JustPearlyThings - Heated Debate On TRANS People In SPORTS

00:00:00.000 What are you guys' opinions on trans people playing in sports of the opposite,

00:00:05.840 or like trans women playing in women's sports? Go ahead. 0.99

00:00:11.520 I feel like it's something that cannot be generalized. I feel like every sport is different.

00:00:18.880 Every sport has a different skill set. Every sport has different levels of contact,

00:00:27.280 different aspects that you need that could either benefit or not be benefited by the use of like

00:00:35.520 hormones. So I think personally, it's something that can't be generalized and it's something that

00:00:43.120 has to be seen as like a sort of like subject by subject situation or matter.

00:00:48.240 Okay. What about for volleyball? That was the example I used.

00:00:52.240 Volleyball, see, I mean, it depends on how much depth you want to go into. I mean,

00:00:57.760 I don't know volleyball to a certain extent. I can imagine that, you know, if, for example,

00:01:03.680 you've got someone who is female to male and they're taking testosterone and they're playing with 0.99

00:01:09.440 like cis women, you could comment on the fact that testosterone allows like, 1.00

00:01:15.200 um, like muscle, muscle build quicker or like, you know, they feel they might get like a harder,

00:01:21.200 a harder spike, for example. But then I know some insanely strong cis women. So does that really 1.00

00:01:28.560 take things like into another dimension in the game? I don't know, to be honest.

00:01:33.600 So I don't think there's been enough research or enough, um,

00:01:38.000 yeah, I don't, I don't think there's been enough of a look into it. Okay. So for the time being,

00:01:43.840 what do you think they should do? Should we integrate or should we keep them separate?

00:01:46.880 Well, as far as volleyball goes? Yeah. Volleyball, women's and men's sports in general.

00:01:51.440 Again, I can't, I can't say. Okay. You don't know. Your answer could be, I don't know.

00:01:55.680 Yeah. It can't be generalized in my idea, in my opinion. Okay. Go ahead.

00:01:59.200 You're okay. Well, the problem is I can talk a lot and I don't want to like drown these guys out,

00:02:03.840 but I can go now if you want. Yeah. Should I let the others speak?

00:02:08.000 I don't know. Cause I can talk for a lot. It's up to you, you know, either go or don't go.

00:02:14.080 So I almost have a similar opinion to you. It does depend on the sport and the governing body.

00:02:19.760 Um, but there are a number of things that I would do probably differently because testosterone isn't

00:02:24.160 the only thing we should be taking into account depending on the sport, especially because there

00:02:30.160 are a number of differences between men and women that aren't changed just by taking hormones.

00:02:36.800 Um, for example, men have more type two muscle fibers and women have more type one type two is

00:02:43.440 more for bursts of strength and type one is for endurance. So women are better in endurance and are 1.00

00:02:50.160 better at like running really fast. So an obvious example of where I think it may end up being unfair

00:02:56.880 would maybe be with sprinting. Um, but the longer the distance, the running, the more fair it becomes.

00:03:04.160 Um, with volleyball, volleyball is really difficult. And I played a lot of team sports when I was a kid,

00:03:10.640 not volleyball. I played netball, which is the girl, bad version of basketball and rounders,

00:03:16.080 which is the bad girl version. Um, baseball is really English, bad sports. They kind of suck. I don't 0.99

00:03:25.520 know why they make us do those, but I will say, so assuming we're talking like at school level, so like

00:03:33.760 before anyone's really had time to transition or do much, I played with boys in rounders and it was not

00:03:40.080 fun. They hit the ball for like 10 times further and then I'm out there in like the depth of field

00:03:45.600 running after the damn balls for like most of the game. So I will say like there are issues with it. Um, 0.99

00:03:52.480 it kind of depends on what level, which game and how you're integrating people. Um, I am an advocate for

00:03:58.880 not throwing the baby out with the bath water. So I think it can work, but I don't know if it's working right now.

00:04:04.560 Okay. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, I think that they should just be able to play,

00:04:12.480 to be honest. I mean, even with people who are born a certain way, there's people that are better at

00:04:19.040 doing things than others. I mean, I understand that, uh, mainly for men who transition into women.

00:04:28.960 I think I understand what they're saying sometimes, for example, you know,

00:04:33.680 if it was to say like boxing, you know, um, a person who was born a man and then transitioning

00:04:40.400 to a woman, maybe later on in life, fully developed into puberty and then decides to get into a ring 1.00

00:04:47.680 with a woman who was born a woman. I think that might be a bit techie, but I think the whole point

00:04:54.720 of transitioning is to be who you feel you are. And if you've got an interest in, if you have an interest

00:05:01.680 and a passion in sport, I don't think you shouldn't be allowed to play that sport because you've

00:05:07.840 decided to transition. I understand how it can be unfair with physically, but it comes with it,

00:05:16.400 you know, it comes with it, I think. So I just think that.

00:05:19.840 What do you think? I just don't think it's fair. Um, even if we just take things like height,

00:05:24.160 like I'm in the top 1% of height for females. And I was like short when it came to getting recruited

00:05:28.960 for colleges. Like if we brought men in there, I'd be in the top 15%. And like, I really wouldn't have

00:05:34.400 any opportunity if men were, you know, even if it's like trans women, like after they transition, 0.78

00:05:39.040 the height stays the same.

00:05:40.880 Yeah. I think usually like, for example, with my previous example with boxing, there's usually like

00:05:44.640 weight classes. So with boxing is probably like a little bit okay. Cause you'd be matched fairly.

00:05:51.680 But, um, like you said about, um, running, I don't, I'm not too sure. I don't know that information

00:05:58.480 about, um, I think you said, sorry, what did you say? Like sprinting one or T two or something?

00:06:04.160 Yeah. Twitch muscle fibers. So men and women tend to have a different percentage of both.

00:06:08.880 But why do men win in marathons then?

00:06:12.800 Um, so when I say endurance, I'm talking like ultra endurance is where men and women tend to be

00:06:18.480 where they compete together and women win often. Like it's about 50, 50 who's winning,

00:06:23.040 but ultra endurance.

00:06:24.000 That's like a very fringe, small group.

00:06:26.480 It's not fringe, but it is crazy because I mean, when you're doing these types of

00:06:31.920 ultra endurance swimming, there's a decent chance of death. Like somebody just died recently trying

00:06:37.040 to swim the channel crossing. So it's not so much niche.

00:06:41.120 Have you seen those people that go off of Niagara Falls?

00:06:43.440 Yeah. I mean, it's difficult that they, they, I think it's Manhattan Island swimming and British 1.00

00:06:51.520 Island. Right. But my point is in general, men are faster, definitely faster. So if you,

00:06:57.120 as I said, sprinting that counts for short distance. Well, but even with marathons,

00:07:01.600 men are still faster. I mean, there, there might be like a fringe ultra marathon, but that's like

00:07:06.160 ultra endurance is definitely longer than a regular marathon. Yeah.

00:07:09.040 Right. But I'm saying more people compete in a marathon and you said it's still 50, 50 for ultra

00:07:13.440 endurance. I just can't imagine that's that popular of a sport.

00:07:16.960 It's very hard, obviously. A lot of people don't want to do it because it's as difficult as it is.

00:07:22.320 Clearly I could, I did a marathon. It was the worst day of my life.

00:07:24.880 Yeah. My, my mom was a long distance runner as well. 1.00

00:07:28.480 Now smoke, I have no chance.

00:07:29.760 It's a, it's a tough one. Um, but it just becomes, so men would have the disadvantage

00:07:36.080 because they don't have the same muscle fibers as women. So when they transition, 1.00

00:07:39.760 they don't have the advantage within that endurance necessarily. And assuming that there is

00:07:44.800 some negative impact to certain things when they're taking estrogen and some somewhat,

00:07:50.240 I think it's fine for endurance sports.

00:07:52.480 So what about, what about marathons you'd make it?

00:07:56.400 Um, so there are a number of sports. There are some where I'm sure it's fine. There are some where

00:08:02.640 I'm fairly sure it's not fine. And then there's some in the middle where I think we need more

00:08:07.440 research done. Like I'm not going to say no or yes to the ones in the middle. Cause, um, yeah,

00:08:12.560 I'm not sure. I do think that we need to study more, less just reduction of testosterone and more

00:08:19.120 the other things that make men, you know, stronger in various ways, like lung capacity and height to a point.

00:08:27.280 Oh, it's, it's super important. Cause I played basketball and volleyball. It's super important.

