Pro-Life VS Pro-Choice Women Get into a Heated Argument
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss abortion, pro-choice, and pro-life. Are you pro life or prochoice? Are you in favor of abortion? Do you think it should be legal or not?
Transcript
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So today we are talking about abortion, a little heavy topic today, but so I have something
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that I'm going to read. So 214,256 abortions were performed in England and Wales in 2022.
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The highest rate since the Abortion Act was introduced in October of 1967. The standardized
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abortion rates for residents is 18.6 abortions per 1,000 women. Abortion rates for women
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under 18 has decreased from 15 per 1,000 in 2011 to 6.4 per 1,000 in 2021. 99% of abortions
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were funded by NHS. Abortion rates are the highest among women of, I'm just curious, guess what
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you think? What age is the highest? I'm just curious. Youngest, I think. Young. Up 20s, 16, 18.
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16, 18. Yeah, I would say probably maybe like 16, 21 or something. Okay, would you say? Mid-20s.
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Mid-20s. You're the closest. 28. 22. As the highest among women at the age of 22 years old,
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the largest increase has been between women between the ages of 30 and 34 years old. 82% of
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abortions in the UK were from women that were single. 49% of those women listed single with
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a partner as their status. 78% of the women noted their ethnicity on the forms were white,
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9% were aged, 7% were black, and 5% were mixed. 98% of abortions in the UK were performed under Ground
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C. That the pregnancy has not exceeded its 24th week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would
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involve risk greater than if the pregnancy were terminated of injury to the physical or mental
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health of the pregnant woman. 43% of women undergoing abortions have had one or more previous abortions.
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So question for the women. Are you pro-life or pro-choice? Just to clarify, if anyone doesn't know,
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pro-life is when a woman wouldn't have an abortion. Oh, wait. Oh, sorry. I'm reading this wrong. Are you pro-life?
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I don't know. Pro-life or pro-choice. Okay. Pro-life is when a woman wouldn't have an abortion and
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doesn't want other women to have it either. In pro-life, pro-choice women is one that wouldn't
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have abortions themselves but want other women to have a choice. A pro-choice, pro-choice...
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I'm sorry. Someone sent this to me and I'm like reading this wrong. Okay. Basically,
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like, would you have an abortion yourself and do you think it should be legal is the question.
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So then go ahead. No and yes. Yeah, I'm pro-choice. I think it should be legal and I would have an
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abortion. I am pro-life and I think it should be legal. Go ahead.
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Yes and yes. Okay. Well, you can't, but pro-life or pro-choice?
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I think abortion is wrong. Okay. So pro-life? Yeah. Okay. Pro-choice. Pro-choice.
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Hi guys. So today's topic is abortion and the question is, are you pro-life? What's your name?
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Why don't you start with your name, your age, and then are you pro-life or pro-choice?
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Okay. I'm Taylor, 27. Taylor, 27. I'm pro-choice. Okay. So, Blessing, you want to play the first video?
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What it means to live in a country that puts us in this position. And when you are a young woman
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starting out your career, your reproductive destiny matters a great deal. Nowadays, I couldn't take that
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for granted. I couldn't take that freedom for granted, the freedom of choice. We know that no
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two pregnancies are alike and it follows that no two lives are alike. That follows that no two
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conceptions are alike. So how can we have a law? How can we have a point of view on this that says we
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must treat everything the same? When you allow for choice, you allow for flexibility, which is what
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we need in order to be human. This is not a moral conversation about abortion. This is a practical
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conversation about women's rights. And by the way, human rights, because women's rights are human rights
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and the freedom that we all need to be able to, to choose and build our lives and have access to
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excellent healthcare. My own personal experience with abortion. And I don't think we talk.
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Okay. So what did you guys think of that video? So you can start and then go around.
