Juno News - When conservatives lose their principles, Ontario loses its way. Let's change course

00:00:00.000 Hey, Juno News. Welcome back to another episode of Not Sorry with Alexander Brown.

00:00:10.000 I'm your host, Alexander Brown. I'm the director of the National Citizens Coalition.

00:00:14.000 I am a writer, campaigner, sort of jack-of-all-trades communicator.

00:00:20.000 Thrilled to have you back here, thrilled to be a part of this audience.

00:00:23.000 If you have not taken advantage of our exclusive offer, go to junonews.com slash not sorry for 20% off.

00:00:29.000 Should have appeared where I was pointing right there, the nice button for you.

00:00:33.000 We are thrilled this week to have Matt Spoke of Project Ontario on the episode.

00:00:40.000 Matt is a conservative thought leader, solving for the housing crisis.

00:00:44.000 He's a developer and a serial entrepreneur, works with the Canada Strong and Free Network.

00:00:49.000 And he is putting together a great movement and a great project to hold the Ford Conservatives to account,

00:00:56.000 who have been, let's be honest, a disappointment to many.

00:01:00.000 And Project Ontario, you know, points out that when Conservatives lose their principles, Ontario loses its way.

00:01:07.000 Let's change course. Because if Ontario were an American state, it would rank as the third poorest.

00:01:12.000 Ontario's GDP per capita now trails every G7 country except Italy.

00:01:16.000 And a decade of flat productivity growth ranks at last among Canada's provinces,

00:01:21.000 routinely now seen as Canada's sort of sick man economically.

00:01:25.000 So not getting much better. You know, Ford is, you know, a heck of a populist, but not always, you know, that the rubber doesn't often meet the road when it comes to policy results.

00:01:37.000 He's great at being relatable. He's great at apologizing for mistakes.

00:01:42.000 He's not so great at governing as a conservative, even as a centrist.

00:01:47.000 There, there increasingly are very few principles there.

00:01:50.000 And that's disappointing because there are great people in that building.

00:01:53.000 Great folks who deserve better.

00:01:55.000 I believe Chris Sims pointed this out well today, who does, who does great work with Juno as well.

00:01:59.000 She's with the CTF that it's like, Doug loves like a, a sort of scarecrow.

00:02:04.000 Like he's always good at blaming Trump or, or leaning on the bank of Canada or, or, or, or, you know, blaming somebody else when, you know, we still see that Ontario is like the largest subsovereign debt.

00:02:16.000 Um, when that cozy relationship with Carney has, has yet to bear fruit where youth unemployment is just soaring to, to record highs, you know, housing isn't getting better.

00:02:28.000 Healthcare isn't getting better.

00:02:29.000 Transportation isn't getting better.

00:02:31.000 Crime and safety is becoming a massive concern.

00:02:34.000 He's been nowhere on immigration.

00:02:36.000 And so there are some really important issues to talk about and to, to hold the Ford government to account, to hold, you know, so-called conservatives to account, because I think ordinary families deserve better.

00:02:48.000 I think, you know, this government should stop being some market tested exercise to always be at 50% in the polls.

00:02:55.000 You could be at 40% in the polls and still do good work and still not lose a bunch of these Ontario liberal voters and, you know, make Ontario's towns more cohesive and its economy more productive because it is not.

00:03:10.000 And that's such a darn shame.

00:03:11.000 And so we are thrilled to talk to Matt today, a big fan of his work.

00:03:16.000 It's a really enjoyable chat.

00:03:17.000 And then Juno news.com slash not sorry for 20% off.

00:03:22.000 Thanks for joining us.

00:03:23.000 Thrilled the welcome on Matt spoke to the not sorry show here on Juno news.

00:03:28.000 Matt is one of the founders of project Ontario.

00:03:31.000 He is a real estate entrepreneur.

00:03:33.000 His company Toronto standard develops high rise and mid rise properties with a primary focus on rental housing.

00:03:39.000 So he's trying to solve for the housing crisis.

00:03:41.000 That is incredibly important.

00:03:43.000 And he's also trying to solve for a, what maybe is an Ontario conservative crisis of, of, of some kind.

00:03:50.000 Matt, welcome on the show.

00:03:51.000 Tell us a little bit more about project Ontario.

00:03:54.000 When and why did, did you decide to, to put something like this together?

00:03:58.000 Yeah.

00:03:59.000 Thanks for having me, Alex.

00:04:00.000 Um, and, and first of all, I love the shirt.

