Juno News - Will the Liberals throw another female minority under the bus？

00:00:00.000 Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of True North Update, your Friday wrap-up of

00:00:11.980 everything that's happened in the wonderful world of Canadian politics and beyond. I am

00:00:17.000 Andrew Lawton, once again filling in for Candace Malcolm.

00:00:20.020 And I am Sam Ashkodossi, filling in, I guess, for Andrew.

00:00:23.500 Even though I'm here, it's weird how that works out. But in any case, thanks very much,

00:00:27.500 Sam, for doing this again. Last week, you were deep, hidden in the bowels of the forest,

00:00:32.340 and I was holed up in a hotel room in Calgary. So we're back on our home turf or home court

00:00:37.000 advantage this week, which is good.

00:00:38.820 That's right. No more true north for me. Now I'm in the regular, I guess I'm north of Toronto.

00:00:42.840 I don't know if that counts as true north enough, but back in the city.

00:00:46.620 It certainly doesn't count as rugged wilderness, that's for sure. And I'm back in London,

00:00:50.960 Ontario. So yeah, we're about as anti-wilderness as it gets in the heart of suburbia. But in any

00:00:56.520 case, we are still speaking and representing to all Canadians, or at least endeavouring to do so.

00:01:02.280 We've got a lot to get through today. We're going to be talking about the latest in the federal

00:01:06.660 government and provincial government of Nova Scotia's inquiry into April's Nova Scotia attack.

00:01:13.040 We're also going to be speaking later on about the latest developments in the WE scandal, the

00:01:18.560 committee, the RCMP investigation, Bill Morneau, Justin Trudeau, all of these things,

00:01:23.600 and also it's a border crossing story that we'll get to. But let's actually start off on WE,

00:01:29.400 because this is, I mean, from a conservative politics perspective, the gift that keeps on

00:01:33.500 giving, because it's not like a lot of other scandals, even to the SNC-Lavalin affair, to some

00:01:39.340 extent, where once the big story comes out, there isn't really much that happens with it. I mean,

00:01:45.160 I know with SNC, we had some developments and we got a bit more detail, but ultimately the longer the

00:01:50.880 story went on, things just faded because nothing new was happening. Whereas with WE, every day,

00:01:56.800 it seems like things get worse for WE, worse for the Liberals. We add in another player from cabinet,

00:02:02.240 and even now we're, what, three weeks into it, and it still is ballooning and growing in controversy.

00:02:07.620 Yeah, this story is like an onion. It has so many layers and it's just as smelly.

00:02:11.540 You know, every time you think you're done with the shenanigans, then there's some new revelation.

00:02:15.400 And now the blame, like, you know, I'm sure we'll get into that, but the finger-pointing now is

00:02:21.560 actually more of a sideshow entertainment story than even the original WE scandal, because it's just

00:02:27.400 ridiculous to see people turning on themselves and throwing other people under the bus.

00:02:31.940 Yeah, and I mean, we, to some extent, tried to throw Bill Morneau under the bus this week. The big story,

00:02:37.100 I think, was Bill Morneau forgetting to have repaid the $41,000 in travel for a trip that he and his

00:02:44.120 wife took on WE's behalf, or two trips, rather, in 2017. So three years ago, he was elected, he was

00:02:51.000 finance minister, and the fact that two trips for two people cost $41,000 in the first place when a

00:02:57.380 charity was involved is, I think, a big problem here. And then you get the other aspect of this,

00:03:02.000 that he had just forgotten until, conveniently, the day he testified before the finance committee

00:03:07.780 that he hadn't repaid it. And then the big marker here came when we put out a statement

00:03:13.780 the very same day saying, this was never meant to be reimbursed. It was a free trip. Their

00:03:18.960 statement was basically that they were inviting him for all of these reasons. They said, oh,

00:03:23.160 he's a philanthropist and this and that. No, he was a senior cabinet minister, and you can't separate

00:03:27.820 that from his identity, whatever else he's done from his career. So he's repaid it anyway. But this

00:03:34.020 was very much about trying to avoid yet another WE conflict in the Trudeau government. It wasn't about

00:03:40.040 him actually believing clearly, like he had just been borrowing some money from WE.

00:03:45.080 Well, that's the thing. There are rules if you are a minister, if you're a member of parliament.

00:03:49.860 It's not, I can accept that there might be no wrongdoing in a lot of cases, but you have to

00:03:54.060 prevent against the appearance of wrongdoing. And that's why a lot of these rules are in place.

00:03:58.260 So if you're going to go for some reason to see what WE is doing in other countries, you want to

00:04:02.600 see their good works. OK, fine, I guess. But, you know, why do they need to pay $41,000 for you and

00:04:08.640 your wife to come on a trip? I mean, even the fact that he's bringing his wife, to be honest. I mean,

00:04:12.820 you know, I've met people in the finance committee. They're going to Yellowknife. They're going all over

00:04:16.300 the place to do these meetings and they're not bringing their spouses. They're not, you know,

00:04:19.800 they're not going for a pleasure trip. It's just to go get there and do the business. And fine,

00:04:23.380 you might have fun. I understand that's maybe some of the perks of the job. Some people like

00:04:26.800 travel. You get to travel. But this is not a job perk and it should not be a job perk to get a

00:04:31.260 $41,000 vacation for your wife and yourself. No. And I mean, we looked at the controversy with

00:04:37.040 Justin Trudeau's first ethics violation, the trip he took to the Aga Khan's private island. And what

00:04:42.640 really sunk him was that there was a specific ban on accepting air travel and not disclosing it.

