Juno News - What we know about the Coutts 4

00:00:00.000 two men have been in jail for nearly three years for their involvement in the coots border blockade

00:00:15.320 the crowd once argued that they were guilty of conspiracy to murder rcmp officers a judge found

00:00:23.180 them not guilty earlier this month but they are still in jail why is it that these men have been

00:00:29.100 in jail for such a long time all their criminals commit murder and they seem to be out much faster

00:00:34.480 than those involved with the coots border blockade hey everyone welcome back to the alberta roundup

00:00:38.960 i'm your host rachel parker joining me today to discuss is my call my colleague isaac larue

00:00:43.740 who has been covering this case closely isaac thank you so much for joining us today

00:00:47.960 thanks good to be here and just to preface this i'm not a lawyer obviously a journalist so

00:00:54.140 to take everything i say with a grain of salt there's this is definitely not legal advice

00:00:58.200 fair enough so when we talk about this let's just start by kind of explaining what this case is and

00:01:05.060 how this is distinct from the coots three so you know obviously following the coots border blockade

00:01:10.680 there was a number of charges that were laid something that i covered closely was the coots

00:01:15.120 three that refers to marco van huyen boss alex van herc and george jansen they were three men

00:01:20.580 they were charged with mischief over five thousand dollars they were found guilty and they now await

00:01:26.180 sentencing that sentencing was supposed to come in july it has been pushed to september um i've

00:01:30.980 interviewed them a few times and i will have updates for you guys in later weeks and months

00:01:35.240 and what's going on there but this case that we are we're taking a look at uh it largely refers to

00:01:40.040 the coots four now two of the men are no longer are no longer being charged and um they've already

00:01:45.220 been sentenced isaac why don't you break down for us who these men are and what exactly they were

00:01:49.940 being charged for the og charges if you will yeah rachel so the coots four originally consisted

00:01:56.160 of anthony olenik chris carbear chris lysack and jerry morin and the latter two accepted a plea deal

00:02:03.120 on lesser charges in february so the conspiracy to commit murder charges were dropped and both of

00:02:09.340 those men were released after serving two years in jail lysack pleaded guilty to a restricted weapons

00:02:16.620 charge and morin pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to traffic a firearm charge uh both men were handed

00:02:23.460 equivalent sentences for time served in custody so the recommendation from the prosecutors uh amounted

00:02:30.580 to a three-year sentence for lysack and a three and a half year sentence for morin and generally anyone

00:02:36.360 who is detained receives a credit of one and a half days for each day serve sorry each day served

00:02:43.520 and morin actually spent 74 days in solitary confinement which receives a multiplier of three

00:02:49.920 days so uh after those two took their plea deals carbear and olenik remained in custody

00:02:56.960 on allegations that they conspired to murder rcmp members members who were policing the border

00:03:03.600 protest at the coots international crossing into montana and their trial was at the time scheduled for

00:03:09.280 june so just going back to those first two who are no longer in jail that's christopher lysack that's

00:03:15.620 jeff morin they were both in jails and they were released in february 2024 after 723 days jail and you

00:03:23.480 were saying you know for jeff morin he was in solitary confinement for 70 days and was given an extra

00:03:29.220 credit so based on the charges i mean first of all that is insane 70 days in solitary confinement like

00:03:34.020 most people would come out of that as a as a broken person like that's not something that um

00:03:40.800 is most people can get through like that would actually break you down as a person if you think

00:03:45.100 about i mean for myself you know more extroverted as a person i i feel a little as if i've gone a

00:03:50.100 couple hours without having spoken to someone else like this is like true evil we are seeing here and

00:03:54.920 then they were let off eventually after pleading guilty to much lesser crimes so when you were talking

00:04:00.400 about they were given a credit it sounds like they actually spent much more time in jail than they

00:04:03.860 should have yeah and just going back to the solitary confinement part i mean i i generally like to think

00:04:12.620 that i i don't mind isolation but i'm sure anyone can imagine that 74 days in solitary confinement i mean

00:04:19.780 even making it through that is honorable in a sense that i mean i can almost think of very little

00:04:27.420 things in the world that would be that challenging that reminds me a little bit of when the two

00:04:33.080 michaels were detained in china and i know um just reading some of the stories that was coming out of

00:04:38.200 at the time when they were still detained and the michael the one michael was saying you know they took

00:04:41.460 his reading glasses away and he wasn't able to read and just how much he was struggling and that in

00:04:45.480 that time and i think it's hard to imagine for for us like what that would be like because it's just

00:04:50.140 such a foreign idea of you know being just totally alone um but you know i really i hope these

00:04:55.940 better okay because it's a very traumatizing thing that's happened to them by the state by the people

00:05:00.660 that you know really are in charge of protecting canadians and it's an absolute failure here so

00:05:05.700 let's take a look at the other two who are still in remand we've got olenek and we've got car bay

00:05:09.780 they eventually um were convicted of charges of mischief and a possession of a weapon um rather than the