00:04:03.000 It's, uh, it's an honor of, we had a zoom call once where you are Hawaiian shirt.

00:04:08.000 I was jealous.

00:04:09.000 I was jealous.

00:04:10.000 You looked resplendent.

00:04:11.000 And so I should, I should have matched you today, but anyways, it's going to be on.

00:04:15.000 Um, yeah, I mean the, the, the backstory behind project Ontario is, is pretty brief.

00:04:20.000 Um, you, you mentioned, um, I'm involved, um, politically in, in Canada, the Canada Strong and Free Network, which, you know, for the most part is a federally focused, um, networking organization of conservatives across the country.

00:04:35.000 Uh, unaffiliated to the federal conservative party, but often sort of like right alongside the party in terms of like creating space for policy conversations.

00:04:45.000 Um, shifting the Overton window if, if necessary to, to make mainstream ideas that we think should be sort of prioritized within the federal sort of arena.

00:04:56.000 Um, and you know, the Canada Strong and Free Network has been around for a long time.

00:04:59.000 I think coming up on 25 years, uh, originally started by Preston Manning, um, under the name of the Manning Foundation.

00:05:05.000 Um, so I, I don't want to, I don't want to equate project Ontario to that.

00:05:09.000 But one thing that I came to realize in my time focusing on federal politics is that, um, there was no equivalent at the provincial level.

00:05:17.000 There was nobody outside of the mechanism of the PC party, um, coming up with policy ideas, holding, um, our party and our government to account if they were straying from a set of principles.

00:05:30.000 Frankly, there was no clear definition of principles as to what it didn't mean to be a conservative in Ontario.

00:05:35.000 Um, you know, I think for the, for the most part, we've always sort of relied on our political leaders to, to create that definition for us.

00:05:41.000 And depending on the political leader and the, the, you know, the, the version of the party at any given point in time, um, that might look a little bit different, right?

00:05:49.000 Like conservatism in Ontario under Bill Davis looked very different than under Mike Harris, and it looks very different under Doug Ford.

00:05:56.000 Um, and I think, you know, myself, along with a few others, you included, who have, who have gotten involved, um, started realizing that there wasn't enough active conversation in Ontario around what should a conservative, you know, uh, quote unquote, small C, um, policy agenda looked like, uh, particularly after seeing a, you know, conservative government in office now for coming up on eight years.

00:06:22.000 Right. So, you know, it was, it was both a, a, uh, uh, the result of frustration seeing just like, uh, not enough getting done.

00:06:31.000 Um, if anything along the, you know, the path that we thought the government should be focused.

00:06:35.000 Um, and also just a lack of creative policy thinking.

00:06:38.000 I, I went, you know, for context last year, I'm a member of the PC party.

00:06:42.000 I have been, you know, most of my adult life.

00:06:44.000 I went last year to the PC policy convention thinking, you know, in good faith, I'm going to engage within the party apparatus to have policy conversations.

00:06:52.000 And I realized pretty firsthand that what they call a policy convention is really nothing to do with policy.

00:06:58.000 It's really them just parroting their, uh, their, their sort of like predefined talking points.

00:07:02.000 There's no room for members of the party or members of the movement to propose or challenge or criticize.

00:07:08.000 Um, and, and I think that, that is, you know, ultimately a weakness in the province of Ontario and within the PC party itself.

00:07:14.000 Um, so project Ontario was sort of born out of that.

00:07:17.000 And now there's a group of us, uh, putting ideas on paper and, and, and trying to use those to start conversations in or around government.

00:07:24.000 Let's say good.

00:07:25.000 And it, it certainly fills a need because I think these last few years I've heard from so many people in government behind the scenes who have been really frustrated, really frustrated by what they have seen as an abdication on principles.

00:07:38.000 This is the same group that even through three consecutive majorities, um, you know, strong mandates, you know, kept Sir John a boarded up for, for years too long, never should have been boarded up at all.

00:07:50.000 And, and it's finally sort of come to a head.

00:07:52.000 It's come to a head that, that yeah, we're, if the concern remains among many is that it it's, you know, congratulations, you keep winning, but this is looking a whole lot like the group before you and the 14 years of winning McGinty before you.

00:08:07.000 You know, that largest sub sovereign debt is, is still a thing.

00:08:11.000 There's still a questionable delivery of services.

00:08:14.000 I, I've been very outspoken about this.