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Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it's sad because she's talking about the woman, but she doesn't make any
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mention about the child. There's another life. There's two lives involved when we're talking about
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abortion and one life chooses to end the life of that innocent human being. So I think she's just
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totally, um, ignoring the other human being in the equation. Um, I agree with what she said. I think
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abortion should be legal. I think it's the woman's choice if she wants to have an abortion or not. Um, yeah.
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the fact that we are not just to consider, um, just the individual. I feel like human life, um, has,
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or the woman has a choice, the bait, the unborn doesn't have a choice. Um, so,
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you know, that should be factored in and because that is another human life as well. So, yeah.
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I think it's incredibly brave of her firstly to actually speak up and discuss a subject on such
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a large world stage that is so judged and like for her to do that is a, is a big step for the
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freedom of speech around this topic and has literally opened up the floor for this topic.
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I think considering the life of a child, it has to be encompassed of who is actually raising that
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child. You know, the child isn't just born and then becomes its own soul and its own being.
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It's raised by, as a byproduct of what the parent currently is and the pattern and the,
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and the blueprint that the parent has created. And if you haven't yourself done the work to enable
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yourself to be the best possible parent of only yourself and your inner child,
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to then be expected to raise another child would actually be a discredit to the unborn being.
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I think like to become a parent is to know that you're ready
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to raise another being and, and consider that actually you're passing on your blueprint.
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And if you still carry heavy trauma, then how can you raise another being to its best possible
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I feel like people raised kids with trauma all the time before.
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Yeah. I mean, I think we all carry trauma to some degree,
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but if there's certain parts of yourself that you haven't, uh,
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eradicated or developed, then like, to imprint that onto a child is like quite a big thing.
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Yeah. I think age gap, um, I'm sorry, age is really important when deciding whether to get an abortion or
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not. And, um, she was pretty old, that woman. So she, yeah, I don't really think she knows what
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it's like to be in a position of someone that's younger that might need to get an abortion, you
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know? Um, I think depending on the age, it's got a very big part to play in it. If you're 17, 18,
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you need to get an abortion because you know, you're not financially unstable to look after that child.
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And yeah, I mean, gotta have it. But then again, that all comes down to, you know, your decision
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to like have sex at that age, you know? Mm-hmm.
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And, um, at that age, I don't think people should be prioritizing this type of things, you know?
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Yeah. So you feel like it's kind of their own fault?
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Yeah. I had a lot of friends in primary school, um, and then they went to secondary school and they
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got pregnant at 17. Mm-hmm. And they kept like three of my friends. Mm-hmm.
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I don't know them, but yeah, now they all have children. Maybe even four now, I think.
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Okay. Go ahead. Um, yeah. So personally, I think obviously let's get the facts out there that
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obviously it is murder, right? Killing an unborn child is still murder. Um, and obviously it is
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a separate person. Like people think, oh, it's my child, um, or it's my partner's child, but actually
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Um, so yeah, like it is a fact. However, we have a free will and we have a choice. No matter what
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people say, no matter what they do, we still have a choice. No one can change us, not God,
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not devil. We can only change ourselves and we have that free will. So whatever we decide,
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it should be our choice. Okay. Um, what about you two? Um, I see you talking to your mic.
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Um, I feel like, like any challenge, you have to be ready for it. Mm-hmm.
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If you're not ready for it, then the results may go ways that you can't even anticipate.
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So I feel like the circumstances that people are in before they have a child should be taken
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into account heavily when making such decisions.
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Um, just the same kind of, I don't think you should bring a child into a situation if they're
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Like, just a quick question for my own self that's just been triggered is like,
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is it still classified as a human being when it can't breathe on its own?
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Yeah, but like scientifically, like if you can't take your own breath, is it still classified?
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I can share the science. Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
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Um, well, from the point of fertilization, when the sperm and the egg meet, that's scientifically
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the beginning of a new human being starts. So that's when we all, our lives all began.
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And then you just need time to grow into a more, you know, adult version of yourself.
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So is it still classified even though you're not dependent on your own breath?
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90% of, um, scientists say that life begins at conception.
