Juno News - Western University students push back against booster mandate

00:00:00.000 you're tuned in to the andrew lawton show

00:00:05.920 so right now if you are a prospective western student or not even perspective if you are

00:00:13.840 planning in two weeks which is when classes start to be going to western but you are not

00:00:18.680 comfortable or not willing for whatever reason to get a booster you now have to make alternative

00:00:25.040 alternative arrangements and let's talk a little bit about what the timeline has done here because

00:00:29.980 it was one week ago yesterday when the policy was announced that students had to put in their

00:00:35.700 first tuition installment so that was a week before the vaccine mandate was announced two

00:00:41.700 weeks to go for classes to start now western has said not publicly but they've said privately

00:00:48.560 and i got a copy of an email from them that it was going to be a refund policy if someone

00:00:54.000 wants it if someone wants a refund and they ask by september 1st they'll get their tuition

00:00:58.440 money back but even if that happens it's not going to deal with the disruption for

00:01:04.800 hey i plan to be in school and to be this many credits more closer to my agree my degree and

00:01:11.060 now i can't do that it doesn't deal with a lease if you had signed a contract for an apartment

00:01:16.420 for the year ahead and now you can't go to school and if you want to talk about how punitive

00:01:20.700 this mandate is it even applies to online students if there is any in-person component so that could

00:01:29.380 even be an exam if you're doing a class that for eight months you can do from your own home from your

00:01:35.160 computer but you need to go for like one day to do an exam all of a sudden you're subject to the vaccine

00:01:42.140 mandate so let's dispense with this idea that has anything to do with science at all they're going

00:01:47.860 above and beyond what the government is asking of them they're going above and beyond what any other

00:01:51.980 post-secondary institutions in the country are doing and at a time when people around the country

00:01:57.600 and around the world are trying to move beyond this 2020 covid mentality you've got institutions like

00:02:03.680 western in london ontario that are doubling down and tripling down it's no longer a post-secondary

00:02:09.420 education it's a dose secondary education three doses to be exact and that's only now until they

00:02:15.160 updated in the winter term and say you need the fourth dose if you want to go back to finish the

00:02:19.300 second half of whatever class you started in september we're going to talk about this from a couple of

00:02:24.400 different angles and i also want to get into the bigger picture here but fortunately i have to point

00:02:29.680 out students are fighting back students at western are pushing back against this and one notable example

00:02:36.240 is a twitter and instagram campaign that launched called enough is enough western the creator of this

00:02:43.240 kendra hancock joins me on the line now kendra we were talking a little bit about the disruption aspect

00:02:49.000 here but let me just first off talk about how many students are affected by this because i know you may

00:02:54.240 not have exact numbers but we know that booster uptake has been very low in general certainly for

00:03:00.300 people that are in the student age group i imagine that there are a lot of students who last year were

00:03:06.360 fully vaccinated that this year are ineligible to continue their studies yeah absolutely um we

00:03:12.900 actually just did some polling on that on instagram obviously it's a pretty casual poll um it's not like

00:03:18.640 it's a full-fledged investigation or anything but um we asked point blank who got the mandate or who got

00:03:25.320 the vaccines last year because of western's mandate um and versus who got it out there on accord the numbers

00:03:31.920 were you know very stark for people who got it because of western and i we also asked right after

00:03:38.580 that if you got it because of western's mandate did you feel forced and it's so far it's overwhelming

00:03:44.380 for people feeling like they're absolutely forced into this situation and the challenge is is that if

00:03:50.760 someone was let's say in their third year last year and they figured okay i'm halfway through i've got

00:03:56.760 to get the mandate and go the next year this year they're even more invested and and and it's

00:04:02.100 challenging because western would look and they did last year and said oh wow we have almost a 100

00:04:06.960 vaccination rate yeah but you got that through coercion yeah that one is always really funny to me 1.00

00:04:13.700 i heard it mentioned actually a couple times today that's the go-to defense it's kind of like if you

00:04:18.700 if a country said oh well 100 of our uh citizens have drafted themselves into the war have joined the war

00:04:25.180 effort but then you say yeah but don't you have conscription so it's either you get an exemption

00:04:29.980 or you get kicked out of the country so yeah yeah if you expel anyone that's not vaccinated you are