00:08:16.000 I think if I tried to have gone to that policy convention, I might've been, you know, the door might've been slammed in my face at this point.

00:08:24.000 So I'm on my best behavior today, but I want to, when it comes to, what would you say to the argument?

00:08:32.000 And this comes up a lot, you know, to me when I'm talking to people or when I'm talking about this project or holding the Ford conservatives to account for missing a few things.

00:08:43.000 Um, but they win, Matt, they, they were like, you know, three, three consecutive, you know, strong majorities, you know, what's the, what's the counter to that?

00:08:55.000 I mean, I think it's, it's a different, it's a different perspective on what is the role of politics.

00:09:01.000 I mean, um, some view, and I think this is, this is natural.

00:09:06.000 You, you get close to sort of the halls of power and you start to view that your purpose in government is to stay in government.

00:09:13.000 It's to get reelected.

00:09:14.000 Sounds like the federal liberals, Matt.

00:09:16.000 Yeah.

00:09:17.000 It is to, is to always have an eye on the timeline to the next election.

00:09:21.000 Um, and some view politics as a means towards reform, a means towards the implementation of ideas.

00:09:30.000 Um, and I think you need to find a balance there because I don't want to be naive to think that only ideas and no recognition of the practicality of politics.

00:09:43.000 Um, and, and the reality of, of sort of facing the electorate on some cycle is, is real and political parties need to position themselves in a way that increases their odds of getting elected.

00:09:55.000 Um, but if, if in your time in office, you don't implement things that reflect your ideas, then it sort of brings into question, what's the point?

00:10:05.000 What's the point of, of being in office?

00:10:07.000 Right.

00:10:08.000 Um, and, and I, I, you know, I'll say one of my criticisms of this government has been a sense that they follow the polls as opposed to leading them.

00:10:19.000 And what I mean by that is if you were to take, you know, public opinion polling, uh, on any major issue facing the province, whether it be healthcare or education or housing, or, you know, name your issue.

00:10:30.000 Um, you'd probably find that the PC party is quite closely aligned to public opinion on major issues because they've, they've effectively crafted their political, um, their, their political strategy around just like being popular to the most number of people.

00:10:44.000 Um, but I think, you know, a real leadership in politics is often, um, pulling people towards your ideas.

00:10:51.000 So, you know, whether an idea is popular today or not, um, I think strong political leadership is making the case for an idea that may not be popular and popularizing it.

00:11:00.000 Right.

00:11:01.000 So I think we saw this most recently, uh, in the lead up to the last federal election with Pierre Polyev.

00:11:05.000 I think there's a lot of ideas that Pierre Polyev was talking about that would not have been consensus popular issues four years ago that became consensus popular issues in the process of talking about them and convincing people of the merits of these ideas.

00:11:18.000 Um, we don't get that right now out of, out of our, out of our government in Ontario.

00:11:23.000 So it tends to just be sort of like the tail wagging the dog for lack of a better term.

00:11:27.000 And, and I think that leads to bad outcomes.

00:11:29.000 It does.

00:11:30.000 I mean, it's, it's, I gonna reference an Eric Lombardi tweet from today where we even now have sort of small L liberals. 0.57

00:11:38.000 Eric is like an urbanist and a planner and, and a bright young guy.

00:11:42.000 Uh, I'm sure you guys have, have crossed paths where he's, it's even a small L liberal is asking for, uh, for tax cuts is asking a, a sort of a provincial conservative to get out of the way, which tells you that there has been, you know, something's gone awry here.

00:11:56.000 Like I, that, that always looking for consensus that that's not leadership.

00:12:01.000 That is.

00:12:02.000 Well, let alone Eric Lombardi, who, who I do know well, uh, Doug Ford was out this week telling Mark Carney that we're being taxed to death and the federal government should do something about it.

00:12:11.000 As if he doesn't in his control, have some levers there that he can sort of, and, you know, he does this all the time when, when there's, when there's a problem facing the province, it's sort of like pointing the finger to the interest rates that the bank of Canada is setting or to some federal policy or something else other than looking at his own sort of set of policy instruments that he could, you know, use to, to make changes.

00:12:33.000 Yeah.

00:12:34.000 Doug leaning on the bank of Canada is like particularly worrying, like the more and more it happens.

00:12:38.000 It's, it's now like a weekly, actually, I think I know what, you know, is best for interest rates.

00:12:43.000 Do you, you let, you know, the, the TFW program explode.

00:12:47.000 So oftentimes let's say housing, which is your field.

