Juno News - Will violence and looting accomplish anything？

00:00:00.000 hi and welcome to the Candace Malcolm show just given everything that's happening in the world in

00:00:10.520 the United States up here in Canada over the last few days I thought it would be a great idea to sit

00:00:15.280 down with my friend Leo Knight Leo is a true north fellow he's also a former Canadian police officer

00:00:21.360 a security expert and a media commentator he is an expert on all things related to crime and

00:00:26.520 justice and he is the founder and editor of the website primetime crime Leo thank you so much for

00:00:32.220 joining me you're very welcome so yeah everyone's trying to make sense of what is going on with these

00:00:38.400 protests it seems to me like they were sparked by a very legitimate sort of movement of seeing a

00:00:44.820 really gruesome murder or death on behalf of a police officer seemed really unjust and I think

00:00:50.100 that there was near universal condemnation towards that officer and you know outcry about the killing

00:00:56.340 of George Floyd but but what we saw was that the protest kind of morphed into something different

00:01:02.220 it turned sort of violent and it no longer really seems to be about that one instance of police

00:01:07.440 brutality it's sort of just marked into a general anti-american anti-capitalist protest I just want

00:01:14.580 to right off the bat what what do you make of the protest I mean do you think these protesters are

00:01:18.100 are hurting their own cause when they turn violent oh absolutely I think they're hurting their own cause but

00:01:24.360 there's really two groups here there's the protesters over the uh the death uh in Minnesota and the other

00:01:33.040 group are those who are just taking advantage and that's who I'm talking about with the anti-fog guys

00:01:39.060 uh now they'll seize upon any advantage to uh to inject themselves into it and as we've seen in a number of

00:01:48.360 cities the looting and whatnot is just uh it's going crazy but that's what they want they want a new big

00:01:55.760 screen tv and uh and so on and they don't really give a heck what happened in Minnesota well so so you

00:02:03.600 you think that these the sort of riot and the vandalism and looting has been driven by do you think

00:02:10.680 it's sort of an antifa like centrally driven and movement that they were just wet what ready and waiting

00:02:16.500 to seize on the opportunity we sort of saw that with the blockades that happened this year earlier

00:02:20.620 um in in Canada when the railways were just completely blocked and didn't really seem to be

00:02:25.340 about the environment or you know sympathy with the with the few aboriginal chiefs heretic chiefs that

00:02:31.200 uh were opposed to it but but really it was just you know the same antifa stuff like they hate

00:02:35.360 capitalism they hate our society they want to tear it all down um you know how how are they so quick

00:02:40.660 to organize it do you really think that that is the driving force at this point

00:02:43.820 well there's a couple of aspects there where there's uh some antifa guys in most cities uh we

00:02:51.440 have them in Canada too and uh we saw them in Montreal last week and in Toronto and to a smaller degree in

00:02:57.560 Vancouver um but we also know that uh somebody you know we think it was George Soros but we're not sure

00:03:07.620 it uh was flying these guys into uh Minnesota into Minneapolis and uh I'd be willing to bet that

00:03:17.020 they've uh flown their way around the country a little bit just to make sure everything goes as

00:03:22.620 badly as possible and so what what is the point of it I mean you mentioned a second ago that

00:03:28.040 some people are just interested in you know a new flat screen tv and we've certainly seen that

00:03:32.500 in Montreal the the looting of a guitar store I don't really know what grabbing a few you know

00:03:37.860 luxury guitars uh has to do with justice for police brutality um but but but again it almost seems to

00:03:44.700 be two different types of people you know those that are kind of just in it because they have nothing

00:03:49.420 better to do and they're angry and sure if they can get some free sneakers they're going to go for it

00:03:53.940 then you know the other type that the type that are really angry dressed in black organizing like you

00:04:00.380 say perhaps even funded um you know how do these two groups uh find each other and align each other

00:04:06.820 do they have much in common or are they just sort of protesting side by side uh you may have missed

00:04:13.700 what I said Candace but uh one of the groups is the actual true uh protesters who are protesting the death

00:04:23.000 caused apparently by a police officer uh it was on video and it was just uh horrific for anybody who saw it

00:04:31.880 and uh that's one group the other group I think is the uh the social misfits the Antifa

00:04:39.380 uh they are um and there's several aspects of them but uh they're the ones who want to cause as much

00:04:50.380 trouble as possible bearing in mind that uh until the Antifa people showed up the protesters were

00:04:59.160 fairly peaceful the only thing that I would slightly disagree with you on is I would say

