kinsellacast - May 12, 2024


KINSELLACAST 311: From Israel to Canada with those who know the truth - plus Against Me, Joyce Manor, Fugazi, Smoke or Fire, Wailers


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 14 minutes

Words per Minute

125.32197

Word Count

9,358

Sentence Count

360

Misogynist Sentences

11

Hate Speech Sentences

100


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 It's the KinsellaCast, starring Warren Kinsella.
00:00:23.360 Hey, it's Warren. Welcome to the KinsellaCast. I'm back.
00:00:26.980 I'm back from Israel. Got back Friday or Saturday or Thursday, I don't know, playing jet lag and time zones and all that.
00:00:35.760 It's kind of hard to keep track. But I'm back, and it was quite a week, I'll tell you better than a minute.
00:00:44.920 And I've got, on this week's show, Brian Lilly, of course, but also a former senior, very senior, Israeli Armed Forces guy,
00:00:54.800 talking about Rafa and some interesting things.
00:01:01.620 And then I've also got a very senior member of the Israeli government, Foreign Affairs Department,
00:01:08.580 talking about what's happening here as well as there.
00:01:12.600 And then I've got music that reflects my anger and frustration and bewilderment, Joyce Manor, Fugazi against me,
00:01:25.800 and Toots the Maytals at the end.
00:01:29.480 But, yeah, so that's what we've got.
00:01:34.440 And I guess what I thought I would do is start off with something different.
00:01:42.560 One day this week, we were in Siderot, which was a place where a bunch of seniors were slaughtered by Hamas.
00:01:51.660 They were on a tour bus.
00:01:54.380 Men, women, children, babies.
00:01:57.260 It's a big kibbutz, like over 30,000.
00:02:00.940 Well, it's not a kibbutz. It's like a city, really.
00:02:03.100 30,000 people there.
00:02:04.300 They got into it, and we were standing by a couple of kindergartens that had to set up concrete barricades
00:02:14.260 because Hamas was firing missiles at kindergartens.
00:02:22.600 So we were talking to this guy, this kind of wheeler-dealer, again, former military.
00:02:27.840 Everybody in Israel is former military or presently military.
00:02:31.040 And he was talking about the reality within Gaza, and then all of a sudden, this happened.
00:02:49.860 So that's just a snippet.
00:02:53.460 At the start of it, you could hear something.
00:02:55.760 That was the sound of artillery fire.
00:02:57.880 So basically, that was 10 a.m. on Monday, which was Holocaust Remembrance Day.
00:03:04.760 It's a day when all of Israel stops, like cars on the highway stop driving, people stop moving, they stop talking.
00:03:12.440 And it's total silence across the country, except for the artillery fire.
00:03:17.880 And when we heard that, we thought an attack was underway, and it wasn't.
00:03:22.380 It was the IDF deploying artillery, firing off shots to deter Hamas from attacking during this moment of reflection and quiet.
00:03:37.540 Because apparently they've done that before.
00:03:39.020 And like this country, Israel can't even have a moment of reflection for their dead, because their enemies will use that moment of reflection to kill more of them.
00:03:56.460 It's just unbelievable.
00:03:59.040 Anyway, one of the first things I noticed about Israel, that you would notice too, when you come there, it's the people.
00:04:08.840 And the sights are beautiful, for sure.
00:04:12.220 But the people.
00:04:13.600 Like at the hotels, I stayed at a couple in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
00:04:18.800 No spare rooms.
00:04:19.700 They're all full.
00:04:20.160 In the mornings, you know, when they have the included breakfast, you can see exhausted parents trying to corral their kids, who are wearing pajamas all the time.
00:04:30.760 And they look sadder than a kid ever should.
00:04:33.620 And out on the streets, the restaurants and shops are mostly empty.
00:04:38.680 Fewer people than usual can be seen walking around.
00:04:42.220 And outside the cities like Jerusalem, you see soldiers everywhere.
00:04:46.560 They're so young-looking.
00:04:48.420 Lots and lots of them carrying M-16s and Glock and 6-hour firearms, sidearms.
00:04:56.120 And the citizens you meet don't smile much.
00:04:57.940 They look sad.
00:04:58.920 They look anxious.
00:05:00.020 And some of them carry guns, too.
00:05:02.500 So why are the hotels so full?
00:05:05.100 Here's why.
00:05:06.560 They're refugees.
00:05:08.060 When Hamas attacked in the south and slaughtered 1,200 people and incinerated their homes,
00:05:13.720 the survivors needed somewhere to live, so they moved to hotel rooms in the cities where they've been trapped for months.
00:05:21.820 Many don't want to return with their kids to the kibbutzim.
00:05:26.060 So near are they to the border with Gaza.
00:05:28.940 And I mean near.
00:05:30.420 Same with the ones from the north, the ones within easy rocket and missile range of Hezbollah.
00:05:36.380 They'll likely never be allowed back.
00:05:38.620 Thousands and thousands of people.
00:05:41.180 Families with kids.
00:05:42.360 The elderly.
00:05:44.420 And why so few people in the streets, the shops, and the restaurants?
00:05:47.620 Because the tourists are staying away in droves.
00:05:49.540 Because many Israelis are unenthusiastic to be out somewhere caught in an attack.
00:05:55.040 And so in old Jerusalem, you know, like old Jerusalem is where the holiest places in Christianity and Judaism and Islam are.
00:06:03.960 There's these bilingual signs on every corner just about recalling who was shot to death or stabbed to death on that spot.
00:06:11.180 There's a lot of those signs.
00:06:13.800 And why the sad faces?
00:06:15.320 That also is obvious.
00:06:18.040 Everybody there knows someone who was killed or taken hostage.
00:06:22.280 Everybody has a relative in the army because service is mandatory.
00:06:26.560 Everybody feels completely and totally abandoned by those they formerly considered friends and allies.
00:06:35.420 Like us.
00:06:36.940 Like Canadians.
00:06:37.640 As they live refugee lives and cramp hotel rooms far from their homes, Israelis watch the news carefully because there's not much else to do.
00:06:46.900 They see the hate rallies in our streets.
00:06:48.940 They see the attacks on Canadian synagogues and Jewish community centers and businesses.
00:06:53.860 They see our kids, white, privileged kids, hiding behind masks, camping out at universities, making tributes to actual terrorists.
00:07:06.620 The Israelis see all that and they feel utterly and completely alone.
00:07:11.840 They feel abandoned by those they considered allies and friends, like Canadians.
00:07:15.600 And they wonder if October 7th, 2023 is some new Kristallnacht, a reprise of what followed it.
00:07:24.280 They wonder if Hamas and Iran and their satanic brethren will finish what the Nazis started.
00:07:30.280 And over and over, Israelis express bewilderment to me.
00:07:34.800 Why do so many in the West regard us as this warmongering, white supremacist, Islamophobic, apartheid regime led by a fascist?
00:07:43.980 Like, why?
00:07:45.780 And it's true.
00:07:47.580 Like, lots of people think Israelis fully support the government of Benjamin Netanyahu and his senior leadership and the armed forces and the intelligence agencies.
00:07:56.040 But they don't.
00:07:57.960 They just don't.
00:07:59.160 Like, every single Israeli I met, everyone expressed barely controlled rage about Netanyahu and his generals and his advisors.
00:08:08.940 They want all of them gone.
00:08:11.360 They want to clean out the stables.
00:08:13.280 Like, they're livid that Netanyahu and his gang did not foresee October 7th coming.
00:08:18.840 They are shocked still that it happened.
00:08:22.200 Like, some of them just openly detest Netanyahu.
00:08:24.640 And similarly, the notion that the Israeli people are, you know, this far-right, theocratic backwater that hates Muslims.
00:08:34.200 Like, it's false.
00:08:35.780 It's bullshit.
00:08:37.400 Almost all of the men, women, children, and babies slaughtered on the 7th were farmers and rural people who live off the land.
00:08:45.760 Like, most, they're socialists, basically.
00:08:48.420 They're atheist, socialist people who would never vote for Netanyahu.
00:08:52.320 And the families who protest every single day outside of Netanyahu's official residence in Jerusalem,
00:08:59.740 they don't think the government's done enough to get back the hostages.
00:09:03.820 And Muslims.
00:09:06.220 20% of Israel's population is Muslim.
00:09:11.260 Muslims were murdered and kidnapped on October 7th, too.
00:09:15.960 They are mourned and missed in Jerusalem and in Israel as much as Jews are.
00:09:22.320 So, does Israel possess military might?
00:09:24.960 Yeah, of course.
00:09:26.960 But Israelis want peace more than land.
00:09:29.340 Like, over and over since 1967, they've ceded land to hostile Muslim forces, betting that it will foster peace.
00:09:37.200 And every single time, they've lost the bet.
00:09:40.400 Case in point, a ceasefire existed, you know, until October 6th.