00:05:16.680 original crime of conspiracy to kill stamp officers um they were found um not guilty of that of that

00:05:24.560 higher crime of conspiracy in early august but they still remain in jail right now that they were

00:05:31.820 found not guilty in early august they still remain in jail i know that sentencing is supposed to come

00:05:36.020 next week what can we expect to see with this case what are the latest updates to this case with these

00:05:40.400 two men who still remain in remand for about now three three years yeah so just going back to that

00:05:47.880 timeline when the trial was first set to begin in june olenek and car bay had spent 840 days in

00:05:54.680 remand awaiting trial so yeah as you said essentially three years so now the uh the alberta crown prosecutors

00:06:01.260 have given a notice that they intend to appeal the not guilty verdicts given to those two as you

00:06:08.320 mentioned earlier in in august the lethbridge jury had found that they were not guilty of conspiracy to

00:06:13.840 murder police officers however they were convicted of mischief and possession of a weapon for a

00:06:20.120 dangerous purpose and olenek was also found guilty of possessing a pipe bomb so the two are going to

00:06:26.820 face sentencing next week on august 26 and they both still remain in custody so isaac i know that

00:06:34.780 you've been following this case closely like for the general public i feel like we haven't heard very much

00:06:38.820 from these two men do you have any sense of how they've been doing have they released any public

00:06:43.260 statements yeah so this is very interesting uh just yesterday on x this was on the um andrew

00:06:52.380 levine show i think it was but uh uh chris carver essentially called his friend uh marco van hugenboss

00:06:58.180 uh last night members of the coop three yeah as he was on this podcast and he just picked up the call

00:07:04.320 and was put it on speaker and and spoke to him for like 10 minutes which was uh obviously a pretty

00:07:09.640 lucky and random act to happen but it did and the most surprising thing uh i want to say just from

00:07:16.020 listening to that interview quickly was that and they noted this on the show too marco did that that

00:07:22.140 carver really sound to be sounded to be in good spirits you know he wasn't you didn't hear him speak

00:07:28.060 and think wow this guy's depressed he actually sounded pretty good and then he described his intentions

00:07:33.160 for the upcoming week so he said on monday uh the judge will basically determine how the jury reached

00:07:40.580 the decision that they did and then the judge will give their decision on tuesday and then arguments

00:07:46.000 for sentencing will begin on thursday so that's for the the uh lesser charges that they did get found

00:07:53.140 guilty of and then the the charges will essentially be given on friday so they kind of uh talked to chris

00:08:00.420 about how he expects this to go and he said he does expect a decision to be made by the end of

00:08:05.620 this week but also that his lawyer thinks that they might be trying to get under his skin and he

00:08:10.520 doesn't necessarily expect them to go away quietly sure i mean understandable that you would feel that

00:08:16.500 way this point and good to hear that he is in good spirits because i think a lot of times we look at

00:08:19.560 legal case it really is a situation in which people are just worn down and don't have any fight left in

00:08:25.480 them as well as the financial ability to continue to to continue fighting these charges so we talked

00:08:30.500 about that they are awaiting their sentencing that's going to come next week obviously they

00:08:34.380 will be given a credit for their time already served um this is a significant amount of time

00:08:38.960 at this point about three years did olenek say if he's expecting that he will have to remain in jail

00:08:44.920 or is he expecting after the sentencing to come based on the credit that he will receive for all the

00:08:49.220 time already spent in jail is he expecting to be released did he say anything about that

00:08:52.400 so sorry this was chris carbear not not olenek but he did he didn't mention that but one thing that

00:08:57.220 is very interesting that they talked about briefly especially for this alberta roundup show

00:09:01.640 was they discussed the possibility of danielle smith opening an inquiry into the legal proceedings once 0.87

00:09:08.280 the trial has concluded which they are expecting to come within the week and and carbear unsurprisingly

00:09:14.740 said that he definitely supports that he said quote most people are going to be surprised at the

00:09:21.280 things that are happening in our judicial system and inside our federal agency and then he said

00:09:26.360 quote i think there needs to be an inquiry because i don't want other people to go through this like i

00:09:32.180 did and like tony did and like the two other guys to me this has been political the whole time and a

00:09:38.020 cover-up for the emergencies act how likely i mean you know interesting that that was raised i can

00:09:45.200 understand why he would support that inquiry and would desire it how likely do you think it is that

00:09:49.740 alberta premier daniel smith would support such an inquiry

00:09:52.960 i don't know it's hard to say and i really do think that the coots four and the coots two have had

00:10:02.100 uh generally pretty good public support so that might help sway smith in deciding whether or not to

00:10:10.760 open an inquiry if she deems that it would go over well in the public eye so obviously i'm sure many

00:10:19.080 people are hoping that an inquiry is open but it's hard to say whether or not it will and of course

00:10:24.140 uh i should specify that i think it was van hugenboss said on the show too he said let's make sure this

00:10:29.440 is an independent inquiry because uh obviously when government agencies investigate government

