00:22:06.460and we're back and we're back with my buddy charles adler the pride of winnipeg pride of
00:22:24.900canada um great to hear your voice my friend so you were telling me about an adam sorkin
00:22:31.220piece about politics i guess he's a tv guy he's an entertainment guy but he's writing about
00:22:37.300politics what did he say yeah so technically he's a playwright this is the 25th anniversary of west
00:22:42.180wing one of the most uh successful shows ever and certainly the most politically uh most successful
00:22:46.860political american show ever so aaron sorkin the great uh playwright uh in the new york times uh is
00:22:53.980writing an op-ed and i'm just gonna you know give you the the cole's notes whereas our american
00:22:58.540friends like to say the cliff notes version he feels that the best possible person for the
00:23:04.100democrats to nominate at the convention uh coming up uh next month in in chicago is mitt romney
00:23:12.340and before people tune out they go oh mitt romney is a republican blah blah blah blah blah yes that's
00:23:18.700the point mitt romney is a republican who would peel off enough let's just call them normal
00:23:24.760traditional traditional mainstream republican voters from trump that it would make the democrats look
00:23:30.780like the party of unification donald trump talked a big game about doing a unifying a rally speech or
00:23:36.580unifying convention speech of course it was no more unifying than any of his other speeches he has no
00:23:41.800fun being a mr unity so sorkin believes obviously if he's recommending romney that democrats are in a
00:23:49.480desperate position not just because joe biden is aging blah blah blah blah blah blah but he does
00:23:56.160think no matter who replaces joe biden the republicans now are in the driver's seat and a
00:24:02.080republican a traditional republican like mitt romney would peel off enough trump votes to win the
00:24:08.500presidency because sorkin keeps insisting as a lot of people do the objective here is not to have a
00:24:14.400traditional liberal the tradition of a traditional democrat blah blah blah blah blah the number one
00:24:20.840objective is to save democracy from donald trump now the party the democratic party looks anything but
00:24:29.800unified these days you've got no less than nancy pelosi all but sticking the knife in joe biden you've
00:24:37.080got obama apparently behind the scenes saying it's all over everybody out of the pool let's go joe
00:24:43.920what do you think the impact my view i talked about in cfra this morning is you know i'm used to
00:24:50.020working to for an older guy who gets underestimated who has a poor grasp of the english language um
00:24:56.380you know you push those guys like that too hard they're going to push back biden seems to be pushing
00:25:02.040back and saying to hell with you guys you're the elites who underestimated me so many times i'm going
00:25:07.300to prove you wrong again what do you think he's going to do so i don't like to talk about the nuts
00:25:11.680and bolts of politics but i kind of have to hear and i have to get you into this conversation because
00:25:17.540you're the perfect person to ask you have volunteered for several democrats including
00:25:22.080hillary clinton and joe biden at the moment volunteerism is down and let me just give you
00:25:29.440a statistic and i don't want to overwhelm any podcast with stats i can't stand people who do but
00:25:34.060i've got to do it here the people who are most likely to volunteer for democrats no matter who
00:25:41.400they are are black women african american women as far as support from african women goes and they
00:25:50.120are the ones who are the they're the demographic most supportive of the democrats 90 of them turn out
00:25:56.680okay 90 of black women vote in u.s elections no other no other no other demographic is is is even
00:26:04.320close to that among african american women support for joe biden is now down 30 and as far as volunteering
00:26:12.680is concerned all of the districts in the united states whether they're heavily democratic or not
00:26:18.460all of them are reporting that it is extremely tough to get people to volunteer now let's talk about
00:26:25.840the money it's becoming virtually impossible to get any of the big donors to give because all of
00:26:31.400them are saying and unless you replace joe biden we are not giving you a penny not only are we not
00:26:36.320giving you a penny for the presidential campaign we're not giving you money for the district for the
00:26:41.220congressional districts for the house of reps campaigns or the senate campaigns so i know this
00:26:47.920isn't a sexy topic warren but you've been there you've run war rooms you've run campaigns what happens
