Juno News - September 17, 2021


What does the election mean for the west？


Episode Stats

Length

54 minutes

Words per Minute

189.31143

Word Count

10,255

Sentence Count

6

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

6


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true north
00:00:10.180 coming up no one's been talking about the west this election now it has to change we'll talk
00:00:17.840 about western interest with brett wilson and also shine a light on the maverick party
00:00:22.120 the andrew lawton show starts right now
00:00:27.420 hello and welcome to another edition of canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton
00:00:35.560 show here on true north it is friday september 17th just a few days left until the election
00:00:42.880 and then we go back to the normal content you've come to know and hopefully love here on the andrew
00:00:48.280 lawton show now i have a feeling no matter what happens we'll have a lot of material to get through
00:00:53.300 in the months and perhaps years to come as you know i don't make predictions because that way it's
00:00:58.880 impossible to be wrong but when i have looked at the polls one thing that's been fairly clear
00:01:04.140 is that there hasn't been a lot of movement now all of the polls have basically been saying the
00:01:10.000 same thing which is firstly that we're in minority government territory and also that the liberals and
00:01:15.160 the conservatives are expected to be fairly close now the question about which one comes up on top
00:01:21.480 and in the case of a conservative victory whether that even means the chance to govern afterwards
00:01:26.880 still stands to be seen but now the discussion has shifted and the conservative response to the ppc
00:01:35.540 surge that we talked about in the previous episode is really coming down to listen the only way to
00:01:41.240 defeat justin trudeau is to vote for the conservatives the erin o'toole is saying he's the only guy that
00:01:47.240 can beat justin trudeau so if you don't want justin trudeau no matter what you've got to vote for him
00:01:51.200 that's the message from the conservatives right now the question there is whether that in and of
00:01:55.400 itself is enough of a pitch to small c conservative voters but as we say we shall certainly see last
00:02:02.880 time i focused on the ppc a couple of weeks ago i put a bit of a spotlight on the christian heritage
00:02:08.200 party we're not just about the major mainstream parties here we want all of these alternative
00:02:13.880 parties that are trying to offer something different in politics to have a voice and with that i want to
00:02:20.100 turn to a different party this episode but in the context of a different theme and that is what
00:02:26.000 this election means for the west as you know i am not a westerner i may have a westerner sensibility
00:02:33.440 about me but i'm not from alberta although i have paid very close attention to the growing western
00:02:38.620 alienation problem because i realized that the west matters western industry matters western culture
00:02:45.520 matters western voices matter there's a reason that i've spoken at a few conferences in alberta
00:02:52.200 that have very specifically dealt with this issue because i'm on your side i want the west and i want
00:02:57.460 alberta to be able to get fair deals with the government and with confederation and i realize that
00:03:02.440 the status quo is not working and a big part of that is because the mainstream media is dominated by
00:03:08.600 people who have no western connection politics tends to be dominated by non-western voices and as a
00:03:15.420 result you get this part of the country that is completely taken for granted the quebecers will cash
00:03:21.320 the alberta checks the politicians will take the alberta votes but for the most part nothing goes in
00:03:27.560 return and it's in that vein that i wanted to focus on the west this episode and what this election
00:03:35.360 will mean for the west and then also talk about one of the parties that's putting itself forward as an
00:03:40.280 alternative to all of these eastern dominated parties and that is the maverick party led by
00:03:45.480 former conservative minister and member of parliament jay hill but before we get into that i want to start
00:03:50.920 big picture here let's talk to brent wilson you may know him formerly as one of the stars of the show
00:03:56.520 dragon's den an investor a venture capitalist and he doesn't just play one on tv he does that in real life
00:04:02.460 he's the head of the prairie merchant corporation and some of you may just know him as an absolute
00:04:08.000 firebrand on twitter doesn't shy away from telling people what he thinks including justin trudeau
00:04:15.140 and brent wilson i sat down with him in calgary last week to talk about what this election means for
00:04:21.320 the west what are the stakes this is our conversation i mean first and foremost here business generally
00:04:27.980 speaking is there to adapt and you know you've had liberal governments conservative governments
00:04:31.960 in alberta provincially ndp governments conservative governments but i'm getting the sense from a lot of
00:04:37.460 people that this is a particularly higher stakes election certainly out west and i'm just curious
00:04:41.400 what your take on that is well let me roll the camera back for just a few moments and that was to
00:04:46.340 the day that stephen harper cancelled income trusts that was punitive to our industry and they were
00:04:52.380 working with bad information so there i was frustrated with the conservatives don't get me wrong very
00:04:57.140 frustrated but at least they respected the industry they listened they communicated they engaged and
00:05:03.480 what we've seen under a liberal federal government is no concern whatsoever they bought a pipeline but
00:05:10.060 it was a pipeline that was necessary for canadian infrastructure that wasn't going to get built and
00:05:15.120 so they knew it was necessary ultimately i believe it'll be owned by aboriginal or first nations
00:05:19.940 but they that's the one thing that they can say they've done the liberals can say they've done
00:05:25.040 but putting a cap on carbon tax or on the emissions and the oil sands trying to cap the oil sands growth
00:05:30.960 uh killing gateway not supporting uh keystone xl in any way shape or form and then biden goes to
00:05:37.800 goes to saudi arabia and says come on we need some oil well we're here waving our hands except it's the
00:05:44.100 west that's waving its hand it's not the oil industry's proponent which would should be could be
00:05:50.260 the federal liberal government who just didn't care so no the west is extraordinarily frustrated
00:05:55.160 by the liberal lack of concern for confederation that's the way i describe it and west is part of
00:06:00.900 confederation if they were concerned about every piece of confederation we would know about it but
00:06:05.420 they're not and when pipelines were brought up just to look at the debates as one example it was in a
00:06:11.100 very ideological way not about really the nuts and bolts of what this means for canada's economy
00:06:16.180 what it means for the energy sector and and even a lot of the opposition we see to pipelines are
00:06:21.820 is not met with any proposal of okay well what else it's it's missing that like you mentioned
00:06:28.040 saudi arabia is there to pick up whatever canadian oil is not being sold well it's it's ludicrous
00:06:33.860 that we're importing let's call it close to a million barrels a day from other nations and other
00:06:38.680 nations who don't have the same respect for pollution for rule of law for call it the environment
