In this episode, we discuss the question, "Do Women Owe Society Children?" Do women owe society children? Do we owe anything to society? What could we possibly owe them? Is it possible for women to have kids?
00:04:30.980Does society give you, how do you, how does society give you debt?
00:04:33.980Because, where I come from, how I grew up, when it comes to protection, it's not the society or the government that protects me.
00:04:41.980When it comes to feeding me, and giving me opportunities, it wasn't the government that giving me opportunities or anything to make me prosper in life.
00:05:28.980Because how your, your idea of even going back to the word, oh, is going to be completely different to either me, or a few other people sitting here today, is going to have a complete different idea just because of our heritage and because of where we come from.
00:05:45.980I feel like you just have to speak for yourself, that's it.
00:05:51.980I would just like to express solemn gratitude to Western society for allowing all of us in this room of all different backgrounds, skin colors, ethnicities, religions, to sit in a room with a degree of civility without experiencing any sort of a mob attack on any of us or any of us being bought and sold.
00:06:06.980I think it's a brilliant thing that Western society gave us.
00:06:09.980And I think we do owe a debt to that, at least, at the very least, a debt of respect and a debt of gratitude.
00:06:17.980I mean that if, I mean that based on my ethnic background and yours, depending on when we were born and where we were born, society would have treated us differently, myself included.
00:11:15.980If it turns out that the only way that a cultural group can motivate women to have children is by forcing them, then the only cultural groups that exist in the future will be the cultural groups that force women to have children.
00:11:26.980And this is something we're increasingly seeing in places like China.
00:11:29.980You know, if we see society today as an alliance of disparate cultural groups, and we're asking why do so few people have children today?
00:11:38.980It's the culture that's in London, New York, all over the world today.
00:11:41.980It controls our media, it controls our centers of power.
00:11:43.980It tells people do what you want, be who you want, search for your happiness and your purpose in the world, but it doesn't tell people to sacrifice.
00:11:54.980And so what we do with the Pronatalist Foundation, sometimes it makes it so clear by, you know, I could never be a Noah, right?
00:12:01.980Because I'm like, hey, we want to maintain and hopefully increase this beautiful diversity that makes up our culture today.
00:12:08.980And then, you know, like, if I was Noah, like a unicorn comes up to me and it's like, hey, man, like, this is some pretty hateful stuff you're saying that we need to get fertility rates up.
00:12:16.980And I'm like, whoa, you don't need to get on the boat.
00:12:19.980Like, I'm just pointing out that in a world of collapsing fertility and to give an idea of how quickly fertility is collapsing.
00:12:25.980If so, I started caring about this when I was working in South Korea at South Korea's current fertility rate.
00:12:30.980If it doesn't continue to go down for every hundred Koreans, there's going to be six great grandchildren.
00:12:34.980If the U.S., if we assume that it continues to decline at the rate it did from 2010 to 2020, for every hundred Americans, this is assuming we have a generation every 30 years, for every hundred Americans, there's going to be 4.3 great grandchildren.
00:12:45.980And so what's so cool about this period in history that we're in is anyone who can motivate intergenerational fertility rates.
00:12:51.980And when I say intergenerational, you can't just, like, spam sex and have a bunch of kids or something.
00:12:57.980You have to make them want to continue your culture.
00:13:00.980Anyone who's doing that gets to play a role in this future of humanity and gets to play an outsized role due to collapsing fertility rates.
00:13:10.980What are the ways that you best see we can motivate people to have more children?
00:13:14.980The number one thing we need to do is protect any country you go to.
00:13:17.980You go to the U.K., you go to the U.S., anywhere you go, there's going to be high fertility cultural groups.
00:13:22.980The problem is, from the perspective of the urban monoculture, is these groups are deplorable.
00:13:27.980You know, they are conservative Catholics.
00:13:30.980They're Orthodox Jews, you know, as he was talking about.
00:13:33.980And so it sees its job because they're different.
00:13:35.980You know, anyone who's different from an individual's culture, it says, we've got to stamp them out.
00:13:39.980And so it takes their kids and it stamps out their culture and it says, just do whatever you want to be happy in the moment.
00:13:45.980Which none of these these older disparate, you know, high fertility traditions, Amish, et cetera, do, you know.
00:13:50.980And so I think the number one thing we need to do is we need to protect the children of high fertility cultures in any sort of deviant cultural group that says, look, I want to do things differently than what society is telling me the way to do it.
00:14:01.980Because I don't think society has things figured out right now.
00:14:03.980You know, I look at mental health rates.
00:14:05.980I look at, you know, I don't I don't I don't think that society has the right to say this is the only way to be.
00:14:12.980And I really love that, you know, the diversity in this room and all of the different ways that people see their their ancestry and their obligation to the future.
00:14:19.980Yeah, I think we should stop birth control as well for young girls.
00:14:23.980I think that's one of the biggest reasons why.
00:14:25.980You're on the you're on the band birth control.
00:15:01.980It means that they'll have a better future to actually have kids because everything down there is blessed.
00:15:07.980Well, and a lot of like you meet a lot of girls that like end up having fertility problems later and they can't directly link it like you don't know.
00:15:15.980I mean, they don't know for sure, but I know at least one girl that like she was she took one of the shots that they gave her like for like a nest like like the preventative ones or whatever.
