Who is Canada’s new Chief of Defence Staff General Jennie Carignan？
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Summary
Last week, Lieutenant General Jenny Carignan took command of the Canadian Armed Forces as Canada s next Chief of Defence Staff, the highest position in the Canadian military, making her not only the first woman to hold such a position, but also the first female to lead a Five Eyes military. She assumed command at a time when the military is facing four major crises: a recruitment crisis, an attrition crisis, a crisis of morale, and a crisis in leadership.
Transcript
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Last week, Lieutenant General Jenny Carignan took command of the Canadian Armed Forces
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as Canada's next Chief of Defence Staff, the highest position in the Canadian military,
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making her not only the first woman to hold such a position,
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but also the first woman to lead a Five Eyes military.
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The work that lays ahead for General Carignan is serious.
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She assumes command of the military when the military is facing four crises
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A recruitment crisis, an attrition crisis, a crisis of morale,
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and arguably, most important, a crisis in leadership.
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Before assuming the role of CDS, General Carignan was appointed to be the first
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Some of these cultural changes implemented by General Carignan include
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temporarily lowering the dress standards to allow things like colored fingernails
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and colored hair as well as neck tattoos, gender-neutral language, gender-neutral uniforms.
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The changes also included mandating tampons to be in every male washroom on a Canadian Armed Forces base.
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Meanwhile, Canada's NATO allies have issued strong letters and signaled their frustration
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to the Justin Trudeau government for not only failing to meet our NATO spending requirements,
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This is all happening while the Canadian military is very much on a war footing.
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We are spending billions of dollars supplying the Ukrainian military,
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and the situation in the Middle East continues to deteriorate.
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We are now closer to World War III than we have ever been before.
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So Justin Trudeau's appointment of Canada's new CDS could arguably be one of his most important
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appointments in his entire nine-year premiership of Canada.
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But who is the real Lieutenant General Jenny Carignan?
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Joining us now on the Faulkner Show is the host of the Hard to Kill podcast
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and a 15-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces, Dave Morrow.
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In 2010, Morrow deployed to Afghanistan with the Vandu Battle Group.
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Dave, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
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So just to get into it, take us through the reaction from the veteran community
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and the active service community, those that you're speaking with.
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What was the reaction like when the news broke that Lieutenant General Jenny Carignan
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was appointed for this incredibly important role?
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Well, I mean, my circle is relatively large, both the ones that are literally next to me
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The general sentiment is not great, I'll be honest.
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And that focuses around the rumors that exist that she didn't perform very well in Iraq.
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Now, these rumors have been floating around for a while.
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So overall, I mean, I don't know about her military record all that much.
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However, this rumor seems to be tarnishing the reputation before she even got into the position.
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And having hosted other people on the podcast that have made comments about her record and her comments,
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And like we say in the military, rummant is probably the best source of intelligence out there.
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And that seems to be circulating quite a bit around her tenure in the Canadian Forces.
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So these are, of course, rumors, but we want to give our audience an insight into what exactly those rumors are.
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And as you say, it's based on rumor intelligence.
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But when you talk about these rumors circulating around her leadership,
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can you explain in more detail what members are saying?
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Well, I mean, not to pull any punches, but she cut and run while she was in charge of the mission in Iraq.
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Like I'm currently wearing the shirt, which is Iraqi Iraqi from Corporal News Network that outlines the ridiculousness of that situation.
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Now, I wasn't there, but having spoken to folks that were, essentially were dealing with a general who was in charge of her troops in Iraq, incoming fire.
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So rockets started to be lobbed into the camp and she decided to cut and run, call her own evacuation, pack up her carpets.
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And the only thing that prevented her from getting on the helicopters was another NATO general from the United States,
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basically dressing her down and telling her to get back into her post.
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And I just haven't seen it addressed as of yet.
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In the interest of fair journalism, True North reached out to the Department of National Defense and General Carignol
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to provide comment to these serious allegations.
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And in response, this is what a Department of National Defense spokesperson told True North.
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We are aware of ongoing disinformation stories currently spreading on social media targeting General Jenny Carignol
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To set the record straight, these claims are entirely false, baseless, and unfounded,
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with no credible evidence or reliable sources to support these false allegations.
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They are aimed at undermining our organization and our mission.
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Well, those allegations, I assume, are part of a broad series of criticisms that have been leveled at the Lieutenant General.
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And I want to get your comment on two individuals.
