Juno News - December 01, 2021


Will Conservatives ever win again in Canada?


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19 minutes

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197.5875

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3,762

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179

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As we get closer to the Christmas break, we focus a little less on news here at The Candice Malcolm Show, because frankly, there's not much new to talk about. So we like to slow down a bit, reflect on the year behind, and talk a little bit about the year ahead. In this episode, we speak to Hamish Marshall, who was the Conservative Party's National Campaign Manager in the 2019 federal election.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.040 What is the future for Conservatives in Canada? What will it take for them to win federally?
00:00:04.740 What will it take for them to maintain power in Ontario and in Alberta?
00:00:08.240 We'll speak to a pollster today to discuss. I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.
00:00:17.000 Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning in.
00:00:19.280 So as we get into December, as we get closer to the Christmas break,
00:00:22.620 we focus a little bit less on news here at The Candice Malcolm Show
00:00:25.580 because frankly there's not a lot of new news other than just the latest panic over COVID numbers or whatever.
00:00:31.940 So we like to slow down a little bit, reflect on the year behind, and talk a little bit about the year ahead.
00:00:37.880 And so to do that today, I am joined by Hamish Marshall.
00:00:40.840 Now, you might remember Hamish because he was True North's in-house pollster during the 2021 election.
00:00:46.700 It was a great pleasure to have Hamish on our team, on our staff.
00:00:49.880 He joined The Candice Malcolm Show once a week for an interview.
00:00:53.340 He did a really comprehensive guide to the writings that mattered.
00:00:58.080 He joined us for a live broadcast. It was really great to have Hamish with us.
00:01:01.760 Hamish is a partner at One Persuasion.
00:01:04.520 He was the Conservative Party's national campaign manager in the 2019 federal election,
00:01:09.020 and he ran Andrew Scheer's winning leadership campaign.
00:01:12.440 Hamish was also Prime Minister Stephen Harper's pollster
00:01:14.980 and helped the Conservatives win a majority government back in 2011.
00:01:19.340 So Hamish, thank you so much.
00:01:20.940 We've missed you on The Candice Malcolm Show, but it's great to have you back.
00:01:23.400 It's great to be back, yeah.
00:01:25.500 So let's look back at 2021.
00:01:29.260 Specifically, let's talk about the election campaign there,
00:01:31.900 because it was kind of a nothing election,
00:01:34.560 and the results were almost exactly what we had going out of it.
00:01:37.680 So I know that there weren't really a lot of highlights for most Canadians.
00:01:40.980 Most Canadians probably wish it didn't happen,
00:01:42.540 or at least wish that the $600 million bill that came with it didn't happen.
00:01:46.120 But for you, Hamish, what was sort of the highlight of that election campaign?
00:01:50.940 What was the biggest moment that sort of shaped the election,
00:01:53.400 shaped voters' minds in terms of how they voted?
00:01:55.880 Look, it was an election about expectations.
00:01:58.240 More than any other election I've ever experienced in my life,
00:02:01.480 it was an election about what people thought,
00:02:03.500 how everyone was going to do out of that election.
00:02:07.260 Trudeau called the election because he thought he could get a majority.
00:02:09.560 That's what his expectations were high.
00:02:13.040 You know, O'Toole had had very, very bad polling numbers
00:02:16.000 in the summer leading into the election.
00:02:17.460 The expectations were low for the Conservatives.
00:02:19.280 But then almost immediately it flipped.
00:02:21.160 You know, Trudeau called this election,
00:02:22.840 didn't seem to have a plan to explain why we're having an election to anybody.
00:02:26.440 And then O'Toole had a good, you know, first week, maybe two.
00:02:31.460 And suddenly it looked like O'Toole could win,
00:02:33.600 and then expectations got way out of whack, right?
00:02:36.220 Then it suddenly became O'Toole's going to win,
00:02:37.840 and I think one poll had them at 38% at one point.
00:02:41.460 And, you know, they thought they were going to win.
