JustPearlyThings - November 10, 2023


Feminist DESTROYED On Women's Sports DEBATE


Episode Stats


Length

9 minutes

Words per minute

194.78279

Word count

1,807

Sentence count

135

Harmful content

Misogyny

39

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Ever since Hannah Dingley took over at Forest Green in pre-season, there have been calls for a female manager to take charge of England's women's national team. Should a woman take over at Chelsea Women? Megan Garbutt and feminism critic Pearl Davies weigh in on the matter.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.160 Hi there, it's 8.35. Now, the manager of the Lionesses has come out and stirred things up a bit, frankly,
00:00:07.340 because she said that it's only a matter of time before a female manager takes full-time charge of a men's team. 1.00
00:00:15.040 What a shock.
00:00:16.100 Shock, horror. We've got a flavour for full-time female management in the men's game 1.00
00:00:19.940 when Hannah Dingley took the reins at Forest Green in pre-season.
00:00:24.440 But should it happen again?
00:00:25.940 Well, on one side of the debate, we've got football journalist Megan Garbutt.
00:00:30.000 Who says the women's game has grown massively over the years, and the quality of the coaching has too.
00:00:35.400 Yes, but social media star and feminism critic Pearl Davies thinks female appointments are often more political than earned. 1.00
00:00:43.240 And they both join us now. Good morning to you, Pearl. What's wrong with this?
00:00:48.860 Well, I would say the issue you have in women's sports is it becomes a political agenda 1.00
00:00:53.820 rather than giving the best person that is there for the job.
00:00:57.580 And that is my issue, is when it becomes, really, I don't even think it matters if it's man or woman.
00:01:03.940 I think it is the most competent person for the job.
00:01:06.860 Why do we keep going back to a female manager, a female manager? 1.00
00:01:10.920 It should just be the best manager for the job.
00:01:13.520 But are you worried, then, that there would be token appointments?
00:01:17.180 Somebody wanting to make a point would appoint a female manager 1.00
00:01:20.300 when actually there may be a man around who would be better?
00:01:22.860 Yeah, my biggest issue is when it becomes a political agenda.
00:01:27.800 I don't think, as women, we need special handouts or special treatment. 0.99
00:01:31.740 I think the best person for the job should get the job.
00:01:35.020 OK, Megan, what's your take on this?
00:01:38.900 I totally agree with what Pearl's saying.
00:01:41.020 It should go to whoever deserves the job.
00:01:43.340 But I think the people that do make those appointments will look at it that way.
00:01:47.380 I don't think anyone would appoint a female just for the sake of it.
00:01:51.340 I mean, you look at what Emma Hayes has done at Chelsea Women. 1.00
00:01:54.320 Obviously, she's leaving at the end of the season.
00:01:56.020 But there's no reason why she would not be able to take charge of the men's team
00:02:00.800 high up in the English game or anywhere in the world.
00:02:04.400 Because, frankly, they get the same coaching.
00:02:07.960 They've had access to the same coaching badges.
00:02:10.420 They've got the same skills, expertise, the same knowledge.
00:02:13.560 So there shouldn't be a problem with it at all.
00:02:16.020 And yet people seem to be scandalized, don't they?
00:02:18.680 I mean, what's wrong?
00:02:19.720 Why are we even making an issue of it?
00:02:21.940 Well, I would say even when women are polled, they do not prefer female bosses. 1.00
00:02:26.560 So I would say women in general struggle in positions of leadership. 0.99
00:02:29.880 I don't think we're naturally good at it.
00:02:32.140 I do think there are exceptions to the rule, as there are in anything.
00:02:35.920 But I do see it being a political agenda where they do not put the best women or they do not
00:02:42.700 put the best person in the position.
00:02:44.560 They just put women in because they're women. 1.00
00:02:46.260 Why do you think, Pearl, that women are not natural leaders? 1.00
00:02:51.400 I just think there are things that women are naturally good at and men are naturally good at.
00:02:56.540 Women just tend to be more agreeable. 1.00