00:08:33.200 For volleyball and basketball, it is super important, but there's a bunch of sports where

00:08:36.960 height either doesn't matter or being shorter is actually beneficial. So that's why I say it does

00:08:41.120 depend on sport. But I think for the sports where height does matter, it is important to,

00:08:46.880 it might just be that we have to cap trans women. Like you can compete, but only if you're under the 1.00

00:08:53.360 height of the tallest women that can compete, right? Cause then you're not like four or five 1.00

00:08:58.000 inches taller than they are or something. It's, it's, it's hard. And I, and I can appreciate that

00:09:02.960 you're in a difficult position with that. Yeah. But even if they're the same height,

00:09:07.440 it's like they're stronger than us in general. Yeah. Team sports, it's really difficult. Like,

00:09:14.480 like how many people are there on a volleyball? Six, five for basketball. Yeah. So it's like quite

00:09:20.080 impactful if he has, yeah. Team sports are the thing that I have the least amount of experience

00:09:26.880 with too. So I don't want to speak over you. Well, my, my thing is like, if we're going to title it

00:09:30.960 women's sports and men's sports, I think it's like misleading if we go to a tournament expecting it to

00:09:35.520 be women. And then there's, there's trans people there, you know, like, cause, cause then it's like,

00:09:40.320 I didn't agree to that. Like, I agreed to, to play in the way, like, cause that's why I was pissed off

00:09:44.960 this weekend because it was like these, like one, one of the teams would just set the trans,

00:09:50.160 trans woman every single time. And it's like, and one other team had, had four or five. And I'm like,

00:09:55.600 I just don't think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. It was Philippines and Brazil. It was called all nations.

00:10:00.400 So it's like from different Philippines and Brazil must just, yeah, it must be big there. So it was

00:10:04.960 those two. I always got the impression that that wasn't really enough transgender people to have their

00:10:09.360 own sort of sports. So I will hypothesize how I would temporarily fix this situation later.

00:10:14.560 Cause I'm not sure that everyone, cause these guys haven't really spoken yet.

00:10:18.160 So you're an athlete, so you've actually played, so you actively have, you can have an opinion

00:10:25.520 because you're in that situation. So personally, my opinion is, is that it's kind of, it's just

00:10:34.960 really a struggle I feel for like a female athlete. You're going there. Obviously you 1.00

00:10:39.760 just mentioned that you go there and it's like for transgender players on the opposing side.

00:10:45.120 And it's like, you do, do you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel like, oh, you know, I might not be able

00:10:51.200 to be, you know, like you're not comparable biologically. Do you know what I mean? Because

00:10:55.920 like there's like a difference. No, I don't think it's comparable. I mean, I've played with men.

00:10:59.760 So like, I've played like, um, co like basketball, like you always play at parks. So I've played

00:11:04.640 pickup, but I know if I play, I've played basketball for maybe 16 years. And I know if I go against

00:11:10.800 the guy who's played maybe five to seven, he'll beat me like easy. Yeah. I think it's like,

00:11:17.120 I personally feel like if there are, like you're saying, I mean, there's like four transgender people

00:11:22.880 on the other side. I feel like then you should just have volleyball specifically just for transgender

00:11:29.600 people because then that would make more sense. Right. It's just, it's just not, I feel like

00:11:34.960 it's not fair. It's just not fair. You know, um, there's too many exceptions. And then when there's

00:11:40.880 too many exceptions, it just gets messy. So it should really be straightforward. You know,

00:11:44.720 this is volleyball transgender people, you know? So you think there should be a third league?

00:11:49.680 There definitely should be one. Okay. What do you think?

00:11:51.680 Yeah, I agree with, um, the lady here. Um, I think there should be a whole separate league 1.00

00:11:58.480 for you guys because, um, thinking of the people that are coming to watch it, right?

00:12:04.000 Their mindsets are like, if it's just women playing, there should be just women playing, 1.00

00:12:09.680 right? And they're coming to support their women that are playing, right? So I just feel like

00:12:14.560 maybe if they had their own league with their own supporters, it kind of works out. But change is

00:12:20.640 going to come at some point where we are going to integrate both all three genders, right?

00:12:25.760 I hope not. Oh, you never know. Oh gosh, I hope not. Times are changing, so.

00:12:31.280 No, no. If I went up against a 6'7 dude, I would never get to play.

00:12:36.640 You know? Because, like, I understand. Because I know a lot of the argument is like, well,

00:12:40.320 I'm tall. Like, I'd be taller than a lot of, you know, people that are trans that transitioned or

00:12:44.080 whatever. But I think the issue that I get into is like, still the top percentage are going to be

00:12:49.920 taller than the top percentage of women. Yeah. Do you know if that four-person team, 1.00

00:12:55.440 they were all taller than you? Or did you meet them? Yeah. Some were taller, some were shorter.

00:13:02.240 Like, one was a libero. But even, you could just tell, like, when they were playing, like,

00:13:09.440 they're just more athletic. Volleyball is a really technical sport, right? So you have to train for,

00:13:14.640 like, I don't know, I would say like five years before you really even get good volley rallies going.

00:13:21.120 But, like, men can kind of just do it off the cuff because they're just so much stronger. It's hard

00:13:25.440 to explain unless you know the sport. I can imagine that there is an advantage with being taller because

00:13:29.520 of the height of the net, right? It's going to be easier to hit it over. Even back row just,

00:13:34.160 it's so weird. Guys can do these just like crazy ups that women just, it takes us so much longer to get 0.98

00:13:40.240 there. Did you find the same disadvantage even with the shorter players? Yes. And it was strength,

00:13:47.040 so they hit harder? I would say they were just a bit quick. You can just tell, I can't really

00:13:53.760 describe what it was. You could just tell the difference. Like, they're a little bit quicker,

00:13:57.600 a little bit more agile. Like, they could just do things that the women couldn't. Okay. 1.00

00:14:06.240 So you guys, you think it depends on the sport, right? So what would you say? Do you think there are

00:14:12.800 certain sports that trans people should be banned from? Would you agree with that? 1.00

00:14:17.040 It's hard because, say for example, you take a, I don't know, you take a trans woman, okay? They, 1.00

00:14:29.280 I don't know, I don't, to be honest, I don't know the process, but like, if you had a trans woman who

00:14:35.120 had been taking puberty blockers from young, um, therefore did not necessarily go through puberty,

00:14:41.440 um, as like, a cis man, um, who then started taking hormone therapy to develop as a female,

00:14:51.040 and therefore has no hormonal, um, advantage, yeah? So I don't know how many hours they put in,

00:15:05.280 I don't know how much they've worked out, I don't know all this, but if they are on the same sort of

00:15:10.880 hormonal level, if that would make a difference, if that would give them an advantage, or if that would

00:15:17.200 be them on a level playing field with someone like you, and I don't know. So I do think that

00:15:25.760 there are certain sports where it is a little bit dangerous, and sometimes it can be, um,

00:15:34.720 irresponsible to put someone in a situation. For example, like you said, boxing, or like a combat sport,

00:15:41.760 if someone, like for example, if they got to a certain age, um, where they've been through puberty,

00:15:48.080 they've been in the gym, you know, they, they, they trained as a boxer, as like a cis man,

00:15:53.840 for years and years, and then decided to transition and enter into women's league,

00:15:57.360 I think that might be slightly irresponsible. Like, the, the level of strength and power that that person

00:16:02.960 has over a cis female might be insane, but then like I said before, I know some insanely strong cis females. 1.00

00:16:10.080 So, again, I can't give you a definitive answer. I can't say whether or not I think it's

00:16:15.520 good or bad. I do think that sports has an insanely positive, um, uh, like repercussion on, on, on,

00:16:27.280 on the person who takes part in it. Like you as a sports person, that's your, I can imagine that's

00:16:31.360 your move in meditation. When I play ice hockey, that's my move in meditation. Nothing outside the

00:16:36.240 ice rink matters. It's like everything that's going crazy in my head just goes into its beautiful

00:16:41.200 filing cabinet and it, it, everything just makes sense for a while. And so to, to take that away

00:16:49.920 from someone who is merely trying to live the life that they feel is right for them,

00:16:54.320 who is not hurting anyone, who's not going out of their way to, to cause malice or anything like that,

00:16:59.120 I think that's harsh, but, but I think it does hurt people because it hurts. Like,

00:17:04.240 it's kind of like if I train for 16 years, just to have opportunity taken and given to someone that

00:17:09.120 I would say has an advantage. Like, I don't think there's any amount of drugs that you can make it

00:17:12.720 equal. Cause I think, I think at the end of the day, like you still are what you're born.

00:17:17.680 A hundred percent. And it's, it's, it's, it, it is always going to be a hard situation. And I do

00:17:24.560 think it's always going to be something that should be seen case by case because it also,

00:17:29.120 you know, there's so many things that, that go into it. It's the person's mentality, you know,

00:17:34.000 like, you know, if you go into something like boxing, are you just trying to score points?

00:17:37.600 Are you trying to be malicious and hurt your person?