00:02:44.100 And on the flip side, you know, Trudeau's expectations were lowered for him.
00:02:48.380 And so on election day, we end up with, you know,
00:02:50.720 liberals in the end picking up three seats,
00:02:53.640 which if you'd asked anybody the day before
00:02:55.860 what they thought they were going to get,
00:02:56.940 that was exceeding expectations.
00:02:58.560 It was completely below what the expectations were
00:03:00.640 five weeks before when the election was called.
00:03:02.660 And then flip side O'Toole thought they were in position to win
00:03:05.560 and ended up losing two seats.
00:03:07.840 Which I guess in the overall context isn't terrible,
00:03:11.220 but it's certainly a step in the wrong direction.
00:03:14.100 And a lot of the results in individual ridings
00:03:17.020 were certainly very discouraging for the Conservatives.
00:03:20.720 Well, it's interesting how Justin Trudeau, you know,
00:03:25.100 after winning two elections, managed to somehow kind of shape himself
00:03:28.560 like an underdog in the campaign.
00:03:30.940 And we thought that maybe voters were going to punish him,
00:03:34.100 but then it turned out that they were sort of indifferent to it.
00:03:37.200 You mentioned that the pollsters had Aaron O'Toole up at 38%.
00:03:41.020 I remember at the time you were always a little skeptical
00:03:43.580 of those really high numbers.
00:03:45.360 I wonder, you know, given the sort of flack
00:03:48.820 that your profession has had over the last couple of years,
00:03:51.200 I would say ever since the 2016 U.S. election
00:03:53.780 where the pollsters just got it so wrong,
00:03:56.000 how did you think pollsters did in this election?
00:03:58.880 Did they get it right?
00:04:00.000 Or do you think that they still sort of missed the mark?
00:04:03.580 Look, I think like anything, it's a big profession.
00:04:05.540 I didn't count, but I think it was probably about a dozen,
00:04:08.960 maybe as many as 15 companies released polls
00:04:11.020 through the Canadian federal election.
00:04:12.200 And some of them did a very good job
00:04:14.040 and some of them do not have a record that was as good.
00:04:19.160 So if you look at, you know,
00:04:20.280 I don't want to, I'm not going to go through
00:04:21.400 any of everyone's rating.
00:04:22.480 We look at someone like Leger.
00:04:23.500 Leger did a very good job
00:04:24.680 and got the results very, very, very close.
00:04:28.400 And there's definitely a tier of professional,
00:04:31.060 often larger organizations
00:04:32.460 that have a good record of being quite accurate.
00:04:35.700 And then generally speaking,
00:04:36.920 we see that the pollsters that use demon dial technology
00:04:41.020 tend to get swingier results.
00:04:43.060 They tend to show,
00:04:44.060 they show the PPC shooting up to 10 or 11
00:04:45.960 when the PPC ended up getting, you know, five.
00:04:48.600 They were the ones who showed the Tories way up at one point
00:04:51.180 and then also showed them way down at another point.
00:04:53.800 So the technology, I think, sorts out a little bit.
00:04:56.440 So generally speaking, I think, you know,
00:04:58.820 looking at the demon dial
00:05:00.560 or the interactive voice response surveys,
00:05:03.180 I think you can see more and more of that jumping around,
00:05:06.800 which, you know, frankly, in some elections,
00:05:08.720 maybe there is big swings going on.
00:05:10.760 But I don't really believe there were in this election.
00:05:13.040 You know, I don't think what happened in the election
00:05:16.340 justified the big swings.
00:05:17.940 We've heard a lot about a concept
00:05:19.840 of the sort of shy Tory vote or phenomenon
00:05:23.120 where Canadians or Americans, whoever,
00:05:26.460 Conservatives, don't really feel like telling pollsters the truth.
00:05:29.300 They don't want to say that they support a Conservative
00:05:31.520 because they see Conservatives getting demonized in the media.
00:05:35.100 Do you think there's anything to that theory?
00:05:37.560 And do you think it applies in practice here in Canada?
