JustPearlyThings - Tilly MiddleHurst

00:00:00.000 Do we need men?

00:00:03.300 Most answered very quickly, no, because men are useless.

00:00:09.100 This headline from The Hill, it caught my eye.

00:00:12.020 Most young men are single, most young women are not.

00:00:15.040 Young men have fallen faster than any demographic in America over the last 40 years.

00:00:19.740 It's a different world now, like we don't need men the way that they used to.

00:00:22.780 Nobody needs men!

00:00:24.000 The future is female.

00:00:25.600 Men and women are drifting further apart, and society is crumbling because of it.

00:00:33.600 A fascinating debate has broken out about the value of marriage.

00:00:36.860 You've kind of got the trad con versus red pill thing.

00:00:39.540 This men's rights crowd that sometimes just goes too far the other way.

00:00:43.120 You need to stop acting like grown boys and infants and actually become men.

00:00:47.200 Marriage is a bond, and it's a sacred bond.

00:00:49.780 It's a machine designed to extract resources from you.

00:00:52.720 Now, many of the red-pilled have taken the position that it's bad for men to get married.

00:00:57.720 Hannah Pearl Davis, or just pearly things.

00:01:01.380 One of the most controversial faces in all of the internet.

00:01:05.020 She goes on to say that marriage is a terrible deal for men.

00:01:07.880 Because if me and you were in a business contract, you would never sign a contract where I am paid to leave.

00:01:13.080 Gee, what could go wrong there?

00:01:14.380 Seventy-four percent or something of divorces are initiated by women.

00:01:18.840 Men have everything to lose, primarily their own children.

00:01:21.720 Men get killed by the courts and by divorce laws.

00:01:24.400 I had no idea that courts of family law were courts of equity, not courts of law.

00:01:29.340 Because in family court, you don't need evidence to accuse someone of abuse.

00:01:32.540 You need no evidence.

00:01:33.380 When you guys say, get married young, a lot of these men don't know what they're signing up for,

00:01:37.340 and you're not going to be there when their entire life falls apart.

00:01:40.700 I interviewed them on the other side.

00:01:43.260 I didn't meet my son until he was 15 months old.

00:01:45.740 How much did you spend trying to get him back?

00:01:47.780 The legal fees alone was about $200,000.

00:01:50.100 Before you know it, you're homeless.

00:01:51.540 You're literally just thrown out onto the street.

00:01:53.440 We absolutely reinforce bad behavior from women.

00:01:55.760 Wives are taught to leave their husbands, and then daughters grow up without their fathers.

00:02:00.120 Family is the foundation of society.

00:02:01.720 Every problem in society comes from single mother homes.

00:02:05.000 A lot of women will just chase this negative rabbit hole of happiness, endless happiness.

00:02:09.300 Feminism's biggest failure is it lies to women.

00:02:11.260 We tell women to date as many guys as possible.

00:02:13.060 We tell them to put off family into marriage.

00:02:14.840 You are allowed to leave your perfect husband.

00:02:17.580 You are allowed to end a relationship with a really great boyfriend.

00:02:22.060 Freeze your ex, have an abortion.

00:02:23.900 What? You're evil.

00:02:25.120 I don't think there's anything else in life that we actually ever go into preparing to fail.

00:02:28.800 If you have the mentality of this is going to go wrong and be pessimistic, naturally the outcome is going to be that it's going to fail anyway.

00:02:35.800 It's self-sabotage.

00:02:36.700 That's the thing.

00:02:37.300 Women are so willing to leave marriages because they're not happy.

00:02:40.500 This is not about happiness.

00:02:42.260 The most important thing is the children.

00:02:44.620 And the problem is we have a modern society where it's me, me, me, my feelings, leave when I feel like it, instead of doing what's best for the kids.

00:02:52.160 This myth that we live in an age of male privilege, where's my male privilege?

00:02:56.940 They think, well, men have all the rights.

00:02:58.500 They have all the power.

00:02:59.840 Privileged patriarchal system that we have.

00:03:02.100 Why doesn't our society care about men's rights?

00:03:04.700 I have no friends.

00:03:06.020 No wife.

00:03:06.780 And no social life.

00:03:07.940 Men are alone in this situation.

00:03:09.860 Men are homeless.

00:03:10.820 Men are thinking about eating guns.

00:03:12.520 I've seen so many men on the brink of suicide and they didn't do anything wrong.

00:03:16.800 How are you equal if the men are the ones that have to fight and die to defend the country?

00:03:22.360 The men are the ones that build and maintain all the infrastructure.

00:03:26.280 Women are helplessly dependent upon men.

00:03:28.880 The so-called deaths of despair from suicide, overdose, or alcohol, three times higher among men than among women.

00:03:36.020 Culture is telling men, you are no good.

00:03:37.840 You've got to get your act together.

00:03:39.060 I think men have failed themselves.

00:03:40.660 What kind of a man are you?

00:03:41.900 What kind of a woman are you going to attract?

00:03:43.860 If men are in trouble, so are women.

00:03:46.300 Everybody knows this is a huge problem, but nobody wants to admit it.

00:03:50.220 Every single woman at the table said they wanted a man to get...

00:03:52.440 500K.

00:03:53.100 500K.

00:03:53.760 300K.

00:03:54.060 300K.

00:03:54.520 200K.

00:03:54.960 Am I crazy?

00:03:55.660 Everything is really set up against you to fail as a man.

00:03:57.900 If men make less than women, women don't want to marry them.

00:04:01.480 So you know who wants more economically and emotionally viable men?

00:04:05.380 Women.

00:04:06.860 I don't want to be an independent woman anymore.

00:04:09.020 I don't want to be a strong, independent woman.

00:04:11.260 I'm over it.

00:04:12.280 When is it going to be my turn?

00:04:13.720 Where are we meeting the men that don't stop?

00:04:15.420 I can't keep having these same conversations.

00:04:18.240 The only simp here is you, Pearl.

00:04:19.560 You simp for men.

00:04:20.020 No, I think you simp for women.

00:04:21.560 She's a provocateur.

00:04:22.540 She says stupid stuff, but Pearl is right about this.

00:04:24.980 It's already happening.

00:04:26.120 It's just not out in the open yet.

00:04:27.580 Now it's just hookup culture is going to be our fairytale ending because men don't want

00:04:31.220 a wife and women can't find a husband.

00:04:33.020 The future, if everybody follows your path, is there is no future.

00:04:37.540 We're going to population decline and our economy goes into decline.

00:04:41.480 Civilization will crumble.

00:04:43.240 The American story does not end well.

00:04:45.800 This is an existential crisis failing young men.

00:04:48.740 What's up, guys?

00:04:56.620 Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily here on the Audacity Network.

00:05:01.240 Thank you guys so much.

00:05:02.540 You could bring your time, attention, and resources anywhere.

00:05:05.820 And for some reason, you guys choose to tune into this show.

00:05:10.000 And for that, I'm eternally grateful.

00:05:12.000 Thank you guys so much.

00:05:13.000 If you want to donate to the Divorce Documentary, the link is in the description.

00:05:19.320 We have a GoFundMe.

00:05:20.260 We want to raise $100,000 to put on this documentary.

00:05:24.300 I've been demonetized, kicked off a TikTok eight times, Instagram three times.

00:05:28.940 They really don't want this to come out.

00:05:30.720 I'm telling you.

00:05:32.200 But our plan would be, and we just hit $36,605.

00:05:39.260 Thank you guys.

00:05:40.220 All right, we got an Ian donation, Robert donation, Whitney donation.

00:05:46.140 I always use first names just in case you guys want to be anonymous.

00:05:50.240 Sam, thank you for the donation.

00:05:52.400 Alexander, thank you for the donation.

00:05:54.340 We had about $100 yesterday, so I do appreciate it.

00:05:56.920 Thank you guys so much.

00:05:58.320 Almost 500 donations total.

00:06:01.580 All right, so a couple of updates.

00:06:04.380 If you guys want to go to theaudacitynetwork.com,

00:06:07.360 we are going to be doing another live stream on our Audacity Academy series tomorrow.

00:06:15.660 So last week I did some thumbnails, and I kind of talked about thumbnails I hate and thumbnails I love.

00:06:23.000 So if you want to learn, it's pearlinvite.com.

00:06:25.220 The other thing I was going to tell you guys is that all super chats, I'm having a little bit of a tech issue.

00:06:33.640 I'm getting a new laptop tomorrow.

00:06:35.360 When that is fixed, things will be better.

00:06:38.440 But be a little patient with the super chats, especially when we're doing a back and forth and we have a guest on.

00:06:44.600 It may wait until the end of the back and forth, the debate.

00:06:48.300 I don't really want to, you know.

00:06:51.040 The other thing is, I ask that you guys are respectful.

00:06:54.440 You know, I know you guys love roasting the guests, but sometimes it makes it a little bit awkward for me.

00:07:03.160 And I don't, if you have an attacker argument, not her, you know what I mean?

00:07:07.720 And it's just, please, we want people to come back and enjoy this.

00:07:12.780 So, okay, so today I invited Tilly on to have a conversation.

00:07:19.740 Okay, so this is a girl who is a self-proclaimed feminist.

00:07:23.840 She went to Cambridge and she debated Charlie Kirk.

00:07:27.200 So I thought it'd be fun.

00:07:29.020 We could have her on.

00:07:30.680 We're going to react to a little bit of her debate with Charlie Kirk.

00:07:34.600 So we're going to watch this and then we're going to bring her up.

00:07:40.460 So feel free to like the video, subscribe.

00:07:44.220 But yeah, you know, especially when I disagree with them.

00:07:47.540 If, if she, and you know what?

00:07:49.500 And I'll say it like this.

00:07:50.600 If the girl, if they're disrespectful first, fine, it's gloves off.

00:07:55.020 But we're going to, we try to go into these things in like good faith, you know?

00:07:59.880 And so if they're not being rude, there's no reason for you guys to roast.

00:08:03.940 Do you know what I mean?

00:08:04.480 Like you, we can, I know, I know, I know, I know.

00:08:08.620 All right, we're going to watch.

00:08:14.200 So I'm a feminist.

00:08:17.040 My question is about the role of women though.

00:08:19.720 What should women's role in public and private life look like?

00:08:22.560 And what are the material benefits of that?

00:08:24.920 Well, thank you for that.

00:08:26.820 Can, can I take it?

00:08:27.760 I don't even want.

00:08:28.300 I just don't even like, I don't like that question.

00:08:30.460 Should.

00:08:32.200 I'm not the pro.

00:08:33.020 I don't get to pick.

00:08:35.200 Like, what is this like make a wish?

00:08:38.540 Do you know what I mean?

00:08:39.540 It's like, should.

00:08:42.680 I, I, I can't make, you know, it's, what is it now?

00:08:46.720 It's detour, but.

00:08:47.380 Anyways, like the video.

00:08:48.400 I'd like to get over.

00:08:49.940 It would be cool to get a thousand light or viewers for when she gets on.

00:08:54.280 So, you know, like it.

00:08:55.520 Let's get this amped up people.

00:08:57.400 You both agree on what a woman is?

00:08:58.900 Yes.

00:08:59.500 An adult human female.

00:09:00.880 It's a biological state of being that is also socially experienced.

00:09:03.700 Can I please elucidate just one example of that social experience?

00:09:06.680 Yeah.

00:09:06.880 I was going to answer your question, but sure.

00:09:08.140 Go ahead.

00:09:08.440 Yeah.

00:09:08.680 Okay.

00:09:08.880 Okay.

00:09:09.220 So let's say you're a member of a tribe and that in that tribe, you have the biological

00:09:13.700 female anatomy.

00:09:14.760 And in order to become a woman in that tribe, you have to also get a tattoo.

00:09:18.120 That's a social experience that's mapped onto biological reality.

00:09:21.520 So can, can a woman have a prostate?

00:09:23.620 Can a woman have a prostate?

00:09:24.460 I would say biologically speaking, a woman is an adult human female that has a biological

00:09:29.300 reality, but it's also social experience, right?

00:09:32.320 So I, like, I don't.

00:09:33.340 It's super easy.

00:09:34.080 Like, can a woman have a prostate?

00:09:35.700 So as per my definition of a woman, I would say that people who have a prostate are biologically

00:09:40.420 male, but they can sometimes be socially treated as women.

00:09:44.020 Okay.

00:09:44.240 Got it.

00:09:44.520 So, so, so, so, so when.

00:09:47.140 So they can like pretend to be.

00:09:49.220 Okay.

00:09:50.260 All right.

00:09:50.640 Prostates.

00:09:51.240 Got it.

00:09:51.680 Okay.

00:09:52.700 All right.

00:09:53.220 Doug MPA keeps putting in the chat.

00:09:55.140 She has her phone.

00:09:56.120 It doesn't count.

00:09:57.000 Okay.

00:09:58.040 All right.

00:09:58.540 All right.

00:09:59.640 So you're a feminist that actually isn't just fighting for women.

00:10:02.860 You're also fighting for men.

00:10:04.420 So yes.

00:10:05.460 Yeah.

00:10:05.680 Men also experience harms from patriarchy, but I argue.

00:10:09.080 We're talking about the same feminism though.

00:10:10.260 Just make sure.

00:10:10.740 Yeah.

00:10:10.800 Sure.

00:10:10.900 Go ahead.

00:10:11.200 So men also experience harm from the patriarchal domination, but I would argue that those harms.

00:10:15.120 I like that she's got a American flag, USA, USA, even the Brits love us.

00:10:24.380 You know what I mean?

00:10:26.220 From that system of domination itself.

00:10:27.920 In the same way, for example, this isn't a threat, but if I reached across and punched

00:10:31.020 you in the face, then my hand might hurt.

00:10:33.320 Right.

00:10:33.600 So are we understanding that there are like patterns of power?

00:10:36.440 So I would also fight for the rights of men as a feminist, just as I would fight for

00:10:40.240 the rights of women.

00:10:40.780 Sure.

00:10:42.080 Do you think women are happier than they were 40 years ago?

00:10:44.640 I think I would have a few responses to that.

00:10:47.960 I think that women report more stress and dissatisfaction today because not because they

00:10:53.040 have more rights or because of feminism, but because they're under dual pressure to

00:10:56.320 both excel professionally and also because of the domestic labor in homes that is structured

00:11:01.240 around outdated expectations.

00:11:02.680 So for example, studies like the OECD's Better Life Index show that women's life expectancy,

00:11:08.080 education levels, professional achievements have risen in countries with higher

00:11:10.760 gender inequality.

00:11:11.900 So I would argue that what you're calling unhappiness is actually visibility because now we hear women

00:11:17.040 expressing dissatisfaction, whereas in the 50s, we prescribed them Valium and we lobotomized.

00:11:22.180 Yeah.

00:11:22.720 So I actually did agree with her here.

00:11:27.540 Women are just complainers.

00:11:29.660 Okay.

00:11:29.860 Women love to complain.

00:11:32.720 They love it.

00:11:33.720 So I don't really, I don't think women, how do I put it, women in the 50s probably also

00:11:41.600 complained, but they didn't have social media.

00:11:44.440 Now we can hear it.

00:11:46.960 Thank God.

00:11:47.980 You know what I mean?

00:11:48.580 It's like, but I'm not gonna, I don't, I don't like studies on happiness anyway, because

00:11:55.800 it's very subjective.

00:11:58.140 So it's just not, yeah.

00:12:01.620 So it's just not, I think you're a happy person or you're not.

00:12:08.180 The happy people, they just tend to get married.

00:12:11.520 But I don't, I don't ascribe, you know, one to the other.

00:12:16.120 That's really rich.

00:12:24.220 I didn't know women not to complain 50 years ago.

00:12:26.480 That's funny.

00:12:27.780 So, hold on a second.

00:12:29.660 I know we love complaining.

00:12:31.780 That's the comment.

00:12:34.980 Suicide rates going up more for women.

00:12:37.080 I think that encourages.

00:12:38.520 Materially women are killing themselves more.

00:12:40.460 Why is that?

00:12:41.220 I think that even if both men, both men and women have become unhappier, men's suicide

00:12:45.560 rates have risen as well.

00:12:46.520 And that's also been exponential.

00:12:47.960 Can you at least concede that feminism offers only one potential explanation?

00:12:51.460 There could be also other explanations.

00:12:52.640 Of course, obviously.

00:12:53.400 But feminism is the glaring thing in front of us where we have fertility rates down.

00:12:57.900 We have marriage rates down.

00:12:59.240 We have unhappiness up.

00:13:01.100 Doug, blah, blah, blah.

00:13:02.400 Read off my phone.

00:13:03.160 I get it.

00:13:03.800 You don't like the phones.

00:13:05.140 All right.

00:13:05.520 All right.

00:13:05.720 I get it.

00:13:06.520 It's something in the 1960s out of the universities of Bredy Friedan and Gloria Steinem and all these

00:13:11.720 feminists that basically said, you're trapped in a home.

00:13:14.040 Go get a job.

00:13:14.600 Freeze your eggs.

00:13:15.280 Take birth control.

00:13:16.380 And all of a sudden, women are way unhappier than they were 40 years ago.

00:13:19.660 And I just have to ask the question, why is that?

00:13:22.080 Is it working?

00:13:23.140 And maybe there are biological differences between men and women that we should respect

00:13:26.880 and that deep down, a lot of women want to get married and have children.

00:13:30.140 Women do not want to get married and have children.

00:13:33.840 I think the abortion rates prove that.

00:13:36.120 So I don't know how people still think that.

00:13:42.180 We should applaud it and we should support it.

00:13:44.160 And we should say it means nothing if you're going to be a CEO of some shoe company or be

00:13:48.200 some banker in London.

00:13:49.140 What matters if you raise children and you have something to pass down long after you're

00:13:53.500 gone?

00:13:53.700 I think I would bring two points to that.

00:13:55.220 The first one is just really simple, which is that you can ascribe liberalism all you

00:13:58.320 want as the cause of the unhappiness.

00:13:59.640 I would argue something else.

00:14:00.860 I would say that it's certain economic policy that has very little to do with the social

00:14:03.880 acceptance of alternative lifestyles.

00:14:05.720 I would say that we can recognize that income inequality across a vast swathe of Western

00:14:09.260 countries has increased, which causes all kinds of social ills, a lack of social cohesion,

00:14:13.120 housing price growth doesn't correspond with wage growth.

00:14:15.240 Monopolies increasingly become kind of emboldened to interfere with politics and monopolies don't

00:14:19.860 prioritize social health either.

