Juno News - November 28, 2024


What is happening in Nayib Bukele's El Salvador？

Topics
Chinese investment in El Salvador drug trafficking pathway drug migration responsibility
Mentioned
Nayib Bukele Herb Esmahan Donald Trump Bitcoin Harrison Faulkner Cesar Adario Frank Gale Will Donahue Matt Gaetz Latinos MS-13
THESE Canadian politicians get it RIGHT on Trump and border security This is all Trudeau’s fault

Episode Stats


Length

21 minutes

Words per minute

171.41

Word count

3,746

Sentence count

239

Harmful content

Hate speech

8

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

El Salvador was once one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and now it is allegedly one the safest in the Western Hemisphere. Through an iron fist approach to combating crime and gangs, El Salvador has drastically reduced its violent crime rate, allegedly making it a place that is safer than Canada.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 All right. Well, behind me is El Salvador's National Plaza. We're standing here on the grounds of the National Library, a building that was fully paid for by the Chinese government, a gift of the Chinese government to the people of El Salvador.
00:00:27.160 And the building, I have to say, stands out quite a lot compared to the architecture that surrounds us here. And it is beautiful architecture, this beautiful cathedral here. This is the National Palace where the El Salvador government used to be seated.
00:00:42.020 And we're here for the Patriots Network America launch that took place in El Salvador. We were able to listen to many different Central American politicians, El Salvador politicians, people who are experts in this region, discussing the transformation that has taken place here.
00:00:59.420 And the transformation has been incredible to see. Through an iron fist approach to combating crime and gangs, El Salvador has drastically reduced its violent crime rate, allegedly making it one of the safest countries in the Western Hemisphere.
00:01:14.640 Safer than Canada, if you can believe it. But it's amazing what happens when you actually lock criminals up and put them in prison. This country has entered a policy of mass incarceration.
00:01:27.020 79,000 arrests from alleged gang members have taken place in this country, garnering worldwide attention, and not the best attention as well. Some critics of El Salvador view this country as a dictatorship.
00:01:41.300 Some say that the suspended civil liberties of El Salvadorians has crossed a line. In fact, for several years, the people in El Salvador have been living under a state of exception, a state of emergency with suspended constitutional rights.
00:01:54.100 So the question does become, at what cost does solving this crime situation really come to? Is it worth it? And I think for many people, it likely is. Because in El Salvador, the gangs were not just what gangs you might think of as they are in Canada.
00:02:10.340 These gangs were MS-13, some of the worst gangs in the world. El Salvador was one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and now it is allegedly one of the safest.
00:02:18.520 But that's not the only thing that makes El Salvador, this small Central American country, so interesting.
00:02:23.700 Another factor that makes this country interesting is its decision to embrace Bitcoin as legal tender. In fact, not just as legal tender, but as the legal currency along to the U.S. dollar.
00:02:33.960 The first country to do so. The young, charismatic leader, Nayib Bukele, has brought about these advanced changes, these new, fresh ideas of the country.
00:02:42.120 Not always in a way that protects civil liberties, but certainly in a way that has put this small country on the map.
00:02:49.380 We've been able to speak with leaders, politicians, political activists here in El Salvador to ask them what they make of what's going on here and what's going on in their country.
00:02:58.980 Here is what they have had to say.
00:03:00.680 All right, well, we are here with Philip de Winter, former member of European Parliament and the vice president of the Flemish Assembly of Belgium.
00:03:06.500 Yes.
00:03:06.660 What brings you from Belgium to El Salvador?
00:03:09.300 Well, El Salvador is a model for us. It's an example.
00:03:12.760 We have a lot of problems with drug mafia in Europe, certainly in my country, in Antwerp.
00:03:18.280 Antwerp is the second biggest harbor of Europe.
00:03:21.600 And we import almost, when it comes to seized cocaine and seized drugs, more than 110 tons a year.
00:03:32.560 If you know that the total amount of cocaine seized in Europe is 320 tons, you understand that we have a big problem.
00:03:41.060 One third of the total amount of drugs and cocaine is seized in Antwerp, in the port of Antwerp.
00:03:47.600 So, we have a drug mafia war on our hands.
00:03:50.820 And that means that there are terrorist attacks, car bombing, shootouts, grenade attacks, that sort of things.
00:03:58.900 So, we can learn from El Salvador.
