Juno News - November 29, 2025Will B.C. Kill Alberta’s Pipeline Deal？
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Summary
The bad day for Stephen Guibo, the good day for David Eby, and Elizabeth May, that s a good one for Canada. It's the topic of the week, and our guest is Dr. Caroline Elliott with the BC Public Land Society.
Transcript
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The bad day for Stephen Guibo, for BC Premier David Eby, for Elizabeth May, that's a good
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day for Canada. Hi, Juno News. I'm Alexander Brown, director of the National Citizens Coalition,
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ending the week here for our show Not Sorry. Thanks for being with us. Thanks for leaving
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comments. Thanks for subscribing. And while you're here, you can take advantage of our
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promo code. That's junonews.com slash not sorry for 20% off. It's the topic of the week. This
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memorandum of understanding now signed. Guibo, he's fled the scene. He may have scaled the peace
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tower at press time. I'm not quite sure. This audience, and I want to convey this to open,
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you should take heart in the fact that it's your common sense and your lived reality that's moving
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the feds here. It's not some sudden onset benevolence. The least productive of net zero
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delusions don't rate as a pocketbook issue anymore because Canada and Canadians can't balance the
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books. We have far greater issues to chase than indulgence payments, wearing a hair shirt,
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redistributing what wealth we have left, and suffering so our fat and happy can pat themselves
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on the back and claim they're changing the world when they're only impoverishing a country.
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But concerns remain, such as is this just a temporary victory for Alberta Premier Daniel Smith?
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As I said on the Mark Patron show on Thursday, a win today could still be a loss tomorrow.
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The main certainties this memorandum provides are the immediate short-term benefits.
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Smith can carry it into this weekend's UCP annual AGM meeting like a trophy taken from the battlefield.
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Carney can use the deal to bolster his fiscal conservative image in the eyes of left liberal
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commentators. Both can enjoy a bit of a detente before the hostilities resume over project delays that
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are likely to follow. And beyond Alberta needing to raise its industrial carbon price through this
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memorandum, which our friends and allies are not, and where do we think these costs go? They get passed
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down the line. We still have a British Columbia problem in the form of David Eby, the potential for
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two or three indigenous groups in particular, throwing up a stop sign in the hopes of surely
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receiving quite the check. Even though recent Angus Reid polling has national support for an Alberta BC
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pipeline at an overwhelming majority in favor, 60%, and it's even 53% in favor to 37% opposed in BC.
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For left-leaning BC, that's, you know, that's actually quite a number. So I want you to watch Eby's
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There is not one private company that has stepped up to say, if you build it, we'll buy it.
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If the approvals are in place, we'll build it. Not one. It has no root. Currently, taxpayers through
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the Trans Mountain Pipeline Corporation are funding the development of the root. Not only does it not
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have permits, it doesn't even have a root. But the third thing it doesn't have is something that the
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Prime Minister said he believed was core in the House, in the Federal Parliament just recently,
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that First Nations agree and support projects before they will go forward through the Major Projects
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Office. And this project does not have the support of coastal First Nations. And that's important to us
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in BC because all of the projects that I outlined to you, those billions of dollars of investment,
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those thousands of jobs, depend as well on the support of coastal First Nations. We need to make sure
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that this project doesn't become an energy vampire with all of the variables that have yet to be
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fulfilled. No proponent, no root, no money, no First Nations support, that it cannot draw limited
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federal resources, limited Indigenous governance resources, limited provincial resources away from
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the real projects that will employ people, provide the country with money that we desperately need,
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and provide investment and access to global markets to deepen our trade relationships overseas.
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All complete nonsense. Every word of that was a lie. Plenty of proponents, plenty of support.
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EB doesn't have a veto. This is federal jurisdiction. But this is still a deal running on trust that is
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not yet worth the paper it's printed on. And there is every chance the federal liberals could begin to
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punt on this. I want us to be thankful for some reasons of optimism here, but they're still just
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reasons, not results. Let's talk to our friend and frequent guest, Dr. Caroline Elliott. She's our
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Left Coast correspondent. Dr. Caroline Elliott joins us. She's with the BC Public Land Use Society,
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Aristotle Foundation Without Diminishment. She's a frequent flyer here on Juno News as a Left Coast
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Common Sense correspondent. Caroline, welcome. Thanks for having me. Caroline, topic of the day,
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topic of the week. Is Alberta really getting a pipeline or being sold a pipe dream?
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Well, look, I mean, I think it's, I have to say it's a positive move. And, you know, I've been pretty
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critical of the federal government, but I recognize that they're trying to some extent to get some of
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Alberta's product moving, right? And I think it is a critical part of diversifying away from the US.