00:04:49.520 And it was the helicopter trip to get to the private island. That was, I think, the real

00:04:53.200 linchpin of Justin Trudeau's plans, where he very clearly violated by the letter and spirit of the

00:04:58.860 law, the code for ministers of the crown of which the prime minister is one. So here we're talking

00:05:04.480 about an entire trip, not just a little helicopter jaunt from one island to the other, which is bad

00:05:08.920 enough, but an entire trip, two trips, familial advantage, personal advantage from a group that does

00:05:15.660 business with the government. How does this not come across in any definition as being a conflict,

00:05:22.120 as being ethically wrong, as being legally wrong? Not to mention, I think, the moral aspect here of,

00:05:28.920 you know, when you're a minister of taking this, which was clearly intended to be a gift, when

00:05:34.140 the repayment of it doesn't come about for another three years, it was a gift. It was not something that

00:05:39.640 was just brokered. Wee has many different layers to it. It's been called a shell corporation. It's

00:05:45.420 not a travel agency.

00:05:47.740 Definitely not a travel agency. And that's the real difference for me in this case. It's not just

00:05:53.080 the fact that he is getting money. It's the fact that he's a minister of the crown and the fact that

00:05:59.140 we is getting money from the government. It's not a separate pocketbook. It's not a separate bucket

00:06:03.660 of money. So if I apply for a grant and I got $100,000 and then I took some members of parliament

00:06:09.800 who, even if they're not connected to me getting that grant, I took some members of parliament to

00:06:13.900 dinner. Well, where did my organization get any money? If one of my main sources is the government,

00:06:20.300 then you can say, well, it's really just flowing through me. You might as well have the government

00:06:24.240 buy them dinner. And even if it's not the main source of income, it's still, again, a question,

00:06:28.800 well, without that government income, would they have been able to drop $41,000? I mean,

00:06:32.620 there were rumors that they were in financial trouble to begin with. And so the flow through

00:06:37.180 effect, which is basically what it comes down to. And again, this is the appearance. Even if

00:06:41.880 someone maybe had a private donor that wanted to donate this, so many appearances, so many

00:06:46.420 wrongdoings, people really should check their head. And that's a trend with this government is the,

00:06:50.940 you know, what are you thinking? Right? What are you thinking? You should know better. You are the

00:06:54.600 people who harped on the previous government about accountability, about transparency. And here you are,

00:07:00.160 where's the accountability? Where's the transparency? Yeah. And I never liked making

00:07:04.400 everything a comparison game and turning everything into a question of, oh, well, what if Harper had

00:07:09.060 done this? And what if Harper had done this? But, you know, I'm also remiss to not point out that

00:07:13.300 that is a very illuminating thought experiment when you do that. Because, you know, the famous example

00:07:18.520 of a gross ethical violation that everyone will remember until the end of time is a $16 glass of

00:07:23.600 orange juice at the Savoy Hotel. That's the downfall of Bev Oda, the $16 glass of orange juice.

00:07:29.580 And, you know, in a lot of ways, I think from a political communications perspective,

00:07:33.700 people can relate to a $16 glass of orange juice because they know that's not what orange juice

00:07:38.380 costs. People can't really relate to millions and billions as much because these numbers are so

00:07:43.600 abstract. And that's why if you're trying to attack someone, latching on to those things

00:07:47.920 is more important. I mean, the fact is Bev Oda spent a lot of money on that trip. There were a lot

00:07:52.680 of expenses that shouldn't have been on there, but that's the one that everyone remembers.

00:07:56.580 Yeah. And when you look at we, you know, here we are, $41,000, two vacations, family. This is

00:08:01.800 something that people, I think, understand. This is something that is not abstract. People get it.

00:08:06.440 People get that, hey, most families' vacations don't cost that. And if they do, most people aren't

00:08:11.140 getting them from an organization that's getting government contracts. Again, that's the entire thing.

00:08:16.360 It's the organization is getting government contracts. He is the finance minister. And now he's saying

00:08:21.380 he's sorry. But it's not even, I'm sorry. I don't know how you forget to pay $41,000 of travel,

00:08:27.980 how you don't realize that this is a thing that you should not be doing. I mean, I think we spoke

00:08:33.440 about this previously or just, you know, maybe not online, but in general, they get the stuff

00:08:38.000 drilled into them. They get the, you know, bejesus scared out of them, of these ethics violations by

00:08:43.520 bureaucracy, by some of the people that give them training when they get elected to prevent such

00:08:48.040 things from happening. And so, you know, at this point, you really got to wonder, is it on purpose?

00:08:51.920 They just don't care. They have, you know, no regard for the rules. They think they're above

00:08:55.540 them. I mean, he's a rich guy. The, you know, the prime minister also was a previously rich and

00:09:00.380 influential guy even before. So, you know, maybe they just don't care. Is that what it is? They

00:09:04.340 just don't care? Yeah. I mean, we've known, and I think I mentioned this on a previous show,

00:09:09.820 that Justin Trudeau seems to be surrounded by sycophants, you know, people for whom he can do no wrong.