00:12:51.000 You are an expert of experts say you hear a lot about like, Oh, the feds should do this.

00:12:57.000 Or you hear about the municipalities should do this.

00:12:59.000 Like let's, I want to hear from you, your expertise, you know, what, what could the province do right now?

00:13:06.000 Like what could Doug Ford do right now to, to help with Ontario's sort of increasingly world beating housing crisis?

00:13:15.000 Yeah.

00:13:16.000 I mean, what, what is like at the core of this issue is sort of the, this question of like jurisdiction, like whose problem is this to solve?

00:13:23.000 And, and I think what's been convenient for politicians is that there's enough ambiguity that they can all point the finger to each other.

00:13:28.000 Right. So if you're Olivia Chow in Toronto, you can point the finger to the province or the feds, if you're the feds, you can point the finger to the province or the cities and vice versa.

00:13:35.000 Right. So, but the reality is that the majority of this issue sits within the authority of the provincial government.

00:13:42.000 I mean, some of that has been delegated down to municipalities, but municipalities are creatures of the province, meaning the province can supersede municipal bylaws, municipal planning acts by, by decree.

00:13:54.000 I mean, this is not the same thing as the province and the federal government having sort of constitutionally defined jurisdictional boundaries.

00:14:01.000 The city of Toronto, the city of Ottawa, the city of Kingston, London, you name it, where there are issues with our housing market.

00:14:08.000 The province decides to allow them to continue the way they've been operating in a way that frankly has created a lot of the issues facing the housing market in Ontario.

00:14:20.000 But they could just as easily decide to pull some of those levers back.

00:14:23.000 I mean, you, this would have happened most recently in the 1990s when divisions of responsibility between municipalities and the provincial government were sort of redefined.

00:14:35.000 You know, what is a municipal responsibility?

00:14:38.000 What is paid for at a municipal tax revenues versus provincial tax revenues?

00:14:41.000 And, and the Harris government did a lot to sort of rejig those, those lines of responsibility on housing.

00:14:47.000 A lot of this is delegated to the cities to what we call the housing and planning departments of the cities to just find what can be built, where it can be built, what taxes should be levered against those, those or levied against those types of developments.

00:15:01.000 And all of that adds up to a very, very restricted and frankly strangled housing market that can't seem to do anything because there's too many policies restricting or there's too many taxes making these things cost prohibitive.

00:15:14.000 And so one place to go and put pressure is on the cities to say, hey, reverse some of these policies.

00:15:18.000 The reality, though, is that cities and city councilors are beholden to the types of people that vote in municipal elections.

00:15:25.000 And for the most part, these are older homeowners in older and more established neighborhoods.

00:15:30.000 What we, you know, we've come to call NIMBYs.

00:15:32.000 These not in my backyard sort of constituents.

00:15:34.000 And so it's very difficult for a city councilor short of, you know, suiciding their political career to come out very strongly in favor of massive housing reforms.

00:15:45.000 But the province could upload some of these responsibilities back to themselves.

00:15:49.000 They could say, hey, we're going to take some of this back because let's say we have a better sense as to like where growth is happening across the province, what immigration patterns look like, you know, what birth rates are looking like in various parts of the province.

00:16:00.000 And so we can plan more effectively for where growth needs to happen from a housing and infrastructure perspective.

00:16:06.000 So, you know, very simply put, some of this responsibility should be transferred back to the province in terms of how planning is decided.

00:16:13.000 This is things like what can be built where and things like development charges and other taxes related to housing and development that right now are municipal taxes could also be controlled and dictated by the province.

00:16:26.000 Yeah, we see like these cheap wins with him where it's, you know, he'll go at an easy target because it pulls well.

00:16:32.000 But then like the way you just laid out like pretty incredibly and like thankful, thankful for the insight is that like, no, there are there are hard levers to pull, but you can pull them.

00:16:41.000 Like he's talked about strong mayor powers and such.

00:16:43.000 It's like, yeah, well, you could put in some strong housing powers, too, right?

00:16:47.000 Well, and then like, you know, I think it was a week or two ago he was announcing the extension of one of the subway lines north to Richmond Hill.

00:16:55.000 And during that press conference, he made the comment that like development charges are just too high.

00:16:59.000 It would be really good if people started looking to reduce development charges.

00:17:03.000 And, you know, all the commentary on this, you know, myself included was sort of like, Doug, you you have the pen.

