You Won't Believe What This Modern Woman DID
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Summary
In this episode, I discuss the importance of reporting sexual harassment in the workplace and why women need to do their part to stop it happening. I also discuss the benefits of having a male boss and why modern women prefer to work for a man.
Transcript
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Even when it's a he said, she said, people have patterns of behavior.
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Like, honestly, I think it's selfish not to report it.
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Like, you want them to do that to someone else?
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If it genuinely happened, like, why would you not report it?
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Because even if, like, let's say justice isn't served for you,
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eventually they can build a case against the guy.
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So it's genuinely selfish if you don't report it.
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So when you say he said, she said, every time you go to the police
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you report it's always he said, she said, nothing is ever concrete.
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The reason why you go to the police is so that a case can be pulled against the person.
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So if I have five girls that say to me, my boss was inappropriate to me,
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Or my sister says to me, my boss was inappropriate to you.
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I say, the first thing you do is go and report it.
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If five women do not report it, then they say to me,
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oh, it's because of he said, she said, she said, whose fault is that?
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I'm not, no, no, no, I'm not blaming because you said to me.
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Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, listen for a second here.
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If someone does something to you, this is, look, let me look to the camera.
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Ladies, women, if somebody does something to you in your workplace, in your home,
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Because if you come on a platform and you say, oh, my man did this to me,
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my boss did this to me, and you tell me, and I say to you, so what did you do about it?
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I just can't take every woman that says that the truth.
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So in the last 25 years, women have made strides in management and leadership positions in the workplace.
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As of 2022, women represent 35% of leadership positions in companies in the U.S. and 33% in the U.K.
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Women also make up 27% of the seats in the current U.S. Congress and 35% of MPs in the U.K. Parliament.
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Studies have shown that organizations with a diverse mix of male and female leaders tend to outperform those that don't by 30%.
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While this may sound like nothing new, but like nothing, while this may sound like nothing but good news, a study from UCLA surveyed 60,000 professionals and found that women, even those who were managers themselves, were more likely to want a male boss than a female one.
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The participants explained that female bosses are emotional, catty, or bitchy.
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Men preferred male bosses too, but by a much smaller margin than female participants did.
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A much smaller survey by UCLA of law firms, staff, secretaries, paralegals, etc., nearly all of whom were women, resulted in not one saying that she or he would prefer to work for a female law partner.
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The studies showed that females in the legal profession that reported to a female boss showed more symptoms of distress, including trouble sleeping and headaches, when compared to working for a man.
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Gallup completed a survey that gave a holistic view of this phenomenon.
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The study found that almost 40% of women preferred male leadership as compared to 26% of men.
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When asked, would you prefer to work for a female or a male boss, the responses of those that preferred male leadership can be summed up as followed.
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Male bosses are more receptive towards new ideas and allowed execution with minimal interference.
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They have less drama and are less jealous of their better looking counterparts.
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They recognize and applaud commitment and dedication and are more direct to deal with and willing to wade into disagreements amongst subordinates.
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Also, statistics from the Workplace Bullying Institute have shown that 80% of the time, women bully other women while at work.
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If more women prefer male leadership, how is there a patriarchy of the modern workplace?
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What has your overall experience been with female leadership compared to male leadership in your industry?
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If you've never had both genders as bosses, you can say that too.
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Well, I've experienced both male and female management.
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But I'll say I've experienced one female management due to male.
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I feel like sometimes male management or stuff, they just tend to have like a more standoffish approach, whereas females are more straightforward.
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But there can be a bit of like that woman to woman kind of macho-ness, like kind of how men have that alpha kind of situation going on.
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I feel like that can occur at times, and obviously being a female, you know, we're very like intuitive at times.
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We're like, is she trying to, you know, play games?
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But, you know, yeah, nothing too intense, like very mediocre.
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I've had a woman manager once, and I prefer having a male manager just because they're less emotional.
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I feel like in terms of leadership, I trust men more, and I prefer a man to lead.
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And a lot of older women, not all, but a lot are a bit jealous of younger women, especially if they look nice or if they have a lot of talent.
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And sometimes it makes them wish that they were young again.
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So, yeah, I just prefer, I prefer men, like I trust male leadership.
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I've only had one female boss, and she was actually a very good friend of mine as well, and we worked wonderfully together.
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I'm 40, and she's, I think, 12 years older than me, and I think if you have a good working, understanding relationship with the woman that you're working with, it can be a really wonderful thing.
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I've worked for many, many males, the majority of whom have been inappropriate, I guess, at some point.
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Like, not physically, but just more, like, sly comments and things.
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Flirty and, you know, suggestive, you know, maybe provocative.
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Did you ever feel like you got, like, better, like you moved up faster because they were flirting with you?
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And, and actually there was one job that I worked at in the retail industry where we had a male manager and then all of the other employees were attractive women, all of them.
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All the other retail stores around us, you know, they knew that all of the girls that work there were particularly good looking and that there would always be like a new flow of good looking women.
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But overall, I think when you're a confident woman, then you can work with other confident women.
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And when you are a confident woman, you can take leadership from a man.
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I would say for me personally, the difference is between competence and incompetence.
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So if you're a competent leader, you're competent.
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And then the differentiating factor between a man and a woman is if you're disappointed by a rubbish woman boss.
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It's because they've been unkind to you or been overly critical or been overly judgmental.
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And then if you have a male boss that's incompetent, it's because he made a pass at you or he made you feel smaller than you should have felt.
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Or he belittled you in front of people when actually he was the one that was wrong.
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So I think the differentiation comes between their levels of incompetence.
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But competence is competence, irrespective of your male or female.
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Like with a male manager that I had, he was all about looks.
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And then my previous manager, who was a female, she was just very laid back.
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I agree with like what you were saying about competence.
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So if you have experience, if you care about the work that you do, whether you're male or female,
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you will like brush up on your leadership skills.
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So I believe that like technically, if push comes to shove, a man should lead the home.
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But in terms of the running of the home, the organization, the family, the, you know, like multitasking, everything else,
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how things look, organizing the finances, thinking about investments, like women lead.
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Um, and I've had an amazing female lead and I've had a...
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I've had like a really shit female boss who was a bitch.
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Um, and I was really young and yeah, she, yeah.
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Um, but men I've like, and I've had, it's same.
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I've had really good men bosses, um, or like colleagues.
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And then, but men in leadership, I trust women more, like competent women.
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Like there's, um, something really special when like strong women come together and work together.
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You ever see sorority houses versus frat houses?
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The frat houses, they're like best friends for life.
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Um, but when you like get a good mix, like, I don't know how to explain it.
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Like if you are a healthy person and you find another healthy person, there will be healthy
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Um, so, you know, you're getting old, but if you're dealing with your trauma with getting
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old and like the way that that makes you feel and you're faced with a beautiful young
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woman, you are not going to take out those feelings on her.
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There are nice people out there, but it's rare.
00:11:04.640
It's like, like mother vibe, like a mother daughter relationship.
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Well, it's almost like, it's only, I've noticed it's usually, I'm not saying all, but it's
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Like if they're married, they're like happily married.
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They got a man, but it's like when they're competing with you.
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And that's the dynamic between like older women and younger women, but there's also
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a dynamic between older men and men in general and women.
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And if men see you as a sexual object rather than a work colleague, it happens.
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Like I've been a teenager, like groped at work by my boss.
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Like I, when these things happen, grapes, okay, maybe not grapes, but like when, like
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you don't know how to, like, especially being a teenager, like I'm going to college.
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I live alone and you know, I'm going through things in my life and I've been through things
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in my life and it, it, you internalize it, if that makes sense.
00:12:01.660
Like you feel like you've done something wrong or you're to blame.
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So like, I put it on him and I like showed him it's not that bad, but like, what do
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I put it on him, like, bro, like, it's not that kind of party.
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And the US put it on him means something wrong.
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No, like, I didn't like straddle him in the cafe, but like, I just showed him like, that's
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But yeah, like when there's such a difference between age and like experience and just in
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general, like, even if there's not that difference between age and experience, like men think
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that they can be inappropriate and that's okay.
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You know, some men, some men, most men, because if you look at, you can't say most you, because
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you've got to look at a woman's experience and you've got to look at, they do research.
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Like if I've spoken to a hundred men in my life and 89.9, you think have moved in this
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Like, I just wouldn't, I mean, when I was, when I was young, I had a coach hit on me, but
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I would say like, I would say most men are good men.
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I have two brothers, one, which is AWOL and the other, which is Dutty, but kind of good.
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So, so if you put your brothers in the room with us, that's four men.
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If you put another three, you're going to say out of those 10 men, eight of us are inappropriate
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And you're assuming that my brothers like are cool.
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Nine of them are men that commit SA and don't know how to treat women.
00:14:05.200
So the same way that we said that older women may like try and put that on a woman and bring
00:14:11.660
out like their issues that they have about getting older and a young woman being threatening
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That's one dynamic between an older woman and a younger woman.
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An older or a similar age man and a woman from my experience.
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So I'm not saying in life in general, this is for everybody.
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But from my experience, over 50%, closer towards 89.9% have been inappropriate.
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Like looking at your blouse, like, or like, do you know what I mean?
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Um, I was at work, um, one day and I was like going through my shift.
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My job is one of those jobs where you get there.
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I don't really wear my uniform to work because I don't like to commute in my uniform.
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So I've gone on the shop floor and I'm just getting on with my job.
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I've got probably 11 hour shift, just going through it, going through, going through it.
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And one of the like new kind of old ish, like, you know, when someone goes to the job
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and they come back, we had like someone that had come back to the shop and they was like
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And I'm just like, you know, on the shop floor, getting on with everything.
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I'm seeing them gesture at me, like kind of like glaring towards me.
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And I'm thinking, um, this is, uh, like say for instance, a runner, like I work in hospitality.
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So, so like say for them, like head waitress, that's my position, senior waitress on the
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shop floor and I'm just doing my day to day, like, you know, diligence and, um, they was
00:15:40.240
doing their job, but it's like, they was glaring at me at a point.
00:15:49.400
No, it's one guy at this point, so one guy, this is just somebody that's not necessarily on
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a higher hierarchy in the, um, establishment, but it doesn't make a difference.
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So, um, yeah, he's glaring at me and I'm looking back, like, how can I help?
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Cause obviously being a female, you'll be conscious of when a male's looking at you.
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This is what I thought, um, Stephanie's trying to explain, like, you know, when someone's
00:16:10.140
kind of giving you kind of like, not uncomfortableness, but I'm not sure what
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you're trying to say, but you're not saying nothing.
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And so I've had to try and interpretate what he's looking at.
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Cause you've been looking at my front for a very long time.
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And when I made like the, you know, the announcement of like, oh, like, was you not going to say anything?
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Why is that something that, you know, it's weird.
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And guys tend to do things like in their mind, it seems lighthearted, but it's very serious.
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I was doing like a six hour shift with my flies undone.
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You have to be very, very clear in what you're saying.
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So you're explaining for her, but you can't explain for her situation.
00:17:04.360
But what I take from this, what I take from this as a man is.
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But when you start talking about 89 point, do you know what you're saying?
00:17:14.300
You're saying when you walk down the street, 90% of men are going to do a madness or going
00:17:24.780
You know, a guy could maybe be like this or not be like that.
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As a man, when we listen to women talk like this, we have to listen to what you're saying.
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And unless a man has actually done something that you can concrete say he did this, I reported
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this, what we hear is just what we always hear from women.
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Depending on what you feel is how you feel the scenario was.
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But if you didn't report it, if it wasn't unrecorded, all we have to go on is just what
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And you can't even be clearing what you believe it is.
00:17:52.600
Like, sorry, but I disagree with that because you're saying that unless someone reports
00:17:57.700
it, you only have their, like, version of events to go on.
00:18:05.240
But there are people who do report things and it's still their version of events.
00:18:12.080
Because if you don't, if you don't wait, wait, if you don't report it, it's he said,
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But even when you report it, he said, she said.
00:18:18.740
And when people report grape issues or SA issues, it's still a he say, she say.
00:18:24.940
Because if you're in a relationship with someone, if it's your uncle, yeah, whoever
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When you, like, people aren't here right now, there's a whole heap of people in this
00:18:36.560
But when your man does certain things, your man, you know, and you haven't agreed to
00:18:54.120
I'm saying to you that whether it's reported or whether it's not reported, it's still a
00:18:58.620
And the reason why people don't report it is because it's still a he say, she say.
00:19:05.900
There's no camera in my room to prove that what I'm saying is true.
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Do you understand the concept of what's a wonderful?
00:19:18.140
Okay, wait, wait, wait, but even when it's a he said, she said, people have patterns
00:19:22.840
Like, honestly, I think it's selfish not to report it.
00:19:26.480
Like, you want them to do that to someone else?
00:19:28.320
If it genuinely happened, like, why would you not report it?
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Because even if, like, let's say justice isn't served for you, if ten girls come forward
00:19:36.460
with the same story, eventually they can build a case against a guy.
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So it's genuinely selfish if you don't call it.
00:19:42.800
So when you say he says she, she, every time you go to the police and you make an accusation
00:19:47.040
against someone and report, it's always he says she, she.
00:19:50.560
The reason why you go to the police is so that a case can be pulled against the person.
00:19:54.060
So if I have five girls that say to me, my boss was inappropriate to me, and I said
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Or my sister says to me, my boss was inappropriate to you.
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I say, the first thing you do is go and report it.
00:20:03.260
If five women do not report it, then they say to me, oh, it's because of he says she,
00:20:14.420
Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, listen for a second, yeah.
00:20:22.060
If someone does something to you, this is, look, let me look to the camera.
00:20:24.940
Ladies, women, if somebody does something to you in your workplace, in your home, any man
00:20:29.940
is inappropriate, you need to go and report it straight away.
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Because if you come on a platform and you say, oh, my man did this to me, my boss did
00:20:39.780
this to me, and you tell me, and I say to you, so what did you do about it?
00:20:44.720
I just can't take every woman that says that the truth.
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I think we really, really should add that some women are so traumatized by what they have
00:21:01.160
Have you experienced essay, pearly things, or you?
00:21:05.220
Which is, which is, which is, I mean, the definition, the definition for essay is so broad now.
00:21:14.260
But arguably, I could, yeah, I could argue that I have.
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You were so brave then for having the courage to do it.
00:21:29.540
What if the first thing I was supposed to report?
00:21:32.740
And it's arguably, because it's like, nowadays you can report someone grabbing your butt at a
00:21:38.040
So, but, but if that's not warranted or that's not invited.
00:21:41.320
But some people don't think that's like a higher enough, you know, report.
00:21:48.460
But I'm saying like, like if you're, to me, okay, it doesn't make sense to me if you can
00:21:54.800
come on a podcast and talk about something, but you can't talk about it to the police.
00:21:59.760
So, I understand that some people like, okay, they might, they might not want to talk about
00:22:04.020
it publicly or they might like, if they're afraid, then they wouldn't go to my podcast
00:22:09.740
But, so again, I still, but I still think it's selfish.
00:22:13.140
I think, I think if you, if you, if you're telling me I'm selfish for being a 17 year
00:22:19.640
You don't know what I've experienced previous to that for not reporting my boss.
00:22:23.740
Who's probably about 40 years old and excuse me, let me land.
00:22:31.740
I'm asking you if you think I'm selfish, I'm a child at this point.
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All of them things that, you know, you can say by, yeah, like by, oh, you can't, you
00:22:46.440
However, whatever your opinion is, that's your business.
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And what I have walked through in that, in that situation right now, I'm 33 years old.
00:22:57.240
I work with, I do, I work in the community, but at that age, yeah, that young age, I am a
00:23:06.840
And you're telling me I am selfish, I am selfish, I am selfish.
00:23:11.580
Well, whatever you can't do, you can do a lot at 17.
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You're trying to, you're trying to, you're trying to make jokes and you're trying to interject
00:23:22.660
and you're trying to diverge from something that is very, very important.
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I think because then other girls have to deal with it.
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Like, I just think if something happened to me that was so traumatizing, like, I wouldn't
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You're like, basically, I can't, I can't judge other people.
00:23:55.380
You can say what you want and feel what you want.
00:23:58.060
And that doesn't mean that much to me because you don't know what people go through.
00:24:06.260
I don't know if you went through your experiences at that age.
00:24:08.700
And if you was living in a hostel at that age, and if you had gone through what I had gone
00:24:12.260
through at that age, yeah, we're different people.
00:24:22.120
You might have your mom to rub your back at the police station.
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So there are many people that are experiencing things.
00:24:32.140
Because why is it up to the victims to find and look down, you know, as a child to build
00:24:43.600
I encourage, I support, but find an organization.
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If you don't think you can do it on your own, if you are unsure, get the support that you
00:24:51.340
The main thing is that you have got support to get through the trauma of, yes, you get
00:24:56.200
your bum grabbed at a nightclub, but there's varying different traumas and lemmas of SA.
00:25:00.140
There's an organization, it's called the police.
00:25:07.520
Why am I going to go to them when I'm being a police?
00:25:09.440
So what you're doing now is, we've let you speak, we've let you tell your story, we've
00:25:14.500
But I'm sorry, but the world doesn't owe any one of us understanding.
00:25:17.760
Lots of people are going through lots of things.
00:25:19.380
Because end of the day, it's very selfish for you to be assaulted by a man or whatever
00:25:22.860
you said, and he's 40 years harassed or whatever it is, but it's made you feel this strongly
00:25:28.100
It's gone into your life and it's obviously followed you.
00:25:30.340
You have let this man go into the world and possibly do it to many other women before.
00:25:34.660
This is like knowing a man is actually like, for example, if someone touched kids and
00:25:47.120
Okay, so if you're going to keep doing this, then we're not going to be able to get off.
00:25:50.960
Because basically, you said to me, at 17, you can open a bank account.
00:25:54.040
You can open a bank account at like 11 years old.
00:25:56.060
What tends to happen is a lot of people come over here and they're trying to act like,
00:25:59.480
oh, when I wasn't an adult, at 17, you knew right from wrong.
00:26:03.020
End of the day, if you had any family, any people around you, if you didn't, could use
00:26:09.000
You cannot come into a platform and be this fluid and be this articulate and challenge
00:26:16.940
Then you say to me, okay, I got attacked by the police.
00:26:19.000
Okay, so you don't have, or whatever it is you say.
00:26:37.220
But you're saying to me, so I don't have to take this on board.
00:26:45.360
What you're saying is very, very, very, very, very.
00:26:47.040
No, no, no, no, hold on a second, hold on a second.
00:26:54.060
And the reason you're not letting me finish is because the moment I do, you don't have
00:27:06.920
Because the thing is, yeah, we're not going to be able to have a conversation if you keep
00:27:09.700
doing this, because you keep getting triggered.
00:27:13.200
No, if this is trauma, let's not talk about it, because you're getting very triggered by
00:27:17.360
If this is causing you trauma, because we can't even have a conversation, in order for
00:27:20.680
me to have a conversation, we're going to have to ask you some questions.
00:27:24.000
And every time I do, you get triggered and you interrupt me.
00:27:26.440
So I don't want to do it if we can't do it, Paul.
00:27:35.320
All right, let me present something to you, Steph, yeah?
00:27:42.140
So, Steph, let's say you could, you were looking right now at a 17-year-old girl who has just
00:27:50.480
experienced, you're a fly on the wall, you see a 17-year-old girl who's just experienced
00:27:55.260
what you went through with the police, with those situations.
00:28:01.200
What, right now, sitting here now, what do you think are the steps that that 17-year-old
00:28:22.980
My advice and my concern is for her mental health and that she is supported.
00:28:30.420
So, my priority over speaking to the police, which I think is the best course of action
00:28:35.980
if she feels able to do so, is to make sure that somebody she trusts, whether it's a member
00:28:41.820
of her family, whether it's a friend, whoever is aware of her situation, because if she's
00:28:47.480
feeling low, if, you know, I mean, that's my concern.
00:28:51.960
You don't think the number one concern would be to stop it from happening again?
00:28:57.660
So, now it could happen to 10 girls or it could happen to one girl.
00:29:00.920
I think it's a point of view situation that we're not going on.
00:29:04.460
It's someone coming from trauma and someone coming from stoicism.
00:29:07.940
So, it's two completely different point of views that don't interject.
00:29:12.140
So, I get what you're saying in the sense that, say it with your chest, right?
00:29:19.800
But your statistic is, you're coming at her with maths.
00:29:25.680
So, obviously, there's going to be a complete non...
00:29:36.600
I've just been spending the whole day with my niece.
00:29:38.040
You can look at my story, playing with them, yeah?
00:29:39.580
I have a very good relationship with my younger sister.
00:29:45.460
If you don't have people around you and you can't go to the police,
00:29:48.160
then I'm more concerned that there's men around here and doing things to women.
00:29:57.820
But whenever I try to speak about what can we do to stop this
00:30:00.400
or what can we do to at least bring more awareness to this,
00:30:04.300
A suggestion of what people can do to stop this is perhaps...
00:30:12.560
You don't feel like you have that safe space to say it.
00:30:18.300
And then when someone mentioned it to you, you fly off the handle.
00:30:21.180
That's how most people handle these situations.
00:30:29.220
It's come at them from, I understand that you're...
00:30:34.620
This reaction comes from a place of fear and anger.
00:30:41.500
In fact, I'm asking him to just communicate with me.
00:30:44.500
No, you're asking him to communicate like a woman.
00:30:46.560
Well, then you're putting different variances on the world.
00:30:56.180
It goes back to macho-ness and, like, you know,
00:31:46.720
going around to get to the bottom of something.