00:04:03.040 El Salvador is a country where they were able to win the war on drugs and win the war against the gangs, against the drug mafia.
00:04:10.120 They really, well, they engaged the army, they did everything that was possible to win this war on drugs.
00:04:19.840 And therefore, I came over because I think what happened in El Salvador during the last four or five years,
00:04:26.220 under the presidency of President Bukele, and I met the Minister of Justice, Vila Tore, this morning,
00:04:37.060 can be also an example and a model for us in Europe.
00:04:41.460 All right, well, we are here with Cesar Adario, the Vice President of the Latin American operation of Exor Financial.
00:04:47.960 Tell us what it is about El Salvador that is making this country a place that your company wants to invest in and do business in.
00:04:56.620 Well, El Salvador is, you know, to discover country.
00:05:01.000 You know, it's a new player in the war.
00:05:03.500 The President put the country in the spotlight around the world and also in Latin America.
00:05:09.600 And we think this is an interesting place to put our money, to grow up for our investors, the utility and profits.
00:05:20.800 El Salvador is a really good place.
00:05:23.220 You know, it's a country who start, you know, to insert in the war class made countries. 0.96
00:05:32.040 And that's why we are here.
00:05:33.580 And it's no secret that many countries in Central America are receiving a lot of investment from China, for example.
00:05:39.600 That is quite obvious.
00:05:41.960 What does that mean in the long term for Central American countries?
00:05:45.980 We know that this building in particular was actually developed with Chinese money.
00:05:50.360 Is this something that your company and the work that you do,
00:05:53.200 do you see this as a positive thing for El Salvador and other Central American countries?
00:05:57.500 Or do you see it as potentially having negative long-term implications?
00:06:02.100 Yeah.
00:06:03.420 China is one player more. 0.97
00:06:05.240 You know, if you have money from China, it's the same if you have money for other countries.
00:06:10.220 The important thing is what do you do with this money?
00:06:13.600 I believe China is a good partner.
00:06:16.880 You know, it's a big economy, the second largest economy in the world.
00:06:21.160 That's why all the countries, not only the Central America, South American countries need to start a relationship with China.
00:06:31.020 I'm a support of this kind of trade with China.
00:06:36.860 You know, not only this building, you know, you have the water company and other things are so important for the country.
00:06:44.840 But, you know, like every relationship with the country, you know, you need to care and you need to be smart to have advantage, good advantage, to try to start growth with the trade.
00:06:59.780 All right.
00:06:59.940 So we are here with Herbert Esmehan, a political analyst here in El Salvador, someone who knows quite a lot about what's going on.
00:07:06.380 Let me first ask you, what can the world learn from El Salvador's approach to gangs and crime? 1.00
00:07:12.400 Because the results speak for themselves.
00:07:14.020 I believe El Salvador has become a beacon of hope for the rest of the world.
00:07:18.940 It has shown a message to all of the nations that no matter how far gone your country is, there is always a way back as long as you have the willpower and the faith in God to make it happen.
00:07:31.340 President Bukele many times has mentioned during his inauguration speech and other speeches that God is a key element in being able to move your country forward.
00:07:40.860 How do people in El Salvador respond to the attacks from leftist media, from international organizations who say that this country is a dictatorship, that the people through this approach no longer have their rights?
00:07:55.420 What is the response from the government and what is the response from supporters?
00:07:59.380 Well, the government's quite neutral, you know, the government's just focused on the well-being of the Salvadoran people, no matter what anyone says.
00:08:07.760 And when it comes to the people, well, we laugh at them because El Salvador is better than it has ever been. 1.00
00:08:13.400 El Salvador used to be a nation that was corrupted and full of crime. 0.99
00:08:18.220 People cannot have the normal everyday lives that most of us get to enjoy.
00:08:23.680 People, parents couldn't send their kids to school.
00:08:26.460 They couldn't open a business.
00:08:28.000 They couldn't live a normal life because they would be extorted, possibly murdered, etc.
00:08:32.920 So now that President Bukele, through sheer passion and love for his nation, has been able to restore this country, restore stability, many globalist international organizations, they only seek one thing, to destabilize nations because they become easy prey if they're destabilized.
00:08:53.800 What does the long-term public safety approach look like?
00:08:59.580 We've heard a lot about the short-term approach, the mass arrests, the iron fist approach to dealing with crime.