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Um, so I'm curious. Um, okay. So for the people that are pro-life, so one, two, three,
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it's a good mixed panel today. When do you, so would you guys say that abortion should be outlawed
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completely? You would say, yeah, who, if you, me, if you say yes, raise your hand.
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You think it should be outlawed completely. Okay. For the people that are pro-choice,
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um, when, how long up to abortion, like should abortion be legal to tell? Um, up to birth,
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up to six months, up to three months, or if you have a different number, but those are the three
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I mean, of course, not up until the day that you're like gonna give birth, but I think the day that
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it's at now, what is it like 24 weeks or something?
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Yeah, you guys have six months. Also six months. Yeah, I think, you know, that if the doctors
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and people are saying six months is okay, then I think six months is okay. Okay.
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I mean, personally, I wouldn't have one, you know, six months. I would try and get as done as early
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as possible, but, you know, six months, then it's six months. Okay.
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At what point does it, like, maybe this is just my lack of knowledge, but at what point does it form
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form into, from a fetus to an actual being? Like, where is the form of the brain? And like,
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where is the form of the heart? Like, where does that actual scientific process, like, uh, transform?
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You know, yeah, you know this, right? Um, well, I mean, development is an ongoing process,
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right? So actually the heart starts beating at around 21 days. Um, and so a lot of women don't
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even know they're pregnant then. Um, and the brain waves, uh, around six weeks. At eight weeks,
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the baby actually has, um, the 90% of the same organs that we, that we have as adults.
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So it's actually very surprising. Wait, wait, say that again? The organ thing?
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So eight weeks, if you think about it, most women find out they're pregnant,
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you know, maybe they miss their period and they find out five, six, six weeks or something.
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I didn't even know that. So eight weeks, that baby that, or that embryo has, um, yeah,
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has 90% of the same organs that you and I have. At what point do we stop? Like,
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where's the transformation from like embryo to fetus to baby? I mean, these are just names.
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So these are just scientific terms. So, um, the word fetus just means little one in Latin.
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And that is from nine weeks. We call it an embryo. From the first point, it's called a zygote.
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Then we call it an embryo up to, um, eight weeks. And then from nine weeks onwards, it's referred to
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as a fetus. When a baby, when that child's born, it's now a baby. Then it becomes a toddler. Then it
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becomes, you know, child, teenager, adult. These are just stages of development. They don't say whether we're,
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you know, how valuable we are. We don't say, you know, that a teenager is more valuable than a
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toddler simply because it's older. Because it breathes for itself. Well, a toddler breathes for
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itself, doesn't it? Yeah. So I'm saying that a teenager is not more valuable than a toddler. But an embryo
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doesn't breathe for itself, right? It's required someone else's breath to survive. Is that when you think
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that life conception, like, so at birth? I'm kind of unpacking this as we go.
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Which is kind of interesting, actually. Yeah, no, it's fine. I'm just asking.
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Actually, something that, um, I don't know your name.
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Cass. Cass. Something that Cass said was like, oh, hang on a second. Like,
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at what point is it actually still dependent on, like, my breath to survive? Like, it's,
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it's not its own, is it a human, like, it made me think, is it a human being yet? Because it's not
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actually being on its own. It has to breathe through me. It requires everything from, when I say me,
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I'm referring to, uh, the female reproductive organs. Like, it's not being its own human at that
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point. It has to breathe through me. And that got me really thinking about the actual stages of this
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process. Because I'm just thinking, like, that argument, then you could abort it, like,
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a couple days before you give birth. Which, which I, I don't know about you. I think we'd agree that's,
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that's, that's a little late. Yeah. You know, I mean, I would agree with you. Yeah. Yeah. And so,
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yeah, that's the, if we go by the breath argument, um. But do you have any memories,
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anyone in the room, of eight weeks old? Because you're saying, oh, at eight weeks,
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it's breathing, at three weeks, it's breathing. I mean, I don't have any, I don't have any memories
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before the age of, like, five, but I hope they didn't kill me at four. You kind of formulate your
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memories at five. Um, what about, like, medical issues? Like, what's your opinion on that? Like,
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if a doctor said to, like, a mother, like, your child's severely disabled, it's not going to have
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a good quality of life. Like, they have a chance of dying before they even reach a certain age.