00:04:35.780 left with curiously a 100 vaccination rate it's funny how that works out what's been the effect on

00:04:43.140 you personally of this where are you in your studies and what will this mean for you

00:04:46.840 um it's actually been quite a long road and it's been just about a year since um the first news hit

00:04:53.600 about the pretty strong vaccination mandate um i just finished up in my bachelor's through here

00:05:00.480 on at western after being technically kicked out um that was a very interesting long process but

00:05:06.720 i know a few people were able to fight it and obviously um take advantage of i mean honestly good

00:05:12.880 timing and just being resilient in order to get their degree um it cost me a few extra thousand dollars

00:05:19.120 to do it because i had to do online studies at an outer province school to finish up worked really

00:05:25.360 hard to do it on a tighter timeline but i was able to get my degree so happy now to go back to western

00:05:31.600 for a master's program a year-long master's program and now obviously that's completely

00:05:37.040 up in the air so dreams have been a little crushed but i'm putting that aside because i know

00:05:41.840 that all the people we're representing right now through the account are all in the same situation

00:05:46.800 and they're obviously unhappy too you mentioned on your uh well maybe not you but someone on your

00:05:53.280 uh enough is enough account that may have been you tweeted out hey western you a lot of students

00:05:57.680 are ready to request refunds we're curious are you ready i don't know if it's a you know a thread

00:06:03.360 or a prediction or however we want to characterize it but but you're thinking here that there's going

00:06:07.760 to be a noticeable financial hit to the university yes uh that's what we're seeing i'd say it's um

00:06:14.560 um legal reasons it's not a threat no it's definitely just to put a little bit of pressure

00:06:20.400 and put them on the spot because they need to be they need to be held accountable um but yeah from

00:06:24.720 everything we've been seeing countless of people are are reaching out to us um are sharing these

00:06:30.240 infographics on how to request a refund as you're saying um how if you do it before a certain time and

00:06:36.320 get a full refund um a lot of people have told us they've already done it um you know a lot of people

00:06:41.840 are saying they're going to wait to see sort of what happens with obviously the advocacy coming

00:06:45.760 from us and from the student councils and hopefully we can get some things to change because it needs

00:06:50.320 to change um but it's it should be a fear of theirs because it's going to happen because students have

00:06:56.320 had enough so enough is enough i i looked at the western timetable is posted publicly so anyone can go

00:07:03.440 and look at what courses they offer and there are not a lot of courses that are available online there

00:07:08.160 are a lot that you can only do in person and as i mentioned uh briefly earlier there are also courses

00:07:13.600 that may be online but they have an in-person exam which under western's policy would would

00:07:18.080 theoretically disqualify you unless you could get uh an accommodation or an exemption or whatever the

00:07:23.360 the proper protocol is there so for students to do what you did is is very difficult in general

00:07:29.360 depending on program and certainly at a master's level at a graduate level when things are very

00:07:34.160 specialized and and they're giving students two weeks to figure this out yeah absolutely i think

00:07:39.840 that's it's got to be part of the goal um it was really difficult to do it last year not a lot of

00:07:44.960 people were able to some people were able to do things differently and able to get through the year

00:07:48.960 kudos to them of course um but i'd say westerns it seems like they're trying to make it more

00:07:53.920 impossible and that's the feeling amongst students and that's obviously really discouraging

00:07:59.200 considering they are so i'd say so distant from the student culture at the moment this is one of

00:08:06.640 the first times in a long time i've seen the entire student western student population be united and

00:08:13.200 that's a really great thing that's something that an administration should be proud of and take

00:08:16.880 advantage of instead it's trying to control us and divide us through silly tactics have you gotten any

00:08:25.600 sense as to who's really pushing this i mean i know some theories have been that the faculty where

00:08:31.760 you have some that are quite you know covet paranoid have been pushing this and you you can kind of see

00:08:36.400 this in the mask policy because if you look at the western mask policy it's that if you're in the classroom

00:08:42.080 you know where students are seated generally not talking you have to wear your mask but if you're in

00:08:47.120 the hallway talking doing whatever you want you don't have to wear a mask it's just encouraged so

00:08:51.680 the fact that you know covet only exists in the classroom and not in the hallway would seem to

00:08:56.640 not be particularly logical and i draw from that that you had professors that were saying you know

