KINSELLACAST 327： How to fix the BBC (and the CBC) - plus Lilley, Kheiriddin, Mraz, Belanger on the political week ahead, and Blondshell, Single Mothers, Replacements - and dogs and cats!
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 28 minutes
Words per Minute
150.12897
Summary
Trevor Esserson, a respected lawyer in England and Israel, who basically did an analysis of BBC's coverage of Israel and Hamas and got some shocking results. So we'll have some of my discussion with him, Brian Lilly and I talking about politics, domestic and foreign, and John Mraz, and then hopefully have the CFRA crew at the back end of the show with some great music.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
It's the Kinsella Cast, starring Warren Kinsella.
00:00:16.300
I've got a big, big, big, big show for you this week.
00:00:23.440
Trevor Esserson, who is a respected lawyer in England
00:00:36.580
and got some shocking results, so we're going to talk about that.
00:00:42.500
Brian Lilly and I talking about politics, domestic and foreign,
00:00:47.300
and John Mraz as well, and then hopefully have the CFRA crew
00:00:55.440
I've got, well, actually, I've got, there's this guy, the Kiffness.
00:01:01.980
And he took Donald Trump's Dogs and Cats thing,
00:01:09.200
You probably heard it, but I'm going to play it for you anyway.
00:01:11.320
I've got Blonde Shell, which is Sabrina Teitelbaum from L.A.
00:01:15.080
And Bully, which is Alicia Bagnano, who I've also played before from Nashville,
00:01:29.460
They've been together since 2008, and they've got their song Half Lit from 2015.
00:01:33.880
I think I've played it before, but I don't care, because I want to play it again.
00:01:41.380
Chris was in, and may still be, in Hot Water Music.
00:01:49.020
He's played with Gaslight Anthem, and a really folky kind of tune.
00:01:54.780
That's what you do when you become a really successful punk rock artist.
00:02:10.940
I've got a story in post-media this week of modest size about CBC,
00:02:17.740
and I've written about them before, how they treat Israel.
00:02:26.000
They've got this secretive group internally, Middle East 2023.
00:02:29.460
Three, overseeing their coverage of Israel, and I've talked to lots of reporters and editors there who are Jewish,
00:02:38.300
who are just appalled by what's happened there.
00:02:41.320
It's gone away from journalism and moved towards activism, and they say it's bad for them, and it's bad for Canadians.
00:02:48.540
Like, for example, they've got a guy who's senior, shows up in the newsroom wearing a keffiyeh.
00:02:58.000
But anyway, he's tweeted that Israel is an oppressive, destructive country, and you're a vile human being if you still defend or excuse Israel.
00:03:09.160
Anyway, they've got a big session this week with facilitators who want to challenge the status quo of Zionism, quote-unquote,
00:03:16.720
which they see as an immoral and oppressive occupation,
00:03:19.740
and they wholeheartedly support Sarah Jema, who was suspended in the Ontario legislature for anti-Semitism.
00:03:30.840
And when I raised it with CBC, they kind of shrugged.
00:03:34.280
So I talked to Trevor Asserson, and Trevor did a study with some data scientists and some solicitors in Britain
00:03:59.240
She went across the stage, shook his hand, threw him off.
00:04:03.320
And she needed to look and act presidential, and I think she did that.
00:04:08.960
Trump was kind of medicated at the start, but she knew how to throw him off, his medication.
00:04:18.800
And she needled him about world leaders not wanting anything to do with him.
00:04:26.300
And, you know, his former supporters now supporting her.
00:04:40.600
You want people to get to know you and, you know, what you want to do.
00:04:48.200
Trump didn't speak to people in their living rooms.
00:04:53.960
And she reached out to people, and the polls are revealing that.
00:05:04.780
And he had a turkey neck and a mouth like a sphincter.
00:05:15.140
You know, I've gotten prime ministers and premiers ready for debates.
00:05:18.500
It's really hard to relate facts without sounding like a robot or overprepared.
00:05:28.980
The dog and cat thing that has now become infamous.
00:05:31.260
And I just want to say, the only campaign that has got people on it who eat dogs is Trump's.
00:05:41.860
She showed foreign policy chops on Ukraine, on Israel, on international issues.
00:05:48.880
You know, he's got concepts of a plan, as he said.
00:06:15.300
So she dug this big hole in the ground for him.
00:06:22.260
And I think he blew his shot at a second presidency.
00:06:30.320
Anyway, he's a racist and a rapist and a convicted criminal.
00:06:36.820
And I think he was on a path a few weeks ago to winning.
00:06:44.540
Anyway, so there's lots of stuff going on this week.
00:06:47.720
And I'm talking to my friends about all of that.
00:06:51.000
And let me just say two words that I've been repeating in my head all week.
00:11:06.520
I just feel like a blue, I just feel like a blue
00:11:26.520
You did this important study about the BBC. What motivated you to do it?
00:11:37.020
I've been a commercial litigation solicitor most of my career, but I've also spent a lot of time doing public law work and a lot of human rights work.
00:11:51.340
And I think I went into law motivated by a belief that, as a lawyer, I could make a difference in some respects to the society around me.
00:12:03.240
You know, only in a small way, sometimes just helping one injustice here and another injustice there.
00:12:09.040
And I live in Israel, I have dual English and Israeli nationality, and seeing the story about Israel being told in what appeared to me to be such a biased way was distressing, but also very distressing to all my friends and Israeli society around me.
00:12:38.040
I was aware that there was a legal remedy, because early in my career, I had been asked to act, to join a group of lawyers acting for two major political parties in the UK who sued the BBC and got concessions as a result.
00:12:55.780
And so I knew the methodology, and I had therefore felt fairly sure that we could conduct research and produce evidence that would support a legal claim against the BBC, if indeed the evidence emerged that there really was bias.
00:13:16.480
Of course, of course, when you conduct research like that, you think you know where it's going to go, but you can't be sure.
00:13:25.740
So we obviously tried to conduct the evidence and examination in a very thorough way, without presupposing what we would find, because we knew it would be ultimately subjected to rigorous analysis, both by the BBC and by a court.
00:13:47.440
And what I've been struck by is when they received it, certainly on the front page of the Evening Standard, instead of doing what media organisations reflexively do, which is dismiss it out of hand or suggest it's biased or the methodology is wrong, they said that they would take a hard look at it.
00:14:02.820
I think you had some things to say that they couldn't dismiss out of hand, didn't they?
00:14:09.800
So the response has actually been much greater than I expected.
00:14:15.180
They did on one level say they have big questions about the methodology and tried to set a story running that by using artificial intelligence as part of our methodology, that somehow or other the method was defective.
00:14:32.860
Now, that argument was wrong, because what we did was we used traditional litigation technique, and alongside with that, a completely separate set of data scientists approaching it with tools which are really very modern.
00:14:50.200
And we combined the two, so there were two completely separate disciplines approaching the problem in their own different ways.
00:15:00.440
One traditional legal and the other data science and big data, and they both reached very similar conclusions, which really actually supported one another rather than in any way contradicting.
00:15:14.760
That was their reaction, but they've reacted very quickly in a number of different ways.
00:15:22.660
Firstly, they have written and asked for more time to deal with it, so they're treating it seriously.
00:15:29.900
And secondly, remarkably, to my mind, within about 48 hours of receiving the report,
00:15:38.560
they publicly announced that they were conducting a review into their Middle East reporting.