00:14:21.320 I think that those offer more compelling reasons for a decline in happiness than an increase

00:14:24.740 in freedoms.

00:14:25.420 Because just one more thing on an intuitive basis, generally speaking, people want more

00:14:29.000 freedom, not less.

00:14:30.640 OK, so if that's true, why is it do you agree that the happiest women in the West are married

00:14:34.660 with kids?

00:14:36.600 I don't.

00:14:38.220 Sorry.

00:14:40.440 I think that the base is just unhappiness with women.

00:14:43.800 We just love to complain.

00:14:45.840 So I think we'll go from like complaining to more complaining to just like complaining,

00:14:52.260 you know, I would have to look into it.

00:14:54.720 But I think there are certain there are certain objectively we know that.

00:14:57.220 Right.

00:14:57.360 The women with kids are not the ones tearing down statues.

00:14:59.260 Right.

00:14:59.880 They're the ones that actually have obligations.

00:15:01.780 Tearing down statues correspond to some kind of smiles per capita data set that I wasn't

00:15:05.320 aware of.

00:15:05.780 Again, it's like it's a little bit of a one liner.

00:15:09.480 The happy and the grateful.

00:15:11.840 The happy and the grateful usually don't go.

00:15:13.560 Yeah.

00:15:13.780 OK.

00:15:14.380 All right.

00:15:14.680 You guys get the idea.

00:15:15.860 Is that enough?

00:15:17.840 Do we still need are we.

00:15:20.920 Do we get an idea?

00:15:22.100 We can we can watch like one more minute.

00:15:24.120 And then I'm going to bring her up because.

00:15:26.700 All right.

00:15:27.340 In their spare time, of which we saw in our country all throughout a single summer.

00:15:30.360 But as a side note, you would agree objectively, study after study, survey after survey, that

00:15:34.880 the women of the West that are married and have children, especially a lot of children,

00:15:38.300 are far happier than even the ones that earn more money correlated at the same age.

00:15:41.880 So I also don't think that happiness is a very good metric and neither do you because

00:15:45.240 you think gay people shouldn't just pursue happiness by being gay.

00:15:47.780 They have other moralistic considerations to be making.

00:15:50.220 So I don't think smiles per capita is a particularly convincing way to measure whether or not we

00:15:54.540 should encourage women to be autonomous.

00:15:56.140 I think we should maximize agency within a fair system that has reasonable parameters

00:15:59.880 because it's expedient.

00:16:00.680 The economy now she's reading off a script again.

00:16:05.360 All right, let's bring her up.

00:16:06.840 So I brought her up.

00:16:09.320 Let me see.

00:16:11.040 Let's bring her up.

00:16:11.900 Give me one second.

00:16:14.740 Have the topics up here.

00:16:17.120 Can you guys tell me when she's on the line?

00:16:19.060 The the challenge is now I don't.

00:16:22.420 You'd have to see my tech issues.

00:16:25.080 It'll be changed soon, but you'll have to bear with me for the time being.

00:16:29.620 We're in the lobby just yet to unmute.

00:16:31.560 I'll let you know when.

00:16:32.680 Okay.

00:16:33.320 All right.

00:16:34.980 Well, I guess do you want to like text me?

00:16:37.180 We could just watch it till she comes up.

00:16:39.440 Is she ready or no?

00:16:41.240 Yeah, I'll shoot you a text.

00:16:42.420 I've been reaching out.

00:16:43.240 Okay.

00:16:43.840 All right.

00:16:45.680 Maybe she fell asleep or something.

00:16:47.600 It's early there.

00:16:49.180 I think she's in Britain, right?

00:16:50.780 Or it's late there.

00:16:52.480 It's the moral thing because if we can't prove the material harms, we shouldn't discourage it.

00:16:56.100 And also self-reported studies is a really flawed way to do psychology.

00:16:59.560 It's the week before my university exams right now.

00:17:01.760 And I'm standing here explaining the basic methodology behind survey collection in sociology,

00:17:06.880 which you don't even think is a real subject, to Charlie Kirk.

00:17:09.260 If I took one of those surveys right now, I'd check extremely miserable.

00:17:12.340 But so would a Palestinian child who's been taunted to miseries.

00:17:14.860 How are we going to measure that?

00:17:15.860 I just don't.

00:17:19.620 Do you see what I mean?

00:17:20.700 This is, she's kind of proven my point.

00:17:23.480 If she would check extremely miserable living in like the West, you know what I mean?

00:17:27.440 Like one of the best universities in the world.

00:17:29.740 And we still find a way to check miserable.

00:17:32.400 Do you know what I mean?

00:17:32.960 It's like, it's our base.

00:17:36.040 All right.

00:17:36.660 We don't need to roast me on the technology.

00:17:39.160 Okay.

00:17:40.040 I saw someone, I saw somebody say in the chat that they're like,

00:17:44.200 Pearl, your intro's too long.

00:17:46.860 Well, why don't you start a YouTube show and make your own intro?

00:17:50.660 Okay.

00:17:50.880 And you can have a short intro.

00:17:52.280 I'll give you that.

00:17:53.220 All right.

00:17:53.840 Sorry.

00:17:54.560 I love you guys.

00:17:55.720 I love you guys.

00:17:56.600 But sometimes I got to get, I got to, I got to give it back to you.

00:17:59.900 You know what I mean?

00:18:01.380 No, I'm, I'm kind of making a joke.

00:18:02.620 No, I mean, but seriously, but like, as a, but hold on.

00:18:05.620 I mean, like, that's an important point though, is that the women in the West have it the best

00:18:09.860 in the world.

00:18:11.200 And yet they're way unhappier than women of sub-Saharan Africa.

00:18:14.200 There's something fundamentally wrong here.

00:18:16.340 See, I don't think Charlie Kirk's no, knows what he's talking about.

00:18:20.540 I don't know.

00:18:21.060 The women in Africa, they're kind of doing the same thing.

00:18:23.520 I was in London.

00:18:24.420 I interviewed a lot of the people from these countries.

00:18:27.840 A lot of, a lot of the women in these countries, they're maybe 10 years behind, but it's the

00:18:33.960 Westernization is coming.

00:18:36.940 Women of sub-Saharan Africa have something that a lot of women in the West do not have.

00:18:39.940 The women in the West have cats and they have good jobs.

00:18:42.940 And the women of sub-Saharan Africa, they have a belief in the divine and they have kids.

00:18:47.020 And maybe there's a biological under...

00:18:48.800 Yeah, I don't agree.

00:18:49.700 You know, I think an unhappy person is just going to be an unhappy person with the kid.

00:18:53.840 Because how many of you guys had crazy mothers?

00:18:56.720 Put a one in the chat if you had a crazy mother who was not happy and then she had you when

00:19:03.700 she was still unhappy.

00:19:06.500 I do go live every night.

00:19:08.220 It's called putting in the work, okay?

00:19:11.500 Putting in the work.

00:19:13.560 That is keeping a lot of women from realizing their full potential.

00:19:18.340 And so without reading your phone and just like, you know, connecting...

00:19:21.580 I'm not really reading my phone.

00:19:22.520 Well, it's fine.

00:19:23.640 Sure.

00:19:24.000 Then you can answer.

00:19:24.680 That was a gaslight.

00:19:26.040 Tilly, what do you mean you're not reading your phone?

00:19:29.020 Fair enough.

00:19:29.980 Would you agree that it's a good thing that more women get married and have children in

00:19:33.880 the West?

00:19:34.580 I would ask you, would you say that a sub-Saharan African woman who's experienced female genital

00:19:38.200 mutilation and checks extremely happy in a survey?

00:19:41.040 And I also would check extremely happy in a survey.

00:19:43.020 Who do you think would be objectively more happy even if they both check the same answer?

00:19:46.880 Okay.

00:19:47.160 Again, so I fully, if you want to talk about how Islam mistreats women, we could talk all

00:19:50.440 day long.

00:19:50.760 Like, I'm all for that.

00:19:52.020 Me too.

00:19:52.900 Okay, good.

00:19:53.260 So we agree.

00:19:53.820 Absolutely.

00:19:54.100 We agree on many, many things.

00:19:55.160 My mother literally said to me, not mine, but in the chat, someone said, when I was a

00:19:59.680 little kid, by the time you were born, we'd given up on raising kids.

00:20:07.120 Do you know what?

00:20:08.260 Like, mothers just like say things.

00:20:11.160 Do you know what I mean?

00:20:11.940 It's like, you're like, you're like, that doesn't really make okay.

00:20:20.860 How can we learn about creating a YouTube channel?

00:20:23.460 Go to theaudacitynetwork.com and sign up.

00:20:25.960 On Tuesdays, we go live and so if you, really, it's a great, it's a great spend because you

00:20:36.460 can ask me directly about your channel.

00:20:38.840 So we go live every Tuesday after the show.

00:20:42.160 We'll end the show an hour early and then you can be like, oh my gosh, my channel isn't

00:20:47.620 growing and I can tell you why your channel sucks in a nice way.

00:20:51.360 I'll be nice about it, but maybe you're not entertaining.

00:20:55.520 And you got to work on that.

00:20:57.480 Maybe it's your thumbnails.

00:20:58.760 Maybe it's your titles, but I can go through it with you and I can save you a lot of time.

00:21:03.340 So I wouldn't sign up.

00:21:04.900 We should shut off Muslim immigration to the UK, right?

00:21:07.000 We totally agree.

00:21:07.700 I think that all religious fundamentalism is bad.

00:21:09.440 And if you take that logic, oh my gosh, can we please shut off Muslim immigration to the

00:21:13.420 UK?

00:21:13.700 I lived in the UK for three years and I, you know, nothing against the Muslims.

00:21:19.180 They were, they're nice people, but I did not living.

00:21:22.380 I did not like living by you guys.

00:21:24.300 I didn't.

00:21:26.560 I did not.

00:21:29.240 I don't think I've heard Oxford is nice.

00:21:31.120 I didn't spend a lot of time there, but where I lived, it was not the night.

00:21:35.100 Yeah.

00:21:35.360 Can I tell you why my channel sucks?

00:21:43.100 I did actually last, last session.

00:21:46.480 I, I ripped apart some of the thumbnails.

00:21:48.880 I'll even go through my videos and why I didn't, I don't think they performed right.

00:21:53.480 So I'm going to wear a hijab every Tuesday.

00:21:57.960 Are you guys insane?

00:21:59.640 I'm sorry to cut you off.

00:22:00.820 Tilly is on.

00:22:01.720 Um, Tilly, if you could just unmute, then we'll be good to go.

00:22:06.880 Everybody can hear me.

00:22:08.420 I can hear you.

00:22:09.760 How's it going, Tilly?

00:22:11.580 It's going great.

00:22:12.420 Thank you for having me on.

00:22:14.020 Yeah.

00:22:14.200 It's really interesting that you agreed with some of the things that I said in the debate,

00:22:16.800 even though we're ideologically probably super opposed, right?

00:22:20.220 Well, I don't know.

00:22:21.040 I don't know too much about you other than this debate.

00:22:23.920 So you probably have seen some of my stuff, but I don't, I don't know how long you've been

00:22:28.400 doing this, but yeah.

00:22:30.080 Yeah.

00:22:30.400 Um, it's been a couple, um, so you're at Oxford now.

00:22:34.960 What time is it there?

00:22:36.060 It's late, isn't it?

00:22:37.220 Oh, um, well, I go to Cambridge university, uh, but yeah, it's pretty late here.

00:22:41.380 It's, uh, one 23 in the morning.

00:22:43.460 I have like this huge Pepsi to keep me awake.

00:22:47.540 Okay.

00:22:47.880 Well, I'm glad you made it.

00:22:49.060 Thanks so much for coming.

00:22:50.940 Um, so what, what got you into debates?

00:22:53.460 Like what, are you on the debate team there or what, what's your, like, what's your background?

00:22:58.040 Um, I started debating when I was about 17.

00:23:01.500 Okay.

00:23:02.100 Um, and I ended up as a reserve for the national English team.

00:23:06.080 Um, and from there I've debated kind of mostly informally.

00:23:10.800 I haven't taken debate too seriously.

00:23:12.420 And then when I debated Charlie Kirk, I, uh, yeah, I, I started taking it a little bit

00:23:17.820 more, a little bit more seriously because that kind of blew up and I didn't expect it

00:23:21.400 to blow up to that extent.

00:23:22.860 Okay, cool.

00:23:23.480 Are you going to start a channel now or no?

00:23:25.980 I'm trying to start a YouTube channel, but I mean, you'll, you'll know your guy had to

00:23:30.940 talk me through how to even start this stream.

00:23:33.200 So I'm terrible with tech.

00:23:35.520 Oh, I am too, actually.

00:23:37.480 So it's no big deal.

00:23:38.980 Um, so can you give me a little overview of like your worldview?

00:23:42.720 So you're a feminist.

00:23:43.940 Um, you believe in marriage.

00:23:45.620 You don't believe in marriage.

00:23:47.180 Women are oppressed.

00:23:48.220 Men are oppressed.

00:23:48.620 Can you give me like a spark notes?

00:23:50.280 Do you mind or no?

00:23:52.040 A spark notes?

00:23:53.400 Um, yeah, sure.

00:23:55.200 I think when you sent me a few of those claims, I was quite interested.

00:23:59.460 Um, because to me, they felt a little bit ambiguous.

00:24:03.000 So for example, when you sent me the claim of asking me whether or not I believed in

00:24:06.760 marriage, I was thinking, well, sure.

00:24:09.320 I believe that marriage makes men happier.

00:24:12.560 According to statistics, as we both kind of agree, the self-reported studies are a little

00:24:16.580 bit flawed.

00:24:17.120 Um, but if we were to use self-reported studies, if we were to use that metric, marriage does

00:24:22.100 make men happier.

00:24:23.680 I also think that marriage is a contract between like a virgin and a rich guy is a little bit

00:24:27.920 antiquated.

00:24:28.400 Um, like antiquated, um, in the same way that for example, people getting married as a political

00:24:32.780 alliance or out of obligation to people's family, I think those things are a little bit

00:24:36.300 antiquated as well.

00:24:38.240 I think that in terms of, if we want to think about who's more oppressed men or women, I

00:24:42.580 think that it's potentially a slight distraction from other issues.

00:24:45.940 For example, I think that poor people are all oppressed.

00:24:48.500 I would never want to minimize like men's issues when it comes to being poor.

00:24:51.840 But I think that overall there are certain facts about being a woman that make it more

00:24:57.240 difficult for us, um, existing in society, I would say.

00:25:01.540 So I guess we can kind of delve deeper into it.

00:25:04.500 I didn't necessarily prepare like the summary of my worldview, but I think.

00:25:08.220 That's, that's all right.

00:25:09.120 I mean, I'm just, I'm just trying to have a conversation with you.

00:25:11.860 This isn't like a gotcha type thing.

00:25:13.700 I, I'm just trying to have a conversation.

00:25:15.320 So it kind of would help me, um, to understand your worldview a little bit when you come to

00:25:20.820 conclusions about what you believe, do you go to studies first or what you see in the

00:25:25.120 world?

00:25:25.460 What comes first?

00:25:28.140 I mean, that's actually a really good question.

00:25:30.160 I appreciate that question.

00:25:32.020 I think that it's silly to rely solely on either metric.

00:25:35.580 If I solely said, well, based on my personal experiences, I believe this thing, then I would

00:25:41.920 have all kinds of incorrect beliefs, right?

00:25:44.100 Because I have personal experiences that don't match up with what lots of other people's

00:25:47.940 personal experiences might be.

00:25:49.100 So I'm not going to solely rely on them, but at the same time, I'm not going to completely

00:25:51.960 cast them aside because for example, as, as a woman who's experienced being a woman,

00:25:56.840 I'm not going to completely cast aside my anecdotal experiences there at the same, you

00:26:01.620 know, I also think that studies are really important, but it depends who's conducted the

00:26:05.300 study.

00:26:05.660 It depends on the methodology behind the study.

00:26:07.840 Um, I mean, I'm a, I'm a studies fan.

00:26:09.740 I'm a bit of a nerd about that.

00:26:10.920 I mean, part of my political science degree concerns like methodology surrounding studies.

00:26:15.360 So, okay.

00:26:18.180 So what comes first?

00:26:19.500 If the study conflicts with your personal experience, what do you pick?

00:26:24.260 I think I'm always open to being wrong.

00:26:26.520 I think that most important thing is that you can falsify any claim.

00:26:29.700 Yeah.

00:26:30.320 Okay.

00:26:30.500 So, okay.

00:26:32.260 Because me personally, I go with what I can see in the world first.

00:26:37.220 I do like studies, but, um, I think the longer you're in this industry, you see a lot of people

00:26:42.800 funding them have agendas.

00:26:44.240 Would you agree with that?

00:26:46.560 Um, to some extent.

00:26:47.900 Yeah.

00:26:48.300 Okay.

00:26:48.640 I think, for example, you have think tanks.

00:26:50.500 I mean, organizations like Turning Point USA that want to promote traditional values or

00:26:54.680 disseminate certain conservative ideas across college campuses, when they come out with a

00:26:58.460 study about how actually the evils of, about like the evils of birth control, I might take

00:27:03.180 a little pause and question it there in the same way as if you have this super liberal

00:27:06.440 institution that says something about how some people are like ultra perfect and ultra

00:27:11.460 happy, like all the time.

00:27:12.920 And that feminism can do no wrong.

00:27:15.000 And that all women are like saints.

00:27:17.180 Obviously I'm going to call that into question, but I think that's a little bit less, I think

00:27:20.420 that's a little bit less likely, but I'm sure that you might disagree with that.

00:27:23.520 Okay.

00:27:24.600 So why don't we tackle marriage first and we can kind of go back and forth about where

00:27:28.580 we agree, where we disagree.

00:27:30.480 Um, and then cool.

00:27:32.460 Okay.

00:27:32.840 So you believe in marriage or you don't believe in marriage?

00:27:36.800 Can I just qualify that question and ask what you mean?

00:27:39.380 I don't want to pull a Jordan Peterson, but like, what do you mean?

00:27:41.460 Okay.

00:27:41.660 What do you think is the purpose of marriage?

00:27:45.520 Um, good question.

00:27:46.300 I think the purpose of marriage is some kind of, kind of partnership where both of you are

00:27:50.820 a team and in the process of becoming a team, you have certain legal protections enforced.

00:27:55.620 Okay, cool.

00:27:56.660 What do you think a woman gets out of marriage?

00:28:00.200 I think, I mean, it kind of depends on all kinds of factors, right?

