Juno News - Why is Doug Ford so afraid of testifying before Emergencies Act commission？

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:05.740 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by TrueNord.

00:00:13.280 Hello and welcome to you all.

00:00:16.000 This is Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:18.820 You're tuned in live to the Andrew Lawton Show,

00:00:20.960 Monday, October 24th, 2022.

00:00:24.460 Day 8 of the Public Order Emergency Commission hearings in Ottawa

00:00:29.100 and as we have talked about last week and two weeks ago on the show we're going to keep following

00:00:34.460 this talking about things that are happening in the hearing room and also things that are

00:00:39.060 happening outside the hearing room that have a great deal of relevance on what are what's

00:00:44.760 happening there and I want to just start right out of the gate on this there was a fascinating

00:00:49.340 development today where Ontario Premier Doug Ford and Ontario Solicitor General Sylvia Jones

00:00:55.920 who last week said Ford said specifically that he wasn't testifying before the Public Order

00:01:03.000 Emergency Commission because he hadn't been asked well this week the commission has said we've asked

00:01:07.680 you numerous times and you have not responded or you have declined so now the commission has issued

00:01:14.420 Doug Ford and Sylvia Jones a legal summons to compel them to appear before the commission

00:01:20.960 hearings as witnesses. Now you may think, okay, that's a little bit of a strange development for

00:01:26.320 a guy that just said he wasn't there because he hadn't been asked. But now Ford has applied for

00:01:31.180 judicial review to stop himself from having to appear. He says it violates parliamentary

00:01:37.080 privilege. So my question here, why on earth does Doug Ford not want to testify? Here's a guy

00:01:42.640 who by his own admission said he's a supporter of the Emergencies Act being used. He said he was

00:01:48.680 standing shoulder to shoulder with Justin Trudeau and his buddy Christia Freeland and they were all

00:01:53.040 working together and this was important and he was taking a stand against the terrible truckers

00:01:58.600 by supporting the emergencies act why does he not want to go under oath and talk about that

00:02:02.800 if he thinks it was so necessary is it maybe because last week we learned that the federal

00:02:08.320 government was trash talking him behind his back Justin Trudeau and Jim Watson weren't being as

00:02:13.240 buddy-buddy with him as he was with them or is it because he knows that the government didn't really

00:02:17.960 have the basis to do it, as we're hearing from countless witnesses that have been testifying

00:02:23.720 before this commission over the last eight days. I'm going to bring into the discussion in just a

00:02:29.500 moment's time Keith Wilson, who is a lawyer extraordinaire, a King's counsel, the first

00:02:34.420 King's counsel I've ever met because he was the first to change from the QC that he had had for

00:02:39.420 so many years. But before I bring in Keith, I just want to play one of the clips that has

00:02:43.940 been coming out of the many things today we've learned from Interim Ottawa Police Chief Steve

00:02:50.120 Bell and one of them I think is becoming the key theme here when we learned that police had a plan

00:02:58.260 police had a plan to deal with what was happening that didn't involve the Emergencies Act we were

00:03:04.060 told this last week by police representatives and we were told it again today by Interim Chief Bell

00:03:09.820 oh maybe we don't have that clip all right sorry about that we'll we'll get to that clip a little

00:03:21.780 bit later on in the show I've oversold but you know what the best way I can fix this is by

00:03:26.200 bringing Keith Wilson on now he is he's going to save any show before it goes off the rails

00:03:30.620 Keith it's good to talk to you thanks for coming on today thanks for having me on Andrew

00:03:35.740 So let me start first off with this business with Doug Ford here.

00:03:40.320 Why on earth is it that the Premier would have to be summonsed to appear when just last week he was saying,

00:03:48.620 yeah, I'm all for appearing, I'm all for coming, they just haven't asked yet?

00:03:52.360 Well, he's given the answer with the judicial review you mentioned that he doesn't want to testify.

00:03:58.560 And that, of course, raises some interesting questions.

00:04:01.520 What is he worried that he's going to be asked?

00:04:03.600 What is he worried that he might have to answer?

00:04:07.680 This is very surprising even to me, who, as you can imagine, with all the things I've been through,

00:04:13.920 I've got a pretty high threshold for surprise, and this one trips it handily.

00:04:18.680 Yeah, I mean, I would say that as far as people that we could benefit from hearing from here,

00:04:25.260 the Ontario government will be a fascinating one because this was the government that had to grapple with the Ambassador Bridge blockade.

00:04:32.500 And it's the government that managed to clear up that blockade without the Emergencies Act, using regular policing powers just in a matter of about 48 hours.

00:04:41.180 So I actually think hearing from Premier Ford about why you couldn't just apply what you did there to Ottawa would be a fascinating revelation for the commission.

00:04:52.380 Well, and for all of us, I mean, what's striking is compare it to something else.