00:17:39.280 Time boxes usually get to like pick who they're fighting. I think, I think the issue was there

00:17:45.360 was a case a couple of years ago where they didn't, it was, um, someone didn't disclose. I could be

00:17:49.760 wrong, but I think they didn't disclose they were trans. I don't know. And then someone got hurt.

00:17:55.920 I'm pretty sure. The only one I know that she was trans, but I don't know. What I know is that,

00:18:02.320 yeah, I just think you sign up for it. Yeah. Cause there are girls out there who crazy enough to be like, 1.00

00:18:07.840 hell yeah. They like the competition. I mean, I will say there is one benefit to, 0.99

00:18:13.760 I won't say training with men cause it's training with trans women, but, but let's just say both.

00:18:18.080 If they have an advantage is it does push you to be better because you know, you've got that

00:18:24.080 competition to compete with, but with team sports, it's really, um, complicated because it's not just

00:18:30.640 one person versus one person. It's not just, you know, like, I don't know, swimming where it's,

00:18:34.800 everyone's running in a line or what's swimming in a line. It's a little more complicated when

00:18:39.680 it's team sports. What did you guys think of late Leah Thomas? Did you guys agree with that?

00:18:45.440 I think that the way that they dealt with Leah Thomas was really bad because

00:18:49.200 so that she won fifth place, right? Joint with another girl. And then they said,

00:18:55.280 we're going to give the trophy to the Leah Thomas. And I'm like,

00:18:59.200 do you think Leah Thomas should have been allowed to swim though? 0.79

00:19:02.480 Um, under the rules that they put in, she didn't do anything wrong.

00:19:08.080 I'm asking your personal.

00:19:11.360 So, I mean, she was quite significantly bigger than the rest of them. Right. 0.78

00:19:17.120 And lung capacity is actually really important with swimming. Um, I don't know height as much,

00:19:22.640 but sometimes it's, I mean, I need a yes or a no. She only came fifth, right, though?

00:19:31.200 No, they, she won a different one. Yeah, there was more than one event.

00:19:34.720 I only heard more about the person because the other person didn't even get to hold the trophy

00:19:38.640 because they said Leah Thomas is going to get it. And I'm like, that's really poor organizing.

00:19:42.720 Cause my, my issue is with it is again, it's like we, we train, especially in women's sports, 1.00

00:19:47.120 we train so long and there's no money in it. There's like no money at the end of it. So it's like

00:19:52.560 you train your whole life for a couple opportunities that you get. And so she trained like, and especially

00:19:58.480 just like as an athlete, I know how long we like look forward to our senior year of college.

00:20:03.040 Like that's like, you've trained your whole life. This is the best you're going to be. You're probably

00:20:06.240 not going to play after this. She gets to that moment and it it's taken from her, if I'm being honest,

00:20:12.000 because I just don't think it's fair. I mean, I can hypothesize now how I would fix these situations.

00:20:16.800 So at least temporarily for the meantime, with something like swimming, it's really easy, right?

00:20:21.120 So you simply just have additional trophies and then you give them one for whatever number

00:20:26.720 that they represent, but the cis women aren't losing out. So if there are, say it's a qualifier,

00:20:31.680 there are 20 places, but one of them goes to a trans woman, just let the 21st place go in as well.

00:20:37.360 No, I just, I just don't think we should be forced to compete with them. Like even,

00:20:40.960 even if it's an individual sport. Well, that way no one's really losing out,

00:20:44.080 right? If we have additional trophies, we can say cis women first, second, third,

00:20:47.840 if Leah Thomas comes third, she can be third.

00:20:50.080 We have to make all these exceptions. Like I just, I just think it gets confusing and I just think we

00:20:54.800 should stick it to biological men, biological women. 1.00

00:20:57.280 Can I make a point? Like, is it really a competition if everyone's a winner?

00:21:01.840 Hmm. I mean, that's not everyone's a winner. They would only place if they match the time or come

00:21:08.160 in between at the time of a cis woman. So it wouldn't be like, it's better than what is now, 0.78

00:21:12.880 right? It would be better than what's now because otherwise the trans woman would simply just take 1.00

00:21:17.600 the place that won't be an additional place for a cis woman. But let me ask a question.

00:21:22.160 I'm looking at compromises rather than saying, yeah, I'm just trying my best.

00:21:26.480 Go ahead. So what about for, I'm just, I'm just interested in if the same worry and concern

00:21:32.240 would apply for transgender people who have gone from female to male, because then it would be 1.00

00:21:38.480 surely on the, on the basis of your philosophy, it would be a disadvantage for the trans man

00:21:46.160 up against cis men, you know? And I think that, I just think it should be fair because you know, 0.90

00:21:51.200 like if a trans man was to go against a cis man, I'm bearing in mind the trans man has

00:21:56.240 again transitioned late in his life and has gone through female puberty. Yeah.

00:22:02.800 I don't know if they're going to be at the same level as a cis man, but does it mean that they

00:22:07.760 can't participate? Do you know what I mean? I know what they can compete in.

00:22:10.800 No, I think it should be biological men, biological women. I think that's how we should,

00:22:15.200 we should slip, flip it. But I don't think, and you can't take drugs obviously to be in the

00:22:21.040 women's league. I think it just has to be on biology. 0.99

00:22:23.840 I mean, they can participate, but they will lose.

00:22:28.160 Okay. It depends on the sport, right? Okay. So I can speak about gymnastics.

00:22:32.640 I don't, I don't think it depends at all. I think two leagues, biological men, biological men.

00:22:36.640 It's pretty black and white. This should be a great area.

00:22:39.280 Yeah, for me.

00:22:40.000 All right. Let me speak. So with gymnastics, you have an advantage if you're shorter,

00:22:44.560 you can do more rotations. Obviously more women tend to be shorter than men. 1.00

00:22:48.400 All right, no way. You also have an advantage. I've seen the flips. I've seen the flips.

00:22:52.000 Yeah, Simone Biles is four foot ten. I know. No, she, she's very good. But I'm saying the men,

00:22:57.600 like, they go higher when they, when they jump off the...

00:23:00.880 No. So like with gymnastics, it's not just being shorter that's beneficial,

00:23:05.120 but it depends on the discipline. I will say there are some disciplines within gymnastics

00:23:08.800 a trans man would not have fun with. Like rings, for example, is all about upper body strength. 1.00

00:23:13.440 Ew, that's going to suck. But when it comes to like floor exercise, um, um, and also I,

00:23:20.400 I see it the other way around as well. A trans woman would not have an advantage 1.00

00:23:23.680 because she's going to be taller. For example, when you're doing beam, having smaller feet 0.60

00:23:28.160 is an advantage and being shorter, men struggle on the beam. That's why they don't do it as a thing.

00:23:34.640 Like men and women's gymnastics is pretty different. There's only like a couple of shared

00:23:39.520 disciplines within the two, um, which is vault and floor. Um, the bars are very different for both

00:23:45.600 because they're adapted. So like flexibility is the biggest one in gymnastics and women are more 1.00

00:23:51.280 flexible than men. So if being shorter is a benefit and being more flexible is a benefit,

00:23:56.560 then it makes sense that trans men would be able to compete in gymnastics.

00:23:59.360 Maybe, maybe there's specific things in gymnastics, but I still think biological men,

00:24:04.480 biological women to avoid all this confusion. Because by that logic, 1.00

00:24:08.480 then the women would go into the men's league and then they would be at an advantage. 1.00

00:24:12.960 My gut is telling me, my gut's telling me the guys would still win, but, but you know,

00:24:18.240 I could be, I don't know, gymnastics like that. They are quite different.

00:24:22.000 In gymnastics, would you say that the spots where both men and women have like the same

00:24:27.520 like disciplines, would you say the women are more athletic or better gymnasts than the guys? 1.00

00:24:32.240 I think women are better at floor. There's a reason why female gymnastics has the highest viewership 1.00

00:24:36.400 in the Olympics. I don't think, I don't think it's because of the, I don't, I think. You don't think

00:24:42.080 Simone Biles is good? No, I think it's, so you think Simone Biles is more, is more, is a better

00:24:48.720 gymnast than the best male gymnast? So because gymnastics is about flexibility rather than just

00:24:54.880 pure strength, except for rings, potentially, um, pommel horse to an extent. Yeah. No, no, gymnastics is not

00:25:02.800 about flexibility. Flexibility is something you need to do gymnastics. Gymnastics is about pulling

00:25:07.280 off, um, skillful maneuvers. Yes. So like flexibility and this, so if you're short, which women tend to 1.00

00:25:15.280 be shorter than men on average, you're able to do more rotations on floor exercises than you are as a

00:25:21.120 men. But you just listed, like, you just listed a couple with the rings, you said rings. Yeah, rings,

00:25:28.320 trans men would probably. Yeah, but, but the whole, the whole point, it doesn't even really matter 1.00

00:25:32.160 because if you're saying women have the advantage, then, then it would just be vice versa. So I'm

00:25:36.800 saying to avoid the confusion, it should just be biological men, biological women. I understand that

00:25:41.280 it's like, it feels good to simplify things that way. And it's not necessarily a wrong opinion to have.

