JustPearlyThings - June 22, 2023


Most Divorced Men Go Through This


Episode Stats


Length

10 minutes

Words per minute

150.47923

Word count

1,570

Sentence count

218

Harmful content

Misogyny

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I speak to a man who went to court against his ex-wife after she refused to let him see his son for 6 months. He talks about the process of getting a restraining order and how the court handled the situation.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 And so we have the Magistrates Court involved, we have CAFCAS become involved, CAFCAS.
00:00:08.000 CAFCAS, and can you tell them what CAFCAS is?
00:00:11.000 Well it's the kind of, I forget the entire acronym but it's the Court Advisory Service to do with family matters.
00:00:21.000 So early on typically you'll have Magistrates Court involved, Magistrates are lay justices, they're not specialists.
00:00:30.000 They are members of the community and CAFCAS will do some very basic investigations, interview myself, my ex, and give advice to the court on that basis.
00:00:50.000 Now this took six months for them to really pull their finger out and do their job.
00:00:56.000 And I was met with a CAFCAS officer, Andrea Ashanazi, she came from Romania.
00:01:10.000 Really someone who didn't want to listen to a single word I had to say at all.
00:01:15.000 I'd since moved into a very small little terraced house.
00:01:18.000 She came to visit me, I was looking forward to it, I was looking forward.
00:01:22.000 Can we just, I want to make sure I understand, so you get the documents and this is at the six month mark, CAFCAS finally comes?
00:01:28.000 Yeah, something like that.
00:01:29.000 Okay, so you hadn't seen your son in the time period because CAFCAS is supposed to investigate.
00:01:34.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:01:35.000 And so they're supposed to investigate the situation and you had to basically, she wouldn't let you see your son.
00:01:41.000 And you had to wait for six months for CAFCAS to come.
00:01:44.000 Yes, essentially.
00:01:45.000 And you thought this was going to be good because you thought you were going to get a fair...
00:01:49.000 Yeah.
00:01:50.000 Yeah, questioning.
00:01:51.000 That's right.
00:01:52.000 But then they send this woman and she essentially doesn't care what you have to say. 1.00
00:01:55.000 She doesn't give a damn, no.
00:01:57.000 And what was her name?
00:01:58.000 Andrea Ashanazi.
00:02:00.000 Andrea Ashanazi, okay.
00:02:02.000 And she, her attitude towards me.
00:02:07.000 Now, look, I appreciate that there are many families in this situation.
00:02:11.000 Now, I've always thought that maybe they are troubled families.
00:02:15.000 They come from, you know, they're on benefits, they're alcoholics, they're on drugs, whatever.
00:02:21.000 And we have areas like that in Shropshire.
00:02:25.000 And I dare say these people are used to dealing with families of that kind.
00:02:30.000 And that's certainly the way I was treated.
00:02:33.000 Like, you know, the first question, one of the first questions, how much alcohol are you consuming?
00:02:38.000 So what has this got to do with it?
00:02:41.000 You know, there was an assumption I must be alcoholic.
00:02:45.000 No, no, I have a little bit of beard.
00:02:48.000 I'm a real ale man, right?
00:02:53.000 Just a whole attitude towards me was one of, you're Scarmine.
00:02:57.000 You know, we're here to sort you out.
00:03:00.000 And I was just left appalled.
00:03:05.000 And my instinct was to say, well, no, I'm not that person.
00:03:11.000 I'm this person.
00:03:12.000 I'm kind of successful, a chartered engineer.
00:03:15.000 I'm a good father.
00:03:16.000 My son loves me.
00:03:17.000 I've got all these photographs.
00:03:19.000 Now, I don't want to see photographs.
00:03:23.000 She explained to me that children could be made to smile in photographs.
00:03:29.000 So they won't even look at them.
00:03:32.000 So I had a huge book of photographs ready to show her, look, this is me and my son having a good time.