00:05:40.440 Absolutely.
00:05:41.020 I mean, you know, the Conservatives won the popular vote
00:05:43.900 both in 2020 and in 2021,
00:05:46.940 not by huge amounts, but they were ahead.
00:05:49.140 And very, very, very few of the polls,
00:05:51.600 even some of those most reputable pollsters,
00:05:53.940 showed them ahead going into either of those elections.
00:05:57.700 So the statutory phenomenon exists.
00:06:01.360 I don't think it's massive.
00:06:02.340 I don't think, you know, I think it might count
00:06:03.920 for 1% of the electorate, maybe 2% in some areas.
00:06:06.400 It's not big, but I think it definitely exists.
00:06:08.700 I also think there's a significant chance
00:06:10.140 it's going to increase as time goes on.
00:06:12.500 You know, as what we're seeing
00:06:14.200 is we're seeing trust in the media,
00:06:16.000 certainly the old legacy media,
00:06:17.460 not places like Trinorth,
00:06:18.740 but we're seeing Conservatives on the whole
00:06:21.040 begin to lose trust in a lot of those institutions.
00:06:23.720 So when they get called,
00:06:25.000 they're less likely to participate,
00:06:26.420 perhaps in a poll from a pollster,
00:06:29.240 or they're more likely to sort of hedge their bets
00:06:31.960 and say they're undecided when they're really not.
00:06:34.580 Well, I want to pick up on that concept of the media
00:06:37.280 sort of being a little out of touch
00:06:39.120 from Conservatives specifically,
00:06:41.740 but also just Canadians by and large.
00:06:43.680 I mean, look, everyone I talk to,
00:06:45.920 everyone I know,
00:06:47.440 the issues that they're thinking about
00:06:48.640 and that they care about
00:06:49.460 is all related to cost of living.
00:06:51.780 It's all about the rising cost of gasoline,
00:06:54.640 the cost of things in the grocery store,
00:06:56.300 worrying about Christmas items,
00:06:57.760 the unaffordability of buying a home,
00:07:01.000 especially in places like Vancouver and Toronto.
00:07:03.540 And yet, if you tune into the media,
00:07:05.500 if you turn onto the CBC
00:07:06.820 or even picked up a copy of the Globe and Mail,
00:07:10.100 it's basically all about either climate change or COVID.
00:07:13.960 Those are like the only two things
00:07:15.440 that they really cover.
00:07:17.080 Splash in a little bit of like woke hectoring
00:07:19.320 about how like Canada's racist
00:07:21.440 or these are the words that you shouldn't use anymore.
00:07:24.180 That was on the CBC earlier this week.
00:07:27.260 Why is it that the media is so different from Canadians?
00:07:32.600 And I mean, you're a pollster,
00:07:34.000 so you do polls in the field
00:07:35.560 and you have probably a better idea
00:07:37.820 of what Canadians think.
00:07:40.200 So is it me that's out of touch or is it the media?
00:07:43.200 No, I think broadly speaking, it's the media.
00:07:44.980 And I think, frankly,
00:07:46.420 I think this has been a problem for a long time.
00:07:48.260 There's always been,
00:07:48.880 especially at the sort of more elite newspapers
00:07:50.640 that, you know, the Toronto Star
00:07:51.860 or the Globe and Mail,
00:07:53.400 there's always been a, you know,
00:07:55.520 a view that they want to report
00:07:56.580 what's important to them and people like them
00:07:58.260 and everybody else should learn from that
00:07:59.900 and just simply take their cues.
00:08:02.240 But I also think that, frankly,
00:08:04.080 as they get more and more subsidies
00:08:05.440 from the federal government,
00:08:07.180 the need to, for market reasons,
00:08:11.120 to reflect what people are interested in,
00:08:13.200 diminishes, right?
00:08:14.800 You get into a situation where it doesn't matter
00:08:17.400 as many people buy your papers
00:08:18.880 as long as the federal subsidy checks keep coming
00:08:20.860 or watch your TV show.