00:09:07.000 But long-term, how do you prevent crime from coming back in the future?
00:09:11.600 You give opportunities to your citizens, and that is something that President Nayib Bukele's government is doing effectively.
00:09:16.940 El Salvador used to be a country with no opportunity, which is why many of our citizens used to immigrate to other nations.
00:09:25.200 Now we're having a reverse effect.
00:09:27.220 Salvadorans are coming back to their roots to establish businesses and start new lives in El Salvador because we have given them hope and opportunity, which is something essential.
00:09:37.580 And it comes down to common sense.
00:09:39.680 If you have a stable nation, why would your citizens want to leave in the first place?
00:09:43.380 With the Donald Trump administration coming back with a mandate to deport people who have committed crimes and have entered the U.S. illegally, what is the El Salvador government's position?
00:09:56.300 Are they going to accept people who have been deported back?
00:09:59.260 I guess they might have to, but what does that look like?
00:10:01.900 Has the government started to plan what that looks like with people being forced to come back to El Salvador?
00:10:07.420 Well, as a simple political analyst, I wouldn't be able to tell you what the government is thinking.
00:10:11.320 However, I can tell you that I'm sure that there's going to be great cooperation between the two governments because El Salvador and the United States have been allies for decades now.
00:10:23.280 And they always have been and will be our greatest ally in El Salvador.
00:10:26.720 I am sure we'll be willing to work with whatever we need to do to make things right for both countries.
00:10:31.920 The last question you have for you, Herbert, is about Chinese investment in this country.
00:10:35.660 We've seen Chinese investment.
00:10:37.720 We know that China is investing in Central American countries as well.
00:10:42.120 What is the El Salvadoran government's position on this?
00:10:47.500 I imagine that they would like to receive more investment from the United States if possible.
00:10:52.340 But does the Chinese investment come with strings attached?
00:10:56.620 I believe the best way to answer your question is to quote President Bukele directly.
00:11:01.640 In many of his speeches when things have been inaugurated, things funded by or donated by the Chinese government,
00:11:08.840 he has been very clear and he has said that this is an act of friendship.
00:11:12.720 And whoever wants to help build can help build.
00:11:14.960 But no strings are attached and no strings will be attached.
00:11:17.660 We're here with Frank Galley, the vice chair of the International Young Democratic Union.
00:11:24.620 And as well, you are the international secretary of the National Party in Honduras.
00:11:30.960 We were speaking yesterday about the situation involving drugs and drug trafficking.
00:11:36.360 You believe that part of the issue is about what the United States is doing.
00:11:42.100 And Honduras is a country that traffickers come through.
00:11:45.540 What is it that Honduras is asking from the rest of the world, particularly from the United States and Canada,
00:11:52.160 to help them solve the drug trafficking issue?
00:11:54.740 Well, it's very easy.
00:11:55.480 And thank you for having me on your show.
00:11:57.460 I know it's very watched by our friends in Canada.
00:12:00.160 First of all, they produce it in the south.
00:12:02.860 They consume it in the north, specifically the United States.
00:12:06.700 And we are just a pathway.
00:12:08.720 Central America is just a pathway. 1.00
00:12:10.060 And the drug problem, the organized crime problem, generates displacement.
00:12:14.300 That means migration.
00:12:16.360 And the larger means, illegal migration.
00:12:19.980 But we're just a consequence of a problem that we did not create.
00:12:23.940 Each year, the United States consumes more drugs than ever before.
00:12:28.620 It doesn't go down, the statistic.
00:12:30.000 It just goes up.
00:12:31.460 And in the south, obviously, they produce it.
00:12:33.400 Supply and demand.
00:12:34.580 And we're just this pathway of blood.
00:12:36.440 And for the United States, it's a health issue.
00:12:39.780 For South America, it may be a security issue, but it's also an economic issue.
00:12:43.400 But for us, it's mainly, as not consumers or producers, it's mainly a violent problem.
00:12:48.960 So we need to be creative about this.
00:12:50.780 We need to learn that the United States can have a tough stance on illegal immigration, in which I am in favor. 1.00
00:12:56.420 Everybody wants their counterparts to be in our countries.
00:13:00.240 And that is perfectly.
00:13:01.320 And we can work with any administration to do that.
00:13:04.360 But about this problem, specifically on drugs and specifically on organized crime, we need to be more creative.
00:13:10.760 Because definitely the solutions that have been in place have not been working.
