Juno News - March 24, 2019


What's next for #Lavscam？


Episode Stats

Length

9 minutes

Words per Minute

202.05618

Word Count

1,985

Sentence Count

127


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hey everyone, Anthony Fury and Andrew Lawton right here at the Manning Networking Conference
00:00:09.400 2019 in our nation's capital.
00:00:12.340 Hello, sir.
00:00:12.960 Hello.
00:00:13.620 Been an interesting conference so far.
00:00:14.980 You're speaking.
00:00:15.820 You're going to be moderating, hosting a couple different discussions.
00:00:19.240 So lots of public policy issues right front and center.
00:00:21.960 But the big one, the big kind of issue that everyone's talking about, well, not just here,
00:00:26.100 but in any, you know, Timmy's coast to coast, lav scam.
00:00:29.220 What happens next?
00:00:30.780 Where we're at?
00:00:31.560 I feel like we're at this kind of holding pattern, treading water period where it's like it could
00:00:37.260 fizzle away or like the RCMP could say we're charging, you know, multiple people from the
00:00:42.660 PMO with obstruction of justice charges.
00:00:44.600 Where, depending on how you look at it, are we at on this?
00:00:47.500 No, I think those are valid issues.
00:00:49.240 And we have a few different ways that the story could get renewed, if you will, because there's
00:00:54.060 always a natural lifespan.
00:00:55.120 And one of which is if Jody Wilson-Raybould or Jane Philpott says a bit more, that tends
00:00:59.600 to buy an extra few days.
00:01:01.800 Another big one is if the ethics commissioner makes a finding, although there's some weird
00:01:06.340 stuff going on there with the ethics commissioner taking a leave, but the office saying the
00:01:10.260 investigation's continuing.
00:01:11.920 But they can't write a report.
00:01:13.160 That's the thing.
00:01:14.000 Yeah.
00:01:14.120 They can continue doing what he's delegated them to do.
00:01:16.840 But any sort of fines or findings or issuing statements, he's got to do it.
00:01:22.380 Yeah.
00:01:22.560 And so I don't understand.
00:01:23.980 I mean, that's a separate issue, but I don't understand how we don't have contingencies
00:01:26.720 there when, you know, the ethics commissioner is on a leave for whatever reason to continue
00:01:30.740 with ethics investigations and completion of those.
00:01:34.060 Or appoint an interim.
00:01:34.840 Yeah, appoint an interim or have a deputy, whatever it is.
00:01:37.680 So theoretically, if there was a report finding Justin Trudeau violated ethics rules, again,
00:01:42.500 that could reinvigorate the story a bit.
00:01:45.260 But no, I think it is a valid concern.
00:01:47.160 And if you're the Conservatives and you're wanting to say, this guy's corrupt, we're not,
00:01:52.240 you've got to keep people interested in this story.
00:01:54.840 And we've seen time and time again where very significant stories fizzle away.
00:01:58.600 And let's look at the Bahamas vacation.
00:01:59.940 Does anyone remember when the Bahamas vacation was like the big Justin Trudeau scandal?
00:02:03.780 And I'd be surprised if that issue represents one percentage of the vote in the election.
00:02:10.160 So I think it's important.
00:02:11.640 I don't think that the actual substance of whether the law or at the very least the moral
00:02:16.840 contract that politicians have was broken, I don't think that should take a backseat
00:02:21.020 to political partisanship.
00:02:23.340 I think that political partisanship, if it is going to exist on this issue, which it does,
00:02:28.640 needs to be keeping in mind that this is a significant breach of trust concern that's
00:02:33.660 been alleged here.
00:02:34.720 But again, you have to keep people interested in that story.
00:02:37.840 One of the things, and I hate the sort of conspiracy theory stuff, that's not the right
00:02:42.420 term, but people sort of surmising, well, why isn't the RCP doing much or saying much?
00:02:47.180 And of course, they don't release press statements on ongoing investigations.
00:02:50.380 But on that note, I was rereading a column that we ran in the Sun Papers by Senator Colin
00:02:56.360 Kenney, he's now retired from the Senate, a liberal senator, and he was chairman of
00:03:00.380 the, I guess, the National Security Committee.
00:03:02.480 And he wrote a column saying, when they were hiring a new RCMP commissioner, saying, watch
00:03:06.540 out, one of the big ticket items is politicization of the RCMP, particularly when it comes to Ottawa
00:03:13.740 bubble issues.
00:03:14.580 And he brought up a number of issues, you know, why they issue certain charges, why they