00:04:57.460 the the premier ford's position as we now have learned in the last number of hours

00:05:02.180 which is compare it to the position of the prime minister

00:05:05.300 doug ford was not a decision maker with respect to the invocation of the emergencies act the

00:05:09.620 prime minister was and he's expressed a willingness to to testify is not requiring to be subpoenaed

00:05:16.980 he's coming under his own volition i think he realized he had no choice but you know why

00:05:22.500 why premier ford would do this to himself he's likely to lose his judicial review just because

00:05:30.200 the case law is so clear um he's not precluded from invoking a privilege when he's asked a

00:05:37.100 question if the question triggers privilege so this is um bad political strategy in my view he

00:05:44.860 would have been better off to just say yeah i'm happy to come and share whatever mission i have

00:05:49.060 and help Canadians get to the bottom of this.

00:05:51.320 It's a very important inquiry and happy to be here.

00:05:54.200 Instead, he's just embroiled himself in a self-imposed controversy.

00:05:59.520 When we talk about the witnesses that are slated to appear,

00:06:03.880 we've got members of the Convoy's board,

00:06:06.980 we've got more police representatives,

00:06:09.500 we've got some bureaucrats from all number of federal departments

00:06:12.820 and intelligence agencies, we've got federal cabinet ministers.

00:06:15.580 I know that this is fluid and more witnesses could be added here.

00:06:20.360 We also have that statutory cutoff where the report has to be tabled by February.

00:06:26.720 And I'm wondering, is it possible to cast too wide a net here and bring in more people than are needed for the commissioner to make the decision?

00:06:33.940 Or is your view that this witness list is actually so light that key details are being missed?

00:06:40.080 Well, you're right that it's a dynamic process.

00:06:43.320 the witness list that everyone's seen was the first preliminary witness list there will be a

00:06:49.400 new witness list coming out soon and it will have a lot more names on it and that's the nature of

00:06:56.220 this process we've been working with the commission's lawyers on on expanding the

00:07:02.360 number of witnesses that will speak on behalf of the freedom convoy protesters so it is and

00:07:08.140 And the other thing that's happening here is, which is really unusual for lawyers anyway,

00:07:13.580 is that normally before you go into something like this, all the documents are disclosed

00:07:17.600 and you have a chance to review them.

00:07:19.400 We're getting new documents disclosed every day.

00:07:22.280 And the last count we had, we were over 15,000 records, well over 20,000 pages of documents.

00:07:32.460 So the paper evidence just keeps coming in by the day that, depending on our review of it and what we find and other parties finds, then triggers a request.

00:07:44.460 So, for example, one of the things that our group and a number of other lawyers representing other groups made a formal application late last week to have the commissioner issue a subpoena to the head of the CBC to testify.

00:07:58.100 because one of the focuses in the ordering council for this public inquiry is to examine

00:08:05.380 misinformation and disinformation and given that we couldn't understand why the head of the cbc

00:08:11.820 wasn't at the top of the witness list so we know that mendocino and other ministers have routinely

00:08:18.360 referred to fake news stories as a basis of their decision making so this inquiry has been

00:08:26.640 fascinating since the first day as you know we're on day eight of 38 days of of evidence we still

00:08:33.900 have at least 30 days to go assuming we don't start sitting saturdays and i think we're going

00:08:38.320 to start sitting the hearing on saturdays very soon just on a on a this is not a question that's

00:08:44.540 coming from anywhere but my own mind here is there a mechanism at all to delay the production

00:08:50.920 of the report if for some reason they need more time for hearings they need more witnesses more

00:08:57.280 time to put it all together or is that a complete no-go under the statute well the what's the

00:09:04.140 statute simple says that you have to table your report before the legislatures of the provinces

00:09:09.860 and the parliament of canada and the senate within 365 days of the revocation of the invocation

00:09:17.360 okay so that puts us into february next year as to whether or not the commissioner decides so he's

00:09:24.200 got two blocks of time left hearing time and then review and writing time he may decide to chop a

00:09:31.340 week or two off of his his writing time for him and his commission staff and and extend the hearing

00:09:37.900 um the only other i've been asked this question many times the only other situation would be if

00:09:44.660 the parliament and the senate decide to amend the emergencies act to modify section 63

00:09:51.120 and change it from 365 days to some other number so we can all guess at what the mechanics of that

00:10:00.300 might be but the commissioner is running a very tight ship we put in a request each day by five

00:10:07.220 o'clock for the witnesses we're going to be cross-examining three days from now and that's

00:10:11.420 the rule we do every day we're working seven days a week uh many many hours a day and night

00:10:16.700 um and we have to identify all of the documents that we're going to put to the witness in cross

00:10:23.020 so we would have identified uh interim chief bell what i guess on friday of last week

00:10:28.940 um and then we so we may say we need an hour and a half to cross examine uh interim chief

00:10:35.180 bell and then the commissioner will say you get 15 minutes or you get 10 minutes or you get 20

00:10:39.500 minutes so that's how it works for all the parties and uh and he's got a stop clock up there

00:10:45.400 as you probably noticed he'll sometimes let you run over a little bit but he's running a pretty

