Juno News - Wildrose Independence Party says Albertans need a new deal with Canada

00:00:00.000 Last week, I spent a bit of time talking about the carbon tax

00:00:14.180 and the Supreme Court's decision that the carbon tax is unconstitutional.

00:00:17.880 And one point I raised in that discussion was Western alienation.

00:00:22.160 Because the Alberta Court of Appeal found that the carbon tax was unconstitutional,

00:00:26.820 Jason Kenney has been a very fierce opponent of the carbon tax,

00:00:30.720 arguing that Alberta can look after itself, not just in this area, but in many others.

00:00:35.400 One of the folks who has stepped up to the plate at the provincial level to drive these discussions is Paul Hinman.

00:00:41.200 He is the interim leader of the Wild Rose Independence Party,

00:00:44.920 formerly a leader of the original Wild Rose Alliance before it merged with the PCs

00:00:49.740 to become the new United Conservative Party.

00:00:52.040 But Paul Hinman has been trying to put forward a strong provincial-led and Alberta-led agenda

00:00:58.380 that would drive a lot of these issues that Albertans are concerned about.

00:01:02.140 This is my chat with Paul Hinman.

00:01:04.520 When we spoke last time, it was in the summer at the last Freedom Talk,

00:01:07.740 and we had just come off the Fair Deal panel, which I think gave some people some encouragement,

00:01:13.080 although, as we heard from MLA Drew Barnes, not quite far enough to what a lot of people were saying.

00:01:18.900 We fast-forward to now, we're closer to this referendum that's been promised.

00:01:24.400 Where do you think the dialogue really is on independence?

00:01:27.740 Where do you think it's going?

00:01:28.720 Do you think it's moving in a good direction or a bad one?

00:01:31.220 Well, I think with COVID and the complications that that's happened,

00:01:35.160 we see the federal interference and the importance of a provincial government

00:01:39.540 that will stand up for the rights and the freedoms of Albertans.

00:01:42.120 But it's quite obvious that Kenney is in cahoots or part of the federal idea and the global idea right now

00:01:51.120 that this is a terrible, vicious virus that's killing people, which it isn't.

00:01:56.840 And again, so Albertans are very frustrated and hurt, especially in rural Alberta,

00:02:01.980 and wanting the government to stand up for them and to end the lockdown.

00:02:05.140 When you're a, I don't want to say a single-issue party,

00:02:08.460 but when you're a party that's structured primarily around the idea of getting a better deal for Alberta,

00:02:13.920 and you have all of these issues that are coming up, like lockdowns, like health care spending,

00:02:19.000 like just general day-to-day government,

00:02:21.100 how important is it for you, if at all, to stay focused on that independence movement?

00:02:26.000 Or do you find you have to veer into all of these different areas,

00:02:28.480 when now the culture has moved to one where lockdowns need to be the pressing political discussion?

00:02:32.780 I think that what we really need to offer is real answers for Albertans,

00:02:37.500 that they need good government.

00:02:39.120 They need a better health care system.

00:02:41.340 They need our education system.

00:02:45.920 Government is failing Albertans in so many aspects right now.

00:02:49.660 And again, too often it's about a right or a left issue.

00:02:52.680 But having a good health care system isn't right or left.

00:02:55.640 That's just good governance, and it's having a proper system in place, which we don't have.

00:02:59.880 And probably COVID has shone the light on that more than anything,

00:03:05.220 because all we hear the Premier say is that we've got to protect our health care system.

00:03:09.220 It's not about protecting Albertans.

00:03:11.020 It's not about protecting the education.

00:03:12.880 It's about protecting the health care system.

00:03:14.840 Why?

00:03:15.320 Because it's a failing system.

00:03:16.600 It's not robust enough.

00:03:17.720 He could have had a whole year that he could have been building more senior care facilities.

00:03:21.480 He could have been training more nurses.

00:03:23.320 He could have been bringing in equipment, buying field tents, if that's what it is.

00:03:27.020 But the fact of the matter is our health care system has been at 100% for 20 years.

00:03:32.760 And so they say we can't afford to have anybody sick because we don't have the capacity.

00:03:36.400 We've had a year and billions of dollars spent and no capacity.