00:28:04.420 Like, I believe that marriage is something that is like super intrasubjective because it

00:28:09.760 concerns relationships.

00:28:10.760 Like we can make broad sweeping statements about what it means for a woman to be married,

00:28:15.740 what it means for a man to be married.

00:28:17.540 Um, I think women can get quite a lot from marriage.

00:28:19.920 I think generally speaking though, men tend to get a bit more.

00:28:23.260 And the evidence that I have for that is that married men, according to the CDC, they live

00:28:28.640 about eight to 17% longer than unmarried men.

00:28:31.500 And also, and you, and you attribute that to marriage.

00:28:36.400 I think there are probably confounding factors like financial stability that comes from marriage.

00:28:41.380 Well, let's go with what you see in the real world.

00:28:47.280 Like you're in college, you see your friends who they go for, right?

00:28:50.800 Who they're interested in maybe marrying someday, dating, they're selecting for romantic relationships.

00:28:56.040 Wouldn't you say that they select guys that are in shape?

00:29:00.620 Like just in general, like the, the, the in shape guy is going to get more dates than

00:29:06.080 the 300 pound guy.

00:29:07.760 Do you think a 300 pound woman is probably going to have the same experience on the dating market?

00:29:12.180 I agree.

00:29:12.580 But, uh, but so for me, I wouldn't really attribute men living longer to marriage.

00:29:18.820 I think fit men are chosen.

00:29:20.540 And I think a lot of times like the conservative, and I'm actually going to go at the conservatives.

00:29:24.540 I think a lot of times they're trying to sell marriage.

00:29:27.040 And so they attribute everything good, um, about a person to marriage.

00:29:31.400 Would you agree?

00:29:32.320 Disagree?

00:29:34.500 Um, what do you mean by that?

00:29:36.400 So like, they'll say that someone's happier because they're married, but happy people are

00:29:41.480 selected for marriage.

00:29:42.580 Who wants to, who wants to marry a downer, right?

00:29:46.300 They'll say that people live longer because they're married.

00:29:49.340 And I, I think it's because they're fit.

00:29:51.600 People pick fit people.

00:29:53.100 That makes more sense to me.

00:29:55.400 Yeah.

00:29:55.880 I mean, I don't think we can necessarily measure this in the way that you think, just because

00:29:59.480 intuitively, when I think about this, when I think about the United States, correct me

00:30:03.380 if I'm wrong, but the obesity rate is extremely high in the United States.

00:30:06.340 Something like one in three people are obese.

00:30:08.520 So I don't think that, and that would imply to me that most obese people are not being

00:30:14.200 chosen, but that would also mean that like one third of obese people, one third of people

00:30:19.060 in the United States are like not getting married on the basis of the fact that they're fat.

00:30:22.080 Well, the thing is women pull the fat plug after they get married.

00:30:26.140 So on average, women, like gain weight.

00:30:28.600 Oh, hell yeah.

00:30:29.500 I mean, women, on average, women gain 25 pounds in the first five years of marriage,

00:30:35.520 which maybe at one point, pregnant and the average weight that you gain when you're pregnant

00:30:40.860 is like 22 pounds or something like that.

00:30:43.080 Yeah.

00:30:43.220 But I just reject that you have to, I mean, my grandma had nine kids gain weight when

00:30:48.320 you're pregnant.

00:30:49.160 Well, you can lose it after.

00:30:51.060 So, yeah.

00:30:52.480 So my mom ran a marathon six months pregnant.

00:30:55.600 She had like 10 of us.

00:30:57.140 It also kind of depends on how your pregnancy goes, right?

00:30:59.480 Like I know people who've had emergency C-sections where they've been in this emergency situation

00:31:05.060 where their child might pass away.

00:31:07.100 So what's had to happen is they've been put under anesthetic and that baby has been removed

00:31:12.220 from them very quickly.

00:31:13.260 There's not that much room for precision in the surgical process, that kind of thing.

00:31:17.420 And the recovery process is much longer.

00:31:19.340 So it would take like more like three years for that woman to lose weight after that.

00:31:24.220 I understand.

00:31:24.920 I just don't like excuses.

00:31:29.480 I don't like them.

00:31:30.040 It's not really an excuse.

00:31:31.160 It is.

00:31:31.800 It's just what happens, right?

00:31:32.960 Like if women get an emergency surgery where they're cut open across their entire stomach

00:31:37.320 area, then the chances are it's going to take longer for them to gain weight than a woman

00:31:39.820 who's had a natural birth with no complications.

00:31:42.100 I don't think there's any nuance.

00:31:44.360 I think if you got to eat less and that's it.

00:31:47.760 And I used to be pretty overweight, so I can say that firsthand.

00:31:51.560 Yeah.

00:31:51.980 But have you been pregnant?

00:31:53.500 No, but I know people that have and they got thin after.

00:31:58.020 I know people with really bad pregnancies.

00:32:00.780 So I just I don't think it's an excuse.

00:32:02.240 But my point is that it takes longer for people to lose baby weight if they have a traumatic

00:32:07.380 birth.

00:32:07.760 And that's not an excuse.

00:32:08.780 That's just a fact.

00:32:10.440 Well, it can.

00:32:11.740 Yeah, but I would still say that's an excuse.

00:32:15.460 OK, why?

00:32:17.040 Because there's people that don't.

00:32:18.500 Like there's people that let things like that make excuses and there's people that don't

00:32:24.340 and just lose the weight and eat less.

00:32:26.960 Well, it's not an excuse if some people aren't necessarily doing that thing.

00:32:29.800 I think that's not what qualifies as an excuse.

00:32:31.260 An excuse is like an unrelated reason as to why something happens.

00:32:34.960 I think there's a direct correlation or a causal link between women taking longer to like gain

00:32:40.140 weight to lose weight.

00:32:41.640 Sorry.

00:32:41.880 After having a traumatic birth.

00:32:43.140 I would just say put the donut down.

00:32:45.600 Are you like seeing that this sounds insane or not really that you eat less and lose weight?

00:32:56.500 No, obviously to lose weight, you eat less.

00:32:59.360 But also you also have to move more.

00:33:01.940 And it's really difficult to move more if you've had an emergency C-section and you've been in

00:33:05.660 your bed bound for like six to seven months.

00:33:07.800 Twelve hundred calories.

00:33:09.300 You'll still lose weight.

00:33:10.980 Most people.

00:33:12.020 OK, but I want to.

00:33:13.280 It's still a slow process.

00:33:14.760 And also I want to I want to go.

00:33:18.080 But I want to go back to because we're just going to go back and forth.

00:33:21.080 You think it's OK for them to stay fat?

00:33:23.120 I don't.

00:33:23.680 So it's fine.

00:33:25.020 All right.

00:33:25.500 So what do you women get out of marriage?

00:33:28.140 Well, well, I don't.

00:33:29.840 If you answered the question, I can't remember what you said.

00:33:32.500 So forgive me if you did.

00:33:34.040 If you can maybe make in a few sentences, what do they get out of it?

00:33:39.380 I think that both men and women get benefits from marriage and there are not.

00:33:43.700 Well, we'll go and we'll go into men's.

00:33:45.760 But I just want when I ask you a question about women, I want to stick to the women and then

00:33:49.960 we can do men later.

00:33:51.420 I want to ask you asking me in terms of benefits.

00:33:55.020 Do you mean legal protections, for example?

00:33:57.620 We could go legal protections.

00:34:01.520 Anything that you think they get out of out of marriage, it could be legal.

00:34:05.120 It could be emotional, whatever, whatever comes to your head.

00:34:11.380 Yeah, sure.

00:34:11.920 I mean, the first thing that I'll qualify is I don't think that marriage is necessarily

00:34:15.920 be all and end all in terms of having a happy and fruitful family.

00:34:18.440 But I do think that women who get married, they do experience legal protections in society

00:34:22.860 and that those legal protections are probably a good thing when it concerns children.

00:34:26.780 So, for example, let's say two people just cohabit.

00:34:29.820 A man and a woman are in a relationship and they have a child, but on paper, they're single.

00:34:34.540 What that means is that a custody battle is going to be a lot more difficult for them

00:34:38.500 because they don't have the legal channels through which to navigate that.

00:34:41.620 And I think women are likely to suffer a little bit more in that regard, just in so far as

00:34:46.680 like you might agree with me on a bioessentialist premise that women are more nurturing and

00:34:51.540 have more of an attachment to their child.

00:34:53.200 So you can even go with that.

00:34:54.180 I actually don't agree, but we could actually talk about it later because I'll write down

00:34:59.600 nurturing so I remember to go back if you want to talk about it later.

00:35:02.140 So you don't think women are naturally more nurturing than men?

00:35:04.620 Oh, hell no.

00:35:05.480 But we can go back to it later.

00:35:07.080 So let's start with legal.

00:35:07.860 That's super interesting to me.

00:35:08.800 Oh, hell no.

00:35:09.360 That's super interesting.

00:35:10.400 But okay, well, let's start.

00:35:11.580 Legal protections, anything else do women get out of marriage?

00:35:15.420 I mean, I'm not like an ultra proponent of marriage.

00:35:18.300 I just think it's a bit of a value-neutral thing.

00:35:21.040 And I think overall men are going to benefit a little bit more from marriage.

00:35:24.080 So how do men benefit from marriage?

00:35:27.380 Men tend to live longer.

00:35:29.660 And also something like, I think there was this US survey, and like we say, self-reporting

00:35:34.680 studies are flawed, all that kind of stuff.

00:35:36.580 But at the same time, more married men report being very happy with life compared to unmarried

00:35:42.980 men.

00:35:43.960 So they're more likely to probably experience happiness in a marriage.

00:35:46.580 You can talk about correlation type of factors.

00:35:49.000 But at the same time, I think we can both agree that being in a long-term, stable relationship

00:35:53.000 probably leads to the fact that you feel a little bit more happy about yourself.

00:35:56.880 And you feel a little bit more happy about the fact that you're working in a team and

00:35:59.960 that you're collaborating with someone to build something really nice and beautiful,

00:36:03.560 which is a wonderful relationship you have together.

00:36:05.820 So I mean, we can start there.

00:36:07.420 So you think men live longer and are happier because of being attached to a woman, essentially?

00:36:14.200 Like, isn't that good?

00:36:14.920 No, not necessarily.

00:36:16.020 I wouldn't necessarily pin it on the fact that I wouldn't credit women for it.

00:36:19.460 I would credit partnership for it.

00:36:21.940 I don't think that I'm not that person who's going to say, like, it's all down to women

00:36:26.460 when men are that happy.

00:36:27.660 I think there are loads more factors than just their relationships that make someone happy.

00:36:31.840 I would never deny that.

00:36:32.980 But what I would say is in a partnership, in a loving partnership, in a long-term partnership

00:36:38.760 that is happy and mutual and reciprocal, where you share burdens on an egalitarian basis,

00:36:44.120 then you're probably going to be happy.

00:36:45.460 So maybe the question is, is it the case that marriage makes people happy or is it the case

00:36:49.000 that good marriage makes people happy?

00:36:51.220 You know, I'm not one of those people who has particularly strong views about marriage.

00:36:55.660 That's fine.

00:36:56.400 Um, I, I would say that happiness is a skill and I don't, I think that's, it's your own

00:37:03.680 problem to make yourself happy.

00:37:05.960 And a lot of people go into a relationship and try to make it somebody else's problem.

00:37:10.980 I think that happy people are selected for relationships.

00:37:15.360 Have you ever met somebody that's super negative?

00:37:17.600 Who wants to date them?

00:37:19.240 Right.

00:37:19.760 I mean, who, who wants to date that?

00:37:21.040 I think it's also the case that like minds attract one another.

00:37:24.320 So often you're probably not going to have someone who's super happy all the time, date

00:37:27.940 someone who's a downer, but you do have people date each other who are both downers and kind

00:37:32.180 of both have this horrible life together.

00:37:34.200 So my opinion would be that marriage is a bad deal for men because men are expected to give

00:37:39.820 their emotional, their physical, their money, um, to women and they get nothing in return.

00:37:44.920 When they do get married, um, they, they tend to get, I'm going to tell you my opinion,

00:37:49.000 then you can go.

00:37:49.600 Okay.

00:37:49.800 Um, and then they get a woman who nags on average, she gains 25 pounds.

00:37:55.140 Um, she'll leave them half the time.

00:37:57.580 Um, so I would say, why should a man get married?

00:38:01.000 Um, and don't, if you give me an answer, please, I would prefer it not be something like happiness

00:38:08.840 or, um, living longer that we can't really prove came from the marriage itself.

00:38:15.280 Go ahead.

00:38:17.220 Sure.

00:38:17.720 I think it's, it's an interesting claim because there are so many factors that kind of go

00:38:21.960 outside of this.

00:38:23.180 Like, is it the issue that it's to do with getting married or is it that men are in a relationship

00:38:27.200 with women?

00:38:27.580 Because what I'm hearing is you can probably ascribe all of the issues that you ascribe

00:38:30.800 to being married to also just a man being in a long-term relationship with a woman.

00:38:34.440 So is it the marriage that qualifies it as something that's a miserable deal for men or

00:38:37.780 is it a relationship with a woman?

00:38:39.360 And insofar as it's just a relationship with a woman, are you advocating that men stop being in

00:38:43.200 relationships with them?

00:38:44.460 Okay.

00:38:44.800 So I don't tell men what to do, but the, the challenge you get with marriage is women

00:38:52.100 get the legal protections.

00:38:54.120 And what happens when women get legal protections is they just tend to not be too great with

00:38:59.220 it.

00:38:59.400 They, they automatically then have the leverage in the relationship.

00:39:03.960 And there are some ways that men are really not protected legally.

00:39:08.100 Like for example, in California, if a man signs the birth certificate and the kid, he finds

00:39:15.100 out at the age of five, that the kid isn't his, which is a really sad experience for a

00:39:18.980 guy.

00:39:19.300 I know men that have gone through that where they thought the child was theirs and it wasn't

00:39:22.880 right.

00:39:24.100 He still has to pay child support on it.

00:39:26.940 I think that's bullshit.

00:39:28.780 Right.

00:39:28.980 I know men, um, that are paying alimony to women that are destroying their lives actively.

00:39:36.000 And so the challenge is the challenge is we're going to, I'm going to finish and then, and

00:39:40.280 then I'm going to let you go.

00:39:41.140 Okay.

00:39:41.940 So the, the challenge is when you get into marriage, you're getting the state involved.

00:39:47.400 Um, and a lot of women, um, we can show the worst parts of ourselves, uh, when in romantic

00:39:56.460 relationships, I mean, we had, for example, pop songs talking about keying a guy's car.

00:40:02.200 You're younger than me.

00:40:03.080 So you might not remember, but there's like Carrie Underwood song where she's literally

00:40:06.940 there's a, yeah, yeah.

00:40:08.560 And so, you know, female spite is real.

00:40:12.400 And now you are allowing people have, how is that specific to women?

00:40:17.800 How is female spite?

00:40:18.660 How does that outweigh male spite?

00:40:19.860 Uh, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can go into that later, but I'm going to finish

00:40:26.460 this thought.

00:40:27.100 The difference is women can legally destroy men and, um, men don't have that up, that option

00:40:35.800 generally, unless they get a specific type of judge, but just usually they're not going

00:40:40.320 to get custody of their kids.

00:40:41.520 Um, they're not going to be able to put the woman on child support.

00:40:44.580 I would say men tend to be benevolent with women and women are not benevolent the other

00:40:49.960 way around.

00:40:50.540 Go ahead.

00:40:51.800 So how many men are legally destroying women through things like alimony?

00:40:55.780 If you have to quantify it.

00:40:58.800 Um, I don't know the exact number off the top of my head.

00:41:02.000 Last I checked, it was 10% of, like, uh, less than 10% of alimony payments around were from

00:41:10.840 women to men.

00:41:13.080 Okay.

00:41:13.900 So what the facts look like is that about 10 to 15% of any divorce in the U S involves

00:41:19.220 any kind of spousal support.

00:41:20.700 So we're already talking about a minority of situations where spousal support, including

00:41:24.800 alimony and child support.

00:41:25.920 Right.

00:41:26.100 But why would you put yourself at that risk?

00:41:28.120 I think is my point.

00:41:29.440 Like that's just an extra, even if it's 10%, you know, if there is a pill, if there is a

00:41:34.320 pill that has had a 10% chance of killing me, I wouldn't take that pill.

00:41:39.220 Do you know what I mean?

00:41:40.180 I would not be like, I'm good.

00:41:41.640 Well, I could give you, um, examples of, you know, men that have took the risk and it

00:41:45.660 didn't really work out for them.

00:41:46.840 Um, I mean, I'd rather not you give me examples.

00:41:49.200 I'd rather you quantify in some capacity.

00:41:51.920 Well, uh, it's kind of sucks cause I'm going to, so sorry.

00:41:56.020 Um, so I'll give you an example.

00:41:57.960 There is a guy in, um, in Texas who he had his kid legally like transitioned against his

00:42:05.340 will.

00:42:06.400 Yeah, that's not quantifying it.

00:42:07.700 That's still an individual example.

00:42:08.960 So if you can quantify it.

00:42:10.600 So for example, if I said to you, four, this is, this is a fact 400,000 people in the U S

00:42:15.380 receive alimony.

00:42:16.440 Oh, that's quantified.

00:42:17.520 Oh, actually, I actually have done the numbers on that.

00:42:19.860 Give me a second to pull it up.

00:42:21.160 It's in a different Google doc, but I can, I can pull it up, but here, keep, keep going

00:42:25.420 and I'll listen to, to your thoughts.

00:42:28.060 Here's a case that I'll make.

00:42:29.600 Okay.

00:42:30.180 It's quite a simple one.

00:42:31.500 400,000 people in the U S are receiving alimony.

00:42:34.780 About 3% of those people are men.

00:42:36.580 That's a very low number.

00:42:38.100 40% of households have female breadwinners.

00:42:41.060 So that suggests that basically you're right.

00:42:43.580 Hundreds of thousands of men can get alimony, but they don't receive it.

00:42:47.620 If I said to you, I don't have a six pack.

00:42:50.440 And then you asked me, do you work out?

00:42:52.700 And I said, no, am I being oppressed or do I just organically not have a six pack?

00:42:59.420 What I would say is that rights in liberal societies have to be like asserted to be realized

00:43:05.000 and courts are not mind readers.

00:43:06.340 Just like a job you don't apply for is not going to be offered to you.

00:43:08.820 A legal benefit you don't request are not going to be rewarded.