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One, the outgoing CDS, General Ayer, and comments made by the former Conservative leader, Aaron O'Toole.
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At the change of command ceremony, outgoing CDS, General Wayne Ayer, lashed out at critics of Carignol
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and basically said that they were helping Vladimir Putin.
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He said those critics are useful idiots of the Russian regime.
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Furthermore, Aaron O'Toole took to social media and basically echoed the same comments,
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saying that most of the people that are criticizing General Carignol's appointments are online warriors
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You certainly have spent quite a few days in uniform, as I'm sure many of the other critics of the appointment.
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The reason why we have such a toxic culture in both the military here in Canada and the veteran population
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is because of individuals like this that don't understand what's going on.
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We're not criticizing, per se, the individual so much as the institution.
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Because to imply that somehow a person like myself, who is openly critical and have been for years of General Carignol,
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to say that somehow I only criticize her because she's a woman is so disingenuous.
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Because if you look at my feed, I go hard at General Ayer.
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Because I think he's probably the worst General Canada has ever seen
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and probably oversaw the complete collapse of the Canadian Armed Forces.
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But I don't think General Carignol will be the absolute downfall of the Canadian Armed Forces.
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I mean, my Russian is not great, but to imply that anybody that criticizes your government
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is somehow an agent or a useful idiot is laughable, but deeply insulting.
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But having a thick skin from being in the military and being in the infantry for 15 years,
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I just shrug it off and add it to the pile of insanity that's been going on within our culture forever, more or less.
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I want to go back to General Carignol's leadership in the field.
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Ultimately, to me, that's really what I think should separate those that are suitable for the role of the chief of the defense staff.
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Obviously, there are those rumors circulating, which we can't substantiate.
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But she has been leading troops in Afghanistan, in Iraq, as well as she played a combat role in Bosnia.
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So have you heard anything about her leadership skills from those that have worked under her,
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besides whatever might be floating around on social media, but just simply about her quality of leadership?
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Have you heard anything to outline, perhaps, her suitability for this role?
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I mean, the main issue here is the fact that she was rumored to have left her post or tried to have left her post.
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But additionally, years ago, she was appointed to a new position for culture change in the military.
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And the clear indication is that that's been a resounding failure.
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So adding to the list of failures that just the general staff in general have been doing over the last 20, 30 years,
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it's just kind of astounding that somebody would come out and say that just because she's a woman,
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somehow she's going to get more attention and more criticism.
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It's just denying the fact that overall, the entire leadership of the Canadian Forces has failed miserably for decades.
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Right. And I think with being in the service for so long at a leadership position,
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there is quite a lot to look at as points of success and points of criticism.
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Let's get into her role as the chief of professional conduct.
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A lot went on during her tenure in that position.
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There was a lot of culture change taking place inside the Canadian Armed Forces.
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We, of course, know about the gender neutral uniforms, the gender neutral language, tampons in male washrooms,
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But how has her, of the things that she implemented in that culture change role,
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I mean, from my perspective, right, as you know, I'm a veteran, so I'm not in the forces.
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Other than I do work sometimes with some units here and I do have some interaction with folks that are still in.
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A lot of my friends are senior officers and senior non-commissioned officers now.
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Just in casual conversation, most, especially from my generation, fought in the war in Afghanistan.
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So that corporate knowledge of war fighting is about to leave the forces
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because there's only about five more years left before most of them are due for retirement.
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And with that being said, the feeling that I'm getting is that we can't wait to leave.
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Now, all these extras that came about, tampons in the male washrooms, uniform changes.
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I mean, I think they're just distractions, to be honest.
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They're trying to distract from a very, very big problem.
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And so that shields leadership from the big issues, which are clearly war fighting
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and making sure that you have an effective fighting force that can defend Canada.
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So, I mean, to comment on what it's like in the forces right now, I think it's just demoralized.
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I think from what I can see, it's very hard to stay in if you are a war fighting individual
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that wants to protect Canada and wants to seek out and destroy the enemy.
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I'm laughing when I say it because it's almost like that's not even close to what the mandate
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It's like it's social justice, which is the mandate for the Canadian Armed Forces, which
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You mentioned this, you know, this drop in morale.
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We know there is a morale crisis inside the Canadian Armed Forces.
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But most people are not actually involved in the Canadian Armed Forces.
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And they don't know what a morale crisis really looks like, whether you're a veteran or inside
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So when you have these reports of just a drop in morale, people not knowing what their job
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is and not being proud inside the military, what does that look like?