00:03:41.380 It's as pathetic now as it was a year ago.

00:03:44.720 Only the people are worn out and exhausted because of the way they're operating the system.

00:03:50.860 I spoke with Premier Kenney in December, and he had said in that interview and in other public fora

00:03:56.760 that he was quite proud of Alberta not going full lockdown like other provinces

00:04:01.560 and having what he characterizes as relatively laxer restrictions compared to other jurisdictions.

00:04:08.940 Do you think there is any credit due there?

00:04:11.660 No.

00:04:11.960 Okay, well, that was clear.

00:04:14.060 That was clear, but why not?

00:04:15.080 Well, because, you know, this is the problem in why a government needs to protect individuals.

00:04:19.800 For him to use numbers.

00:04:21.800 If you own a gym and you put your life's work into that, and you're told that you can't open that gym,

00:04:28.220 have you done a good job?

00:04:29.460 Has he protected the interest?

00:04:30.820 I mean, he said in December 11th that I was wrong to pick winners and losers.

00:04:35.200 It's not the government's job to say these are essential services and these aren't,

00:04:40.220 especially when you see what he picked is even more disgusting.

00:04:44.160 And so, no, if you're failing, whether it's 2% or 15% because of partisan politics,

00:04:50.600 that's a failure in my books.

00:04:52.380 And there's way too many people that have been personally affected on this,

00:04:56.300 and he can look at the numbers and say it's okay, but it's not.

00:04:59.260 If you actually have a just society, we don't pick winners and losers and say,

00:05:05.420 well, we're all in this together, but, Andrew, you're the one who has to sacrifice.

00:05:09.940 That's not right.

00:05:11.920 The former Wild Rose Alliance and Wild Rose Party had positioned itself to the right of the PCs.

00:05:17.460 I think the way that the Wild Rose Independence Party now is characterized is to the right of the UCP.

00:05:23.860 I want to ask you if that's a reasonable characterization,

00:05:26.500 because I would say that independence itself, just like you said about a good health care system,

00:05:31.720 is not a left-right issue.

00:05:33.280 And, you know, there are people on the far left that might be very thrilled to say,

00:05:37.480 yeah, we want to be able to have more socialism in Alberta or something like that.

00:05:41.480 Do you find that there is a coalition that's spanning traditional political identity,

00:05:46.280 or is this still a conservative movement?

00:05:48.720 I want to say as it continues to grow and people see government interference,

00:05:55.280 and like for me, when you talk about the left or the right, it's more do you want big government

00:05:59.920 or do you want individual responsibility?

00:06:03.520 And there's always those that are looking at big government,

00:06:06.100 but we can look and even see here in Alberta, you know, centralized health care has failed.

00:06:11.100 Centralized education system is not giving our children the education system they could have.

00:06:16.560 And so when you're actually talking and looking about individuals, it's not left or right.

00:06:21.740 This is about good government.

00:06:23.040 This is taking the taxpayers' money and using it in a prudent way

00:06:28.400 that we actually see the cost-benefit analysis

00:06:31.000 and understand that this is going to be a better system.

00:06:34.280 But what we see right now is just a growth of government

00:06:37.620 and public services that seem to be shrinking,

00:06:41.580 but government's growing and management's growing and we're managing the managers.

00:06:45.220 And so, no, I don't really think it's so much as the left is the right as it is,

00:06:49.820 is that, you know, if we use taxpayers' money well,

00:06:52.280 if we have the, how would you say it,

00:06:56.000 the structure of health care and education to the benefit of every Albertan,

00:07:02.620 that's where we can go.

00:07:04.640 If the economy is booming, our education, our health care, our senior care,

00:07:09.220 all of that will be improving.

00:07:10.640 And so it's about, to me, it's kind of like an airplane.

00:07:14.020 You've got your right wing, you've got your left wing.

00:07:16.100 The right wing's your economy, the left wing's your social programs,

00:07:19.000 and they balance out.

00:07:20.020 As government, we spend what we bring in and we can sort the new heights if we keep it balanced.