00:09:15.380 And I think that's why there is such an ethical blind spot. And I'm not one of these eat the rich

00:09:20.180 types like that belong in the socialist wing of the NDP. So, you know, I think wealth is something

00:09:25.220 to be encouraged. I think creating wealth is to be encouraged. I think even people that have family

00:09:29.180 money, if they take that and they turn it into something good on them, I don't begrudge people

00:09:33.400 who are wealthy. But you also have to understand the cultural differences that exist between the

00:09:38.720 uber wealthy and even upper middle class Canadians. But I'm going to say the rest of the country.

00:09:43.520 And, you know, I think this is the observation a lot of people have made, you know, like,

00:09:47.420 imagine being so rich that, you know, you could just forget that you owed someone $41,000 for a

00:09:52.760 couple of trips. And more importantly, come up with that money on a day's notice when you learn

00:09:56.660 that you do owe it or when you've decided that you want to pay it back. I've just, oh, you know,

00:10:00.160 it's as though like, you know, my friend came up to me and said, oh, you owe me five bucks. You just

00:10:03.420 reach into your pocket and say, oh, there you go. Like you just have it on hand. And again, I don't think

00:10:07.660 it's a problem that Morneau has that. But it does, I think, reinforce what is really the significant

00:10:13.620 underpinning of this, which is just they honestly think there are different rules. I mean, things are

00:10:18.460 a lot more fluid for the elites than they are for most other people in the country and in the Western

00:10:23.940 world. Whereas you just kind of hobnob with people, you shake hands, you rub elbows, you have all of

00:10:30.120 these acquaintances that aren't really friends. And, you know, maybe you rub each other's backs or pat

00:10:34.520 each other's backs. It's COVID. You can't touch each other's backs, but whatever the case is.

00:10:38.680 And I do think that there's a genuine example of that at play here where people just don't realize

00:10:45.040 that, oh, yeah, this sort of power brokering and influence seeking isn't normal and isn't natural

00:10:50.680 outside of this world. Well, this is the real privilege and it's not a race-based privilege.

00:10:55.900 It is. It is. It's a class-based privilege that if you are among the elite, you're, you know,

00:11:00.520 the top, the top 1%, the upper, upper class, that's the privilege that you have. You have

00:11:05.260 the ability to kind of weave in and around the rules. You have maybe power and influence to

00:11:10.020 use the rules to the maximum advantage. You can leverage things that other people simply have no

00:11:14.720 way to leverage. You have connections. Like, I'm not getting invited to the Aga Khan's Island. I'm

00:11:19.560 not getting invited by Wii for a $41,000 vacation, even if I had the money, right, which I don't. But

00:11:24.260 even if I had the money, I'm not getting invited to any of these things. And that's the real thing that

00:11:29.380 people, you know, need to keep in mind. But also it's, you know, it's who are they blaming now?

00:11:34.100 So instead of, instead of taking responsibility, actually taking responsibility, you know, maybe

00:11:38.680 someone resigning as people are being called for now, now who are they blaming, Andrew? Who are

00:11:42.360 they blaming? Yeah. I mean, it's always someone else's fault. It's always someone else's

00:11:48.680 responsibility. In this case, it's just, oh, it's just an accident. I didn't know. And same as when

00:11:54.020 the Aga Khan Island thing happened, it was, oh, well, we were just family friends. I didn't think

00:11:57.980 there was an issue. And Bill Morneau's villa. It's, oh, how could I have known? I just forgot.

00:12:02.620 And the thing is, like, smaller things have caused heads to roll. Smaller things have caused there to

00:12:09.440 be significant demotions or outright terminations. And at best, even if we're found to have,

00:12:17.060 if Morneau and Trudeau are found to have violated the ethics rules again, what will happen? A slap on

00:12:21.520 the wrist, a $500 fine, and then everyone forgets about it by the time the election rolls around. I'm

00:12:26.240 growing more and more pessimistic of this, which is why I think that we're at the point where the

00:12:30.960 calls for police to investigate are not hyperbolic. I mean, we've looked at breaches of trust. We've

00:12:37.380 looked at potential for, and I don't even want to make a specific, like, make a laundry list of

00:12:42.880 charges here because no charges have been laid, but a number of areas of criminal law where the

00:12:47.620 conservatives have pointed out to and said, you know, we think this might fit the bill. At the very

00:12:52.180 least, we think it's worth investigating. Yeah. And further, I think the extra insult,

00:12:56.640 you know, I was talking to my wife and just a couple of friends about this whole thing.