00:13:15.840 And we need to do it.
00:13:16.980 And I think with the Trump administration, we can work a lot with that.
00:13:19.660 And maybe in Canada, that also has this type of problem with a new conservative government or people that are aligned with our values, I think we can do some amazing things.
00:13:29.380 I think a lot of people in Canada, I can't speak for Americans, but I think a lot of people in Canada look at Central American countries that are experiencing this drug trafficking pathway.
00:13:38.220 And they say to themselves, well, what are they doing to stop these people from coming into our country?
00:13:43.880 Don't they have to take some responsibility?
00:13:46.200 What do you say to that?
00:13:47.980 A hundred percent.
00:13:48.960 I mean, I think it's government which is left or right, but mostly the right, you know, less-wing government.
00:13:55.080 We have found that sometimes they promote migration, which is horrible.
00:13:59.600 But right-wing governments in Central America are very, we're not people that want to be displaced.
00:14:03.860 We're very family-oriented countries.
00:14:05.680 If you see migration in Canada or the United States, for example, you see that Latinos are mostly conservative people.
00:14:12.120 They believe in family values.
00:14:13.460 They believe in Christian values.
00:14:14.560 They believe in Western values and in community.
00:14:18.040 We believe a lot of that.
00:14:19.100 And so we don't want to leave our countries.
00:14:20.700 People don't really want to leave our country.
00:14:22.240 But yeah, we have to do our own work in governments or in opposition parties and private enterprise to people have more money, have more income, have better jobs, lower the cost of living.
00:14:32.840 But the problem, specifically with the drug type of migration, because of illegal activities and that people get displaced, I think that there is a shared common responsibility.
00:14:45.280 Because it's not only our problem that our people are leaving because of drugs, it's because the United States or other countries want so much drug, and we're just in the way, and people are being murdered, kidnapped, or displaced by this problem that we did not create and we did not incentivize.
00:15:03.240 So yeah, I think we have a responsibility.
00:15:05.840 But the other countries cannot just say, oh, stop migration.
00:15:08.320 Right.
00:15:08.420 Yeah, if it's because of jobs, if it's because of income, of course.
00:15:12.180 But if it's because of drugs, I think we have something to do a lot in common.
00:15:15.320 As a neighboring country to El Salvador, the question I have for you is, what do Honduran people think of El Salvador and the transformation we are seeing in this country due to these policies of being tough on crime, tough on gangs?
00:15:27.660 Do people look at El Salvador as a model for how they want your country to be run?
00:15:32.420 I can answer you these in two ways.
00:15:34.760 First, as a citizen, and then as a person that has been in government and has seen the inside of stuff.
00:15:40.900 As a citizen, of course, everybody wants to admire what has been done here in El Salvador in terms of security.
00:15:46.420 Also, watch that not innocent people get on that, the way of maybe countering terrorism and this type of crimes.
00:15:54.080 But I can also tell you from a standpoint of I have been in government in other countries, it's not the same.
00:16:00.000 You cannot compare one security problem issue or violent issue in El Salvador with Honduras, for example.
00:16:06.120 There's two different worlds.
00:16:07.760 You can count in narcotics, geographic placement.
00:16:10.600 It's very different.
00:16:11.640 But, yes, from a general standpoint, of course, we want to be tough on crime.
00:16:16.980 And I think people in El Salvador are appreciating that.
00:16:19.640 And I think, yeah, we can maybe get some insights or examples of what they've done here.
00:16:24.100 But each country has its own individual problems and how to deal with them.
00:16:27.260 All right.
00:16:27.580 Well, we are here with Will Donahue, the president of College Republicans of America.
00:16:32.640 What brings you out to El Salvador?
00:16:35.180 Happy to support my friends in the Patriots Network.
00:16:37.780 College Republicans of America is now the largest Republican youth organization in the country.
00:16:43.680 And I think it's imperative that we're not only working on serving our students domestically,
00:16:48.340 but we're reaching out to our international partners and forming alliances.
00:16:51.880 The left has done a really great job of creating international coalitions and pushing a globalist narrative.
00:16:57.860 And for decades, the conservative movement has been lacking in that.
00:17:01.240 And so as the leader of our youth Republican movement, I think it's my duty to also start working on the international stage
00:17:08.500 to form these alliances and relationships so that in the future we're able to have a harmonious world