00:05:04.180 that there's probably three groups of people then there's the peaceful protesters that are Black Lives

00:05:08.440 Matter people and you know not not solely Black people but you know Black Lives Matter kind of

00:05:13.960 movement and then there's a violent people and the violent people are kind of two groups of people

00:05:17.820 one the mostly suburban mostly white Antifa members and then there's also a group of rioters

00:05:24.480 that seem like they're more like inner city Black kids that don't really have a lot going for them

00:05:30.280 other than just seizing on this opportunity to get to get some you know to to loot and to raid

00:05:35.620 I would agree with you there Candace but both the Antifa types and the inner city kids that are just

00:05:42.220 starting trouble they're both in it basically for the same reason and that's uh there's an opportunity

00:05:48.260 here let's use it to cause as much trouble as possible uh what's disturbed me about it all is

00:05:54.840 is some of the um the exceptionally violent stuff you know there's that that woman uh who uh had her store

00:06:05.880 and they were coming after her store so she went outside to try and stop them and then her husband who

00:06:11.120 was inside the store came out to try and defend her and they beat them both I mean you know there's no

00:06:18.840 if you run away with a black screen tv or a big screen tv I understand what your motivation was as

00:06:25.600 much as I disagree with it but if you beat somebody just because they're there you know I I don't get

00:06:32.760 that at all yeah there seems to be a lot of really unfortunate messages that are being sort of portrayed

00:06:38.780 Leo like even just through the graffiti that you see I've seen um you know an eye for an eye um the

00:06:45.060 idea I've seen someone spray paint uh kill one back as in like kill a police officer back so

00:06:50.140 you know one of one of my issues that I'm having and again I would say that I'm very sympathetic with

00:06:55.540 with the protesters I think that there are some legitimate grievances and obviously the death of

00:06:59.800 George Floyd is is an example of something that that was uh as as we both agree I think in most

00:07:06.040 decent people actually I've yet to see anyone say um that that this wasn't uh an instance of police

00:07:11.880 brutality and that it wasn't a bad kill um and you know the the officer that's done it is now being

00:07:17.100 charged I think that that the charge has been upgraded to second degree murder and he's been

00:07:21.020 fired and all that kind of stuff so there has been some wheels of justice in motion the other three

00:07:25.440 officers who who were there who didn't do anything to help uh George Floyd have also been charged with

00:07:31.560 sort of aiding and abetting murder I think those are the charges um but but but anyway you know

00:07:36.980 regardless of the legitimacy of the protests you know when you see things evolve into into chaos and

00:07:42.900 violence and and and assault you kind of have to wonder um what why are why are these protesters still

00:07:49.420 getting positive news coverage why do the mainstream media insist that this is a peaceful protest and

00:07:54.780 why aren't they covering uh you know some of the more unfortunate aspects of the rioting now

00:08:00.260 Leo I know I know you're a policing expert um but but I thought maybe you know you'd have an

00:08:04.920 opinion as to you know the bias uh media coverage that we're seeing well some of the stuff I've seen

00:08:11.260 has just been absolutely dobsmacking you know when they're saying that they define these people

00:08:17.640 they're breaking and looting stores and they're they're called protesters and then when that start

00:08:23.040 does doesn't uh continue to work for them then they somehow pivot and they're white supremacists

00:08:30.260 you know it's it makes no sense to me at all yeah I was I was going to ask you about that we have

00:08:36.120 seen um some uh prominent left-wing voices in in the U.S. and and even some Democrats uh saying that

00:08:44.580 the that the white people that are involved in the protests aren't Antifa but they're actually white

00:08:48.840 nationalists posing as Antifa I haven't seen any evidence of that um from a policing standpoint Leo

00:08:55.180 have you seen any evidence to support that why do you think they're making that claim well every uh

00:09:00.840 every event that I've watched that Antifa has been involved with it's been primarily whites who live

00:09:07.460 in their mom's basement and uh the easiest way to describe them would be to call them losers

00:09:13.020 and uh they're just looking to go out they're looking to find a cause

00:09:18.280 or at least a trigger event and then they'll go out and and do whatever it is they're going to do

00:09:25.000 but you know we look at some of the events in Portland when that uh young reporter Andy Ngo

00:09:31.760 uh got attacked you know I mean it's just it's senseless stuff

00:09:37.280 yeah and it's really a travesty that the that the media only uh reports one side of it

00:09:43.440 uh another kind of related question Leo um other observers that I've seen in this one I feel is