00:07:25.860 But when you're running deficits,

00:07:27.600 when you're, you know, doing all of this crazy stuff with the economy

00:07:31.020 and shutting down different areas,

00:07:33.100 it's just a matter of when the right wing's failing,

00:07:35.800 we're going to go into a death spiral.

00:07:38.000 And again, the social services are just eating up everything and undermining our future.

00:07:44.020 Yeah, I mean, and I get that,

00:07:45.260 that you don't want to view it entirely as left versus right,

00:07:48.260 but you know politics and you know political coalitions.

00:07:50.860 So I guess the better way to ask it is,

00:07:53.080 do you see support,

00:07:54.300 and I know you're leading a young party relatively,

00:07:56.540 but do you see support as coming from disenfranchised UCP voters,

00:08:00.080 or do you also see people that have historically voted for the NDP,

00:08:03.760 for the Liberal, for the Alberta party?

00:08:05.900 Do you see them as joining this?

00:08:07.980 And if not, I guess the extension of that is,

00:08:10.380 if not, how will this not just be,

00:08:12.580 in effect, splitting the UCP vote come the next election?

00:08:16.660 Well, that's an excellent question, Andrew.

00:08:18.600 And I guess I'd have to say,

00:08:19.960 is the question is, is splitting the vote,

00:08:22.500 are you standing up for Alberta,

00:08:24.440 or are you standing up for Ottawa?

00:08:26.180 And when you look at the NDP and the UCP,

00:08:29.980 they're very much standing with Ottawa.

00:08:31.520 And what we're actually doing is standing up for Alberta.

00:08:35.100 And yes, the majority of people that are supporting us

00:08:39.300 are people that have conservative principles

00:08:41.460 and realize that the proper role of government,

00:08:44.480 they want more freedoms,

00:08:45.760 they want their individual rights protected,

00:08:48.140 they want property rights protected.

00:08:50.140 I mean, Jason and Rachel are the same way.

00:08:52.620 They haven't said anything about, you know,

00:08:54.540 the order and counsel on the gun grab.

00:08:56.200 People want a province that's actually going to stand up

00:09:02.000 for their property rights, stand up for their freedoms.

00:09:04.220 And when it comes to COVID and the property, all those things,

00:09:06.600 these two previous governments are failing Albertans.

00:09:10.380 But yes, it's conservative principles that we're based on.

00:09:14.000 Maxime Bernier had mentioned something in his remarks this weekend

00:09:17.080 that I found quite interesting,

00:09:18.640 which was that the solution to this issue

00:09:20.960 is not going to come from a federal party

00:09:23.080 with an Alberta focus, but rather a provincial party

00:09:25.940 with an Alberta focus.

00:09:27.400 And he was, of course, taking a very direct swipe

00:09:29.260 at the Maverick Party,

00:09:30.180 which has been established at the federal level.

00:09:32.280 And I was curious for your thoughts,

00:09:33.400 because you're going the provincial route.

00:09:35.100 You've been a provincial MLA.

00:09:36.280 You're leading now a provincial party.

00:09:38.620 Why is this something that can't be addressed

00:09:42.120 in the way that the Maverick Party is trying to

00:09:44.580 by being a federal party pushing an Alberta first mandate?

00:09:47.920 Well, the question is, do you just want to be a roadblock

00:09:50.800 or do you actually want to see change?

00:09:53.520 And just with the Maverick Party,

00:09:55.780 their limitations are is that they're just going out there

00:09:58.520 to be able to speak up for us.

00:10:00.740 But whether we have zero people speaking up for us

00:10:04.000 or 20% under our Constitution,

00:10:07.060 the way things are, it makes no difference

00:10:08.680 because it's the voting that counts.

00:10:10.800 And whether, you know, Maxine did an excellent job

00:10:12.920 on the Triple E Senate.

00:10:14.260 Okay, we're only represented at 6% in the Senate,

00:10:17.940 so it doesn't work for us.

00:10:19.140 If we have equal Senate, we're going to get 10% or 11%.

00:10:23.680 It's still a minority.

00:10:24.940 Still 90% against you, yes.

00:10:26.800 And again, it goes back to a referendum, you know.

00:10:29.060 It doesn't matter whether you get 9% or 49%.

00:10:31.800 You've failed.