00:43:11.520 It's not going to be awarded to you.

00:43:13.080 So what I would say is like, if a man is not asking for alimony and fighting for alimony.

00:43:17.700 Oh, okay.

00:43:18.260 Yeah, exactly.

00:43:20.000 But that goes back to my point that men are benevolent.

00:43:22.660 So when they get leveraged, they don't tend to ruin their wives' lives.

00:43:27.600 So yeah.

00:43:27.840 I think it's more so the case that they would feel emasculated by...

00:43:29.940 So out of 100, out of 100...

00:43:32.180 Receiving money from a woman.

00:43:33.060 Yeah.

00:43:33.400 So out of 100 marriages, let's see, 50 stay married.

00:43:39.900 So 50 divorce, 15 of those divorces are obscenely malicious on the part of the wife towards

00:43:46.860 the husband.

00:43:48.000 Child alienation, financial ruin, otherwise known as a punitive divorce.

00:43:51.640 27.5 of those is that the man pays woman a lot of money when she can support herself

00:43:57.660 and get moderately frequent contact with the kids.

00:44:00.580 Still tough, but not malicious.

00:44:01.820 So that's out of 100 divorces, that's going to be...

00:44:06.320 That's 100 divorces.

00:44:07.980 No, out of...

00:44:08.900 Like, that's if there's 100 divorces, that's like the percentage.

00:44:13.460 So 15 out of 100 are going to be obscenely malicious, meaning...

00:44:17.640 So meaning the guy can't see his kids or he's going to be fighting for custody.

00:44:22.160 27.5 is that the man pays...

00:44:23.800 Fighting for custody, it doesn't necessarily mean something's obscenely malicious or all

00:44:28.320 its kinds of reasons as to why someone might fight for custody.

00:44:30.580 Like, have to fight for custody.

00:44:32.520 Or why someone might reasonably think that they don't want someone to have custody over

00:44:36.140 their children.

00:44:37.780 Right, but do you really have such a negative opinion of men that you think 15 out of 100

00:44:42.600 don't deserve to see their kids?

00:44:45.340 Is that like your...

00:44:46.040 Is that your opinion of men?

00:44:47.260 Like, that negative?

00:44:48.200 No, but I think that in family courts, when men do fight for custody, they win 60% of the

00:44:52.540 time.

00:44:52.840 So where's the bias?

00:44:53.640 Okay, so the reason...

00:44:55.040 Do you know why that is?

00:44:56.060 Like, why men don't fight for custody?

00:44:57.660 Um, because oftentimes there's not really enough evidence for them to make a compelling case.

00:45:02.420 No, no.

00:45:02.600 In order to fight for custody...

00:45:03.660 That's not why...

00:45:04.520 Hold on, hold on.

00:45:05.400 In order to fight for custody...

00:45:06.800 But see, the challenge I'm getting is I know you're about to spew a bunch of stuff and

00:45:11.920 I know you don't know what you're talking...

00:45:13.100 And I don't mean this to be rude, but you just haven't done the interviews and you haven't

00:45:17.260 like...

00:45:17.760 I would really be surprised if you've done it.

00:45:19.660 No, no, I don't think that doing an interview makes me more qualified.

00:45:23.920 Right, but...

00:45:24.760 I can interview any random guy off the street.

00:45:26.520 I don't think it makes me more or less qualified.

00:45:28.380 I think what makes me qualified is the fact that I've done the research and that's a small

00:45:31.920 significant sample size.

00:45:32.840 How much...

00:45:33.260 Would you say a stupidest small sample size is like more reliable or...

00:45:37.300 How much does it cost for a guy to fight for custody of his kids?

00:45:41.520 Legal fees are expensive for everybody.

00:45:43.180 Okay.

00:45:43.580 It costs a lot for a woman to fight for custody too.

00:45:45.760 Okay, but when I'm going to start with the men and then we can talk about the women later.

00:45:49.860 It's tough to have a conversation when you're trying to make a point and we're always going

00:45:54.320 to bring it back to the other gender, right?

00:45:59.120 But for men, what is the average...

00:46:02.740 People coexist in society.

00:46:04.020 You can't isolate a group of people.

00:46:05.860 Let's speak solely about the effects of one group.

00:46:08.740 What is the average amount that...

00:46:10.500 You said you did the research, so do you know the answer to this question?

00:46:13.320 How much does it cost to fight for custody?

00:46:16.540 I don't know.

00:46:17.600 Okay.

00:46:18.340 So you haven't.

00:46:20.440 And that's fine.

00:46:21.360 I'm not...

00:46:22.120 This isn't a gotcha.

00:46:23.020 I've done the research.

00:46:23.700 Okay.

00:46:24.020 Legal fees are expensive everywhere.

00:46:25.160 So it's about $30,000 a year or $30,000 to fight for custody.

00:46:32.040 And the challenge you get is a lot of these men are that really screwed...

00:46:34.420 So is fighting for custody something that only men are doing?

00:46:37.780 A lot of these men are screwed because they're working average jobs.

00:46:44.920 And so a lot of the men that get screwed are blue-collar men.

00:46:49.140 And so these are guys that make $35,000, $45,000, $55,000 a year.

00:46:54.420 And a lot of times the women will empty the bank accounts first, and they're kicked out

00:46:59.780 of their house.

00:47:01.240 And so they don't have the money to fight for custody.

00:47:07.400 And a lot of lawyers will tell them not to even fight because the court process is going

00:47:15.560 to take so many years, and they just don't have the money.

00:47:18.520 What I would ask you is a really simple question, which is, are legal fees solely exclusive to

00:47:26.400 one gender?

00:47:28.380 No, but the challenge is you have women's shelters that have programs that pay for women.

00:47:35.100 So if you go, if you look up like men's shelters, so if you go, I know, I know, I know, but the

00:47:43.140 mutual custody over their children with a man, I under, I under, I under, so I do understand

00:47:49.220 where you're coming from, right?

00:47:50.420 I understand that that's what you would think, that if a woman's going to an abused shelter,

00:47:57.100 shelter, right, that something bad happened.

00:48:01.500 But the challenge is when men are abused, there's no shelters for them to go to.

00:48:06.080 It's like one-

00:48:06.740 Because men are much less likely to be abused by women.

00:48:08.860 That's actually not true.

00:48:10.900 That's not true.

00:48:12.100 So if you look at most abusive cases, they're beating each other.

00:48:18.260 It's just like we said earlier, people with similar traits, they kind of find each other,

00:48:22.240 right?

00:48:22.460 You agree with that?

00:48:23.620 So most of the time when people-

00:48:25.020 That doesn't necessarily mean that people who are abusers flock towards one another.

00:48:29.400 People with similar traits might flock to one another, but people who want to beat the

00:48:32.700 shit out of their partner or not, it's oftentimes the opposite.

00:48:34.860 Well, so I spoke to them, so I, but here, here's what I, I know you don't know.

00:48:40.300 And so I spoke to Erin Pizzi and she started, she started, Erin Pizzi, Erin, Erin, Erin Pizzi,

00:48:47.540 Erin Pizzi, Erin Pizzi, she founded the first men's shelter in London.

00:48:52.720 And she also ran a bunch of women's shelters.

00:48:56.460 She's an expert when it comes to domestic abuse.

00:48:59.500 And from her, from her, you can look her up, right?

00:49:02.640 From her mouth, most abusive people, they just find each other.

00:49:07.540 So-

00:49:08.000 Okay, from Karen's mouth.

00:49:09.260 Well, if it's from Karen's mouth, then I mean, what are we to say?

00:49:11.920 Okay, so, you know, let's look at the facts, right?

00:49:13.800 It's your psychology, it's the facts.

00:49:15.640 So the, the most abuse, most abuse, look at, I'm allowing you to come on my show.

00:49:21.160 I'm allowing, I'm, look at, I'm going to let you go, but you got to let me finish, okay?

00:49:26.960 Most, most abuse is mutual.

00:49:29.740 When it comes to one-sided abuse, women are more violent than men.

00:49:33.440 When it comes to abusing infants and the elderly, women, by and large, take that stat.

00:49:44.160 That's not true.

00:49:44.700 Stepfathers are the, like, most likely person to be-

00:49:47.100 Right, and which, and the woman brought the stepdad into the life.

00:49:51.160 So when it comes to-

00:49:52.060 So it's a woman's fault when a man's abusing her, when a man's abusing her kid?

00:49:54.420 Yes, that is your fault.

00:49:55.840 If you brought in-

00:49:56.300 Either way, it's a woman's fault?

00:49:57.660 No, if, um, not if it's, if, if it's, you are responsible for who you let into your kids' lives.

00:50:06.120 It is, many women are irresponsible-

00:50:08.380 I'm not saying that women never bear any responsibility for things.

00:50:11.020 What I'm saying is, you just told me that women overwhelmingly abuse men.

00:50:15.700 I just told you, well, statistically, that's not true.

00:50:18.360 Men overwhelmingly abuse women, including stepfathers abusing kids.

00:50:21.300 It's not the case that overwhelmingly it's mothers abusing kids.

00:50:23.840 It's often the most likely predictive factor when it comes to abuse in childhood is having

00:50:28.820 a step-parent, specifically a stepfather.

00:50:31.120 So sure, you can say there's some onus on that person for bringing that environment to

00:50:35.060 the child, but it's also the onus is on the person who's abusing them, right?

00:50:37.880 It's about 50-50 when it's just abuse, but if it's just the biological parents, then it's

00:50:44.700 overwhelmingly the mother because 75%, 75%, 75% of abuse towards children and the elderly

00:50:53.400 are women.

00:50:54.740 You can look it up.

00:50:55.320 That is just not true.

00:50:56.840 That's absolutely true.

00:50:59.300 How many men compared to women sexually abuse children?

00:51:04.700 How many men- say that again?

00:51:07.120 How many men compared to women sexually abuse children?

00:51:13.320 Off the top of my head, I don't know.

00:51:16.120 It's more men than women.

00:51:18.080 Okay.

00:51:18.600 So it's-

00:51:19.560 Again-

00:51:19.940 That's one example that I know off the top of my head without looking anything up.

00:51:23.160 Mm-hmm.

00:51:23.720 And without making something up, without pulling it out of my ass, right?

00:51:26.540 Like, that's something that I actually understand.

00:51:30.160 Okay.

00:51:32.400 So that's one way in which I'm disproving a claim.

00:51:34.300 Okay.

00:51:34.680 Well, I don't think you disproved it, but I'll let the audience decide.

00:51:37.820 You told me that-

00:51:39.300 Okay.

00:51:39.940 That's fine.

00:51:40.660 That women overwhelmingly abuse their kids.

00:51:41.980 That's fine.

00:51:42.480 That's fine.

00:51:43.020 I said, well, men overwhelmingly sexually abuse their kids.

00:51:45.540 Well, women-

00:51:46.500 So even in the best case scenario, this is an equalized situation.

00:51:49.480 Well, I mean, you could take murder, for example.

00:51:52.120 And I'm not talking about abort.

00:51:53.380 I know the conservatives.

00:51:55.160 Like, if you look at infanticide, it's overwhelmingly women.

00:52:00.760 The police don't even look for a guy because, like, they're set that is, like, because it's

00:52:07.740 almost always the mother.

00:52:10.120 Can I-

00:52:10.480 Am I allowed to look this up?

00:52:12.100 Yeah.

00:52:12.540 Go ahead.

00:52:13.080 Google infanticide.

00:52:14.920 Because I attained a bunch of criticism for ostensibly looking things up.

00:52:21.520 Oh, I don't mind if you look things up.

00:52:23.580 I just-

00:52:23.940 I like to have a conversation, not read an essay.

00:52:28.640 Mm-hmm.

00:52:29.600 I know it's a different format, the other one, so I'm not holding it against you.

00:52:35.140 Okay.

00:52:35.740 This is interesting.

00:52:37.220 So-

00:52:38.220 Infanticide.

00:52:39.480 I'm pulling it up, too.

00:52:40.420 Intentionally killing an infant.

00:52:43.840 Wait.

00:52:46.300 Mothers.

00:52:49.020 Man or woman.

00:52:53.480 So-

00:52:54.240 Okay.

00:52:55.000 So this is, like, a best-case scenario where we can make this such that it's an equal amount

00:53:11.600 of abuse that is going on.

00:53:12.740 Because let's say we have a higher likelihood.

00:53:14.900 For example, like, a mother is more likely to be involved than a father.

00:53:17.960 So if a mother is in, like, if there's higher proximity of mothers around a kid more often,

00:53:23.920 then obviously there's going to be a higher rate of, like, murder.

00:53:26.400 Because I don't think that men and women are intrinsically incredibly different enough.

00:53:29.600 I think there are psychos across the gender spectrum or across both genders, however you

00:53:34.060 want to put it, right?

00:53:35.700 Yeah.

00:53:36.160 So they did look at that.

00:53:39.120 They did look at that.

00:53:40.660 And the challenge is, if that were true, as women spent over the last, like, 50 years,

00:53:48.040 abuse, child abuse from women has gone up, not down, even though they've spent less time

00:53:52.200 with their kids.

00:53:53.420 So if that were true, as they spent, like, less time, the abuse would go down, but it went up.

00:53:57.680 Um, and I also, I don't really like giving an excuse for child abuse.

00:54:02.620 I mean, we can, but I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't

00:54:06.260 know if, like, I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know if, like,

00:54:06.780 both men and women can be psychopaths and hurt children.

00:54:09.280 I don't think we should qualify it by saying, like, oh, well, only, like, women are intensely

00:54:14.320 more likely to be doing loads of child abuse towards children.

00:54:17.160 So, for example, if we take one metric, which is infanticide, which is a horrible thing,

00:54:20.460 and it's terrible that women are more likely to do it.

00:54:22.400 If we take that one metric and say, therefore, this means that all of this other stuff is not true,

00:54:25.840 then this is, like, intuitively a silly thing to do.

00:54:28.800 So, this is, like, me saying, okay, well, actually, that infanticide thing doesn't matter at all

00:54:33.020 because more men sexually abuse their kids.

00:54:35.400 Okay, well, I actually, so, I'm going to tie this back into what we were talking about earlier,

00:54:40.560 the nurturing, because it kind of goes together, right?

00:54:44.100 So, I actually think women are far more violent than men, and the only reason...

00:54:48.520 You know, that's not true.

00:54:49.140 Men commit most of the violent crime, like over 90% of violent crime.

00:54:51.600 That's true, but I'll get to it.

00:54:53.320 So, I think that if women had the strength that men did and could actually throw punches,

00:55:00.140 I would be terrified.

00:55:01.780 I would be terrified.

00:55:03.480 Well, that's true, because most of the violent crime that men commit is against other men,

00:55:06.720 which means that if women have the same properties,

00:55:08.500 they will be committing against other women on an equal playing field.

00:55:10.980 Women aren't murdering other women en masse, even though they have similar physical strength.

00:55:15.400 Okay, so the reason I think this is a few reasons.

00:55:18.520 So, as I said earlier, the first way I view the world is through real life.

00:55:24.340 That's how I personally come to my conclusions first.

00:55:27.680 Meaning, if you say, I have this study that says X, Y, and Z...

00:55:32.400 And you can just say, well, I heard from Gareth that, like, this is fake.

00:55:36.080 Yeah, that's totally fine.

00:55:37.660 And I can understand why other people wouldn't accept that or whatever.

00:55:40.900 But, okay, okay, well...

00:55:44.680 Like, scientifically speaking, like, it doesn't abide by any of...

00:55:47.760 I would say it's a good thing, because then you can't be manipulated.

00:55:55.120 Because if someone can just throw a piece of paper...

00:55:56.840 It's totally been manipulated by anecdotal evidence.

00:55:58.640 And, well, not my experience, but it's totally fine.

00:56:04.020 You don't have to agree, but I'm telling you how I came to my conclusion, okay?

00:56:07.480 So, the first way that I've come to this conclusion is because seeing how violent women were with me.

00:56:20.020 Women get upset, and the only times I've done street interviews and I've interviewed men...

00:56:24.940 I've even come in London in places that really weren't the best with controversial signs.

00:56:31.140 And women, you know, men will sit down and they will be calm, talk about their differences.

00:56:35.800 You know, I've had women threaten to attack me.

00:56:39.620 So, that's the first way, but that's not the only way that I've come to this conclusion.

00:56:43.680 The second is, I like to see who is more likely to murder the innocent.

00:56:49.980 Because when it comes to men, if you look at the murder stats, the majority of men in jail for murder, it was a bar fight gone wrong.

00:56:57.180 And the majority of women in jail for murder have done it because they've killed their husband who was raped.

00:57:01.260 Meaning, meaning, meaning they accidentally, they accidentally killed somebody with their fist.

00:57:06.760 Most men in jail for murder are in jail for an accidental bar fight?

00:57:10.160 Meaning, meaning, so it's usually a fight gone wrong.

00:57:14.140 Meaning that they killed somebody with their fist.

00:57:15.840 That's still a bad thing.

00:57:16.720 It's totally wrong.

00:57:17.740 Still killed the innocent.

00:57:18.660 Is it an innocent person still?

00:57:19.900 It's completely, it's completely, it's completely wrong.

00:57:24.940 However, I believe that if women had that capacity, it would be far worse.

00:57:30.680 And the reason I think that is because, and the reason, and the reason, well, what I look at is what they do with the innocent when it comes to children and the elderly.

00:57:42.240 When you look at abuse towards children and the elderly, it is 75% women.

00:57:46.740 Well, women are like 90% of carers, first of all.

00:57:49.140 You're welcome, you're welcome to look it up.

00:57:50.280 It's totally fine.

00:57:51.320 So, women are much more likely to be in the care sector.

00:57:53.180 So, obviously, they're in higher proximity around the elderly.

00:57:55.720 So, it's more likely that you're going to have psychopaths who are women when more women around the elderly are there to stop.

00:58:02.520 So, I would reject, I would reject that excuse.

00:58:06.200 I personally will not give an excuse for that.

00:58:08.680 That's just how statistics work.

00:58:09.940 You're totally willing, you're totally, you can do that.

00:58:12.780 Okay, what's more likely to happen?

00:58:14.040 A random guy goes into a care facility and he's not a care worker for the elderly and he just decides he's going to fucking kill loads of innocent elderly ladies.

00:58:21.440 Or is it more likely that someone who works in the care sector and is also more than likely happens to be a woman, like, is going to commit murdering?

00:58:29.360 Have you ever seen, have you ever seen, have you ever seen interviews with, like, pedos?