00:09:49.480 just almost like a head scratcher but authorities in Minnesota um as well as the former UN ambassador

00:09:55.040 to um when Barack Obama was president Susan Rice um they've made claims that the uh riots and violence

00:10:02.380 have been instigated not by Antifa not by white nationalists not by Black Lives Matter but

00:10:06.840 but but but but infiltrated by foreign agents perhaps Russian uh again meddling in in domestic

00:10:16.140 affairs in the United States and pouring gasoline on the fire what do you what do you make of that uh

00:10:20.320 that sort of speculation I'll call it I've seen no evidence of that and certainly the uh

00:10:26.480 the Minnesota police whether it's Minneapolis or St. Paul uh or the straight troopers or the local

00:10:33.680 sheriffs uh nobody has ever mentioned anything like that Susan Rice uh as you recall from the

00:10:40.360 early days of the Trump uh presidency she just can't let go of the Russian conspiracy thing

00:10:47.460 and she really needs to yeah I mean you could kind of say you know if you were a foreign government

00:10:54.720 trying to destabilize the United States how would you do it and and and and pouring uh fire or pouring

00:11:00.440 gas in on this fire might be one but but I I've yet to really see any any evidence of that on on a

00:11:05.580 especially on a widespread um level but but there certainly seems to be some you know speculation

00:11:11.600 about it as well on online but you haven't seen anything that would support that no in fact uh the

00:11:17.360 numbers that came out from uh I think it was Minneapolis police last night said that of the 127 arrests

00:11:27.300 they made 84 of them were from elsewhere in the United States not from Minneapolis

00:11:33.680 so you know I'm not sure what exactly that's telling us except it's no longer a local cause celeb

00:11:41.840 well and we've seen the I mean the the the protests and the riots quickly quickly spread

00:11:47.380 and maybe this is a good opportunity Leo we've been compiling examples of of police officers that

00:11:53.240 have been attacked throughout these riots so I think it's it's valuable to sort of just go through

00:11:57.480 them I'm going to do it really quickly um but this is this is just a cursory overview I'm sure it's

00:12:02.040 not uh as comprehensive as it could be because it it was hasn't been updated for the last 24 hours or

00:12:07.320 so but in Albany New York an officer was sent to the hospital after protesters threw bricks at him

00:12:12.680 in Atlanta Georgia an officer underwent surgery after a protester hit him with an ATV Brockton Massachusetts

00:12:19.400 one state trooper and a few local Brockton police officers suffered minor injuries Buffalo New York

00:12:25.560 two police officers were hit by a vehicle and one has his leg broken and pelvis shattered after the

00:12:31.240 protest Champaign Illinois several several police officers suffered minor injuries after being

00:12:37.080 assaulted allegedly Cincinnati Cincinnati Ohio officer narrowly escaped death after a bullet struck his

00:12:44.360 helmet Columbia South Carolina 15 law enforcement personnel injured in a Saturday night riot Chicago

00:12:51.400 132 Chicago department police officers injured in violent city riots Danport Iowa plain clothed police

00:12:58.680 officer injured after an individual opened fire from his vehicle Denver Colorado three city police

00:13:04.760 officers sent to the hospital after a hit and run Harrisburg Pennsylvania two police officers sent to the

00:13:10.680 hospital during a violent protest Las Vegas Nevada one police officer put on life support after he was

00:13:16.200 shot in the head during a violent protest 12 additional officers are injured Los Angeles LAPD 27 officers

00:13:24.040 are injured during weekend rioting Lynchburg Virginia several officers were shot during a protest but

00:13:29.400 none were injured Minnesota police officers shot during a protest at a precinct in the city was sent on

00:13:36.120 fire on and a precinct in the city was set on fire by protesters Maryland protesters injured four county

00:13:42.520 police officers and damaged several police cruisers New York City dozens of NYPD police officers injured during

00:13:49.480 weekend rioting one video showing an officer being struck by a car in a hit and run Oakland Illinois three

00:13:56.440 officers injured during Monday's protests Oakland California this is just absolutely heartbreaking FBI officer

00:14:03.720 David Patrick Underwood was shot and killed while providing security for a courthouse another officer

00:14:09.640 was injured in a shooting Philadelphia Pennsylvania city police reported several assaults on us officers

00:14:15.720 and multiple police cars set on fire Pittsburgh Pennsylvania nine police officers hurt and sent to

00:14:20.760 hospital Richmond Virginia two officers hurt during a protest after being hit with a baseball bat and a