00:17:14.220 where people don't have to look at the United States as a force of terror but as a force for good.
00:17:19.400 I've recently heard that the, well, he's no longer the incoming Attorney General,
00:17:26.140 but when Matt Gaetz was originally nominated, it was reported that he wanted to implement
00:17:30.920 an El Salvadorian-style approach to law and order in the United States.
00:17:34.820 I imagine that that idea will likely come back up with the incoming Trump administration.
00:17:39.880 What do you think the United States should learn from El Salvador in their approach so far to crime 0.99
00:17:44.540 and in their approach to economic rejuvenation?
00:17:48.800 As a Californian, I have been able to see firsthand what lax criminal enforcement does to a state and to a country.
00:17:57.100 The United States, I think, is doing a really poor job right now enforcing its laws,
00:18:00.820 both at the border and in the inner cities.
00:18:03.780 Drug crime is up, murder's up, violence is up.
00:18:06.120 You know, El Salvador is a test case for what strong conservative justice does for a nation.
00:18:14.780 El Salvador went from a country where Americans were terrified to travel to
00:18:18.660 to the safest country in the Western Hemisphere.
00:18:21.280 I think America has a lot to learn from El Salvador in terms of criminal enforcement.
00:18:25.240 And I hope that this incoming Attorney General, whoever they may be,
00:18:29.740 we've already lost one, we may lose another one, who knows,
00:18:31.940 we'll make the decision to start enforcing our laws.
00:18:36.480 Maybe not to the extent that El Salvador is doing it right now,
00:18:38.940 but something like it so that we clean up our streets and, you know,
00:18:41.900 women feel safe to walk at night and, you know,
00:18:44.600 people in general, you know, feel safer in their communities.
00:18:47.120 We don't have that right now.
00:18:48.100 If you've been paying attention to conservative politics,
00:18:50.900 you have come across stories about this small but very interesting country.
00:18:55.140 People are curious about it. They talk about it.
00:18:57.480 And the perception in the West is that El Salvador is this country that is embracing
00:19:02.960 and going through radical changes and everything is safe and very nice.
00:19:08.180 The reality is, however, when you step outside of the tourist areas
00:19:11.360 and you enter the rest of the city,
00:19:13.780 what you're left with is the remnants of a country and a city
00:19:17.500 that is very much still in the wake of brutal crime
00:19:21.880 and very, very dangerous cities and very dangerous times,
00:19:27.340 you know, the infrastructure in this city has a long way to go.
00:19:30.580 If you step outside of this national plaza area,
00:19:32.880 you realize that, yes, there are people in this country
00:19:34.920 and in this city that are struggling with bad poverty.
00:19:38.620 The infrastructure is not exactly where it needs to be
00:19:41.840 for a country that wants to be seen as an emerging player on the world stage
00:19:46.460 like El Salvador does.
00:19:47.480 You can clean up your streets, you can clean up crime and gangs,
00:19:51.820 but you're really not dealing with some of these other major issues,
00:19:56.300 most notably infrastructure, quality of life.
00:19:59.620 And like I said in the intro,
00:20:02.060 what about the civil liberties of El Salvadorians,
00:20:05.440 of people who have not committed any crimes,
00:20:07.760 who are not associated with the gangs?
00:20:09.720 When do they get their rights back?
00:20:11.900 When does the state of emergency in this country end?
00:20:15.480 That is a question that I think will need to be addressed
00:20:18.280 and need to be answered by government leaders in this country,
00:20:21.380 by Nayib Bukele.
00:20:23.200 We want to know what is the long-term approach
00:20:25.680 to solving crime and gangs in this country.
00:20:29.100 Because surely the approach right now
00:20:30.860 cannot be the approach that this country takes forever.
00:20:34.320 There needs to be a switch.
00:20:35.500 There needs to be a change.
00:20:37.180 Is it economic rejuvenation?
00:20:38.940 Is Bitcoin going to bring El Salvador into a new stratosphere?
00:20:45.100 Is it going to change the economy?
00:20:47.440 Or is it a political opportunity?
00:20:50.820 And does it sound good on paper,
00:20:52.140 but is it really not that effective in principle?
00:20:56.580 You know, it's important to see past the propaganda,
00:20:59.260 see past what they want you to see,
00:21:01.180 and realize that this country is still very much
00:21:03.680 dealing with the issues that it has been dealing with
00:21:07.720 for a long time.
00:21:08.980 Things aren't going to change overnight,
00:21:10.480 and it's going to take a very long time for this country
00:21:12.280 to fully change from where it is right now.
00:21:16.540 Signing out from San Salvador, El Salvador,
00:21:19.980 Harrison Faulkner for TrueNorth.
00:21:21.240 We'll see you next time.