00:58:35.820 I hate saying that, but, like, you know, I'm not going to, I'm going to just say, I'm going to say, I'm going to use a different word because we're on YouTube.

00:58:41.220 Um, oh my gosh, what word do you call, I'm just going to say, I don't want to say, I'm going to say Edo's, Edo's, because I'm trying to, I don't want YouTube to get flagged.

00:58:52.720 Okay.

00:58:53.320 When you look at them, a lot of times they'll target certain industries because they have that inclination.

00:58:59.440 So, if I were going to go down that route, I would say that those people targeted them because they wanted to do that.

00:59:06.100 But, I don't think going back and forth about the reasoning is productive, I just look at what they're doing.

00:59:12.300 And, if I look at who's committing those crimes.

00:59:14.620 Sure, that's like a reductive way to understand the world.

00:59:17.180 Okay, totally fine.

00:59:19.600 Yeah, and see how, like, a reductive way of understanding the world is, like, not grounded in reality.

00:59:23.120 Yeah, I totally get it.

00:59:24.520 I'm not going to listen to you when you present me statistics.

00:59:27.560 I'm not going to listen to you when you present me facts.

00:59:28.580 I totally get it.

00:59:29.700 You think you're where.

00:59:30.400 Because I talked to an Edo and he told me this.

00:59:33.080 Like, it's actually, like, silly.

00:59:34.700 Totally fine.

00:59:35.360 And you think your way of looking at the world is better than mine.

00:59:37.980 No, no, it's the way.

00:59:38.240 Totally fine.

00:59:39.340 Like, it's totally your way.

00:59:40.800 It's like a the way.

00:59:40.920 You think.

00:59:41.480 Right, it's the correct way.

00:59:42.620 Like, I have a worldview which is a feminist view, and that is one way.

00:59:46.260 But the way is to use, like, scientific reality.

00:59:49.260 I would say that's.

00:59:50.320 Like, understanding of statistics.

00:59:52.960 I would say.

00:59:53.500 And recognition that anecdotes are very difficult to reconcile with one another.

00:59:56.260 That's, like, the way.

00:59:57.100 I would say that's a little egotistical, but that's fine.

01:00:00.780 No, no, this is not egotistical.

01:00:02.480 That's fine.

01:00:02.860 This is, like, me.

01:00:03.580 I mean, men invented this, the scientific method according to you.

01:00:06.900 So, like, I'm abiding by, by these enlightenment rationality values.

01:00:11.420 Yeah.

01:00:11.780 Okay.

01:00:12.180 So, let's, let's talk about who's more oppressed, men or women.

01:00:16.100 You don't like that question.

01:00:18.360 Is there another way that, I'll even give you the floor if you have a better way you

01:00:22.280 want to say it or come at it.

01:00:24.000 Go ahead.

01:00:24.340 Um, okay.

01:00:31.620 Who's more oppressed?

01:00:34.480 I think, I wouldn't necessarily take an issue with, with the claim necessarily.

01:00:38.880 I would just ask you to qualify what you mean in terms of oppression.

01:00:43.940 I would say it's having the freedom without the responsibility that comes with it.

01:00:54.860 A way that I would say, um, a way that I would say that, um, men are oppressed.

01:01:03.040 And an example I gave is a woman having the freedom to put a kid, um, a kid on a guy,

01:01:10.180 even on somebody else and commit paternity fraud.

01:01:13.780 I would say the man that is, um, cause he, sorry, I'm trying to say this in a better way.

01:01:19.180 When a guy is a victim of paternity fraud, when he has a child and, and he has to pay

01:01:26.160 for it, he has the responsibility of it, but it's not his kid.

01:01:29.420 And I would say that's a way that he's oppressed.

01:01:31.540 Go ahead.

01:01:33.420 Okay.

01:01:33.940 And do you think this outweighs ways that women have been oppressed as well?

01:01:36.620 Not just that example, um, but.

01:01:40.980 So what are some examples that would outweigh something that you predict I might say about

01:01:45.080 women being oppressed?

01:01:46.100 Well, I don't know your stuff and I'm just being honest.

01:01:48.960 I don't know.

01:01:49.900 I don't know what, I don't know what you would say because I don't know you that well, but

01:01:54.180 go ahead.

01:01:55.420 I mean, why don't you just think of a typical feminist and what you believe they understand

01:01:59.740 of oppression?

01:02:00.760 What, what is something that you would say outweighs all of that stuff in terms of what men, what

01:02:06.060 the cause that men are dealt in society?

01:02:07.940 Okay.

01:02:08.400 I, I don't know, but why, why don't you just tell me what you think and we could talk about

01:02:13.080 it?

01:02:15.400 Sure.

01:02:16.080 So, I mean, I think that if we take individual examples of anything, I think you're, you're

01:02:22.800 like desperate to hold onto this idea of anecdotal evidence and what you see in the world being

01:02:26.840 more important and more like quantifiable than anything that I present to you.

01:02:30.480 So I think it's a bit of a waste of time to go back and forth with you telling me that,

01:02:34.360 you know, a guy and me telling you that like based on hundreds of thousands of guys, this

01:02:38.480 is like overwhelmingly untrue.

01:02:40.020 So instead I'll just like list off some reasons why I think that historically women are probably

01:02:46.340 more oppressed.

01:02:47.180 Okay.

01:02:47.540 I would say, for example, if we talk about the U S until about 19, okay, hold on, 1974,

01:02:54.360 a woman could be denied a credit card or a loan without a male co-signer, a father or a husband.

01:03:00.180 And then we have this act that comes in in 1974 that makes it illegal to discriminate based on your

01:03:05.360 sex or your marital status.

01:03:07.280 So what that means is that a lot of living grandmothers, people who are alive today were adults when women

01:03:12.720 couldn't borrow their own money.

01:03:14.500 Is that oppression?

01:03:15.680 No, I don't think so.

01:03:19.360 Okay.

01:03:19.700 And why is that not oppression?

01:03:21.740 Because now we have women taking out credit cards and they don't pay it off.

01:03:26.420 Men take out credit cards and they don't pay it off.

01:03:28.260 Should we stop men from taking out credit cards?

01:03:31.180 80% of the world's debt is owned by women.

01:03:34.620 And 20% of the world's debt is owned by men.

01:03:37.200 Right.

01:03:37.620 But we were, I, I don't like the, like, could we start with the women?

01:03:42.340 So women are more likely to shoulder certain burdens within like the home anyway,

01:03:45.680 which probably increases the likelihood that they're going to be the ones burgeoning,

01:03:48.220 like shouldering the debt.

01:03:49.360 So for example, like until 1974, it's overwhelming the case that like men are signing off on this

01:03:53.760 stuff.

01:03:54.160 And then after that, it's overwhelming the case that women and mothers are signing off

01:03:57.180 on it because then there's like responsibilities.

01:03:59.540 So oftentimes in a partnership, both of them are carrying debt.

01:04:02.860 Both of them are carrying a similar amount of debt, but it's more often co-signed within

01:04:05.800 the woman's name.

01:04:06.480 So it looks like women have more debt.

01:04:08.980 Yeah.

01:04:09.420 Um, I would say if you look at the degrees that women are taking out, um, it's degrees

01:04:14.980 that don't make any money overwhelmingly.

01:04:18.440 Um,

01:04:18.940 So you're talking about like college degrees?

01:04:21.980 Yes.

01:04:22.820 Partially.

01:04:23.600 Yes.

01:04:24.880 Master's degrees.

01:04:25.720 It never ends.

01:04:28.260 Okay.

01:04:29.120 Yeah.

01:04:29.300 So you think that it's not oppression to tell women what kind of college degree they should

01:04:34.420 do and what, and the extent to which they should be taking out credit cards?

01:04:38.380 Well, the, well, the challenge should be mandating that for women.

01:04:41.660 I don't, I don't, I don't really care what women spend as long as they pay it back.

01:04:46.400 But the problem is now women aren't paying it back.

01:04:50.620 Like what women spend half a million.

01:04:52.560 How debt works, right?

01:04:53.440 Like if you have debt, you're probably like struggling to pay it back.

01:04:57.460 No, because men actually do pay back their debt.

01:05:00.640 Like if you look at men versus women and student debt, men are actually making payments on their

01:05:05.320 debt where women are defaulting.

01:05:07.080 So again, the, the challenge is women will make a decision and a man always has to bail them

01:05:12.880 out of it.

01:05:14.060 And that's.

01:05:14.700 So do you think that this, so even if this is true, even if I grant you this, which I

01:05:18.060 wouldn't necessarily grant it to you, do you think that the solution for that is to

01:05:22.020 mandate or legally enforce some kind of thing where women have less freedoms in society

01:05:27.820 on account of what you believe is bad behavior?

01:05:31.340 Um, I would love to see education get unsubsidized in the United States.

01:05:36.580 Um, I don't know if that's a gendered thing, but women are the ones that mostly do it.

01:05:41.840 I, I personally, that, that would be something I would love to see in my lifetime.

01:05:46.980 I, I'm actually very, education is a valuable job.

01:05:50.360 I'm very excited.

01:05:51.560 Sorry.

01:05:51.820 My audio, it's like this, it's like the cord.

01:05:55.180 Sorry.

01:05:55.460 Could you say that one more time?

01:05:57.220 Do you think that teaching or educating is a valuable job?

01:06:00.980 Uh, maybe at one point, but nowadays people graduate high school.

01:06:04.420 They can't even read.

01:06:05.880 I'm from Chicago.

01:06:06.920 It's really bad here.

01:06:08.220 It's terrible here.

01:06:09.680 Okay.

01:06:10.220 Yeah.

01:06:10.380 Do you think that without teachers, we probably have a little bit of a difficult time?

01:06:13.960 No.

01:06:15.360 You think that we don't need teachers?

01:06:17.280 I don't think the teacher, because education is subsidized in the United States.

01:06:21.760 So it's very hard to fire bad teachers.

01:06:25.180 So I, I don't, I don't ask.

01:06:26.940 I don't think, do you think that teaching is some kind of, it's like a valuable job to

01:06:31.760 have inside.

01:06:32.180 So for example, if I taught your child to read, would you be like, Oh, that's a good thing.

01:06:36.360 Tilly taught my child to read.

01:06:37.340 Or would you be like, fuck Tilly for teaching my kid to read?

01:06:39.720 Yeah.

01:06:40.620 Well, I think that women became teachers and screwed up the whole system.

01:06:45.120 Women have like, what?

01:06:47.060 Teaching used to be majority men in the United States in like the 1800s.

01:06:50.940 It used to be men.

01:06:52.820 And over time, the education system just has gone downhill.

01:06:56.760 And now, now we literally like in downtown Chicago, there's people that can't read and

01:07:00.260 they graduate high school.

01:07:01.880 And teaching is like 80% women.

01:07:03.400 Because of the fact it's like incognitive policy are female teachers.

01:07:05.240 I would say it's mostly female teachers.

01:07:08.640 Yeah.

01:07:09.020 I would say that.

01:07:09.880 I can't.

01:07:10.240 Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

01:07:12.660 Not all, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:07:13.800 I have to, I have to say this to stay monetized.

01:07:15.980 Not all women, not all women, not all, not all, not all.

01:07:19.460 Go ahead.

01:07:19.800 Sorry.

01:07:20.240 I do have to say that.

01:07:21.600 I'm trying to stay monetized.

01:07:23.800 Go ahead.

01:07:24.780 That's how, that's how much of a protected class women are.

01:07:27.040 I can't even make real generalizations about them without being, without them like cutting my

01:07:32.240 pay.

01:07:32.720 That's how BS this is.

01:07:34.260 Go ahead.

01:07:35.240 Go ahead.

01:07:36.780 I think that you have a skewed understanding of what oppression means.

01:07:39.880 I think oppression means limiting people's choices to do things, even when you disagree

01:07:43.700 with those choices.

01:07:45.000 Yeah.

01:07:45.440 I don't mind if people make choices.

01:07:47.160 I don't, I don't care at all if women make choices.

01:07:48.800 But you do mind because you think women shouldn't be allowed to take out credit cards.

01:07:51.880 No, I think they should pay for their credit cards.

01:07:54.160 And if women actually had to pay back their debt, I don't think women.

01:07:57.480 So what happens in society when someone doesn't pay back their debt?

01:08:00.740 If they're a woman, do they get special treatment?

01:08:02.100 And here, sort of, there's whole industries like, right, there's a lot of bankruptcy lawyers

01:08:07.500 in Chicago that make money off of, it's actually quite BS.

01:08:10.660 When I started learning about the process, I was like, I should have did this.

01:08:13.840 But there's a lot of bankruptcy lawyers are only helping out the women.

01:08:19.540 If you talk to them, they'll tell you it's mostly women.

01:08:21.780 It's men too, but it's mostly women.

01:08:23.300 And who am I to argue with you if you've spoken to them?

01:08:26.280 Well, you're welcome to talk to the ones in London.

01:08:28.320 I don't mind.

01:08:28.940 It'll probably tell you the same thing.

01:08:30.240 This is how I, this is the thing, Hannah, like we can't solve this conflict.

01:08:33.880 If I say, well, I've spoken to loads of bankruptcy lawyers in London and they tell me the complete

01:08:37.560 opposite.

01:08:37.860 And then if you tell me, but I've spoken to loads of bankruptcy lawyers in Chicago, who

01:08:41.560 is, who's going to come out on top?

01:08:43.100 If both of us have an equal distribution of anecdotal evidence, who's coming out on top?

01:08:46.940 It's probably someone with the data as well.

01:08:48.920 Well, I have the data too.

01:08:50.260 Well, I don't, here's the thing.

01:08:52.020 I don't care about winning.

01:08:53.180 I'm just having a conversation.

01:08:55.120 So I'm telling you what I think.

01:08:56.560 You can tell me what you think.

01:08:58.180 So you'll concede to losing then?

01:09:00.060 I'll, I'll have a conversation with you.

01:09:02.120 I don't, winning, losing, I don't care.

01:09:04.220 Like it's, I, I, that's what I'm telling you.

01:09:07.500 If you don't care, then like you're making some kind of concession.

01:09:10.780 If you want to take it that way, I, it's not my problem.

01:09:14.160 How else do I take it?

01:09:15.820 I mean, you could look at the data too.

01:09:18.660 The majority of bankruptcies are filed by women.

01:09:21.480 That's not the argument that I'm making.

01:09:23.640 I'm not trying to argue with you about bankruptcy among women.

01:09:26.400 Okay.

01:09:27.440 Well, then you can, you can try to argue with you that telling women that they receive some

01:09:32.140 kind of special treatment and they, they get to not pay off their debts for the rest of

01:09:35.080 their lives is a silly thing to say.

01:09:36.580 Well, I don't think they don't.

01:09:38.160 Finally, I think that a lot of loan shots, a lot of like issues with credit and debt and

01:09:42.220 the women aren't receiving special treatment.

01:09:44.780 Well, finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, Trump has come in and starts

01:09:51.260 garnishing women's wages.

01:09:53.160 So that's been awesome.

01:09:55.000 So sometimes, sometimes there is some out of student loans.

01:09:58.400 So again, cause women are the ones defaulting majority on their student loans.

01:10:03.100 Um, so finally, Trump has come in and I can't remember the law you passed, but basically

01:10:08.160 they can take it out of your bank account now where before they would just default and

01:10:11.680 you couldn't take it out of their bank account.

01:10:13.280 Thank God.

01:10:14.920 Um, so do you think this should apply for like, what if men are doing humanities degrees as

01:10:18.680 well?

01:10:19.380 Yeah, I agree.

01:10:21.340 But so is it the issue is that you devalue a humanities degree as something that's not

01:10:25.720 necessarily worthwhile?

01:10:26.460 I don't know anything about a humanities degree, but it doesn't sound like it.

01:10:32.000 I don't know.

01:10:33.480 Do you know what the humanities means?

01:10:35.960 I don't know anything about that degree.

01:10:38.060 You're welcome to tell me.

01:10:39.220 But I, I would, what I would do if I was to analyze that is I would look at the, so the

01:10:44.760 humanities is like, so you have science, technology, engineering, maths, men are more likely to

01:10:51.180 do this.

01:10:51.860 And then you have humanity subjects.

01:10:53.620 So this is like, I study humanities subjects.

01:10:55.660 I study political science with international relations.

01:10:58.280 You have like economics, you have humanity.

01:11:00.520 Oh no, all of these.

01:11:01.980 Okay.

01:11:02.260 I know what you're talking about.

01:11:03.380 You have law is a humanity.

01:11:04.940 So women are more likely to do that.

01:11:06.600 And men are more likely to be doing STEM.

01:11:08.260 But this gap is kind of closing as you see more gender equality happening anyway.

01:11:11.900 Well, the challenge is.

01:11:13.220 So is your issue with the fact that women are doing bad degrees or is your issue with the

01:11:17.640 fact that like no one should be doing a humanities degree?

01:11:20.240 I don't care what degree you want to do.

01:11:22.840 Um, I'm looking at the subjects that that entails.

01:11:26.080 None of these seem to have a high ROI.

01:11:28.600 So if you don't make the money back and pay back the money, um, and then society has to

01:11:33.820 bail you out and they pass things like student loan forgiveness, which comes from our taxes.

01:11:38.820 That's when I have a problem.

01:11:40.640 It is the majority one gender that is doing that.

01:11:43.660 But if a man does it too, I have the same problem.

01:11:45.960 Uh, my, my issue is when you're not an issue that's really specific to the U S which has

01:11:50.940 in extremely inflated tuition fees.

01:11:53.360 So people probably feel that they have much more skin in the game when it comes to mandating

01:11:57.280 what they believe people's personal choices should be in the United Kingdom.

01:12:00.400 Can you guess what our tuition fees look like?

01:12:03.160 I went to school in the UK.

01:12:04.360 I think my, you know, you know, first hand, we have like, we are way cheaper than you

01:12:09.320 guys over in the U S and we're more likely that I got to be honest, you guys, a system

01:12:15.740 of like tuition fees dealing a bad hand, or do you think it's women making bad choices?

01:12:20.580 Because for example, if you have a woman in like China who goes to pursue a degree in

01:12:24.600 something, that's going to look very different to a woman in America pursuing the same degree.

01:12:27.900 So would you say that it's a national issue rather than a gender issue?

01:12:31.200 No, because I didn't really see a difference like the girls.

01:12:34.900 And this is what I mean with firsthand experience, right?

01:12:37.860 Uh, the women I went to school with, um, none of them are really working in their field.

01:12:43.140 Like maybe it's cause I'm an athlete, but half of them are trainers.