00:09:45.340 And it was broken by Hamas the next day, not by Israel.
00:09:49.260 Are the Israelis as militaristic as the campus infant Fada claim?
00:09:56.320 Well, after Iran bombarded Israel with hundreds of missiles and rockets and drones less than a month ago,
00:10:05.700 not one Arab nation, maybe Syria, would have objected if Israel had bombed Iran's regime back to the Stone Age.
00:10:16.460 But Israel didn't.
00:10:17.900 They fired off a few warning shots, and then they withdrew.
00:10:22.320 The Allies didn't do that in Dresden or Hiroshima, did they?
00:10:26.880 At near Oz, a kibbutz where many residents were murdered or kidnapped.
00:10:32.660 We were led around by Rita Lifshitz.
00:10:35.820 And she stood in front of the ruined home of her father-in-law.
00:10:41.480 He was in his 80s.
00:10:42.420 And he was a pro-Palestinian Israeli.
00:10:44.680 Like, he used to take sick gazans to hospital.
00:10:48.940 Hamas kidnapped him.
00:10:51.120 Rita looks like she hasn't smiled in months, and she probably hasn't.
00:10:55.500 And we watched her.
00:10:57.020 You know, she looked over the charred ruins of her father-in-law's home.
00:11:01.180 And then she whispered, just loud enough for me to hear her.
00:11:04.760 It's like a holocaust.
00:11:07.860 Israel doesn't feel so much like a country these days.
00:11:11.440 It feels like an open wound.
00:11:14.160 It needs healing.
00:11:15.240 It needs healing.
00:11:30.300 It needs healing.
00:11:47.000 It needs healing.
00:11:50.580 It needs healing.
00:11:53.100 It needs healing.
00:11:53.480 Lock the door to your room
00:12:15.820 Pray they don't find us
00:12:19.620 Pray they don't kick it down
00:12:23.000 Oh, you've been keeping secrets
00:12:26.260 And these kind of lies have consequences
00:12:35.760 So many possibilities for this to all end badly
00:12:43.560 It's almost guaranteed
00:12:48.140 Nothing but shame and paranoia
00:12:53.400 A slightly desperate feeling
00:12:56.900 To calm you to sleep
00:13:01.200 What could we have done?
00:13:08.460 What could we have done?
00:13:11.960 What could we deserve?
00:13:13.960 A violence like this
00:13:15.460 What could we have done?
00:13:21.460 What good to deserve
00:13:25.200 A violence like this
00:13:51.460 And we'll watch a light coming out of the door
00:14:02.880 Listen for footsteps coming down the hall
00:14:10.960 Are you gonna wake up screaming
00:14:14.800 Through a slit throat
00:14:17.860 Young flesh searing on a twin mattress
00:14:24.220 But it doesn't have to be
00:14:29.720 The way things end
00:14:33.280 We don't have to give up just yet
00:14:39.000 What could we have done?
00:14:43.260 What good to deserve
00:14:46.520 A violence like this
00:14:50.020 What could we have done?
00:14:57.160 What good to deserve
00:15:00.260 A violence like this
00:15:03.660 How could we be a villain?
00:15:07.160 What good to deserve
00:15:21.060 A violence like this
00:15:24.120 We'll be right back.
00:15:54.120 We'll be right back.
00:16:24.120 And we're back.
00:16:40.800 And we're back after a week apart with my buddy and colleague, Brian Lilly.
00:16:46.780 I was in Israel, as Brian previously was, in January.
00:16:53.400 And he had some insights then and now.
00:16:57.760 And I wanted to talk to him about those.
00:17:00.200 One of the people who will be featured on the podcast this week, Brian, and apologies for my jet lag, is a former ranking officer in the Israeli Defense Forces.
00:17:14.600 And one of the things he said to me, and the media colleagues are with me on this mission to Israel, was that Israel has no choice but to go into Rafa.
00:17:26.080 They don't do it with any enthusiasm.
00:17:27.900 But if they don't, they're going to let Hamas get away.
00:17:32.000 They're going to let Hamas get away with hostages.
00:17:34.400 They have to go in to get the remaining hostages, however many are alive.
00:17:39.900 What do you think about that?
00:17:41.080 Obviously, everybody from Joe Biden on down has said, no, no, no, don't go into Rafa.
00:17:47.700 What do you think needs to be done?
00:17:49.360 Well, I'm amazed it's taken them this long to go into Rafa.
00:17:55.540 And they still are doing incursions in northern Gaza.
00:18:01.440 Despite the rhetoric of Israel's critics, even now, they're not occupying Gaza.
00:18:08.380 They're going back into areas of northern Gaza, which most people had thought had been previously cleared, and doing strikes in areas.
00:18:18.040 They've been holding off on going into Rafa for months now.
00:18:25.200 I remember talking to people shortly after we came back from Israel in late January, and it was all a discussion about when will the ground offensive in Rafa happen.
00:18:39.280 Israel has taken its time.
00:18:40.960 It has prepared things.
00:18:42.300 It has ensured humanitarian corridors.
00:18:44.320 It has ensured the ability of actual civilians to be able to get out, and it's being very careful.
00:18:51.460 So, yes, they do have to go into Rafa.
00:18:53.480 They have to go into Rafa now, and they will not eliminate Hamas and all of its supporters,
00:19:01.960 because any polling that you see shows that the vast majority of people in Gaza support Hamas.
00:19:09.940 It's why, you know, people will, you'll hear the Israeli government talk about, oh, we're not fighting the people of Gaza, we're fighting Hamas.
00:19:20.040 The people of Gaza want Hamas back in.
00:19:22.260 So they're never going to get rid of Hamas and the ideology, but what they will do is make sure that they are severely degraded militarily,
00:19:29.880 and their ability to launch future strikes on Israel like they did on October 7th.
00:19:37.960 That has to be done.
00:19:39.140 And, you know, the two words you used just a minute ago, I want to emphasize as well, because I agree with every word you said, do it very carefully.
00:19:48.440 Like, the notion that the world has this mythology that they're going to, you know, eliminate Rafa, like bomb the place till it's rubble, well, that's killing their own people.
00:20:02.560 Like, that is not the intention.
00:20:04.680 I think one of the objectives is to close the tunnel between Egypt and Gaza, through which all these munitions that have been used against Israelis and others has gone.
00:20:16.500 I mean, that's one of the objectives as well that's quite legitimate, isn't it?
00:20:20.860 It is.
00:20:21.360 And, you know, if Israel was conducting a genocide, as their critics claim, as all these misinformed students and agitators and useful idiots are proclaiming day after day, well, then they would have just bombed Rafa to rubble.
00:20:41.340 They would have done that with the entire Gaza Strip, and they haven't done that.
00:20:45.860 Has there been devastation of infrastructure?
00:20:50.560 Absolutely, because the infrastructure was tied into a terror tunnel network.
00:20:54.320 And that is the fault of the organization that has been governing Gaza effectively since 2005, officially since 2007, I believe it was.
00:21:03.540 They have taken billions of dollars of aid, and instead of building water treatment plants and water provisions to provide clean drinking water to their people or to provide electricity, they built terror tunnels.
00:21:23.100 And I remember speaking with one retired IDF officer while I was there who spent a lot of time in Gaza working alongside civilian authorities long before October 7th, and Israel provided a certain amount of electricity.
00:21:41.060 And the local authorities would come and say, well, we need you to provide more.
00:21:44.480 And they said, well, why?
00:21:45.280 And they said, well, why?
00:21:45.400 We're providing you enough for ABC.
00:21:48.400 Well, that electricity was also being diverted to Hamas's terror tunnel activities.
00:21:55.120 And everybody knew that, and they would just say, well, we need it for the civilians.
00:22:00.500 You know, this idea of Israel starving people to death, bombing them into the Stone Age is simply not backed up by facts.
00:22:13.260 The amount of aid, the amount of aid going in is crazy.
00:22:18.400 The population of Gaza has increased year after year after year.
00:22:25.000 If that is anyone's version of a genocide, I think you need to look up what the meaning of the word is again.
00:22:31.600 And, you know, the aid that has gone in and then sat there because it will not be picked up by UNRWA or Hamas or the other organizations that are in there supposedly distributing food, food has rotted because they've tried to go in.
00:22:50.340 And so they are being careful, and they are not doing what the critics worldwide are claiming.
00:22:59.320 One more person that I'm going to be featuring on the podcast along with you and the former general is a guy at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Jerusalem.
00:23:13.440 A very interesting guy.
00:23:15.060 He said, you know, we're watching what's taking place in your country, Warren, and around the world, and we're concerned.
00:23:23.020 And, you know, they're mouthing the slogans of Hamas and paying tribute to Hamas, and some pretty wild things are happening.
00:23:33.540 So, yeah, we're aware of that.
00:23:34.960 We're fighting a war at the moment.
00:23:36.460 We're more preoccupied with that.
00:23:38.640 But we're aware of what's happening in your country.