00:25:46.960 Um, I, I will say like, although trans women are a protected class and you know, I'm pro trans,

00:25:54.800 I'm not, I'm not anti-trans in any way at all. So are women, women are a protected class. Um,

00:26:01.040 and that becomes an issue when it seems like both sides are complaining about their hurt feelings.

00:26:07.120 So for me, I want to, wait, what do you mean, what do you mean hurt feelings? Well,

00:26:11.760 because I would say from the athlete's side, we're not complaining about our hurt feelings. We don't

00:26:15.520 want to get hurt. So the two main complaints are both sides saying I'm uncomfortable for one reason

00:26:21.120 or another. And I'm like, I don't care if you're uncomfortable for either side. It's,

00:26:24.400 is irrelevant to how we're going to fix the issue. Um, and the other issue is like acceptance that is

00:26:31.920 being forced to a point where I think that to be fair, I think trans women have been told a lie,

00:26:38.800 which is simply that reducing your testosterone just fixes everything magically. And I think they

00:26:43.280 believe it, um, because they've been told it and who wouldn't really believe things that they've been

00:26:48.080 told. And if certain governing bodies, every governing body in sports is different, right?

00:26:53.600 So not every governing body allows X, Y, or Z is variable. Um, but I do think that it's the governing

00:27:01.760 bodies and the sports themselves that kind of let this situation get to the point of where it is.

00:27:07.360 Like, I don't have any ill will towards the trans people in this discussion. It's not

00:27:12.880 really their fault. It's like, yeah, but it's not about ill, but we're just talking about policies.

00:27:17.760 So it's not about what should you do? It's like, what would the policies be? Should they be allowed?

00:27:23.040 And if, well, I'm a proponent of the same as him, I'm like, it's variable.

00:27:28.480 I understand. So it depends on the sport. Okay. Um, what's the next one? Cause you said something about

00:27:38.960 what about locker rooms bathrooms?

00:27:40.880 They need their own unit. They need their own space.

00:27:44.160 Why? Why?

00:27:45.360 Because I've, from just watching, like I've watched, um, basically, you know, the,

00:27:53.680 there was an episode on Glee when the student unique went into the female's bathroom. Right. 0.97

00:28:01.040 And then as he came out, well, as he came out of the, the, the stall, um, one of the cheerleaders

00:28:07.440 stopped him and was like, you can't use this bathroom. You're not allowed. You're a man.

00:28:11.920 And from that, it triggered a whole situation within the school where people, where boys were walking

00:28:20.160 into girls locker rooms and girls are walking into male locker rooms. And it just made the whole

00:28:25.120 thing a confusing space for people. Not until the end of the, the show I watched. Right. And where they

00:28:32.640 gave them his own key to his own cubicle and it just, everything went back to normal. So I just feel

00:28:39.520 as if they need their own space, if that makes sense, their own unit, their own bathroom.

00:28:44.320 So they don't feel like they have to be pressured to go into the boy's bathroom or to the girl's

00:28:49.280 bathroom, depending on what. Yeah. I mean, I don't like to get naked in front of anyone. So I've never

00:28:53.040 have to, because luckily I guess with my schools and with whatever gyms and swimming pools I've been

00:28:58.320 to, they've always had like private cubicles, but I feel like shared ones is more common in the US.

00:29:03.360 I think. Well, in an athletic space, even at the tournament this weekend, they were in there.

00:29:06.880 Okay. I feel like that's uncomfortable for everyone, right? It's just like.

00:29:12.000 No, no, you're pretty, you're, you, you get, as an athlete, you get pretty comfortable changing

00:29:16.000 in front of women. I hate it. But that's just women. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not 1.00

00:29:19.920 trans women. If it was trans women, I'd feel like, okay. Okay. You was once a man. Okay. I will start 1.00

00:29:27.280 to think a little bit like, are you watching me sort of thing? I'm just a prover. I just hate everyone.

00:29:33.040 It's uncomfortable for both. Like it's uncomfortable for trans women and the women,

00:29:38.480 because I can like me putting myself in a trans women's shoes, which I can, I can try. I mean,

00:29:44.640 I can't exactly relate, but I would feel very, just, I would have so many, like a million doubts

00:29:52.240 and thoughts running in my head. Like, I think having a changing room just dedicated to trans

00:29:57.040 people would be so much better for them and for everyone else. I think we should just

00:30:02.880 private cubicles for all. Yeah. I don't want to see anyone. No, no, no, because even at the bathroom,

00:30:08.480 like, I don't, I just want, like, I just think even when you're doing your makeup and you're just

00:30:12.400 doing like girls stuff, I don't know. It's just nice to just have girls in there. It's so, it's so,

00:30:17.360 if I can just, it's sounding like a little bit, um, what's the right word? Like prejudice,

00:30:23.040 because, you know, if someone's transitioned, then they've, they should be able to go into the,

00:30:30.640 um, restroom of that gender that they've transitioned to. I think it's a bit crazy 1.00

00:30:36.480 because let's just say, for example, you have a trans woman or a trans man that now goes into the

00:30:42.960 restroom of the gender that they was born, but they've already started surgeries. They've already

00:30:47.920 started testosterone. They're going to be majorly misplaced. And anyone that's in that restaurant

00:30:53.920 with them is going to feel super uncomfortable. I mean, if they've completed their transition

00:30:59.360 or even halfway through with their transition, then, and no, no one would know the difference,

00:31:04.560 especially if, for example. No, you can, you can tell. Not all the time. Maybe with men to female,

00:31:11.520 sometimes because of, for example, like height, hand size, feet size, but not every single man

00:31:18.320 is like six foot. Some men are small. I will say like butch lesbians kind of get the worst of this 1.00

00:31:23.760 because there's a lot more like masculine lesbians than there are like trans women that I've ever met 0.99

00:31:28.320 in the wild. Cause I have trans friends, but I, I don't think I've ever met one just like in public.

00:31:33.120 Even when we go to like locker rooms, like if you, if you in public, you, you get naked,

00:31:38.160 that's indecent exposure. And so, but it's like, especially a lot of the trans, um, women, 1.00

00:31:44.720 like they don't end up getting the surgeries or trans. Yeah. They don't end up getting the surgery.

00:31:49.600 So it's like, I don't want to, cause they always use Blair White as an example. Like that's always

00:31:54.880 the one they'll like destiny always throw at us, but it's like, he didn't get the surgery.

00:31:59.600 I'm not too sure who that is, but like, you know, like we, we say that obviously gender

00:32:03.840 and sexuality are two different things. No, I don't think so.

00:32:07.120 But they are though, because you have, you have lesbian women and gay men,

00:32:12.000 and they would never dream of transitioning. They're happy as men.

00:32:16.160 Oh, sexuality. Sorry.

00:32:17.520 And they're happy to be gay men. And you know, there's women that are happy to be gay women. 0.96

00:32:21.520 They've got no intentions of transitioning. But if someone has transitioned, because equally people

00:32:27.360 transition and are still attracted sexually to the other sex, if I'm making sense. So for example, 0.97

00:32:36.880 you could be born female, transitioning to a man, and then be attracted to men. 0.64

00:32:42.640 So then you'd be a gay trans man. 0.93

00:32:44.320 Yeah. 0.95

00:32:45.360 So what I'm saying is-

00:32:46.320 I don't really, I don't even really care about the sexuality, it's just the biology.

00:32:50.240 I hear you. But to make my point, if you're a transgender person who has transitioned and isn't

00:32:56.320 gay in that transition, I don't see how you can possibly make anyone in a restroom feel uncomfortable.

00:33:02.640 So if you're a trans man, and you like women, you go into a men's locker room, as a man, 0.89

00:33:08.800 who likes women. You're not posing any threat to any of those men in that locker room. You're not perving

00:33:13.840 on anyone. And equally the same, if you're a man born, a man who then transitions into a woman, 0.56

00:33:22.400 and finds men sexually attractive.

00:33:24.400 You're not going to go into the locker room and start perving on the women in that. 1.00

00:33:26.960 Would you agree that the transition's mental?

00:33:30.800 I think it has to start off mental, 100%. It has to start off as a mental thing.

00:33:34.240 But you would agree you can't actually be the other gender?

00:33:36.960 No, you can get surgeries to make you look like it. But you wouldn't actually like...