00:03:38.000 This is my son and my mother having a good time.
00:03:42.000 It's there.
00:03:43.000 You can't deny this.
00:03:45.000 She didn't even want to see them.
00:03:47.000 She'd already made her mind up.
00:03:49.000 She'd already seen, been to see my ex-wife. 0.96
00:03:52.000 There was clearly kindred spirit there, both Eastern European, both.
00:03:58.000 And she just believed every last allegation she said as fact.
00:04:02.000 No word of, no doubt at all.
00:04:05.000 So she's coming in, getting the interview from you and it's very biased.
00:04:09.000 So what happens after that?
00:04:10.000 Well, it goes back to the magistrate's court.
00:04:15.000 I have to essentially accept the non-molestation order for financial reasons.
00:04:25.000 I can't afford to find this.
00:04:27.000 So she filed for the US people.
00:04:29.000 That's a restraining order.
00:04:30.000 Restraining order is very similar.
00:04:31.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:04:32.000 And she did that immediately, like the six months ago.
00:04:35.000 That's right.
00:04:36.000 Ex parte, which means I wasn't even aware.
00:04:38.000 I'm just trying to make a chart.
00:04:40.000 So restraining order.
00:04:42.000 I know it's the non-molestation order here.
00:04:46.000 Then CAFCAS has to get involved and make a report.
00:04:50.000 That's right, yes.
00:04:51.000 And then after CAFCAS, then it goes back to the court?
00:04:57.000 It does, yes.
00:04:58.000 Okay.
00:04:59.000 And then did you ever get an actual day in court?
00:05:02.000 Yes, I was several days in court, but these magistrates court early on.
00:05:08.000 Sometimes I had representation.
00:05:10.000 I managed to afford a barrister.
00:05:15.000 It was horrifically expensive.
00:05:17.000 And really I ended up...
00:05:19.000 How much did you spend?
00:05:20.000 Well, it was like £5,000 just for two or three appearances.
00:05:25.000 Okay.
00:05:26.000 So you spent about £5,000 in the time being?
00:05:29.000 To begin with, yes.
00:05:30.000 And just, I'm sorry to keep...
00:05:32.000 And in this time, you'd been kicked...
00:05:34.000 Well, you willingly left your home, but she was in the family home.
00:05:37.000 That's right, yes.
00:05:38.000 Okay.
00:05:39.000 So she's in the...
00:05:40.000 Were you still paying for the family home?
00:05:44.000 Not at that stage, no.
00:05:46.000 Okay.
00:05:47.000 Financially, the financials have always perplexed me because I made an offer.
00:05:54.000 I did the right thing.
00:05:56.000 I approached the agency.
00:05:59.000 I forget the name of the agency for child maintenance.
00:06:03.000 And I filled in the forms and they gave me a figure for how much I was expected to contribute
00:06:09.000 to her.
00:06:10.000 And this is in the six month period?
00:06:12.000 Yes.
00:06:13.000 Yeah.
00:06:14.000 Okay.
00:06:15.000 So how much...
00:06:16.000 Oh, so on top of that you're paying child support too?
00:06:18.000 Well, this was the form that suggested how much I should be paying to my ex-wife for child 0.96
00:06:25.000 support.
00:06:26.000 And I was happy with the figure.
00:06:27.000 It was something in the region of three or four hundred pounds a month, so not a huge
00:06:31.000 sum.
00:06:32.000 And I said, well...
00:06:33.000 And I presented that to her solicitor.
00:06:36.000 They denied they ever received it.
00:06:39.000 And they denied...
00:06:41.000 And this is part of the financial control thing, that they repeatedly ignored the truth.
00:06:48.000 That I was happy to pay that, but she clearly didn't...
00:06:52.000 She clearly didn't want it.
00:06:53.000 She would rather pretend I didn't do that so that she could accuse me of financial control.
00:07:00.000 So she has never actually accepted any money from me, which is unusual for these cases.
00:07:07.000 Okay.
00:07:08.000 Right.
00:07:09.000 And this really reveals her motives to be quite extreme.
00:07:14.000 That it was more a case of, she wants to sever all ties with me, financial, the lot.
00:07:23.000 Because she probably wanted to return to Poland with my son. 0.99
00:07:26.000 That was...