00:23:41.580 And the one thing he said that really stayed with me was, they're not just after us.
00:23:49.500 They're not just after the Jews.
00:23:51.360 They're not just after the state of Israel.
00:23:53.680 They're after you, too, you know, with the funding from Qatar and the oversight from Iran.
00:24:00.420 They're after democracy in the West.
00:24:03.520 You just were abroad yourself, Brian.
00:24:06.280 Like, do you think it's true?
00:24:07.740 Do you think it is that wide?
00:24:09.360 Have you seen evidence that this is showing up in other places and not just Canada?
00:24:14.900 Well, unlike CBC, which did a quote-unquote fact check that I think you'll be dealing with shortly, we actually look for evidence as opposed to CBC saying, well, we looked and didn't really look, and so we didn't find anything.
00:24:29.220 You and I have looked, and we've seen the reports.
00:24:32.280 We've followed the money trail.
00:24:34.280 And, yeah, this is being funded by Qatar, by Iran, worldwide movements.
00:24:41.260 And you're right.
00:24:42.960 I was just abroad.
00:24:43.620 I was in Scotland for a week.
00:24:45.560 And whether it was in Glasgow or in Edinburgh, the profile of the people who are showing up and saying free Palestine is virtually identical.
00:24:55.120 You know, the student groups, the left-wing groups, I was at the Scottish Parliament a few days ago, and the encampments look exactly like they do here.
00:25:09.080 The rhetoric is exactly the same.
00:25:11.780 I was on the Royal Mile, just steps from Edinburgh Castle, outside of St. Giles Cathedral, where Queen Elizabeth laid in state after her passing at Balmoral Castle.
00:25:23.400 And there's a group of, you know, effectively, they're like the raging grannies singing for a ceasefire outside of the church.
00:25:30.720 And you look at all these groups, and you say, if we went back 30, 30-plus years to before the fall of the Iron Curtain, these exact same people would be doing the exact same things, denouncing the West, praising the USSR, praising Soviet-style politics and ways of life.
00:25:54.380 They're using the same playbook that was used during the Cold War, and it's the same groups of people.
00:25:59.580 These are what Lenin called the useful idiots, and they are a fifth column in our midst, willing to undermine democracy, willing to undermine our way of life.
00:26:13.220 But what we have to acknowledge, though, unlike, you know, 40, 50 years ago, these groups, they just seem more numerous and better organized.
00:26:24.800 I mean, it's reached the point where they're projecting, you know, the logo of the Hamas military wing on the side of buildings at the University of Toronto.
00:26:33.680 Like, it's reached the point where they're advocating online, you know, federally registered non-profits, so-called, advocating for martyrdom online and getting away with it.
00:26:45.900 Like, you know, you've got people showing up with 100 flags.
00:26:52.980 I sent you the video of these guys showing up with 100 flags on poles at U of T.
00:27:00.960 This is all people affiliated with the, I believe it's the Palestine group.
00:27:06.280 50 bucks a flag, 100 bucks a flag.
00:27:08.460 Yeah, and then they're putting them on poles, they're stapling them, they've got vehicles, they've got organization, they've got warehouses.
00:27:16.720 The other day, they were promoting that they had 20,000 wristbands, those little plastic wristbands with Free Palestine printed on them.
00:27:25.680 They had buttons.
00:27:26.680 All of this costs money.
00:27:28.200 This does not happen, as you and I both know, in a grassroots way.
00:27:32.360 And it's, you know, I had a gentleman on the Full Comment podcast a couple of weeks ago, and he was talking about how this is Qatari money.
00:27:46.820 These are Qatari funds.
00:27:48.120 And, yes, Iran's part of it, but while the rest of the Gulf states are moving to minimize things, to go in a different route, not to court extremism, Qatar is going in the opposite way.
00:28:05.060 And this money is coming into Canada.
00:28:07.120 It is being laundered in Canada at times, and it's going around the world.
00:28:12.260 So, unlike CBC, we've shown our work, and the other organizations have shown their work.
00:28:21.620 The federal government has to start dealing with this.
00:28:24.760 Unfortunately, we've got a very weak federal government right now that has just decided to make a major policy shift on Friday.
00:28:33.340 I don't know if you saw that due to your travels and schedule, but they have decided that they no longer need to wait for peace to recognize a Palestinian state.
00:28:44.200 So they didn't vote yes at the UN, but they abstained and said, we'll look at rewarding, and this is my view, rewarding Hamas sooner rather than later.
00:28:54.780 They just sent a major signal to Hamas, hold on, hold off, don't surrender, because more countries are coming your way to give you the political support and backing that you need.
00:29:08.760 Well, my hope is, and, you know, when I came back, my partner, E, who you know and is not a political person, she said, you know, I watched what Polly have said about these recent developments with Israel, and I agreed with every single word, and I did as well.
00:29:25.260 You know, a change in government cannot come soon enough on this issue in particular, because I just feel that we are led by a government that has zero moral compass, zero sense of what is right.
00:29:39.840 Brian Lilly, it's so great to hear your voice. Thank you, my friend.
00:29:44.240 You're going to tee up what follows in the podcast, these important people I spoke to in Israel, and then I think after that, both of us need to have a nap somewhere and get rid of this jet lag.
00:29:56.200 Yes, the jet lag is real.
00:29:58.580 All right, brother. Thanks so much, and have a great day and a great week.
00:30:25.260 I can hear you coming, so I hit by the couch.
00:30:33.640 You were talking so loudly, I don't know what about, but you were drunker than high school.
00:30:41.580 Self-conscious and sweet, I never, ever felt so cool.
00:30:46.160 Disguised in your sheets, but I'm a constant headache, a tooth out of line.
00:30:53.220 They try to make you regret it, you'll tell them, no, not this time.
00:30:58.360 I'm just a constant headache, a death pet device.
00:31:03.540 You hang me up, I'm finished with a better bottoming all under mine.
00:31:10.100 And then you finally found me, pretending to sleep.
00:31:32.560 You said such nice things about me, I felt guilty and cheap.
00:31:37.580 You took two steps to the kitchen, just stared at the sink.
00:31:42.320 I couldn't hold back a smile, I still wish I could have seen.
00:31:46.920 You having sex in the morning, your love was foreign to me.
00:31:52.000 It made me think maybe human's not such a bad thing to be.
00:31:57.020 But I just lay there in protest, entirely fucked.
00:32:02.080 It's such a stubborn reminder, one perfect night's not enough.
00:32:07.100 It's just a constant headache, a tooth out of line.
00:32:11.920 They try to make you regret it, you'll tell, no, not this time.
00:32:17.320 It's just a constant headache, a death pet device.
00:32:22.400 You hang me up, I'm finished with a better bottoming all under mine.
00:32:41.920 You hang me up, I'm finished with a better bottoming all under mine.
00:33:01.400 Okay, I'm here with Mr. Gandler.
00:33:07.040 And, you know, some people have referred to this kind of as a hidden hand,
00:33:14.440 that there really seems to be an organizational PR push here.
00:33:19.860 What, just in general terms, what would Israel feel about that?
00:33:26.380 So there is definitely a hidden hand.
00:33:29.880 It's a good term.
00:33:33.440 This is not organic.
00:33:35.040 This is not, oh, look what happened, let's protest.
00:33:41.500 This has been going on for years.
00:33:46.440 The infrastructure for the existence of this has been set up years ago under other pretextes.
00:33:56.200 Whether it be, oh, look what they're doing in Afghanistan or Iraq,
00:34:01.420 we need to organize around that, or Israel and Palestinians, we need to organize around that.
00:34:09.480 But there's a force, a state-driven force that has been pushing and investing.
00:34:18.880 An extremely wealthy force that has been investing a lot of money.
00:34:25.900 And a lot of, not just money, but time, which is way more important into shaping what he wants a response to be when the day comes when he needs it.
00:34:39.960 Everyone sort of does this with, it's called public diplomacy, or you can call it light diplomacy, but this is more than that.
00:34:55.040 This is heavy investing into changing or rearranging the political map of other countries.
00:35:09.220 It is a political push.
00:35:11.560 It is not about liking your country, which that's what public diplomacy is for.
00:35:16.780 It is for, oh, look, we're nice, come and love us.
00:35:20.340 This is not for that.
00:35:22.500 This is an infrastructure that has been built into, we want to change the other.
00:35:29.700 So this hidden hand, this power that has been moving by very influential state actors has been set up for decades now.
00:35:41.500 Is the target Israel or beyond Israel, Western democracy, decency, tolerance?
00:35:47.380 It is Western liberal democracy that is on the line.
00:35:52.240 That we are the bastion of this in a very tough environment.
00:36:01.820 The Western democracy that is represented in Canada, the United States, Western Europe, and also in Israel, that is the aim at the end of the day.
00:36:13.800 In order to change that into something else, something that we might be more agreeable with, something that is not going to hinder our actions.
00:36:31.860 It is a transformative or a case for transformation of that society.