00:06:43.840 for women and children so we're buying oil from countries that don't care they're not paying a
00:06:49.200 carbon tax in any way shape or form they just don't care so a third of our oil comes in without
00:06:55.160 being tagged with any kind of carbon tax and we don't make any of the indigenous or the embedded
00:07:00.220 profit that could be made the capital that's invested there's a return on capital there's people
00:07:05.320 and i'm just talking about if we were producing incremental oil in the west where we already have
00:07:10.040 the third largest oil reserves in the world and this energy east idea has been vetoed by
00:07:15.000 again in quebec there was a leader who said we don't do no pipelines well what do you mean you
00:07:19.240 don't do no pipelines you're bringing it in by ship which is effectively a pipeline from the other side
00:07:24.240 of the world and you don't care and this is what's getting frustrating and that's where my pitch
00:07:28.900 is always for confederation to work it has to be fair and the liberals don't care i know that at the
00:07:35.480 provincial level there's been a lot of talk about how alberta specifically can sort of assert itself
00:07:40.020 and get a better deal with confederation at the end of the day though alberta can say whatever it
00:07:45.020 wants it needs a federal government that's going to be interested in that and whether it's equalization
00:07:48.860 or whether it's other things and we see in politics a lot of the time quebec being handed
00:07:53.080 a particular deal that is not extended to any other province it's not extended to the west
00:07:57.560 and when you talk to colleagues of yours in business here what's the sense they have because we've
00:08:04.300 seen oil and gas companies that have been leaving alberta is that going to continue is that going
00:08:08.160 to increase well i'm less concerned about the international companies that have left canada
00:08:12.280 because they've left the oil industry for us again we have investors we have people we have
00:08:16.520 businesses canadian natural sun core they grow and i'm still involved with actively financing the
00:08:21.760 growth of many juniors so that's that's okay but the frustration comes in the complete disregard
00:08:27.580 for the importance of the oil industry to canada you know the fact that we could have a pipeline
00:08:32.560 that we could be shipping oil whether it's gateway keystone xl energy east those are all parts of
00:08:37.420 participating in the global oil and gas industry we ship coal to china we don't attach a carbon tax
00:08:44.040 again we ship coal to china without a carbon tax and they're still growing their carbon footprint
00:08:50.080 and there's not a peep you don't hear it from the again name some names eco justice sierra club
00:08:55.600 none of them say a word the national resource defense council all they want to do is attack canada
00:09:02.440 and that's why i was a big fan of the work that vivian krause did saying hey there's a lot of
00:09:06.740 foreign influences interfering with the potential growth of the canadian oil and gas industry but
00:09:12.340 going back i don't see any support for the energy sector out of seamus oregon i've known seamus for
00:09:17.620 20 years i don't see any support in any way shape or forms from gm butts jerry butts is anti oil and gas
00:09:24.520 industry and trudeau has talked about capping it all of those things undermine the west's interest in
00:09:30.220 being part of canada and that's where if trudeau got in with the majority government i think you'll
00:09:35.160 see the people's party of canada under maxime grow and you would also see the maverick party gain
00:09:41.080 strength that was unimagined and i don't think anyone realizes the depth of support that would
00:09:46.700 be available to the maxim or to the to the maverick party if trudeau was back in power under under o'toole
00:09:54.460 i believe there'll be a negotiation because without doubt we're expecting a referendum this
00:09:59.560 fall i think the referendum question as phrased by kenny is nothing short of brilliant challenging
00:10:04.480 how do we attack confederation and the paperwork that's associated because that's all it is and
00:10:10.160 separation doesn't involve digging a trench like we're not physically leaving but separation is a
00:10:16.180 negotiating tool and i again i'm not the first to want to be separated but i'm the first to want a
00:10:21.500 better deal and i'm not seeing a better deal coming out of a liberal relationship i believe
00:10:25.760 o'toole would be the party that kenny could work with and alberta could work with and don't forget
00:10:30.420 saskatchewan comes with us in this conversation and most of british columbia most of do a little
00:10:36.220 sweep around the south in that island and that's that's the only part that doesn't believe in the
00:10:41.000 energy industry the rest does i work with aboriginal people across the west we are all supportive
00:10:47.660 of the energy industry the liberal party isn't whenever the liberals and ndp talk about whether
00:10:54.420 it was phasing out the oil sands to use justin turdeau's term for from a few years ago or some
00:10:59.520 of the proposals more recently they always talk about this magical transition that any oil and gas
00:11:04.180 worker who loses their job will be picked up you know doing something in the green sector
00:11:08.460 the government is prepared to put billions into green technology and green energy but there doesn't
00:11:13.880 seem to be a trust or an interest in people in the west to go along with that well one of my core
00:11:20.060 businesses is producing electricity we produce electricity from a gas fire generator we are
00:11:25.940 expanding that using heat recovery heat recovery is the most efficient form of power production in
00:11:31.960 the world nothing touches it heat recovery it's waste heat it was going into the air it doesn't
00:11:36.920 matter what's in the air it's heat recovery federal government wouldn't talk to us about
00:11:41.080 infrastructure support in any way shape or form that's number one so i do know what i'm talking
00:11:45.780 about when it comes to electricity generation do i believe in solar do i believe in wind yeah i'm
00:11:50.440 invested in both of those but they can only work when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing and
00:11:56.220 when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow you have nothing and the idea that batteries are going
00:12:01.120 to be ready for us nobody dares to look at the full life cycle of the cost carbon cost human cost
00:12:07.920 the impact on people the impact on the environment of producing batteries lithium all the other things
00:12:12.840 that have to be the rare earths that have to be produced nobody has a foresight to really has the
00:12:18.720 foresight to be able to show us how the economics can work and so if they just simply want to subsidize
00:12:24.520 it and pretend that we're not going to have power at night or on cold windy or cold non-windy days
00:12:30.660 we're in trouble so we absolutely have to have either nuclear or natural gas those are the two
00:12:37.580 primary sources we can expand water but let's not forget for a moment that hydro backs up and destroys
00:12:44.080 land it takes away land from people in some way shape or form so there's a cost to hydro that's not
00:12:49.780 talked about either again natural gas and nuclear are the solution not this potential green revolution
00:12:56.040 do i believe in solar and wind to be part of our energy grid absolutely but they're not base and we