01:12:45.780 They didn't even get jobs in their field.

01:12:47.240 So like you went to school, made friends with a bunch of athletes and then got surprised

01:12:50.780 when you came to school.

01:12:51.780 Yeah.

01:12:52.780 Well, I played, I played, I played volleyball in England for three years.

01:12:54.240 And all your friends were like athletes as well.

01:12:58.280 Um, the people I knew were athletes, some were friends, some weren't, but yeah.

01:13:03.480 And then a lot of them ended up going on to become like trainers.

01:13:06.480 A lot of them.

01:13:07.480 Good percent.

01:13:08.480 Or like working and like serving.

01:13:09.480 Like a lot of them, a lot of those women, like all of these women becoming personal trainers.

01:13:14.240 Well, it wasn't just that.

01:13:15.240 It was like, it wasn't, it wasn't just that it was like serving jobs.

01:13:19.200 Like, like my, my point is they weren't working in the field.

01:13:22.000 Um, so like you made friends with people who are athletes and then those athletes went

01:13:27.600 on to become personal trainers.

01:13:28.880 And then you're deciding that that means women don't use their humanities degrees.

01:13:32.200 Well, it wouldn't just be that.

01:13:34.000 Um, it would be patterns that I've seen, not, not just there, but like, um, even in undergrad

01:13:40.000 in the, it would be the same thing, different countries, women getting degrees in one thing

01:13:43.480 and not working in that.

01:13:45.560 I mean, what percent of STEM do you think goes, or women, STEM, STEM?

01:13:49.880 Um, that's a good question, actually.

01:13:52.120 I think that we're seeing a little bit more of an even distribution these days of STEM subjects

01:13:56.440 between men and women because gender and gender equality measures have increased.

01:13:59.240 Not really.

01:14:00.240 It's 20, it's 22%.

01:14:03.400 And even when they get into the field, like for example, if the most female doctors quit

01:14:08.440 before they're 40, you can look it up.

01:14:11.240 Yeah.

01:14:11.560 Most doctors are quite rich by the time they're 40.

01:14:14.040 No, they're not.

01:14:15.320 That's actually just not true.

01:14:17.880 In America, they have some of the highest wages in the world.

01:14:20.360 No, they do have high wages, but they have to pay.

01:14:22.600 But I have, I have a friend who's doing it right now.

01:14:24.680 Um, like he's, it's going to take him.

01:14:26.840 Well, I have friends doing it.

01:14:28.120 Uh, okay.

01:14:28.600 Listen, women make up 34% of the STEM workforce.

01:14:32.120 It's not quite as dramatic.

01:14:33.320 Yeah, but in terms of certain degrees, like women account for, for more, for more than

01:14:39.240 half in, in, in some, in some context.

01:14:41.880 So I'm seeing here that it's like women account for quite a, is it quite, is this engineering?

01:14:47.960 Um, but yeah, so women are underrepresented in STEM degrees.

01:14:50.600 They're less likely to go for STEM degrees, but I don't think it's quite as dramatic as like 22%.

01:14:54.760 It looks more like 35 to 40%.

01:14:57.080 So it's like a 10, 10 to 15% difference.

01:15:00.120 Correct.

01:15:00.520 But the, the challenge is if you look at how long they stay in the field, most of them

01:15:04.600 quit before the 10 year mark.

01:15:07.000 And the thing that the doctors, um, they quit cause it's harder than they thought is my take.

01:15:12.440 You're probably going to say.

01:15:13.480 Is it that women 10 years into their career are suddenly realizing it's hard,

01:15:16.360 or is it that women 10 years into their career are more likely to have a child?

01:15:19.480 Well, if you have a kid, they have daycare now, so you can, you can get daycare.

01:15:24.040 Right.

01:15:24.360 It's not really.

01:15:24.920 Well, if they've got daycare, I don't, I don't really see a point.

01:15:28.680 And then, and then they could start again.

01:15:30.440 Would you agree that a lot of women end up quitting their job when they have a child?

01:15:34.040 And the thing is most, well, and the thing is most women aren't even having kids.

01:15:37.880 Like that's why they keep talking about the birth rate.

01:15:39.800 A lot of women are having kids.

01:15:41.160 What's the, the birth rate's less than two.

01:15:43.240 What are you talking about?

01:15:44.120 Well, I know loads of women who have kids.

01:15:45.960 So what are you going to, how are you going to argue with that?

01:15:48.120 I know loads of women and actually all have like 10 kids.

01:15:50.920 I used to live across the street from a couple who had 12 kids.

01:15:53.960 That's, that's crazy.

01:15:55.240 How old were they?

01:15:55.960 So take your birth rate statistic and shove it because like, I know more than you.

01:15:59.720 I know a guy who has 17 kids.

01:16:02.520 I'm asking you questions.

01:16:03.960 So if that's true, how old were the parents?

01:16:07.800 The parents were, so as, when I was younger, this I'm like, I'm actually going to go here.

01:16:12.120 You know what?

01:16:12.520 Like if you're actually using this metric, if you're actually being like in the state,

01:16:16.600 I'm going to go here, right?

01:16:17.640 Go ahead.

01:16:18.040 So I was at the time, this is eight years ago.

01:16:21.640 So I'm 20 years old.

01:16:22.440 I would have been 12.

01:16:23.720 Okay.

01:16:24.440 Um, when I knew this, this couple who had a bunch of kids, I think they even had,

01:16:28.280 they had a TV show.

01:16:29.560 Um, they owned a pie shop and their TV show was about how they just had so many kids

01:16:33.640 and they couldn't stop having kids.

01:16:35.000 And then this was entertaining people.

01:16:37.480 So this is eight years ago.

01:16:40.280 The couple would probably be, they were quite a young couple.

01:16:42.840 They started having kids pretty young.

01:16:44.280 So 40, 45.

01:16:46.440 Okay.

01:16:46.840 But my point, my point, my point is that actually backs up what I'm saying.

01:16:52.440 Cause this is when you were 12, right?

01:16:55.240 Yes.

01:16:55.480 Okay.

01:16:55.720 Different, different, like my, my, I'm from a family of 10 kids.

01:17:00.440 Okay.

01:17:00.840 So that would actually match up with what I've seen when I was a kid.

01:17:03.880 I knew a lot of people, five, six kids, but nowadays not really, maybe,

01:17:08.440 maybe all the girls.

01:17:09.320 Well, I met a guy last week and he had 12 kids.

01:17:11.240 So, well, that that's possible.

01:17:13.880 We're at, and that's the thing.

01:17:15.480 I could, how old is he, how old is he?

01:17:18.760 If you just throw an anecdote at me and then you give me some kind of ought from that.

01:17:22.680 Have you, do you know?

01:17:24.360 Okay.

01:17:24.760 Do you know what, okay.

01:17:25.880 Do you understand why I'm like,

01:17:28.440 Oh, that doesn't make sense.

01:17:30.040 Do you know what good faith is and bad faith?

01:17:33.880 Do you know what the difference is?

01:17:35.160 Yeah.

01:17:35.320 And I think that it's a bad faith argument to continue throwing anecdotes at me when I present

01:17:39.560 you this factual information.

01:17:40.040 No.

01:17:40.520 So.

01:17:40.600 And I'm taking the logic, like ad absurdium to demonstrate to you that this is an absurd

01:17:44.920 way to argue.

01:17:45.400 I've been, I've been polite to you.

01:17:47.160 Would you agree or disagree?

01:17:48.600 Like I've let you come on.

01:17:49.720 I think, I think I've been.

01:17:50.760 No, you totally have, you totally have.

01:17:53.640 Correct.

01:17:54.120 Correct.

01:17:54.360 But when good faith is, I, I'm not going to assume that you're lying.

01:18:02.040 Okay.

01:18:02.680 Sure.

01:18:03.400 And so if you tell me.

01:18:04.600 I don't necessarily lying either about anecdotes, but that doesn't mean.

01:18:07.960 And if you want to keep in saying, if you want to keep insinuating, I, it's totally fine.

01:18:12.680 You know, but I'm telling you what I've seen and I, you know, I'm not going to patronize you

01:18:18.040 when you tell me what you've seen.

01:18:19.800 So if you tell me that you've met this person, I'll just ask you questions.

01:18:22.680 What I'm going to say is it doesn't necessarily belong in a conversation where we're thinking

01:18:25.960 about actual broad sweeping generalizations about society.

01:18:31.160 And the example that I bring is when you told me a bunch of my friends didn't use their humanities

01:18:35.800 degrees.

01:18:36.280 I'm an athlete.

01:18:36.920 I had loads of athletes friends and then they became personal trainers.

01:18:39.560 Do you understand how that actually doesn't tie into anything about humanities degrees

01:18:43.480 whatsoever?

01:18:43.960 All it ties into is your friend group and who you were friends with.

01:18:46.120 Well, this is why anecdotes are more unreliable than studies.

01:18:48.840 Well, I did see a similar thing because I'm thinking like the girls that studied psychology,

01:18:53.800 there's a lot of them in my, on my team, both in the U S and here.

01:18:57.880 And they just didn't seem to work in the field.

01:19:00.280 If they did anything in writing, anything in, and you can say, that's not what you've seen.

01:19:04.600 You can tell me what you've seen at Oxford, but there's no need to like patronize me if

01:19:08.360 I'm being polite to you.

01:19:09.480 You know what I mean?

01:19:10.920 I'm not being patronizing at all.

01:19:12.040 I'm just saying it's a silly metric, right?

01:19:13.960 Like I'm not patronizing you as a person.

01:19:16.040 I'm sure that you have experienced those things.

01:19:17.880 I'm sure your anecdotes are totally, we could go back and forth.

01:19:21.160 What you do going forward is up to you.

01:19:23.160 I'm just letting you know.

01:19:24.760 Okay.

01:19:25.240 So how do you think, so you think the credit cards were oppressive?

01:19:29.560 What else did you think were oppressive?

01:19:31.080 No, no, I think that banning women from having credit cards was oppressive.

01:19:36.760 Okay.

01:19:37.160 That's totally fine.

01:19:38.920 Was there anything else that you think women were oppressed?

01:19:42.920 Yeah.

01:19:43.240 I think that women have historically been the victims of violent crime, domestic abuse,

01:19:49.880 violent crime from men towards women and domestic abuse and rape and femicide.

01:19:54.840 Say great.

01:19:55.880 If you don't, I'm sorry, if you don't, I do have to, I'm going to let you go, but say

01:20:00.840 great just for YouTube.

01:20:02.680 I try to say, yeah, yeah.

01:20:03.720 I didn't tell you that that's my fault, but just say great.

01:20:06.360 Okay.

01:20:06.840 That is okay.

01:20:07.640 So, so yeah, women are the primary victims of great and that includes, for example, warfare.

01:20:13.400 So for example, great victims have higher rates of PTSD than veterans.

01:20:18.120 And also oftentimes we can take various examples of wars where men have gone and fought in wars,

01:20:24.360 but for every man that has fought in a war, upwards of three to four women have been great.

01:20:30.920 Okay.

01:20:31.400 Three to four women.

01:20:32.680 And where do you find this three to four women have been graped?

01:20:35.720 I'm not saying you're wrong.

01:20:36.680 I'm just wondering where it came.

01:20:37.720 No, no, no.

01:20:38.520 So you have examples like the Republic of the Congo from like 1998.

01:20:42.680 So this is the great capital of the world.

01:20:45.400 Okay, cool.

01:20:46.680 And there are also a lot of active combatants in the Congo.

01:20:50.040 And if you look at these figures, what you'll see is that about three to four women are graped

01:20:54.440 per man involved in that war in the Congo.

01:20:57.080 Could you do me a favor?

01:20:58.520 But I have more.

01:20:59.240 And if possible, can we stick to the West?

01:21:04.280 And the reason is because when you start bringing in Africa and these other countries,

01:21:08.360 it's just out of my scope.

01:21:10.120 I don't want to like argue about something I don't know.

01:21:12.440 You know, you're welcome to like bring that back.

01:21:16.440 But I would primarily love to just stay in the West.

01:21:19.560 Is that possible?

01:21:21.160 Okay.

01:21:21.560 Can we do Soviet invasion of Germany then?

01:21:23.400 Um, we can, but I'd really just prefer to keep UK America.

01:21:31.720 So just the fine, fine.

01:21:33.320 That's fine.

01:21:33.720 The West.

01:21:34.120 I did say the West.

01:21:34.920 That's fine.

01:21:35.320 You just say the West.

01:21:36.360 I did.

01:21:37.320 I did.

01:21:37.800 Fine.

01:21:38.120 Go ahead.

01:21:39.480 Sure.

01:21:39.720 Like, so, so in like 1944 and 45, you have one to 2 million German women are graped.

01:21:47.800 And the Soviet soldiers in Europe at the time is like 4 million.

01:21:51.080 So this is a case where like you have about 0.5 women graped per soldier.

01:21:55.400 But this is also like something where it's super concentrated among certain divisions.

01:21:58.760 And it's also like disproportionately affecting a bunch of civilian women.

01:22:01.400 So you have soldiers versus civilian women.

01:22:04.520 And like, even if we conservatively generalize from a bunch of case studies,

01:22:07.960 I know you said stick to the West, but if we conservatively generalize like globally,

01:22:11.640 and also if we generalize from wars that happen within the West,

01:22:14.120 even though a lot of wars that happen are proxy wars outside of the West,

01:22:17.000 where Western soldiers then are out like diffuse across Europe and outside of it

01:22:21.000 so that they can like impose whatever agenda.

01:22:22.680 And what is your definition of grape?

01:22:26.200 Does that include like,

01:22:27.480 is that like knife to your head or sorry, knife to, you know, grape?

01:22:34.120 Or is this like drunken regret grape?

01:22:36.520 Like what, what is the, I, you might have.

01:22:39.240 If someone has, if someone has sex and then drunkenly regrets having it,

01:22:42.680 then no, obviously they weren't grapes.

01:22:43.960 Okay, cool.

01:22:45.080 They have a regret.

01:22:45.960 All right, fine, fine.

01:22:46.920 Okay.

01:22:47.880 So my opinion is that men built civilization.

01:22:52.840 Historically, men worked laborious jobs seven to six, six to seven days a week and went off

01:22:58.680 and died in wars.

01:23:00.200 Women stayed inside.

01:23:01.400 They were teachers.

01:23:02.360 They were secretaries.

01:23:03.400 They raised a kid.

01:23:04.200 They were, they were cleaners.

01:23:06.280 Um, I do think.

01:23:07.320 Great cleaners.

01:23:11.560 I, um, I do think it's, I'm not pro great.

01:23:14.440 You know, that's unfortunate.

01:23:15.720 That did happen in wars.

01:23:17.480 But I would say historically men did have it harder and women were a protected class,

01:23:21.720 especially in America.

01:23:23.400 If women were such a protected class, then why were so many women

01:23:26.600 grapes as a weapon of war?

01:23:27.800 And why is it that grape victims who are overwhelmingly women have higher rates of PTSD than veterans?

01:23:33.000 Well, uh, PTSD, I would say suicide is a better, you know, cause you can kind of,

01:23:40.760 you know, take a survey and do whatever.

01:23:43.400 But if you look at suicide rates of veterans, I mean, more, um, veterans in America have committed

01:23:48.680 suicide than all of the world wars combined.

01:23:51.000 It's really not good.

01:23:52.120 That's because more men are successful at committing suicide.

01:23:54.600 I know that sounds like a crude way of saying it.

01:23:56.600 Um, but about the same amount as men, uh, of, of women attempt suicide.

01:24:02.280 Um, but it's just that men are more likely to be successful at it because they use more violent

01:24:05.640 methods.

01:24:06.360 Like they're more likely to, I understand that women also attempt, but I got to look at who's,

01:24:11.400 who, who's dying here.

01:24:12.680 And, and, and this is kind of my issue.

01:24:14.760 Why does that matter?

01:24:15.720 Well, this is, this is kind of my issue with feminists is I never understand why you guys,

01:24:21.080 when you talk about a men's issue, like, that's a terrible thing.

01:24:25.000 Right.

01:24:25.160 But we always have to make it about women.

01:24:27.320 Like, I never understood why we can't say, Hey, you know, you know, cause I have relatives

01:24:31.400 that served.

01:24:32.200 Right.

01:24:33.240 And these are guys that like, you know, they went overseas for 20, 30 years.

01:24:38.280 Um, and the stuff they come back, like they, they came back with is pretty rough.

01:24:42.280 So I just never understood why we try to minimize men's issues.

01:24:45.080 And you kind of do, you kind of do that.

01:24:46.360 I would absolutely never minimize a veteran going through terrible things.

01:24:48.760 I also have relative to a veterans and I think that it is a men's issue.

01:24:52.600 And I'm totally like someone who advocates against all unnecessary wars and for justice for

01:24:57.720 men.

01:24:58.120 And I think as much as, as humanly possible, we should be avoiding conscription and the draft

01:25:02.040 for everybody.

01:25:02.920 I'm definitely not someone who would minimize it.

01:25:04.520 Well, what are we going to do?

01:25:05.240 The facts on the ground are that grape has a higher rate of PTSD.

01:25:07.960 That's not saying that PTSD among veterans is like minimal.

01:25:11.080 And I'm like, not that.

01:25:12.200 Okay.

01:25:13.720 Right.

01:25:13.960 But why, like, why even bring that up then?

01:25:16.360 You know what I mean?

01:25:17.000 It's like, why?

01:25:17.640 I'm demonstrating because you asked me a question about how women have been historically

01:25:21.560 more oppressed than men.

01:25:22.760 And I've given you one.

01:25:23.800 And then you've told me that I'm actually just doing a minimization.

01:25:26.120 Yeah.

01:25:26.520 Well, cause you guys kind of do.

01:25:28.680 And that's why I keep trying to say, when we talk about women and talk about men,

01:25:31.880 let's try to keep it separate if we can, because I've just noticed whenever I bring up like a

01:25:36.200 men's issue, like if I say, you know, men don't have access to their kids, it's always,

01:25:40.040 well, women don't have access to their kids.

01:25:42.200 Or if I say, Hey, men are victims of suicide from war.

01:25:45.000 It's like, well, women have PTSD too.

01:25:47.000 It's like, I think it's because you're using those facts to make prescriptive claims about

01:25:50.600 what women should do in response.

01:25:52.120 Like I would totally go to a conference or whatever it is and like hear men's stories and listen to them

01:25:56.600 speak about the horrible things that they've been through and empathize with them on the fact that

01:26:00.040 they've experienced this oppression in society.