00:26:53.980when you're out of volunteers and out of money well you and i have talked about this on your show
00:27:00.720for many years and you know one of the ways actually the way to measure somebody's authority to measure
00:27:07.660their power to measure their staying power is what i call the three p's which is you know the polls
00:27:14.720the popular the your popularity in the polls the party and people so you know i worked with a lot of
00:27:25.100african-american women for hillary in 2016 and for joe you know four years later and you're absolutely
00:27:32.860right you know msnbc i think it's 31 is the drop among african-american women and joe cannot win
00:27:40.220no democrat can win without that constituency so the people things problem in the polls like
00:27:46.760joe was in trouble before the debate in swing states you know people if they look at you know
00:27:53.540the national numbers they go oh it's not that bad but it actually is that bad in the states that
00:27:58.860biden needs to win again all of those swing states that he won last time he's losing in now
00:28:04.960and then within the party you've got people like pelosi and obama and others saying you gotta go
00:28:11.880and that's had a corresponding effect on morale and so on so you're absolutely right like on the three p's
00:28:18.280like he's losing and my concern is now you know dowd wrote about it in the times this morning
00:28:25.160um he's doing the one thing he swore he never would do which is put his own ego and his own interests
00:28:32.620ahead of that of america and ahead of the democratic party and you know handing a victory to that son
00:28:39.480of a bitch um donald trump well warren you know as well as i do when you're out of volunteers and
00:28:45.220you're out of money then you have you're out of a get out the vote operation joe biden has more
00:28:50.260experience in politics than anyone at some point he's going to have a look at those numbers it might
00:28:55.240be you know today tomorrow the next day whatever but he's going to look at them and i think i think
00:29:00.580he'll get out because i just don't think he wants to go to a democratic convention where he might and
00:29:06.440folks turn turn turn up the sound right now he doesn't want to go to a democratic convention where
00:29:13.000he will be booed and i'm deadly serious that's never happened in the history of conventions where
00:29:19.800the nominee is booed he will get booed precisely because of what you've just said people will say to
00:29:28.400themselves and out loud that he is putting himself ahead of the party and ahead of the country
00:29:33.600meanwhile we got the republicans so trump you know i think we're all agreed we wanted him defeated at
00:29:40.760the ballot box not with a bullet he's brought on a guy who called him america's hitler called him
00:29:47.380reprehensible you know said he himself jd vance was a never trumper now he's the vice presidential
00:29:53.800candidate and like everybody's okay with it like it's just it's madness how the republicans seem to
00:30:00.680be on in this winning streak and in the casino of politics and biden just can't win you know he's
00:30:07.340coming up snake eyes all the time can you imagine what happens if they do get an articulate strong
00:30:12.640younger more vigorous democratic candidate and they're debating donald trump can you imagine what
00:30:18.360happens when that candidate that democratic nominee presidential nominee looks trump in the eye and
00:30:25.160says sir i'm not calling you hitler your vice presidential running mate is ouch ouch that's a good
00:30:32.800one that's a good one well i you know it feels like it's her it feels like it's kamala and you know who
00:30:39.140by the way everybody she went to high school in the town where charles and i came from and where we
00:30:45.960worked and lived montreal so like big canadian connection i can see her doing that like she
00:30:51.900was the statewide she won every part of california not all of california is democratic and was the
00:30:58.640the lead prosecutor i can see her doing that swinging on him and saying you back off pal you know we've
00:31:05.980had enough of your garbage and you know and i agree with jd vance or whatever but yeah i think
00:31:11.480you know i think she'd be terrific well i'll tell you something when kamala harris i mean you know
00:31:16.820they've nailed her in several videos for her her laugh her laugh is a a bit odd she has you know
00:31:24.000made some statements where she's trying to be profound and it doesn't quite land land so in the
00:31:29.620last few years she's done some experimenting with getting beyond kamala harris the successful
