COVID to justify this mandate.

00:25:11.760 And I'm not saying there's zero risk. I'm saying that you're at an age group where there is

00:25:15.680 legitimately a risk that will come from vaccination for some people. And I'll look at what Dr.

00:25:22.020 Quadmo Kiramatang, who's an associate professor of University of Ottawa. He's a critical care and

00:25:26.780 palliative care doctor. He is on TV. He'll be on CBC and CTV. So this is not some like crank that

00:25:32.420 I found on the internet. This is a very intelligent, very educated man who says about this

00:25:38.680 mandate, and I want to quote exactly from his tweet, low risk of severe disease, hybrid immunity, 0.90

00:25:46.360 shutting out many racialized students, myocarditis risk, I'm at a loss. He says it's exclusionary,

00:25:54.600 it defies the fact that some people have immunity from infection, from prior infection,

00:26:00.280 that students have low risk of severe disease and there is in fact a myocarditis risk a heart

00:26:04.720 disease you're not supposed to say the m word when you talk about vaccination but it is there

00:26:08.980 and this is not coming from someone who is against vaccines this is coming from someone who believes

00:26:14.760 in choice and who is pointing out how follow the science has very quickly become a race to who can

00:26:21.020 be the most paranoid and who can let fear dominate their policy approach and i have a column coming

00:26:28.340 out about this in the next couple of days, which means I need to, when I say something's coming out

00:26:32.940 in the next couple of days, it means I need to finish it. But it is going to be coming out in

00:26:36.040 the next couple of days. And I have a theory here that what Western is trying to do is curate its

00:26:42.440 student population. I bet Western knows this isn't scientific. I bet Western knows this has nothing to

00:26:47.940 do with science. And the mask thing proves that. Because if you look at their policy that you have

00:26:56.860 to be masked in the classroom, but not in the hallways or the common areas. And trust me,

00:27:00.840 I'm not saying they should require masks in more places, but I'm pointing out the inherent absurdity

00:27:05.000 in that. COVID does not end at the classroom. I mean, maybe in like a biology class, if you're

00:27:10.000 studying COVID and you have COVID out in the vials, like you're in the Wuhan lab, perhaps.

00:27:14.720 But generally speaking, I don't think in your philosophy seminar, there is a risk of COVID.

00:27:19.760 And then outside in the hallway, there's no risk. So if you are passing COVID around in the hallway,

00:27:25.380 it's not going to stop because you go in and put the little piece of paper over your face so 0.86

00:27:29.600 the idea here is that western must know this is ridiculous and i bet western professors of

00:27:35.780 medicine and virology and epidemiology probably know this is not scientific but they are trying

00:27:42.980 to attract i believe a particular type of student they want the type of student that has three doses

00:27:49.400 of covid vaccine they want the type of student that's comfortable wearing masks they don't want

00:27:53.720 the renegade libertarians they don't want the ones that are like hey you know maybe I have done my

00:27:58.100 due diligence and I think that two doses is enough for me or one dose or perhaps even zero doses

00:28:03.380 that's what western doesn't want those people don't belong in the western community this

00:28:10.020 university says and I don't think you even need to be against the mandate to find it utterly

00:28:17.640 offensive for them to drop this on students two weeks before classes are about to start

00:28:22.820 when us, Kendra and I were talking about a few moments ago,

00:28:26.680 students are in apartment leases,

00:28:28.400 they've made plans to move,

00:28:29.820 they have not made plans to go to another school,

00:28:32.240 which now may be completely out of reach for them at this time.

00:28:35.480 And this is something that will only continue to happen

00:28:39.320 unless people take a stand,

00:28:41.280 unless people say this is not what I am willing to put up with.

00:28:47.220 And it's egregious to me

00:28:49.400 that we are willing to sacrifice youth's education

00:28:54.140 for this thing, this mandate.

00:29:00.080 I'm not talking about the vaccination,

00:29:01.080 but this mandate that serves no one's interests

00:29:04.800 but a tiny group of people

00:29:06.860 that are terrified of their own shadow

00:29:08.640 and more importantly,

00:29:10.020 people that want control over others.

00:29:13.440 People that derive purpose and meaning

00:29:16.340 and pleasure and joy

00:29:17.900 from controlling the individual decisions of other people.

00:29:24.320 And let's take a realistic look at where this is going.

00:29:28.460 And I want to play a clip here from the mayor of Peterborough,

00:29:32.440 Diane Terrien.