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I mean, I've been critical of the federal government for, you know, doing the whole elbows up thing,
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but being unwilling to do what it takes to move forward. But that said, I am a little bit, you know,
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we can't look at this without skepticism either. There's hurdles in the way, big ones, right? And
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one of those things, obviously, is the First Nations in the region, the Union of BC Indian
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Chiefs, the Coastal First Nations as well, an organization, as they call themselves, saying
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there's no way, like, this is not happening. And then, of course, a very reluctant premier who is
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making all kinds of strange claims about how this is going to hurt economic development instead of help
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it here in BC. So it's hard to know where to land exactly, but I do think the effort is admirable.
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Yeah, admirable, but I have the same concerns. Like on the David Eby front and problem, the potential
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indigenous band problem, you're our expert on the ground in BC. This Union of BC Indian Chiefs, they
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are loudly objecting to the MOU. There's territory involved that needs passing through. We know that
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Eby can't be trusted to play nice in Canada's interest. If BC's approval is a condition, either on
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paper or off, NDP opposition has tanked projects like the TMX expansion before until Ottawa had to
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buy it out. So how would conservatives or how should conservatives rally against this kind of
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provincial meddling to protect a national energy interest?
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Well, and this is one of these bigger questions, I think, that goes to, like, how do we actually
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make sure that the public interest is being protected when it comes to resource development
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and a whole bunch of other issues? So, you know, we have a project that the federal government has
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said is in the national interest. I think the conservatives would agree it's in the national
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interest. The liberals agree it's in the national interest. I think we can take that as a pretty firm
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sign. It is, in fact, in the national interest. But when you have these kind of small indigenous
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governments saying this is not happening and absolutely not, I think it's really going to put
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that commitment to building out in, you know, in Canada's interests, it's going to put that
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commitment to the test and whether or not they're willing to say, like, you know, we're going to
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consult. We're going to accommodate. We're going to ensure that your own interests are protected.
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But at the end of the day, you have to be able to proceed.
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Yeah. And how do we how are we or continuing to undermine ourselves where even you're seeing sort
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of Ottawa's backing off the emissions cap, but they're still demanding this big old methane cut
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from levels that are already being substantially cut beefed up carbon tax on emitters. So on the
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company side, the industry side, that's obviously going to trickle down, you know, to to costs and
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consumers, billions in joint funding for for a pathways decarbonization project from from a pro
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energy standpoint. You know, how do these mandates, these these mandates in this memorandum, how do they
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undermine our competitiveness and further stifle what should be, you know, a moment for real economic
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growth in the sector? Well, this is just it is are we tying our hands in one way and then, you know,
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saying we're proceeding in another way? And what is that balance? I mean, I would like to see just
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a government that looks around and says, actually, we just want our economy to do well. We just want
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to be able to have jobs created. We just want to have people bringing home good paychecks, all those
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good things. And and it seems like, you know, we take one step forward and two steps back in a way
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like, oh, we'll proceed with this, but we're going to be nervous about that. And, and then, of course,
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and I always go back to the province. I mean, in BC, you have have a government like their best
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arguments right now are that, oh, this is, you know, is that somehow this is going to hurt economic
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development in BC. And they're saying, oh, well, you know, it's what economic development in BC. And
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it's like, oh, it's going to cause these other projects not to happen. I'm like, first of all, which
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projects like name, which projects are not happening, because we're, we're looking at a
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different project coming out of Alberta and across across BC to the coast, like, tell us
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which ones. And so I think that they're just kind of, I'm not sure they know what to do
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with themselves. I think that they would prefer, obviously, that this didn't happen. And I think
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that's obviously a flawed policy stance in the first place.
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Now, you would think that with the province facing massive deficits, a productive version
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of its population is in exodus, healthcare is in collapse. Every week, a healthy young person
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dies in an emergency room, or, you know, doesn't get timely care. We've hits to industries like
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forestry, you know, from US tariffs, shouldn't federal incentives be able to flip EB? Like,
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what's the strategy for leveraging BC's economic woes to advance this project? Like,
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why would debt deficit and shared misery be part of some hostage taking here?
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Well, I mean, I hate to say, but that defines the NDP's policy agenda quite well for the past
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several years, and continuing today. And it's interesting to see the BC public understands that
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this is actually a good thing for BC. I think there was a poll yesterday that said 53% of British
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Columbians could get on board with the pipeline versus 37% who say no way. So that's actually a pretty,
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pretty big proportion of the population that this government just doesn't really want to listen
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to. And then there's, there's so many other layers to it to like, even just back onto the
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First Nations consent thing. You know, and we have Mark Carney and David, you'd be talking about that.