01:26:01.880 I'm not going to go and show up to a conference where men, when men like make these claims.

01:26:06.120 And then from that, what follows is, and also like women's claims.

01:26:09.240 Well, you realize like veterans are a good percentage of my audience.

01:26:16.520 So, you know, it's like, they listen to this, you know, this, this pretty blonde girl.

01:26:20.440 Right.

01:26:20.680 And she's like, yeah, well, women have suicide too.

01:26:23.160 You know, it's, it can be.

01:26:25.000 No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

01:26:26.360 Yeah.

01:26:26.600 I'm saying that if you've been graped, that is also like likely to happen during a war.

01:26:30.920 Yeah.

01:26:31.480 Okay.

01:26:31.880 So these are, these are things that veterans might also share.

01:26:34.920 So for example, like if you're a veteran and a woman, like you, you've probably experienced

01:26:39.480 some kind of SA or grape in your life.

01:26:42.280 Um, so there is that, but also it's like, I, I don't understand how a veteran could conclude

01:26:47.960 that I'm minimizing their struggles by saying that grape victims have extremely high rates of PTSD.

01:26:52.120 Yeah.

01:26:52.600 Well, I mean, this is kind of why men don't open up to women because, because they'll say,

01:26:56.440 I don't know how you could feel that way.

01:26:58.280 Sorry.

01:26:59.560 I think you're, I think you're, I think you're, I think you're, I think you're well-meaning.

01:27:03.160 I think you're all meaning.

01:27:04.280 I think you're well-meaning, but I'm just telling you how it comes across.

01:27:07.560 Um, okay.

01:27:08.920 So what else was I gonna, okay.

01:27:11.800 So you think the grape, I'll, I'll give you the grape.

01:27:13.960 You think women, the majority of women have been graped today.

01:27:17.720 Do you really think that?

01:27:18.600 No.

01:27:19.800 Oh, okay.

01:27:20.680 I, I didn't know if you meant that today.

01:27:22.600 So you don't, you don't think that.

01:27:23.720 But the majority of women have experienced some capacity of sexual harassment.

01:27:27.320 Like if you look at this objectively.

01:27:31.560 Don't they include catcalling in that?

01:27:33.400 Is catcalling sexual harassment?

01:27:35.800 I don't know.

01:27:36.920 You tell me, you, you, you would know more than me.

01:27:39.400 I don't know.

01:27:39.880 Why would I know more than you, Hannah?

01:27:42.200 Because you brought up sexual harassment.

01:27:44.840 I thought, I thought you would know, no?

01:27:46.520 No.

01:27:47.560 So do you think that catcalling is sexual harassment?

01:27:50.680 I don't, I don't, but I don't know what the definition is.

01:27:53.560 So I would, I personally.

01:27:55.560 So if you don't know what sexual harassment is, how can you say that something isn't sexual harassment?

01:28:01.800 Um, because I don't know what the official-

01:28:03.720 You can't define it.

01:28:04.360 How are we, how are we doing this?

01:28:05.720 Well, I don't, I can't quote, you know, what's the definition of anything?

01:28:09.240 I can't quote you the definition of like light or microphone off the top of my head.

01:28:15.080 So I don't know what the dictionary definition is.

01:28:17.560 I'm, I'm just saying personally, it wouldn't offend me.

01:28:20.440 I'd just say, no, thank you.

01:28:21.640 Well, I'll give you the definition of sexual harassment.

01:28:23.640 It's harassing someone sexually and catcalling falls under harassing someone sexually because

01:28:28.360 it's going up to someone and harassing them in a sexual context.

01:28:31.960 Oh my God, it's no wonder men don't approach anymore because who determines the difference

01:28:37.080 between like harassment and, and wanted attention?

01:28:42.760 You know what I mean?

01:28:44.760 Uh, no, not really.

01:28:45.960 Could you explain what you mean by that?

01:28:47.720 Well, men used to catcall because sometimes it worked, right?

01:28:50.600 Some women were into it.

01:28:52.040 Yeah.

01:28:52.360 I mean, sometimes I walk down the street and a man shouts, nice tits, come and get in my car.

01:28:56.040 And I'm like, you know what?

01:28:57.480 Like, I'm going to get, like, that's, he's got a point, right?

01:29:01.080 Like catcalling is not something that works.

01:29:02.920 Courting someone works.

01:29:03.880 Going on a date with someone works.

01:29:05.240 Telling someone that they're beautiful and you'd like to take them out works.

01:29:07.960 Shouting nice tits across the street isn't like a foolproof way to prove that you're

01:29:11.720 like marriageable to a woman.

01:29:13.400 Yeah.

01:29:13.640 But I mean, I have, um, you're going to, you're going to say, I know a guy, but I do know a guy

01:29:21.240 he approaches.

01:29:21.960 He doesn't say, he doesn't say it like that, but you know, he'll, he'll say you're beautiful,

01:29:25.720 you know, or, you know, like that.

01:29:27.400 But some women were like, even if he's trying to be respectful, they take it the wrong way,

01:29:32.440 you know?

01:29:32.760 And I, I know him.

01:29:33.720 He's not, you know, he's not trying to harass anybody, but you know, he wants to get a date.

01:29:38.280 So.

01:29:39.480 And I empathize with that.

01:29:40.520 I think that men should also be a little bit sensitive to the fact that they're much

01:29:43.400 physically stronger than women by a lot of different metrics.

01:29:46.280 And so men are more, and women are more likely to be intimidated when a man approaches them,

01:29:50.200 telling them that they think they're beautiful or they're very attractive.

01:29:53.000 And that potentially there should be a little bit of sensitivity around that.

01:29:56.200 Okay.

01:29:56.760 I think if it's done politely, I would take no issue with, with, with being approached

01:30:00.280 and just politely rejecting it and going on with my day and then totally fine.

01:30:04.280 Okay.

01:30:04.840 With that.

01:30:05.560 Cool.

01:30:05.640 There's a difference between sexual aggression and just being approached and asked out.

01:30:09.320 And I, I think there's no issue with that.

01:30:10.840 And I actually would, I would encourage more men, um, to, to approach women in public.

01:30:14.920 I would also, I would encourage the reverse.

01:30:16.280 Like I also, I think that things like dating apps can be a little bit harmful to, to the dating scene.

01:30:20.840 Right.

01:30:21.240 Okay.

01:30:22.360 Um, so I think that women are a protected class in society.

01:30:27.000 Um, and I want to know why don't feminists.

01:30:30.520 Fight for women to do 50% of the manual labor in society.

01:30:35.000 So like construction, um, plumbing, electrician, like, why is there only talks of women not being

01:30:43.560 CEOs, but there's never talks of women like, or women doing construction jobs, for example.

01:30:49.560 I think there's two things that you can say about this.

01:30:52.440 The first one is that construction is considered a less aspirational job.

01:30:56.120 So most people don't dream of being a construction worker, even men.

01:30:59.240 But the second thing is like doing hard jobs doesn't dictate your societal value.

01:31:03.960 And I think that even ultra traditionalist people recognize that like a lot of people

01:31:07.480 who are super conservative and traditional will say women bring just as much value through

01:31:10.920 childcare and nursing and typically female dominated industries.

01:31:13.560 And maybe even some feminists would, would agree with that on different grounds.

01:31:16.520 Like when it comes to social participation, society is about working as a team to achieve

01:31:20.200 things.

01:31:20.680 For example, like, would you say like, oh, we should encourage like men over 40 to go

01:31:24.520 and do construction or work in an oil, work at an oil rig.

01:31:28.200 Um, I think that if women want equality, that women should do 50% of the hard jobs before

01:31:35.400 they complain about not getting paid the same.

01:31:38.120 Um, men make 75% of the food supply, 80% of the world stuff.

01:31:43.320 Um, and there's an economist.

01:31:45.800 He categorized jobs stuff.

01:31:48.040 What is world's stuff?

01:31:50.840 So there's an economist and he, he categorized jobs into like job, like basically jobs that, um,

01:32:00.680 if the power went like jobs, that society could survive without and jobs society couldn't.

01:32:07.960 And it's like sick men do.

01:32:10.520 Hold on.

01:32:10.920 Actually, I have the book.

01:32:11.800 Do you care if I read it to you?

01:32:13.240 Do you care?

01:32:13.880 Is that all right?

01:32:14.760 Since we're doing?

01:32:15.560 No, I don't care.

01:32:16.760 Uh, cause he's so smart.

01:32:20.120 He came on my show.

01:32:22.200 Contribution to the GDP.

01:32:25.240 Let me see.

01:32:26.600 One second.

01:32:30.840 Should've did this before.

01:32:32.280 My bad, but it's just men do all the jobs where if the lights went out tomorrow,

01:32:41.400 society could not function is my point.

01:32:44.200 So it's like me, like, for example, I, I have this job, right.

01:32:48.440 But if I went away tomorrow, a lot of women would be happy.

01:32:51.960 Um, but, but like society would be fine.

01:32:55.800 Right.

01:32:56.200 I, I'm not, I'm not egotistical enough to think I'm that important, but you know,

01:33:00.680 I do interviews and I'll interview men that do construction for 30 years that do, um,

01:33:07.080 plumbing for 30 years.

01:33:08.360 They're firemen.

01:33:09.160 And these are men that we can't survive without, you know, like human resources.

01:33:14.360 Well, that's not true because we've witnessed loads of circumstances

01:33:17.240 when women have survived and adapted to circumstance.

01:33:21.320 Okay.

01:33:22.680 Are you talking about like the factory jobs?

01:33:25.080 Is that your point?

01:33:27.400 Um, like, and they always say like world war one or something.

01:33:31.080 During world war two, this has happened already

01:33:33.080 and society didn't crumble and collapse.

01:33:34.840 Well, that was factory jobs though.

01:33:36.840 So there were factories that men built.

01:33:38.440 They were also building farms and they were doing construction

01:33:41.000 and they were doing difficult jobs.

01:33:42.120 I don't, I don't, I don't, what percent, what percent of the workforce

01:33:47.080 was women during that time?

01:33:48.360 Was it the majority?

01:33:49.320 What I would say is that if men between the ages of 18 and 39.

01:33:53.000 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:33:54.680 During that time, was it the majority?

01:33:56.840 I need, I just need this answer from you.

01:33:58.840 Was it the majority?

01:34:01.000 I don't know if it was a majority, but what I am saying is,

01:34:03.560 you told me that if tons of men leave the harder jobs,

01:34:06.600 then society will collapse.

01:34:07.640 During world war two, tons of men, it's not the majority,

01:34:10.360 but loads of them between the ages of 18 and 39 went overseas to fighting wars and

01:34:14.440 society didn't collapse.

01:34:15.560 Even if you're going to tell me, oh, actually it was a small amount of women who entered

01:34:18.120 the workforce.

01:34:19.640 What they proved was that that's more of a woman's table and also that society didn't collapse.

01:34:23.800 No, but what percent of factory workers were women at the time?

01:34:26.600 What percent?

01:34:27.240 Do you see how, like, even if you give me some statistic,

01:34:29.640 that still doesn't matter?

01:34:30.600 So if I said, if I said,

01:34:31.800 if I said,

01:34:33.800 it was, if I said five percent, that wouldn't change.

01:34:37.480 You wouldn't think, okay, maybe they didn't, weren't as important as we thought.

01:34:40.600 Not really, because I've already explained to you why.

01:34:44.120 Okay.

01:34:44.680 Okay.

01:34:45.080 But the, it was only 25% of women doing those jobs.

01:34:48.280 So one in four people, that means that one in four, about one in four men had left

01:34:54.120 and gone to fight wars overseas.

01:34:56.120 If one in four men did that and society was fine, then does that not prove my point exactly?

01:35:05.080 Not at all.

01:35:06.280 Not at all.

01:35:07.480 Because they're still, because of the women.

01:35:09.720 A quarter of people in the workforce doing the difficult jobs, doing the construction,

01:35:13.800 being women and doing it well.

01:35:15.080 Such that, for example, England does really well in war when this happens.

01:35:17.960 Because if, okay, because if 25, the 25% went away, they would be fine.

01:35:24.520 But I think they wouldn't be fine.

01:35:26.600 If 25% of the workforce fucking died, then that would be awful.

01:35:31.320 That would not be fine.

01:35:32.280 Women want credit.

01:35:33.480 You're actually proving my point that women love taking credit for men's work.

01:35:38.840 I'm not taking credit for any man's work.

01:35:40.440 I wasn't there in World War II.

01:35:42.040 Yeah.

01:35:42.520 I just said men are dying in battle and running the factories.

01:35:46.200 And you said, but the women did 25% of the factory work.

01:35:49.800 You told me women did 25% of the factory work.

01:35:52.600 I mean, I agreed.

01:35:53.720 Men are, like, dying.

01:35:55.240 And you're like, well, the women survived without the men.

01:35:58.680 Because you told me that women can't survive without men.

01:36:00.440 And I told you, yeah, they did.

01:36:01.640 Women can't.

01:36:02.200 But I'm saying, like, if tomorrow men's jobs disappeared,

01:36:05.720 like, we would be screwed as women.

01:36:07.720 We could not operate the infrastructure.

01:36:08.680 Well, imagine if the only people we had left in society were guys who worked the oil rigs.

01:36:12.040 Oh, thank God.

01:36:12.760 It would be a little bit screwed as well if we didn't have teachers, educators, nurses,

01:36:15.960 midwives, and lawyers.

01:36:16.920 Oh, my God.

01:36:17.000 I can just, that would be amazing.

01:36:18.440 There would be no nagging.

01:36:19.960 Oh, my God.

01:36:20.440 I dream about a world like that.

01:36:21.960 Yeah, you'd have, like, an abundance of fucking oil.

01:36:24.200 Yeah, that sounds good.

01:36:25.240 That sounds good.

01:36:27.240 Oil prices have been mad.

01:36:29.080 Yeah, you have an abundance of oil, so your oil price goes down.

01:36:33.960 Okay, so you think misogyny?

01:36:35.720 Yeah, women are dying because you've got no more midwives.

01:36:38.280 Okay, do you mind if I take a break to read Super Chats?

01:36:41.240 Is that all right with you?

01:36:42.200 I don't mind at all.

01:36:43.000 I told them to be-

01:36:43.640 I'm actually super interested to see how this looks.

01:36:45.640 I told them to be very respectful.

01:36:48.760 They don't always listen, but if they pay me, I do read it,

01:36:51.560 so I just want you to know it is not personal.

01:36:53.640 I don't think they've said anything rude.

01:36:56.120 If they had, please don't get mad at me.

01:36:59.080 Okay.

01:36:59.400 I don't get mad at you.

01:37:00.680 I don't get mad at you.

01:37:01.880 All right, so we got listening to a female is like scratching your fingernails on a chalkboard.

01:37:07.800 Eric, men absolutely dream about working in construction.

01:37:11.480 I would know I'm a construction manager.

01:37:13.320 Most guys in the field love their jobs, especially difficult ones.

01:37:16.680 Eric, published in 2014 by a U.S. Census Bureau,

01:37:20.920 about 50% of women in STEM leave the workforce or the field in 12 years, usually before 35.

01:37:27.160 But Eric, women find it less gratifying to have a prestigious career than raise kids.

01:37:32.920 They only get high wage jobs to get in the proximity of wealthy men.

01:37:37.640 Silveria, Bill Foster defends from falling down.

01:37:41.640 Silveria, women are so nurturing they can't wait to get child support checks,

01:37:45.960 paying for a babysitter to go out to the clubs.

01:37:48.680 Women don't want to stay home for fear of missing out.

01:37:53.400 The attorney, Andrew, men are the men are married happier right up until

01:37:59.320 the bitch divorces them and takes their kids and their stuff.

01:38:02.840 Then they're unmarried and unhappy.

01:38:06.600 Sorry, that was funny.

01:38:08.440 Silveria, my wife, my wife ballooned during pregnancy from stress eating candies.

01:38:13.400 Now my girlfriend isn't getting big while pregnant.

01:38:15.720 Pregnancy, obesity is just excuses.

01:38:18.520 Silveria, I liked the idea of becoming Muslim, but a beacon won me over.

01:38:23.320 Oh wait, but bacon won me over having four wives.

01:38:26.920 I can slap around silly.

01:38:29.880 Let me know when they let me know when they allow bacon and beer.

01:38:35.000 Eric says, oh wait, I think I read that.

01:38:38.280 Let me refresh it real quick.

01:38:39.960 Do you think you're smarter than them?

01:38:43.160 Is that, was that the point of that comment?

01:38:45.880 No, I think that saying that he wants a wife to slap around isn't necessarily a

01:38:49.480 particularly intellectual thing to me.

01:38:50.760 Do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you think a wife ballooned in

01:38:52.840 pregnancy, right?

01:38:53.480 Do people at Oxford have humor?

01:38:55.800 Like you guys don't think things are funny?

01:38:57.560 I told you I found it really funny when that guy said that if,

01:39:00.440 when his wife leaves him and takes all of his shit, then he's going to be unhappy then.

01:39:03.800 I think that's hilarious.

01:39:04.680 I thought the woman slapping was funny too.

01:39:06.840 I don't think that one's funny.

01:39:09.560 I mean, not because I'm offended, but because I like, don't find it funny.

01:39:12.840 Right?

01:39:13.400 Yeah.

01:39:13.640 But it's, you know, like I just didn't get.

01:39:16.520 And I'm at Cambridge.

01:39:17.560 I'm a Cambridge pearl.

01:39:19.080 Yeah.

01:39:19.640 I don't get it.

01:39:20.280 Not Oxford.

01:39:21.480 I'm so sorry.

01:39:22.440 I don't know why I know you from the Oxford clip.

01:39:24.920 So in my head, you go to Oxford.

01:39:27.080 No, I was in Cambridge at that time.

01:39:28.600 I don't know why people kind of took the Oxford thing and they ran.

01:39:31.160 Oh really?

01:39:32.200 Okay.

01:39:32.920 So we'll do one more topic.

01:39:34.280 Cause I do have to end at nine.

01:39:35.880 Um, all right, but I would love to have you on again.

01:39:39.240 Um, okay.

01:39:40.840 So misogyny is the foundation of the modern gender conflict.

01:39:45.240 Can you tell me, I think you sent me that one.

01:39:47.320 Um, maybe you can tell me what you mean by that.

01:39:51.720 Um, that's an interesting one that you've picked.

01:39:54.600 I wasn't expecting you to necessarily pick this topic.

01:39:56.280 I can pick a different one.