00:02:58.860 And the trait disagreeability tends to be better for...
00:03:02.900 Men tend to be more that way, where women tend to be more agreeable.
00:03:06.800 You've forgotten Margaret Thatcher and Liz Truss and various other prime ministers.
00:03:10.900 Well, if you want to look at women in positions of political power, 1.00
00:03:14.280 they're actually more violent and more willing to wage war.
00:03:18.160 So I actually think that women do struggle in positions of political power as well. 1.00
00:03:23.340 For example, your shortest prime minister ever here was a woman. 0.87
00:03:29.300 Megan, what's your take on whether women can... 1.00
00:03:33.560 Do women have the same ability to lead a team? 1.00
00:03:37.400 And particularly, I guess, when you're talking about leading a team of sort of young
00:03:42.340 and, I suppose, a little bit bolshy men on a football team.
00:03:46.840 I mean, look, we know football has been a male-dominated sport for so long
00:03:51.960 and that, you know, that should not be the case anymore.
00:03:54.680 It should be equal.
00:03:56.000 But, yeah, obviously there's going to be different challenges
00:03:58.000 when it comes to managing a men's team to a women's team.
00:04:01.180 Yes, you're going to have the, you know, the men want to make a name for themselves
00:04:06.260 individually as well as a team.
00:04:07.700 So you have got to manage those, you know, those different attitudes in the team.
00:04:11.380 But there isn't any reason that people like Serena Vigman or Emma Hayes
00:04:15.220 or other women managers, there's no reason they can't do that. 1.00
00:04:19.420 Well, I just think if women were so good at managing a team, 1.00
00:04:22.200 they would be better at managing their league.
00:04:24.280 I mean, women, by and large, women's leagues are not profitable. 1.00
00:04:28.040 Women's leagues do not make money. 1.00
00:04:29.480 So how are we going to say we are so great and amazing and awesome
00:04:32.740 at managing a team when we can't even manage our own league?
00:04:36.080 The majority of women's leagues really are subsidized by the men.
00:04:40.760 I think the WSL is creating so much revenue at the minute
00:04:44.540 and even women's football in America is, you know,
00:04:47.380 really equal to the men's game as well, I think.
00:04:49.960 It's not equal at all.
00:04:50.740 It's making a ridiculous amount.
00:04:51.300 If you look at profits, it's not even close.
00:04:53.440 It's not equal.
00:04:55.160 But in terms of the people that are watching the game
00:04:57.480 and, you know, spending money on the game,
00:04:59.200 you know, it's making so much money to what it was,
00:05:02.200 you know, even five years ago.
00:05:03.960 And I don't see that there's any issue.
00:05:06.220 Well, compared to, yeah, if it's unprofitable.
00:05:08.000 And that's, again, which goes back to the problem.
00:05:09.920 Women's sports don't tend to make money. 1.00
00:05:12.320 If they do tend to make money,
00:05:14.140 it tends to be their monetizing sexuality in some way.
00:05:17.200 But really, by and large, women's sports do not make money. 1.00
00:05:20.340 And I've really seen this become a political issue over the years
00:05:23.520 where the women will cry and whine and bitch and moan about their pay 1.00
00:05:27.680 when, really, by and large, women do not deserve more money 1.00
00:05:31.780 because they do not make what the men make.
00:05:33.940 And it becomes a political issue where we want more money for less work.
00:05:37.640 And I can't stand it.
00:05:38.700 I'm a female athlete. 0.62
00:05:39.780 I've been in athletics for 16 years.
00:05:41.680 And I'm really sick of it becoming a handout off.
00:05:45.100 Who can get the most handouts?
00:05:47.120 Really, I think if women want more money 1.00
00:05:48.980 and they want to be in these positions,
00:05:50.300 we wouldn't have to keep saying we need females in these positions. 1.00
00:05:53.720 They would just be in those positions.
00:05:56.100 We need competent people.
00:05:57.740 There is a shortage of competent people in the world.
00:06:00.100 If you are competent, you will get the role.
00:06:02.800 And women want special handouts and treatments. 1.00
00:06:05.480 And we're even doing a whole segment on female managers.
00:06:08.540 What does that tell us?