00:13:02.540 need base if we want the lights on for a moment look at ida hurricane ida shut down louisiana for a
00:13:09.940 month in terms of its power grid how do you think the electricity will be supplied to the teslas and if
00:13:17.100 we had for example fire trucks that were running off of batteries and there's no electricity what do we do
00:13:23.580 and that's for a month there isn't a charging station in louisiana that's working so nobody's
00:13:30.400 talking about that and how many people want to sit in an electric car when they're driving through a
00:13:33.660 flood probably zero your hair will be standing on end because you don't know you just don't know
00:13:40.040 and that's where the natural gas or i call it they people keep calling it fossil fuels because they
00:13:45.020 want to criticize it it's like the tar sands but they are the oil sands the oil sands are the largest oil
00:13:49.900 spill in the world by taking sand and separating from the oil we're cleaning up the largest oil
00:13:55.660 spill in the world that's one of the ways of looking at the oil sands and then i always call
00:13:59.840 it hydrocarbons these are hydrocarbons that we're working on and we generate paint we generate
00:14:04.900 all sorts of products that are necessary for living day to day so this transition gets us nowhere
00:14:11.540 beyond oil and gas i know obviously this is a big part of the work that you do but you're also in
00:14:17.260 numerous other areas of business here what would a trudeau re-election mean for canadian business by
00:14:24.120 and large because to go back to where we started business does adapt and and they do navigate their
00:14:28.880 way around red tape and burdens and regulations and fees and all that but but are we at a critical
00:14:33.920 crossroads here for business in general in canada well there's confusion at every level within the
00:14:39.360 federal government in terms of the liberals and even the ndp when they talk about taxing you know
00:14:44.040 the liberal talk of taxing residences well who's ever tracked the true cost of their residence when
00:14:49.440 you renovate so there's a cost base that hasn't been calculated or thought about how do you value
00:14:53.840 companies every year that ndp doesn't think about and as long as the ndp and the liberals are
00:14:58.340 influencing thought processes relative to how does a business operate we're in trouble now does the
00:15:04.780 conservative the only answer no i'm not going to argue that lots of good ideas but the frustration
00:15:09.200 out of being in a liberal driven government is you're waiting on subsidies you're waiting on
00:15:14.300 esg which isn't always the smartest way to run a business should we be responsible environmentally
00:15:19.680 i happen to think that population and pollution are the two issues on our planet and how do we deal
00:15:24.460 with pollution well we don't stop producing it it's how we recycle it you know there's going to
00:15:29.780 be garbage but it's how we recover it 90 of the plastic in the world's oceans comes from southeast
00:15:35.020 asia and yet canada is trying to stop and we could recycle our plastic single-use plastics which are
00:15:40.680 used in medicine used in groceries and no we're going to take plastic straws out of the industry
00:15:45.760 and say that we're ahead of the curve we're that's pure fallacy it's hypocrisy and that's why as long
00:15:51.980 as the liberals are trying to run the government of the day and influence businesses of the day we're
00:15:57.200 in trouble yeah and the plastics ban is a particularly interesting one because all of a sudden when the
00:16:02.120 pandemic hit and sanitation was the big question no one was talking about banning single-use plastics
00:16:07.740 again and now it's creeping back into the political discourse now that we're starting to move beyond
00:16:12.220 that but single-use plastics were arguably the greatest benefit to uh most industry during the
00:16:17.780 pandemic when i emphasize the the issue is dealing with the garbage not not producing it and again
00:16:23.160 medical and groceries there's single waste single-use plastics everywhere and it's all in how we capture
00:16:29.620 them so where we're not ending up in the oceans no the canadian ones are not ending up in the oceans
00:16:34.660 is the water floating with pipe or plastic in it yeah for sure i'm not going to pretend it isn't but
00:16:39.680 again 90 you can see videos online in indonesia of people backing up garbage trucks and simply dumping
00:16:45.080 it off the edge into the ocean because they don't have any place for it they're an island
00:16:48.080 well where else would it go except the ocean well it shows up for us and yet nobody stops to think
00:16:54.180 about that so my pitch is we need to emphasize the recycling and capture of waste and again organics
00:17:00.760 can be processed one way paper another but as we all know it's common practice that all the recycling
00:17:06.020 bins get dumped into one box then they go to the garbage fill so we're not truly recycling so i'm not
00:17:11.820 worried about waste in the oceans i'm worried about how we properly recycle and that means we do produce
00:17:17.260 we do make we do use but the recycling effort is what's necessary to go back to for a moment the
00:17:23.800 divide between the west and the rest of canada you've traveled a lot you know people in all parts
00:17:31.100 of the country you've probably met many people that have that same antipathy towards the west and
00:17:36.760 western industries that we see in government do you think it's possible to rectify that do people
00:17:41.580 understand when you talk to them about the effect of these industries do they listen to these points
00:17:45.860 that you're making or do people really just dig their heels in and say you know what we need to
00:17:49.780 move beyond oil and gas at the end of june i was in montreal for health reasons just to check up
00:17:55.640 and i met with four different groups of people had two lunches two dinners not once was there an
00:18:02.380 acknowledgement that energy east was a good idea they didn't know they didn't know that they were
00:18:08.800 taking a third of our country's oil from a saudi arabia another another nations like that they didn't
00:18:15.040 know they didn't know energy east was an option and that's four couples business people business
00:18:20.720 leaders people who are active in the community no knowledge so what that means is that there's no
00:18:26.420 press coverage and there's certainly no media or pardon me political coverage and as long as what
00:18:32.040 political coverage there is or media coverage is is anti you know we're going to shut down the oil and
00:18:37.880 gas industry we're going to shut down you know waste you know single-use plastics everything is negative
00:18:43.000 there's not one conversation about how do we make canada better number one we should be self-sufficient
00:18:48.680 in energy there's just no debate in that because every dollar the profit that goes into the oil that
00:18:54.280 we buy from saudi arabia venezuela other places is dollars that we could be using here that goes into
00:18:59.320 hospitals and roads and whatever else but we're buying a billion plus dollars of oil a day from people
00:19:05.720 who don't care about us in any way shape or form and yet we could be producing our own oil we have the economics we have the
00:19:12.600 infrastructure we have the people we have the knowledge we have the capital as i said we have
00:19:17.240 the economics are there we could be doing it but no we got a couple people down east to say ah we don't
00:19:21.640 want no pipelines and yet they're willing to take oil ship down the saint lawrence river and dropped off