00:09:01.840 we will not teach in classrooms where people are not masked yeah it's been an interesting um

00:09:08.960 interesting to watch kind of unfold and i feel bad for the professors who are not for this because

00:09:14.160 they've been absolutely silenced i mean i've witnessed it i've talked to professors they've reached out to me

00:09:18.480 into they've been some of them have been vocal more on a private level as you know they go through

00:09:24.320 these faculty meetings well yeah tenured professors who thought they were unfireable

00:09:28.720 were fired last year because they couldn't comply with the vax mandate yeah and i mean way to isn't that

00:09:35.440 so i mean it's indicative of academia at the moment but it's so against fundamental academic principles

00:09:41.760 i know so many people who have gone through the last year and say i'm done with university obviously

00:09:46.480 it's not a culture and environment they want to be in and i absolutely get that because it's just

00:09:51.120 it's become what it's become right now um but unfortunately you know for many people midway

00:09:56.080 through their degree you already have so much money put into it if you want to be employable if you want

00:10:01.040 to move on the rest of your life um you're already so invested you have to continue

00:10:07.120 yeah i would agree with you and i would also add that you know we were talking about coercion earlier and i

00:10:12.560 i think for students who just have a timeline like i remember when i came out of high school i i had

00:10:17.040 i mean obviously every prediction i had for my life ended up being wrong but you know it's like

00:10:21.200 okay i've got it four years to do this and then i'm going to do this and then i'm going to do this and

00:10:24.320 it's easy to set those targets and timelines and you don't anticipate that you could be a straight

00:10:29.760 a student you could be getting 80s 90s and uh for nothing to do with your academic performance you

00:10:35.840 will not you will you will be at least a year behind maybe two years behind last year plus this

00:10:40.640 year because of this vaccine mandate and unable to complete your studies at all or unable to complete

00:10:46.320 them on the timeline you wanted and for no scientific basis and that's the part that really stings i mean

00:10:53.520 we saw it last year and i hope we can avoid it this year i truly do um where good students um people

00:11:00.240 who do extracurriculars who put the hard work who are perhaps on a roll who really care about their

00:11:05.520 studies they're putting all this work in and they're getting trespass notices when their exemption

00:11:11.520 fails they are getting carried out of class by security for failing to comply so it's it's backwards

00:11:19.280 obviously and i hope it's not obviously from our position from what i'm seeing from students i don't

00:11:24.960 think it's too far gone i think we can take it back i think we can get back to being united and

00:11:30.480 reasonable and actually focusing on what matters which is education and the student experience

00:11:36.400 i mean obviously there are under the human rights act and western has acknowledged this exemptions

00:11:42.480 that people can get for medical reasons and also for religious or conscientious reasons now these have

00:11:49.360 been very difficult for some people to obtain although i know there have been some examples of it

00:11:54.560 some students can go this route but obviously if that process becomes overrun you know western's

00:11:59.680 probably just going to say no we're not playing ball here do you think western will cave on this or do

00:12:05.680 you think that you know they're just committed at this point i think they should cave on this i think

00:12:11.200 it's in their best interest um obviously if their motivations aren't the middlesex london health unit

00:12:17.840 or the chief medical officer of health if their motivations for this aren't directly from public health

00:12:22.640 recommendations like they have said if that's not the case then their their motivations are obviously

00:12:29.920 more on the selfish side there's obviously something else going on um which could overpower

00:12:35.520 their obviously their interest in hearing students out but i think they won't have much of a choice

00:12:40.640 because students are really passionate um and obviously are getting organized and i think that

00:12:46.640 this is um that we have a good chance uh making an impact here just because you brought it up i will

00:12:53.440 have to ask you about this idea of the guidance and advice and there was something that was very

00:12:59.600 interesting that you pointed out to me when we were speaking earlier that the previous policy the two

00:13:05.040 dose policy had all of this uh pre-ambulatory stuff about where the policy basically came from

00:13:12.080 the new one doesn't have that it doesn't say this is a direct response to the guidance and advice

00:13:17.840 we're giving here and so far i can't find anyone giving guidance and advice saying this yeah absolutely

00:13:24.960 and um i had a sneaking suspicion that that could happen and that they might try to do something

00:13:31.040 along those lines so i saved that document um just so even for my own reasons so i could compare