00:10:50.340 tight ship and um uh you know right now we're assuming we're going to finish on time and but

00:10:56.580 we're very much alive to the fact that in the next couple of weeks we'll probably be sitting on

00:11:01.020 saturdays and holding the hearing on saturdays as well as going till eight and nine o'clock each

00:11:05.540 night i want to play a very brief clip here from uh today this is brendan miller representing

00:11:11.520 uh freedom corp uh during his cross-examination of interim chief bell earlier today talking about

00:11:18.000 this idea of there being a plan by police without the emergencies act but last question just because

00:11:26.520 i just want to get this clear but so you're saying that there was existing laws that you

00:11:31.720 could have done the same thing under. Is that right? We had a plan. We were going to execute

00:11:37.180 a plan. Thank you. Very clear question. You had existing laws. The interim chief says there was

00:11:43.760 a plan. We had a plan. You know, when these sorts of revelations came out last week, there was a

00:11:49.200 part of me that wondered if, you know, in very dramatic Hollywood-like fashion, Brendan Miller

00:11:53.660 could just say, I rest my case, nothing further and go home. Because really that seems to be

00:11:59.880 inherently inherently disqualifying for the emergencies act the way the act is written

00:12:05.960 well when brendan uh and you know we're thrilled to have him leading our team and being the lead

00:12:10.920 barrister that was to be my job but after i assessed brendan's skills and the role that

00:12:17.160 i'm taking in this inquiry and the fact that i'm likely to testify it simply wasn't proper to have

00:12:22.280 me be the barrister but brendan's doing a terrific job but when he did his opening statement you'll

00:12:27.800 You'll recall, Andrew, that he was very straightforward and he laid out, here's the four things that the government has to establish, you know, that there was acts of sabotage or espionage.

00:12:41.800 There will be no evidence of espionage.

00:12:44.240 There will be that they have to establish that there was threats of serious violence against persons and property.

00:12:49.480 There will be no evidence.

00:12:50.660 And he went through the list in his opening statement.

00:12:53.680 he reframed his opening statement at a cross-examination questions when he interviewed

00:12:58.380 the head of the OPP's intelligence unit and he answered each one of them you know in the negative

00:13:06.360 there what there there's no evidence of serious fights against property there was no evidence of

00:13:11.360 insurrection there was no evidence of of of terrorist activity all of these requirements so

00:13:16.820 after that cross-examination last week of the head of the OPP's intelligence

00:13:21.640 group we we we did kind of joke well you know time to pack our bags and head home to our families

00:13:29.080 but of course we got to see this thing out and we will because it's not just the legal test that's

00:13:35.100 at issue here it's the narrative and I'm really concerned about this element of misinformation

00:13:40.920 disinformation because in my view having cross-examined all the various government experts

00:13:46.420 and officials on the Peckford case with respect to the justifications for the mandates and

00:13:51.620 the vaccine approval process and all of these other issues I know where the disinformation is

00:13:57.380 it's it's it's from the government and so there's there's other narratives that need to be explored

00:14:03.380 and exposed and it's going to continue to be a fascinating inquiry in my view you mentioned the

00:14:09.020 the Peckford case you and I have spoken about this in the past and I covered the hearing that took

00:14:14.500 place on the federal government's application to dismiss the whole thing as moot because in their

00:14:19.040 words the mandates were gone you don't need to be vaccinated to get on a plane case closed and it

00:14:24.880 was quite disheartening the other day when the federal court justice the associate chief justice

00:14:29.920 approved that she granted that motion she said this is moot reasons that have not yet been

00:14:34.760 published here but even though the federal government in its own language has said this

00:14:39.580 was a temporary suspension they've managed to essentially convince the federal court of this

00:14:45.820 country that it's not worth hearing whether that mandate was unconstitutional to begin with now i

00:14:51.220 know uh premier peckford maxine bernier uh some of the other applicants as well i believe have said

00:14:56.760 they're going to appeal this but i was wondering if you could explain in the absence of decisions

00:15:01.460 why you think that went the way it did in the absence of reasons rather well i mean i hate to

00:15:08.880 be cynical but I have no choice given what I've seen and it's just clear to me when you look at

00:15:16.200 the decisions of our courts at the provincial level in the federal level they've just been

00:15:21.600 been unwilling lacking the judicial courage I believe to do the hard analysis I don't feel

00:15:32.780 that uh you know there's the the image of lady justice with the scales of justice and the

00:15:39.200 blindfold the blindfold's probably you know down over her nose right now is how i'm feeling

00:15:46.100 and um uh they're just when you look at the legal test for whether or not to grant a mootness motion

00:15:53.740 you know when there's a serious constitutional issue at play is one of the reasons not to strike

00:16:00.140 out a case for mootness and we have clear uncontroverted evidence that over six million

00:16:07.660 canadians fundamental right of mobility under section six of the charter were grossly violated

00:16:12.700 resulting in them being unable to be at the side of dying loved ones attend funerals be there for