00:29:34.180 I don't know if she Frenches it up,

00:29:35.620 but I'm going to French it up for her. 1.00

00:29:36.700 Diane Terrien. 1.00

00:29:37.940 She is the one who made a little bit of a name for herself 1.00

00:29:41.140 because she tweeted a bunch of F-bombs a couple of weeks ago 1.00

00:29:44.520 when that like absolute nutcase queen of Canada 1.00

00:29:47.500 a nonsense woman went to Peterborough and Diane said, you know, F you F wads or something like 1.00

00:29:52.700 that. And everyone said, Oh, wow, she's so edgy. She tweeted at the crazy woman with mean slurs. 0.98

00:29:58.660 Okay, fine. Have fun, Diane. And Diane then was doing the rounds and she was doing an interview 1.00

00:30:03.640 with CBC. And she decided that her issue wasn't just with the Queen of Canada. Her issue was with

00:30:09.640 effectively all people who are part of this protest movement protesting for freedoms.

00:30:15.040 And I want you to just take that context in mind and listen to what Mayor Diane had to say.

00:30:22.520 I saw this play out in the city of Ottawa, which is a much larger city with a much larger police force.

00:30:29.800 You know, this past winter, the Peterborough Police Service, again, did, you know, an outstanding job at dealing with these people.

00:30:37.840 and they have been for close to two years now

00:30:40.100 we've been seeing these kinds of protests

00:30:41.540 of a similar nature

00:30:43.340 which has all been exacerbated by COVID-19

00:30:45.520 and so I think the fact that there's finally been

00:30:49.440 some arrests and consequences for their actions

00:30:52.200 hopefully will deter them

00:30:54.140 but I mean again there's a group of people

00:30:58.020 that are just I feel like they're just bored

00:31:00.380 with nothing else to do

00:31:01.340 because they're protesting mandates

00:31:03.200 and there's not even any mandates anymore

00:31:04.780 so they're just kind of showing up

00:31:07.840 because they've got nothing else better to do on a saturday they should go volunteer

00:31:11.200 or help the community but they don't so she says people are protesting because they're

00:31:17.920 bored on a saturday they have nothing to do uh okay that's fine she says they could go

00:31:23.040 volunteer instead as though they're not helping their community by standing up for freedom

00:31:29.040 okay that's fine um but she says there's no mandates anymore now at the time that she said

00:31:36.240 this when she said this there was no three dose mandate at western i'll give her that

00:31:42.160 but the whole point of the people who are right now protesting mandates 0.96

00:31:47.440 is that they believe there is a mandate still in place and the reason they are so foolish as to

00:31:53.600 believe that is because there is there's right now a vaccine mandate for many civil service jobs

00:31:59.760 including in Peterborough Ontario so to work for Mayor Diane's city you have to be vaccinated and

00:32:06.720 she says there's no mandate talk about a woman who doesn't read the briefing memos and beyond that

00:32:12.260 there is the risk that government will reimpose all of these things when they've lifted them

00:32:16.400 they've said they're suspended and we're going to monitor and watch and in the fall they may come

00:32:20.800 back and then you look at Western and Western has now taken not for two weeks to flatten the curve

00:32:26.600 but for the entire year, a three-dose vaccine mandate that will exclude thousands, I suspect.

00:32:34.660 And I want to just point out the numbers here because the numbers are very important. We say

00:32:39.160 follow the science. Well, let's look at the data here. In Canada, the vaccine rate is generally

00:32:45.320 very high. When you bring it to boosters, it's very low. In youth, incredibly low. So just 36.39%

00:32:54.700 of 18 to 29 year olds have received three or more doses 36 so just over a third when you go to 12

00:33:01.820 to 17 year olds because some people are 17 when they start in university that's what i was 19.27

00:33:09.260 percent so less than one in five now if you were to break this down further by region and by

00:33:15.580 education you're going to find variances but but let's say that there are probably no more

00:33:20.460 more than 30 to 35 percent of Western's student population who are vaccinated with three or more

00:33:29.980 doses. That's a pretty big denominator that is going to be forced to decide whether it's worth

00:33:37.040 getting boosted just to stay in school or not. A lot will. A lot will. And for many of them,

00:33:42.960 it will be simply because they were forced to, simply because they were coerced to,

00:33:47.120 not because they wanted to. And for others, they will decide, you know what, this is not

00:33:51.360 what I signed up for. And I think the problem with mandates is that they are all invariably

00:33:57.000 a slippery slope. They all open the door to future mandates down the road. You look at what's

00:34:04.080 happening right now, the challenge, the legal challenge against the federal government's

00:34:07.980 vaccine mandate for air travel. The liberals are trying to have the court challenge thrown out,

00:34:12.920 and their rationale for this is that it's moot.

00:34:15.600 They say, well, the mandate's gone.

00:34:17.020 It doesn't matter.

00:34:17.940 It's all over. 0.78

00:34:19.220 And anyone with half a brain can say,

00:34:21.360 yeah, but you brought it the first time.