00:19:28.080 i've heard rumors that the longshoremen in quebec may be mafia influenced who knows but they play a big
00:19:33.720 role in the anti-pipeline movement because they don't want to lose the pipeline coming or the oil coming in
00:19:40.840 down the seaway that they take into their ports so there's a huge underground that says no we don't
00:19:46.200 want that pipeline which is why sometimes i joke about let's ship up take a pipeline to the end of
00:19:50.600 whatever lake toronto's on big of the great lakes and then ship the oil up the great lakes people go
00:19:56.360 oh no we're not shipping oil up the great lakes well it's fine to come down the saint lawrence but
00:20:00.680 it's not okay to go up the great lakes and again that's the hypocrisy of ignorance and this goes to
00:20:06.200 your very point is how do we educate how do we engage and that's why under a liberal government
00:20:10.760 under an ndp government under a again if it was influenced by the green party you know we would turn
00:20:15.960 the faucets off for the oil and gas industry tomorrow and then wonder why the rest of the world is
00:20:22.120 thriving and we're not thank you for your candor appreciate it as you can hear in that it's not
00:20:28.680 exactly a great picture for the west right now and it seems like there's a bit of resilience that
00:20:34.200 naturally comes and i kind of touched on this in a couple of my questions of businesses being able
00:20:38.840 to adapt but at a certain point you can't adapt your way out of this full-on assault from government
00:20:45.320 which is in a lot of cases how the liberal government's record on the oil and gas sector
00:20:50.120 has been and you just can't take the oil and gas sector out of alberta and this is one of the big
00:20:56.440 problems there's a lot of conversation that you'll hear not as much in the mainstream media because no
00:21:01.320 one's covering it but if you start paying closer attention you will called a just transition and
00:21:06.920 the whole nature of this the premise of this concept is that we have to transition away from
00:21:13.320 traditional energy sources transition away from hydrocarbons and the problem with this just
00:21:19.560 transition is that there's nothing just about it there's nothing to actually transition to
00:21:25.640 there's nothing to actually transition to so for a lot of people this is just going to be the death
00:21:32.440 knell for their jobs and for their careers and it's not just that oh well we have to keep all jobs going
00:21:38.440 at the expense of the environment it's about recognizing that the oil and gas sector is doing
00:21:43.480 a lot more a lot more efficiently to modernize and to be more environmentally friendly than any government
00:21:50.280 regulation has to but this has to happen organically you can't just sign the death warrant for an
00:21:55.480 industry which is what so much of federal government policy has really been hell-bent on doing and the
00:22:01.640 idea of the oil and gas sector getting a middle finger from the government is not the only frustration
00:22:07.240 that people in the west have but it certainly is a significant one and i think it underscores the
00:22:12.520 problems because it's resources that make the west so wealthy it's that wealth that allows ottawa to just
00:22:18.920 kind of go back and and drill for cash and then that happens in a way that just disproportionately
00:22:25.880 shares that wealth with everyone else in the country without really giving anything but scorn
00:22:30.760 back to the west this is kind of the cycle of western canada's relationship with confederation
00:22:36.120 and one of the reasons that so many people in alberta in saskatchewan in parts of bc are saying
00:22:42.200 the west wants out traditionally it used to be that the west wanted a seat at the table
00:22:47.800 now a lot of people and more and more people are saying we want independence in october there is
00:22:53.240 a referendum on equalization that is a stepping stone a lot of people think towards independence
00:23:00.040 the question comes down to whether an independence mindset can be pursued at the federal level
00:23:06.200 a la the bloc quebecois jay hill thinks it can he is the interim leader of the maverick party he's
00:23:12.920 not actually seeking a seat and we'll talk about that in just a moment but the maverick party which
00:23:17.800 originally was called the wexit party but changed its name is seeking a number of kind
00:23:22.920 of conservative proposals but at its core they want a better deal for the west and if they can't
00:23:28.680 get that they want out and with that i want to welcome into the program the interim leader of the
00:23:34.040 maverick party jay hill jay good to talk to you again thanks for coming on today my pleasure andrew
00:23:40.680 so let's first off talk about where the maverick party fits into this i've spent a lot of time on
00:23:44.920 the show talking about western alienation the growing western independence movement a lot of
00:23:50.280 that has really been coming from people that want to make changes at the provincial level whereas
00:23:54.520 the maverick party is running candidates in a federal election what's the goal here
00:24:00.680 well as we explain on our website andrew it's really a twin track approach
00:24:06.120 we're trying to ensure that most westerners would feel welcome in a federal home led by the maverick
00:24:12.920 party as a partisan political movement what we're suggesting is that either we need to have a
00:24:22.760 renewed arrangement with the rest of canada that treats the west fairly under confederation and that's
00:24:31.080 why we've proposed five constitutional amendments to accomplish that or alternatively we need to work
00:24:38.200 towards greater autonomy and independence for western canada and we have a plan and just to make this
00:24:45.880 clear for people when you're talking about the west and western canada you're not talking about alberta
00:24:50.600 specifically no well we're talking about all four western provinces and indeed in the future
00:24:57.960 potentially the three northern territories so basically everything west and north of the hudson's bay
00:25:05.080 explain why you think there can be a solution at a federal level here because even if you were to have
00:25:11.000 every seat west of ontario say there still is going to be an ontario and quebec dominance in parliament
00:25:17.880 so what could a slate of western mps keeping in mind you're not running them in in every western riding
00:25:23.240 but what could uh even the full slate of maverick candidates getting elected really do with those
00:25:28.600 odds against you in the house of commons well that's an excellent question andrew and what we've
00:25:34.840 suggested to westerners is to look to quebec and the example of the block quebecois as an answer to that
00:25:42.360 question i would argue having spent my entire 17 years in the house of commons with block members
00:25:51.240 that their strategy is very simple they actually communicate it very forthrightly they don't try to
00:25:57.160 hide the fact that they are there strictly to represent quebec and quebec's best interests so what
00:26:02.840 i'm suggesting is that what we need in the house of commons is a group of western members of parliament very
00:26:10.200 similar to the block uh that would be there only to represent western interests and that's what we're
00:26:17.560 endeavoring to do with this first election uh we're as you say we're barely a year old uh so we're only
00:26:24.360 running in 29 writings where the westerners in those writings will have that option of supporting a