00:15:46.600
Now, that was one of the things I called for them to do.
00:15:50.760
And the fact that within 48 hours, or maybe it was three days of receiving the report,
00:15:55.920
they publicly went to press to accept one of my proposals,
00:16:00.980
shows that they, I think, shows that they feel this is a very serious allegation against them,
00:16:15.500
You know, for the purposes of my book, what I've done, I've looked at the historical record,
00:16:20.060
well, not just BBC, but Associated Press and Reuters and New York Times,
00:16:25.120
and I've also looked at notorious examples like the hospital in Gaza City in October,
00:16:30.840
you know, where it just historically, it is provable and manifest that the mainstream media
00:16:36.180
have gotten it wrong or have, you know, applied subjectivity in a really unfair way.
00:16:45.100
So can you give us kind of a summary of what the top line would be?
00:16:49.640
What do you think are the most notable data points within your results?
00:16:57.300
Well, I deliberately peppered the report with lots of pictures and graphs
00:17:02.300
to try and make it readable and easy to assimilate.
00:17:09.000
ones which really stick out are that of the, if you, let's take the main news programs,
00:17:21.280
which are Newsnight, Breakfast, and News at 10, they were about one-third even-handed, roughly.
00:17:34.100
But of those stories which were not even-handed, between 90% and 100% were anti-Israel.
00:17:47.880
So, you know, it's perfectly reasonable to my mind to have a pro-Palestinian story.
00:18:02.120
And, you know, I feel my heart really goes out to the Palestinian people who are the victims of Hamas.
00:18:09.540
You know, but, and it, and that has to be told, that story.
00:18:13.540
But to do those stories 100% of the times that they are not balanced is colossal.
00:18:23.540
Then, if you look at the corrections, and there are two types of correction in my mind, and I explain this in a report.
00:18:32.980
There are those corrections which are viewed by the BBC as sufficiently important to be corrected, but not, in my mind, to my view, mind-blowing.
00:18:44.060
For example, they said, they talked about the West Bank, and they forgot to use the word occupied.
00:18:49.160
And someone complained, they hadn't said the occupied West Bank.
00:18:53.480
Now, that's obviously up to them to make that a change.
00:18:58.840
But when they said they bombed, that Israel bombed the Al-Akhli hospital and killed 500 people,
00:19:05.860
when it turned out that Israel hadn't bombed the hospital, it was Islamic Jihad, which is a Hamas affiliate.
00:19:11.620
And it had probably, and it had not hit the hospital, it hit a parking lot, a car park.
00:19:18.920
And the number of people dead were probably one to 300.
00:19:23.060
Tragic number of people to die, but not Israel's fault.
00:19:27.980
And that was a story which ran around the world with major headlines.
00:19:33.580
So I think that's a major change, and I think forgetting to write the word occupied is not a major change.
00:19:41.320
Of the major changes, 100% were anti-Israel stories that had to be retracted because they were a complete lie.
00:19:51.420
Now, if there were anti-Palestinian stories that had to be retracted, you'd see a sense of balance.
00:19:58.920
But they weren't, and I'm talking here about stories the BBC has agreed to retract.
00:20:04.000
I'm not talking about the ones I think it should have retracted.
00:20:11.560
I think another extraordinary fact, and as I say, I'm just picking out two or three,
00:20:18.520
is that what we conducted was a sympathy analysis.
00:20:23.900
Both the AI team conducted that, led by Dr. Haran Shanin-Arkis,
00:20:33.180
and a few professors of the Hebrew University and Bar-Ilan University.
00:20:39.320
We had a very distinguished team of data scientists,
00:20:42.760
and they conducted a sympathy analysis by asking various questions of deep data,
00:20:48.540
whether or not a particular story was evoking sympathy for Israel
00:20:54.340
or evoking sympathy for Palestine or neither, Israeli and Palestinian.
00:21:00.140
We did the same with our human review readers, who were mostly experienced lawyers.
00:21:07.260
And we found an extraordinary thing that in BBC Arabic,
00:21:15.000
most of the world's press was very sympathetic to Israel
00:21:19.600
when the brutal attack of the 7th of October occurred.
00:21:22.420
It was one of the most brutal attacks probably that's ever been recorded
00:21:25.240
because it was being filmed by the perpetrators.
00:21:31.780
when the death and destruction in Palestine, in Gaza, started to increase,
00:21:40.480
The sympathy on the 7th of October in BBC Arabic
00:21:52.080
That means BBC Arabic was actually broadcasting
00:21:56.160
Hamas promotional films with Hamas branding on it
00:22:02.540
set to romanticised music on the 7th of October.
00:22:14.140
And the verbs used to describe the attack were,
00:22:25.260
However, these aren't the exact words, they're in the report.
00:22:28.840
This sort of language was used to describe the attack.
00:22:33.760
And the idea that they couldn't even bring themselves
00:22:43.880
is an indication of where BBC and BBC Arabic are.
00:22:49.840
We conducted a test, the AI team conducted a test
00:22:56.620
against the largest data group that we could find in the world
00:23:01.940
called GDELT, which is all the English language papers in the world.
00:23:11.960
And we looked at all output that was covering this story.
00:23:17.740
If they had more than 100 headlines over the four-month period
00:23:32.860
then we charted them in a large graph, which is in the report.
00:23:40.940
the Pakistan Times, the Times of Egypt, and Al Jazeera.
00:23:47.400
These are the newspapers that sit alongside the BBC
00:24:04.740
But I don't think that the British people are paying £4 billion
00:24:15.580
and a breach of the obligation of impartiality.
00:24:26.060
And I'd be honoured if I could see a copy of the report.
00:24:46.940
If I have your email, I'll send it after this call.
00:25:05.480
They, A, responded so quickly and were not dismissive,
00:25:13.880
So that testifies the seriousness and the reliability of your work.
00:25:22.060
Because, you know, the studies, other studies I've seen rank BBC as just below Al Jazeera
00:25:34.760
I'll answer that by giving you one further remarkable fact.
00:25:38.700
And here I was able to speak with a number of people, very senior and less senior and junior people
00:25:46.520
within the BBC, and a similar range of people who were in the BBC but have now left it.
00:25:52.300
The most remarkable fact, to my mind, that emerged from the report is that there are no rules and regulations
00:26:03.480
within the BBC for complying with their obligation.
00:26:07.940
If you were running a business of this size and you had to comply with certain obligations in whichever field,
00:26:17.480
if you were running the health service and you had to provide adequate doctors
00:26:22.000
and you decided you didn't like oncologists, so you had no oncologists,
00:26:28.360
you would clearly not be serving the public properly.
00:26:31.620
The BBC has no rules at all internally for judging what it's doing.
00:26:36.520
So I know, for example, how many interviewees they had over the last four months we looked at,
00:26:44.680
how many of them were pro-Israel, how many of them were pro-Palestinian,
00:26:54.680
The BBC has absolutely no idea, as far as I can understand it, because they do not monitor.
00:27:01.080
I know which of their journalists have been particularly anti-Israel or anti-Palestinian.
00:27:10.440
There aren't any that I think we've detected that were anti-Palestinian, but there may have been.
00:27:15.580
I also know, I know how many programmes were left and how many programmes right.
00:27:25.620
If it doesn't bother to monitor its output, it cannot possibly know whether or not it's complying with its obligations.
00:27:36.180
If it doesn't know whether it's complying with its obligations, then it can't remedy any defects.