00:33:41.600 No, yes, you can be. You can't change your DNA. You can't change your sex. 0.52

00:33:46.000 You can't change your DNA. No, you can't change your DNA.

00:33:48.720 You can't like actually change your gender. 0.91

00:33:50.960 No. Well, you can change your body. You can change your shell.

00:33:54.080 I mean, I'm a spiritual individual. The way it looks, right?

00:33:56.480 Yeah, I mean, I'm a spiritual person. So for me, this body right here is just my shell.

00:34:01.120 Now, if an accident happened to me, God forbid, and I was paralyzed,

00:34:05.840 that doesn't make me less of anything because I can't use my body.

00:34:08.800 Our body is just our body. Who we are inside...

00:34:11.360 Right. So it's mental though. It's not physical.

00:34:13.840 It's mental and emotional. And then it can...

00:34:16.000 And then if it's strong enough, you will change the physical to match the mental and emotional.

00:34:20.240 No, but you can't, like you can't, you know, like a man, 0.97

00:34:23.680 like a trans man can't get a woman pregnant and vice versa. 0.90

00:34:26.400 No, you can't because that's DNA like you said.

00:34:28.480 But that's the point. You can't.

00:34:29.600 How many cis men are there that can't get a woman pregnant?

00:34:31.520 How many cis women are there that can't get... 1.00

00:34:33.120 Exactly, exactly.

00:34:34.320 I just wouldn't say that. I would say it's a false equivalency.

00:34:37.040 No, because it sounds prejudiced from your point though.

00:34:39.120 It sounds prejudiced from your point.

00:34:40.160 They're still built the way they're built, right?

00:34:42.880 Like they still were born with those parts.

00:34:45.200 Yeah, but a woman who can't get pregnant naturally, 1.00

00:34:47.760 like a cis woman who can't get pregnant isn't less of a woman because she can't get pregnant. 0.96

00:34:51.280 Exactly.

00:34:51.760 The same way a man is not less of a man because he can't impregnate a woman.

00:34:54.880 Exactly.

00:34:55.280 Right, but they're still a woman because they're born a woman. 1.00

00:34:58.000 Yes, yes.

00:34:58.720 Right.

00:34:59.280 And so my point is it's mental, it's not physical.

00:35:02.320 It starts off mental and it can end physical.

00:35:05.040 I've seen pictures of like, on Twitter, I did not want to, it was just, you've been on Twitter.

00:35:10.000 And like, of like the surgeries, it doesn't look the same.

00:35:12.880 Well, the thing is, yeah.

00:35:15.040 It doesn't.

00:35:15.760 The thing is, yeah, like it's not going to be able to look the same.

00:35:19.040 Do you understand?

00:35:20.000 Like, that's, it's just how it goes.

00:35:22.080 You know, if a white person was to want to get a skin, a tan, they're not going to look black. 0.89

00:35:26.800 Do you know what I mean? 0.69

00:35:27.680 Like there's certain things if a black person wants to get lighter and they start bleaching, you can tell. 1.00

00:35:32.400 They're getting better with it too.

00:35:34.400 You just have to let people be who they are.

00:35:36.240 Like all of this judgment and yeah, but you don't look, you don't let people live their truth and feel comfortable in the body that they're in.

00:35:42.560 I don't care if you live your truth, like, but like, and do, like, do what you want to your body.

00:35:46.800 But to me, it's just like, I think that women have the right to our own spaces. 1.00

00:35:51.360 Like I think we have the right, I think, I think we, no, I don't think the race thing really is an equivalent, but I think like women have the right to our own spaces. 0.88

00:36:00.560 I agree, I agree, I agree with, I fully agree with what you're saying and I understand, you know, the difficulties with women who are playing sports with trans men. 0.84

00:36:10.160 But I think that the difficulties that you, women, cis women have.

00:36:13.680 Well, even in bathrooms too, I would say the same thing.

00:36:15.920 Because at the, at the end of the day, you know, they, they still need their.

00:36:18.800 I'll be honest, I've gone into men's bathrooms quite a lot because they have short queues.

00:36:22.960 So I don't, I don't know.

00:36:24.080 That's like, that's like a female privilege, isn't it? 1.00

00:36:26.160 Kind of, yes.

00:36:27.200 Because I could not be the other way around.

00:36:28.240 I think society has really started to over sexualize people.

00:36:34.400 Like, I don't know about you, but when I go to the toilet, like I literally go in there to go to the toilet.

00:36:38.480 That's it.

00:36:38.960 I go in the toilet, I come out, I wash my hands and I walk out trying as hard as I can not to touch the door.

00:36:43.520 I will say, unless the trans woman is doing something legitimately weird, like staring or they have like a hard on or something bad, 0.98

00:36:50.720 they probably are just changing and it's just awkward for everyone involved.

00:36:54.640 But I don't know, like, I just, I'm awkward around everyone.

00:36:57.760 I wanted to add something to the conversation.

00:36:59.920 So I have a daughter.

00:37:01.280 I think you guys are focusing too much on the people that are adults.

00:37:07.280 No, not even that.

00:37:08.160 I think you guys are focusing too much on the people that, like the people that are going through this and their feelings.

00:37:12.960 What you're failing to realize is that we're talking about the policies.

00:37:15.600 So the policies make it possible for a man to transition into the woman and go into a female robot's bathroom. 0.97

00:37:22.720 So if the policies make that possible, you're forgetting that we have people that are criminals.

00:37:27.040 We have people that are off there, that are crazy, that will take advantage of those kind of policies.

00:37:32.720 There's actually nothing to stop this.

00:37:34.320 Literally.

00:37:34.960 No, I started first.

00:37:36.880 My point is, my point is, if those policies exist, people that can take advantage of those policies will take advantage of it.

00:37:46.320 There's actually nothing to stop anyone from going into any bathroom.

00:37:48.760 You know what I'm saying in time?

00:37:49.760 Yes, but, but, yes.

00:37:50.960 We don't, like, stand outside of the bathrooms as security guards.

00:37:53.040 Yes, there's nothing to stop anyone.

00:37:53.840 There's nothing to stop anyone.

00:37:55.040 But the mere fact that you're, you're, you're, you're basically disregarding social... 0.97

00:37:59.520 Can gay men not allow, are gay men not allowed to use men's bathroom in case the men that are not gay are worried that the gay men entering are going to have perv on them? 0.97

00:38:07.200 Are lesbians not allowed to use women's bathroom because they're scared? 1.00

00:38:10.640 No, I don't think, I think that's a false equivalent.

00:38:11.760 Okay, so what's the problem?

00:38:12.800 The reason why I say this is because when you argue from the men's side, men don't care because the reality of a man's world is we have to defend ourselves in whatever situation anyways.

00:38:21.600 Right.

00:38:21.840 So the protection is actually for the women. 0.53

00:38:24.160 I don't care if a woman comes into my bathroom because I know she can't do, like, there's very little she can do to me. 1.00

00:38:29.120 Right.

00:38:29.520 So it's actually...

00:38:30.480 Unless she's got a weapon.

00:38:31.600 Exactly.

00:38:32.080 Right.

00:38:32.480 But it's actually more for the women. 0.98

00:38:34.400 So my point is, if I have a daughter, I don't want a situation where policies allow someone to be able to go into the bathroom to perv on her.

00:38:44.480 But can I ask a question?

00:38:46.000 Wouldn't it be, this is what I was saying before about sexuality, if a trans woman, okay, has gone into a woman's bathroom and she is heterosexual now and she loves men. 0.85

00:38:57.120 Yeah. 0.97

00:38:58.080 Is that not less pervy than a gay woman going into the women? 1.00

00:39:02.480 I agree. 0.98

00:39:02.960 But the problem is, would the women start putting labels on their head about who they are? 1.00

00:39:07.520 They don't.

00:39:08.080 You just have to just, just do your thing.

00:39:09.520 That's the point.

00:39:10.080 Just do your thing.

00:39:11.120 Yeah.

00:39:11.520 And if someone, if you feel like someone's staring at you...

00:39:13.520 But his point is, we won't know, but we can see with gender.

00:39:17.520 You can't know sexuality.

00:39:19.280 You don't know if the person...

00:39:19.680 No, but we're not talking about sexuality.

00:39:21.600 We're talking about gender.

00:39:22.480 But also, regardless, if a predator wants to predate, a predator will predate.

00:39:26.640 It's that simple.

00:39:27.360 Like, if someone has that in their mind and that's what they want to do, they will.

00:39:30.480 And they will have done that for years and years and years and years.

00:39:32.880 But you're making it easier.

00:39:34.080 It's changing policy.

00:39:35.200 Not necessarily.

00:39:35.840 And it's like, it just makes me uncomfortable.

00:39:38.080 Like, I don't want to change.