00:26:30.760 maverick candidate uh on monday and uh we'll see whether they participate in that alternative
00:26:38.280 i just spent a couple of days covering maxime bernier's campaign for the people's party in
00:26:43.960 alberta and a lot of voters there were asking him listen i i want to vote maverick or ppc how do i
00:26:49.560 decide and the message that he was giving them is that the block quebecois has never really done
00:26:55.160 anything for quebec only the parti quebecois has so he's basically trying to say that a federal party
00:27:01.160 cannot get results for a province what's your response to that well i think that's absolute nonsense i
00:27:07.400 think where we've failed in western canada ever since confederation and certainly for the last
00:27:12.600 hundred years or so andrew is that we've never done what quebec has done in the sense of playing
00:27:19.560 the independence card if you will even today jason kenny and other provincial politicians are reticent
00:27:29.160 to do that they're very reluctant in fact they say they don't even want to talk about independence
00:27:34.600 my view having spent as they say 17 years of my life uh in the house of commons trying to make
00:27:40.840 things work uh in parliament for the west is that until we actually suggest that we're ready to leave
00:27:50.040 we're never going to get a fair deal and that's the message we're carrying and in the short term
00:27:56.760 maverick members of parliament operating similar to the block would carry the message of true western
00:28:02.840 representation i argue now that the conservatives the liberals the ndp greens and even the ppc are not
00:28:11.080 going to accurately represent the best interests of westerners so that's my argument to max bernie i
00:28:17.400 would suggest that max should be refocusing in these last few days on his own riding in quebec if
00:28:23.480 he's serious about re-entering parliament and win that riding instead of being out here in alberta
00:28:30.280 telling albertas albertans how to vote as you mentioned the mavericks are only fielding 29
00:28:36.040 candidates here so i don't think it's going to come as a shock to say that you aren't going to be
00:28:39.640 forming a majority government come monday or forming a government at all but with that it's also
00:28:45.960 interesting to me that you as the interim leader are in an election campaign not seeking a seat yourself
00:28:51.480 you're not a permanent leader you are an interim leader what are voters to make of this that you're a
00:28:57.000 party that doesn't even really have a leader that's standing with their other candidates wanting to
00:29:01.960 seek a seat well i would suggest they look at my personal history andrew i've put in the big part of
00:29:09.640 my adult lifetime in parliament already um you know i guess if i was an ex-con i'd say i've served my time
00:29:17.400 uh and uh so you know there's myself and three of my former reform party colleagues between us we have
00:29:26.920 over 60 years of parliamentary experience the four of us are not seeking seats back in parliament as
00:29:34.200 they say we've served our time down in the house of commons and we're trying to mentor this new crop
00:29:40.360 of of candidates that have stepped forward to run for the maverick party so it's a transition period
00:29:47.800 um i would ask all voters looking at alternatives to look at our website at maverickparty.ca
00:29:57.400 look at our twin track mission statement look at our eight guiding principles and our policies and our
00:30:03.160 platform our constitution unlike the ppc we actually have a party constitution we have a governing
00:30:10.280 council and their bios are all on there this is not a one-man party like maxime bernier and as you
00:30:17.880 said i quite proudly identify as the interim leader it's my intention to try to help the party establish
00:30:25.800 credibility but from that point on andrew we're looking to hand it over to the next generation of
00:30:31.960 younger folks we know that during the conservative party of canada leadership race erin o'toole
00:30:38.520 was very much trying to align himself with the west not pretend to be a westerner but he had jason
00:30:43.320 kenny's endorsement he did a lot of campaigning in alberta in the federal election campaign and i've
00:30:48.760 been following it fairly closely i've not really heard western interests brought up all that much at
00:30:53.800 all they didn't factor into the debates there have been some uh western adjacent topics in in the
00:30:59.560 context of pipelines but but there really hasn't been much oxygen given to western interest in my view and
00:31:05.320 i'm curious what your thoughts about that are well i would completely agree andrew it's not only during
00:31:11.480 the campaign but i would argue ever since uh erin o'toole won the leadership of the conservative party
00:31:17.560 of canada he has singularly focused on central canada on on the needs of toronto and surrounding area
00:31:25.240 and even more so on quebec and uh you know why is erin o'toole and all of his western conservative
00:31:33.640 members of parliament silent on how they would advocate people respond to jason kenny's equalization
00:31:41.160 referendum next month we haven't heard in that regard uh i certainly know how maverick feels that
00:31:47.880 we'll be urging everyone associated with maverick party to support uh that referendum question in
00:31:55.160 other words vote yes uh that uh that should be removed from our constitution in canada it's unfair
00:32:01.560 to the west uh it's always been unfair and it's even more so today with the struggles of our primary
00:32:08.840 industries and uh and albertans in particular but indeed people across the prairie west so uh there's a
00:32:17.000 multitude of issues from carbon tax flip-flop uh to his willingness to have a contract with quebec to
00:32:25.320 ensure that quebecers get everything that they want uh and yet no mention as you say andrew of
00:32:32.440 what the west needs and indeed deserves and that's where the maverick party comes in and uh and why we
00:32:39.560 believe that only a maverick member of parliament will represent what is best for the west i know the
00:32:45.880 maverick party does have a platform that deals in some specifics on things like the carbon tax and
00:32:52.040 and some of the pipeline bills and parliamentary ethics and all of these things but but generally
00:32:56.280 speaking i think you've summed up the party's overarching vision as being a voice for the west
00:33:01.320 and advocating for western interests with that i'm curious is this a left-right issue this idea
00:33:08.200 of standing up for the west and having a western focus in representation are you only getting votes
00:33:14.280 from the political right or is this something that cuts across traditional partisan lines well certainly
00:33:20.680 the majority of our 29 writings that we're contesting andrew we're looking to draw the majority of our
00:33:26.680 support from conservatives uh there's a reason of course why we're we chose to run in the strongest
00:33:33.240 held conservative writings it's because then it comes down to those uh western canadians having a choice
00:33:39.960 between voting for uh the status quo uh supporting in most cases their incumbent conservative member
00:33:46.600 of parliament they know exactly what they're going to get they're going to get silence from them on a
00:33:51.080 lot of issues because they run contrary to the best interests of toronto or montreal or they can vote for
00:33:58.520 a maverick candidate and get true western representation which is our core message as you suggest so that's the