00:12:59.500 The extra insult for me is how they're trying to get away by blaming people. And it's not just

00:13:04.640 people. It's a specific group of people, namely women. And for a prime minister who holds himself

00:13:09.780 up as a super feminist and, you know, because it's 2015 and, you know, cabinet equality and all these

00:13:14.560 things, you have Jody Wilson-Raybould, a minority woman. You have Jane Philpott. You have Selena 0.98

00:13:21.740 Caesar-Shavanez. You have Leona Aliseb. You have all these women. And then you're using another

00:13:26.420 woman, Julie Dersowitz. You're using another woman in committee to have Morneau throw another woman, 1.00

00:13:32.960 Bartas Chagher, under the bus now for this whole thing. That's just disgusting. I mean, if you pay any

00:13:38.680 attention to what's going on, it has nothing to do with their politics, left wing, right wing. I don't care

00:13:43.260 about that. I care about the fact that these people are holding themselves up as paragons,

00:13:47.540 like literal paragons of equality, calling any other party the worst names in the book. You know,

00:13:52.980 Andrew Scheer took so much flack for attending this event and that event. And he, you know,

00:13:57.000 he hates women and blah. And yet here's a prime minister who is holding himself up as a super

00:14:01.840 feminist. And this is what he does. This is what he's done. I mean, five women, five women who have

00:14:07.080 problems with this government is not suddenly an oversight. It's not just because, oh, it happens to be a

00:14:11.260 woman. That's, that's a serious problem to me. That's a really red flag. And every woman in this 1.00

00:14:15.660 country should be paying attention to what is going on, because this is not how you get women 1.00

00:14:18.980 into politics, which Justin Trudeau claims he so badly wants. Yeah. And I think there is an

00:14:24.740 important aspect of that and an important dynamic of that. I know Catherine McKenna was tweeting,

00:14:29.560 I think it was today, it might've been yesterday, about the need to get more women in politics. And

00:14:32.860 you look at her own liberal government's treatment of that, her own prime minister's treatment

00:14:37.080 government of the women that have risen up through the ranks in politics. And, you know,

00:14:41.100 I don't want to say that there is a women being targeted problem, but I certainly don't think that

00:14:47.440 women who stand up to power are being rewarded. And, you know, we just see that anyone who has stood up 0.95

00:14:52.580 and said no is punished. And that's, I think, a big problem. Well, this is the original complaint.

00:14:57.860 And, you know, it all comes down to the leadership where the prime minister is, for lack of a better

00:15:02.380 term, he's a dude bro. Right? He grew up, he's a dude bro. What is that? A dude bro? Is that one

00:15:08.180 word hyphenated, two words? It's the same as, oh, you know, allegedly that he said, oh, if I would

00:15:14.400 have known you were a reporter, I never would have groped you. Okay. He's a bro. Like, what do you,

00:15:18.560 he's like one of those college, the way it's coming out, he seems like one of those creepy college

00:15:23.300 guys that waits for the girl to have too many drinks. Like, that just seems to be what is going on

00:15:28.100 here. And then it's not surprising that he can have just such a disregard for women. And it almost

00:15:33.360 begs the question, well, are you holding up your feminism to kind of hide your, you know, disregard 1.00

00:15:37.680 for women or your low opinion of women or the fact that you think you can just do whatever you want

00:15:41.720 because you, you know, your last name gives you privilege of some kind. It seems to be a culture.

00:15:46.540 There's a lot of things. There's a, you know, a culture of not accepting responsibility. There seems

00:15:50.300 to be a culture of disregarding the rules. There seems to be a culture of treating women in such a 0.93

00:15:54.400 fashion. And these things very much concern me more than any specific policy, policy prescription

00:15:58.840 or any specific, you know, agenda or something they want to put forward from a political manner,

00:16:03.500 because this speaks to the people themselves that are running the government. I can handle

00:16:07.180 a coherent policy that I disagree with, but I cannot handle people that are not coherent and not,

00:16:12.140 not consistent because they, they can just do anything.

00:16:16.160 Well said on that note. What else do we have going on here? We, we weren't going to go all we,

00:16:20.640 all the day. Uh, but then we have started to, so I think we had some other stories now I've lost

00:16:26.540 where we were. Oh, here we go. Uh, let's talk about the, oh no, that's part, that's a wee story

00:16:31.380 as well. How many pages of we did, uh, did our producer give us here? Okay. There we go. Uh,

00:16:36.480 Nova Scotia shooting. This was in April. Absolutely horrific. 22 people killed a lot of unanswered

00:16:43.160 questions about this still even three months later. How did the killer get firearms given that he had

00:16:48.360 no firearms license? How did he get his hands on a police car? That was a very convincing replica.

00:16:53.640 We've had some conflicting information about that. How did he fly under the radar despite

00:16:58.140 all of the known instances of violence and threats domestically, and also to public safety,

00:17:05.020 the obsession with police officers, a lot of these questions, which is why immediately there were calls

00:17:10.120 for a full and robust public inquiry. Three months later, the government is not only not doing an

00:17:15.820 inquiry, but they are doing a panel that will not have the public transparency and the deep dive into

00:17:23.060 the records, but rather will be done much of which cloak and dagger in secret. And this is being

00:17:29.020 presided over by a three person panel. And look, I I'm glad that they're doing something, but the

00:17:35.160 families of the victims are saying, what the heck is this? I mean, a lot of the information, a lot of

00:17:40.240 the details will not be made public. The records, the total scope of inquiry will not be made public.

00:17:45.560 The final report will be. But the hearings that led to it won't be no excuse for this type of secrecy.