00:27:44.460
So it's basically running blind, and it's got no management control.
00:27:51.440
And because there's no management control, you've got a situation where the journalists,
00:27:58.380
journalists, even very biased journalists, are running the show, and no one's picking up on it,
00:28:05.900
because no one's monitoring and saying, hang on, why have we written 12 negative stories and only one positive?
00:28:17.160
The first thing that they ought to do is sit down and say, well, what do we think is a proper balance
00:28:25.460
And then they tell their journalists and editors, we're aiming for this or that, whatever it might be.
00:28:33.740
At least then they've got targets, and then they can monitor against those targets.
00:28:38.040
So where I would like it to go is the BBC needs to get a management grip on their output.
00:28:47.740
They need to find out, they need to set targets, they need to monitor their output,
00:28:54.360
they need to get rid of journalists if they're not able to produce good quality balanced material.
00:29:02.960
If one journalist is very biased, left or right, I'm not suggesting that being pro-Israel bias would be appropriate either.
00:29:14.920
If they want one particular, and I should say that in my own team for this monitoring system,
00:29:23.040
I found one or two people on the team were just far too, obviously, pro-Israel,
00:29:28.800
and they were unbalanced in their assessment of programmes.
00:29:32.900
Because, you know, I needed impartial people, and as far as anyone could be impartial.
00:29:45.400
It needs to put in proper management systems and controls, identify the journalists who are simply breaking their own regulations,
00:29:55.100
They can do gardening question time or some, you know, less damaging area.
00:30:03.840
The other really significant change is there needs to be a proper complaints system.
00:30:11.300
The present complaint system, if it existed in any country that the BBC was reporting,
00:30:22.360
They would say it's broken, it doesn't work, it's a joke.
00:30:25.820
They themselves would report it as a hopeless system.
00:30:30.240
It almost never, ever finds the BBC to have made a mistake, regardless of the quality of your complaint.
00:30:38.220
And it needs to be professionalised, it needs to be taken out.
00:30:46.100
I mean, the person in charge of the complaints department is the person they're complaining about.
00:30:53.120
And that needs to be properly professionalised and properly sorted out.
00:30:58.120
So they're complaining to the people they answer to, or raising complaints to the people they answer to.
00:31:04.720
Yes, they ultimately go to the director-general, who's the editor-in-chief.
00:31:11.300
And the problems that arise from having a non-working complaint system is it dampens enthusiasm for people to complain.
00:31:23.760
They don't bother to complain because they know it's a waste of time.
00:31:26.760
And then the journalists themselves are told, oh, there have been no good complaints against you, or no complaints have been upheld against you, so you must be getting it right.
00:31:40.160
So it encourages the journalists to think that they're doing the right thing.
00:31:44.280
And it could well be that people in the BBC genuinely believe they're getting it right.
00:31:48.820
But that's partly because there's no complaint system.
00:31:52.360
So the complaint system desperately needs to change.
00:31:57.400
And the BBC itself needs to get a management grip on their own output.
00:32:02.700
And then it's possible that the BBC could actually improve.
00:33:39.620
I see her in the sun, standing straight to the sky, putting me to small flood.
00:33:53.620
Isn't it wrong when I'm gone? I look around at the options. I put man on the docket. Give me a card.
00:34:04.620
The hardest I got about. He should be with someone who's more in love.
00:34:13.620
Not someone eating for free. My worst nightmare is me.
00:34:21.620
I feel like it's twisted. Feeling like he's been fishing. I should probably cut him loose instead of kissing. I don't want to want what I haven't got. But it kills the low. And I'm not full. And I'm not full. I fill the space with Barbasol.
00:34:48.620
I feel like you're fading. You're wrong for waiting. And it's cold to let you love me. I don't want what I need.
00:35:05.620
Isn't it wrong when I'm gone? I look around at the options. I put man on the docket. Give me a card. I got about. He should be with someone who's more in love.
00:35:23.620
Not someone eating for free. My worst nightmare is me.
00:35:31.620
And we're back. And we're back with my friend Brian Lilley, who is at work on a column. Brian, I don't know if you want to scoop yourself, but it's about Russia and spying and subterfuge and espionage. And it sounds pretty cool. What's it about?
00:35:47.100
Well, it's about how, once again, the Trudeau liberals and some of their media allies are trying to latch on to a Russian disinformation and propaganda story. Right.
00:35:59.840
Meanwhile, we have our own Russia propaganda story. That's a real problem in this country, and it's being ignored. So let me explain. About 10 days ago, Merrick Garland, the U.S. Attorney General, came out, announced that they had charged two employees of Russia Today, or RT, with violating the Foreign Agents Act and money laundering and other issues.
00:36:53.720
This is the allegation that they're working with tenant media to pay influencers. The influencers that have been identified are all American. And by the way, even Merrick Garland said, these guys didn't know what was happening. So she's funneling the money, trying to get them to push Russian talking points, especially with the war in Ukraine. Some of them were already against the war in Ukraine for various reasons.
00:37:19.280
But all of them have said, we knew nothing about this. The attorney general says they knew nothing about this. But liberals in this country have been desperate to say, aha, see, anything conservative and conservative media is coming from Russia.
00:37:33.840
There's no connection to pure polyethylene. The closest connection is a woman named Lauren Southern, who, you know, back when I was at Rebel, before it went sideways, Lauren Southern worked there for a while with me. She left before I did, went off, did her own thing.
00:37:51.840
She has zero influence that I can see in any mainstream Canadian movement or political party or media circle in Canada. Zero.
00:38:03.240
So that's the one that the liberals are pushing. And Melanie Jolie puts out a statement. This journalist at CBC named Jonathan Montpetit, who writes like two to three pieces a year. I'm not joking. He's written four in all of 2024. And two of them have been on Russian disinformation in Canada with that attempt to link it back to the conservatives.
00:38:27.340
Nice, nice, nice, nice work if you can get it. Yeah, my lines. Wow.
00:38:31.380
Who doesn't want to be a senior investigative journalist that writes four pieces in a year? Actually, I'd be bored. I'd be bored. Yeah, you do that about four every hour.
00:38:42.540
So, but, but let's look at the fact that we have an actual problem of Russian propaganda being funded by a federal agency, which is what some people will dispute.
00:38:56.780
Oh, no, it's arm's length. The Canadian media fund put $340,000 into Russians at war. This is the movie that was supposed to air. It aired for the media at TIFF, the Toronto International Film Festival.
00:39:12.100
And then it was supposed to air for the public on Friday. And they pulled it citing threats, vague threats. Toronto Police Service won't say anything about it. TIFF says vague threats.
00:39:21.260
That film got money from the BC government. It got money from Ontario through the TV Ontario station.
00:39:32.260
But TV Ontario has come out and said, look, this was wrong. We disagree with this. And by the way, we won't be airing this movie. This was a mistake.
00:39:39.900
There's nothing from the Canadian media fund. There have been liberal MPs trying to link it back to the Ford government saying, why is the Ford government funding this? That's, you know, Ivan Baker and Jennifer O'Connell, people like that.
00:39:53.740
Chrystia Freeland has come out and denounced the movie, but not talked about the funding. Most of the parliamentary press gallery has not talked about the funding.
00:40:03.700
It was $340,000 from the Canadian media fund. The media fund, its biggest funder in 2023 was the federal government. Department of Canadian Heritage gave them $190 million.