00:17:10.000 You could change that policy.

00:17:12.000 What's the name with with Tim Robinson in the hot dog suit?

00:17:15.000 We're all looking for the guy who did this.

00:17:17.000 Yeah.

00:17:18.000 So it's a lot.

00:17:19.000 It's a lot of that.

00:17:20.000 I mean, I do think that there are people within this government that recognize these issues and that would like to reform the things in the right direction, but often are are held back by the powers that be.

00:17:31.000 So, you know, I don't want to paint the entire government and the entire PC party with the same brush.

00:17:36.000 I think there are good principled people within this movement and within this party.

00:17:40.000 But I do think with with a lack of of a very well defined and principled agenda, you end up just getting pulled towards wherever the winds are blowing.

00:17:48.000 Right. So and there's nothing really anchoring you towards the types of reform that we think are needed.

00:17:53.000 And, you know, obviously, I talk about housing a lot because of my business.

00:17:56.000 But what stands out to me is the most obvious missed opportunity in the province is coming out of COVID and not realizing that for the first time in a generation, there was popular support for massive reforms in education and health care.

00:18:12.000 Yeah, because people were sick of having their kids kept at home.

00:18:15.000 They were sick of the you know, they completely overwhelmed health care system that didn't have enough beds where surgeries were being canceled and things like that.

00:18:22.000 And you had a moment in time, which is very rare in Canada, where people would have very open to the idea of very significant structural reforms in our health care system, in our education system.

00:18:32.000 And we had a majority conservative government power that ostensibly should be pro reform in these two domains did nothing. Right.

00:18:40.000 They effectively did nothing. So and that these are very frustrating things when you like care about the outcomes on all these policy files that ultimately add up to the standard of living that we all enjoy or don't enjoy in the province.

00:18:52.000 So and I know that's been touched on as well in the hub through the project and some of the contributors.

00:18:57.000 I think of the education piece and it's you know, there's been all these these all these things just sitting there.

00:19:03.000 And you're right. There are great people in in Queens Park like I I know MPP staffers consultants, you know, that sort of great wall of GR professionals we have now who are all just kind of pulling their hair out and they mean well and they want to do well.

00:19:18.000 But when you have these sort of insular, you know, premier's offices, much like the PMO, it's hard to get anything by them because if it's just run as this risk management assessment, you know, you're not going to you're not going to cover sort of any conservative principles.

00:19:33.000 Yeah. And so what is success look like to you? Let's say Project Ontario and it's growing list of contributors.

00:19:39.000 I'm one there are far greater experts than I let's say let's do like a perfect day exercise here, Matt, like it's a it's a couple of years from now, you wake up, you know, you know, your family's all happy.

00:19:49.000 The sound of kids playing coffee's brewing, you know, you're in Ontario. What does it look like?

00:19:56.000 Well, I'll say like a big part of this in my mind comes down to Doug Ford himself as as as a leader when he was elected in 2018.

00:20:05.000 And frankly, before he was elected, when he was at City Council and when Rob was still around, I was excited by him, his brand of politician and the Ford brand and and and the idea that they knew what they stood for.

00:20:16.000 And they didn't they they wouldn't hesitate to, you know, be a bull in a china shop and ruffle feathers and do the right thing regardless of sort of pushback and public opinion. 0.62

00:20:25.000 I think that version of Doug Ford is long gone. So, you know, I'd say one positive outcome is that version of Doug Ford finds himself again, you know, and you know, to not frame this as a direct challenge or hostility against his leadership.

00:20:38.000 You know, let's say he finds his way back to the right path.

00:20:43.000 And I don't think that's going to come from him because I wouldn't consider him in any way and I don't think he'd consider himself an ideologue of any sort.

00:20:51.000 I don't think he really knows where he stands on major policy files, but he does listen to the people around him.

00:20:56.000 So if we can influence the people around him such that they influence his agenda, then I think that's a very positive outcome.

00:21:02.000 I think and that I think that will look like compromising or sacrificing, I should say, popularity for doing the right thing.

00:21:11.000 I think, you know, relying on the fact that you're at 50% in the polls as if that is the measure of success versus what have you accomplished as the measure of success?

00:21:20.000 I'd much rather see him sitting at 40% in the polls, but doing hard things.

00:21:25.000 That's it, right? And that's been like an argument that I've made before, too, where it's like he could still have majority governments if he sat at 40% in the polls and then everyone would feel happier, safer.