00:17:53.500 Yeah. All we got from this was a gun ban. And now we're not going to ever get the information and get

00:17:59.100 to the bottom of what truly happened. I mean, you know, there was all a bunch of weird things where

00:18:03.900 the guy withdrew some money. There was a whole bunch of weird questions. And maybe some of them have

00:18:07.320 really legitimate answers. I know we discussed the funds that he picked up and there was a lot of

00:18:12.000 things that just seemed fishy. I don't understand why you can't make a lot of this public, why you

00:18:16.440 can't make a lot of it transparent, transparent. And also the fact that this secrecy just lends to

00:18:22.680 the gun ban that the liberals decided to take advantage of, because you don't now know what

00:18:26.720 happened. So maybe, maybe it turns out that what he did is there's a really good reason to ban guns,

00:18:32.780 because this is how somehow he, you know, he got guns. If we don't ban these guns, someone like this can do

00:18:36.860 something again. But maybe it also has nothing to do with it. Maybe the gun ban was just totally

00:18:40.480 at overreach and just totally ridiculous, especially considering that there were anti-tank rockets and

00:18:45.160 surface to air missiles on that list. But transparency and truth will allow you to fix the

00:18:50.440 problem. If you cannot look at the truth, you could never fix a problem because you're not going to be

00:18:54.520 addressing the real problem. And Canadians have a right to know, because these are government

00:18:58.020 bodies. This is the RCMP. This is one of the top law enforcement bodies and agencies in this

00:19:02.340 country. We have a right to know what is going on over there. There should be oversight. Police have

00:19:06.480 tremendous power, and I have no problem with reasonable oversight.

00:19:10.660 Yeah, and you're right. I mean, the gun ban was something I was very critical of. It was

00:19:14.480 ham-fistedly done just because there was some political cover, given there was a tragedy. So

00:19:20.120 I think it was very callous. It was very cynical. And more importantly, it was just wrongheaded.

00:19:24.760 At the time that it was put forward, it didn't seem like the guns were legally owned, but we weren't

00:19:29.480 sure. And then we got confirmation from the RCMP that the guns were illegally owned and illegally

00:19:34.880 obtained, which means no gun ban would have stopped what happened. They wouldn't have stopped the man

00:19:40.060 from arming himself. So it was purely just to justify something the Liberals wanted to do

00:19:45.580 already. And I think that there is a danger in not having an inquiry and that it doesn't really

00:19:52.180 shine a light on any of these other things. When government is going to use a false set of

00:19:56.360 conclusions to justify political action, and that same government is saying we don't need to search

00:20:01.200 for answers in a public way, you can't square those two.

00:20:04.880 No. And that's really what it is. You cannot ever address a real problem if you're not going

00:20:09.680 to look at the truth. If you want to make up problems and then make up solutions because you

00:20:13.400 have some sort of vision. And that's, I think, what this is. The facts don't fit the Liberal

00:20:18.140 government's vision. They have a vision of what Canada is supposed to be like or what it should

00:20:22.120 be like. And anything that doesn't really agree with that vision gets tossed out. So it could

00:20:26.900 be, you know, some inconvenient fact like people forgetting to pay back money or people, you know,

00:20:31.500 just committing ethics violations that are just inconsistent with the vision that they want to

00:20:34.860 promote of who they are and who Canada is. Or it's just some vision that Canada is a super peaceful

00:20:39.720 country and we don't need guns and, you know, your rights be damned if you want to legally own a

00:20:43.660 firearm because that's not the vision that we have as the, you know, the whatever you want to call

00:20:48.380 the Ottawa elite, the Laurentian elite, the 401 elite. That's just not the vision that we have.

00:20:52.220 Yeah. And I would say too that, look, I mean, I don't like the politicization of tragedy. I don't

00:21:00.380 like the politicization of life, lives that were lost, but Trudeau has really made it so that is

00:21:06.560 required now because he has politicized it. And to push back against the politics, you have to suspend

00:21:12.320 what should be normal human rules and human decency and civility to fight them on their turf, which is

00:21:18.400 that if they're making it political, fine, which is why I pushed back against the gun ban, even though

00:21:23.060 I knew that lives have been lost to gun violence. It wasn't because I wanted to be discussing guns

00:21:27.380 at all. It's because the liberal government made that the argument.

00:21:31.240 Well, that's it. You cannot take a specific case and then try and argue the general.

00:21:35.020 You can't say that because this one specific instance, even if, even if literally it was legally

00:21:39.840 owned, he went through all the proper channels and a gun ban would have stopped. Even if that's the

00:21:43.280 case, you can't say because of one specific instance, because of one happenstance,

00:21:47.420 then we're now going to change the rules for every single person in society.