00:16:19.420 their first grandchild to help a loved one be discharged and recover from hospital to go to

00:16:26.380 to weddings and other important celebrations that this was a violation of charter rights on a scale

00:16:34.060 that has never occurred in our history and is almost unimaginable but it happened and for the

00:16:40.140 court to say well you know nothing to see here they they suspended those travel mandates now move

00:16:47.820 along everyone is uh is not helpful um the courts as i said to the judge in my oral argument

00:16:58.060 provide a fundamental role in a modern democracy in a civil society they're the third leg of the

00:17:03.340 stool we have the legislative branch of government we have the executive branch of government and we

00:17:08.140 have the judicial branch of government and they're to perform checks and balances and what's happened

00:17:13.020 with this mootness ruling is the federal court is checked out and that doesn't make the stool more

00:17:18.440 stable. I've remarked on this on the program in the past but when in 2019 the Leaders Debates

00:17:25.460 Commission banned True North and Rebel from covering the debate we filed a case for an

00:17:30.620 injunction we won and our longer term case was dismissed as moot and then in 2021 the Leaders

00:17:37.120 Debates Commission does the exact same thing with Rebel. Rebel goes and files another case

00:17:42.880 wins again so as a matter of practicality when there is a significant risk that something like

00:17:48.780 this is going to happen again I think it should be heard but as you've mentioned even if we knew

00:17:52.600 that the mandates were done forever which I wish we could take for granted but we can't this was

00:17:57.880 such a significant breach of Canadians rights that it should absolutely have a declaration on record

00:18:05.180 that it was unconstitutional and I hope that appeal is successful Keith I do just going back

00:18:11.740 very briefly before we let you go to the Public Order Emergency Commission. This week, we're

00:18:16.620 hearing a bit more from police. I just got the list of expected witnesses for tomorrow. We've got

00:18:22.160 Russell Lucas from the Ottawa Police Service, Marcel Baudin from the OPP, Robert Drummond from

00:18:28.080 the Ottawa Police Service. Are we expecting more of what we've been hearing? Or do you think that

00:18:33.100 from law enforcement, there's still a little bit that could come out that might qualify as a

00:18:37.660 bombshell or a smoking gun to use the popular lingo uh there could be some bombshells in the

00:18:43.560 sense of contradicting uh early test earlier testimony from some of the other police officials

00:18:48.440 but i think we're going to see more of the same you know that i was um along with tom razo and

00:18:54.400 eva chipiak we were the ones that there's been a lot of evidence about the negotiations that

00:18:59.360 occurred at city hall and we were the ones in the room and um um we were we we just about had a big

00:19:09.640 success in the early days at sussex and rodeau which was a really tough intersection uh to deal

00:19:14.460 with um given the nature of the people who are protesting there and then we negotiated with the

00:19:20.620 help of former chief of staff to premier ford dean french the umbrella deal to actually de-escalate

00:19:27.700 the entire thing just before the invocation of the emergencies act and one of the things that's

00:19:33.080 occurring to us sitting there as eva and i and tom are listening to this testimony in real time is

00:19:38.620 that you know we know exactly now why these deals didn't ultimately be successfully implemented

00:19:44.120 it was due completely to policing competence like they just lacked the basic communication

00:19:50.740 competency to place the police in the right places and remove them from other places to allow the

00:19:58.700 deal to be implemented. We were constantly blocked by the police and seeing their handwritten notes

00:20:04.300 from the chief's meetings about knowing about the deal and the instructions and their frustration

00:20:09.220 with the communication not getting through. It's just remarkable in a very disturbing way the level

00:20:15.860 of incompetency of the police that's been revealed and i think well i'm pretty confident you're going

00:20:22.820 to see even more to come and this is many things but a national emergency it is not

00:20:30.340 it's a national embarrassment and that's not a reason to invoke the emergencies act keith wilson

00:20:36.180 i know you are plugging away daily in ottawa and we'll be sure to have you back as long as

00:20:40.980 as long as you can spare some time outside of the hearing room and also your colleague

00:20:44.740 eva chipiuk is welcome back anytime thanks so much sir always good to talk to you thank you

00:20:49.760 that was keith wilson the eminent barrister representing a lot of the members of the convoy

00:20:56.920 protest although as you just heard earlier not testifying or not appearing as a council of record

00:21:02.420 because he may be appearing as a witness instead which i very very much look forward to if that

00:21:08.900 happens as we expect it may in the weeks ahead here the question i asked at the beginning is

00:21:13.880 what on earth is Doug Ford afraid of? Because we've had, I mean, there are low-level bureaucrats

00:21:18.960 that are testifying. We've had city councillors. We've had Ottawa business representatives.