00:08:22.720 So it doesn't matter that you're less relevant.
00:08:25.540 The other thing, of course,
00:08:26.220 that's happened is that with, you know,
00:08:29.920 with the amalgamation of a lot of the media,
00:08:32.760 you know, being bought up by large corporations,
00:08:34.740 as well as a lot of media closing,
00:08:37.920 as we go through the shift into the internet,
00:08:39.860 what we're seeing,
00:08:40.580 because there's less competition,
00:08:42.460 they can be less responsive, right?
00:08:44.480 And that's what's interesting.
00:08:46.660 And I think the future is obviously going to be,
00:08:49.140 you know, outlets like True North and others
00:08:50.860 that can build audiences that connect with people
00:08:54.040 on the issues that they actually care about.
00:08:56.240 You know, because we saw, you know,
00:08:58.160 we saw, you know, in the lead up in the summer,
00:09:01.220 we obviously had all the fallout
00:09:02.940 of the residential schools situation.
00:09:06.400 And we saw the fallout for that.
00:09:07.840 And we had, I saw media commentators
00:09:09.220 the entire month of July leading up
00:09:11.420 into the election, early August saying,
00:09:13.120 this election is going to be about
00:09:14.880 indigenous reconciliation.
00:09:16.240 It's going to be about, you know,
00:09:19.040 the fallout from the residential schools.
00:09:22.760 Nobody said any, none of the politicians
00:09:24.320 who actually have to go and get votes
00:09:25.680 really even dealt with it.
00:09:26.960 You know, there was a little bit here and there,
00:09:28.120 but it just was not an issue during the election
00:09:30.700 in any appreciable way.
00:09:32.520 And I think the media is, you know,
00:09:35.080 you know, in a market environment,
00:09:37.880 we'd be in a situation where they would be able to respond.
00:09:40.100 They would need to respond to what people are,
00:09:42.200 are saying about them and,
00:09:46.560 or the issues matter to people,
00:09:48.980 but they don't have to.
00:09:50.040 And we're seeing it, you know,
00:09:51.480 it becomes a bigger problem.
00:09:53.260 You know, not only do the subsidies,
00:09:54.300 but then there's places like the Globe and Mail,
00:09:56.180 which is owned by, you know, the Thompson family.
00:09:59.000 They've owned it for a very long time.
00:10:00.540 And they're just there to preserve the Globe.
00:10:01.840 The Globe and Mail is a jewel in their crown
00:10:04.620 of their media empire.
00:10:05.680 And, you know, of course they want the Globe
00:10:07.640 to make money,
00:10:08.200 but if it loses a bit of money one year,
00:10:10.120 that's not the point, right?
00:10:11.660 So the media is going to become,
00:10:14.800 I believe,
00:10:15.460 more about hectoring and lecturing
00:10:17.740 and telling us all what we should care about.
00:10:19.940 And the disconnect from the mainstream media
00:10:23.940 is only going to increase.
00:10:26.040 That's a really good point,
00:10:27.280 that the legacy media that are funded,
00:10:29.660 at least in part,
00:10:30.400 are subsidized by the federal government.
00:10:32.220 They're really playing for an audience of one,
00:10:33.880 and that is Justin Trudeau,
00:10:35.060 because as long as Trudeau's happy,
00:10:36.400 you know, they're making their money
00:10:37.900 and they don't mind.
00:10:39.320 Amish, I want to switch back to conservatives, 0.81
00:10:42.740 both, you know, the federal scene as well.
00:10:45.140 You know, it's going to be a big year,
00:10:46.140 2022 in Ontario with an election campaign,
00:10:49.440 in Alberta with a potential leadership review
00:10:51.860 for Premier Jason Kenney.
00:10:54.040 So let's start federally.
00:10:55.540 What do you think conservatives need to focus on
00:10:58.520 in 2022 to make inroads,
00:11:00.640 to gain ground,
00:11:01.760 and, you know, to position themselves
00:11:04.760 if and when the next federal election should happen?