00:14:26.120 beer bottle Rhode Island nine officers injured amongst the rioting Sacramento California seven officers

00:14:32.840 received minor injuries at the hands of violent protesters Salt Lake City Utah 21 officers required medical

00:14:38.760 care San Antonio Texas three officers were injured after being hit with bricks and bottles San Jose

00:14:45.080 California several officers sustained injuries during protests one was sent to the hospital

00:14:50.760 Santa Atta California two officers have been taken to hospital after being hit in the head

00:14:55.160 by projectiles thrown at them St. Louis Missouri another heartbreaking story here 77 year old David

00:15:01.480 Dorn a retired police officer was shot dead by looters his death was broadcast live on Facebook four other police

00:15:08.760 officers were also shot in downtown St. Louis by violent protesters and finally Washington DC 11 police officers

00:15:16.600 injured during the protests one officer received surgery after being hit by a brick in the head over 50 members

00:15:23.000 of the secret service were also hurt during clashes some sustained injuries from Molotov cocktails now

00:15:28.680 leo i know that's a very long list but i i thought that you know just to hear and understand the extent to

00:15:33.880 it police are being attacked and injured and assaulted in in these protests and yet you know we we barely hear

00:15:41.720 anything about that so you know what what what do you make of the lack of coverage i'll say and and the violence

00:15:48.200 towards police well there was another one you missed too Candace was last night an NYPD officer in Brooklyn was stabbed in the neck

00:15:57.000 uh the the perp grabbed his gun up uh when he went down and then used that gun to randomly attack and shoot two other police officers

00:16:07.400 um i don't know what to make of that it's uh it's it's senseless would be my first word uh you know they

00:16:18.120 they they just want to start a war on police and uh heather mcdonald wrote a good book a couple of years

00:16:25.960 back called the war on cops and uh it was really a good book and she examines a lot of reasons for

00:16:32.680 these types of events and it's uh you know it it's beyond the rational thinking of you and me or anybody

00:16:42.120 else uh but somehow they get it in their brain that they're going to do that and then that's what

00:16:48.120 the uh they set out and do it yeah i i i'm a follower of heather mcdonald with the uh mcdonald

00:16:56.600 or sorry with the manhattan institute she also had a call on leo in the wall street journal yesterday

00:17:01.960 uh just kind of going through some of the statistics because i think that there's a lot

00:17:05.560 of well i mean she proves that there's sort of a lot of misconceptions when it comes to policing

00:17:12.200 uh people are told and believe um that black people are far more likely to be killed by officers

00:17:17.480 she sort of debunks some of those myths and talks about how you know there's been lots of comprehensive

00:17:22.600 studies of police forces and they don't really find what the protesters sort of accuse accuse police

00:17:30.200 of doing that do you have any do you have any criticisms of police leo i know you know you and i

00:17:35.000 both agree that the that the actions from what we can see in the videos against george floyd seem

00:17:40.280 absolutely uh you know abhorrent and it doesn't seem like a good situation one of the criticisms

00:17:46.440 i've heard is that a lot of police officers have been told to stand down and sort of give the rioter

00:17:51.160 space to riot particularly the beginning um and that there wasn't a lot of police presence in major

00:17:55.640 cities i know there's been video for instance in santa monica california of the police just standing

00:17:59.880 there while people were looting um i believe this was happening all over the united states uh

00:18:04.680 maybe you can comment on that let me know if you have any other criticisms of police forces well

00:18:09.880 in regards to the stand down orders candace i mean that's not from the police leadership that's from

00:18:16.040 the uh political uh dare i call it leadership in those cities and i will notice well that every one

00:18:23.720 of these cities that have these uh these incidents over the course of the last nine days or so uh are all

00:18:32.200 democrat run cities uh you know if you look at new york you've got a dem democrat governor cuomo you've

00:18:40.360 got a democrat mayor who's as left as it gets in de blasio and uh nobody will admit to giving a stand

00:18:48.440 down order uh de blasio did admit to saying go light on them uh you know you if you handcuff the police

00:18:57.720 the police are going to have a really hard time doing their job and and and how about anything

00:19:03.480 more you know we're hearing a lot about systemic problems in police forces and how you put police

00:19:08.600 brutality is a major problem do you think that any of those arguments have credence or do you think it's

00:19:13.960 just sort of ideological hyperbole yeah not really i mean there's occasional idiots like that guy in

00:19:23.480 minneapolis i mean there's no excuse for what he did in any way shape or form uh was it what we even