00:34:06.280 big difference between maverick and the conservatives having said that we don't view ourselves as right
00:34:13.240 left or center we root uh view ourselves very much as good old-fashioned western common sense which
00:34:20.600 unfortunately is not all that common anymore so with that here i mean what's the dream scenario for
00:34:27.720 you at the end of this is it that you want to just have a a couple of maverick mps elected or is
00:34:32.920 there a particular outcome that you think is best for western interest that maverick mps could then
00:34:38.520 be advocates within well i think you've named it there is that ideally we can elect some maverick mps
00:34:45.960 we recognize that is very going to be very very difficult a party less than a year old only running in 29
00:34:52.680 ridings only recently getting organized uh short on resources both financial and human resources we don't
00:35:00.120 have the thousands of of volunteers we'd love to have to carry the message andrew uh across western
00:35:06.680 canada uh having said that we've also recognized that this is a stepping stone and it is a building
00:35:13.800 block for maverick very similar to what the reform party uh did in 1988 when myself and belle meredith
00:35:22.040 first ran for the party we stayed involved for the years in between and then of course we wiped out the
00:35:27.960 progressive conservatives in 93. does history repeat itself it could very clearly uh to move to
00:35:35.320 independence that's we support the majority of the fair deal panel recommendations uh that that panel
00:35:42.120 made to the alberta government we believe that many of those recommendations could also work in saskatchewan
00:35:47.720 and the other two western provinces we recognize that's provincial purview but we're very supportive
00:35:54.760 of moving towards greater autonomy along the same lines that quebec has achieved for itself
00:36:01.880 jay hill interim leader of the maverick party and former cabinet minister and long-time member of
00:36:08.200 parliament at the federal level jay good to talk to you thanks very much for coming on today
00:36:12.360 thank you andrew and i always appreciate being on your show
00:36:17.000 that was jay hill leader of the maverick party the interim leader it's not exactly clear who's going to
00:36:22.760 lead that party into the future jay is talking about this as though it is really the birth of a
00:36:27.800 longer-term movement when i was out west talking to people now keep in mind the maverick party didn't
00:36:33.800 have a tour to follow so when i was out there i was at ppc events but there were a few people that were
00:36:39.720 actually asking about this saying hey listen max i i like you but i want to vote maverick and and
00:36:45.080 maxime bernier says that the mavericks are are not a real party he was very very clear that that he
00:36:51.000 doesn't see them as being all that legitimate but the interesting thing is for a lot of people
00:36:57.000 they're kind of of this mindset that before anything else can happen we need to have an
00:37:03.560 independent west anything else is secondary so the idea of oh well the carbon tax or this or that no
00:37:10.040 they think that none of that is really going to happen unless they have an autonomous western not
00:37:16.040 necessarily a state but a more sovereign more autonomous province so then the question comes
00:37:23.160 down to is that more achievable at a provincial level or at a federal level because provincially
00:37:28.920 you have the wild rose independence party we've spoken to its leader paul hinman on the show in the
00:37:33.640 past they don't tend to get along with the mavericks so far as i can tell a lot of their voters
00:37:39.320 probably overlap but the actual parties have fairly different visions and this is what i've talked about
00:37:45.560 about about how a lot of the time the the alt movements the opposition movements are so fractured
00:37:50.920 that it kind of tends to undercut any chance of success so that's one of the big problems to be on
00:37:56.680 guard for in these sorts of things but the whole point of the maverick party is not to spoil they say
00:38:04.600 and they're very clear about this that they want the conservative party of canada to win and they
00:38:09.400 want a few maverick mps within that to set the agenda whereas the pbc just completely does not
00:38:15.880 want conservatives thinks aaron o'toole is no different than justin trudeau and is completely happy
00:38:20.600 it sounds like spoiling it so that justin trudeau gets in again if that is where the numbers go and
00:38:26.200 and the pbc this is why a lot of people are rubbed the wrong way by them because the pbc
00:38:32.040 thinks that they're all the same and i would say most voters even if they don't love aaron o'toole
00:38:39.320 would have a hard time saying if it's one or the other that they'd prefer justin trudeau
00:38:44.440 this is my own speculation but but even a lot of pbc voters i've spoken to they may have no love lost
00:38:49.640 for the conservatives but when push comes to shove if you say you get that you get to choose
00:38:53.880 you get four years of justin trudeau or four years of years of aaron o'toole i bet the majority would
00:38:59.000 say okay fine i'd take aaron o'toole but it's very personal for bernier and you can tell that
00:39:06.760 when he the way he talks about the conservatives the way he goes after them relentlessly whereas
00:39:10.680 the mavericks are saying yeah we realize a conservative party is going to be better for
00:39:13.960 the west we won't want to work within that but we'd have some demands and i talked about this a
00:39:19.080 little bit with tarik el nega now i had tarik on the show once before and he told me if you're ever
00:39:24.360 around the area come on out to the ranch so when i was out there doing interviews i did exactly
00:39:29.880 that now tarik el nega is one of the candidates in banff airdrie a riding about which you've heard
00:39:35.560 me speak a couple of times now we spoke to their ppc candidate nadine wellwood they've got the
00:39:41.720 conservative incumbent blake richards who again i emailed multiple times trying to ask for an
00:39:46.760 interview and did not get a single response they've got an independent derek sloan they've got a
00:39:51.880 hardcore separatist independent by the name of ron voss plus they've got the liberal ndp greens and
00:39:57.880 all that nine candidates total so it's i watched actually last night an all candidates debate hosted
00:40:04.280 by the airdrie chamber of commerce and it i mean again the opening statements lasted i think it's
00:40:09.800 like the first 30 minutes so uh it's it's quite an exciting riding if you're following it one i'm
00:40:14.200 going to be watching on election night but tarik said come on out to the ranch so i did exactly that
00:40:19.800 and he arrived on horseback which i've never had happened to any interview i've done before
00:40:24.920 where i've just been waiting and then a horse rolls up but he did that the only candidate to whom i
00:40:29.560 could say get off your high horse although i absolutely didn't it would have backfired because
00:40:34.920 at the end of the interview he made me get up on my own high horse you can see in that photo there
00:40:40.280 i had a grand old time but we said we chatted about politics it wasn't just about horse riding although
00:40:44.760 we did uh well the horses were always nearby but i wanted to talk to tarik about how the campaign's
00:40:50.680 going and also how that maverick vision fits in with what canada's going through right now this is
00:40:57.160 our conversation i know one of the criticisms of the maverick party's approach has been that if you