00:39:39.200 I don't want to go to the bathroom in front of guys.

00:39:42.560 And you can, you know, you can dress like a woman, act like a woman.

00:39:45.680 It doesn't make you a woman. 1.00

00:39:47.520 Well, it does though.

00:39:48.480 That's the thing. 1.00

00:39:49.040 If they don't have a penis anymore, do you know what I mean? 1.00

00:39:53.840 But they don't have ovaries. 1.00

00:39:54.960 And even when you were talking earlier about women that can't... 0.99

00:39:56.880 Some women don't have ovaries. 1.00

00:39:57.760 Sorry to cut you.

00:39:58.720 I mean, it's a very, very small percentage.

00:40:01.840 And they were still, like, they're supposed to have ovaries. 1.00

00:40:04.800 It's very different than chopping your off.

00:40:08.320 And I hear you, like, the thing is, I hear your concern.

00:40:11.680 And I'm sure a lot of people have the same concerns as you.

00:40:15.120 But what I'm trying to get you to understand is somehow, in some way,

00:40:18.960 as much as you have your opinion, it is a little bit prejudiced, you know?

00:40:23.920 And I get that your prejudice may come from your personal concerns,

00:40:27.680 but it is still a prejudice.

00:40:29.280 And I think that, you know, you have to understand that when you've got these viewpoints,

00:40:33.200 yeah, sometimes it's hypocritical because, and that's why I'm using sexuality.

00:40:37.600 That's why I'm saying there's probably women in your bathroom that are checking you out 1.00

00:40:41.680 if they're gay, if they're lesbians. So for you to... 0.94

00:40:44.400 Lesbians can be pretty aggressive. 1.00

00:40:45.680 And yeah, they can, so for you to dismiss them and then jump on trans women, 1.00

00:40:50.960 who probably aren't interested in you.

00:40:52.560 But there's no policy that we can push.

00:40:55.040 That, like, you can't do that because, again, he was saying there's no sign on their head

00:40:58.480 saying that they're gay.

00:40:59.360 And they don't have to. They don't have to.

00:41:00.880 And I'm not saying that...

00:41:01.680 There's no sign on their head saying they're trans.

00:41:03.520 Yeah, but it is so obvious.

00:41:04.960 It is not.

00:41:05.600 Oh my gosh, it is so obvious.

00:41:07.440 I'm sorry.

00:41:08.000 Especially, especially men that, men that, men that become women, it's so obvious.

00:41:12.080 You can tell.

00:41:12.800 Not always.

00:41:13.360 You can't.

00:41:14.320 Not always.

00:41:15.200 No, but when you say not always, that's like a very small percentage.

00:41:17.760 I think the vast majority you can tell from...

00:41:19.840 Yeah, because of the access to care.

00:41:21.200 No, it's so...

00:41:21.840 And the access to surgery, the access to...

00:41:23.120 How many people, like trans people have you guys... 1.00

00:41:25.040 No, but not everyone has access to surgery. It's so expensive.

00:41:27.520 I don't think many.

00:41:27.840 Exactly.

00:41:28.720 It's so expensive.

00:41:29.440 So to make somebody acceptably trans for society, they have to go through all these surgeries?

00:41:35.520 Is that what you're saying?

00:41:36.160 It's not.

00:41:36.560 Mm-mm.

00:41:37.280 It's crazy.

00:41:37.600 I'm not saying...

00:41:38.560 I'm saying by identifying.

00:41:39.920 I'm not talking about accepting someone.

00:41:41.280 No, I mean, I just don't think...

00:41:42.800 No, but if they're stealth, then they can go into the toilet, right? 0.86

00:41:45.280 So if you don't realize that they're a trans woman, they can go in there, right? 1.00

00:41:48.480 I just don't think it's like...

00:41:49.760 Because you're not on edge because they don't have an Adam's apple.

00:41:52.560 No, I just think it's...

00:41:54.240 Like, why do I have to agree to the delusion?

00:41:57.360 Like, it doesn't make you the opposite gender because you dress like it and get some surgery. 0.99

00:42:01.440 It's not a delusion.

00:42:02.080 Some people aren't necessarily even trying to access that.

00:42:04.240 They're not even trying to be cisgender.

00:42:06.640 Some people are not trying to be like their cis counterparts.

00:42:11.760 Some people are just trying to make the outside match the inside.

00:42:14.480 And that doesn't necessarily mean that they will claim that they are cisgender.

00:42:19.040 It doesn't mean that they want to necessarily be cisgender.

00:42:22.640 It just means that they actually feel mad uncomfortable with a beard.

00:42:25.920 They feel mad uncomfortable with the fact that they've got, you know, leg hair.

00:42:29.920 They're uncomfortable with their genitalia and they don't like it, then it doesn't match them. 0.98

00:42:33.920 But then if they decide to alter the outside or to start, you know, changing how they look

00:42:41.200 and making themselves feel pretty the way that they feel that they should,

00:42:44.560 then they can't go into a man's toilet safely.

00:42:46.800 I kind of want to steal man pearl a little bit because I want to say the majority of trans women 0.98

00:42:52.560 don't think they're cis women. 0.99

00:42:53.600 But there are some people that are delusional and do push it to a point.

00:42:56.800 So it's like we can't just...

00:42:58.080 But I'm saying it's like...

00:42:59.280 Trans women are women but they're not cis women, right?

00:43:03.120 But I'm saying when you're forcing us to accept them as women and treat them as women, 0.87

00:43:08.240 then it's like you're forcing me to live in the delusion when I can see you're clearly not.

00:43:12.400 So like when I'm forced to play with them, now I have to, you know,

00:43:15.600 and I didn't even get a choice in this.

00:43:16.880 Like now I have to succumb to their delusion.

00:43:19.360 I'm guessing in sports it's more obvious.

00:43:21.360 Even in the locker room, because I go into the locker room, now I have to,

00:43:25.600 now I have to pretend that they're supposed to be there.

00:43:28.080 Now I have to go to the bathrooms and pretend. 0.99

00:43:29.920 But people have been pretending like trans people don't exist.

00:43:32.400 I didn't say they don't, they clearly exist.

00:43:34.960 But trans people have been a part of society for like, well, since time began.

00:43:39.760 But the issue we get to is that if we don't, if we don't give a hard line,

00:43:44.800 then later there will be consequences. 0.98

00:43:46.560 And that's what you see with the men going into female prisons and they get raped. 1.00

00:43:52.160 There was a couple of cases in California that just happened in.

00:43:55.120 We already, so in England, we've already prepped for that.

00:43:58.240 So we have a transgender wing too, but we have the same problem. 1.00

00:44:01.120 We did have a transgender woman rape a woman because that was really stupid. 1.00

00:44:06.000 Because she wasn't like, she wasn't post-op or anything as really dumb. 1.00

00:44:10.640 I feel like there are some situations where people just turn their brains off. 0.92

00:44:14.400 But my problem is like, that's why I just think we make it simple.

00:44:17.520 Biological men, biological women. 1.00

00:44:19.360 And I think that's a good idea.

00:44:20.640 When you start getting into all these, when you get into all these exceptions,

00:44:24.160 like then there are people that are faced consequences.

00:44:26.880 And usually it's not you, it's someone else.

00:44:28.720 Yeah, I do think the transgender wing was important because it's obviously,

00:44:31.920 it's keeping trans women safe from men, but it's also keeping, you know, 0.73

00:44:36.960 cis women safe.

00:44:37.920 So I think that was a good, but that is an example of a compromise, right?

00:44:42.000 We didn't just throw the trans women in with the men. 0.99

00:44:44.400 No, but I would, I would, I would just keep it men, women. 1.00

00:44:50.080 There would be no trans women. 1.00

00:44:51.360 You're a black and white thinker. 0.99

00:44:52.880 This makes your brain smooth.

00:44:54.880 I like black and white thinking too.

00:44:56.560 So I understand.

00:44:58.000 Can I just say something?

00:44:59.440 It's not about thinking black and white.

00:45:00.960 It's just, you know how some people, well,

00:45:03.520 I was raised to think that if I'm a woman,

00:45:05.920 I go into the woman's bathroom. 1.00

00:45:07.840 I have brothers.

00:45:08.720 When they go toilet, they go to the men's bathroom. 0.94

00:45:10.800 But at home, we use the same toilet, right?

00:45:12.640 At home, we use the same toilet because we are family and because we are friends.

00:45:18.160 Because we are family and because we are friends.

00:45:19.600 What was the last thing you said?

00:45:20.480 When you go to a house party,

00:45:21.280 when you're meeting people that you don't know,

00:45:22.480 but you're still using the same toilet, right?

00:45:23.840 Yes.

00:45:24.080 A hundred percent.

00:45:24.720 You survived.

00:45:25.280 I'm proud of you.

