This Is Every Divorced Man’s Nightmare
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode, I speak to Graham who has worked with Paedal Alienation UK and Fathers for Justice. He talks about his experience of being separated from his wife and how this affected his relationship with his son. He also talks about the trauma of not being able to see his son as much as he would like and how he dealt with the situation.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
UK. Today I have a special guest, Graham, welcome to the show.
00:00:04.980
So tell me, you've worked with Parental Alienation UK and Fathers for Justice.
00:00:14.800
So it was when it was the start of my separation, what was now my ex-wife.
00:00:21.300
I came home one day, the wife had left, knelt on the table, didn't know where my son lived
00:00:33.760
Over the first pretty much months, trying to get any form of communication with my ex-wife
00:00:37.880
was pretty desperate, pretty awkward, pretty toxic.
00:00:42.720
So did you see this coming or was it just out of the...
00:00:45.820
You had no clue. So it wasn't like a rocky patch, it wasn't...
00:00:49.880
Yeah, we were going through a tough time. There was issues with her mother and father
00:00:58.600
Okay, and because I didn't jump when they wanted me to jump, fit into the status quo they wanted
00:01:06.700
So for them it was, I had to very much get into line. I wasn't allowed to... So I was
00:01:16.180
So I was self-employed, going into big businesses and things like this.
00:01:18.980
That's a good job though. No, they didn't... But they didn't think so?
00:01:26.980
And grinded it out, if you like, from grassroots.
00:01:34.560
Of course, all of a sudden I financially leprogged most of them.
00:01:37.660
So they were, they were more educated, like they were like an educated family and they
00:01:42.240
just looked down upon you because you were not properly, even though school nowadays makes
00:01:47.760
you dumber in my opinion, but in a lot of ages.
00:01:50.540
Weird thing is, her father wasn't educated, wasn't educated himself, but pretended he was
00:01:55.960
some middle class gentleman. And, you know, it was a whole different world.
00:02:02.000
So you came home one day and she was gone? All her stuff was gone?
00:02:06.580
All her stuff. So she took some stuff, just a note on the table. But over the next six
00:02:11.820
weeks, she would suddenly start, she would still come into the house and would just be
00:02:15.100
taking little bits and moving bits around the house.
00:02:19.620
The notes said, um, I, I need some space. I need some time to, uh, decide what I want
00:02:28.580
to do. Ironically, two weeks before, which probably should have given an indication, she
00:02:32.640
was trying to say, let's have a trial break up. And I was going, you know, I'm not stupid.
00:02:38.560
You know, if you want to do that, that's fine. But I should still think that I should still
00:02:43.480
see our son, you know, and obviously I'm working full time at the moment. So while
00:02:48.000
you're working part time, let me see him every weekend. And then we'll kind of work
00:02:53.360
out from there. And that's really where the problem came. Because I refused to only see
00:02:58.600
him once a fortnight and one evening in the week. Bear mind he was only two at the time.
00:03:02.220
So the amount of time in the evening would have been good for him is quite slim.
00:03:08.580
And she didn't want you to see your son at all?
00:03:10.420
She, first of all, only wanted me to see him within the time she wants me to see him,
00:03:22.940
And evening the week. Every week. But for me, I want to be a committed father. I want to
00:03:28.680
be in my son's life as much as I can. And that was suddenly frowned upon. Because I wanted
00:03:34.860
to be in my son's life. When she then left, she said she went to friends for the weekend.
00:03:43.020
Didn't know where my son was. I said, okay, well, can I at least see him this weekend?
00:03:46.640
You have your time, but at least let me just see my son this weekend. Give yourself time.
00:03:50.960
She refused that. And then along came Monday. I decided not to come back. Clearly, that was
00:03:59.540
always going to happen. It was all about trauma. Because she knew I had a cousin coming over
00:04:03.320
for the weekend. And I was going to, obviously, me and my cousin and his kids were going to
00:04:09.360
have a day out. So she knew it would wreck that weekend. So it would be a weekend of the
00:04:13.820
most toughest for me emotionally. And humiliation. And as I'm not starting to come back, I will
00:04:23.760
discuss how, you know, reagents to see my son. So I left it. I was just changing jobs as well
00:04:35.300
at the time. Sorry, not straight away. So I was still in life and self-employed at the
00:04:42.260
time. The next couple of weeks, I was trying to have some form of communication with her.
00:04:47.240
And it was just very blunt. And then I had a text message from her out the blue saying,
00:04:51.700
would you like to see my son? I said, yes, I really would. Can we just speak over the
00:04:58.180
phone rather than text message? Is this just easier? And went complete radio silence. And
00:05:03.840
the next thing I know, if you ever want to see your son again, you have to go to court.
00:05:09.200
Now, there was also, prior to that time, there was a four to five week time span where you
00:05:13.920
were going, I'll apply for court. So don't do it. Don't worry about it. I'll let you know.
00:05:17.620
So she kept telling you she was going to apply for court?
00:05:20.200
I never did. And by how much time, how much time had passed? It was four weeks total from
00:05:26.100
like she left to saying in order to see your son? Five and a half months. Five and a half
00:05:32.240
months. So you knew he didn't see your son at all? Had no communication. Didn't know where
00:05:38.180
he was. I officially didn't know where he lived for two years. Wow. So, and at two years old,
00:05:44.680
that's like a different kid in six months. So when he was, yeah, exactly. So when I saw him on my
00:05:51.640
first day's contact with the court, when I did go to court, F4J, Father for Justice, really helped me.
00:05:58.360
Matt O'Connor was amazing. I had every other, I had every other weekend, four weekend, and the week in
00:06:07.440
the middle, I had him for half a day as well. And that was after the, wait, so I just want to make
00:06:13.100
sure I understand. So she leaves. Six months later, she says, you have to go to court. When?
00:06:18.260
So she left over the next four to, let's say, four to eight weeks. At times, it's kind of,
00:06:24.560
I'm so sorry if it's. So over that time, it was, I'm applying for court, applying for court.
00:06:30.160
Um, and then suddenly, oh no, it's not me. He has to apply for court, as be you. Um, uh.
00:06:38.040
And that was at about six months? That was about. Five and a half. Eight. About, yeah, between four
00:06:44.260
and eight, between four and ten weeks. We'll call it eight weeks. Okay. Okay. Uh, with, there's no
00:06:49.780
communication with my son, not knowing where they were. Um, uh, not knowing what was happening.
00:06:56.200
Then the son would be told that he wants me to apply for it. Um, but that was the point around,
00:07:00.080
I then engaged with F4J. Um, cause I thought, cause there was lots of communication back
00:07:06.660
and forth where I was being, all of a sudden being accused of everything left, right and
00:07:10.860
center, that I was a domestic abuser. Um, I was financially abusive. I was emotionally
00:07:17.100
abusive because we had one argument in seven years. Um. Wow. So this wasn't even like a
00:07:22.380
toxic relationship. This wasn't. No, no, no. You had one argument in seven years. And that
00:07:27.700
was two weeks before she left and I have a feeling and I believe that was. Because she
00:07:33.360
was on her way out the door. Wow. One argument in seven years. Like a shouting argument. Right.
00:07:40.700
You might have disagreements. Right. But a shouting argument, one in seven years. Wow. Okay.
00:07:47.700
So at four to eight weeks, she says roughly, you have to take me to court. And it wasn't
00:07:54.940
until six months that you got to court. Uh, yes. Okay. And then what happened? Um, so the
00:08:01.340
court, um. And by then, just, just to make sure I got it right. By then she had already
00:08:06.040
accused you of abuse. Okay. Yeah. So now you're going to court. With this thing, saying I'm,
00:08:11.480
I'm, I've, I've abused her, all the applications to court. Okay. Um. And I'm assuming she was
00:08:17.240
working with a women's shelter. Women's aid. Women's aid. Women's aid. Okay. So in the end,
00:08:23.040
she actually applied for court in the end anyway. So with the help of F4J, they positioned it.
00:08:29.560
They know the, they know the system. So eventually she actually had to apply for it anyway. Um,
00:08:35.840
at that time I'd also applied for it. I'd had a few pressures myself of people telling me I should
00:08:40.160
apply for it anyway. So it turned out we had two applications. But in the, in, in the long
00:08:44.060
run, it actually turned out that was actually a good thing because it showed that we both
00:08:46.560
wanted, because by her applying to court, she's saying, I want him to see my son. How,
00:08:52.120
you know, our son. I'm applying to court saying I want to see my son. Um, so you can't really
00:08:56.980
go to court at that point and go, I don't want him to see a child. So it kind of worked in
00:09:02.360
my favour, I think, on that one anyway. Um, the judge came straight in. Um,
00:09:10.160
and said, does Mr. Howard have, um, parental responsibility of our son? I said yes. Um,
00:09:17.160
she said yes. And you do have parental relation, sorry, parental responsibility of your son. I
00:09:24.160
said, yes, I definitely do. We were married at the time. Um, I am his father. I'm on the
00:09:27.820
birth certificate. Um, and then he said, well, there's no reason for him not to see the child.
00:09:33.560
There's nothing reported. Um, anything she's put in the application doesn't mean anything.
00:09:38.560
Um, and then he said, well, there's nothing, he said no reason for him not to be in and
00:09:39.560
he said no reason for him not to be in anything.