00:36:41.280 Earlier you mentioned resources and a state actor.
00:36:46.200 What about, to get specific, something like TikTok, headquartered in the People's Republic of China.
00:36:53.200 It's one of, I know, to be one of the principal platforms for anti-Semitism and Jew hatred and anti-Israelism, but also anti-democracy on the planet.
00:37:03.300 You know, what meaningful steps can states take?
00:37:07.340 You know, the United States has representatives, both sides, both parties have said it, unless you change your ownership structure, you know, we're going to remove you from the United States.
00:37:15.720 Is that kind of thing meaningful?
00:37:17.480 Would that kind of thing make a difference?
00:37:18.940 So it's not only TikTok, it's every platform, basically.
00:37:24.820 It's about the fact that, well, people have been given a voice, and there are wonderful things that came out of those voices.
00:37:32.240 Wonderful things that came out of social media.
00:37:34.720 You can find a puppy to care for.
00:37:38.400 You can find someone who speaks your language in a country you're not part of.
00:37:45.040 But it also gives a way for extremists to influence, to be used as platforms of influence campaigns.
00:37:56.240 It doesn't have to be extremists.
00:37:58.600 I'll correct myself.
00:37:59.480 It could be people who want to influence and change.
00:38:05.500 It gives them a platform to do it for the better or for the worst.
00:38:10.780 And we need to protect ourselves from the worst part.
00:38:14.060 The better is great.
00:38:15.940 What happens when we're at worst?
00:38:19.140 Where does it go?
00:38:20.400 Does it allow an influencer to change the government?
00:38:24.180 Because he has more resources, because he garners more power, because there's a state actor behind him.
00:38:32.840 We need to understand how we protect ourselves from those influences.
00:38:38.160 And we need to probably regulate those platforms or have those platforms regulate themselves while we supervise that regulation.
00:38:46.760 But it can be an open market for a free-for-all, where the one with the most power and the most resources can influence.
00:38:59.980 Final question, because I know you're busy.
00:39:02.160 Related exactly to that, the one with the most power.
00:39:06.300 In Canada and the United States, and to some extent in Europe, the principal problem, you can identify it demographically, it's Gen Z.
00:39:15.920 You know, kids are 18 to kind of 24, 25, to some degree millennials, who go beyond that to the age of 40.
00:39:24.980 You know, Holocaust denial, anti-Semitic attitudes, profoundly anti-Israel points of view.
00:39:32.400 Among Gen Z, their search engine of choice is not Google, it's TikTok.
00:39:39.100 It seems to me that, you know, we're getting beaten, those of us who support Israel, at that game.
00:39:47.720 We're getting beaten with those demographics, which creates a generational problem, where we lose a generation.
00:39:55.900 Is that something that concerns you as a citizen of Israel and a guy who works for the Israeli government?
00:40:03.380 Is that something we need to turn our attention to after the war?
00:40:08.820 Absolutely, always.
00:40:11.580 It seems like Gen Z, as we define them, that 18 to 25-year-olds, even a bit younger, maybe 16 to 25-year-olds,
00:40:22.380 they have moved away enough from the Holocaust, from what happened to Jews, from the birth of the State of Israel and the reasons for that birth.
00:40:38.140 They have moved far enough to build a different reality, or to be open to ideas that don't necessarily have truth built into them,
00:40:53.380 maybe half-truths, which is worse than a lie.
00:40:56.460 And they are now adapting other points of view, maybe to rebel against previous generations.
00:41:11.600 Maybe to build something that is new as they are, because they are probably the first generation that was completely born into this digital world.
00:41:24.960 The millennials weren't.
00:41:26.880 They still had dial-up modems.
00:41:31.220 They still had books to read and papers to write on paper.
00:41:37.240 Gen Zs are already in this dual world where they live both in reality and online.
00:41:45.720 And when you live online, reality morphs.
00:41:49.780 It changes.
00:41:50.700 It becomes whatever it is presented to you and is not completely based on truths.
00:42:05.300 It's very post-modernist.
00:42:09.660 The digital world is post-modernist.
00:42:12.540 There isn't a structure that you have to abide by.
00:42:15.700 So living within those contrasts or constructs where there isn't a physical wall of knowledge, of truth,
00:42:27.540 then you can push wherever you want.
00:42:30.400 The truth becomes irrelevant.
00:42:34.620 It becomes fluid.
00:42:36.100 So we definitely have to invest in those people and that generation in order to basically to help ourselves.
00:42:50.840 They're the ones that are going to lead this world in 20 to 30 years.
00:42:57.280 Even less than that, the next big entrepreneurs or moguls of industry, that could be 10 years from now.
00:43:07.360 Even less than that.
00:43:09.220 The next politicians, we've seen some young politicians in this world, prime ministers and presidents, as early as 37.
00:43:16.560 And just mentioning the chancellor of Austria, but the investment must be made, not just in them, but also in this reality that surrounds them.
00:43:30.240 This fluid reality, these uncontrollable digital walls in order to present something a bit more truthful because truth exists.
00:43:42.100 It's not an amorphic structure.
00:43:44.980 There is truth.
00:43:46.400 There is truth.
00:44:14.980 There is truth.
00:44:17.540 And therefore, it can be made, it can be made as one by one of the others.
00:44:19.460 I am a patient boy.
00:44:22.420 Lauit, lauit, lauit, lauit, lauit, lauit.
00:44:25.320 My timeess' watersал a trade.
00:44:30.580 Everybody's moving.
00:44:31.900 Everybody's moving.
00:44:32.920 Everybody's moving.
00:44:34.020 Everybodys moving, moving, moving, moving, moving.
00:44:35.340 Please don't leave me to remain
00:44:38.200 In the wind room
00:44:40.140 Out of the night
00:44:41.660 Out of the night
00:44:42.700 Out of the night
00:44:44.220 Out of the night
00:44:45.500 Seeing that side of town
00:44:48.220 Everybody's always down
00:44:50.500 Because they can't get up
00:44:53.900 Come on and get up
00:44:56.240 Come on and get up
00:45:05.340 But I don't satisfy
00:45:20.940 I'm planning a big surprise
00:45:24.940 I'm gonna fight
00:45:26.340 For what I wanna pay
00:45:28.240 And I won't make the same mistake
00:45:32.240 Feeling how much time that way
00:45:35.200 Function
00:45:36.200 Function is the key
00:45:38.980 To the way the world is down
00:45:42.200 I can't get up
00:45:42.980 But I don't have to know
00:45:44.740 I'm gonna fight
00:45:45.720 Seeing that side of town
00:45:48.760 Everybody's always down
00:45:51.020 To the way the world is down
00:45:52.760 Because they can't get up
00:45:54.420 Come on and get up
00:45:56.800 But from the way the world is down
00:45:59.980 Sitting in the waiting room
00:46:22.720 Sitting in the waiting room
00:46:25.640 Down in the waiting room
00:46:28.140 Because they can't get up
00:46:34.140 I don't really want to ask
00:46:35.560 My editors to get mad at me
00:46:36.920 If I don't ask you about last night
00:46:38.580 Which is more recent history
00:46:41.440 So what does it mean?
00:46:45.720 Let me give an interview
00:46:46.620 Of what's happening in the world
00:46:47.780 And I'll talk about it
00:46:48.500 I know you're retired
00:46:49.260 But you lead an important organization
00:46:52.320 What does it mean, number one?
00:46:54.780 Number two, if they're giving indications
00:46:57.520 They're against it
00:46:58.600 But they're sending a team to Egypt
00:47:00.980 To negotiate it
00:47:02.460 So which is it?