00:31:35.200california attorney general and prosecutor i think she can drop all that stuff really quickly and
00:31:41.420focus on what she needs to do if she's a candidate and to prosecute donald trump and i'm telling you
00:31:47.040there is no better person in the land right now as far as prosecuting a case she is disciplined
00:31:54.420she is prepared and most important she is something that neither joe biden or donald trump have been in
00:32:00.640years kamala harris is coherent yeah no she's uh you know a terrific candidate and uh i'd be happy to
00:32:08.880volunteer for her but getting back to your first point i i just i noticed i wasn't reaching out to
00:32:15.120the democrats to help out joe this time and i guess my subconscious was telling me something final thing
00:32:21.580i wanted to raise with you uh you and i have got friends in all the parties you know tories liberals
00:32:28.720new democrats and enemies and enemies and enemies but you know there's some there's some good people
00:32:34.980there yeah mark miller and his staff right who didn't sign on for this woke up one morning this
00:32:42.660week to find their constituency office in montreal vandalized doesn't quite capture it people should
00:32:49.240go seek out the pictures of mark miller's office he's the immigration minister of justin trudeau
00:32:53.920and very close to trudeau was in trudeau's wedding party like shamus or reagan and others
00:32:59.220and charles on the sides of that writing office they painted the inverted red triangle which is the
00:33:06.100way that hamas indicates their intended victims it's the way they say we are going to kill you
00:33:12.660i believe that this trudeau cabinet minister received a direct and manifest death threat this week
00:33:19.520and people are just kind of shrugging about it and saying oh it's just vandalism like i i to me it
00:33:26.420feels like someone's going to get killed the way this stuff is going so justin trudeau doesn't hire
00:33:32.560warren kinsella uh for speech writing maybe he should but let's just do this the way we can do it theater
00:33:39.500the mind on the podcast that warren kinsella is writing two or three lines for justin trudeau to make
00:33:47.400the point that needs to be made on rising anti-semitism in this country what would you have
00:33:53.600canada's prime minister say this is not us this is not who we are but this is who are we are becoming
00:34:02.500we are standing on the edge of the abyss that is nietzsche said when you look into the abyss too long
00:34:10.080it looks into you we are at risk of losing ourselves we are at risk of losing our soul
00:34:16.180not just some politicians being targeted not just some politicians being criticized as they should
00:34:22.060in a democracy we're at risk of losing ourselves not just our jewish brothers and sisters and their
00:34:28.960kids we are going to lose who we are as a country if we do not say no to this and stop it now and i'm
00:34:35.940going to stop it now and here's how excellent uh warren uh no one thinks that i'm a muslim and i'm
00:34:44.340not but i do believe that one of the reasons why uh justin trudeau and the liberals have been soft on
00:34:52.400all this is because of their sensitivity uh to the muslim vote i don't believe that muslims require
00:34:59.940this country to be anti-semitic to be comfortable here i also know absolutely that hamas kills
00:35:08.34010 times as many muslims as they do jews and a hundred times more muslims get killed because of
00:35:16.100hamas activity than do jews so as far as the muslim community is concerned don't tell me that you've got
00:35:23.800to be soft on hamas to be a friend of muslims i'm sorry no i'm not buying it no me neither and like
00:35:30.140you know you know i hate to sound use the cliche you know i've got lots of muslim friends because i
00:35:34.780do and i've worked for muslim organizations and muslim individuals and defended them and gone after
00:35:41.700the people who target them too and older muslims not so much regrettably younger muslims are appalled
00:35:48.800by what's taking place they agree that jews are being targeted with violence and attacks and
00:35:54.820defamation they agree with that and they they did not you know the ones who came here the ones who
00:36:01.520were not born here they did not come to canada to see this sort of thing happening this is what they
00:36:07.520wanted to leave behind they'll tell you that if you bother to ask them of course i ask them all the
00:36:13.060time because they're not just my friends but they they run shops you know i'm a big mom and pop shop
00:36:17.920kind of guy and so i've been in lots of middle eastern restaurants run by lebanese families