00:41:02.840 want to look at quebec as being the poster child for advancing a provincial agenda quebec success has
00:41:07.560 mostly come from having a strong provincial party looking out for quebec issues people have said the
00:41:12.120 bloc québécois hasn't really done that much for quebec and ottawa what's your read on that because
00:41:16.760 the maverick party is obviously seeking seats in parliament in ottawa can you advance a provincial
00:41:21.400 agenda through federal politics i think you need both uh andrew like i think what you do is you need
00:41:26.440 both you need a federal party that backs provincial requirements that need federal intervention so things
00:41:32.120 like equalization being an easy example of that so when i look at when i look at um the bloc québécois for
00:41:39.000 example eve blanchet over the last few days has been on fire and has essentially trolled the other
00:41:44.600 leaders and said hey i only care about quebec now what we want is someone that at the federal level
00:41:50.360 because we have a lot of our industries that are federally regulated so i think of oil and gas being
00:41:55.240 one especially pipeline transmissions and the second one being aviation so these are two big industries
00:42:00.200 in the riding gear i don't want ottawa managing these i'd rather they be managed in western canada
00:42:05.320 because ottawa's mismanaged or if any if anything has has worked on shutting down our industries
00:42:11.800 you mentioned the lack of a western discussion at the debates both english and french obviously the
00:42:16.520 french debate probably not going to focus as much on the west but let me ask you what are the issues
00:42:21.160 that you think are distinctly western that need to be addressed because a lot of the things that
00:42:24.680 albertans and people in the west are facing are issues that everyone in canada is facing whether
00:42:29.400 it's affordability taxes government accountability why do you think the west needs to be addressed
00:42:34.600 separately from that so there's a number of issues that are uniquely western and i'll think of our
00:42:39.720 energy sector as one so our energy sector provides the prosperity really for the rest of canada and
00:42:46.200 we look at it and we said as now we have a government that is comfortable buying foreign oil 60 million
00:42:52.760 dollars a day worth of it from places like south arabia and venezuela but but but refusing to buy or
00:42:58.680 develop our own resources this has never been a question of green energy versus oil so that's one
00:43:04.200 two when it comes to things like taxation equalization etc what we want is the government
00:43:09.480 to get out of the way so we don't want subsidies we don't want handouts the western way of life is
00:43:15.240 to earn it and the western way of life is to work hard and right now what we have is the government
00:43:20.120 in the way of aviation in the way of agriculture in the way of oil and gas and in the way of tourism
00:43:25.800 those are the four biggest industries we've got here in the writing and i'd like to see the government
00:43:30.440 get out of the way because right now if you look at i mean you go buy a plane ticket look
00:43:34.040 at what your fare is compared to all your taxes and fees right and and that that over regulation
00:43:39.320 that over taxation is what we want so our issues are pretty unique here the other thing is um we
00:43:46.120 continue to see our economy get battered even though that right now economic conditions are favorable
00:43:51.880 the price of oil is really good right but companies are reluctant to develop pipeline and to develop rigs
00:43:58.280 when the government's in the way and they're saying well what will the permitting process look like
00:44:02.520 right for a lot of federal politicians especially and arguably provincial politicians elsewhere
00:44:08.920 oil and gas pipelines are very abstract ideological issues you have ndp politicians that are very anti
00:44:15.880 oil and pipelines you've got quebecers that oftentimes even a conservative government in quebec
00:44:21.000 that's very much against pipelines against canadian oil and oil and gas sector here it's not
00:44:26.600 ideologically it's the livelihood of a lot of people it's the lifeblood of the province
00:44:31.880 even the politicians that talk about transitioning and getting people new jobs who are displaced because
00:44:37.000 of anti-oil policies does any of that actually materialize to something that on the ground people
00:44:42.680 in the oil and gas sector in the west think that they would actually get it it doesn't that's a great
00:44:47.240 question it doesn't i mean i ask go around ask where are all the green jobs around here and you know
00:44:53.160 transition isn't a bad thing but i look at and i say nobody regulated the vhs out of existence
00:44:58.920 something better came along right and something better quicker faster what we're doing is we're
00:45:02.920 taxing the life out of our industry in favor of buying a foreign oil um so here yeah it isn't an
00:45:09.640 ideological thing it is what what what pays for mortgages it is what puts food on the table and it is
00:45:15.640 also what drives all of the services around the economy so people think it's just oil and gas but it drives
00:45:21.160 hotels it drives restaurants it drives transport transportation it drives a whole bunch of other
00:45:26.440 industries it's a key economic driver and to think that oil consumption in the world and oil demand
00:45:32.120 right now is going up but we're intent on shutting down very ethical very responsible very human rights
00:45:38.600 forward industry here in the west uh blows my mind and i think also the carbon tax is a big one
00:45:45.480 so it doesn't just affect oil and gas but affects everything it's a tax on everything
00:45:49.160 and i look at to your point um the conservatives even out east have somehow can convince themselves
00:45:55.320 that a tax is going to save the planet um i think it's incredibly naive to think that you know that's
00:46:00.680 going to save a planet and you're going to punish canadians for heating their homes or driving their
00:46:05.320 vehicles when you don't have a choice it's not a discretionary choice here whether you can or can't
00:46:09.960 heat your home we had a mini controversy earlier on in the election about the politics of pickup
00:46:15.880 trucks i think you and i talked about this in our previous interview one of the first things you
00:46:19.400 did when you moved here was buy a pickup truck these sorts of things are kind of amusing when
00:46:23.960 you've got you know people on the left and people in the media saying no one should be able to have
00:46:27.400 pickup trucks but they do reveal i think a very genuine disconnect between the western way of life
00:46:34.040 and the rest of canada and i'm curious if you think that divide can be bridged right you know
00:46:40.280 this is the beauty it's a great question this is the beauty of why i'm running for the maverick
00:46:44.680 party is we don't have a divide to bridge we only look out for the west um we have tried relying on
00:46:52.520 the conservative party this is the base of the conservative party and we've tried relying on the
00:46:56.200 conservative party to really relay our way of life our industries um you know the way we live and
00:47:02.680 and and it we found not only have they failed at that but they've also um not really stood up in
00:47:09.400 defending us so yes people out in the cities in the east think that you know we drive pickup trucks
00:47:15.960 because we're bold and bad and all that well how am i going to move these guys you know and and and i