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Like, what's your opinion on that? Yeah, I mean, these, these are real challenges and real
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hard issues for any parent to have to go, go through. Um, but we, I'd ask, ask you, you know,
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let's say I am pregnant and then I have, I have a child and my child's disabled. You know,
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my child is born and I find that my child's disabled. Can I kill my child once it's born?
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Well, I mean, obviously not, but why not? Why not? If it's disabled, it's, it's not going to have a good
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quality of life, is it? Well, yeah, but at that point, it's already been born. I mean, you're not just
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going to kill your child because once it's been born, it's disabled, but. So what's the difference
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between that born child and that unborn child? Well, I don't think abortion's murder, so that's
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my opinion on it, so. So then your, so your issue is not necessarily about disability, it's about, um,
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choice? Yeah, so I was just saying, like, if they said, you know, some children live until, like,
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they're one, they're two, they're three, if they're really, really disabled and they're going to be
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completely dependent on the parent for the rest of their life and the doctors saying, you know,
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they're going to be, like, really disabled, would you be, would you still say to, like, a mother, like, don't
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get an abortion, like, carry on and, you know, birth the child? Yeah, I mean, I don't think that the
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disabled people are less valuable or less human than able-bodied people. And whether, I don't think
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they should be killed, born or unborn, because I think science tells us that they're just as much
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human in the womb as they are outside of the womb. And I don't, I don't know if you know this,
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but that's, like, a common argument for, do you know what eugenics is? No. Anyone? Eugenics? No? Okay.
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It's basically, like, trying to get, like, a more pure population, um, so a lot of people would,
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like, um, a lot of people would do that through, like, um, through, what would they say? So Planned
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Parenthood in the U.S. was started by a racist, and basically her whole plan was to, um, abort,
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they put abortion clinics in, like, the black community there, and then also in low-income areas,
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and then, like, disabled. Like, she felt like, um, you need to get, like, a more pure population.
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So when you say, like, should you abort disabled kids, it's kind of an argument for eugenics.
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But, I mean, I don't think you actually think that, but that's just, um, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
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Ruth, out of interest, if you yourself, um, experienced something in life that left you in
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a position where you were unable to look after yourself, and you were unable to speak, and unable
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to communicate, and unable to be able-bodied, do you believe in, uh, I think I'm saying this right,
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See, it's hard. I don't, like, don't think I believe in euthanasia,
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Like, what would you do at that end? So, like, as a, uh, as a being that has,
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like, uh, moved through certain stages of, like, human, uh, development for, again,
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what's for a better word, would you, yourself, at the end of it, um,
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would you still continue to desire to be alive despite the fact that you had no ability to
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continue experiencing life as you previously had? Like, do you believe in euthanasia at the
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opposite end of life also? Or is it just that, yeah, or is it just that they're, uh, beginning
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Well, I personally believe that every human being is made in the image of God,
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so that we all have, um, we're gifted with, with value and we have purpose,
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and that our reason for being is outside of our, ourselves, our own, there's a higher purpose,
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and so, yeah, personally, I'm not saying these things are easy, but yeah, I would, I would say
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And you would, like, out of no choice of your own, um, continue, like, you wouldn't have a choice but
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to be alive, but if someone close to you was in that situation and you knew that they're,
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um, they had expressed verbally their decision or, like, um, their desire, maybe is a better word,
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to want to be, um, again, like, I'm going to use the words put down just because I don't know a
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better phrase for it. At the opposite end of, of the human creation, is that something like someone
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that was close to you, if they become, um, severely, uh, disabled, is it something that you would respect
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as of their wish because they were able to communicate it and it was put on them as a choice?