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We just don't know what a real morale crisis actually looks like on the day to day.
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I mean, I guess the closest example I could use in like the civilian world is just your
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your nine to five morale isn't necessarily as important because the overwhelming majority of
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They go, they work, they're not expected to potentially die that day.
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So the level of morale required for a nine to five is not quite as high as for a military
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But it's also, it's hard to quantify, but you can tell it when there is a high level
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They want to get to the, on their next deployment.
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Some, there's a hiccup in, let's say their administration.
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I'm doing something that is bigger than myself.
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And you'll look after each other and you'll go out of your way to accomplish the mission
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because the mission is the most important thing above all else.
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When you lose morale, that all goes by the wayside.
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And when you're fighting spirit plummets, your ability to actually wage war against a hardened
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And that's been described since the Roman era, the Greeks and countless historical textbooks.
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And at this point, I don't know how good our morale is to mount a fight against a hardened
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And that kind of worries me a little bit because we're clearly in the middle of something.
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I would even argue we're in the middle of a war right now.
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It's just that we're not literally in trenches.
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But we have some really big issues that might flare up in a very short window of time.
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And if we don't have the military prepared for it, I'm genuinely concerned about the security
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But it's definitely not the way we're going about things right now.
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And certainly the new chief of the defense staff has a lot of work on her hands to try to tackle.
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Now, one of those is without a doubt recruitment.
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In her change of command speech, she mentioned that changing the recruitment prospects of the
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As someone who signed up to be in the military, you know people still involved.
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What do you think needs to be done to solve the recruitment crisis?
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What does the pitch need to be to young Canadians to try to incentivize them to join the military?
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Well, ironically, she, Jenny Karania, actually discovered what that was with her own poll
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She sent out the poll to 9,000 troops, a very large poll.
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And it said, we want a clear mission and we want to know what it means to be a warfighter.
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That's almost a third of the Canadian Armed Forces, believe it or not, or fifth of the Canadian Armed Forces.
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So that being said, for anybody that wants to join, that is it.
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We didn't have, like, I joined right before 9-11.
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I'd done my recruit training and it really sunk in.
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I'm like, oh, I'm actually a soldier now and war is likely.
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I didn't put my papers in and say, no, I'm not involved in this.
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I wanted to actually fight in a war because my grandfather fought in the Second World War.
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It was part of our proud military heritage in our family.
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And so anybody that wants to join, you just need to pull on those strengths.
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Patriotism, serving your country, and defending it against our enemies.
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And that's as simple as the message needs to be.
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We don't need to recruit folks with purple hair and have all kinds of different identities
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because at the root of it, the reason why I joined is I needed order in my life.
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Well, I did, but it wasn't as much as I would like to have had.
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And I saw the military as an avenue to become a man.
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And you're always going to find young men ready and willing to serve if the messaging
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The reason why we can't recruit anybody is because you're trying to recruit folks that
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And if my recruiting efforts were to people that don't want to buy my stuff, then I have
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And it's as simple as that, but they choose not to.
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Why do you think the prime minister went forward with this appointment, with appointing General
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Obviously, there were other potential people to choose for this role.
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She's the first woman to lead a military in the Five Eyes.
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It certainly is a historic moment, and it kind of flows along with Justin Trudeau's
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But do you think that the appointment is political?
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Is that the feeling that a lot of veterans have, that this is about politics and not necessarily
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about putting the military in a position to be best suited to defend the country?
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And as you say, a position and a time in the world where war is a serious prospect.
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Yeah, like I would argue, I would say that Canada is in the middle of a war.
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We send billions of dollars to the Ukraine to fight a war.
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So I would say that the chief of defense staff now is a wartime chief of defense staff.
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And I'm not going to pretend that the chief of defense staff is not a political position.
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They have to broach the military and the politics of the day for the country.
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But if the position isn't merited, I think we're in a big, big problem here.
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Because when you have somebody that is at that top, top, tippy-to-top position of the military,
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that is the forward-facing element of what represents us.
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So therefore, everything downstream is a reflection of that individual.
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If you choose wrongly, you're going to have some problems.
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And judging just by her record, I don't know her military qualifications.
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I don't know what her record was like as a leader.
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However, just based off of her record in the culture department, it's a resounding failure
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because we have a recruiting crisis, because we have droves wanting to leave.
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So with that being said, if you were to just rank apples to apples, oranges to oranges,
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for the generals that were up for this position, did she merit the position?
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But it seems like, and this is based off of conversations I've had with guests like Philip
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Miller, who's a lawyer and a veteran on my show, it seems like the appointment was already
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a FEDACOM plea in the halls of the liberal government.
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And they were going to make this happen regardless.
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But that to me for the military is a death blow because the person didn't merit the position.
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And our whole system is supposed to be based off of merit, not based off of who you know.
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And I don't think it's going to be good for morale long-term.
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Talk to us about the leadership of General Wayne Ayer.
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Under his leadership, we have heard not only reports from him and other senior high-ranking
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members of the military talking about how there aren't enough members in the force to
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There aren't enough force, there aren't enough members to actually deal with the problems
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We also read reports about troops in Latvia having to buy their own helmets, chest rigs
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Housing crises on military, on and off military bases.
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It seems like it's just been one failure after the next under General Wayne Ayer's leadership.
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Is that the general sentiment that people in the veteran community and in the active force
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I mean, I can speak for myself and other folks that I've spoken to both in person and on the
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I genuinely think he is part of a plan for just the managed decline of the forces because
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I can't understand how a general would just let his entire force crumble in front of his
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eyes if he wasn't actively trying to let that happen.
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I mean, case in point, he's essentially calling folks like myself Russian agents when he could
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very well try to ally with folks like myself, learn the battle space, learn that you don't
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I will gladly bring folks on like himself who have a message to say that is positive, that
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wants to ensure that folks, if they're in, they want to actually be looked after to
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actually fight wars, to actually feel like they're proud of what they're doing.
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I gladly have them on, but there's an animosity there.
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I'm not quite sure what it is, but ultimately his decisions that really flipped my opinion
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on him because initially I thought he was a great appointment.
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I don't know him personally, but in terms of chief of defense staff, I thought, yeah,
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But what really activated me was during the COVID mandates where he clearly knew based off
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his own records and his own briefings that this was likely going to be a gray zone and
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likely harm a lot of members in his own military.
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And he was even advised against doing it, which most people don't know.
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And even after it was proven that this was a human rights abuse, he has yet to come out
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And if he's wondering why folks don't want to stay in and folks are just not wanting
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And you can pretend that you are a wartime general that are looking after the troops,
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that we need procurement, we need more missiles and bombs, but you're not going to get the
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And the lack of trust, I think, is the biggest issue.
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And that's why I think he's one of the worst chief of defense staffs we've seen since likely
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We keep on seeing, I'm getting old enough now, I'm in my 40s.
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I just don't understand how leadership continually fails here in this country.
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And that's what's so frustrating for me and a lot of folks in the veteran community.
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Part of the whole call for there to be a chief of culture change, if you want to call
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Was that there was a string of senior military leaders who were basically kicked out of their
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positions on allegations of abuse, sexual assault, and the like.
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Many of those who were alleged to have committed misconduct have now settled outside of court
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How has that impacted the leadership class in the military?
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Because we've seen Denny Fortin face issues like this.
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Even earlier, outside of the sexual misconduct story, we saw Admiral Mark Norman go down as well.
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Because to me, when I look at that, I'm seeing a whole class of leaders in the military be
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taken out and then proven right after the fact.
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I mean, this is such a, this is such a hot button topic because I think the powers of VB knew exactly
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I think they were weaponizing this whole process.
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And I have a very close friend that's even involved in this as well.
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And all it's done is just completely eviscerate morale even more.
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And the, the worrisome thing to me is that what they've done is they've created the conditions
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And it's not saying that there isn't sexual assaults that happen in the military.
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And I think that's where most people, if they listen to my opinion, think, oh, well,
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he's just on the side of the, you know, the, the abusers, not at all.
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Now the investigation is a whole other, whole other kettle of fish.
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I think we do a terrible job here in the Canadian armed forces, but that's not really something
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However, in terms of what we've done in the witch hunts against our general staff, I don't
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know who would want to be a general at this point.
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And I think all it's done is, is it's, it's shut a lot of generals up.
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It's shut a lot of veterans who were generals up because they're fearful.
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And this is coming from, again, Philip Miller, who basically called it right out.
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They're petrified of saying anything contrary to the status quo.
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And it reminds me of, I read Gulag Archipelago, thanks to Jordan Peterson's recommendation.
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And there's a part of the book where it really stood out where the mayor, he was holding a
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mandatory town hall, the commissars there, the communist parties there, they're in the
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And they had to applaud the great work that the communist party has done to feed the masses,
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And they, they all have to stand up and applaud.