00:21:50.900 Now you can say this is going to spark a debate and this is a conversation we should have. I have

00:21:54.280 zero problem with that, but you cannot use one specific case and say that because this one

00:21:58.580 person did a bad thing, now everyone else's rights be damned. Yeah, very well said. Let's talk about

00:22:04.520 this federal court ruling that came down this week, the safe third country agreement, which is the deal

00:22:09.860 between the United States and Canadian governments to not accept refugee claimants who have landed in one

00:22:16.980 country to make a claim in the other, has been found to be in violation of the Charter of Rights

00:22:22.560 and Freedoms by the federal court. The court has given the Canadian government six months to rectify

00:22:28.120 this. Now opposition parties are calling for the agreement to be scrapped. In a nutshell, there's

00:22:33.040 a loophole in the safe third country agreement that says you can't, if you're a refugee that lands in

00:22:38.420 the U.S. or in Canada, you can't make a claim at the other country's official border crossings. The

00:22:44.560 loophole in this is that if you cross at an unofficial crossing, which means illegally, you

00:22:49.240 can make a claim. So this is what made Roxham Road in Quebec basically like the supercharged highway

00:22:55.040 to asylum in Canada, even though many of these people were ineligible because they were in the U.S.

00:23:01.500 So by saying this, this all of a sudden means that if you're in the U.S. and you decide,

00:23:06.160 you know, we don't like it here, we can just come to Canada, violating the spirit of international

00:23:11.100 asylum. And all of this is to say that this is giving Justin Trudeau a lot of cover right now

00:23:17.740 to stop caring about the border. Yeah. And it's, you know, I mean, I would be concerned that too

00:23:23.900 many people would, if Trump wins the election, that they would make applications. But no, but,

00:23:28.660 you know, on a serious note, I think. Well, that's been what's happening since 2016, though.

00:23:32.180 Yeah. You get people that are worried they're facing deportation in the U.S. and think,

00:23:35.980 oh, you know, Justin Trudeau had tweeted out that welcome to Canada thing a little while ago.

00:23:39.760 Maybe we'll just go there instead. And it doesn't become about finding a safe haven. It becomes about

00:23:44.680 shopping. Yes. And that's the real issue. I mean, the regular concern was that if you came to the

00:23:52.020 United States because you were being persecuted, you know, legitimate persecution, and I don't know,

00:23:57.580 for some reason, your case wasn't going so well, you would come to Canada and try your luck over

00:24:00.660 there. The fear was that if Canada then sent you back to the U.S., the U.S. would then deport you

00:24:04.880 automatically back to whatever country you were suffering in or being persecuted in. And so then

00:24:09.020 nothing would be served by the fact that people can apply for asylum or people can apply as

00:24:13.300 refugees. But that's a very specific concern and something that you can deal with rather than saying

00:24:18.900 that anyone who applies for asylum or refugee status from the United States, if they cross over

00:24:24.180 from the United States, is just a blanket. We have to accept them as a refugee claimant. That's a very, 1.00

00:24:28.680 very different discussion. So you're again, it's almost like we just spoke about taking a specific

00:24:32.340 and trying to argue the general, saying that you can never deport anyone back to the United States

00:24:36.160 versus there might be, on the off chance, some legitimate concern that someone would get deported

00:24:41.180 to another country or become a stateless person with no, you know, no citizenship, no papers or

00:24:45.320 anything of any kind. Those are very, very specific, perhaps legitimate conversations. This is a very

00:24:49.900 different story.

00:24:50.360 Yeah. So look, the six month window here is, I think, an important one, because it means that Justin Trudeau will

00:24:58.700 have to deal with this and how he does it stands to be seen. What I would love to see is the federal government

00:25:03.840 appeal this and say, well, actually, no, we think this is a terrible decision. We're going to bring this up to the

00:25:09.120 federal court of appeal, perhaps to the Supreme Court of Canada. That's what I would like to see. But if the government

00:25:14.420 just says, oh, well, we lost, that means that they've basically taken the political cover from

00:25:19.200 this decision to do what they wanted to do all along, which was basically just keep our border as

00:25:24.980 being a wide open suggestion, rather than something that matters.

00:25:29.320 Well, it's not, it's, the refugee system is not supposed to be an immigration stream.

00:25:33.140 It's not supposed to be a way that people come to this country on a regular basis. It's supposed to be

00:25:37.920 for the Vietnamese boat people, people who suffered persecution, you know, attempts at genocide,

00:25:42.880 things like that. There's a very, very specific reason why someone would be a refugee claimant or

00:25:48.380 an assignment claimant. And those sometimes are, you know, the lines can be blurry from one country

00:25:52.980 to the other. But there are some countries which life may not be great. There may be, it may be

00:25:58.080 dangerous. There may be a lot of criminals. There may be, you know, certain, certain countries have

00:26:02.680 maybe, you know, Mexico has, for example, cartel issues in northern Mexico. There's a lot of, you know,

00:26:06.860 you're reading the news about people getting killed and murdered. Is that the same as a genocide? Is that the

00:26:11.580 same as, you know, a famine? Is that the same as something else? These are, these are discussions

00:26:15.640 that we can have, but to try and make it as what seems to be happening, that the refugee, the refugee

00:26:21.320 system is now an immigration stream is very, very different. And you cannot allow the refugee system 1.00

00:26:26.440 to be, to be downplayed and, and have that important role taken away from it and turn it into

00:26:32.700 just another refugee system. Sorry, another immigration system where people just don't like where they're 1.00

00:26:36.440 coming from. And so they're coming to Canada. 0.54

00:26:37.780 Yeah. And I'd be remiss to not point out as well that during this pandemic, Justin Trudeau finally

00:26:45.000 did what people like us have been calling on for quite a while, which is suspend the loophole. So