00:03:18.180 don't.
00:03:18.380 And this is someone who for decades has been following this file.
00:03:21.300 And I thought, it's very interesting that we had warnings like that for a while about
00:03:25.060 the RCMP.
00:03:25.960 And again, I have no sort of basis to say I think they are holding back on lab scam.
00:03:32.060 I don't, we just don't know right now.
00:03:33.820 But there have been concerns.
00:03:35.340 What do you think about that?
00:03:36.620 No, I think that's true.
00:03:37.720 And one point that I would raise with this is that the RCMP has, generally speaking, had
00:03:44.080 some institutional issues just that any bureaucratic body would.
00:03:48.340 And one significant one is access to information.
00:03:50.660 I mean, they're abysmal when it comes to being transparent to the public, by extension
00:03:54.340 to the media, the politicians and all of that.
00:03:57.220 I think that their, their general rule of not commenting on ongoing investigations is
00:04:02.060 a good one.
00:04:02.880 I do think they could probably as a body be a little bit more forthright about when they
00:04:07.540 are investigating, because that's the issue.
00:04:09.500 If they won't even comment as to whether or not there is an investigation, we're not talking
00:04:14.300 about a body that people can have trust in, even if it's worthy of that trust and deserving
00:04:18.320 of it, because they, it's like Schrodinger's investigation.
00:04:21.500 I mean, it's either, you know, they're in the midst of a corruption investigation or they've
00:04:26.300 dismissed it without cause and, you know, never the twain shall meet.
00:04:29.520 And I do think that there's an opportunity for policing to be more forthright about these
00:04:34.860 things that doesn't compromise their need to protect the integrity of their investigations.
00:04:40.560 Right.
00:04:41.120 No, no, that's a very good point.
00:04:42.420 I mean, I feel like where we're at now with Labscan, because there are so many detailed
00:04:45.400 questions.
00:04:45.980 They're just, there just needs to be a trial.
00:04:49.860 There needs to be someone who is not Anne McClellan and who is not Justin Trudeau or Anthony
00:04:54.400 Howe's father committee chair to weigh in and just say to everybody, all right, these are
00:04:58.380 the facts, something criminal happened, something criminal didn't happen.
00:05:02.040 So we can't just have this festering.
00:05:04.340 You know, I was, I was on CBC a couple of weeks ago and the panel, there was academic who
00:05:08.840 had legal expertise and there were two lawyers who were also on it and everyone was talking
00:05:12.280 about these legal details and so forth.
00:05:14.060 And I thought, I feel like we're doing a trial here.
00:05:16.580 Like we're, I feel like we're doing a dress rehearsal for a criminal trial.
00:05:20.060 You've had all these former prosecutors, former judges weigh in and I go, it's like
00:05:24.380 we've already convened a trial here.
00:05:26.040 So just get on with the real thing.
00:05:28.100 Because the Mike Duffy thing, I mean, there was a catharsis to it.
00:05:31.000 He was charged and then, you know, if he was guilty of them, he would have been found
00:05:34.800 guilty.
00:05:35.440 He was found innocent.
00:05:36.460 He walked.
00:05:36.900 So, so there you go, folks.
00:05:38.080 It's all wrapped up.
00:05:38.840 And I'm not calling for a show trial or a politically expedient trial, but that's where we're at
00:05:43.460 right now.
00:05:44.180 Yeah.
00:05:44.380 And the justice committee could have been that.
00:05:46.700 The justice committee could have been that if the liberals weren't jerking.
00:05:50.760 At least for the transparency.
00:05:52.940 Yeah.
00:05:53.300 Maybe not for the finding.
00:05:54.480 And, you know, Karl Rove, who is the former Bush campaign manager, he was the keynote speaker
00:05:59.480 to open this conference on Friday.
00:06:02.260 And he was talking about the Russia investigation in the U.S.
00:06:05.840 And he had said something that I think actually applies to Canada that I really, really appreciated.
00:06:10.760 He said about Donald Trump in the White House, if you're not guilty, if you're innocent,
00:06:15.420 stop acting like it.
00:06:16.560 So, stop attacking Mueller.
00:06:17.920 Stop attacking the committee.
00:06:19.500 Stop obfuscating.
00:06:20.920 And I think the same could be said about Justin Trudeau and laugh scam and everything with
00:06:24.740 Jody Wilson-Raybould.
00:06:25.760 If you're not guilty, stop acting like you are.
00:06:27.920 Right.
00:06:28.140 So, if you're not guilty, let her speak.