00:21:35.000 Rent would be cheaper. Things would be a little bit more cohesive, right?

00:21:38.000 Like it doesn't does it have to be just this absolute low calorie, just sort of empty crowd play?

00:21:46.000 Or like, could we not like keep a little bit of principles while also being popular and boxing out some some really lousy opposition that just like just can't get out of the blocks?

00:21:55.000 Well, I think that's, you know, the reality in Ontario is that it's a very different brand of politics than places like Alberta or other parts of the country.

00:22:02.000 Right. So I don't think to try to pretend that this is Alberta is the answer.

00:22:06.000 I think you still need to live within the reality of Ontario.

00:22:09.000 But I do think that to rely on 50% popularity just means that you're you're polling within the Liberal Party base, which means you're you're you're pushing policies that are favorable and popular within the Liberal Party base.

00:22:22.000 Right. So it so, you know, to your answer on like, what does life look like?

00:22:26.000 I think life looks like more choice in education.

00:22:28.000 I think life looks like shorter wait times and more access to options in health care.

00:22:33.000 I think life looks like better access and lower cost of housing.

00:22:37.000 You know, I think youth unemployment among, you know, within the broader context of unemployment in general comes down.

00:22:43.000 I think we have safer streets.

00:22:45.000 I don't I don't think these are obscene or, you know, completely dramatic ideas.

00:22:51.000 I think it shouldn't be that shouldn't be too much to ask.

00:22:54.000 Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:55.000 You know, that that province you just described.

00:22:57.000 I think I might move back to it from from British Columbia.

00:23:00.000 That's the real measure of success.

00:23:01.000 The real measure of success is did we get Alex to come back to?

00:23:04.000 That's true. That perfect day.

00:23:05.000 And, you know, starts with me sending you like an offensive meme or something and be like, hey, you know, let's get a beer.

00:23:10.000 But yeah, so so, gee, you know, this project sounds pretty interesting.

00:23:13.000 Do you have any kind of events coming up?

00:23:17.000 Like, like how can people help grow, you know, this pushback and how can they support Project Ontario?

00:23:23.000 Yeah, I mean, it's still finding its its footing in terms of like what do we want to be when we grow up, let's say.

00:23:29.000 But for the for in the immediate term, people can check out Project Ontario dot CA.

00:23:34.000 There's a you know, a few of our publications in terms of like policy ideas that we've been writing about the contributors that are involved in the project.

00:23:41.000 You'll find them there at Project Ontario dot CA.

00:23:43.000 We are also about to launch the details of an event that we're going to be hosting at the end of September, September 30th in Toronto.

00:23:50.000 The venue to be to be to be announced, but it'll be quite central and close to Queen's Park where we're hoping to pull together a group of people.

00:23:59.000 Let's say 200 or so people that are enthusiastic about these ideas, enthusiastic about driving change in the policy conversations that surround the conservative government in Ontario.

00:24:11.000 And then beyond that, it's probably too early to tell. But I do think that the types of people involved in this are very policy minded.

00:24:19.000 So I think a lot of this will will bear out in the depth of policy and the prescriptions that we bring forward to say we are not radical in our proposals.

00:24:29.000 We are we think what we are proposing and bringing to the table is extremely, you know, common sense policy.

00:24:35.000 And what we would love to do is engage with people that are within the realm of influence of this government to actually start looking at what we're putting out there and taking it seriously.

00:24:45.000 So we're always looking for supporters. We're looking for people to, you know, one, show up to our event to sign up on our website to hear more about what we're up to.

00:24:53.000 And I think it'll it'll it'll evolve over the course of the rest of this year and into 2026.

00:24:58.000 But that's sort of what we have in front of us right now. All right. You heard it there, folks.

00:25:02.000 If you share our alarm, you know, head to ProjectOntario.ca.

00:25:06.000 Matt Spoke. Thanks for joining us.

00:25:08.000 Thanks so much, Alex. This is fun.

00:25:10.000 Thank you for joining us today, folks, for another episode of Not Sorry.

00:25:13.000 Before I go, I want you to take advantage of this great deal.

00:25:17.000 You know, I know a guy. He can hook you up. It's me.

00:25:20.000 JunoNews.com slash not sorry for 20 percent off.

00:25:23.000 Thank you for subscribing to Juno News and join the show.

00:25:27.000 We'll see you next week.

00:25:32.000 Bye.

Juno News - August 19, 2025

When conservatives lose their principles, Ontario loses its way. Let's change course

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