00:21:23.360 We've had a public servant that didn't like the sounds of horns honking that was testifying. Why

00:21:29.240 is Ontario Premier Doug Ford, who has been, to my knowledge, the only premier to be enthusiastically

00:21:36.020 in favor of the emergencies act why is he willing to go to court to protect himself from having to

00:21:44.420 appear to defend a piece of legislation that he supports that is going to be the key question

00:21:52.060 here now this as i mentioned it has become a bit of a subplot taking place outside of the commission

00:21:58.120 but doug ford initially last week said oh no they haven't asked me that's why i'm there

00:22:02.680 leaving the implication that he would go if they were to ask him so the commission and I don't know

00:22:07.680 what date said okay well let's ask him they asked him they asked him and he has not appeared in that

00:22:16.060 time and I want to pull up the exact wording that the commission used in its letter here because I

00:22:22.760 think it's actually quite important and I've like I just like had it like five tabs ago so I'll pull

00:22:27.160 that up in a second but what the commission said in its letter was that we've asked you

00:22:31.500 and now we're issuing a summons and that I think was so key so they said we asked you and you said

00:22:38.000 no so this means that Doug Ford was saying something that was patently untrue or maybe

00:22:43.940 this all was just a little misunderstanding that took place in the days since but one thing is for

00:22:48.760 sure he doesn't want to go and I don't know why that is if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't

00:22:52.880 be afraid to go under oath and defend this thing and as an Ontario voter and by the way an Ontario

00:22:59.620 citizen who stood as a candidate for Doug Ford's progressive conservatives in 2018 it is absolutely

00:23:07.460 shameful shameful that this man who calls himself a premier for the people is standing up and

00:23:14.000 standing by his own words shoulder to shoulder with Justin Trudeau on this heavy-handed crackdown

00:23:21.700 that suspended civil liberties all done to protect the narrative around a mandate that in and of

00:23:30.320 itself suspended people's rights and Doug Ford decides that this is how he wants to score his

00:23:36.360 brownie points with Justin Trudeau by standing shoulder to shoulder. It is absolutely shameful

00:23:41.900 and it's despicable that he is now too afraid to take a stand before the Public Order Emergency

00:23:46.760 Commission under oath and defend why it is exactly that Ontario supported that when Ontario didn't

00:23:52.660 need it to deal with the Windsor blockade which was widely regarded as being far more disruptive

00:23:58.600 than anything happening in Ottawa. I want to just before we close things out here talk about a few

00:24:04.540 more of the updates that have come out of the commission today. Obviously there have been a

00:24:10.820 number a number of revelations from interim police chief Steve Bell who we just learned the other day

00:24:16.600 is not going to be the permanent police chief so Ottawa has hired someone else but I want to play

00:24:22.760 one clip here where Steve Bell says that he had no knowledge of how police how his police officers

00:24:31.880 were dealing with the arrests of protesters and because Ottawa police and the OPP all of the

00:24:37.680 stakeholders involved they were doing this catch and release type thing just to get people out of

00:24:42.220 the core. But listen to Steve Bell say, well, you know, all of a sudden we had a plan. We knew what

00:24:47.260 was going on. But on this, oh, I had no idea what was happening. So you're going to hear evidence

00:24:54.800 eventually from some of the protesters when they eventually testify that some of the ones that

00:25:00.700 were arrested upon their release, they were essentially kidnapped by OPS officers, driven

00:25:05.640 out of town in the middle of February winter by OPS officers and left in various rural areas and

00:25:11.520 parking lots outside of town with no shelter or resources.

00:25:14.880 Are you aware of that?

00:25:17.400 No, because I don't know the specifics of what they're speaking about.

00:25:21.420 What I do know is that we, as part of our planning, and Inspector Lucas

00:25:26.440 Tamura will be able to provide more details, but we did have remote

00:25:30.500 arrest processing sites, not in rural Ottawa, in the south end of Ottawa,

00:25:35.880 in a residential mixed commercial area

00:25:40.100 where they were protested and then released

00:25:43.780 to be able to find transportation to wherever they needed to go,

00:25:48.000 which is common with the police.

00:25:51.500 Right.

00:25:51.920 So one of the areas, there was several, as I understand,

00:25:54.940 one of them was a municipal parking lot

00:25:56.840 where the trucks were being towed to.

00:25:59.020 That's correct.

00:25:59.640 That's in the South End.

00:26:00.660 Right.

00:26:00.820 And that parking lot doesn't have a building you drop them off at.

00:26:05.540 It doesn't have a phone.

00:26:07.080 It doesn't have any of that, does it?

00:26:09.980 So I don't know what the logistics at the building were.

00:26:14.240 I would imagine it would have needed to have a phone

00:26:16.680 because you have to be able to call your lawyer.

00:26:18.880 Well, I can tell you it didn't.

00:26:20.360 And these people driven out there,

00:26:22.360 they were already told they weren't charged,

00:26:24.740 and they weren't being charged, they were being released.

00:26:27.740 But they were driven and forced outside of Ottawa

00:26:32.300 or in the outer skirts and dropped off in the snow.