01:39:57.400 I thought, I thought you sent that to me, but if you have one, you can pick the last topic.

01:40:01.880 Cause I think I've picked.

01:40:02.840 You know what?

01:40:03.720 That's fair.

01:40:04.200 Cause cause you pick, you pick the other topics.

01:40:05.560 Yeah, that's totally fine.

01:40:06.200 I'm going to pick the topic that your audience will hate the most.

01:40:08.280 Um, which is, which one will they hate?

01:40:11.080 Which one will, will garner the most, um, the most hatred?

01:40:15.160 What would you say?

01:40:16.040 Maybe feminism reduces sex work.

01:40:20.360 Okay.

01:40:21.160 Um, I'll tell you what I think.

01:40:22.840 Um, do you, from your worldview, do you include marriage as sex work?

01:40:28.680 I know some feminists, that's how they view it.

01:40:30.920 So is, is that how you view it?

01:40:34.520 No, unless it's forced marriage.

01:40:36.200 Okay.

01:40:36.760 Totally fine.

01:40:37.320 So that doesn't, I, my initial gut reaction is that is not true based on the number of women

01:40:44.200 on only fans, but I'm totally, you can change my mind.

01:40:48.360 I'm going to read a super chat just cause it was a big one.

01:40:51.480 It's a little bit invasive.

01:40:52.760 You don't have to answer it.

01:40:54.280 Hey Pearl, what does she bring to the table and what is her body count?

01:40:57.480 Do you want to answer that?

01:40:59.800 Oh, no, I don't answer personal questions.

01:41:02.440 I agree, but it's 50, but I'm going to read it.

01:41:04.440 Sorry.

01:41:04.760 Go ahead.

01:41:05.880 No problem.

01:41:06.520 50.

01:41:07.640 Okay.

01:41:07.880 So what I would say is tough times.

01:41:11.960 Go ahead.

01:41:12.520 Go ahead.

01:41:12.840 Go ahead.

01:41:14.040 What I would say is that there are loads of avenues through which women leave sex work.

01:41:19.400 Okay.

01:41:19.960 And all of these avenues are advocated by feminists.

01:41:22.760 So if you want to reduce sex work, then you should have more liberal values in society.

01:41:26.360 And I'll explain what I mean by that.

01:41:27.640 We have this huge study that I know you hate them, but we have this huge study in 2020 that

01:41:33.160 basically dictated that an increased access to female formal employment is the strongest statistical

01:41:38.040 factor in reducing entry into sex work.

01:41:39.960 So firstly, we should qualify that women on OF and women who choose sex work are a tiny minority

01:41:45.000 of individuals, even within the West.

01:41:46.760 In multiple countries across, I think 15 plus countries, between 65% at a very conservative

01:41:53.000 estimate and 90% of women said that they would leave sex work if they had a stable income,

01:41:57.720 if they had affordable housing, if they had education and job training.

01:42:02.200 So what I'm saying is if you want to reduce sex work, then you should encourage more women to be in

01:42:07.560 the workforce, more women to get an education.

01:42:09.800 I should encourage more women to view their power as something that lies outside of sexual

01:42:15.160 appeal to men.

01:42:15.880 And that's something that feminists advocate for all the time.

01:42:19.800 1.4 million women in the United States are active content creators on OnlyFans.

01:42:25.480 1.4 million women in the United States are active content creators on OnlyFans.

01:42:27.320 And most of those women are under...

01:42:28.280 What is that as a percentage of the US population?

01:42:30.360 No, but if you include women under 35...

01:42:32.600 So let's be honest, it's not like...

01:42:33.960 No, who wants to see old ladies?

01:42:35.480 Something like 5%.

01:42:36.600 Something like 5%.

01:42:37.720 Do you know what?

01:42:38.920 I did the math once on my show and I can't remember off the top of my head.

01:42:42.680 Yeah, I know you said it was 10%, but you got it wrong because then I did it and it was about half of that.

01:42:46.520 All right, 5%, that's still a lot I would say to be doing that that young.

01:42:51.160 I mean, it depends how you qualify this.

01:42:57.000 Okay.

01:42:57.400 Like a lot compared to what?

01:42:58.600 Okay.

01:42:59.640 I don't know.

01:43:00.040 I just think that's a lot.

01:43:01.160 5% of women under, I think it was under 25.

01:43:04.920 Should we double check this?

01:43:06.760 You're totally welcome to.

01:43:08.120 When I said it on the show, I don't know if you watched, there was a clip that went viral,

01:43:12.200 but it's unfortunate.

01:43:13.240 They cut before where I was like, look guys, these are the numbers I'm looking at.

01:43:16.440 I'm not sure.

01:43:17.240 This is what I'm seeing.

01:43:18.680 I think they cut that though.

01:43:19.880 They take clips from it.

01:43:24.280 Oh, since I'm in the UK, all I'm seeing is the UK figures.

01:43:27.000 That's totally fine.

01:43:28.040 Which is that it's 4%.

01:43:30.840 Women between ages 18 and 34.

01:43:32.840 Yeah, but I would, I would argue it's a little bit higher.

01:43:36.120 And the reason is because there are women like, do you remember a couple of years?

01:43:39.640 You might be too young.

01:43:40.920 Like 10 years ago, all these influencers got found out to be like for sale

01:43:45.960 or like they're getting pooped on in Dubai.

01:43:47.560 If you remember that now, I'm not, I'm not saying that that's the majority, but I think we could

01:43:52.760 like, we could guess that there's some under the table stuff where women have sex for rent.

01:43:57.960 I had a PI on my show and that's like one of that's one of the sex work that he's found is pretty common.

01:44:03.160 Um, so I would guess like, can we, could we meet at like six, seven percent?

01:44:08.760 I mean, we can be at whatever figure, right?

01:44:11.400 Yeah, totally.

01:44:11.720 I think that what's important to acknowledge is that it's very difficult to measure sex work

01:44:15.320 because it's illegal in a lot of places.

01:44:17.080 It's highly stigmatized in a lot of places.

01:44:18.440 So people are more likely to keep it a secret, especially in societies that are honor-based,

01:44:21.880 like India.

01:44:22.760 So in India and China, for example, you don't see that particularly high amount of sex work,

01:44:27.320 but there is a lot of sex work and a lot of sex trafficking that occurs.

01:44:29.880 Yeah, but we're not honor-based in the US, come on.

01:44:33.080 No, we're not, which is why you see ostensibly more like an increase in sex work, but actually

01:44:38.440 I would argue that it's probably more likely that you see sex workers in places like India,

01:44:42.040 where there's a higher rate of poverty, higher rate of honor-based killings and limited opportunities

01:44:45.560 for women.

01:44:46.040 I would argue that women don't do OnlyFans for money because the average OnlyFans creator

01:44:53.960 makes like 150 bucks a month.

01:44:57.560 Okay.

01:44:58.120 So to me, I think they do it because they like it.

01:45:00.920 So how can you map that conceptually onto my claim that feminism reduces sex work?

01:45:05.000 And because I think the women that want to be sex workers just like doing that.

01:45:10.360 An example is-

01:45:11.160 I think that OnlyFans creators are a minority of sex workers.

01:45:13.960 Most sex workers don't want to be sex workers, and most sex workers-

01:45:16.760 You think there's more prostitutes than OnlyFans workers?

01:45:20.920 Really?

01:45:21.640 Factually, yes.

01:45:22.920 Yes, this is a total fact.

01:45:24.760 Okay.

01:45:25.800 OnlyFans models are a minority of sex workers globally and even in the West.

01:45:29.960 How many prostitutes are there in the United States?

01:45:31.960 I mean, who really cares?

01:45:34.040 I don't think so.

01:45:34.840 I mean, obviously it's going to give you a low figure because it's illegal to be a prostitute

01:45:37.720 in many places across the United States where it's illegal to be an OnlyFans creator.

01:45:40.520 Okay.

01:45:40.920 What I would say-

01:45:41.560 So that's just your guess then?

01:45:43.480 No, it's not my guess.

01:45:45.080 Okay.

01:45:45.160 It's like informed.

01:45:46.040 It's an informed thesis.

01:45:48.040 Like based on what if they're going to hide it?

01:45:50.440 Do you know what I mean?

01:45:51.320 Based on the fact that sex work in one capacity is highly stigmatized and illegal.

01:45:55.800 And if you're doing something illegal, you're probably not going to advertise to the internet

01:45:59.240 or do some kind of study.

01:46:00.680 Involve yourself in that so that you then incriminate yourself.

01:46:03.640 Okay.

01:46:04.520 It says estimates from one to two million.

01:46:07.320 Okay.

01:46:07.960 So then my 10% stat was about right if we included the hookers.

01:46:11.640 I think that's maybe what I included at the time.

01:46:14.600 Well, anyways, I don't really care about sex work.

01:46:18.120 I think they go ahead, sell your butthole for $5.99.

01:46:22.360 I really don't care.

01:46:24.680 Do you think that sex work gives women some kind of power in society?

01:46:28.760 Yeah.

01:46:29.160 I mean, it allows them to make money for no work pretty much.

01:46:32.280 I mean, you just have to throw it back.

01:46:34.440 That's not hard.

01:46:35.080 Okay.

01:46:35.800 You just told me they're not making any money.

01:46:38.440 Well, the ones that do make money make good money.

01:46:41.080 Well, it depends.

01:46:41.960 There's a small cohort of sex workers who are powerful in society

01:46:45.400 and it's because of the fact that they're female sex workers.

01:46:48.120 Well, they'll usually do some outrageous content like Bonnie Blue.

01:46:51.960 She's doing pretty well.

01:46:53.480 I met Lily Phillips actually when I was in.

01:46:55.560 Have you, have you run into her out there?

01:46:58.840 No, I haven't.

01:46:59.320 I think that red pill rhetoric often treats sexual appeal as like real power,

01:47:04.040 but I don't think this is intuitively true because if sexual power is real power,

01:47:07.240 then men are going to have their dicks out on the cover of GQ magazine all the time.

01:47:10.680 Well, they don't because they know that sexual power is just one type of power.

01:47:13.480 It's the most volatile and conditional kind of power.

01:47:16.920 Yeah, I do think that beautiful women get very cool opportunities, I would say.

01:47:25.960 Sure, but it's reliant on a power that depends entirely on being physically

01:47:28.680 desired by another group.

01:47:29.720 Hence, there are no safety nets.

01:47:30.920 It can be withdrawn at any time and it functions only within the confines of male approval.

01:47:35.400 Like it's more difficult for you to take a law degree from someone

01:47:37.720 than it is to revoke your sexual attention, right?

01:47:39.640 Well, I mean, if they want to get rid of the sexual attention, just get fat takes like six months.

01:47:46.120 Sure, exactly. That's what I'm saying, right? The way that you remove your,

01:47:50.840 if you have all this like perceived power in society, the only, like the ways you can remove

01:47:54.760 it is by like just getting, becoming overweight, saying something that men don't like, or men

01:47:59.480 collectively decide they're going to revoke your sexual attention.

01:48:00.760 You could say anything. They'll still hit if you're pretty enough. They do not care.

01:48:06.040 They don't care at all.

01:48:06.920 Sorry.

01:48:07.240 Do I think, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say that feminism, I would say

01:48:13.960 feminism, I would say in the, I would say in the past, I would say if we're going to go from like

01:48:20.360 the twenties to now, I would say there's probably more sex workers now. So I would say feminism

01:48:26.840 increased sex work because it, it gave women technology, the ability to divorce and leave

01:48:32.200 their husbands and technology that allows them to do sex work from the comfort of their own home.

01:48:37.720 Men are so nice. They literally built us like phones. So you can be a whore at home.

01:48:42.280 Well, I mean, the first computer programmer was a woman, but I think like to kind of pivot from

01:48:48.920 this and go back to the original claim that I'm making, I think that this type of behavior has

01:48:52.920 existed for thousands of years, especially among women who have narrowly defined choices. Now,

01:48:57.000 sure. You're right. We film it online and the women are beholden to an agency behind the scenes.

01:49:00.840 But this is the thing that's always existed. And so you can't claim that the rise has come from

01:49:04.040 feminism because previously it looks like entire industries dedicated to dividing women based on the

01:49:09.320 fact of whether they were concubines or royalty or peasants. For example, you have like courtesans

01:49:13.960 in Imperial China who entertained scholars and emperors in flower houses. You have Renaissance

01:49:18.920 Venice, you have courtesans' fame there relying on their sexual availability. You have France's

01:49:22.680 Ancien Régime with like Madame de Pompadour, like a super famous example of like a Lily Phillips

01:49:29.000 of the Ancien Régime who wielded this political influence through sex. So I think it makes no sense

01:49:33.720 to make the argument that these people are a product of feminism when it's an architect

01:49:37.080 60,000 of years, more often happening thousands of years ago, like at a higher frequency.

01:49:40.840 I don't really care, to be honest. Like, I think there's always been sex workers,

01:49:45.400 if there's more or less now. It's definitely more out in the open now. And I'd say feminism

01:49:50.120 made that more like them able to function in society. Well, you just said it was phones.

01:49:54.360 So is it feminism or is it phones? Well, I'd say both. But the, you know, it's interesting,

01:49:59.320 you said the first female programmer was a woman. Women care about titles. Men care about

01:50:07.480 accomplishments. So it's kind of interesting because whenever it's always like, that's not

01:50:10.840 true. It's yeah. Well, then you would have said when women were allowed to receive Nobel Peace

01:50:14.920 Prizes or when women were allowed to receive certain awards and like filmmaking and stuff,

01:50:18.280 we've had to carve out like by forcefully fighting for it. You know, it's so funny to even be granted an

01:50:23.720 award. You know, it's so funny. Do you know, it's so funny. You just brought up awards too. Like men

01:50:28.200 don't care about awards. Women do. So it's kind of funny. Men don't care about awards. Can we be

01:50:32.120 real? It's so funny. You brought that up. Men don't care about achieving things in society and

01:50:35.640 being given credit for it. I thought you spend all day complaining online about the fact that

01:50:39.720 men are never given enough credit for their achievements. Well, yeah, but that,

01:50:43.080 notice how it's me complaining a woman. It's like on brand. Oh, okay. And your audience of men

01:50:49.400 don't care about this. Do you know what's interesting though? Like the first female

01:50:53.320 programmer you're talking about, she never built a computer. She just wrote about the concept.

01:50:58.200 A computer programmer means you write the code. That's who you're talking about, right?

01:51:10.600 Ada Lovelace. Yeah. She never built a computer. She just wrote about the concept.

01:51:15.560 Yeah. It's like much harder to invent code than it is to build a computer. I doubt it. Women always

01:51:20.760 want credit. Okay. You just have it, right? Like it's not necessarily something that we're begging

01:51:27.800 for. Like if the credit's there, then like, it's just there. Well, then why do you have to beg for

01:51:33.160 it? Like that's, that's always, that's what like feminism is. It's you guys like saying, give us more

01:51:39.960 credit. But if you were that good, we would just see it. You wouldn't have to beg for it.

01:51:43.480 I don't know if that's true. It is true. How do you, how do you, how do you evidence that?

01:51:50.440 Um, I know pretty productive men, not so much women. Okay. So we're back to the start. Your

01:51:58.040 evidence is I know a guy. Well, I could give a public example. Like, um, for example, Donald Trump,

01:52:04.360 I'm going to use right leaning ones. Cause I like them. Obviously. Um, he's just productive. He doesn't

01:52:09.560 have to go around saying he's productive. He just is. Elon Musk, same way. Donald Trump doesn't have

01:52:14.440 to go around saying he's productive. Donald Trump says he's the most productive man in the history

01:52:18.840 of, of, of America. Donald Trump's favorite president is himself. Donald Trump is practicing

01:52:23.320 he's the least racist man and the best man and the best president. His entire press conference is

01:52:28.600 like a searcher. I don't know what you're talking about. I think women debating is just endless nagging.

01:52:33.000 Sorry. I think you mean well. It's like the weirdest example to bring up when you think about

01:52:37.320 someone who's not self aggrandizing. Okay. Well, that's the two hours. I did enjoy this. Um,

01:52:44.280 I think you're nice girl. So I did, I did enjoy this. And if you would like,

01:52:48.600 you're welcome to come back on the show and I want to argue some more or would you like to come back

01:52:53.000 or are you traumatized? No, I'm not traumatized. I thought your comments would be much worse.

01:52:57.960 All right. I mean, I thought your, your super chats. No, I think, you know, I think a lot of my stuff

01:53:04.040 isn't as I, I don't really care about the sex work though. If it was more now or then be a hooker,

01:53:10.600 you know, I don't care anymore. I mean, they don't really call it the youngest profession

01:53:14.600 in the world today. No, they've done it forever. Well, do you have any final thoughts? Can they

01:53:20.520 find you anywhere? Um, yeah, my final thoughts are you, I mean, if you want to send me some hate

01:53:27.160 comments or mass report, my account, then you can find me at blonde praxis on Tik Tok. And I think that

01:53:32.280 Pearl should maybe think about the fact that some of her views are actually less progressive than

01:53:37.320 organizations like the Taliban that potentially like we should think about the implications of

01:53:43.400 that. Right. Because like I was going through some quotes from the Taliban minister of justice,

01:53:47.640 for example, who was speaking about how like women wanting to work may cause them to commit suicide.

01:53:52.760 Or like if woman wants to work away from her home and with men, then that's like against their culture.

01:53:56.680 And I think that in so far as Pearl would agree with that, she's aligning herself with

01:54:01.400 Oh no, I think women should work. I don't have a problem with women working.

01:54:05.880 Okay. I don't, I actually, I would love to, I would love to see,

01:54:09.720 I would love to see more women work actually. I think we're pretty lazy.

01:54:12.920 We've got to work the oil rigs and we've got to raise our kids.

01:54:16.920 No, seriously, I would love to see women on the oil rigs.

01:54:19.720 So, okay. Well, I'll see you next week at the oil rig, Pearl. It was great talking to you.

01:54:24.040 We can, we can go. All right. Thanks for, thanks for coming on. I do appreciate a good back and forth.

01:54:31.080 Anyways, guys, thank you so much for watching tonight. Let me know what you guys think in the

01:54:36.520 comments. And if you, if you have a topic you want us to debate next time, we, you know,

01:54:42.760 put it in the comments and we'll set it up like the video, subscribe, and we'll talk to you later.

01:54:47.160 Bye bye.

01:54:49.720 Bye bye.

JustPearlyThings - August 04, 2025

Tilly MiddleHurst ｜ The Sitdown

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