00:11:09.920 Well, I think right now it has to be all about inflation.
00:11:13.040 And it has to be more than just sort of
00:11:15.740 ranting about inflation
00:11:16.760 as some sort of anonymous global force,
00:11:18.920 like, you know, a hurricane.
00:11:20.540 It's about tying inflation to Justin Trudeau.
00:11:23.380 The reason why, you know,
00:11:24.800 it costs more to fill up your car
00:11:27.400 is because we don't have the pipelines
00:11:28.880 to get Canadian oil and gas
00:11:33.000 to different parts of the country.
00:11:34.400 The reason why,
00:11:35.600 and not to mention a carbon tax, of course,
00:11:37.360 the reason why, you know,
00:11:39.520 it costs more to buy all sorts of other things
00:11:41.140 is because, you know, money,
00:11:43.160 the cost of money is money.
00:11:45.540 So cheap right now,
00:11:46.080 because money supply has grown so much
00:11:47.940 because of Trudeau's overspending.
00:11:49.600 You know, it's unclear to me
00:11:51.460 when interest rates are going to go up,
00:11:53.200 although the Bank of Canada
00:11:54.920 is now talking about them
00:11:55.780 in a way that they wouldn't dream
00:11:57.160 of talking about it
00:11:57.880 even three or four months ago.
00:12:00.520 You know, when interest rates go up
00:12:02.680 and people's mortgages start costing more
00:12:04.540 and their car payments start costing more,
00:12:06.700 this is a result
00:12:07.460 of Justin Trudeau's monetary policy
00:12:09.360 and his out-of-control spending,
00:12:11.280 which he will try to pretend
00:12:12.620 is all about COVID,
00:12:13.540 but frankly, really predates COVID.
00:12:15.400 And there's an awful lot of spending
00:12:16.500 in their COVID package
00:12:17.540 that was, you know, simply unnecessary.
00:12:19.800 So conservatives have to
00:12:21.800 not only focus relentlessly on inflation,
00:12:24.060 but build the bridge
00:12:25.280 between the Trudeau and inflation.
00:12:27.840 And then the follow-up to that,
00:12:29.480 which maybe is more of a 2023 thing,
00:12:31.540 but is then explain
00:12:32.920 how they would do things
00:12:34.500 significantly differently
00:12:35.960 as to credibly be able
00:12:37.700 to solve the problem.
00:12:39.520 And I think they have to be focused
00:12:40.920 like a laser on it.
00:12:42.660 That's great.
00:12:43.380 Yeah.
00:12:43.660 Okay, well, let's move on to Ontario then.
00:12:45.760 So it looks like
00:12:46.340 there's going to be an election.
00:12:47.320 What are things looking like
00:12:49.000 on that front?
00:12:49.940 And do you think that Doug Ford
00:12:51.380 is a shoe-in for Premier again?
00:12:55.020 I don't.
00:12:55.840 I think assuming that
00:12:56.920 this Ontario election
00:12:57.960 is going to be a shoe-in for anybody
00:12:59.040 would be a big mistake.
00:13:00.540 The polling jumps around a bit,
00:13:02.240 but it's fairly consistent
00:13:03.300 that the conservatives,
00:13:05.300 the PCs,
00:13:05.840 are somewhere in the mid-30s.
00:13:07.720 Sometimes they pull up 36, 37,
00:13:09.280 sometimes they're down at 33.
00:13:10.580 It bounces around a bit,
00:13:12.120 but they're fairly consistently
00:13:13.440 within a point or two of 35,
00:13:15.400 let's say.
00:13:15.800 The NDP and the Liberals
00:13:19.440 have spent most of the last year
00:13:20.940 more or less being tied
00:13:22.080 somewhere in the high 20s.
00:13:24.400 What I believe will happen
00:13:25.820 going into this year
00:13:26.660 is there will be consolidation
00:13:27.840 around one of those two parties.
00:13:29.360 We're unlikely to be going in
00:13:30.540 with a three-way split.