00:10:33.420 And so with Max...

00:10:34.380 Yeah, the old line from my dad is that

00:10:35.700 close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades.

00:10:37.180 Hand grenades, yes.

00:10:38.040 And 10% isn't even close.

00:10:40.120 No.

00:10:40.600 And again, what Maxine is offering, though,

00:10:42.660 is a solution to radically decentralize Canada,

00:10:46.300 which needs to be done.

00:10:47.840 You know, central government doesn't work.

00:10:49.440 And what Ontario or Quebec wants

00:10:51.280 isn't what Alberta wants or needs. 0.80

00:10:53.580 And it's the same.

00:10:54.520 And so, no, I totally agree with Maxine

00:10:57.100 and the principles that he is governing on

00:11:00.460 and offering to Canadians, those will work.

00:11:03.520 It's a solution.

00:11:04.940 The Wild Rose Independence Party, like, we have solutions.

00:11:08.120 You know, we have a major problem

00:11:09.400 with the police force in rural Alberta.

00:11:11.720 RCMP are not able to accomplish what we need.

00:11:14.960 We need to have our own police force

00:11:16.560 with civilian oversight.

00:11:18.220 You know, the pension plan is not working for Albertans.

00:11:22.120 It's costing us money.

00:11:23.500 We could actually enhance the benefits

00:11:25.460 and reduce the premiums

00:11:26.880 if we had a provincial one like Quebec has.

00:11:29.800 So all of these things that our current

00:11:31.560 and past governments are failing on,

00:11:33.860 and we're offering, you know,

00:11:35.360 an improved opportunity and quality of life

00:11:38.020 for Albertans with what we're proposing.

00:11:40.520 I think there's a lot of misconceptions

00:11:42.640 about what it is that the Alberta independence movement is about,

00:11:46.020 and I guess that would extend to your party.

00:11:47.520 So I have to ask you, is your party, in your view,

00:11:50.920 are you envisioning a separatist party?

00:11:53.260 Well, we're the Wild Rose Independence Party of Alberta,

00:11:56.200 and it's about independence,

00:11:57.840 and people will argue back and forth,

00:11:59.920 you know, a separatist, independent.

00:12:02.160 We're about independence.

00:12:03.620 It's about putting our house in order,

00:12:05.360 showing Albertans that, look,

00:12:06.800 this is what we can do as a government for you,

00:12:09.480 and they can see the benefits of it,

00:12:11.540 and then Albertans will get to decide in a referendum

00:12:14.000 whether they want it to be a sovereign nation

00:12:15.720 or part of Canada.

00:12:17.140 So your view is that independence and separation

00:12:19.960 are not inherently synonymous?

00:12:22.080 Well, no, like a lot of separatist parties,

00:12:24.240 and again, this is what you hear

00:12:25.280 with the Fair Deal panel and everything,

00:12:26.860 is use it as a leverage, threaten,

00:12:28.700 you know, that we're going to threaten this

00:12:31.360 if we don't get that,

00:12:32.300 and some people, if we don't,

00:12:33.240 like Jason Kenney's thing is,

00:12:34.920 is if we don't get pipelines,

00:12:36.100 we're going to have a referendum on equalization,

00:12:38.880 and what we're about is actually about

00:12:41.440 independent Alberta

00:12:44.100 that actually has control of our taxation,

00:12:47.160 has control of our environmental act,

00:12:49.240 has control on our immigration,

00:12:50.880 has control, you know,

00:12:52.340 on all aspects of our lives,

00:12:54.420 but right now the federal intrusion

00:12:55.960 is just killing Alberta, 0.67

00:12:57.640 the economy, the future, the hope, our taxation,

00:13:00.760 and so we need to be independent from Ottawa.

00:13:03.580 Interim Leader of the Wild Rose Independence Party,

00:13:06.820 Paul Hinman.

00:13:07.380 Paul, thanks very much for your time.

00:13:08.400 Thank you, Andrew.

00:13:09.520 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:13:11.700 Support the program by donating to True North

00:13:13.660 at www.tnc.news.

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Juno News - April 05, 2021

Wildrose Independence Party says Albertans need a new deal with Canada

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