00:07:27.000 That was not stated, but that seemed to be pretty obvious to me.
00:07:32.000 Wow.
00:07:33.000 So...
00:07:34.000 So you think her goal was to sever all ties so she could go back to Poland?
00:07:38.000 Initially.
00:07:39.000 Yeah, initially.
00:07:40.000 Okay.
00:07:41.000 I don't have any doubts about that.
00:07:43.000 Um...
00:07:44.000 Okay.
00:07:45.000 So in this time period, you're paying the lawyers.
00:07:47.000 Um...
00:07:48.000 You don't...
00:07:49.000 You're not on child support, but you're not in your family home.
00:07:52.000 So you had to figure out housing otherwise.
00:07:54.000 That's right, yes.
00:07:55.000 Okay.
00:07:56.000 So then you get your day in court.
00:07:57.000 What happens?
00:07:58.000 Well, I represent myself mostly.
00:08:00.000 Um...
00:08:01.000 So I, um...
00:08:05.000 I am pretty clueless about the...
00:08:09.000 About what happens.
00:08:11.000 Guided by the clerk of the court.
00:08:14.000 Um...
00:08:15.000 But really, it's just a...
00:08:17.000 It's just a...
00:08:18.000 Kind of kangaroo court.
00:08:19.000 They'd made their mind up well before.
00:08:21.000 They'd received all the reports.
00:08:23.000 And there was actually very little to say openly in court.
00:08:26.000 I decided to cross-examine the CAFCAS officer.
00:08:31.000 Um...
00:08:32.000 Um...
00:08:33.000 My tone was not...
00:08:35.000 Welcomed.
00:08:36.000 It was said,
00:08:37.000 Well, this is not a...
00:08:38.000 A criminal court, Mr. Jones.
00:08:41.000 I said, Well...
00:08:42.000 Are we worried about the truth?
00:08:44.000 You know...
00:08:45.000 Apparently not.
00:08:46.000 And...
00:08:47.000 You cross...
00:08:48.000 So what did you cross-examine her on?
00:08:50.000 Well, just...
00:08:51.000 Just the...
00:08:52.000 The findings she'd made against me.
00:08:53.000 Uh...
00:08:54.000 And, um...
00:08:55.000 The way she'd basically accepted all of my ex-wife's... 1.00
00:08:59.000 Uh...
00:09:00.000 Allegations without any...
00:09:03.000 Without any question.
00:09:05.000 Mm-hmm.
00:09:06.000 There was no evidence backing up.
00:09:08.000 And I would ask her, What evidence do you have for this?
00:09:10.000 And she... 1.00
00:09:12.000 The question was...
00:09:14.000 Was...
00:09:15.000 We're kind of rejected.
00:09:16.000 Oh, you're not allowed to ask that, Mr. Jones.
00:09:18.000 What evidence they would have for the abuse?
00:09:20.000 Yeah.
00:09:21.000 Well, there was not.
00:09:22.000 Yeah.
00:09:23.000 But like the alleged abuse.
00:09:24.000 Exactly.
00:09:25.000 So you kept asking them what evidence they have.
00:09:27.000 So they have no evidence at this point.
00:09:28.000 None whatsoever.
00:09:29.000 None.
00:09:30.000 At any point ever.
00:09:31.000 Okay.
00:09:32.000 So then, what...
00:09:33.000 What do they conclude in court?
00:09:35.000 That...
00:09:37.000 Really...
00:09:38.000 I was to be thrown into the dustbin as a father.
00:09:44.000 For no real reason.
00:09:46.000 That I had to...
00:09:48.000 The only...
00:09:49.000 The only thing I...
00:09:50.000 I really accepted...
00:09:51.000 Because...
00:09:52.000 Look, there was a huge pressure.
00:09:54.000 Right from the beginning.
00:09:55.000 Right from the outset.
00:09:56.000 For me to accept...
00:09:58.000 Responsibility for things I hadn't done.
00:10:01.000 Right?
00:10:02.000 Why aren't you accepting this as truth?
00:10:05.000 Why...
00:10:06.000 Why don't you share responsibility?
00:10:07.000 I said...
00:10:08.000 Because this didn't happen.
00:10:09.000 I'm not an abusive person.
00:10:10.000 I'm a great father.
00:10:11.000 Et cetera, et cetera.
00:10:13.000 It's not to live.
00:10:14.000 I know.
00:10:15.000 It's not that it wasn't an enablement, simply.
00:10:17.000 I'm an easy slave guy.
00:10:19.000 We will get it on a62,
00:10:19.360 but that can we leave.
00:10:20.000 No...
00:10:21.000 וע angst.
00:10:22.000 I don't do anything like this...
00:10:23.000 Sadie or sindie either.
00:10:24.000 For me, my friends will be through.
00:10:25.000 motions to rape them out and switch as it should be around. 1.00