00:34:23.040 So maybe we need to just have this seen through the courts

00:34:25.760 so that we know for a fact

00:34:28.000 that you will not be able to bring it back again.

00:34:31.340 Now that's if courts decide the right way,

00:34:33.120 which I don't have confidence they will.

00:34:34.820 But the point is that you don't just get to say,

00:34:36.760 well, we've rescinded the mandate.

00:34:38.060 So there's no biggie.

00:34:38.800 There's no discussion.

00:34:39.700 We get to move on.

00:34:41.640 Heck, Western withdrew its mask mandate over the summer, and now the mask mandate is back.

00:34:46.500 The vaccine mandate, they said, yeah, we're going to let everyone know by the week of August 8th,

00:34:50.620 and then they didn't. So a lot of people said, okay, I guess there's no change to it.

00:34:55.380 And then this comes out just two weeks before classes start that you need to have three doses

00:35:01.820 if you want to go to Western University. And if you don't go to Western, you don't want to go

00:35:06.620 to Western, you don't live in London, Ontario, you may think, Andrew, why have you devoted

00:35:10.020 an entire show to this one university's vaccine policy. Because it's proving the point

00:35:16.240 that these mandates are going to be perennial. And they are always just a pen stroke away. All

00:35:23.400 it takes is one bureaucrat, one administrator, one lawmaker, and these things are a pen stroke

00:35:28.160 away from coming back. And I'm sorry, but Diane Tarion, how dare you look in the camera with a 0.86

00:35:35.200 straight face and say, there are no mandates. How dare you look at people in this country

00:35:42.020 and say that if they're standing up for freedom, they're doing nothing for their community. They're

00:35:46.580 doing nothing for their neighbors. How dare you look at the people who voted for you and the

00:35:51.640 people who didn't and the people who live in communities outside of Peterborough who don't 0.93

00:35:55.620 have to put up with your nonsense. How dare you look at them and say, you know what? They just

00:36:00.020 have nothing better to do. They just have nothing better to do if they're standing up and saying,

00:36:06.120 you know, we don't think government should be exacting this control over its citizens.

00:36:10.580 These mandates, whether you're talking about a public sector employment mandate or an air

00:36:15.640 travel mandate, or you're talking about a mandate to go to school, are not just problems for the

00:36:22.440 people they're affecting directly. They're problems for the entirety of society because

00:36:26.700 they say that it's government that gets to decide and these administrative bodies and these school

00:36:31.440 administrators that get to decide what you do with your own body. What do you do with your own life?

00:36:38.340 Imagine if you, and I pointed this out on Twitter earlier, imagine you are someone who is about to

00:36:42.740 start your second year or maybe your first year at university. The last three years of your life

00:36:50.740 have been affected by COVID. The last three school years, the 2019-2020 school year,

00:36:57.840 the 2020-2021 school year, and the 2021-2022 school year. In this time, extracurriculars

00:37:05.340 have been suspended. School has been intermittently thrown online. You've been taken out of the

00:37:09.660 classroom. Maybe last year you were denied the right to go to school because you weren't

00:37:13.640 vaccinated if you're talking about first year of university. And you've gotten through all of that.

00:37:19.240 and now you're being told two weeks before,

00:37:21.980 oh, by the way, you thought this year was going to be normal. 1.00

00:37:24.220 No, screw you. 1.00

00:37:26.040 Get your three doses or get out. 1.00

00:37:28.880 And I don't care.

00:37:30.640 If you want to say, oh, well, vaccination is good and it's good

00:37:33.420 and everyone should get it, that doesn't matter.

00:37:36.180 That's besides the point.

00:37:37.840 It's not about whether vaccination is good, whether COVID is bad.

00:37:41.840 All of that is irrelevant.

00:37:43.260 The question is who gets to decide what your life should look like,

00:37:48.420 what your body should look like, what your academic future is.

00:37:53.780 You can have straight A's.

00:37:56.480 You could be the favorite student.

00:37:58.740 You could be on the dean's honor list. 0.83

00:38:00.200 You could have scholarships coming out your rear end.

00:38:02.640 I don't recommend that's where you put your scholarships,

00:38:04.940 but you know what?

00:38:05.600 That may be the only choice right now.

00:38:07.360 You could have all of that.

00:38:10.320 But if you don't get a third COVID shot to Western, you are nothing. 0.96

00:38:16.020 you are the problem in canadian society right now and i hope everyone involved in this 0.50

00:38:24.000 knows it we've got to end things there we will follow this story and hope that no other university

00:38:30.120 in canada goes down this road we'll talk to you in a couple of days time folks this is canada's

00:38:34.880 most irreverent talk show on true north the andrew lawton show thank you god bless and good day to you

00:38:40.200 all listening to the andrew lawton show support the program by donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - August 23, 2022

Western University forcing booster mandate onto staff and students

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