00:15:26.980And, you know, she can't have kids and she's like 40.
00:15:29.980She and she was actually she was she watched me when I was younger.
00:16:40.980I think there should be choice always.
00:16:43.980But I guess my question is, at what cost?
00:16:47.980If society is collapsing, right, if we're not replacing the population and they predict we're going to have all these issues in the future, it's like, at what cost do we allow people to choose whatever?
00:16:58.980I'm not saying I have all the answers, but it's worth a conversation asking, do we allow everything and anything?
00:17:04.980Yeah, well, sorry, I think in terms of going back to your question, do women owe society babies, children?
00:17:15.980I think the word owe got a lot of people's backs up in there, you know, and I get it.
00:17:20.980But my personal thing is, do we need to push something back into society for giving us what we have in terms of our livelihoods, our everyday lives, our jobs and blah, blah, blah?
00:17:30.980Absolutely, because we need to keep this generation going.
00:17:33.980So I think the word owe, again, it was a bit of a, you know, just one of those, oh, I don't know, you know, basically where you're coming from.
00:17:41.980That's why a lot of people was a bit upset with it. But again, I'm a father of two, you know, beautiful boys, absolutely.
00:17:50.980And they teach me things every day. And I also teach them things, you know, and I think having children, obviously, it does fall more on the mom, especially when a dad goes to work and everything.
00:18:01.980So I understand the pressure of it. But again, I only see the beauty in it as, again, coming from a father's point of view.
00:18:07.980And even even the word, oh, when you think about it, like, I think you owe society, you know, to be a decent, non crime committing tax paying citizen.
00:18:17.980Yeah, but we can say that freely. No one would argue. But when you ask about children, there's a gut, you know, it's almost too much.
00:18:25.980I wanted to add some color to like the plan B thing.
00:18:28.980And there's so many things in our society now where we think that biologically we're the same as like our grandparents were.
00:18:34.980But, you know, sperm rates have dropped by something like over 50 percent in the last 51 years.
00:18:39.980Testosterone's dropped something like 30 percent in the last 20 years.
00:18:42.980You know, Simone, if you want to talk about the TIDE studies.
00:18:45.980Yeah, I'm not really sure if you're familiar with them.
00:18:47.980TIDES, basically a bunch of longitudinal researchers looked at the levels of endocrine disruptors in women who are pregnant first trimester.
00:18:56.980And then they measured a bunch of things with the children they had afterwards.
00:18:59.980It turns out that the especially when they were pregnant with boys, they were disproportionately affected by endocrine disruptors,
00:19:04.980which are in everything from like receipts for picking up to our shampoo, to our lotion, plastic in our water bottles, et cetera.
00:19:10.980And in addition to boys being born with lower what's called anal genital distance taint, when they were age seven, eight, they had lower.
00:19:20.980We'll say gender dimorphic lower boy like play.
00:19:23.980So they were actually acting less like boys when they were older.
00:19:26.980So we're seeing a whole generation of young men who've been affected essentially by pollutants in our environment who who knows how else this is showing up.
00:19:33.980Probably infertility things like Malcolm alluded to.
00:19:35.980But, you know, I think that this should be reframed.
00:20:11.980From your fairies and what you're saying to me, you're telling me that certain people from the aspects of life, they don't deserve a future.
00:26:26.980And then I get to give the next iteration of myself any childhood I want to.
00:26:30.980The best childhood I can imagine for them.
00:26:32.980And then on top of all that, I get to tell them what I believe.
00:26:36.980And the most beautiful thing is they can say, no, you believe that because of some prejudice due to when you were growing up or some bias due to your childhood.
00:26:43.980The slate gets wiped clean and they can improve upon me in a way that I could never improve upon myself.
00:26:52.980But I think that, you know, to talk about it in terms of what's owed or what not owed.
00:26:56.980We're just trying to point out that if you don't have kids, then if you can, if you can work to like help your brother raise their kids, right?
00:27:03.980Then people like you might exist in the future, right?
00:27:05.980But then to stay stable, your brother has to have like five, six kids and you need to be helping with that.
00:27:09.980You know, you can't be helping with your brother's two kids because then there's going to be half of you in the future between you and your brother.
00:27:13.980No, no, I'm not, I'm interjecting with that.
00:27:15.980Wait, let him, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:27:19.980Why can't you be the best uncle and not the best dad?
00:27:20.980You have one rule, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
00:27:25.980What I'm saying is if you're a great uncle and you want to be stable in a population, so 2.1 is a stable fertility rate, so that means you would need to be a great uncle to a sibling with five kids.
00:27:36.980Okay, my brother, so say if you couldn't have children, so say if your sperm count and all of that stuff was not scientifically, scientifically imbalanced.
00:27:45.980Okay, I need you, I need you, I need you, I need you, I need you, I need you to stop interrupting everybody.
00:27:51.980I need you to stop interrupting everybody.
00:27:59.980By the way, you know, you made a really interesting point about like the number, the number you need to reproduce in order to keep the population stable, 2.1.
00:28:05.980Um, and that's sort, there's like a few logical steps here.
00:28:08.980I'm not going to go too deep into it, but there's a fundamentally big difference between a dad and an uncle.
00:28:12.980There's a lot of ways to be a bad dad.
00:28:14.980There's only one way to be a bad uncle.