00:36:22.300they came here from lebanon in the last 30 or 40 years and the major reason they came here from
00:36:27.820lebanon is to get away from the hamas characters who were screwing their business and killing their
00:36:34.820people and muslim canadians are not friends of hamas no they are not they are the victims of hamas
00:36:42.920ghazans are the victims of hamas and that's been the case for many years anyway my friend um i just
00:36:49.380uh glad to hear you feel the same way as i do that mark miller was a victim this week and his staff
00:36:54.340and it's not the kind of crap that we need in this country because it's still a pretty great country
00:36:59.140my friend i always appreciate you calling me on a nice summer day to stare into the abyss
00:37:04.980we too must be freaks who who on this sunday this is being recorded on a sunday in july who on this
00:37:14.160gorgeous day in july wants to talk about the abyss and only one and i can talk about nietzsche
00:37:21.500at the abyss and still have a few laughs yeah but we're having some laughs now so anyway i'm grateful
00:37:27.060for you grateful for your insight thanks my friend before i let you go thank you so much for posting
00:37:32.720about your mom uh on social media thanks a few days ago many many canadians were moved and
00:37:39.280i was among them thank you thanks brother
00:38:02.720i was taken on water trying to get back to land i froze i froze i froze i froze too busy trying to keep
00:38:22.560myself out of trouble i just didn't understand i froze i froze i froze i froze i thought you were waving
00:38:36.560turned out you were drowning really wish i could read your mind i thought you were waving turns
00:38:50.560out you were drowning pull me down just save me next time
00:38:58.560well now i saw you through the window of another burning house i just thought you lived there so i went and shut my mouth
00:39:12.560i froze i froze i froze i froze i froze i froze i froze i froze i thought you were waving turns out you were drowning really wish i could read your mind
00:39:40.560in your mind i thought you were waving turns out you were drowning
00:39:42.560in your mind i thought you were waving turns out you were drowning pull me down just save me next time
00:41:33.180But what I took away from it really was that you're seeing the complete takeover of the Republican Party by the populist right.
00:41:41.200And J.D. Vance is an interesting choice for running mate because he, more than Trump, incarnates this sense of, you know, hardscrabble, came from a part of the United States that was deeply affected by outsourcing of jobs, by the fentanyl crisis, the opioid crisis.
00:42:01.240He talked about those things and basically blamed, you know, big corporations, but also the policies of his own party in the olden days, things like free trade, neoliberalism, you know, the U.S. actively engaging in the world.
00:42:17.500And the view the Republican Party now has is protectionist, it is nationalist, it is inward-looking, it is America first.
00:42:38.300It harkens back to, you know, the, I'd say, over 100 years ago in the U.S., in the Republican Party, when they adopted a more protectionist stance.
00:42:47.320And it does kind of all, we've been kind of talking about it in the kind of big picture aspect of what a second Trump presidency would look like.
00:42:54.620And this kind of gives us a little more evidence here of kind of how that would happen.
00:42:58.580I guess, Warren, what did you glean from the RNC and from what Canada should glean, I guess, from this whole thing?
00:43:04.300Well, on Vance, I think, like opportunist, if you look in the bigger area, you'll see this guy's picture.
00:43:14.080You know, he is in the past called Trump an idiot.
00:44:58.900And he's going to be even more empowered if he's able to win again.
00:45:03.580And it's funny because you mentioned Trump 2.0.
00:45:06.460So, and Republican strategists and pundits were talking about how we would see Trump 2.0 at that convention.
00:45:13.580And he would have, you know, a new speech, rewritten, you know, unifying figure.
00:45:18.100And, of course, it lasted for about five minutes.
00:45:21.280And then he was back into his natural self and then rambled on for 92 minutes.
00:45:25.400So, in that sense, I think because he's the same guy, there's still a chance to beat him.
00:45:32.480But I'm not sure Biden's the guy to do it.
00:45:34.940So, we in Canada are going to have to learn to live with him and hope that what happened during the first mandate,
00:45:43.540which is, you know, a stronger relationship with states directly that have, you know, a role to play in Canada
00:45:51.680and with whom we have, you know, trade and economic links, we have to rely on these governors.