00:45:25.920 Yeah, no, but at a house party,

00:45:30.400 I would go at a house party.

00:45:32.640 I would go with the girls and you talk in the bathroom. 1.00

00:45:35.600 I would not bring a guy to do that.

00:45:37.840 And you know, it's different.

00:45:39.200 Like we go, we go into it.

00:45:41.680 It is an experience.

00:45:42.720 You know that, you know,

00:45:43.600 the I'm enjoying this because I'm not the most,

00:45:46.320 most woke person here.

00:45:47.680 I'm kind of in the middle.

00:45:48.480 It's great.

00:45:49.360 It's great.

00:45:50.000 I enjoy it.

00:45:51.520 But when it comes to bathrooms specifically,

00:45:55.760 I don't want to disregard how anxious and scared women often feel in general.

00:46:01.200 Like if you don't know somewhere where you're going and you're out in public,

00:46:03.680 you're always kind of on edge.

00:46:05.760 And society kind of pushes you to be this way,

00:46:08.160 because if you're not on edge and constantly have your guard up,

00:46:10.800 you're often blamed for things that are bad that happened to you.

00:46:14.320 So you're either constantly anxious or constantly not paying attention and then blamed for the bad

00:46:19.760 things that happened to you.

00:46:21.120 And that's not trans women's fault, 0.96

00:46:23.840 but it's something we should take into consideration.

00:46:26.000 Just the experience of being a cis woman.

00:46:27.840 Again, women, both, both women, 1.00

00:46:30.720 we are protected classes.

00:46:32.080 And whilst we have some similarities,

00:46:33.520 we are also different.

00:46:34.560 We're like two circles that partly overlap,

00:46:36.560 but don't completely overlap.

00:46:37.920 And it's important not to just completely discredit these differences.

00:46:43.520 Um, okay.

00:46:44.560 So where do we land on bathrooms?

00:46:46.400 So you guys bathrooms.

00:46:47.760 I think it should be fine.

00:46:48.720 Fine.

00:46:49.280 I really just want to get out.

00:46:51.520 I want to,

00:46:52.400 who says no?

00:46:53.280 I mean,

00:46:53.600 I just want hands.

00:46:54.400 They have to get their own unit.

00:46:55.840 Okay,

00:46:56.160 half and half.

00:46:56.800 I mean,

00:46:57.200 own units is good.

00:46:58.320 Like,

00:46:58.560 I promote own units for everything.

00:46:59.280 Just keep everything unisex.

00:47:00.320 Put a camera outside the cubicle.

00:47:01.920 I don't want to see nobody.

00:47:02.960 Unisex?

00:47:04.240 It's like a unisex cubicle.

00:47:05.760 You can just have cubicle, cubicle, cubicle, cubicle, camera.

00:47:08.240 It's not that deep.

00:47:09.120 Like, I just don't understand why it's that deep.

00:47:10.320 I don't want to see,

00:47:10.800 you know,

00:47:11.040 old age groupies.

00:47:12.080 They are not like good.

00:47:14.080 I'm sorry.

00:47:14.560 I'm sorry.

00:47:15.040 You can still have your chat in front of the mirror.

00:47:17.520 The mirror will still be there for you.

00:47:19.200 There will just be a camera watching.

00:47:20.320 You have your chat doing your makeup

00:47:21.520 so that everyone's safe when you walk in.

00:47:22.880 How about that?

00:47:23.280 No,

00:47:24.480 because then again,

00:47:25.200 it's like,

00:47:25.440 we have to make all these exceptions

00:47:26.960 for like 1% of the population.

00:47:28.800 Everyone should like it.

00:47:30.800 So if it's only 1% of the population,

00:47:32.640 like I just think that we're,

00:47:34.400 where these people are,

00:47:36.400 you know,

00:47:36.720 we are a,

00:47:38.160 what's the words?

00:47:41.920 When something's like a small amount of,

00:47:43.840 you know what I'm saying?

00:47:44.480 That it's such a small percentage.

00:47:46.320 I just don't see how like,

00:47:48.400 it's going to be an issue,

00:47:50.000 you know,

00:47:50.240 for these,

00:47:50.640 these type of people because

00:47:51.840 It's not an issue till it becomes an issue.

00:47:53.840 There's so,

00:47:54.480 there's such a small percentage.

00:47:55.760 You said just 1%.

00:47:57.200 Like if there was,

00:47:58.720 there's 1% of millionaires.

00:48:00.480 Okay.

00:48:00.800 If there was,

00:48:01.520 yeah,

00:48:01.680 but that's different because,

00:48:02.800 you know,

00:48:03.200 that's,

00:48:03.520 that's not a league.

00:48:04.320 That's not like a league.

00:48:05.200 That's just people's successes and stuff.

00:48:06.640 But if you're trying to put people together

00:48:09.120 in terms of like leagues of sports

00:48:11.440 and things like that,

00:48:12.560 it's going to be difficult with just 1%

00:48:15.040 to form a whole league of just one gender of people.

00:48:18.000 And the more we're speaking about it,

00:48:20.240 the more I'm starting to see that

00:48:22.320 it wouldn't be a bad thing.

00:48:23.760 You know,

00:48:24.080 it genuinely would not be a bad thing to have a separate,

00:48:27.360 but then there would need to be a more,

00:48:32.320 more amounts of people.

00:48:33.120 Like let's say,

00:48:33.520 for example,

00:48:34.000 female football,

00:48:34.720 female football,

00:48:35.920 you know,

00:48:36.240 30 years ago,

00:48:37.360 didn't really exist.

00:48:38.480 I don't know how correct that is,

00:48:40.720 but I'm just kind of giving an estimate.

00:48:42.160 But as time progresses,

00:48:44.400 it's getting more watched,

00:48:45.440 it's getting more appreciated,

00:48:46.640 more people are going towards it.

00:48:48.480 But initially,

00:48:49.360 there wasn't enough women playing football 1.00

00:48:51.760 for there to be a league.

00:48:53.040 And I think with transgender people,

00:48:55.120 the more transgender people that come forward

00:48:57.040 and say,

00:48:57.280 you know what,

00:48:57.600 I'd like to play a sport

00:48:59.760 and face these types of difficulties

00:49:01.840 of prejudice,

00:49:02.720 and whether it's prejudice

00:49:03.920 or just, you know,

00:49:04.560 technical, whatever it is,

00:49:05.840 they can create this league, you know?

00:49:07.680 I think in life,

00:49:08.800 you know,

00:49:09.120 we've kind of said

00:49:09.920 that we shouldn't be excluded from anything.

00:49:12.320 And I think some things,

00:49:13.360 yeah,

00:49:13.600 people should be excluded from.

00:49:15.120 Like for example,

00:49:16.320 I don't really think women, 1.00

00:49:18.240 like we don't play football.

00:49:19.920 I mean,

00:49:20.480 not really,

00:49:21.360 it's not really paid.

00:49:22.320 It's like,

00:49:22.560 it's a very fringe,

00:49:23.600 right?

00:49:23.840 So we can,

00:49:24.720 but we can talk about

00:49:25.680 like in the normal school,

00:49:27.120 the normal college,

00:49:28.160 you're not going to go on

00:49:29.120 and find a football team.

00:49:30.960 Right?

00:49:31.920 And you know,

00:49:32.400 maybe there's special colleges

00:49:33.840 that do that on occasion

00:49:34.880 when there's a high population

00:49:36.080 of women that want to play. 0.98

00:49:37.520 But the rule is,

00:49:38.320 there's no football league.

00:49:39.600 When it comes to sports,

00:49:40.720 I think it's,

00:49:41.440 rather than focusing on...

00:49:41.920 No,

00:49:42.000 but I'm saying

00:49:42.720 the same thing with the bathrooms. 0.89

00:49:44.000 Like,

00:49:44.160 okay,

00:49:44.400 if there's a ton in one area,

00:49:46.000 fine.

00:49:46.720 But like demanding

00:49:48.000 that there's bathrooms

00:49:49.840 in all these locations,

00:49:51.120 when we could just go

00:49:52.000 by biological sex,

00:49:53.280 it's easier.

00:49:54.080 Yeah,

00:49:54.240 but you don't...

00:49:54.720 Okay,

00:49:54.960 so biological sex, 0.68

00:49:56.080 when you see someone

00:49:56.640 walking into the women's toilet 1.00

00:49:57.840 with a beard,

00:49:58.400 yeah,

00:49:58.640 you can't give them

00:49:59.120 a little side eye.

00:50:00.080 Yeah,

00:50:00.320 it's gonna be crazy.