00:26:35.540 now are you aware this happened yes or no no i'm not aware and it wasn't outside of ottawa

00:26:40.900 still within the geographical boundaries of the city of ottawa

00:26:43.640 oh well what's in the geographical boundaries of the city so that that's fake news yeah well

00:26:50.600 you know like yeah three inches within the city limits we dump you in a patch of snow

00:26:54.480 and take your phone and all of that and well bob's your uncle everything's supposed to be fine

00:26:58.960 uh that letter that i referenced a moment ago i want to read a bit of here because it's from

00:27:04.200 the co-lead counsel Shantona Chowdhury for the Public Order Emergency Commission she writes the

00:27:10.220 information gathered by Commission Council in the course of the investigation made clear

00:27:14.780 that Premier Ford and Minister Jones would have evidence particularly within their knowledge that

00:27:20.380 would be relevant to the Commission's mandate. On September 19th 2022 Commission Council requested

00:27:28.540 an interview with them this request was refused commission council renewed this request multiple

00:27:35.340 times all requests were refused commission council then requested that premier ford and minister

00:27:41.500 jones agree to testify before the commission voluntarily as of last week the invitation to

00:27:47.340 attend to testify before the commission has been declined for the moment it is our hope

00:27:54.380 that it was our hope that premier ford and minister jones would agree to appear before

00:27:58.140 the commission voluntarily however given that the repeated invitations were all declined the

00:28:02.940 commission has issued summons this day to premier ford and minister jones pursuant to section four

00:28:08.300 of the inquiries act the commission thanks you for your request and your continued participation in

00:28:13.500 this inquiry so when doug ford said last week that no one had asked him that was fundamentally

00:28:19.660 untrue the commission says on september 19th they first asked him and have repeated and renewed that

00:28:25.260 request multiple times so i go back to what is it that doug ford is so afraid of in appearing before

00:28:34.460 this commission and i'm so challenged by how people are looking at this and coming out with

00:28:41.580 the conclusion that the emergencies act was justified police incompetence government

00:28:45.820 incompetence bureaucratic incompetence and jockeying for position between levels of

00:28:50.460 government does not constitute in the least a national emergency and a lot of the narratives

00:28:56.460 even that were put up to support this idea of violence have shattered for example there was

00:29:01.900 a rumor and i think it was reported in media early on of some threat against rito hall well

00:29:07.420 interim chief steve bell said that didn't actually happen somebody sent um information to the former

00:29:16.860 chief directly. Somebody wrote, I lay awake tonight as I read Twitter posts from the extreme

00:29:24.640 right vowing attacks on Rideau Hall this weekend. Some are calling for action akin to the happenings

00:29:30.740 in Washington on Capitol Hill. I understand the right to peaceful protest, but I'm writing as a

00:29:35.640 very concerned citizen as we're not hearing any reassurances from the city of policing

00:29:40.360 regarding the safety of residents surrounding these vulnerable and targeted spots.

00:29:45.940 There was national security representatives, including CSIS and the RCMP, in our joint intelligence group.

00:29:53.220 So, again, this was information that was taken in, assessed, evaluated, put towards our threat assessment.

00:30:03.160 And ultimately, this didn't bear out to be accurate.

00:30:07.900 There was no threats made against Rideau Hall.

00:30:13.400 Weird.

00:30:14.000 So that might have just been some of that misinformation we need to get to the bottom of.

00:30:18.260 No threats against Rideau Hall, just like there was no attempted arson by anyone connected to the convoy,

00:30:24.120 just like police exonerated convoy participants from the issue that happened at the Cenotaph early on with a woman dancing and so on.

00:30:31.740 But it's that old line about how a lie makes its way around the world.

00:30:35.300 I don't know what the original quote was, however many times, well, the truth is still putting its pants on.

00:30:40.520 I am not going to subject you to eight hours of Steve Bell because if you wanted eight hours of

00:30:45.020 Steve Bell, you could have watched today's hearings before the Public Order Emergency

00:30:48.980 Commission. But what I am going to talk about right now is the importance of language. Now,

00:30:55.020 police officers, and I have some in my family, are normally very precise about language because in

00:31:00.360 law, words mean things and words are defined in very particular ways. So Steve Bell was talking

00:31:07.980 about violence the violence that people in the convoy world that were living in Ottawa not part

00:31:15.120 of the convoy violence they were being subjected to and again we've heard reports from OPP intelligence

00:31:20.780 that violence wasn't actually taking place we didn't see from Ottawa police charges of violence

00:31:25.820 by and large so what is what where is this violence coming from if you're going to make a

00:31:30.180 drive-by comment like that what is it you actually mean well turns out Steve Bell has redefined what

00:31:37.020 violence means. So is it fair to say that when you use the phrase violence you're not actually

00:31:43.280 describing any form of physical assaults are you? I'm well physical assaults do contribute to what

00:31:50.100 I'm describing. I was specifically describing the violence that our community felt as a result of

00:31:56.240 the culmination of actions that the occupiers engaged in. So the violence that they felt not

00:32:02.440 actual violence is that what you're saying that is correct not not the criminal code definition

00:32:07.640 of violence but the violence that they felt by having an incessant horns blared right and having