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Or is that still regardless for you, uh, uh, a non-mover, like, no matter what communication
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had received, like, even if someone you love had, had explained to you really deeply that they didn't
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want to be alive if they were within a certain state and they chose verbally to you, confirmed
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that they did not want to be alive and wanted to continue down the euthanasian, I don't know if
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that's the plural for it, process, would, is that something that you would, uh, respect or is that
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something that you would still strongly disagree with yourself? Funnily enough, um, my grandmother,
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when she was alive, she, she used to express, um, that she wished she could go to Switzerland.
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It's always Switzerland. Yeah, she said that, like, because she, at the end, I mean, she,
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it wasn't like a long, long, long drawn-out one, but she made comments like that. But, um,
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because then it would be her choice, right? It wouldn't be. Well, I think that's the highest
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suicide, I don't want to misquote this, but I'm pretty sure that's, like, the highest suicide rate
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is among the elderly and it's not always, um, recorded because, um, it sometimes it's like I
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slipped and fell, you know? Yeah. They just get classified as old age, right? Yeah,
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and I just, I just think there's always hope. Whether, I think there's always hope,
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you know, there is, I'm not saying these are not easy situations, but I think that there is pain
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relief, there is, um, when, when someone is in those, um, difficult situations, it's an opportunity
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for people around them to just show love, to show compassion, to care for, and yeah, I just,
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I just believe in life and I believe in hope. So even if you had a verbal confirmation of choice
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from a... I could never support... You would never support that decision. ...intentionally killing,
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yeah, I could never. Even if it's for self? For myself. As in, like, like, that person has said,
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I would like to die, you know, I would like to end my life. No, because that, I mean, it's suicide,
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isn't it? It's just, yeah, I'm... A lot of people want to die because of self-pain, like internal pain,
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but that can, that could be a method for that. Some people, some people can try things. Some
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people don't get the right information and I feel like that's where a lot of people get lost. I've
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worked in mental health for a long time and that's all I heard. I want to die, I want to die, I want
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to die. But actually when you give them certain methods and, um, you help them process the information
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and, and, and their thoughts, um, they actually change their mind. So I think it's, you know, someone
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that wants to kill themselves, it's not like they want to actually kill themselves. They even want to
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change who they are or they want to, the pain or whatever they're going through to stop them.
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Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I'm curious. Um, so for the people that are pro-choice, if you guys saw
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new information, would, would you ever change your mind on that issue? Like, raise your hand if you
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would. What sort of information? I don't know, science, I guess. Like, if we would then go against
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abortion. Yeah, like, would you, is this an issue you'd ever change your mind on? So you would never change
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your mind. You would never change your mind. You, I think it's always like good to be open to new
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information. I don't think I would ever willingly dismiss an information source before I had
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witnessed it. I think it's always good as a human being to actually reassess your beliefs. Otherwise
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you're just like, you're just standing by your ego, basically. I think it's always good to keep that
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in check. Okay. What about you two? I feel like it's very situation based. So the science, I don't know
00:24:17.300
what new science would, uh, change because the science doesn't change like the situation that
00:24:24.660
brought the abortion about. So I feel like again, yeah, it's very situational. Depends on like the
00:24:34.420
actual circumstances the mother is in rather than what science actually has to say about it.
00:24:40.580
So, so no, I'm, I'm, I'm open to new. You're open. You would, you would listen? Yeah. I would
00:24:46.660
listen to it and I'll talk about it. But like, again, it would, it would be hard because you
00:24:51.380
think there's certain situations that like you would have a hard time telling someone they couldn't
00:24:55.940
get an abortion in. Exactly. Okay. I understand. What about you? I don't think any of us should
00:25:01.700
say what someone else, like when it's someone else's choice to become a mom. If you want to keep the
00:25:07.940
baby because you don't think an abortion is right, then that's your choice. Okay. So you,
0.59
00:25:12.100
you would never change your mind on that. Okay. Um, well today we're going to try. Um, so you have a
00:25:18.100
video? Oh, no, I'm, I, no, sorry. What? I don't want to. Oh, okay. It's, um, you can go. It's okay.