00:50:01.040 If I walk into the women's... 1.00

00:50:02.240 If you walk into the women's toilet 1.00

00:50:03.760 and you see somebody

00:50:04.720 walking behind you,

00:50:05.600 walking with a beard, 1.00

00:50:07.280 and a penis, 1.00

00:50:09.200 you can't give them a side eye. 1.00

00:50:10.320 Because there will be...

00:50:11.040 I mean,

00:50:12.000 if we're gonna be honest,

00:50:13.040 I'd rather neither,

00:50:14.160 I'd rather neither,

00:50:15.600 but you know,

00:50:16.320 but we gotta go to biology.

00:50:18.000 These people exist,

00:50:18.960 and I think biologically,

00:50:20.080 it wouldn't work that way.

00:50:22.320 Unless,

00:50:22.720 unless people continue

00:50:24.240 to use the bathrooms

00:50:26.160 of the gender

00:50:26.880 that they've,

00:50:27.840 that they are claiming,

00:50:28.640 yeah?

00:50:29.440 Or that they were assigned at birth.

00:50:30.800 Or that they were assigned at birth.

00:50:32.400 It's either that,

00:50:33.200 or like you say,

00:50:34.160 you know,

00:50:34.480 they make a special bathroom 0.99

00:50:36.160 for transgender people, 0.96

00:50:38.240 because this idea of

00:50:40.800 a transgender woman

00:50:42.480 with a beard 0.99

00:50:43.200 going into a woman's toilet 1.00

00:50:44.640 or a transgender man 1.00

00:50:46.160 with breasts 1.00

00:50:46.880 going into men's toilet 1.00

00:50:48.000 is just absolutely crazy.

00:50:49.120 I mean,

00:50:49.840 it doesn't make any sense.

00:50:51.040 I think it's crazier

00:50:52.080 than someone with 0.93

00:50:53.760 male parts

00:50:54.560 going into a woman's bathroom. 0.99

00:50:56.800 I think that's way crazier. 0.96

00:50:58.080 I would take someone

00:50:58.720 with a beard over...

00:50:59.440 Well, like females bathrooms 1.00

00:51:00.720 are already separate.

00:51:01.680 I would take a beard 1.00

00:51:03.920 over a dick. 1.00

00:51:05.680 But you don't know 1.00

00:51:06.160 what that beard comes with.

00:51:07.120 Yeah.

00:51:07.920 So if someone was assigned

00:51:08.960 female at birth,

00:51:09.680 they've transitioned to male,

00:51:11.520 and you're saying

00:51:12.080 that they need to go

00:51:12.640 with their biological sex,

00:51:14.000 or their gender assigned at birth.

00:51:18.320 So they could have gone

00:51:19.200 through every single process

00:51:21.520 to have bottom surgery,

00:51:23.280 have top surgery.

00:51:24.080 They've been through

00:51:24.560 hormone therapy.

00:51:25.280 They've been on hormones

00:51:26.080 for like 10 years.

00:51:27.440 They look like a cisgender man, 0.98

00:51:32.080 but they've just followed you 0.85

00:51:32.960 into a women's toilet 1.00

00:51:33.760 because you said 0.64

00:51:34.720 that biological women 1.00

00:51:36.720 should go into the women's toilet. 1.00

00:51:37.920 Aren't women's toilets 1.00

00:51:38.800 already completely

00:51:39.680 separate cubicles?

00:51:40.640 Am I missing something?

00:51:41.920 Like, I've never seen 0.92

00:51:42.720 a transgender person's pee-pee, 1.00

00:51:44.640 like, ever. 0.98

00:51:47.360 But the whole point is...

00:51:48.640 I do think changing rooms

00:51:49.760 is a bit different,

00:51:50.720 but bathrooms is just like... 0.98

00:51:52.080 I mean, yeah, I just...

00:51:53.760 I don't think we should be forced

00:51:55.600 to share a bathroom with men.

00:51:57.120 Like, that's my thing.

00:51:58.160 I'm just trying to figure out

00:51:58.960 how you'd know.

00:51:59.760 Like, unless, like,

00:52:00.640 someone was obviously

00:52:01.520 close to their...

00:52:02.160 It's close to the beginning

00:52:02.800 of their transition.

00:52:03.760 I mean, we already have

00:52:04.640 a lot of unisonics bathrooms.

00:52:05.440 I don't know how you would know.

00:52:08.160 I mean, it's pretty...

00:52:09.840 Unless they was to do it

00:52:10.720 based on home surgery.

00:52:10.960 I mean, I'm not even trying

00:52:11.680 to be rude.

00:52:12.160 It's pretty obvious.

00:52:13.680 Like, you can usually tell.

00:52:15.360 Like, even in this room,

00:52:16.400 it was pretty easy

00:52:17.120 for me to tell.

00:52:18.000 But does it really matter

00:52:18.960 unless they do something

00:52:20.160 really bad?

00:52:21.520 Does it matter, like,

00:52:22.320 if you just see them

00:52:22.960 coming in or out?

00:52:23.680 Like, as long as

00:52:24.320 they're not seeing anything bad?

00:52:25.760 But you're forcing me

00:52:26.800 to pretend that they're

00:52:27.760 something that they're not,

00:52:28.720 and I don't think that's...

00:52:29.120 Well, no, you don't have to.

00:52:29.680 You can still think

00:52:30.320 they're what they are.

00:52:31.040 It's supposed to be

00:52:36.320 the women's locker room,

00:52:37.840 the women's bathroom. 0.98

00:52:39.280 And so, it's like,

00:52:40.400 when we have to be okay

00:52:41.840 with them coming in,

00:52:42.800 again, it's like,

00:52:43.360 you're asking me

00:52:44.400 to accept that there's

00:52:45.840 something that they're not.

00:52:47.040 No, I don't...

00:52:48.080 Do you know what?

00:52:48.800 Because your opinion

00:52:50.080 at that point

00:52:50.720 would have to be relevant

00:52:51.840 to the person using

00:52:52.720 the bathroom.

00:52:53.680 So, like, for example, 0.90

00:52:54.560 if a transgender person 0.75

00:52:55.760 came into the bathroom 0.81

00:52:57.040 and had to put up

00:52:58.240 with your negative

00:52:59.680 prejudiced opinion...

00:53:01.200 My negativity, yes.

00:53:02.240 Then it's up to that person

00:53:03.840 if they give you air time.

00:53:05.120 If they think that

00:53:06.160 you're just some negative Nancy, 0.54

00:53:07.760 they'll just go to the toilet 0.98

00:53:08.880 and leave.

00:53:09.200 I'm actually like a Karen,

00:53:10.640 so I would go to the manager

00:53:12.800 and I would say,

00:53:13.440 hey, there's a man

00:53:14.240 in the bathroom.

00:53:15.280 And they'd probably

00:53:15.920 ask you to leave.

00:53:16.640 So, who?

00:53:18.000 Who would?

00:53:18.720 They'd probably ask you to leave.

00:53:19.760 Well, in this woke culture,

00:53:21.040 yes, but I'm trying to stop that.

00:53:22.160 But do they really look

00:53:23.600 completely like a man

00:53:24.720 or are they a transgender woman

00:53:26.000 and they're trying the best?

00:53:26.960 See, I get really confused

00:53:28.320 all the words,

00:53:29.200 like the trans, cis.

00:53:30.720 It just confuses me a bit.

00:53:32.480 But if we're going to go

00:53:33.680 to the men that become women,

00:53:35.840 I would say it's very easy to tell.

00:53:37.840 Like at that tournament,

00:53:38.880 I could say that one,

00:53:39.760 that one, that one.

00:53:40.720 I would say the other way around,

00:53:42.000 it's a little harder.

00:53:43.360 But it's still pretty easy to tell.

00:53:45.760 Say of all of the trans women 0.86

00:53:47.120 that you've met,

00:53:48.000 would all of them bother you

00:53:49.360 or some bother you more than others?

00:53:51.360 Or just your feelings?

00:53:53.440 All of them bother you

00:53:54.320 about the same amount?

00:53:54.880 All of them,

00:53:55.440 I would not want

00:53:56.480 in the bathroom with me.

00:53:59.200 Yeah.

00:53:59.760 I feel like we should base

00:54:01.760 being sort of wary of people

00:54:04.320 on when they actually do

00:54:06.240 something bad.

00:54:07.600 No, but again,

00:54:08.160 the policies,

00:54:08.880 again,

00:54:10.000 because the issue is

00:54:11.600 if we allow them

00:54:12.880 in the bathrooms,

00:54:13.680 then what's next?

00:54:14.640 Then it's the prisons.

00:54:15.680 Then it's the sports.

00:54:16.800 Like it just never stops.

00:54:18.480 So I mean-

00:54:19.040 There's always something

00:54:19.920 they're going to be fighting for.

JustPearlyThings - July 01, 2023

Heated Debate On TRANS People In SPORTS

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