00:40:17.860
The second biggest funder were, you know, companies like Bell, Rogers, Codrico, Quebec, or the cable and satellite companies.
00:40:26.160
And they only fund it because they are required to by the federal government as part of their licensing. If they don't, they can't operate.
00:40:35.700
So this is a federal entity and it's funding this. And, you know, people are just, oh, oh, wow, oh, Russian propaganda. We have it right here. And you and I, it's our money that went into it.
00:40:48.960
It's a fascinating story. And so everybody needs to read Brian's piece when it comes out shortly about espionage and Russians and stupidity by the federal government.
00:41:00.500
So speaking of stupidity by the federal government.
00:41:02.840
Thank you for that time, comrade, so that I could spread my disinformation.
00:41:05.660
So comrade, comrade Lily, I am bundled three subjects because they're all related.
00:41:17.080
Pierre Polyev is saying he is going to move on confidence on the government.
00:41:21.340
Government can fall. And there's by elections this week.
00:41:24.800
All kinds of stuff happening federally, politically this week.
00:41:30.540
Uh, this week, not much when it comes to voting on confidence, I don't think they're going to get a, a supply day.
00:41:38.880
Uh, that that's what you need in order to move a motion of non-confidence.
00:41:44.020
Um, and I doubt there'll be a money bill voted on.
00:41:48.060
Uh, you know, I, I'm thinking the second week, but, uh, I haven't seen the full schedule, uh, so far the, um, so there'll be a lot of saber rattling.
00:41:57.400
You know, Justin Trudeau has said that he's looking forward to mixing it up with Pierre Polyev.
00:42:03.960
And Polyev in the interview he did with me, which will air Sunday night, 6 p.m. YouTube on the Toronto Suns YouTube channel.
00:42:12.820
Jagmeet Singh's looking forward to jumping up and down in the corner and say, hey guys, hey guys.
00:42:19.660
But, you know, I, I, you know, the by-elections are tricky.
00:42:24.640
There's a good chance that the NDP could win in Montreal and that would be great for them and horrible for the liberals.
00:42:33.300
But then they could lose in Winnipeg to the conservatives.
00:42:37.480
The conservatives are downplaying expectations, but they also did that in St. Paul's.
00:42:42.420
So if, you know, in English Canada, Jagmeet Singh is trying to say the next election is a battle between me and Pierre Polyev.
00:42:51.980
If he fails in the first contest, that's really going to hurt him.
00:42:57.800
There's a small chance the conservatives take it.
00:43:03.240
Can you imagine that both Singh and Trudeau were damaged by the by-elections?
00:43:11.420
You know, everybody's likening the LaSalle Lamarre seat, the Paul Martin seat, that by-election to St. Paul's in Toronto, where the liberals lost for the first time since forever.
00:43:28.760
What happens if Trudeau loses that by-election?
00:43:34.600
And let me read to you from the Toronto Red Star.
00:43:38.140
So this is not Brian Lilly writing great stuff.
00:43:51.420
You know, because when I read this to you from her column on Saturday, you might think, if you didn't know it was from the Star, you'd think, oh, somebody's making stuff up here.
00:44:02.080
So apparently at their caucus meeting, they're trying to rally the troops.
00:44:06.600
They played clips from Sylvester Stallone and Rocky Balboa and Al Pacino's famous speech in the football film Any Given Sunday.
00:44:17.120
And they played the clip where he says, either we heal as a team or we're going to crumble inch by inch, play by play till we're finished.
00:44:24.220
We can stay here and get this shit kicked out of us or we can fight our way back into the light.
00:44:32.240
What I think, like, didn't you say to me that Rocky says in one of his movies, he's too old to fight anymore?
00:44:40.880
Pacino in that speech at the end says, now you go do it.
00:44:55.320
But, you know, one day you're going to have to buy, well, you buy me breakfast at the Patrician anyway.
00:45:05.640
It feels like I'm the only guy on earth saying he's going to go.
00:45:08.060
So, but I'm starting to have some doubts about my prediction.
00:45:12.880
You and I had some fun with Donald Trump's dog and cats thing, which has become the most memed meme thing of all time.
00:45:22.280
I think he's an evil genius of changing the channel.
00:45:26.020
He certainly seemed to have done that with that.
00:45:28.560
But it's also gone a bit sideways on him, hasn't it?
00:45:32.600
I mean, when you become the object of ridicule, when people are laughing at you in politics, it's never a great thing.
00:45:37.760
So, the funniest part about that is the guy who created the song, and I'm sure you've seen videos of the song.
00:45:50.740
He hates Trump, and he did it to mock Trump, and then all the Trump people took it and did videos dancing to it because they loved it, and it's utterly insane.
00:46:04.900
Look, we've still got a couple of days to get better polling in, and at the end of the day, that's what matters.
00:46:12.920
And right now, Harris is still less than two points on the average at 270.
00:46:19.720
538 has it different, but Nate Silver has admitted like it's a different formula, and they give weightings.
00:46:26.260
But Real Clear Politics and 270 are still in that just under two-point range.
00:46:32.820
But interestingly, Michigan, it's 1.2% that Harris is ahead.
00:47:05.060
Because people want to know what your gut says about where this race is going.
00:47:09.420
Oh, if an election were held today, Trump would win.
00:47:12.780
Because she just doesn't have enough of a lead.
00:47:18.520
You know, when you look at where Clinton was in 2016, and what the result was, and where Biden was, and what the result was...
00:47:27.600
Yeah, Biden won, but not by as much as polls said, that tells you that there's going to be a bit of a jump for Trump.
00:47:35.920
And so, if it's 0.8% that Harris is ahead by, which is what it is in Pennsylvania, he'll take Pennsylvania.
00:47:50.240
And, you know, there was a huge upswing in voter registration after Taylor Swift's endorsement.
00:48:01.040
A lot of young women, maybe they're not being captured.
00:48:08.140
But had the election been held three weeks ago, Harris would have won.
00:48:13.940
And advanced polls are starting in the next few days.
00:48:18.040
So, to our American listeners, we look forward to hearing from all of you and seeing where this thing is going.
00:48:24.800
Brian, Lily, and I are up here barbecuing dogs and cats.
00:48:27.960
Actually, I should probably not talk about that.
00:48:32.400
But, my friend, thank you for your wisdom, as always.
00:48:37.760
People of Springfield, please don't eat my cats.
00:49:05.340
People of Springfield, please don't eat my dog.