00:47:04.940 Okay, so
00:47:06.100 Two sentences about
00:47:07.760 Overall the war
00:47:08.740 And what's going on
00:47:09.540 And then I'll focus on Rafah
00:47:10.960 Israel set very clear goals
00:47:16.360 For this war
00:47:17.080 The complete destruction of Hamas
00:47:19.580 As a governmental and military entity
00:47:21.440 Bringing back all the hostages
00:47:23.380 And making sure that there will never again be
00:47:26.340 A terror army in Gaza
00:47:28.820 So to achieve these goals
00:47:30.860 You basically need to conquer the whole Gaza Strip
00:47:34.160 There is no way to destroy Hamas
00:47:37.780 Without taking over the whole Gaza Strip
00:47:39.560 Now on the 7th of October
00:47:42.280 When the war started
00:47:43.820 Israel took these decisions
00:47:46.000 But in the first two months
00:47:48.320 Three months
00:47:48.900 Israel sent many, many divisions to the north
00:47:52.820 Because we were worried that there will be a full-scale war with Hezbollah
00:47:57.420 And when the IVF started the ground incursion in Gaza
00:48:02.840 It started only with three divisions
00:48:04.400 So these divisions attacked the northern part of the Gaza Strip
00:48:08.180 This was the biggest struggle of Hamas
00:48:10.740 They destroyed the brigade in the north
00:48:13.760 The battalions
00:48:14.880 And Israel has control of the northern part of the Gaza Strip
00:48:19.320 They also moved the society
00:48:21.380 A million people south
00:48:23.260 There are only 200,000 people in the north now
00:48:26.580 Israel is controlling the whole area
00:48:28.940 It's not that there are no terrorists at all
00:48:30.940 When you do a ground incursion
00:48:33.500 There is two steps
00:48:34.420 One is conquering the area
00:48:35.840 Destroying the battalions, the brigades
00:48:38.040 Then the terrorists disperse
00:48:41.000 They are not functioning as units
00:48:42.520 But there are still terrorists around
00:48:44.420 Then you have to clean up the area
00:48:46.580 As I said, this can take years
00:48:48.080 Really cleaning up all the infrastructure
00:48:52.720 Finding all these terrorists
00:48:53.920 It's a process
00:48:54.740 Israel then expanded the attack
00:48:58.020 To Han Yunus
00:48:59.640 We attacked Han Yunus with seven brigades
00:49:03.200 I don't recall in the history of Israel
00:49:05.320 An attack with seven brigades
00:49:08.060 And when we launched this attack
00:49:11.060 A week after the attack started
00:49:13.240 The commander of the division understood
00:49:16.680 That if we are not fighting inside the tunnels
00:49:18.940 We cannot win
00:49:20.940 But they developed techniques
00:49:23.280 Because Israel wasn't planning to fight inside tunnels
00:49:26.440 But the division developed techniques
00:49:29.420 How to fight inside the tunnels
00:49:31.020 How to overcome improvised explosive devices
00:49:33.340 Booby traps, blast doors
00:49:35.180 And terrorists
00:49:36.760 So you say block doors?
00:49:39.700 Blast doors
00:49:40.420 Blast doors
00:49:41.080 Blast doors
00:49:41.300 And the division conquered more than 30 kilometers of tunnels
00:49:46.320 And fought above ground and underground
00:49:49.560 Now this takes time
00:49:50.800 In order to overcome all these challenges
00:49:54.160 These techniques require time
00:49:57.960 To really be able to go into the tunnels
00:50:01.860 At the same time
00:50:02.700 Also the IDF attacked in the central camps
00:50:07.020 We didn't conquer everything there
00:50:09.080 There is the city of Dir el Balak
00:50:11.220 Which we didn't deal with
00:50:12.740 There is like a battalion and a half
00:50:14.440 We didn't destroy yet in the central camps
00:50:16.320 But overall
00:50:17.740 Apart of Rafah
00:50:18.800 Israel is pretty much controlling
00:50:20.840 The old Gaza Strip
00:50:23.100 Now what happened
00:50:24.640 Is that as the army
00:50:27.220 Is going forward
00:50:29.300 Hamas retreated
00:50:31.160 They retreated with the leadership
00:50:33.720 They retreated with the hostages
00:50:36.760 With all the remaining capabilities
00:50:38.900 And all this retreat
00:50:41.520 Is to Rafah
00:50:42.880 Now Rafah is the last jungle
00:50:44.760 That's it
00:50:45.300 They are nowhere to go
00:50:46.920 They are literally with their back against the wall
00:50:49.880 The Egyptians erected the wall there
00:50:51.280 And in Rafah
00:50:53.660 Hamas will be destroyed
00:50:54.860 And this is why
00:50:56.660 There is such a huge pressure for Israel
00:50:59.100 Not to go into Rafah
00:51:00.700 Because for Hamas
00:51:03.060 When Israel will conquer Rafah
00:51:05.280 There will be the end of Hamas
00:51:06.400 As a governmental and military entity
00:51:08.280 Again
00:51:09.200 This doesn't mean
00:51:10.200 There won't be terrorists spread around
00:51:12.060 It will take time to clean the old Gaza Strip
00:51:14.920 But
00:51:15.480 Hamas as an organization
00:51:17.380 In Gaza
00:51:18.500 Will be destroyed
00:51:19.720 When the IDF will go in Rafah
00:51:22.280 Now they are really
00:51:23.740 Fortifying Rafah
00:51:26.560 For a long time
00:51:27.480 You cannot take Rafah
00:51:30.140 Without a full scale attack
00:51:32.400 This is not pinpointed operation
00:51:35.660 This is a very complicated
00:51:38.680 Ground incursion
00:51:42.020 Just like it was in the north
00:51:43.780 In Han Yunis
00:51:44.580 And without conquering Rafah
00:51:48.100 Israel loses the war
00:51:49.040 Without conquering Rafah
00:51:51.920 Hamas will stay alive
00:51:53.480 Will stay connected
00:51:54.520 To Egypt
00:51:56.020 And to the endless amount of weapons
00:51:57.860 Money, technology
00:51:58.720 Everything that's coming from Egypt
00:52:00.580 Through the tunnels
00:52:01.660 And then in no time
00:52:03.360 Will be able to rebuild themselves
00:52:04.900 So all the goals of war
00:52:07.620 Are dependent on Rafah
00:52:09.000 Destroying the leadership of Hamas
00:52:11.000 Reaching all the hostages
00:52:12.880 All of them
00:52:13.500 Even those that are not alive
00:52:16.180 I mean half of the hostages
00:52:17.260 Are not alive
00:52:17.900 And blocking
00:52:22.020 The Egyptian border
00:52:24.220 On the Gazan side
00:52:25.340 In order to stop
00:52:26.360 This endless amount
00:52:27.840 Of smuggling
00:52:28.480 Of capabilities
00:52:30.400 You cannot
00:52:31.160 Assure that there won't be
00:52:34.380 A terror arm in the future
00:52:35.540 Without controlling
00:52:36.360 The border
00:52:37.740 With Egypt
00:52:39.160 And so this is why
00:52:42.180 Israel is saying
00:52:43.100 Nothing will stop us
00:52:45.100 From going to Rafah
00:52:46.460 Even if the US is against it
00:52:48.180 Even if the whole world
00:52:49.100 Is against it
00:52:50.000 In one of the meetings
00:52:52.120 With the Prime Minister
00:52:53.180 The Prime Minister
00:52:53.940 Said to me
00:52:54.960 That he
00:52:55.460 He said to Biden
00:52:56.760 If we need to conquer it
00:52:58.980 With our nails
00:52:59.800 We are going to do it
00:53:02.020 Even if you don't give us
00:53:03.060 Munition
00:53:03.920 If you don't give us weapons
00:53:04.900 We are going in
00:53:05.600 And we are not going to lose the war
00:53:07.580 Well we don't
00:53:08.940 We cannot afford that
00:53:10.020 Then why he sent the team
00:53:11.140 To Egypt
00:53:11.640 So
00:53:13.140 What Israel is saying
00:53:14.860 Israel has to balance
00:53:16.080 Between two goals of war
00:53:17.840 One is bringing the hostages
00:53:19.620 Two
00:53:20.860 Is destroying Hamas
00:53:23.140 So Israel is saying
00:53:26.760 If we have a chance
00:53:28.040 To release
00:53:29.980 The women
00:53:31.380 Elderly
00:53:32.440 In a deal
00:53:34.060 That will be
00:53:35.840 A ceasefire
00:53:36.780 Of a month
00:53:38.220 Of 40 days
00:53:39.220 And following that
00:53:40.980 Will renew the attack
00:53:42.120 From Rafak
00:53:42.740 Looking at checks and balances
00:53:45.280 Is this the thing
00:53:45.920 That we can do
00:53:46.460 Because we understand
00:53:48.560 That if we try
00:53:50.020 To release them militarily
00:53:51.380 The chances
00:53:53.380 Is
00:53:53.740 The chances
00:53:54.540 That they will be killed
00:53:55.460 Before we reach them
00:53:56.380 Are high
00:53:57.220 We know that
00:53:57.780 Hostage situation
00:53:59.160 Is always very
00:53:59.920 Very complicated
00:54:00.760 And the chances
00:54:01.480 To release people
00:54:03.120 In a hostage situation
00:54:04.440 Is not
00:54:05.280 It's not easy
00:54:06.180 Certainly not
00:54:07.560 In such a complex
00:54:08.560 War zone
00:54:10.560 So if we have a chance
00:54:11.960 To get half
00:54:12.900 Of the hostages
00:54:14.780 That are actually alive
00:54:15.920 Because 33 hostages
00:54:18.120 Is about half
00:54:18.880 Of the people
00:54:19.440 Who are alive
00:54:20.060 And the payment
00:54:22.660 Will be
00:54:23.240 40 days of ceasefire
00:54:25.100 It's a risk
00:54:27.100 But
00:54:28.240 It can be done
00:54:30.380 But Hamas
00:54:32.100 They don't want to
00:54:34.320 Release all the women
00:54:35.100 And then
00:54:36.520 Just
00:54:39.320 Wait for
00:54:41.000 There is more
00:54:41.740 Before they are destroyed
00:54:42.560 They want
00:54:43.400 A complete stop
00:54:44.820 Of the war
00:54:45.320 And Israel is not
00:54:46.200 Going to give them
00:54:46.840 This satisfaction
00:54:48.620 So this is
00:54:50.860 The discussion
00:54:51.480 Now
00:54:51.900 We have been
00:54:54.740 Negotiating
00:54:55.300 With Hamas
00:54:55.840 Three months
00:54:56.300 They constantly
00:54:58.480 Completely rejected
00:54:59.600 The deal
00:55:00.080 They all
00:55:01.800 The time
00:55:02.420 Said
00:55:02.860 We are not
00:55:03.500 Going to agree
00:55:04.420 To a deal
00:55:04.900 Without permanent
00:55:06.100 Stop
00:55:07.380 Of the war
00:55:08.840 Which basically
00:55:09.480 Means Israel
00:55:10.240 Loses the war
00:55:11.040 And even now
00:55:13.380 It doesn't seem
00:55:15.480 That their position
00:55:17.140 Changed
00:55:17.720 But
00:55:18.240 We understand
00:55:20.080 That the only
00:55:21.000 Chance
00:55:22.600 That their position
00:55:23.900 Will really change
00:55:24.900 Is if they are
00:55:25.800 Existentially threatened
00:55:26.840 I mean
00:55:27.900 When Israel
00:55:28.560 Goes now
00:55:29.020 Into Rafa
00:55:29.620 And they will feel
00:55:30.580 That there will be
00:55:31.660 A moment
00:55:32.000 Where they might
00:55:32.780 Actually be destroyed
00:55:33.780 Then they might
00:55:35.620 Even say
00:55:36.140 You know what
00:55:36.620 Take all of them
00:55:37.840 You know
00:55:38.240 Take all those
00:55:38.740 We want to go out
00:55:39.760 Let us go out
00:55:40.860 To the Sinai Peninsula
00:55:42.200 And stay alive
00:55:43.580 I mean
00:55:43.860 We don't know
00:55:44.500 Because they are
00:55:46.200 Very ideological
00:55:46.920 We don't really know
00:55:48.380 Whether they are
00:55:49.420 Going to behave
00:55:50.340 Like martyres
00:55:51.220 Or whether
00:55:52.880 They really care
00:55:53.580 About their life
00:55:54.380 And at a certain point
00:55:55.300 They will ask
00:55:55.960 For
00:55:56.420 You know
00:55:58.080 In order to stay alive
00:55:59.540 To be allowed
00:56:00.400 To go
00:56:00.900 A little bit
00:56:01.340 Sinwar
00:56:01.780 What if Sinwar
00:56:02.480 Says
00:56:02.840 Leave me alive
00:56:03.640 And you can
00:56:04.040 Take your hostages
00:56:04.940 Would they do that
00:56:05.620 We'll do that
00:56:06.140 We'll kill him later
00:56:07.540 Yeah
00:56:08.200 Yeah
00:56:09.120 Okay
00:56:10.800 But yes
00:56:11.360 Of course
00:56:11.760 I mean
00:56:12.100 If he says
00:56:12.840 Okay
00:56:13.060 I'll give you
00:56:14.060 All the hostages
00:56:14.820 Let me get out
00:56:15.940 Alive from Gaza
00:56:16.760 Of course
00:56:17.400 We'll do that
00:56:17.940 Okay
00:56:18.940 Thank you
00:56:19.480 I mean
00:56:19.780 This is exactly
00:56:20.740 The issue
00:56:21.180 Of balancing
00:56:21.840 Between
00:56:23.000 The responsibility
00:56:25.600 Of the state
00:56:26.980 Of Israel
00:56:27.400 To bring back
00:56:28.940 All the hostages
00:56:30.080 And the responsibility
00:56:32.580 To secure
00:56:33.640 Israel
00:56:34.360 And make sure
00:56:36.320 That there is
00:56:37.280 No terror army
00:56:38.060 In Gaza anymore
00:56:40.640 Now
00:56:41.700 I told you
00:56:43.340 The story of Gaza
00:56:44.420 And what it means
00:56:46.760 Not having
00:56:48.500 Freedom of operation
00:56:49.520 Inside the cities
00:56:50.480 And what it means
00:56:52.120 Not controlling
00:56:52.760 The Egyptian border
00:56:53.600 So these two things
00:56:55.640 Need to happen
00:56:56.340 We cannot in the future
00:56:57.900 Have a reality
00:56:58.620 Where the Egyptian border
00:57:01.880 Is not under Israeli control
00:57:03.240 And we cannot have a reality
00:57:04.380 Where Israel
00:57:05.040 Is not
00:57:05.480 Does not enjoy
00:57:07.000 Full freedom of operation
00:57:08.200 In all the cities
00:57:08.980 To continue
00:57:09.800 Degregating
00:57:12.260 The terror
00:57:13.000 Infrastructure
00:57:14.220 For years
00:57:14.900 If we are not going
00:57:17.380 To do
00:57:17.900 A process
00:57:19.380 Of
00:57:19.820 De-nazification
00:57:22.240 Of this society
00:57:23.080 Then
00:57:25.340 Then
00:57:25.580 Israel's presence
00:57:27.840 Might be forever
00:57:30.720 There is the need
00:57:35.500 Seriously
00:57:36.020 To think about
00:57:37.000 How we deal
00:57:37.980 With the education
00:57:38.880 Not only there
00:57:41.800 By the way
00:57:42.180 Also in the cities
00:57:43.240 In the Judean Samaria
00:57:44.340 And without that
00:57:47.020 As we see
00:57:49.140 In Judean Samaria
00:57:49.900 No matter how much
00:57:50.640 We operate
00:57:51.180 They keep producing terror
00:57:53.500 Because the whole education system
00:57:55.400 Supports terror
00:57:56.660 The Palestinian authority
00:57:58.540 Is terrible
00:57:59.100 Now
00:57:59.520 Gaza will be an interesting experiment
00:58:03.300 Because Israel is saying
00:58:04.900 The day after Hamas
00:58:06.940 And there is no day after
00:58:08.160 If it's not the day after Hamas
00:58:10.820 The day after starts
00:58:13.180 After there is no Hamas
00:58:14.460 So the day after Hamas
00:58:16.820 Israel is saying
00:58:17.920 We are not going to have Hamas
00:58:19.140 We are not going to have
00:58:20.620 Palestinian Islamic Jihad
00:58:21.920 And also we are not going to have
00:58:23.560 The Palestinian authority
00:58:24.520 Because they are corrupt
00:58:25.480 They pay billions for terrorists
00:58:27.320 They incite
00:58:28.420 They build all this terror infrastructure
00:58:30.480 To begin with
00:58:31.540 And so what is the solution
00:58:34.840 So Israel is embracing
00:58:37.060 One of the solutions
00:58:39.480 We suggested
00:58:40.260 In the book
00:58:41.380 I wrote in May
00:58:43.720 Which is
00:58:46.940 Building local clan leadership
00:58:51.520 The Arab society
00:58:53.300 Is building clans
00:58:54.280 All the cities
00:58:54.940 Even Israeli Arab cities
00:58:56.120 Are managed by clans
00:58:57.620 And this is a model
00:58:59.620 Very similar to
00:59:00.960 The Emirates
00:59:02.480 Dubai, Abu Dhabi
00:59:04.340 These are city states
00:59:05.520 Run by clans
00:59:06.860 It's very successful
00:59:08.100 Because it adheres to
00:59:09.860 The way the society is built
00:59:12.360 And so we might see
00:59:15.260 Clans of Gaza
00:59:16.200 Clans of Rafah
00:59:17.560 Clans of Hanunes
00:59:19.060 Managing local management
00:59:21.400 Because Israel is not interesting
00:59:23.060 To manage everyday life
00:59:24.240 In the cities
00:59:25.440 We want these municipalities
00:59:27.560 To function
00:59:28.480 And if this model
00:59:32.000 Will be successful
00:59:32.880 It might be copied also
00:59:34.380 To Judea and Samaria
00:59:36.200 In the future
00:59:36.700 And of course
00:59:39.760 Our ideas
00:59:40.820 Are very different
00:59:42.480 From the current
00:59:43.940 American administration
00:59:45.140 We still stuck
00:59:46.280 With the idea
00:59:47.060 Of a full retreat
00:59:48.620 Of Israel
00:59:49.140 From Judea and Samaria
00:59:50.280 And creating
00:59:52.260 A two-state solution
00:59:53.460 Creating terms
00:59:56.560 That basically mean
00:59:57.540 The complete destruction
00:59:58.480 Of the state of Israel
00:59:59.400 Israel cannot live
01:00:00.700 In this reality
01:00:01.520 The protests
01:00:04.920 Are happening in America
01:00:06.100 It's creating pressure
01:00:07.540 In an election
01:00:08.220 Here on Biden
01:00:09.220 Right
01:00:10.020 He could lose an election
01:00:11.100 Because of these protests
01:00:12.340 He's saying to Netanyahu
01:00:14.460 You've got to wrap this up
01:00:15.720 Or I'm going to lose my job
01:00:16.940 Yeah
01:00:17.780 What's the reality
01:00:19.800 Of that in Israel
01:00:20.500 Is that a consideration
01:00:21.360 Basically saying to Israel
01:00:22.880 You need to lose the world
01:00:23.800 Because they have elections
01:00:24.740 It's not going to happen
01:00:26.220 We're not going to lose the world
01:00:27.500 And I think that
01:00:29.760 Even politically speaking
01:00:31.060 I think he's doing
01:00:31.740 A huge mistake
01:00:32.480 80% of the American society
01:00:36.480 Supports Israel
01:00:37.260 And he's trying
01:00:40.120 To win some voices
01:00:41.660 While disregarding
01:00:43.860 The vast majority
01:00:44.620 Of the American society
01:00:46.660 And I'm not sure
01:00:49.140 This is going to work for him
01:00:50.320 The idea of saying
01:00:54.820 You know
01:00:55.620 We need a ceasefire
01:00:56.840 Stop the war
01:00:58.060 And then we'll do a ceasefire
01:00:59.640 Also in the north
01:01:00.620 And then we'll have a deal
01:01:02.480 With Saudi Arabia
01:01:03.800 It sounds nice
01:01:05.920 But it means
01:01:06.820 Israel is going to lose the war
01:01:08.480 It means Hamas
01:01:09.720 Is going to rebuild itself
01:01:10.860 In a few months
01:01:11.740 And we're going back
01:01:12.600 To the 6th of October
01:01:16.440 It means that our citizens
01:01:18.580 In the north
01:01:19.180 Cannot go back home
01:01:20.140 Because Hezbollah
01:01:21.240 Will remain on the border
01:01:25.060 Or maybe we'll
01:01:26.440 Retreat 10 kilometers
01:01:27.620 Which is not enough
01:01:28.580 And it's not serious
01:01:29.480 And it's obviously
01:01:30.380 Not going to last
01:01:31.400 And this is why
01:01:35.120 Israel is saying
01:01:36.520 To Biden
01:01:37.500 This is not going to happen
01:01:46.440 Life is such a drag
01:02:04.900 And they can do it better
01:02:06.140 Let them take you miles from home
01:02:08.260 Tonight
01:02:08.860 If life is such a drag
01:02:10.360 And they can do it better
01:02:11.600 Let them take you miles from home
01:02:13.740 You say that you care
01:02:15.140 For the people you bear
01:02:16.640 Tell them what you want to do
01:02:18.240 Tell them what you want to do
01:02:19.600 Love or revenge
01:02:20.960 To pay for that sense
01:02:22.460 Tell them what you want to do
01:02:23.860 Tell them what the hell you chose
01:02:25.740 Let them take you from your good life
01:02:29.940 Why did you
01:02:31.180 Let them take you from your good life
01:02:35.900 If life is such a drag
01:02:38.540 And this will make it better
01:02:39.780 Let them take you miles from home
01:02:41.880 Tonight
01:02:42.460 But daddy isn't there
01:02:43.980 And mommy doesn't care
01:02:45.300 Let them take you miles from home
01:02:47.380 They smile to a stare
01:02:48.900 Now you too well
01:02:50.080 Tell them what you want to do
01:02:51.840 Tell them what you want to do
01:02:53.260 Rich little girl
01:02:54.660 Is taking a stand
01:02:56.160 Tell them what you want to do
01:02:57.520 Tell them what the hell you chose
01:02:59.420 So let them take you from your good life
01:03:03.720 Why did you
01:03:04.820 Let them take you from your good life
01:03:08.980 Is it better to change all the clothes that you wear
01:03:12.940 To pick up a gun and put your face in the air
01:03:15.880 Because now they see reality and what's really out there
01:03:18.900 Tell them what you want to do
01:03:20.440 Tell them what you want to do
01:03:22.440 In a burned down squad in the summer
01:03:25.220 Lovers dead
01:03:27.940 Liars way
01:03:29.340 Wanted to settle
01:03:30.900 A little girl on the move
01:03:33.540 In the end you'll always choose
01:03:37.560 Silver spoon
01:03:39.540 It's what's best for you
01:03:44.940 So tell them what you chose
01:04:06.940 Let them take you from your good life
01:04:10.940 Why didn't you
01:04:12.940 Let them take you from your good life
01:04:17.160 Why didn't you
01:04:18.620 Let them take you from your good life
01:04:22.860 Why didn't you
01:04:24.280 Let them take you from your good life
01:04:28.520 Why didn't you
01:04:29.860 This is CFRA Live
01:04:36.040 Sunday Political Panel
01:04:37.820 And welcome back
01:04:40.760 Well good morning
01:04:41.320 If you're just joining us
01:04:42.880 Thanks for joining us on this Sunday morning
01:04:44.540 It is time for our Sunday Political Panel
01:04:46.440 Joining us is Tasha Carradine
01:04:47.880 Political columnist for the National Post
01:04:49.600 Author, writer for GZERO Media
01:04:51.220 And of course a mother herself
01:04:53.400 Tasha, happy Mother's Day
01:04:54.560 Oh, that's intentional
01:04:59.440 Yeah, she said she heard the line dropped for her
01:05:02.960 Oh, here we go
01:05:03.920 Elsie's on it
01:05:05.260 Warren, good morning, how are you?
01:05:07.360 Morning, man, how are you doing?
01:05:08.740 Not too bad
01:05:09.380 Warren Kinsella is a strategist and post-media columnist
01:05:11.460 He is here on the phone
01:05:12.260 And Carl Belanger is a strategist
01:05:14.140 President, I should say
01:05:15.240 At Traction Strategies
01:05:16.340 Carl, good morning
01:05:17.360 Good morning
01:05:18.160 We're going to get Tasha back on the line there
01:05:20.200 But we'll kick this one off
01:05:21.600 Because there's a number of different things
01:05:22.940 I kind of want to address on this one
01:05:24.200 But Canada abstains here for a UN membership
01:05:27.280 For a Palestinian state here
01:05:29.000 You know, we are with Switzerland and the UK on this
01:05:32.440 But just kind of the latest here
01:05:33.760 We heard Anthony Housefather come out on this a couple of times this week
01:05:37.340 Read a story that he almost left caucus
01:05:39.360 Over the Liberals' kind of handling of this overall issue
01:05:42.240 We've got university protests happening
01:05:45.960 Warren, let's just start with you
01:05:47.640 Because I know you just returned from Israel as well
01:05:49.780 Is this something that has the potential, do you think
01:05:53.240 To wreck the Liberal caucus here?