00:19:32.680 don't know if that was racist driven uh we just know that he he knelt on the guy's neck when he was

00:19:39.240 already secured and killed him um you know for he he kneeled there for over three and a half seconds

00:19:46.200 until after the guy stopped breathing i mean there's no excuse for that was that racist driven

00:19:53.800 we don't know yet and i'm sure we probably won't even know until it goes to trial yeah we can find

00:20:00.440 out what the guy's attitude was like and why he was targeting uh george floyd in that situation i know we

00:20:06.040 talked about this a little bit offline leo but i thought we could talk about it again because we were

00:20:11.240 kind of reminiscing uh about 10 years ago there was a huge riot well at the time it was considered

00:20:16.040 a huge riot in in in vancouver which is the city that i'm from the city that you live in and it was

00:20:22.120 after the canucks lost in the stanley cup finals against the bruins there was a big riot it's 2011

00:20:27.400 and it was sort of seen as like a national disgrace like like vancouver developed a reputation as this

00:20:33.080 like city that had this big riot and you know i remember as a canuck fan i was mocked for a long time

00:20:38.360 by a lot of people um but when you look back at that riot and you compare it to what's going on

00:20:43.880 today even if you compare what's going on in 2020 to the sort of civil unrest that we saw after a man

00:20:50.760 was shot and killed in ferguson missouri back in 2014 which prompted the whole hands up don't shoot

00:20:57.000 thing which i i think that that was a little bit overblown i think that the idea that this guy has

00:21:01.400 hands up has been thoroughly debunked but anyway we can talk about that a little bit but maybe you

00:21:06.840 could just discuss how how riots have evolved in the last decade um why things were so calm

00:21:12.920 relatively you know in 2011 with that vancouver riot compared to the riots we're seeing today

00:21:18.440 well typically a riot uh you know such as the 2011 riot in vancouver is very localized uh you know

00:21:29.880 there's no question that they went out that night uh right after the third period and just started

00:21:36.200 rioting right away right outside the cbc uh studios on georgia street um but typically they're very

00:21:44.120 localized i've seen a number of them i've been in a number of them as a police officer and uh you know

00:21:52.280 what happens in ottawa as an example uh doesn't necessarily trickle over to toronto or whatever else

00:22:01.160 what we're seeing in this particular case seems to have grown a life of its own candace

00:22:09.880 yeah it certainly seems like it's ongoing and there doesn't really seem to be an end in sight i mean

00:22:15.560 this is almost coming on a week now i think it might be a week and uh they're still sort of we're still

00:22:21.000 seeing videos emerge like you said you know still seeing police assaulted in major u.s cities well leo i

00:22:27.320 really appreciate your time just one one more question you know you've had a career in police

00:22:31.640 officers you've seen it from the from the other side from the side of the officers uh for people

00:22:35.880 out there watching maybe even people that don't agree with what you and i are saying well what would

00:22:39.880 you like people to know about police officers and the police force and what it's like to be a police

00:22:44.520 particularly a police trying to protect a city in the middle of a riot from a police perspective the

00:22:51.640 police know that their job is to serve and protect the society uh and they will do that job in the

00:22:59.000 same way that uh emergency health care workers that know their job is to uh to go and deal with whatever

00:23:07.320 health emergency they're dealing with and they take appropriate precautions as police do as well

00:23:14.280 as well back to my earlier point about the stand down orders there's nothing more ridiculous in my

00:23:22.280 mind than a local leadership a mayor or or whatever uh uh taking telling a police leader on the ground

00:23:33.480 how he has to respond first off the mayor knows absolutely nothing about police work uh he knows nothing

00:23:40.600 about crowd control or how to put down a riot or anything along those lines and yet he's saying

00:23:46.920 for purely political reasons that uh the police should stand down and i just think that's abhorrent

00:23:54.360 well yeah i mean especially because you know things change on the ground and the situation can be

00:23:59.640 really intense and scary as we as we know just even hearing that long long list of assaults and

00:24:04.840 attacks against police officers these people are obviously putting their own life on the line and doing it

00:24:10.200 because they have a sense of duty and and that it's their job so well leo thank you so much for

00:24:15.320 helping us understand and help shine some light on some of the issues regarding policing in both the

00:24:21.640 united states and canada really really appreciate your time thanks for joining us you're very welcome

00:24:26.280 canada really appreciate your time

Juno News - June 05, 2020

Will violence and looting accomplish anything？

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