00:45:57.520We'll have to rely on that second and third level of power because in the White House, it's going to be even more difficult than it was in the first go.
00:46:07.320And, Carl, just to follow up, because you did mention U.S. President Joe Biden.
00:46:11.540You know, there's a lot of churning within the Democratic Party right now.
00:46:15.040I guess, ultimately, do you see him staying or going in this race?
00:46:18.460Well, the pressure is on, but, you know, at this time, it's getting late in the game.
00:46:24.720And I think these guys, you know, if they reach a certain level and they don't understand that they need to go,
00:50:07.240But in Biden's case, he's putting his ego before, you know, the interests of the country and his own party.
00:50:13.940And that is just a really sad thing to see.
00:50:15.940And we'll have to watch from here to see how that kind of unfolds over the course of maybe maybe this week, maybe over the course of the next couple of weeks.
00:50:23.260But you would imagine if a decision were to be made, it would have to be soon.
00:50:26.920And, you know, we've been talking about the RNC, all of that, of course, happening in the wake of the attempted assassination attempt against Donald Trump, which we talked about last week.
00:50:35.280And, of course, kind of cooler heads prevailing.
00:50:37.760I think Carl kind of referenced in the speech here, you know, there was a lot of focus on that from Trump and then kind of meandered off into the other stuff.
00:50:45.520But the conversation that has come from this is the political rhetoric and the atmosphere.
00:50:49.500And on this side of the border, we've seen some, you know, not great things, but obviously not to the point of, you know, assassination attempt.
00:50:56.900But Marco Medellino this week calling for safe zones for MPs.
00:51:00.020There was another constituency office by Mark Miller from Mark Miller that was attacked in Montreal this week.
00:51:24.300And Mendocino himself was a victim of a pretty horrendous attack just a few weeks ago.
00:51:31.340And, you know, you have to think about these things.
00:51:35.600But at the end of the day, something's got to give.
00:51:38.940And, you know, if we have to rent more, hire more bodyguards and things like that, I don't think it's helpful for democracy.
00:51:47.040I think you want your politicians to be accessible.
00:51:49.040But at the same time, I totally understand why they would like to get more protection, because now it's just not it's not just prime minister and the ministers at our target.
00:51:58.140It's going it's going down the food chain all the way to MPs and city councillors and, you know, what have you.
00:52:06.820Like, people are very aggressive right now.
00:52:09.760And I don't know how we can change that collectively.
00:52:12.560But it's a phenomenon that's on the rise.
00:52:44.800And, you know, I hearken back, as you're mentioning that, thinking about the shooting at the Parley Marois camp back, was that like 10 years ago now?
00:52:53.000So, you know, there have been instances of this.
00:52:55.360I wonder, I guess, Warren, just in terms of the practicality, as Carl is kind of alluding to there, you know, the Minister of Agriculture or some of these other, you know, portfolios that aren't necessarily the most incendiary files.
00:53:05.380Do we need to be kind of upping security on everybody?
00:53:26.260And they assess, they look at the threats that are coming in, whether it's, you know, over email or whatever, you know, online, and then they make decisions accordingly.
00:53:36.100So that decision should be made by the experts in security, which are the police and the intelligence services and not the politicians themselves.
00:53:47.780Like, this week, guys, Mark Miller, what happened, and it isn't the first time, at his constituency office, they painted on the side of his office the inverted red triangle.
00:54:00.080And let's make no mistake about who's doing it.
00:54:02.320It is the pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas, anti-Semitic mob.
00:56:04.000We have not seen by other levels of whether we are CMPR.
00:56:08.980Like, so much stuff has happened, and I haven't heard of anyone being arrested for it.
00:56:14.960So, I mean, maybe I missed it, but that sends a message this is not acceptable.
00:56:20.040It feels like even we were talking about when MP Mendocino got spit in the face, right, the idea that the police didn't end up arresting that guy.
00:56:26.720It feels like that would have sent a message more than these safe zones at that time, right?