00:26:50.820 basically make it that even if someone comes across at one of these illegal ports, they're going to just

00:26:54.960 be turned around and sent back into the US, which proves that the government had it within its

00:26:59.800 enforcement means to do that. So there are a few options here. I mean, Canada could basically

00:27:05.060 continue to enforce this, appeal it. And if they had the ability to temporarily take that loophole

00:27:12.600 off the table now, I feel like they have some latitude in the future to make some changes on

00:27:18.100 this. I mean, the idea that a country's borders are not within its control is a very dangerous,

00:27:23.280 dangerous dynamic here. And that's why I think this court decision, just based on precedent alone,

00:27:28.280 is a concerning one. But if the government is going to continue to do what it's done for the

00:27:33.160 pandemic indefinitely, that would be, I think, a net positive.

00:27:36.220 And this is a line of argument that I never liked. And it was the line where, you know,

00:27:40.020 we're never going to stop 100% of the people from coming over. So there's no point in putting

00:27:43.840 all this attention. Well, we're never going to stop 100% of crime. So we should just not have

00:27:48.040 police, perhaps. You know, it's really, that's the line of argument. Now, there's a, on the flip

00:27:52.700 side, there's a question of you are never going to stop 100% of the people. So how much money do you

00:27:56.580 invest? And again, these are legitimate conversations. You know, people can sneak in,

00:28:00.220 the border is very large. It's a very large border. People can sneak in, in a lot of places,

00:28:04.340 but are we just going to not invest anything? Well, I don't think so. We have to invest something

00:28:08.680 and we have to make sure we have robust systems in place to deal with the majority of the problem.

00:28:13.380 And the majority of the problem seems to be solvable.

00:28:16.800 Yep. Very well said. So we, we always try to end things on somewhat of a good note here. Now,

00:28:24.560 this one I'm putting with a big asterisk. I'm not sure this first story

00:28:28.720 is what I'd class as a good news story. I didn't put it in here. Tell me what's going on, Sam.

00:28:34.080 All right. So it looks like MPP Goldie Gamari is on TikTok. She is on fire making a lot of- 0.96

00:28:41.300 Hang on. Just, if you're not from Ontario, an MPP is what we call our MLAs here because we have to

00:28:45.760 be different. Oh, thank you. So she is the, she is an MPP, so a member of the provincial legislature,

00:28:51.740 and she has been making TikToks about masks and a number of other things. I guess she's,

00:28:57.680 you know, getting in with the cool kids, making all those TikToks. I know I have,

00:29:01.000 I have some young kids myself that are all over TikTok. So I guess, I don't know,

00:29:03.780 maybe she's trying to reach out to that audience, but some people liked it. Some people didn't like

00:29:07.800 it. Some, some specific people didn't, really didn't like it. But I don't know. We spoke about

00:29:13.620 it just before coming on. I'm mixed.

00:29:15.160 By the way, including one of our own, Devin Drover, who's a True North columnist,

00:29:19.700 is one of those people who I think has probably been the loudest on like the anti-TikTok side of

00:29:24.120 this. Yeah, look, I'm mixed. I understand the need for trying new things. You know,

00:29:28.600 I could imagine maybe when Twitter was a new thing and Facebook was a new thing saying like,

00:29:32.680 oh, this is ridiculous. Why are you posting on this, you know, this new thing? Who's reading this?

00:29:36.020 You know, you have like two followers. All right. I'm all for trying new things. I don't know.

00:29:40.020 I understand, as you said previously, making light of a situation, but I don't know.

00:29:44.800 I mean, if it's done in good fun, if maybe if she's getting out the message, I can handle

00:29:48.480 a little shtick. I can handle a little silliness. You know, I guess I would judge it for video.

00:29:52.980 I'll upvote or downvote her videos accordingly.

00:29:55.220 Okay. Well, let's, let's watch the video first. Let's roll this.

00:30:14.800 Okay. So as you can see, they're not just wearing a plague mask, but taking the plague mask onto the

00:30:34.360 floor of the Ontario legislature. Now I am of the mindset that look, I have a sense of humor and I

00:30:39.780 make light of things. I mean, there's a reason that my show is called Canada's most irreverent

00:30:43.260 talk show, a title I've held unchallenged for seven years now. But I also think that there are certain

00:30:49.100 spaces that are meant to be for lack of better terms, sacred. And I don't mean that in a spiritual

00:30:53.120 way, but in a way that is steeped in tradition. And I would argue the Ontario legislature is one

00:30:57.940 of those places. So taking a plague mask to make a joke or a mockery of something that is serious

00:31:05.280 onto the floor of the legislature. That's the issue that I have. It's not the TikTok issue.

00:31:09.500 It's where she chose to wear that mask. I, maybe I'm just the curmudgeon though. I don't know.

00:31:14.720 Oh, who knows? I don't know. Maybe we'll, we're both getting up there and then, you know,

00:31:17.860 so it's like that principal Skinner meme, you know, is, am I wrong? No, no, it's the children who are

00:31:23.180 wrong, you know? So who knows? Okay. So let's then, okay. So let's just, you know, ask everyone,

00:31:30.960 weigh in on the comments. Was this good? Was this bad? Or do you have no clue why we're

00:31:35.040 talking about it? Because I'm on team three, but like I said, I'm a team player. So it's on our

00:31:40.100 list of stories to talk to. So I did my part. Let's end with a real good news story. You'll be

00:31:45.480 happy to hear this, Devin. We're moving on. A couple ties the knot at the U.S.-Canada border.