01:05:56.040 It's wrecking lots of caucuses
01:05:59.820 You know, I'm hearing about major firms on Bay Street
01:06:03.680 That are split, you know, with younger partners
01:06:06.980 Demanding that, you know, somebody say something about Palestine
01:06:10.020 And the older ones saying, no, you know, we're not here to do that
01:06:14.580 It's happening in newsrooms, law firms, corporations
01:06:18.520 You know, this split is everywhere
01:06:21.060 So I guess, you know, there's company in misery
01:06:24.280 Or misery loves company or something like that
01:06:26.860 But yeah, I was in Israel for a week
01:06:30.020 I went to all the sad places
01:06:33.980 I went to the kibbutz
01:06:36.340 I spoke to victims, spoke to families
01:06:39.820 Spoke to people who had buried children
01:06:42.800 Who had lost children, who were kidnapped
01:06:46.620 I saw terrible things
01:06:49.700 You know, when you read about it, it's one thing
01:06:51.660 When you see it with your own eyes
01:06:53.700 You understand it better
01:06:55.060 And what I came to understand
01:06:56.520 Was Israel feels completely
01:06:59.740 And totally and utterly alone in the world
01:07:03.020 And, you know, there's all kinds of factors for that
01:07:07.640 And some of it is self-inflicted
01:07:09.540 By the Netanyahu government
01:07:11.800 But they feel alone
01:07:13.880 And so they watch these votes
01:07:15.760 From afar
01:07:17.140 They watch, you know, people calling for martyrdom
01:07:20.740 On Canadian campuses
01:07:22.600 And Hamas logos being, you know, projected
01:07:26.760 On the side of building walls
01:07:28.540 At the University of Toronto
01:07:29.980 And they feel like we've abandoned them
01:07:32.480 That we're not an ally
01:07:33.660 And that's how they feel
01:07:36.080 About the Americans and the Europeans
01:07:37.520 They just feel they're lost and alone
01:07:41.040 And I don't think that's obviously good for them
01:07:44.000 And I don't think it's good for us either
01:07:45.980 And I know you've written about this
01:07:47.940 With some, you took some photos as well
01:07:49.740 Of your trip up at the Toronto Sun
01:07:51.360 And Post Media
01:07:52.240 If people wanted to read a little bit more
01:07:53.740 About that as well
01:07:54.500 But, Carly, in terms of some of the political aspects
01:07:57.660 Like I said, there's a lot of different things
01:07:59.180 Kind of going on this week
01:08:00.260 But do you think this has the potential
01:08:02.440 To, you know, hurt the Liberal caucus here
01:08:05.040 As I mentioned, you know, Anthony Howe's father
01:08:06.540 Has been at the front of this
01:08:07.480 But such a divisive issue
01:08:09.260 Well, it is
01:08:11.280 And Warren is right
01:08:12.540 It's dividing a lot of different entities
01:08:16.980 And, you know, I could add to the list
01:08:18.740 The environmental NGOs
01:08:20.260 You know, and all kinds of other NGOs
01:08:22.500 Who are not in the business
01:08:24.240 Of talking about the Middle East
01:08:26.160 But somehow feel compelled
01:08:28.200 Or are under pressure to talk about it
01:08:30.540 When it's not there
01:08:31.740 At the core of their business
01:08:33.240 And the Liberal caucus, to be honest
01:08:35.940 I mean, it has been divided on this for quite some time
01:08:38.380 And to be fair
01:08:40.720 I don't think that you've seen Anthony Howe's father
01:08:46.940 Talk about it
01:08:48.600 And he mused about maybe leaving the caucus
01:08:51.180 But he hasn't
01:08:52.020 And I don't think you will see that escalate further
01:08:57.060 To be honest
01:08:58.240 I think that the Liberals, you know
01:09:00.680 In as much as it feels improvised at times
01:09:03.600 And all over the place at times
01:09:05.120 I think they're managing it as best as they can
01:09:08.800 Under circumstances
01:09:10.240 And Tasha Carradine here
01:09:12.560 And Tasha, sorry I dropped on the line there
01:09:14.360 But I wanted to wish you a happy Mother's Day
01:09:16.060 But when I brought you on the line as well
01:09:17.700 I know a little bit of a somber topic here
01:09:20.060 But just in general
01:09:20.960 When we're talking about the Liberals' kind of handling of this
01:09:23.160 As Carl mentioned
01:09:24.620 You know, he doesn't think that Anthony Howe's father
01:09:26.700 Is necessarily going to leave
01:09:27.980 Is this a healthy amount of debate going on in caucus
01:09:30.980 Or could this potentially be trouble?
01:09:32.420 Well, I mean
01:09:34.540 I think that it's
01:09:36.520 I think it's potentially trouble in the sense
01:09:39.500 The larger sense
01:09:40.320 Like that Warren was saying
01:09:41.300 I think within the Liberal Party
01:09:42.380 Anthony Howe's father has been the most vocal
01:09:45.220 And pretty much the only member that I've heard
01:09:47.380 Really talk about this
01:09:48.760 On a personal level
01:09:50.180 And on a political level as well
01:09:52.700 Because the larger geopolitical implications of this
01:09:55.180 Everyone, you know
01:09:56.140 Everyone focuses on what's happening in their backyard
01:09:58.520 And their local university, etc
01:10:01.340 And what do we do about this
01:10:03.140 You have to look at the bigger picture
01:10:05.160 And the bigger picture is
01:10:06.560 Sowing division
01:10:07.600 Exactly as Warren said
01:10:09.000 Everyone's divided over this
01:10:10.840 And it's constantly in our faith
01:10:12.380 We've got to talk about it
01:10:13.560 It's an issue
01:10:14.200 It's here
01:10:14.960 It's here
01:10:15.340 Even though it isn't the issue
01:10:17.420 For 95% even more of people
01:10:20.400 It's not their issue
01:10:22.240 But it is being pushed on us
01:10:24.040 To sow that division
01:10:25.240 And why?
01:10:26.540 Because powers behind this
01:10:28.560 Like Iran, for example
01:10:29.900 Have a vested interest
01:10:31.340 In sowing division in the West
01:10:33.260 And turning people against each other
01:10:35.060 That is the oldest trick in the book
01:10:37.060 It's the trick China uses
01:10:38.740 In terms of its foreign ambitions
01:10:41.760 You don't need to fight your enemy at all
01:10:44.160 Just get them to fight each other
01:10:45.340 And this is exactly
01:10:46.260 This is a perfect element
01:10:48.300 Or situation
01:10:49.560 To cause that division
01:10:51.340 On a profound level
01:10:52.400 And to keep it going
01:10:53.700 All these protests
01:10:54.480 That keep going
01:10:55.340 Keep going
01:10:56.000 Constantly keeping it there
01:10:58.400 In our faith now
01:10:59.300 It's been a very long time
01:11:00.600 Since October 7th
01:11:02.120 So you have to
01:11:03.360 You have to take a step back
01:11:04.240 And look at that
01:11:04.600 And go
01:11:04.780 What are people trying to do here
01:11:06.060 On a larger scale
01:11:07.000 And don't fall for it
01:11:07.940 And I think Canada fell for it
01:11:09.260 At the UN
01:11:10.120 I think we fell for it
01:11:11.120 And I think the Liberal Party
01:11:12.060 Has fallen for it
01:11:12.840 I don't know the Conservatives
01:11:13.720 Have as much
01:11:15.220 You know
01:11:16.880 They are standing more with Israel
01:11:18.720 But again
01:11:19.160 Still no one's really focusing
01:11:20.320 On the bigger picture
01:11:21.080 And saying to people
01:11:21.920 Don't be fooled by this
01:11:23.360 Because there's something else here
01:11:24.700 It's not just
01:11:25.500 The local stuff
01:11:26.680 It's a big picture
01:11:27.680 And just to follow up on that
01:11:29.520 Tasha
01:11:29.740 Because we have seen
01:11:30.500 Joe Biden pretty nimble
01:11:32.320 On this in a sense
01:11:33.280 Of not
01:11:33.800 I guess unwilling
01:11:35.340 To criticize both sides
01:11:36.920 When it seems to be needed
01:11:38.720 At this point
01:11:39.300 Do you think Canada
01:11:40.300 Needs to fall into
01:11:41.100 Kind of more of that position
01:11:42.540 As opposed to
01:11:43.220 Kind of maybe playing it
01:11:44.020 A little more safe
01:11:44.700 Well yeah
01:11:46.160 I think we have
01:11:46.820 No I think we have to look
01:11:48.020 And our leaders have to say
01:11:50.340 Let's look at
01:11:51.540 What's really happening here
01:11:52.860 And yes
01:11:53.420 There's this particular conflict
01:11:54.740 And yes
01:11:55.200 The Netanyahu government
01:11:56.180 Has done a whole host
01:11:57.620 Of bad things
01:11:58.480 And has also used this conflict
01:11:59.860 For their own purposes
01:12:00.580 Over the last decade
01:12:01.760 With Hamas
01:12:02.480 To keep
01:12:03.400 You know
01:12:04.020 Their coalition
01:12:04.760 Of very right wing people
01:12:06.200 In power
01:12:06.780 In Israel
01:12:07.600 But that polarity
01:12:09.520 Is now being used
01:12:10.440 By other players
01:12:12.020 And I think
01:12:12.900 Calling for calm
01:12:13.960 And calling for rational
01:12:15.180 You know
01:12:15.920 Take a step back people
01:12:17.700 That
01:12:18.020 No one's saying that
01:12:19.080 And that's what our leaders
01:12:19.960 Need to do
01:12:20.480 They need to say
01:12:21.020 You know what
01:12:21.540 No more of this on campus
01:12:23.180 Let's calm the hell down
01:12:25.420 And let the people
01:12:27.000 Who are engaged
01:12:27.500 In this conflict
01:12:28.080 Work it out
01:12:28.760 Because they are the ones
01:12:29.940 And stand with our ally
01:12:31.000 Yes
01:12:31.320 Israel is our ally
01:12:32.240 It's been our ally
01:12:32.940 For decades
01:12:33.660 And Hamas
01:12:35.500 Is not Palestine
01:12:36.320 People have to remember that too
01:12:37.520 It is not Palestine
01:12:38.600 Hamas is Iran's proxy
01:12:40.420 So who are you really
01:12:41.600 Fighting for here
01:12:42.400 You're fighting for Iran
01:12:43.420 If you're saying
01:12:43.940 That you want
01:12:44.500 You know
01:12:45.200 Palestine river to the sea
01:12:46.700 That's what they want
01:12:47.760 Because I walk
01:13:05.520 And I walk
01:13:07.260 And I talk
01:13:09.480 And I talk
01:13:11.460 I swear
01:13:13.760 To find
01:13:33.300 Another one.
01:14:03.300 I walk, and I talk, and I talk
01:14:09.460 I swear, until I've found my love
01:14:16.420 I will never, I will never, I will never, I will never, I will never, I will never, I will never go
01:14:33.300 Abelabo, Abelabo, Abelabo...