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And he knows nobody can sit down because if anybody sits down, they're going to be taken
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The weak are falling down because they're getting exhausted.
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They're clapping for minutes, which is a lifetime.
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He sits down and then they grab him and throw him in the Gulag.
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Folks are so petrified of the ruling party that they will be taken off to the metaphorical
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I get so many messages with folks that are in like, Hey Dave, I wish I could speak up.
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I have no sympathy for them because they got to stand up.
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I mean, I used to do a lot of training in Petawawa and for the RCR, they have plastered
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That stuck with me, but it's like our culture today is pass every fault, look down, don't
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And I think that's what they purposely did to the general staff and to the GOFO officers.
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And now we're just seeing it exist within the entire Canadian Armed Forces.
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And I think it's going to take decades to kind of build things back up.
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Talk to me now about the state of veterans affairs in Canada.
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It's not something that gets a lot of attention in the mainstream media or at a political level,
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And some of the stories we've read recently have been just disgraceful.
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I'm thinking in particular about veterans being offered MAID for services instead of actually
00:27:47.720
I know you're part of the veterans community as well.
00:27:50.000
How has the government over the past, well, they've been in, they've been in power now
00:28:10.560
I think the last study showed that only about 20 to 25% of veterans that actually would qualify
00:28:17.660
I was part of that, you know, 75% that wouldn't apply for benefits.
00:28:23.020
Plus I didn't want to deal with veterans affairs.
00:28:24.780
I was so fed up with the military when I left that I wanted nothing to do with the whole
00:28:29.720
I realized now they're two very different systems, but overall we're failing veterans
00:28:40.500
When I started getting wind in chat groups that some of the guys had friends that were
00:28:50.880
Like somebody's pulling my leg and then slowly, but surely, no, this is actually a thing.
00:28:56.460
And so I dismissed it as a one-off, an individual of veterans affairs that's out of their mind.
00:29:02.380
But it turns out there's a few more and then there's a few more and, oh, this seems like
00:29:07.120
it's policy and now it's starting to look clearer and clearer that in order to ensure
00:29:14.760
that they have a robust system that's well understood and well implemented, they're using
00:29:21.360
And I can't think of a more disgusting thing to do as a country.
00:29:24.880
And I only really started getting peaked to this because I have a friend who's in the UK
00:29:32.080
So that tells you something about the amount of media coverage that we get here in Canada
00:29:37.600
And, you know, just having been through the system for so long, you know, 14 years, I'm
00:29:44.140
There's so many different layers of bureaucracy and compensation programs that it's mind boggling.
00:29:49.920
And I truly think that the intent is just to confuse you and demoralize you.
00:29:57.040
That's why I try to put the message out as much as possible.
00:30:00.900
There's plenty of folks that will do things for free pro bono to help get your paperwork
00:30:07.480
There are some good people that are trying to make some changes, but ultimately they're
00:30:11.040
bogged down by a government and a bureaucracy that I think is structured on purpose to deny
00:30:18.700
Because ultimately I think the government would prefer a dead veteran than a veteran like
00:30:22.680
myself that speaks up because we are a genuine threat to their power.
00:30:26.180
Because guys like myself, I can't get canceled.
00:30:33.960
I talk to people that know what's going on and I'm not afraid to speak up.
00:30:38.160
And I think that is the sleeping giant that they've awoken with this.
00:30:41.980
And I can't wait for more veterans to start advocating and start getting in the face of
0.79
00:30:45.700
the government and making sure that we get our needs and our coverage for injuries incurred
00:30:56.360
And if there's a group in Canada that is deserving of it the most, it's certainly the veterans
00:31:00.640
Dave, before I let you go, can you talk to us more about the Hard to Kill podcast and where
00:31:09.380
So the Hard to Kill podcast, the go-to podcast for fitness, health, and mindset for the veteran
00:31:18.220
And every week I go live on YouTube and drop an episode with a guest that is an expert
00:31:25.880
And we have great conversations about all things fitness and health.
00:31:29.320
You can find me on your favorite podcast player.
00:31:32.860
Just type in the Hard to Kill podcast with Dave Morrow.
00:31:36.640
You can also find me on YouTube at the Hard to Kill podcast.
00:31:41.220
And a link to the podcast on YouTube, as well as Apple Music, you can find in the description
00:31:47.200
Dave, thank you so much for joining us on the show today.