00:31:51.320 She's American, he's Canadian. And there's a video clip here from Huffington Post Canada of how they

00:31:56.740 managed to have a wedding despite the border closure. Let's roll this.

00:32:05.040 So I'll try this.

00:32:11.140 Damn.

00:32:12.740 I'm slamming this.

00:32:19.220 I'm smashing it again.

00:32:23.240 I'm coming from Huffington Post African .

00:32:25.660 I'm coming from Huffington Post Canada,

00:32:28.260 the world trip in Huffington Post Canada,

00:32:31.480 but the Jeff Huffington Post Canada,

00:32:34.340 We'll be right back.

00:33:04.340 We'll be right back.

00:33:34.340 Although there is actually, believe it or not, there is like a little gate, I think

00:33:37.920 it's called like the gate of love or the gate of hope or something at the U.S.-Mexico border

00:33:41.800 where people do weddings there because they like open it up and you can actually kind

00:33:46.240 of have a cross-border thing.

00:33:47.880 But thankfully, we don't have a protected border in this particular context.

00:33:52.160 So I was glad they were able to do that, get the Canadian side on one and the American

00:33:56.020 side on the other.

00:33:57.260 Love knows no borders.

00:33:58.480 Love knows no pandemics.

00:34:00.220 No, and it was a really touching story because there's so many things that can just get

00:34:04.500 you down these days.

00:34:05.300 You know, you go on Twitter, you go online, you see so many things that are depressing.

00:34:09.020 You know, you kind of, as things are opening back up, you might miss doing some of the

00:34:12.840 things you used to do.

00:34:13.720 And it's very easy to be down these days.

00:34:15.460 And I'm really, it's really nice to see two people who found love, who found each other.

00:34:18.680 And, you know, they're able to get married as best as possible given the circumstances.

00:34:22.200 But it is really a beautiful thing to see two people who love each other get married.

00:34:25.960 Yeah, I know a lot of people have had to cancel weddings or postpone them a year.

00:34:31.020 I know of a few people that have done it anyway.

00:34:33.520 I think I've had four or five friends that have basically done Zoom slash Facebook live

00:34:38.080 weddings.

00:34:38.740 And that was even earlier on in the pandemic before you could have anyone there.

00:34:42.920 I know some people now that have just moved outdoor weddings and some people that have

00:34:46.800 just delayed them indefinitely.

00:34:48.460 I saw one friend of mine that had like a face mask knitted or crocheted or so.

00:34:54.080 I, to be honest, I know absolutely nothing about fabric, but made in some fashion to match

00:34:59.380 her veil and dress.

00:35:01.340 And I think my wife was like, my wife would like cancel the wedding altogether unless it 0.99

00:35:06.860 could be perfect.

00:35:07.500 So I think we, had we not been married already, I think she would have been on team.

00:35:10.420 Let's just do it in 2021.

00:35:11.940 But people are adapting.

00:35:13.540 That's it.

00:35:14.360 Like I said, we need more happiness in the world.

00:35:16.300 It's good for people to be able to find happiness and bring happiness into the world.

00:35:19.820 And that's, you know, that's what I like to see.

00:35:21.880 And no one wore a plague mask to the wedding.

00:35:23.840 No, no.

00:35:24.480 Or made a TikTok.

00:35:25.500 Yeah, Goli Gamari wasn't an invited guest, clearly.

00:35:28.760 All right.

00:35:29.080 Well, we ended it on a real good note.

00:35:30.700 Thanks to all of you for tuning in, to Phil and Oliver for making things happen in the

00:35:36.180 back end.

00:35:36.620 And of course, to Sam, thanks very much.

00:35:38.620 Yeah, thank you for having me.

00:35:39.480 It's been a pleasure.

00:35:40.100 All right.

00:35:40.400 Well, all is right in the world next week.

00:35:42.720 Candice will be back to her rightful spot hosting. 0.97

00:35:44.900 And I am going to put in a plug as well for the Independent Press Gallery Conservative

00:35:48.800 Leadership Debate, which I will be moderating.

00:35:52.040 Candice will be hosting.

00:35:53.300 And Sam will be playing a great role doing the pre-show and post-show commentary.

00:35:58.160 We fired Ben Mulroney.

00:35:59.440 He was our original red carpet guy.

00:36:01.340 And now it's going to be True North's own Sam Eskenazi.

00:36:04.300 So that's going to be next Wednesday.

00:36:06.080 Pre-show starts.

00:36:06.900 I think it's like 645 or something.

00:36:08.540 But tune in.

00:36:09.480 We'll have all the details for you in the days to come.

00:36:11.960 That's it for us.

00:36:12.720 Thank you.

00:36:13.060 God bless.

00:36:13.700 And good day, Canada.

00:36:14.900 Thank you.

Juno News - July 24, 2020

Will the Liberals throw another female minority under the bus？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript