JustPearlyThings - June 02, 2023


This Is Every Divorced Man’s Nightmare


Episode Stats


Length

9 minutes

Words per minute

188.611

Word count

1,825

Sentence count

185

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I speak to Graham who has worked with Paedal Alienation UK and Fathers for Justice. He talks about his experience of being separated from his wife and how this affected his relationship with his son. He also talks about the trauma of not being able to see his son as much as he would like and how he dealt with the situation.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
00:00:00.000 UK. Today I have a special guest, Graham, welcome to the show.
00:00:03.920 Hi.
00:00:04.980 So tell me, you've worked with Parental Alienation UK and Fathers for Justice.
00:00:10.640 That's correct, yes.
00:00:11.580 What made you start working with those groups?
00:00:14.800 So it was when it was the start of my separation, what was now my ex-wife.
00:00:21.300 I came home one day, the wife had left, knelt on the table, didn't know where my son lived
00:00:30.500 for two years.
00:00:33.760 Over the first pretty much months, trying to get any form of communication with my ex-wife
00:00:37.880 was pretty desperate, pretty awkward, pretty toxic.
00:00:42.720 So did you see this coming or was it just out of the...
00:00:45.040 Not a clue.
00:00:45.820 You had no clue. So it wasn't like a rocky patch, it wasn't...
00:00:49.880 Yeah, we were going through a tough time. There was issues with her mother and father
00:00:53.420 and they're not particularly nice people.
00:00:57.820 Okay.
00:00:58.600 Okay, and because I didn't jump when they wanted me to jump, fit into the status quo they wanted
00:01:03.080 me to fit into.
00:01:05.080 What do you mean the status quo?
00:01:06.700 So for them it was, I had to very much get into line. I wasn't allowed to... So I was
00:01:12.180 an IT consultant.
00:01:13.940 A what?
00:01:14.560 An IT consultant.
00:01:15.600 Oh, an IT consultant.
00:01:16.180 So I was self-employed, going into big businesses and things like this.
00:01:18.980 That's a good job though. No, they didn't... But they didn't think so?
00:01:21.360 No, because I had no education behind me.
00:01:24.260 Oh.
00:01:24.380 Because I went from the start on my own.
00:01:26.120 Okay.
00:01:26.980 And grinded it out, if you like, from grassroots.
00:01:32.240 Who was I to do that when I'm not educated?
00:01:34.560 Of course, all of a sudden I financially leprogged most of them.
00:01:37.660 So they were, they were more educated, like they were like an educated family and they
00:01:42.240 just looked down upon you because you were not properly, even though school nowadays makes
00:01:47.760 you dumber in my opinion, but in a lot of ages.
00:01:50.540 Weird thing is, her father wasn't educated, wasn't educated himself, but pretended he was
00:01:55.960 some middle class gentleman. And, you know, it was a whole different world.
00:02:02.000 So you came home one day and she was gone? All her stuff was gone?
00:02:06.580 All her stuff. So she took some stuff, just a note on the table. But over the next six
00:02:11.820 weeks, she would suddenly start, she would still come into the house and would just be
00:02:15.100 taking little bits and moving bits around the house.
00:02:17.220 And what did the notes say?
00:02:19.620 The notes said, um, I, I need some space. I need some time to, uh, decide what I want
00:02:28.580 to do. Ironically, two weeks before, which probably should have given an indication, she
00:02:32.640 was trying to say, let's have a trial break up. And I was going, you know, I'm not stupid.
00:02:38.560 You know, if you want to do that, that's fine. But I should still think that I should still
00:02:43.480 see our son, you know, and obviously I'm working full time at the moment. So while
00:02:48.000 you're working part time, let me see him every weekend. And then we'll kind of work
00:02:53.360 out from there. And that's really where the problem came. Because I refused to only see
00:02:58.600 him once a fortnight and one evening in the week. Bear mind he was only two at the time.
00:03:02.220 So the amount of time in the evening would have been good for him is quite slim.
00:03:08.580 And she didn't want you to see your son at all?
00:03:10.420 She, first of all, only wanted me to see him within the time she wants me to see him,
00:03:14.440 which was once a fortnight.
00:03:16.060 Once a what?
00:03:16.840 Once a fortnight. Once every two weeks.
00:03:18.420 Oh, once every two weeks.
00:03:19.160 So in the UK, we call it fortnight.
00:03:20.260 A fortnight.
00:03:20.760 Fortnight is just two weeks.
00:03:21.880 Okay.
00:03:22.940 And evening the week. Every week. But for me, I want to be a committed father. I want to
00:03:28.680 be in my son's life as much as I can. And that was suddenly frowned upon. Because I wanted
00:03:34.860 to be in my son's life. When she then left, she said she went to friends for the weekend.
00:03:43.020 Didn't know where my son was. I said, okay, well, can I at least see him this weekend?
00:03:46.640 You have your time, but at least let me just see my son this weekend. Give yourself time.
00:03:50.960 She refused that. And then along came Monday. I decided not to come back. Clearly, that was
00:03:59.540 always going to happen. It was all about trauma. Because she knew I had a cousin coming over
00:04:03.320 for the weekend. And I was going to, obviously, me and my cousin and his kids were going to
00:04:09.360 have a day out. So she knew it would wreck that weekend. So it would be a weekend of the
00:04:13.820 most toughest for me emotionally. And humiliation. And as I'm not starting to come back, I will
00:04:23.760 discuss how, you know, reagents to see my son. So I left it. I was just changing jobs as well
00:04:35.300 at the time. Sorry, not straight away. So I was still in life and self-employed at the
00:04:42.260 time. The next couple of weeks, I was trying to have some form of communication with her.
00:04:47.240 And it was just very blunt. And then I had a text message from her out the blue saying,
00:04:51.700 would you like to see my son? I said, yes, I really would. Can we just speak over the
00:04:58.180 phone rather than text message? Is this just easier? And went complete radio silence. And
00:05:03.840 the next thing I know, if you ever want to see your son again, you have to go to court.
00:05:09.200 Now, there was also, prior to that time, there was a four to five week time span where you
00:05:13.920 were going, I'll apply for court. So don't do it. Don't worry about it. I'll let you know.
00:05:17.620 So she kept telling you she was going to apply for court? 0.99
00:05:20.200 I never did. And by how much time, how much time had passed? It was four weeks total from
00:05:26.100 like she left to saying in order to see your son? Five and a half months. Five and a half
00:05:32.240 months. So you knew he didn't see your son at all? Had no communication. Didn't know where
00:05:38.180 he was. I officially didn't know where he lived for two years. Wow. So, and at two years old,
00:05:44.680 that's like a different kid in six months. So when he was, yeah, exactly. So when I saw him on my
00:05:51.640 first day's contact with the court, when I did go to court, F4J, Father for Justice, really helped me.
00:05:58.360 Matt O'Connor was amazing. I had every other, I had every other weekend, four weekend, and the week in
00:06:07.440 the middle, I had him for half a day as well. And that was after the, wait, so I just want to make
00:06:13.100 sure I understand. So she leaves. Six months later, she says, you have to go to court. When?
00:06:18.260 So she left over the next four to, let's say, four to eight weeks. At times, it's kind of,
00:06:24.560 I'm so sorry if it's. So over that time, it was, I'm applying for court, applying for court.
00:06:30.160 Um, and then suddenly, oh no, it's not me. He has to apply for court, as be you. Um, uh.
00:06:38.040 And that was at about six months? That was about. Five and a half. Eight. About, yeah, between four
00:06:44.260 and eight, between four and ten weeks. We'll call it eight weeks. Okay. Okay. Uh, with, there's no
00:06:49.780 communication with my son, not knowing where they were. Um, uh, not knowing what was happening.
00:06:56.200 Then the son would be told that he wants me to apply for it. Um, but that was the point around,
00:07:00.080 I then engaged with F4J. Um, cause I thought, cause there was lots of communication back
00:07:06.660 and forth where I was being, all of a sudden being accused of everything left, right and
00:07:10.860 center, that I was a domestic abuser. Um, I was financially abusive. I was emotionally
00:07:17.100 abusive because we had one argument in seven years. Um. Wow. So this wasn't even like a
00:07:22.380 toxic relationship. This wasn't. No, no, no. You had one argument in seven years. And that
00:07:27.700 was two weeks before she left and I have a feeling and I believe that was. Because she
00:07:33.360 was on her way out the door. Wow. One argument in seven years. Like a shouting argument. Right.
00:07:40.700 You might have disagreements. Right. But a shouting argument, one in seven years. Wow. Okay.
00:07:47.700 So at four to eight weeks, she says roughly, you have to take me to court. And it wasn't
00:07:54.940 until six months that you got to court. Uh, yes. Okay. And then what happened? Um, so the
00:08:01.340 court, um. And by then, just, just to make sure I got it right. By then she had already
00:08:06.040 accused you of abuse. Okay. Yeah. So now you're going to court. With this thing, saying I'm,
00:08:11.480 I'm, I've, I've abused her, all the applications to court. Okay. Um. And I'm assuming she was 0.99
00:08:17.240 working with a women's shelter. Women's aid. Women's aid. Women's aid. Okay. So in the end,
00:08:23.040 she actually applied for court in the end anyway. So with the help of F4J, they positioned it.
00:08:29.560 They know the, they know the system. So eventually she actually had to apply for it anyway. Um,
00:08:35.840 at that time I'd also applied for it. I'd had a few pressures myself of people telling me I should
00:08:40.160 apply for it anyway. So it turned out we had two applications. But in the, in, in the long
00:08:44.060 run, it actually turned out that was actually a good thing because it showed that we both
00:08:46.560 wanted, because by her applying to court, she's saying, I want him to see my son. How,
00:08:52.120 you know, our son. I'm applying to court saying I want to see my son. Um, so you can't really
00:08:56.980 go to court at that point and go, I don't want him to see a child. So it kind of worked in
00:09:02.360 my favour, I think, on that one anyway. Um, the judge came straight in. Um,
00:09:10.160 and said, does Mr. Howard have, um, parental responsibility of our son? I said yes. Um,
00:09:17.160 she said yes. And you do have parental relation, sorry, parental responsibility of your son. I
00:09:24.160 said, yes, I definitely do. We were married at the time. Um, I am his father. I'm on the
00:09:27.820 birth certificate. Um, and then he said, well, there's no reason for him not to see the child.
00:09:33.560 There's nothing reported. Um, anything she's put in the application doesn't mean anything.
00:09:38.560 Um, and then he said, well, there's nothing, he said no reason for him not to be in and
00:09:39.560 he said no reason for him not to be in anything.