00:13:32.580 We're going to see,
00:13:33.520 you know,
00:13:34.020 either the Liberals
00:13:34.720 or the NDP fall back
00:13:35.840 and the other one profiting from that
00:13:37.460 and saying we're the only people
00:13:38.640 who can beat Doug Ford.
00:13:40.180 You know,
00:13:40.500 Ford's numbers are a lot better now
00:13:41.660 than they were before the pandemic.
00:13:43.460 He's done a reasonably good job
00:13:45.180 of going through the pandemic
00:13:47.260 and has gained some popularity
00:13:48.900 and some trust from that,
00:13:50.160 which helps and makes
00:13:51.280 this next election
00:13:51.980 a lot easier
00:13:52.880 than it otherwise would have been.
00:13:54.500 But this is going to be
00:13:55.460 a very, very tough fight
00:13:56.480 and I know a lot of people
00:13:57.620 are very dismissive
00:13:58.820 of both Corvath and Del Duca
00:14:00.960 saying,
00:14:01.740 well,
00:14:01.920 nobody sees them as a premier.
00:14:03.540 It doesn't really matter.
00:14:06.640 I think being dismissive
00:14:08.300 at this point
00:14:09.120 would be a big, big mistake
00:14:10.320 and assuming
00:14:11.260 that both the Liberals
00:14:13.020 and the NDP
00:14:13.420 are going to be
00:14:14.020 more or less tied
00:14:14.940 for second place
00:14:15.840 is also a big mistake.
00:14:18.120 So what do you think
00:14:18.960 the Conservatives
00:14:19.620 then have to do?
00:14:20.320 Because I know
00:14:21.220 for Doug Ford,
00:14:23.040 a lot of sort of
00:14:24.400 grassroots Conservatives
00:14:25.800 are really fed up with him,
00:14:27.540 don't like the COVID lockdowns,
00:14:29.260 don't like the restrictions,
00:14:30.400 don't like some
00:14:30.880 of the flip-flops
00:14:31.460 that he's had
00:14:32.040 over vaccine mandates
00:14:34.040 and so on.
00:14:36.080 So there is
00:14:36.640 some disenfranchisement
00:14:37.460 and then it seems like
00:14:38.480 the people who think
00:14:39.220 he's done a great job
00:14:40.620 are sort of more
00:14:41.600 like the centrist
00:14:42.560 media crowd,
00:14:43.420 which seems to be
00:14:44.380 the ones
00:14:44.780 that he does
00:14:45.780 really need
00:14:46.240 to hold on to.
00:14:48.060 So what do you think
00:14:49.580 the best strategy
00:14:50.380 is for the
00:14:51.620 Progressive Conservatives
00:14:52.320 in Ontario?
00:14:53.440 Well, I think
00:14:53.820 they've got to make sure
00:14:55.000 every single last
00:14:55.820 living Conservative
00:14:56.440 comes out to vote.
00:14:58.020 You know,
00:14:58.200 they got 40.5%
00:14:59.620 last time,
00:15:00.280 which was not huge
00:15:01.440 compared to,
00:15:03.860 say, Mike Harris'
00:15:04.460 victories,
00:15:05.000 45% in each
00:15:06.480 of his elections
00:15:07.160 or in each
00:15:09.160 of his victories.
00:15:09.680 So, you know,
00:15:11.560 being down to 35%,
00:15:12.700 like there's not
00:15:13.040 a lot of margin
00:15:13.680 for error
00:15:14.260 and being down
00:15:15.240 around 35%,
00:15:16.600 you know,
00:15:17.680 the problem
00:15:18.660 that the,
00:15:19.120 I have no doubt
00:15:20.260 that the PCs
00:15:21.360 can win the most seats.
00:15:23.500 It's winning
00:15:24.060 a majority government
00:15:25.000 that I think
00:15:25.380 is going to be,
00:15:25.980 is going to be difficult.
00:15:27.580 And on top of that,
00:15:29.680 the,
00:15:30.980 because the chances
00:15:31.720 of the Liberals
00:15:32.220 and NDP
00:15:32.460 creating a coalition
00:15:33.320 is about 100%,
00:15:34.900 you know,
00:15:35.260 if the PCs
00:15:36.040 don't win a majority.
00:15:37.200 So, you know,
00:15:38.440 their quest for a majority,
00:15:39.420 they've got to make sure
00:15:40.240 every living,
00:15:40.860 every breathing,
00:15:41.400 living conservative
00:15:42.560 comes out and votes.
00:15:43.480 They've got to do
00:15:43.860 some things
00:15:44.440 to motivate their base
00:15:45.320 and get them excited
00:15:46.040 to come out and vote.
00:15:47.680 And they've got to,
00:15:49.240 once whomever emerges
00:15:51.320 as the most likely
00:15:54.500 anti-forward person,
00:15:55.520 whether it's Horvath
00:15:56.060 or Del Duca,
00:15:57.060 they have to do
00:15:57.520 a very effective job
00:15:58.560 of making that person
00:15:59.400 look very, very risky
00:16:00.420 and being someone
00:16:04.580 that people have
00:16:05.340 to come out to stop.
00:16:07.100 And, but, you know,
00:16:08.200 if they're going
00:16:08.920 to get from 35%
00:16:10.800 up to 38, 39
00:16:12.120 in order to win
00:16:12.680 a majority,
00:16:13.760 they've got to,
00:16:14.840 they've got their work
00:16:15.900 cut out for them.
00:16:17.520 Some of those suggestions,
00:16:18.920 Samish,
00:16:19.200 sounded a little,
00:16:20.160 a little bit like
00:16:20.800 the 2006 federal campaign
00:16:22.720 for Harper,
00:16:23.400 you know,
00:16:23.580 the idea that you'd have
00:16:24.480 some scary coalition
00:16:25.420 and that the other side
00:16:27.240 is just not,
00:16:27.680 not trustworthy,
00:16:28.460 Ryan's view of what,
00:16:30.080 what they did
00:16:30.680 with Stefan Dion.
00:16:31.520 But anyway,
00:16:32.700 I want to move on.
00:16:33.380 Finally,
00:16:33.860 final question here.
00:16:34.880 What do things
00:16:36.420 look like in Alberta?
00:16:37.640 Do you think our friend,
00:16:38.960 Premier Jason Kenney,
00:16:40.180 stands a good chance
00:16:41.100 of being Premier
00:16:41.640 at the end,
00:16:42.400 you know,
00:16:42.620 a year from now?
00:16:43.320 Or do you think
00:16:43.980 that he's handled
00:16:45.420 things too poorly
00:16:46.040 and that he can't
00:16:46.560 make it up?
00:16:47.520 I think he's had,
00:16:48.480 I think he's had
00:16:49.020 a very difficult go
00:16:50.320 the last few months.
00:16:51.260 The amount of turmoil
00:16:52.320 inside his party,
00:16:54.080 inside his caucus
00:16:54.700 has obviously
00:16:55.240 been significant.
00:16:57.520 You know,
00:16:57.900 I think he's had
00:16:58.640 a better few weeks.
00:16:59.520 I think the ECB convention,
00:17:02.320 I think,
00:17:02.640 didn't blow up
00:17:03.500 into something.
00:17:04.520 I think the chances
00:17:05.380 of a leadership review,
00:17:06.980 now that there are
00:17:07.960 people out there
00:17:09.660 talking about
00:17:11.420 wanting to run
00:17:11.980 for leader,
00:17:12.820 I think the chances
00:17:13.780 that now
00:17:14.960 the alternatives
00:17:16.420 to Premier Kenney
00:17:18.520 become more real.
00:17:21.220 And when you put
00:17:22.260 someone else
00:17:22.720 on the ballot
00:17:23.180 or someone else,
00:17:23.960 that person has
00:17:24.600 lots of pluses,
00:17:25.380 but they also have
00:17:25.840 lots of minuses.