00:10:33.820 agencies uh not a lot comes of it sure i would personally be surprised if uh the premier did support

00:10:40.380 such an inquiry given um in her public comments it seems that she's tried to sort of distance herself

00:10:45.620 from this case and say that it's solely a case of the judicial system and that you know her

00:10:50.320 government has nothing to do with it and shouldn't have anything to do with it based on the fact that

00:10:54.320 she you know was already uh received sort of that ethics slap on the wrist for talking to her 1.00

00:10:59.900 justice minister asking him whether prosecution of covet 19 cases including the coots border blockade

00:11:05.020 was appropriate the ethics commissioner had found and said that that was inappropriate that she did

00:11:09.140 that and we've seen you know a strong effort from her to distance herself but i think in the context

00:11:14.260 of the fact that the um ucp convention is coming up in november or the annual general meeting uh more

00:11:22.180 correctly is coming up in november if this is something that the conservative base cares about

00:11:26.140 as you mentioned these men the coots three and the coots four and i guess more specifically the coots

00:11:30.800 two who remain in jail they have had a lot of public support from conservatives this is something that

00:11:36.160 conservatives should put pressure on ahead of the agm maybe even pass a motion at the agm to say that

00:11:40.880 they would like the party to support such an inquiry into this case um isaac just you know

00:11:46.980 just my last question for you here everyone's been talking about this case you know a lot of

00:11:52.220 speculation a lot of people are saying this is one of the worst cases of canadian political

00:11:55.920 prosecution that they've seen what's your take on the situation do you think that these men have

00:12:00.000 been treated fairly by our justice system or is this truly a case of deep-rooted and unfair and

00:12:06.640 unjust political prosecution in canada stemming from people who were treated so poorly during

00:12:13.160 the copa 19 pandemic canadians who still love and respect and desire to see their civil liberties

00:12:18.160 upheld what's your take yeah uh i do think this whole procedure has been unjust and not just for

00:12:27.220 the coots two the coots three the coots four but also of course tamera leach and chris barber and i

00:12:33.400 mean the list goes on as people who know that those who uh protested let's say or against the the

00:12:44.080 the pandemic measures have not been treated fairly those who have decided not to get vaccines and

00:12:49.940 or have been injured from the vaccines have not necessarily been treated fairly i mean the list goes

00:12:55.820 on we could be here all day speaking about the the unfairness of of the pandemic and and the

00:13:01.000 subsequent legal proceedings uh i do have a few quotes here from when uh independent journalist

00:13:08.280 mocha bezirgin he was outside of uh the coots hearing and he talked to a few people one of whom

00:13:14.400 was a retired federal correctional officer who said that she had been quote responsible for the

00:13:21.160 incarceration of some of canada's most notorious criminals and then she went on to liken the

00:13:26.420 ordeal of the coots four to quote torture she said quote i still don't believe people should be

00:13:33.460 tortured in our country and i really believe that's what the men are experiencing in remand

00:13:37.940 for two and a half years is torture torturous i have lots of quotes i could go through here but i mean

00:13:44.560 look there there's no there's no yeah no it has been a a judicial injustice and i do think that if

00:13:54.140 uh any inquiry were to occur that was a fair inquiry and an independent inquiry it would

00:14:00.000 definitely show injustice at levels that i think most people don't even want to begin to think is

00:14:08.940 possible in canada and alberta i mean i think just to put it into context like anyone who's paying

00:14:15.000 attention is concerned when let's go out our justice system seems every week if not every day we get a

00:14:19.720 news story about someone who committed a stabbing or was involved in shooting that we all was already

00:14:25.440 released on bail and and these men you know they were not eligible for bail i've pulled some numbers

00:14:30.200 here um just from the last few years in 2017 a man was given three years for killing three teens

00:14:36.580 there's only given three years in jail these men have been in jail for about three years and they

00:14:40.300 didn't kill anyone in 2021 a man was given eight years for killing four people 2023 five years for

00:14:46.700 killing two children like these numbers just don't add up why are these men being treated so

00:14:51.060 with such hostility by our justice system and people who have actually committed murder are are

00:14:57.200 honestly given us on the rest like these should have all been back-to-back life sentence for every

00:15:01.440 life that was that was taken so it is very disheartening to see isaac thank you so much for

00:15:06.000 kind of breaking this down for us i know that uh we'll be eager to watch your coverage next week of

00:15:10.480 of the next steps in in this case so thank you so much for coming on and uh and sharing your

00:15:15.000 insight with our viewers today thanks a lot rachel i appreciate it all right everyone that's all we

00:15:20.160 have time for today on the alberta round don't forget to check our website tnc.news this week for

00:15:25.700 the updates on that case isaac will have all the details for you i hope that you guys have a great

00:15:31.600 rest of your weekend i will see you next week with some more alberta coverage god bless

00:15:45.000 you

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00:15:48.160 you

Juno News - August 24, 2024

What we know about the Coutts 4

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