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But I want to know, and I'd love to see like consent from from who exactly? Is it every First
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Nation? Is it some? Is it? Is it a conglomerate of different First Nations who've come together to
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say yes or no? Is it hereditary chiefs? Is it elected chiefs? Because we've seen this before,
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right? With the coastal gas link project where you have every elected band council along
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that pipeline route saying, yes, this is, this is good. And then you have the hereditary chiefs
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coming forward and saying, actually, there's no way we'll never let this happen. And that led to
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the Wet'suwet'en protests and, and everything that we saw in that very kind of messy protest-filled year.
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So, like how this is going to work is like really the question that I think we need to be looking at.
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No, unfortunately, it seems like the government, like where the country is going to wear
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the problem of BC's ill-defined governance question at this point, where we have these
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indigenous bands who have been increasingly deputized. And we all, I think, believe in
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reconciliation and, and, and doing right by the relationship between our governments and,
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and indigenous communities. But whether it's the rise of a kind of reconciliation incorporated
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or land use issues coming into question, as, as you've been so prominent, you know, explaining to the
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public, these creeping concerns, it's, you know, who has the right to say yes or no coming out of
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British Columbia? Like we know that the federal government, this is their jurisdiction. It's
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interprovincial travel technically, which means it's theirs. They're the hammer. But if you go to BC
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for, for approval, there's all of a sudden like 50 cooks in the kitchen and, and none of them seem
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to represent the population who actually want to get this done. And, and 53% to 37% out here,
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I'm in BC too. Like that's actually a lot. Like that's like an Ontario 85%. We are, we have some
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kooky folks out here and, and, and God love them. But I think people need to understand that even in,
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in the left coast that folks want to get this done, but there are now so many different leaders who are
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being consulted. And, and there's just this question of like, who the heck is actually in charge?
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Totally. And I think, and, and, and the other thing that becomes very apparent when you start
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looking at it is that this government loves to profile groups that are opposed, indigenous groups
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that are opposed to resource development. And they never seem to profile the ones who are actually
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like, this can bring jobs to our community. You can bring opportunity.
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No, go to like IPSS. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's, there's some, there's some great groups doing
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wonderful things for their communities. And somehow those are never, they never seem to be the ones that
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the premier is, is, is standing with and saying, let's bring jobs and prosperity to this province.
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No, you and I have been to some of these like kind of energy galas where it's, there's, there's tons of
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people who are, who are on side with this. This is a province filled with, you know, leaders like Ellis Ross,
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who, you know, want to do right by their communities. And then there's others who want to,
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you know, maybe just get a check or, or be difficult or who do the hereditary chiefs who
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are stepping on other bands. Now, Caroline, I got a John Rustad question for you and I'm,
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and I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but seemingly to me, the BC conservatives are in turmoil at the
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absolute wrong time where my worry right now. And I, and I said this on Mark Patron's show yesterday,
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which is, there's a concern that if, if EB wants to put his back up here, he is seemingly buoyed by
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the fact that he has high polling numbers at present and that there's a chance he calls for
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a spring election. And that is not because he's doing a good job. Like this, this province isn't
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freefall. Like, you know, emergency rooms are closing overnight. Like it's an economy that doesn't grow.
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Real estate is impossible, but the BC conservatives are in a self-inflicted turmoil at present.
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Surely they need to get it together. Do they not?
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Well, they need to get it together. They absolutely do. And it is, you know, I look around at the,
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what's happening under this NDP government and you've got a failing healthcare system,
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as you've mentioned, we've got public safety disasters, you know, left, right, and center,
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horrible incidents that are hurting innocent people. We've got our soul destroying drug crisis going on.
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We've got our housing affordability issues. We've got, I mean, I'm not mentioning so many things.
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There's just so much going on. And the fact that this issue is taking up so much airtime in the media
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and so much attention within the party in the caucus is concerning because we should be holding
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David EB to account for all of this that he's doing to British Columbia. And, you know, and then,
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so, I mean, I look at that and I think there has to be, frankly, some kind of change, right? There's
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got to be a refocus on the issues that British Columbians are worried about. And we're not seeing
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that. And I don't know that this is going to go away anytime soon, but the issue I see is like
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an election in the spring could become a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Where it's like,
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it happens because David EB sees the conservatives in disarray, even as the conservatives don't necessarily
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want to make a move because it might put them into disarray before the election. You know what I
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mean? It's a chicken or egg situation. And at the end of the day, you just have to look at the numbers,
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like British Columbians, but very large numbers of them in any poll you look at think the province
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is on the wrong track. They're very worried about the future. They're very worried about their own
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security and their homes in light of a lot of this government's radical reconciliation agenda and
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other things. And those numbers are not translating into meaningful support for the conservatives. That
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sets them ahead of the NDP to the, to the extent that you would think given those wrong track numbers.