00:13:37.040 because last year of course the guidelines were pretty the parameters were pretty laid out um and

00:13:42.640 there wasn't too much of a choice on their on their side just because of the state ontario's in and the

00:13:47.600 direction the ontario government was going but that's not the case now so i know what a lot of people

00:13:52.880 and what a lot of students are thinking and are saying thankfully is where is the data where is the

00:13:58.880 recommendation what is the reasoning where is this coming from we need to know we need the data

00:14:05.520 that actually shows that someone with two or less doses is a physical threat to others on campus

00:14:12.240 because that has to be the bottom line i know you touched on this a little bit before but the audio

00:14:18.480 was not as great on that first answer so if you need to restate anything please do but why have you

00:14:23.440 made the decision to speak out because i know a lot of people don't want to go down this road of

00:14:27.360 opening themselves up for all of the naysaying and you know negativity that comes from from speaking

00:14:33.120 out on anything but certainly on this issue why have you decided yeah i'm willing to put my name

00:14:37.680 and face behind this i'm actually a really private person so this whole thing has been um a bit

00:14:44.240 overwhelming um but it's just one of the situations where it needs to be said um last year i attempted to

00:14:50.400 speak out it didn't go quite as well just because um i'd say people weren't ready yet people weren't ready to

00:14:56.560 see it yet people were thinking okay we go along with this and then everything will be fine things

00:15:02.160 will resume it's just one year it's just that most of us are vaccinated anyway it doesn't matter it's

00:15:06.720 really that mentality you were up against yeah yes and then people i guess people who maybe didn't

00:15:11.920 believe that or maybe who were sympathetic it would just maybe there wasn't a point in in trying to

00:15:16.800 speak up or support it um i just say it people were probably looking forward to the future and things

00:15:22.080 getting better and now that more people know that places like western are hung up on not moving

00:15:28.560 forward um things have to be said so basically as soon as i saw the announcement um i knew this had

00:15:35.760 to be done and i was kind of preparing beforehand and i thought about some things that might be helpful

00:15:40.960 for the community to know or to have one central spot where people could talk and um could support one

00:15:47.520 another but i did not expect it to go so well it is as it has so far um i've definitely had to take

00:15:53.840 on some extra support and we'll have to continue doing that because um i was able to keep up with

00:15:58.560 messages now i'm probably 700 messages behind so it's gone a little out of hand but obviously in a great

00:16:05.280 way well i'm glad you got to my message then and we're able to uh to come on the uh the twitter account

00:16:10.800 is students for agency it's called enough is enough western and i know you're also on uh what's the

00:16:16.720 instagram handle as well i'm not never as good on instagram oh it's the same so it's students for

00:16:21.920 number four agency all right good and i think there's a tremendous value in what you're doing

00:16:27.440 not only because you're right and i think on the right side of history here but but also because when

00:16:32.240 western touts that 100 vaccination rate or 99.99 bajillion percent vaccination rate they're trying to

00:16:39.520 isolate anyone that's not in that group and they're trying to say that you are alone and i think

00:16:44.320 when you stand up in the way that you've done you're telling people hey you're not alone and there

00:16:48.320 are hundreds if not thousands of us absolutely and that's what it's about we're going to be united

00:16:54.240 it's your own choice if you want four vaccines go for it if you want zero go for it if you want to

00:16:58.560 wear a mask for however long you want to wear it for go ahead it's not it shouldn't keep us apart

00:17:04.480 there's no reason for it to keep us apart especially as a school so she has a community

00:17:09.200 so i just hope we can continue this momentum and keep moving forward well said well what's next

00:17:15.360 for enough is enough what can we expect from you in the coming days um well there's definitely going

00:17:20.880 to be some more posts and the students have spoken they want if it is needed which um we'll have to

00:17:28.240 kind of keep an eye on the next couple days they want a in-person demonstration people students are

00:17:33.840 ready to have their voices heard um in that format so um we'll have to keep an eye out for that but

00:17:39.520 we're definitely very willing to get something like that going well let me know and i will be there

00:17:44.480 as a fellow monitor kendra hancock creator of enough is enough thank you so much and truly congratulations

00:17:50.640 on launching this movement thanks for having me thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show

00:17:55.920 support the program by donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - August 24, 2022

Western University students push back against booster mandate

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