00:32:12.760 trucks run 24 7 a day right by having people intimidate them and follow them and by having

00:32:19.640 people rip masks off their head by feeling sheltered in their homes well i i thank you i

00:32:24.840 understand what you mean but you're not talking about violence under section two of the cesus act

00:32:29.800 are you no I'm not thanks the the violence so he's talking about microaggressions now the violence

00:32:41.460 you feel it's like you know the violence grows from the heart outward to merge that with Justin

00:32:46.980 Trudeau the violence you feel so it's you could go to police and I would imagine if you were to call

00:32:53.240 up a 911 in Ottawa and say you know I feel murdered they'd be like well hang on a minute

00:32:59.700 if you you're making the call i don't think you were murdered no no i feel murdered i i feel like

00:33:05.000 someone has killed me okay i feel like my car was broken into was your car broken into no no but i

00:33:12.340 feel like i feel just like collectively the world around me has made it feel like that and then he

00:33:18.240 says no no i don't mean violence in the criminal code sense he certainly didn't mean violence in

00:33:23.920 the section two of the ceases accents he means the collective feeling of violence so take from

00:33:31.200 that what you will but we are just redefining words left right and center i will say good news

00:33:37.580 he didn't get anyone to have to translate that he was able to explain what his definition of

00:33:42.620 violence was in england so take that counselor matthew flurry i'm just going to take a step

00:33:48.700 side step away from the public order emergency commission here which we will certainly revisit

00:33:53.560 on the next program this week and i want to talk a little bit about alberta politics because it was

00:33:58.920 busy over the weekend when danielle smith premier danielle smith came out swinging

00:34:04.640 at the united conservative party agm and at this event she took a very firm and decisive position

00:34:12.420 to lay out her sovereignty act which she says will be ready by the time she takes her seat

00:34:18.260 after winning a by-election in brooks medicine hat but i want to play this clip which has gotten

00:34:23.380 like hundreds of thousands of views online even from other parts of the world who i don't even

00:34:29.220 know if they know what an alberta is or a sovereignty act is but are nonetheless inspired

00:34:34.180 by this message against the ottawa elites there can be no doubt that the current ndp

00:34:41.460 liberal alliance is just the latest in a long line of ottawa governments that have frustrated

00:34:48.420 the legitimate aspirations of hard-working Albertans.

00:34:52.400 That stops now.

00:34:54.140 When Ottawa announces policies and laws that attack our economy

00:34:57.860 or violate the rights of our people,

00:34:59.840 or when Ottawa seeks to take control of our sovereign areas of provincial jurisdiction,

00:35:06.500 our UCP government will not enforce those laws and policies in this province, period.

00:35:18.420 And let me be very clear.

00:35:46.140 I will never, ever apologize for standing up for the people of Alberta and the province that I serve.

00:35:58.500 So, we will pass the Sovereignty Act.

00:36:01.480 Work has already begun on crafting it.

00:36:03.600 We worked on it earlier this week at the caucus retreat.

00:36:06.520 We still have further work to do, but I've asked for it to be ready by the time I take my seat in the legislature.

00:36:11.000 We will then introduce it, and we will pass it, and we will use it to push Ottawa back into its own lane every single time that they step out of line and intrude on our constitutional rights.

00:36:22.720 Alberta will no longer ask permission from Ottawa to be prosperous and free.

00:36:34.040 Preach it, Premier, preach it.

00:36:36.360 And I will say on that that one of, like, the most bizarre law enforcement,

00:36:41.000 of Danielle Smith, if I can use that word, was from comedian Rob Schneider, who like retweeted

00:36:47.180 my tweet of that video and talked about how Danielle Smith is a real leader. And I was just

00:36:52.360 imagining Rob Schneider and a bunch of his movies just going like, you know, Danielle Smith, you can

00:36:56.120 do it. That was Rob Schneider to Alberta Premier Danielle Smith over the weekend. And it didn't

00:37:02.000 stop there. She did a press conference after and said something that I'm not sure any politician 0.98

00:37:08.040 has ever said when asked by a Rebel News journalist when she would apologize

00:37:12.840 to the unvaccinated for the discrimination they faced at the hands of Alberta's government.

00:37:20.880 A lot of the fines that were delivered were administrative fines that came out of Alberta

00:37:25.160 Health Services so I beg to differ. It was a political decision to throw all the Charter

00:37:30.000 of Rights and Freedoms and to put those fines in place in the first place and I think it can be a

00:37:33.280 political decision to make amends and apologize for it and eliminate them but I'm getting us

00:37:37.560 some legal advice on that. That was unfortunately not the right clip we'll try to get the right

00:37:45.000 clip pulled up in just a couple of moments time here but the reason I think this is important 0.99

00:37:50.320 to talk about is because Danielle Smith is coming in and she's got a very short runway here a very 0.99

00:37:56.400 short runway in which she can deal with the media attacks against her which are somewhat relentless 0.99

00:38:03.020 And in fact, I'd say no somewhat about it. 1.00

00:38:04.680 They are relentless and actually rebrand herself in the eyes of Alberta voters with an election 1.00

00:38:11.680 coming up next May.