00:50:27.520
The people that came in, they're eating the cats
00:50:31.520
They're eating the pets of the people that live there
00:50:35.520
live there and this is what's happening in our country and we're back and they're eating the cats
00:50:41.980
they're eating the dogs john res they're eating the cats and the dogs what do you think i think
00:50:49.340
that's pretty funny i i mean i think it's hilarious i think uh obviously that uh trump dropped that
00:50:56.600
meme during that debate to try and further aggravate racial tensions and and migration
00:51:03.440
tensions the united states i would also add that until the 1970s in the united states they used
00:51:10.200
cats to string tennis rackets and there are at least 30 countries around the world three of which
00:51:15.580
i've eaten dog where dog is a normal thing to eat but none of them are haiti and um and so it's such
00:51:22.760
an absurd environment out there when you think about all of the madness going on around the world
00:51:28.940
and the things we should be paying attention to but here we are it's hilarious okay but stop
00:51:34.520
okay i didn't know so you've eaten a dog like was it a little was it a poodle or like a great dane or
00:51:42.080
like so twice twice i ate dog in latin america and i believe once it was a retriever and once of
00:51:48.500
unknown origin and once you bastard oh my god i've got two labradors i'm about to get a third in fact
00:51:56.040
you're not getting anywhere near my fucking dogs pal here's the thing and the third time was an
00:52:01.020
after here's the thing when people host you for dinner in very poor countries uh you eat whatever
00:52:06.920
you're given especially in uh tense situations all three were restive states which is a fancy word
00:52:13.200
for uh in the middle of civil wars or actual wars and protein gets pretty rare and so people eat
00:52:19.880
canines i've never eaten cat i've never been offered cat anywhere but it wasn't like i relished
00:52:25.940
the idea it was just something that one did so that one one didn't offend one's hosts who were
00:52:30.600
bearing arms but do you put relish on the idea buddaboom okay so um enough of that you're not
00:52:37.260
coming anywhere near my animals um i uh i was at a couple events with lots of jewish friends this week
00:52:43.700
you've got lots of jewish friends you've got jewish family and um you know i have them coming up to me
00:52:50.720
as i suspect they're doing with you saying you know i wish you weren't so critical of trump you
00:52:57.260
know he's better for israel and it just it leaves me gobsmacked you know practically with my mouth
00:53:03.940
hanging open like like no he's not but then i thought well i'm gonna ask john and because maybe
00:53:11.520
you think he's better for israel is that what you think no i don't i i i'm gonna remind you of
00:53:18.480
something fidel castro said in the early 60s which he said and and using the world word zionist is an
00:53:24.740
insult which i don't because i'm a zionist i believe in israel's right to exist and that's all that word
00:53:29.360
means yep del castro said that the republican party were the zionist party of hard power and the
00:53:35.420
democrats were the zionist party of soft power and i think to some extent he was right soft power
00:53:41.820
tends to save lives i do not believe for a second that harris and waltz if they are elected will back
00:53:48.680
down on their commitment their firmament uh uh an alliance that we valued and honored since 1947
00:53:55.720
to israel and they will continue to provide them arms they might also try to rein in bb netanyahu
00:54:04.200
and some of his activities on the west bank which needs to happen which needs yeah which
00:54:09.960
israelis tend to not give a shit and why would they what's going on in the united states proper
00:54:15.680
and so in their mind trump i suppose and some of my friends kids and it really upsets them some of my
00:54:20.960
israeli friends kids are pro-trump simply because they believe trump is prepared to actually get
00:54:27.020
involved in the action and start firing himself which might lead us to a world war so i'm not excited
00:54:33.980
about that idea at all because i don't trust iran russia has some restraint i am not sure the rgc and
00:54:40.640
iran have any restraint if they start to get hit by american weapons well let's let's talk about that
00:54:45.040
thank you for that excellent segue so um the department of justice under merrick garland has shown that
00:54:52.720
iran is behind all kinds of nefarious activity united states the canadian intelligence establishment
00:54:59.320
is actually contributed to some of what we know iran is up to we've heard from the director of
00:55:06.020
national intelligence in the united states in july that iran is actually funding as as one of your
00:55:12.360
friends at post media wrote many months ago that iran was funding protests against israel
00:55:17.660
in western democracies so iran is behind a lot of shit that is going on at the moment
00:55:22.920
is this something we in canada need to be concerned about i think it's i would flabbergast me uh flummoxes
00:55:30.260
me is that they have been doing this for a very long time as have the russians as the russians were
00:55:35.760
just exposed for interfering in uh our electoral and political environment by using media companies
00:55:42.360
that they quietly buy iran does the exact same thing iran when it comes to uh supporting financially
00:55:49.660
these protests it would shock me if it wasn't them and by the way they're not the only actor doing
00:55:54.560
this the muslim brotherhood so iran being shia just the adaptation of those muslim brotherhood being
00:56:00.300
sort of the de facto shin fein of the of the sunni terrorist you know world right sort of the
00:56:08.060
legitimized semi-legitimized actor they back all sorts of these activities through the mosques and uh the
00:56:15.080
you know uh and and and the islamic schools and charities in our country so we should have been
00:56:20.940
worried about it for 20 or 30 years great we're waking up where else is this money coming from
00:56:27.260
where else is uh these students that are organizing aren't do not have these tactical abilities do not
00:56:32.480
have these financial resources i'd be shocked if all of the people doing this are not being paid a
00:56:37.280
daily fee a per diem as it's known to just show up or at least some of them they're certainly being
00:56:42.640
well fed somewhere they house all of those banners and flags and schwags you know that they use it all
00:56:50.160
costs money and of course it's coming from foreign actors it was coming from domestic actors would be
00:56:54.960
onto it right away so yeah we should be worried and wake up and i'm delighted that cesus have actually
00:57:00.020
started to do their job and admit that it's happening instead of being scared of uh offending people
00:57:06.140
convincing people we're a racist country who doesn't like people of brown skin color that's nothing to do
00:57:11.900
with skin color this has to do with promoting a terrorist agenda on our domestic soil and national
00:57:18.420
security well said well said final thing uh you've assisted liberal campaigns for many years successful
00:57:24.520
campaigns you know many people in the liberal caucus we've got a action-packed week coming up we've
00:57:31.900
got parliament coming back we've got by elections in winnipeg and in montreal and we've got pierre
00:57:38.160
paulia saying he's going to bring a non-confidence vote against the government and jagmeet singh no
00:57:43.200
longer indicating he's going to support the government what's your predilection what is your
00:57:47.840
prognostication about what's going to happen in coming days in ottawa i don't know what's going to
00:57:54.120
happen i don't have a crystal ball i know what i'd like to happen lauren what i'd like to happen is i'd
00:57:58.480
like the government to collapse trudeau still at the helm so trudeau can take the hit that someone is
00:58:04.200
going to take i don't think there's any coming back from the precipice over which he has launched
00:58:08.960
us and so if if he were to retire this week under duress then you have a very quick uh leadership
00:58:17.340
or maybe even a temporary leader leading us the next election and then you have a second fight
00:58:23.300
because we're gonna lose i mean i'm calling myself we because i'd like to join the liberal party if it
00:58:28.260
was the liberal party one day again i certainly don't want to join the conservative party but
00:58:32.100
polyamora is is is gonna win i'd rather trudeau immolate himself during that event and then we
00:58:39.200
can take some time and figure out where we lost our way with this current administration
00:58:43.600
as to whether jagmeet singh has has the stones or the eggs as we say in eastern europe to actually
00:58:50.080
uh support a vote of non-confidence initiated by the conservatives i'm not sure he does his numbers
00:58:56.180
are terrible and i'm not sure what kind of confidence he enjoys in in his own membership