00:47:21.320 need a pickup truck as a tool for my way of life and work and all of that so i look at and i say it
00:47:28.600 isn't feasible for me to be driving around a prius or a tesla for for my way of life now here's here's
00:47:35.240 the difference between us and and the conservative parties the conservative parties try to is now
00:47:39.640 trying to appease a voter in toronto and quebec that they've completely forgotten about their base
00:47:44.840 the base that lives like this and the base that lives in saskatchewan and alberta and the prairies
00:47:49.480 in bc and and we've said you know what we have to look after our own now um and if the divide wants
00:47:56.520 to exist and i'll give you another example of that andrew if if toronto want to ban all their guns
00:48:00.520 we're we're never gonna we're not gonna argue with it anymore but what we want is a regional
00:48:05.400 firearms officer that that you know builds our own firearms laws because we need them it's a tool of
00:48:11.240 our trade uh whether we're ranchers sport shooters hunters etc um it's part of the lifestyle that we
00:48:17.400 live here so i look at and i say the divide exists um we've for as long as i've known we've tried
00:48:23.640 educating eastern canada on how ethical and cleaner oil is how and how human rights forward it is we've tried
00:48:30.040 telling them about our lifestyle and it just seems like it doesn't work so i'll say you know what if
00:48:34.520 the divide exists let it exist and let's focus on the west so at the risk of putting words in your
00:48:41.400 mouth you're not interested in winning over zoe in downtown toronto or jean pierre in montreal you
00:48:46.520 just want to be left alone exactly and we want the governments out of the way andrew and and the thing
00:48:51.800 is um that's the beauty of our party is we don't have a single voter to appease or pander to in quebec
00:48:58.760 and ontario just like aaron o'toole is because you know you look at the it's simple numbers 231
00:49:04.360 seats are east of manitoba and 107 of them are manitoba west so that you're always going to have
00:49:11.000 the government being set depending on what eastern canada votes and forget you know you always hear it
00:49:16.200 by the time we vote in alberta well by the time we vote in manitoba the government's typically decided
00:49:21.160 um so relying on eastern canada to vote one way or another isn't a winning strategy we need to start
00:49:26.760 voting now on western issues and saying we want a western voice so i put out a tweet this morning
00:49:33.480 like can you imagine if if the west had a blanchette type in in the debates that said western canada
00:49:39.960 western canada western canada all the time um right now we don't and i'd like to see that that i mean
00:49:45.640 i hate saying it but i'd like to see someone speak exclusively for western canada and start to push
00:49:51.240 forward and this is what we're trying to do is we're trying to push forward constitutional amendments
00:49:56.280 that bring fairness and equity back to western canada so i guess on that note let's say mavericks
00:50:01.560 do elect two or three members of parliament on september 20th how much power can they really
00:50:06.600 have if they are dominated by as you've as you've mentioned there an eastern house of commons right so
00:50:13.880 i'll give you examples of power so um we're running 30 candidates and uh just before the election was
00:50:19.800 called if i'm not mistaken the bloc quebecois have 31 32 candidates in the house that's equal and
00:50:26.520 that's just our first start here as we continue to grow that movement 107 ridings in western canada
00:50:34.120 quebec has 78 seats so think about that in terms of a voting bloc over time as we grow and i'll give
00:50:40.120 you the easiest example the green party has what two seats now or three two two or three seats um look at
00:50:45.400 the amount of voice press ink that they get um for two or three seats or i'll use the easiest example
00:50:52.680 jody wilson raybolt pushing bill c96 back into debate as one independent mp look at the power she had
00:51:02.280 in the house to bring attention to that issue so it is it is possible and you know i'd love to see all 30
00:51:09.400 candidates all 30 maverick candidates um go to ottawa because it would be the absolute best thing for the
00:51:15.160 west now there is an issue in people's minds here in the west of uh do we split the vote etc despite
00:51:21.560 the fact that they're very disappointed with erin o'toole representing no western issues flip-flopping
00:51:26.520 on gun control flip-flopping on the carbon tax um continuing to appease quebec for for everything
00:51:32.760 that it wants is the best outcome for western canada for this immediate election here in just over 10 days
00:51:39.080 is to see a erin o'toole government um got over that gets supported by a maverick party will never
00:51:48.280 form a formal coalition but you say if you want our support then these are a list of demands including
00:51:53.160 things like scrapping the carbon tax and building an energy corridor so how powerful would it be if
00:51:59.000 it's the mavericks that get erin o'toole over the finish line and say you want our support this is what
00:52:04.520 we want perfect thank you thanks andrew that was maverick candidate in bamf airjury tarik l nega
00:52:12.360 joining me or actually i was joining him i guess but in any case that was our conversation from a few
00:52:17.640 days back as i said this is not an endorsement i'm not telling you to vote maverick conservative ppc
00:52:23.880 liberal ndp green communist marxist leninist and don't you dare mix those up the communists and the
00:52:29.160 marxist leninist don't exactly get along for reasons that it would actually be quite fun to explore
00:52:33.800 maybe i should do like the old lincoln douglas debate but with just a communist on one side
00:52:38.440 and a marxist leninist on the other side in any case i'm just putting this out there because i want
00:52:44.280 you to know what the themes are on the ground and also i want you to know with these movements
00:52:50.360 it's easy for people in ontario quebec even bc to say yeah you know it's conservative or bust which for
00:52:56.520 the most part it is in a lot of these ridings but if something strange happens on election night
00:53:03.720 i would not be surprised to see it happening in alberta you just have too many different parts
00:53:09.560 of the coalition too many moving pieces here to ignore that it's certainly going to be worth paying
00:53:15.160 attention to i'm going to be and with that i want to plug true north is going to be doing an election
00:53:20.200 night show we'll have the details in the coming days and i know my colleague candace malcolm who's
00:53:25.240 been doing more of the news of the day updates for you on her daily show will have some details
00:53:30.680 about that and i should tell you one of the reasons that i enjoy being able to delve into
00:53:34.680 some of these lesser covered stories is because i know that the true north team is getting all the
00:53:40.280 the top line big headlines out through canada's show and on our website tnc.news so gives me the
00:53:46.600 freedom to have a little bit of fun with this i want to thank all of you for tuning in whether
00:53:51.240 you're from the west or not i hope you learned something from this episode we will talk to you soon
00:53:56.200 with more of canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show on true north thank
00:54:01.160 you god bless and good day thanks for listening to the andrew lawton show support the program by
00:54:06.360 donating to true north at www.tnc.news