00:38:13.220 So she does not have a lot of time, especially if you take into consideration that she'll

00:38:17.360 be taking her seat in the legislature probably by the end of November, early December at

00:38:24.040 the earliest here. 0.96

00:38:25.960 She's going to have a very limited window before legislature rises for Christmas. 0.99

00:38:30.660 and then she's going to have a bit of a break

00:38:33.400 and then she's going to have only really 0.96

00:38:35.260 four maybe five months total I think 0.96

00:38:38.960 of time in the legislature 0.98

00:38:40.960 before she's in campaign mode

00:38:42.960 and I think that's very important

00:38:44.460 but she is coming out of the gate swinging

00:38:46.720 she has not done this pivot 0.88

00:38:49.020 that we hear about from people

00:38:50.360 where they run for the leadership a certain way

00:38:52.940 and then once they win the leadership

00:38:54.200 they immediately pivot to something else

00:38:56.060 Aaron O'Toole did it in 2020

00:38:58.300 Andrew Scheer did it in 2017

00:39:00.560 And I think that is in and of itself the really important part of this divide,

00:39:08.320 that she is being as authentic as she is now.

00:39:12.660 She was in the leadership.

00:39:14.380 So I think we have the right clip now. 0.97

00:39:16.400 This is Danielle Smith on apologizing to the unvaccinated. 0.98

00:39:21.520 Hi, Ms. Smith.

00:39:22.600 Sleek Ellis with Rebel News.

00:39:23.900 During your campaign, you said that not only would you issue an apology

00:39:26.920 to those prosecuted during COVID restrictions,

00:39:29.220 but you would also grant them amnesty. When can we expect those apologies?

00:39:33.560 I can apologize right now. I'm deeply sorry for anyone who was inappropriately subjected

00:39:41.840 to discrimination as a result of their vaccine status. I'm deeply sorry for any government

00:39:48.400 employee that was fired from their job because of their vaccine status, and I welcome them 1.00

00:39:53.460 back if they want to come back. As for the amnesty, I have to get some legal advice on 1.00

00:39:58.380 So I've already asked my staff to request that advice so I can see how we would be able to proceed on that.

00:40:06.380 My view has been that these were political decisions that were made,

00:40:10.380 and so I think that they could be political decisions to offer a reversal.

00:40:14.380 But I do want to get some legal advice on that first.

00:40:17.380 Would that also have to do with the timeline for the proposed amnesty?

00:40:20.380 I would have to see. If I can do it, I would do it at the earliest opportunity.

00:40:25.380 So that was a clip courtesy of our friends over at Rebel News on the spot says yes I am going to issue us Premier of Alberta an apology to the unvaccinated for what they have suffered and again that was a very clear position that she took and I think it was a very important one and I think there's a reason that has done as well globally so well online.

00:40:55.160 Now, obviously, she's not after Rob Schneider's votes, unless Rob Schneider has some property in Grand Prairie I don't know about, but she is after the votes of ordinary Albertans that were put in an incredibly difficult situation by their government, which was so far unflinching in defending these mandates, even when they had previously said they would never, ever happen.

00:41:16.140 And Danielle Smith also said that despite that comment that the Calgary Herald reported on from her new health minister, Jason Copping, mandates and restrictions are not coming back for COVID.

00:41:26.920 We are moving beyond that, and I think that is a very clear message that Albertans needed to hear.

00:41:32.080 So I hope you'll forgive the little dalliance away from the Public Order Emergency Commission, but it was too big to not talk about, and I think this is what we'll do.

00:41:39.660 We'll spend most of the shows dealing with the Public Order Emergency Commission and then as other things come up that tie in or maybe they don't tie in, we'll bring them in and we'll try to do a well-rounded show for you.

00:41:50.280 But truly, I want to just say thank you to all of you who have been supporters of me, supporters of True North, not just throughout the last few weeks and months, but throughout the Freedom Convoy, throughout the last federal elections, whether you joined us four years ago or you joined us four minutes ago in the middle of this show.

00:42:06.200 I thank you so much for it. Please do. If you want to see more of this, head on over to donate.tnc.news

00:42:12.760 and you can make a one-time donation. You can sign up for a recurring donation and you can

00:42:17.860 keep the lights on, which is sometimes in this studio literal, not figurative. If the lights go

00:42:22.480 out midway through, I'm immediately pivoting to a fundraising pitch. But these ones we just got,

00:42:27.080 so I think we're good for a few months anyway. But to all of you, have a great day. Thank you

00:42:31.800 so much for tuning in. We'll talk to you on Wednesday with more of Canada's Most Irreverent

00:42:36.300 Talk Show. Thank you, God bless, and good day to you all. Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton

00:42:42.580 Show. Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

Juno News - October 24, 2022

Why is Doug Ford so afraid of testifying before Emergencies Act commission？

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