00:56:32.140And Mendocino then, you know, shook his hand.
00:56:33.760Like, no, this is not a moment to make nice, because people who do that sort of thing, it sends a message that if you do that sort of thing, that politician will shake it.
00:56:42.720No, if you do that sort of thing, you should be arrested, because then the next person will not do that sort of thing, because it will make news if that happens.
00:56:49.280Yeah, it definitely feels like it's enabling on that aspect.
00:56:52.060But back to a little bit here, where we've got a few minutes on Canadian politics, of course, the top of the Liberal Party remains a question mark right now, or at least the discussion here.
00:57:01.620We saw a little bit of a mini-cabinet shuffle this week.
00:57:36.780So this is not the departure of some other minister or some other MP that we've never heard of.
00:57:44.080This is somebody who goes on vacations with Justin Trudeau.
00:57:48.420And when a guy like Seamus is leaving, and I hope everything's okay.
00:57:53.240I hope it's not some health thing or, you know, something to do with his family.
00:57:57.620He said he's leaving, you know, spend more time with his family.
00:58:00.940And whenever a politician says that, they're kind of signaling that it's something else.
00:58:05.940Like, if Seamus is saying it's all over, the party's over, you know, I'm getting out of the pool, Justin Trudeau needs to pay attention to that.
00:58:15.520That is somebody who is near and dear to him saying, we are going to lose.
00:58:20.140And because when you lose O'Reagan, I think that means it's all over.
00:58:27.040A friend and a reliable foot soldier for several years now within the Trudeau government here.
00:58:32.420Tasha, is this, I kind of phrased it as, you know, are we just rearranging the deck chairs in the Titanic here?
00:58:38.040Is the Liberal government's head towards the next election?
00:58:49.800I think that it does show that, yeah, Titanic's perhaps an apt metaphor considering the polls right now.
00:58:59.780But I think also for all the reasons that we described, politicians don't want to necessarily get, people don't want to get into politics because it's such an ugly profession right now.
00:59:08.960And people who are in it are saying, well, you know, is the right, should I stick around for lots of reasons?
00:59:15.560So we don't, I think the family thing's always an excuse, too.
00:59:18.700I, you know, I don't know what the real reason is here.
00:59:22.060But certainly I think that it's not a good time for the government when someone like Seamus leaves.
00:59:27.720And Carl, just, you know, last one for you in terms of the different kind of, I guess, noise we've been hearing, right?
00:59:33.280Mark Carney and Krista Freeland apparently having some inner turmoil here.
00:59:36.760Or is that real, you know, Seamus or Regan leaving?
00:59:39.640There's a lot of noise around the Liberal Party this week.
00:59:49.860And I think Seamus is one of many that will not run against the Liberal Party.
00:59:54.960I think it is surprising because he's such a close ally to Justin Trudeau.
00:59:58.920But the signal is that these guys are losing hope.
01:00:02.540They do not think they can win because, you know, the family is a, I mean, to me it's a valid reason, right?
01:00:07.540Like I worked almost 20 years on Parliament Hill and it became very difficult when I got kids to be away all the time, to be working long hours, not be around for their activities.
01:00:21.800And, you know, it makes you feel better to say that it's about the family and I want to spend more time with the family.
01:00:27.800But the real reason is that this is a party that is addressed and they need to find a way to bring some life back into that party.
01:00:38.240And so there were rumors of cabinet shuffle.
01:00:41.320But what we saw this week was not that.
01:00:43.260It's the guy who decided to quit way before the election.
01:00:47.360And so for Justin Trudeau, it's a big problem because then he needs to ask who else will abandon ship before the election.
01:00:57.340And so you will see pressures from PMO staff to ministers asking them, are you in or are you out?
01:01:03.180Because what you want right now, what the Liberals need is not people who will not be there for the election.
01:01:07.880They want the team that's going to be there for the playoffs.
01:01:09.760And if you're not going to be there for the playoffs, then you might as well leave right now during the regular season because we need to give ice time to our best players.
01:01:17.400And if you're not one of them, so long.