00:17:26.920 And that results
00:17:28.000 in a situation
00:17:28.560 where suddenly
00:17:29.160 you're no longer
00:17:30.240 comparing,
00:17:30.960 you know,
00:17:31.560 Premier Kenney
00:17:32.020 with someone
00:17:32.720 who has
00:17:33.480 some sort
00:17:34.080 of mythical
00:17:34.500 other candidate.
00:17:38.400 So I think
00:17:39.480 he's in a better position.
00:17:40.800 I think he's got
00:17:41.200 a lot of work to do.
00:17:41.960 I think he's got
00:17:42.280 to re-green the trust
00:17:43.240 of a lot of people
00:17:44.640 in his party.
00:17:45.740 I mean,
00:17:45.920 there's obviously
00:17:46.380 a letter from,
00:17:48.000 you know,
00:17:48.260 25% of writing
00:17:49.300 presidents or something
00:17:50.140 demanding a quicker
00:17:51.620 leadership review.
00:17:52.380 So there's obviously
00:17:53.060 been some trust lost
00:17:54.100 and he has to spend
00:17:54.900 a lot of time
00:17:55.960 doing that.
00:17:57.760 You know,
00:17:58.240 if he can get
00:17:58.620 through the spring,
00:17:59.440 I think his chances
00:18:01.140 he'll be,
00:18:01.760 you know,
00:18:02.060 Premier a year from now
00:18:02.880 and be in a position
00:18:03.560 to fight the next election
00:18:04.620 are very,
00:18:05.460 very high.
00:18:06.800 And I especially,
00:18:07.980 I think he's got
00:18:08.580 a good chance of that.
00:18:09.860 You know,
00:18:09.960 the price of oil
00:18:10.980 is up.
00:18:12.120 People generally think
00:18:12.940 it's going to keep going up.
00:18:15.060 You know,
00:18:15.220 there's been a lot
00:18:15.800 of tech investment
00:18:16.480 in Calgary.
00:18:17.800 Things are beginning
00:18:18.460 to get back
00:18:18.980 on their feet.
00:18:19.480 So I think,
00:18:21.260 you know,
00:18:21.840 should he get around
00:18:23.440 to,
00:18:24.020 you know,
00:18:24.220 should he get through
00:18:24.820 the spring
00:18:25.260 and this internal challenge,
00:18:26.780 I think he'll have
00:18:27.320 a pretty good message
00:18:28.120 to take to people
00:18:28.960 in Alberta
00:18:29.420 and be able
00:18:31.300 to paint Rachel
00:18:32.300 Notley as dangerous.
00:18:35.140 That's really,
00:18:35.920 yeah,
00:18:36.140 some really interesting
00:18:36.760 points.
00:18:37.160 It's like,
00:18:37.500 it seems like
00:18:38.080 some of the old players
00:18:38.780 from five,
00:18:39.640 six years ago
00:18:40.500 in Alberta
00:18:40.860 are back
00:18:41.400 on the playing field
00:18:42.640 with Brian Jean
00:18:43.720 looking to run
00:18:44.480 and Danielle Smith
00:18:45.360 voicing some interest
00:18:46.220 there.
00:18:46.620 So it should be
00:18:47.560 a really interesting year
00:18:48.440 on a number of fronts.
00:18:49.280 Hey, Mish,
00:18:49.640 we really appreciate
00:18:50.640 all the insights.
00:18:51.620 As usual,
00:18:52.260 thank you for joining us
00:18:53.280 throughout the year.
00:18:53.860 It was great to have you
00:18:54.420 on our team in 2021
00:18:55.660 and we hope to see
00:18:56.280 a lot more from you
00:18:56.940 in 2022.
00:18:58.320 My pleasure.
00:18:59.600 All right,
00:18:59.880 thank you so much.
00:19:00.520 I'm Candice Malcolm
00:19:01.040 and this is
00:19:01.700 The Candice Malcolm Show.