00:25:27.540
Um, but, um, yeah, if you have a video you want to show, right? Okay. Could you show the next video?
00:25:32.820
Oh, just quickly. What's your position on this? Oh, um, I mean, I'm pro-life, but, um,
00:25:40.100
I heard an interesting argument the other day that made me think, um, it was like by destiny where
00:25:46.420
he, it was something with like brain function. So I will say like, you know, I could be more educated
00:25:52.020
on the science. So that's, that's actually why she came on my show the other day. And I just thought it'd
00:25:55.540
be interesting to like learn what they had to say. And it changed recently. What your opinion changed?
00:26:01.860
No, I'm still pro-life. I'm still pro-life, but it was just an interesting argument where I was like,
00:26:07.300
um, I'd have to find the video, but it was by destiny. He was doing like pro-life pro-choice
00:26:11.860
and destiny is such a good debater. And I was just like, Oh, I've never thought about it that way.
00:26:16.660
But no, I, I'm still, I wouldn't say I changed my mind. I'm still pro-life.
00:26:21.060
Can I ask you a question? Uh, so both of you guys are pro-life. Um, I didn't catch your name as,
00:26:26.580
uh, Ruth. Ruth, Ruth. Um, so for example, my auntie, um,
00:26:31.380
she had twins when they were born, but one of the twin, um, was in critical condition.
00:26:37.460
And then when he was finally born, he was on life support. The doctor told my auntie,
00:26:42.820
he's going to suffer the rest of his life being on life support,
00:26:46.020
like feeding him through a tube and whatnot. What do you want to do? And it was a very difficult
00:26:51.060
decision and she just had to let one of the twins die. And I know like you might say that's wrong,
00:27:01.460
but I think there are certain situations you can allow abortion. Great. Um,
0.99
00:27:09.220
that if they're suffering, I mean, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't say yes for like, oops, I wouldn't say yes
00:27:14.660
for like the euthanasia where it's like an adult dying because you're pretty much at the end and
00:27:19.700
all you have to do is just fight through the end. And then, you know, you can state that you didn't
00:27:23.860
commit suicide kind of thing in a, in a, in a sense. Um, but then again, if it's, if it's a baby
00:27:29.220
being born and it's going to suffer for the entire life, I think, uh, that is one other condition that
00:27:36.740
I would stand with abortion, um, or letting the baby die. So that's it. So you're pro-life with
00:27:44.020
like a couple exceptions basically. Oh yeah. And I also want to get your view on what would you do
00:27:48.980
if you're a mother and you've just had a child and that child is going to suffer for the rest of its
00:27:53.220
life with, um, like it's sick. Yeah. Um, you're feeding tube, um, whatever. So what would you do?
00:28:00.100
I actually had a cousin that was in that situation. Um, I mean, I would just do everything I could to
00:28:06.420
keep, um, him alive. And if, if he died, he died. Like, I, I mean, I just think I'd have a hard time,
00:28:11.940
like killing, killing my kid, um, personally, but no, I had a cousin and he was only supposed to
00:28:18.900
live till he was three and he lived till he was like 12. Um, but it wasn't a good quality of life.
00:28:24.100
It was actually really hard to watch. So, um, I could see why it would be like hard for someone to go
00:28:29.540
through. My other cousin as well, um, from my mom's side this time, uh, she's, she was born as well as a
00:28:36.100
twin funny enough. And she was paralyzed from birth or, you know, she was okay, but the doctor
00:28:42.500
or the hospital didn't give her enough oxygen when she was born. So she started, um, her brain didn't
00:28:47.620
send the correct signals to her body. So she was just paralyzed. Now, um, she suffers in other,
00:28:54.500
in other ways. So she's growing up seeing her brother, uh, moving and walking, running,
00:28:58.980
playing football, and she's always going to be on a wheelchair. As many of you know,
00:29:02.660
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00:29:09.780
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