00:06:30.580 Because it may well be that this whole, you know, because Scott Bryson left thing is the
00:06:35.580 reason.
00:06:36.040 And it may well be that...
00:06:37.540 You're incredibly generous, Andrew.
00:06:38.460 Jody Wilson.
00:06:39.020 I'm saying may.
00:06:40.140 Yeah, I've got to get all those liberal fans out there.
00:06:42.360 It may well be that Jody Wilson-Raybould and Trudeau genuinely had different recollections
00:06:46.820 of the same event.
00:06:47.540 Yeah.
00:06:47.640 Whatever.
00:06:47.920 But when Trudeau is blocking her from speaking, when the Justice Committee is blocking her
00:06:54.900 from speaking again, when Jane Philpott is saying, oh, there's a lot more to this story
00:06:59.080 and the Liberals are still saying, no, there's not, they're acting guilty.
00:07:03.540 And at this point, in my mind, I've naturally conjured up the worst case scenario, because
00:07:09.780 why else would they be trying to block this?
00:07:11.500 And I think a lot of other Canadians are doing the same.
00:07:13.580 But I think they have also conjured up the worst case scenario in their minds.
00:07:18.000 And what I mean by that is, okay, Liberal Party, Jerry Butts, Ontario Liberal, originally
00:07:23.140 from Dalton McGinty's office, David Livingston, a former Chief of Staff to the Ontario Liberals,
00:07:28.180 he was sentenced to, I think, four months in jail for the gas plant's email deletion.
00:07:34.360 So deleting emails, you know, a pretty sort of white-collar bureaucratic thing.
00:07:38.660 Here, we've got this obstruction of justice pressuring the AG.
00:07:41.720 One thing that Jerry Butts said in his testimony, and I found him a less partisan and more credible
00:07:45.500 person than Michael Wernick, actually, when he gave his testimony.
00:07:47.460 Yeah, it was Otto that worked out.
00:07:48.580 And Jerry Butts, he said, I was so busy with NAFTA, I wasn't even really thinking all that
00:07:52.020 much on this file.
00:07:52.800 And I kind of believe him.
00:07:54.240 And I believe it's possible that they did do obstruction of justice in a kind of like
00:07:58.620 doofus-y way, in a sort of not malicious, but just like a negligent way.
00:08:03.780 And after the fact, they're just like, ah, darn.
00:08:08.340 And then they've all lawyered up.
00:08:09.800 And I think they realize, worst case scenario, you know, maybe a judge would not find them
00:08:13.980 guilty.
00:08:14.380 Maybe they would not be found.
00:08:15.660 But they realize there is enough for them to be criminal charges against them.
00:08:19.680 And there is conceivably enough to be convicted.
00:08:21.460 And these are people with, you know, families and young kids at home.
00:08:25.000 They don't want to do that.
00:08:26.080 They don't want to have the David Livingston experience.
00:08:27.840 And I, you know, I get it.
00:08:29.400 Well, to your point about the RCMP earlier, I think the Michael Wernick testimony was very
00:08:33.820 revealing because we saw, and the comment I've made in the past that I think is valid
00:08:37.600 here is that the supposed most senior nonpartisan government official in Canada was running political
00:08:44.840 interference for the Liberals.
00:08:46.460 And when Wernick resigns, it's not a mea culpa.
00:08:49.540 The statement that he gives is that, oh, the Conservatives are to blame because the Conservatives
00:08:52.860 are, you know, reducing trust in Michael Wernick.
00:08:55.780 And I think Michael Wernick is actually reducing trust in Michael Wernick.
00:08:59.400 But when we have this most senior, supposedly nonpartisan government official taking on
00:09:03.620 a very political role, how can Canadians trust the Ethics Commissioner's impartiality, the
00:09:08.740 RCMP's impartiality, all of the Attorney General's impartiality, and all of these situations?
00:09:15.340 It's not to say that there is an institutional corruption in these bodies, but when one thing
00:09:21.320 is revealed to be phony, the entirety is.
00:09:23.320 And when you see Michael Wernick having gone down this road, I understand how Canadians
00:09:28.520 cannot have faith that Trudeau is saying they need to have.
00:09:33.720 Excellent point.
00:09:34.580 Folks, what do you think about that?
00:09:35.640 Do you have faith in the things Trudeau is saying in the system that we're going to get
00:09:39.300 answers from the RCMP or from any committee body?
00:09:42.700 I'm Anthony Fury here with Andrew Lawton at the Manning Networking Conference.
00:09:46.360 Don't forget to share this video, comment, like, and more.
00:09:48.840 Thanks for watching.