00:06:09.480 That we're not competent enough, in general, to get the roles.
00:06:13.880 I think, obviously, we know that the men's game in football
00:06:17.520 and in other sports do produce more revenue.
00:06:19.900 But that doesn't mean the women's game doesn't produce revenue. 0.98
00:06:23.060 You just look at the WSL in England
00:06:24.700 and the men's grounds are being used to house the women's games now.
00:06:29.060 And they're selling out those grounds.
00:06:30.920 And that's just showing how far the game is coming.
00:06:33.040 And I think, you know, it is a matter of time
00:06:35.460 before someone breaks that barrier
00:06:37.040 and will manage a men's team higher.
00:06:38.820 By and large, women's sports operate at a loss.
00:06:42.420 The WNBA operates at a loss. 0.99
00:06:44.960 College athletics, women's college athletics,
00:06:47.420 it's subsidized by male athletics.
00:06:49.800 By and large, women's sports operates at a loss 0.91
00:06:52.400 just because maybe you could point to one small league somewhere
00:06:55.540 or one league, which really, by and large,
00:06:58.280 I don't know five female footballers.
00:07:01.200 Most people couldn't list you five female footballers.
00:07:05.060 And the only ones you can really list are the ones that have become political.
00:07:08.660 They make it a political movement.
00:07:10.560 And I think it ruins the sanctity of the sport
00:07:12.680 because we're more worried about getting a female manager 1.00
00:07:15.220 than we are in improving the game.
00:07:17.580 But, Pearl, it isn't part of the issue here.
00:07:20.760 You say, you know, the women can't manage it. 1.00
00:07:23.200 It's, you know, it's not as profitable as it could be
00:07:25.280 and all the rest of it.
00:07:26.340 But that's not down to the game.
00:07:28.380 It's not down to the players or the managers.
00:07:30.060 That's down to the public not supporting it in the same way.
00:07:33.560 And that is something, certainly in the U.K.,
00:07:35.980 that we are seeing start to change.
00:07:38.920 The public doesn't support it because it's not as entertaining.
00:07:41.740 I mean, do you, sir, can you list ten female soccer players?
00:07:45.880 Well, no, but I couldn't.
00:07:46.640 No, exactly.
00:07:47.540 That's my point.
00:07:48.460 Support us.
00:07:49.440 No, I couldn't.
00:07:50.080 Support us, please.
00:07:51.420 No, I couldn't.
00:07:52.220 That's my point.
00:07:53.320 That's my point.
00:07:53.860 No, no, no, no.
00:07:54.680 Because it's not entertaining.
00:07:55.780 That's a mute point because I couldn't name ten male players.
00:08:01.740 Yeah, and here's the thing.
00:08:03.580 I don't even watch soccer.
00:08:05.880 But, you know, really, by and large,
00:08:08.320 I could tell you more male players than female players
00:08:11.060 because the males are more entertaining.
00:08:13.720 And my thing is, ladies, ladies, ladies, ladies, 0.98
00:08:16.960 if you want people to watch, be more entertaining,
00:08:20.240 and then you will get more viewers.
00:08:22.080 Stop shaming the viewers.
00:08:23.140 If a product is not selling, you don't go to the market
00:08:26.580 and say, you bad customers, you're just not supporting my product.
00:08:30.740 You improve the product.
00:08:32.040 So I say improve the level of the game,
00:08:34.520 be more entertaining, and then people will watch.
00:08:36.820 Okay, Megan.
00:08:37.180 And if you're not willing to do that, stop crying to me about it.
00:08:40.280 Megan, last word from you.
00:08:42.900 I mean, you obviously don't sort of pay attention
00:08:45.840 to the WSL in England because that's got its own fan base in itself.
00:08:50.080 And if I ask most people to invest their time in the women's game, 0.98
00:08:55.100 if they can name five players,
00:08:56.520 they can probably name 50 women's players in the game 0.91
00:08:59.780 because they invest their time in it.
00:09:01.580 Let's go on the streets of England
00:09:03.140 and tell them name five female soccer players 1.00
00:09:05.780 and name five male soccer players.
00:09:07.720 Well, I tell you what, you've both been very entertaining
00:09:09.780 just on this subject.
00:09:11.820 But we've got to wind you up there.
00:09:14.120 But thanks very, very much indeed.
00:09:15.900 What?
00:09:16.540 What?