00:59:02.820
let alone the canadian people he does not seem to impress anybody much his numbers have gone down as
00:59:07.960
you know a great deal over the last few months to what end to what advantage unless he's seeking
00:59:13.560
simply to get rid of himself i love it when people say he's staying for the pension that dude does not
00:59:17.960
need any money he's not staying he's doing all right well said well said well listen uh amazing week
00:59:24.380
coming up uh looking forward to talking to you about it in coming days john maras have a great day
00:59:30.520
that night i fell into the pharmacy i thought i was in a lucid dream
00:59:50.320
so i'd burn and said anything that you could ever need i'll just think we'll learn about and don't give it to me
00:59:59.860
a phone ring and i don't know you fucking answer
01:00:03.780
your hair was all mad and you look so fantastic
01:00:07.360
and i'm swimming till i've ever felt so romantic
01:00:18.320
turns out these lines are hanging on strings so let's get high and cause i'm down and watch them fall on every scene
01:00:31.860
listen there's nothing that i can't do i'm trying and i just can't lose
01:01:50.980
and welcome to it joining us this morning tasha carron in political columnist for the national post and writer for g0 media
01:01:58.460
hi tasha good morning and thanks for joining us
01:02:05.960
uh warren cansell is a strategist and post media columnist he is here to talk politics as well
01:02:15.160
but those are the vibes that we need this morning
01:02:19.420
i think we should just debate this for the next little while to be honest
01:02:23.320
carl i see a new toronto sun headline this morning or from warren for sure
01:02:28.200
uh carl belanger strategist attraction strategies president as well
01:02:31.580
uh carl thanks so much for joining us i really appreciate it
01:02:34.920
we got a lot to talk about obviously coming into this week
01:02:37.380
i was kind of thinking about how to break this down
01:02:40.720
we are hearing from one of the the liberal candidate
01:02:42.820
in that by-election coming up in the montreal area tomorrow
01:02:45.720
and you know trying to distance themselves from trudeau somewhat in many ways as much as you
01:02:50.520
possibly can while you're running under the liberal banner
01:02:52.980
i guess tasha i'll start with you in terms of is this you know make or break for the liberals
01:03:04.160
because this would be the second by-election in a row in a so-called stronghold that they would
01:03:10.740
lose if they lose it and that's after saint paul's in june in toronto so it's not um it's not too much
01:03:19.280
stock i think it just it confirms the the the basic sentiment that people are saying that that
01:03:25.600
you know trudeau is an albatross for his party and that's what the candidate there
01:03:29.680
laura palestini essentially was saying not so many words obviously but uh you know she was hand
01:03:35.520
picked for the riding she didn't go through a nomination process which angered a lot of liberals
01:03:39.780
in the riding so the leader had a hand in it and uh he you know he was his face wasn't on any of her
01:03:45.920
posters but unlike the other candidates uh his name was on the on it um but not the face and she's
01:03:52.680
tried to step away but what the polls are showing now is that the block of the quads and the lead by
01:03:57.520
about five points so that's pretty significant in a riding that used to be paul martin's seat
01:04:04.400
um and with david lametti's seat former justice minister just before he quit and the the block
01:04:10.240
leading and you've got the ndp right there as well so warren is this just the fact that this is a
01:04:14.960
three-way race can we take that as a shot against the liberals here well for me the most significant
01:04:20.320
thing is that the block are leading and you know i've seen one poll showing them leading by quite a
01:04:26.480
bit and when you combine that with the return of the parts quebecois in quebec you know there is
01:04:34.120
there's obviously an opinion shift taking place there that does not portend well for harmony
01:04:41.880
in confederation uh so there's that you know what will trudeau do with it if he loses i i suspect he'll
01:04:50.860
do what he did in the case of saint paul's he'll shrug and you know hide from the microphones and
01:04:56.200
and hope the caucus doesn't get too upset but i've been talking to members of caucus i think all of
01:05:02.500
us have been and you know liberal mps and you know senators because they actually have senators whether
01:05:09.200
they claim to or not are very unhappy and very anxious and the worst i've ever seen and so i think
01:05:17.300
they're whatever trudeau does i think they're going to be very concerned about a loss in what is as
01:05:23.260
tasha just pointed out the paul martin seat this was paul martin seat most of it and um if they lose
01:05:30.860
that it'll be a real symbolic blow i i want to come back to the to the what if in a moment but carl
01:05:37.400
just in the idea that this is now a three-way race in what would be normally considered a liberal
01:05:41.760
stronghold is that kind of uh i guess a loss enough for the liberals as it is well only if they do lose
01:05:48.620
it because by elections have their own dynamics and and you know there's a reason why the nep is in
01:05:54.180
there is because they have a very popular candidate uh but they are polling in single digit in quebec so
01:05:59.380
you know they don't expect this to be replicated in the general election unless somehow they are able
01:06:04.560
to pull it off and win and and have this beachhead to go with uh alexander bolgris which is on the other
01:06:10.600
side of the island uh but but frankly the fact that it's a three-way race uh makes it very interesting
01:06:17.100
uh to to watch tomorrow uh the polls have put the bloc in front and and if uh you know if if they're
01:06:26.160
they are to be believed uh the the bloc would love to win this because it would reinforce their
01:06:31.840
their bargaining position with the liberal government who's lost uh because they're having lost the
01:06:37.460
nep so so uh there's a lot of consequences for this this by-election in particular but also for
01:06:43.780
the one in amun transcona because uh if the conservatives are able to beat the nep for the
01:06:49.060
second time in the last 12th election um that would be also a big blow for jagmeet singh uh and if he
01:06:56.480
also loses in in the montreal uh the gamble to you know rip up the agreement before those by-elections
01:07:04.660
would have failed would he have been better served if they end up doing this again we're moving into
01:07:09.620
the what-if territory but would he have been better served to wait carl in your estimation if they end
01:07:13.620
up losing both these races well if they end up losing yes i think he should have waited i mean i
01:07:19.620
think part of the calculation was that taking some distance from the liberals would help them in both
01:07:24.600
seats but if they end up losing and they're left with having to prop up a government without getting
01:07:30.980
anything in return uh then they've lost their influence and they look weaker than they were
01:07:36.820
prior to these by-elections and i wanted to go back to that what if as well uh just what you were
01:07:42.000
picking up on there warren in terms of the liberals do lose their seat we talked a little bit about
01:07:45.980
mark carney kind of playing footsies again with the liberal government last week but now he's been
01:07:49.300
actually named a special advisor here warren am i out in left field here to kind of think that perhaps
01:07:54.540
the the the trudeau liberals are trying to build a possible path forward for mark carney
01:07:59.900
to be a bigger part of this party perhaps in the future well certainly looks like trudeau's trying
01:08:04.940
to favor carney as a preferred successor because he completely humiliated christopher freeland who's
01:08:12.560
really in charge of economic policy and he did that in public but i mean it's just a bad time all
01:08:18.020
around for the liberals it's not just the by-elections tomorrow uh you got parliament returning and the
01:08:24.360
government i i don't think the liberal party's been this unpopular since ignatiev you've got
01:08:29.580
poliev saying that he's going to bring a non-confidence vote you know who knows if he
01:08:33.960
might be able to pull it off you got the by-elections like it's just a bad bad week coming up and i think
01:08:40.540
everybody within the liberal caucus as i said a couple minutes ago associate the blame for that
01:08:46.320
and their poor standing with one thing which is justin trudeau you know he has become uh one of the
01:08:54.200
most unpopular prime ministers i think since moroni and people want him gone and that includes the
01:09:00.220
majority of the liberal caucus and he ain't leaving he ain't going anywhere and they can't figure out
01:09:05.680