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So I think that's where people need to be looking right now.
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Yeah. And, and for our readers who aren't totally up on BC politics, and I understand our viewers,
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and I understand if they're not, because it is very confusing. I'm an Ontarian. This has been a crash
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course. It's, it's a different ecosystem out here. All of this was resonating, resonating with voters
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heading into the last provincial election in British Columbia, like the conservatives lost by a hair.
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And then there's been a ton of turnover there, a ton of internal turmoil. And in the case of Rustad,
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you know, there's even boards that want him to step down and they're just not, they're hanging on
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and their numbers are dwindling. And a group like 1BC is becoming more and more popular. And so no,
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we need to get that together. My concern is that a spring election could be framed around,
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let's be jerks about this project. Let's be jerks about Team Canada. I don't know if you saw,
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but the Victoria legislature this week, the Canadian flag is down. Like that, that big old guy is like,
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are we going back to, to defenestration and self-loathing? Like, is EB going to try to take
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his ball and go home here? And so my, my, my worry is, is, is certainly there. And thankfully,
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you've been providing good leadership for, for our audience and for common sense folks
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from BC on that front. Now, Caroline, our pal, Anthony Koch, popular conservative strategist
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and commentator in the national post, he, he's in the paper today. He's, he's with a piece calling for
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the need for a Pierre Trudeau of the right to remake Canada, arguing that you can't defeat
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charter entrenched liberalism with tax credits and the conservatism of the last decade. Plus,
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there's been a recent discussion in our sphere of late surrounding where the conservative movement
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goes from here. How does it stay young and new? How can it win federally and better influence positive
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impacts provincially? What do you make of this debate between those who were, who want to perhaps,
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let's say, continue a kind of status quo libertarian minded approach. And then those who want to work
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within, let's say a big government framework to inflict big change.
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Yeah, it's, it's such an interesting debate that's been happening. It's been fun to have been part of
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it. I know you've been part of it, Anthony, obviously, and some other folks who, who land,
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I think probably on a different side of the equation than we would. But I do think there's,
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there's absolute validity to, you know, Anthony doesn't use these words exactly in his column,
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but this idea that like, if we don't, if we don't start understanding our role,
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and the government's role in, in shaping things like culture and national identity,
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it's not the be all and end all when it comes to those things, but it's an important part of it.
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And so when you see, you know, people say, well, look, like conservatives shouldn't be talking about
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any issue that doesn't have dollar figure attached to it, you know, stick to your marginal tax cuts,
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stick to your deregulation, stick to your, you know, your, your fiscal policy, all of which,
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as I always say, these are important things are very important things. But if we don't understand that
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there's a tug of war over things like national identity, who we are as Canadians, how we see
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each other as Canadians, how we look at our past, how we plan for our future, all those big kind of
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not dollar figure questions, but almost values and principles and foundations questions.
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If we don't, if we don't look at those, I mean, the tug of war is happening.
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It's just whether or not we're pulling on our end of the rope or not, right? And we, we know how
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tug of war is work. If you, if you're not pulling on the end of your rope, you end up in the mud puddle
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No, I, I, I greatly respect and understand the just leave me alone position. I've got a lot of
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time for it. I wish that that were a winning argument and I wish that it was real, but we
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know that in a vacuum, there's always someone working against conservatives. We've seen this
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march through our institutions. We've seen our bureaucracy grow beyond belief. I think there are
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folks now in the political ecosystem. I think of the impacts of someone like Chris Ruffo who,
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in America, who understand that you kind of like fight with what you're given. It, it, we all want,
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you know, just next to no government and, you know, the trains run on time and we have emergency services
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that actually work, but you know, the state has its hand off of you, but it's, it's impactful. It's,
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it influences culture. Stephen Guibo just resigned. You know, that was a man who was funneling a ton of
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money to all these NGOs who would then give them exactly what they want on this, on this permission
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to tank every energy project and make life more expensive. And so seemingly you have to work within
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that framework. And so lots to think about there. I'm, I'm looking forward to hearing more from
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yourself on that and Caroline Elliott, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me.