how to deal with it and that's what i find a very interesting tasha this week that mark carney was
01:09:09.940
kind of welcomed in an official capacity because it was it was kind of you're showcasing him to
01:09:14.500
canadians but he's not actually part of the party he's not you know he's not a politician but
01:09:18.420
but here's this guy here's this guy that's a good way of putting it um i think uh it's it's uh
01:09:25.620
i i think this is almost less about mark carney and more about justin trudeau again um you know
01:09:30.960
torrent's point is like i have nine lives i have ten lives trudeau refuses to leave um so he's putting
01:09:36.800
something in the window without actually you know it's a keep your friends close and your enemies closer
01:09:42.140
he's not he's not giving carney a seat he's not giving carney a cabinet post he's making him a
01:09:46.640
special advisor the last person he did that to was david johnston um that didn't work out too well
01:09:51.500
the special rapporteur if you remember because when things go wrong if if the advice for example
01:09:57.080
is not welcomed or it doesn't succeed you'll throw that person under the bus so i would be careful
01:10:03.500
if i were mark carney i really would um yes this gives him a political in in a way baptizes him into
01:10:10.540
the fold more officially uh you know he can he will be advising the party steering guiding the party
01:10:16.460
taking christopher helen's job for all intents and purposes as warren said um but uh the flip side is
01:10:22.900
if things go down um he goes down with them he's now associated with this government he's associated
01:10:28.440
with the trudeau brand uh i i wrote about this this week i said the best thing he should do is give the
01:10:34.920
government advice it doesn't take and then afterwards say i told you so when trudeau loses because
01:10:40.780
the advice they'd have to take would be to steer this ship in a very different direction and i
01:10:46.600
don't think it's advice that trudeau will want to take yeah one would think that anyway and and carl
01:10:51.320
just to kind of tash's point here is this more do you think um uh the the liberal leader here kind
01:10:56.320
of trying to trade on the popularity of perhaps mr carney here the popularity uh
01:11:02.220
well i guess new blood new blood not popularity like a vampire yeah i mean i mean frankly mark
01:11:11.480
carney uh you know has been this uh the savior in waiting for so long now that uh i'm not sure he's
01:11:18.900
the kind of guy who could actually step up and save a liberal party the way he's been handling it
01:11:24.400
personally um i've not been conducive to uh you know being a very loyal servant of the liberal party
01:11:31.320
uh that said he's got this new role uh we'll see what he does with it we'll see how much ice time
01:11:37.000
he's going to get or is it just a placeholder i mean that's the real question is he going to have
01:11:42.140
an active role will he be seen and heard by canadians because frankly you know we know who he is but most
01:11:47.980
canadians have no no idea who that guy is and if he doesn't get any kind of visibility from that that
01:11:55.140
promotion let's put it this way um it's not going to amount to anything
01:11:59.480
we'll wait and see how he kind of rears his head in this uh campaign or in this uh in next sitting
01:12:05.960
of the house of commons because it does return on monday i know peer poly of the conservatives are
01:12:09.980
rallying today so kind of going back to that point we were talking about earlier you know peer poly of
01:12:14.720
uh mentioning that he's going to raise a non-confidence vote as soon as possible here
01:12:18.500
within the house of commons and and that is his right but we know the liberals do have some other
01:12:22.200
support within the the block in other ways to kind of get around this at this moment but it's not as
01:12:26.560
steady as it used to be i'm wondering though carl is there a possibility here that peer poly of me
01:12:31.460
uh end up jumping the gun here in terms of trying to bring down the government because one would think
01:12:36.560
that if you do this and fail i don't know if it has the gravitas that it does the second third fourth
01:12:42.420
fifth times around you know what i mean yeah i hear what you're saying uh but uh the third fourth
01:12:48.400
fifth time that he does it and the government does in dean fall who is the only one that will
01:12:52.580
matter so so they may try uh it depends what they actually want like do they want to trigger an
01:12:58.740
election or not uh if they do want to have an election then the motion will be very simple you
01:13:04.320
know that this house lost confidence in the government uh if they try to attach all kinds of policies or
01:13:10.140
ideologies a carbon tax election or what have you then they of course they are leaving openings for
01:13:16.660
the other parties to uh to to vote against it now of course that was uh even that was a little more
01:13:23.340
possible before drug mixing started to hilariously back track on the carbon tax um so now it would be
01:13:31.880
interesting to see if there was a a carbon tax non-confidence motion where the nb will land
01:13:36.600
because he just said he didn't like it uh so i wouldn't be surprised if the conservatives were moving
01:13:42.580
a motion that was talking actually about the carbon tax and non-confidence making that link it won't
01:13:47.160
trigger an election but it would put the nb in a very tough spot uh which i think is part of the
01:13:52.660
strategy they the conservatives want to undermine the nb as an alternative to the liberals and they
01:13:57.660
want to be the only one standing to reap the rewards from the liberal collapse trudeau just following
01:14:04.580
up on that carl because trudeau kind of picking up on that too kind of blaming the nb for for backing
01:14:08.140
down on on kind of certain parts of the the carbon tax there is that a mistake politically do you think
01:14:12.960
in the ndp's estimation well it is i'm not sure yet but but certainly one of the reasons why the
01:14:21.160
federal ndp is backing out of that policy is because uh british colombia government is doing so
01:14:26.860
and it would be really hard for the federal ndp to have a position that is opposed to uh provincial
01:14:32.980
new democrats that are running in a campaign and sketch one will have their own campaign soon and
01:14:37.560
as i suppose the sketch one and if you will have a similar position so uh i think that's a
01:14:42.580
defensive um move uh but i i'm not sure it's going to be helpful unless they put something in the
01:14:49.600
window and and they haven't they are they have concepts of a plan at this point and warren just
01:14:55.180
back on the the pollio point in terms of he's been very transparent about what he's going to be up
01:14:59.240
to over the course of the next few days here pride i try to bring down the government as as soon as
01:15:03.080
possible here is there something to be said as i was saying about taking your shot too early or
01:15:07.140
just in the in the current political climate where you're up 20 points does he have some
01:15:11.320
political capital to lose here no i don't think so i i think there's no downside for him trying
01:15:16.740
and failing you know as kretzian used to say to me during the period when we were in opposition
01:15:22.300
you know your job in opposition is to oppose not to propose so you know if he fails and you know
01:15:30.220
let's face it 110 percent of canadians would like this government gone so you know they're going to be
01:15:35.880
happy that polio is at least tried i don't think they're going to fault him or penalize him for
01:15:42.080
doing so but i mean it's just you know all of this stuff together the by-elections and carny and
01:15:47.960
confidence motions the ndp tearing up the the deal like all of it kind of bundles together
01:15:54.740
into like a really bad period for the trudeau liberals where it just looks like they're not in
01:16:00.680
control of anything and it's amazing when you consider it because you know the bank of canada
01:16:04.740
is saying that inflation is now going to drop to its lowest level in the coming months in in half a
01:16:12.160
decade like that's good news for this government to relate but they're so preoccupied with their
01:16:18.400
own difficulties and their own problems they're not communicating any of that so um you know i think
01:16:24.500
it's going to be an unhappy time for these guys yeah i struggle to think of a win that would help the
01:16:29.140
liberals in the polls right now but kind of tasha just talking about up here pauliev and his position on
01:16:33.540
this obviously he wants to go to the polls he is 20 points up right now and he's been uh staying on
01:16:38.340
message in terms of that he wants his government held to account is there any um is there any drawbacks
01:16:43.400
to trying to bring down the the government so quickly when you're so far up in the polls right now
01:16:47.240
no not at all because then he can just blame the other parties for not doing it so he he looks like
01:16:53.160
he's the one trying to move the needle get the change canadians want etc etc i i think he's um
01:16:59.540
you know it's it's it eventually it succeeds and he does bring the government down future on an
01:17:05.760
unconfidence motion it will then it'll trigger an election no one will care what happened in
01:17:09.940
september but it adds that extra bit of poison right now right if he does do a motion and um you
01:17:17.980
know he can stand there dramatically and say we're the ones trying to get this government to account
01:17:22.000
the other parties aren't it what's interesting to me is that um the strategy the conservatives are using
01:17:27.920
is is the opposite of the one they did in 2011 when they had an equally unpopular uh liberal leader
01:17:34.880
um was michael ignatiev he was extremely unpopular um but there they relied on a popular ndp to split
01:17:43.840
the vote and win a majority um in this time in this case they're trying to crush the ndp and absorb
01:17:50.200
them essentially um so maybe it's because singh is not is not a jack layton i think that's fundamentally
01:17:56.820
what it boils down to but it's kind of um it's interesting that they have veered so far into
01:18:02.020
populist territory that they are now the alternative for members of the ndp it tells you how much
01:18:07.900
politics in canada has changed yeah absolutely and we're seeing you know even uh we're seeing some
01:18:12.260
ndp supporters you know supporting polyam in some ways so yeah very interesting to see the kind of the
01:18:16.780
political map right now where it is i wanted to turn our attention while we got a few more minutes
01:18:20.820
uh fortunately or unfortunately uh south of the border we saw the u.s debate this weekend and of
01:18:25.880
course it's it's turned uh springfield ohio into a lightning rod i want to get onto that into a
01:18:31.980
moment here just some of the ridiculousness that's been going on there but the idea here i guess this
01:18:36.620
is our best uh that was probably the last debate that we are going to see much different than the
01:18:41.000
one we saw with joe biden i just carl your takeaways from the debate on uh on when was that it feels
01:18:45.880
like a year ago wednesday tuesday yeah it feels like a year ago uh well i mean camera iris was
01:18:52.400
was uh very good uh she clearly was prepared she set up trap again and again and donald trump would
01:18:59.160
just walk into them and he had a very bad night in fact it was the first time that i i think we can
01:19:03.820
say fairly that donald trump lost the debate and uh i think he he knows that even though he would
01:19:09.880
never admit it uh that said you know the uh the polls have shifted slightly but not significantly
01:19:16.940
and it's still a very tight race and there was the beginning of a message that donald trump had
01:19:22.520
that uh you know is a very difficult one for camera iris and it's tying her to joe biden and
01:19:29.520
and donald trump did that a couple of times and you could see it was bothering her and she had to
01:19:33.780
say twice that she's not joe biden and i think i i mean i never quite understood why donald trump
01:19:40.320
didn't go there from the get-go uh but that uh that that fact is still uh you know an albatross
01:19:47.940
around her neck and uh if if the republicans are able to exploit it it will remain a tight race till
01:19:53.040
the end yeah i think for just your point carl there was some fertile ground there for trump to
01:19:57.380
kind of go on he just kind of jumped over it and went to springfield ohio instead but uh warren
01:20:02.380
when we're talking about i guess a to to carl's point here you know a lot of times it's at least
01:20:07.280
you know trump you could say maybe won it into a draw or spun it into a draw here i think it's
01:20:11.520
kind of objectively you can say that trump lost this debate but your takeaways and do you think
01:20:16.200
it has anything or any effect on the race that we're seeing right now well he's an idiot you know
01:20:21.160
he's an idiot and and so he acted like an idiot surprise surprise what amazed me is you know he'd
01:20:28.920
been warned by his team everybody was leaking in the lead up to the debate you know what their debate
01:20:34.500
strategy was and their advice to him was one thing don't fall for her bait like she is an experienced
01:20:42.900
trial litigator she knows how to debate don't take her bait and he did hook line and sinker like he was
01:20:50.620
wiggling around on the bottom of her boat and she was just smiling and like you know off the top
01:20:56.520
they asked her you know the abc moderators who of course all the republicans were saying you know
01:21:01.580
were it was a gang up which is what babies always say you know when they're losing a game they blame
01:21:06.740
the ref they asked her you know are people really better off than they were four years ago that was
01:21:11.760
a legitimate tough question yeah and it would have been a very difficult answer for her to give
01:21:16.540
and so she pivoted and raised the size of his rallies and he took the bait and that was it that was the
01:21:22.560
end of the debate six and a half minutes in it was over she had won it and like it's why why did he
01:21:29.280
do that well because he's an idiot that's why this is few explanations how about that few explanations out
01:21:36.500
there but uh attach it just on that point in the debate performance it kind of incredible to see kind
01:21:41.780
of i don't know the the meltdown that was donald trump at this performance because even as warren alluded
01:21:45.720
to there there was some questions there that were some fertile ground but you know he couldn't square
01:21:49.980
the circle here uh just your takeaway on on what you saw this week but also does it have an impact
01:21:56.100
on the race we're still hearing that it's incredibly tight right yeah um they're eating the cats um okay
01:22:03.400
i uh that's a panic button if i ever heard one right oh the meme of that is just it's delicious but um
01:22:09.480
i gotta say delicious i don't know yeah i don't know if the average voter is big reached by by that i think
01:22:19.480
that um the challenge here for for kamala harris is the fact that as we saw in this in this debate um
01:22:26.240
donald trump says insane things um and he also uses a lot of racist dog whistles and the debate did not
01:22:36.000
move the needle um as much as i think people thought it would so i think um what what she has
01:22:43.040
to do is she she has to she has to sell herself on herself not you know to the independent voter not
01:22:49.200
not um not just bash trump because trump trump is what trump is and i think people know that and
01:22:54.620
this debate showed that trump is what trump is and if you believe in not i think it's not even about
01:22:59.520
trump it's what he represents which is i hate to say it but it's it's uh the revolt of angry
01:23:05.600
midwest white america um there's a very i was horrified actually by some of the the the the
01:23:12.560
racist overtones of this debate like if you had to read between the lines but really really upsetting
01:23:16.560
um because it is this this polarization that you're seeing in american politics i think it's
01:23:22.160
maybe always been there but it was it's so stark now and um you know that that's the one thing i think
01:23:28.060
that in canada when we compare ourselves to the u.s that is the thing that i think we don't have
01:23:32.540
we we are turning we're turning against immigration though this is this is a problem this government's
01:23:37.220
done just to bring it home for a second um in a way that is upsetting too because it leads down
01:23:42.180
these kinds of paths we don't want to go there um but in the u.s i think for her her challenge is
01:23:47.280
really to say hey you know what i am you know i am really the the the the smart alternative the
01:23:54.400
capable alternative she has to go to the people and and if she i think if she does that i don't think
01:23:59.980
the debate's going to change things but i think if she does that she will get people out to the
01:24:03.760
poll she's not going to convince the trump voters they're they're not going to change but she will
01:24:07.720
get people out to the polls to vote for her and that's the go tv get out the vote piece i think
01:24:12.060
is going to be crucial for this election and we'll wait to see i guess the campaign reacts i guess just
01:24:16.460
to put a point on the final point on the ohio thing as well governor mike dewine is a republican he's
01:24:21.440
out you know urging you know trump and vance to stop this stuff this week that they're having trouble in
01:24:26.000
in springfield but this is not the way to kind of go about it so uh we are all raising concerns
01:24:30.700
there so just to put a point on that but uh carl belanger warren could sell attach a carrot and thank
01:24:34.560
you so much for your time and thoughts on this today i really appreciate it thank you