The KinsellaCast is a weekly podcast hosted by Warren on the theme of the week featuring interviews with Canadian political leaders from the past, present and future. This week, Warren talks about his weekend with the Hot Nasties, his new song "Blue Eyes or Eleanor" and much, much more.
00:01:45.120And no Brian Lilly, he's on his way to a football game.
00:01:52.340John Mraz couldn't get to him at the right time, so we're going to try next weekend.
00:01:56.860And so it's just me with Greg Brady, Alex Pearson, Tasha Carradine, Carl Belanger.
00:02:02.700It's a lot of radio stuff and me speaking to you live, like right now.
00:02:06.020And I wrote a letter to Justin Trudeau.
00:02:08.980And it's on the front of the Sun Papers today.
00:02:13.720And basically, you know, I said, Justin, look, unhappy members of the Liberal Party Caucus are getting ready to send you a letter, so we're told, asking you to leave.
00:02:23.660And like several million Canadians like me want you to go as well.
00:02:29.380But we're going to take a different kind of approach.
00:02:32.920The caucus letter is probably going to be like 90% sucking up and about 10% getting to the subject matter.
00:02:38.840But the message I wanted to deliver to him in the unlikely event he ever reads our newspaper is he's got to go.
00:03:13.700So, you know, I said to Justin, look, your party's unpopularity wasn't really a policy per se.
00:03:20.280Like, for sure, Pierre Paliyev convinced a lot of people that the carbon tax is the reason why every sparrow falls from the sky.
00:03:27.320But after he becomes prime minister and people still need to get a second mortgage to fill up the gas tank, they're going to realize that axing the tax, right, it made for a great bumper sticker.
00:03:40.120But killing it wasn't the cure for every ill.
00:03:44.040So, no, it wasn't a policy thing, I think, that put him on endangered species list and his gang.
00:03:49.320And, you know, we've watched him for the past decade or so.
00:03:54.080And certainly my view is, you know, calling him names and getting mad at him does not work.
00:11:00.040And the campaign I helped run for Gord Campbell, where we got more of the popular vote for the B.C. Liberals, but we still lost to the NDP, much in the way that seemed to be happening last night, because the NDP vote in British Columbia is way more efficient.
00:11:19.920And so, you know, they can underperform and still do well.
00:11:24.200So I think they're back, not just by virtue of this one-seat margin that they've got, but the Green Party, even though the Green Party leader apparently lost her seat last night.
00:11:34.900They've got a couple seats now in the ledge from Saanich and the sea to sky, you know, between Whistler and Vancouver.
00:11:43.880And it looks like, you know, they'll pledge support to the Greens, to the NDP.
00:11:50.640So a bright spot for Team Orange in British Columbia last night.
00:11:55.180And the Tory leader, Conservative leader, John Rustad, also saying that he's promising to force another election at the first opportunity.
00:12:01.460So it could be in another campaign mode here soon.
00:12:03.860But I guess, Tasha, is this kind of a, is this a loss to the Conservatives, considering the polling had them kind of a little bit further ahead than this?
00:12:11.780Well, John Rustad is certainly not painting it as that.
00:12:15.940And I'm not sure that the NDP will end up in the catbird seat.
00:12:20.280There are nine ridings that are less than 100 votes in terms of margin, and they have to be recounted October 26th to 28th.
00:12:27.960So we won't know for another week, essentially, whether the NDP will hold on.
00:12:35.160And the fact that the Conservatives came from, I think, at 2% in the last election to this is a huge advance.
00:12:46.860But I think what it shows is it shows the degree of frustration, and it bodes, you know, it bodes well, actually, federally,
00:12:55.220when you look at sort of the crossover in terms of some of the ideas and policies that the NDP, that the Conservatives were putting forward in B.C.
00:13:02.100It's very similar to what the Conservatives are proposing federally.
00:13:05.480So for the Conservatives federally, I think it is actually a very good sign that the Conservatives did so well here.
00:13:11.480And, Carl, I guess for the NDP here, is this a win for David Eby's government in a sense of, you know, it wasn't as bad as it could have been?
00:13:23.240But, you know, clearly there was some fatigue in the province, and people were willing to cast their vote for a party that is quite extreme,
00:13:37.140with a leader that was kicked out of the previous incarnation of the B.C. liberals for his extreme views, notably on climate change.
00:13:47.020And now he almost became premier last night.
00:13:50.680And as Tasha said, he may yet, depending on those closed seats.
00:13:56.940So, you know, I think the Democrats will hope that the result's old,
00:14:02.860and they will hope that the Greens will play ball nicely, like they did back when Gordon Campbell lost.
00:14:12.000The reality, though, is that it's going to be a very interesting time in British Columbia,
00:14:22.000because the margin is so thin that there's no room for error.
00:14:27.660There's no room for an MLA making, you know, stupid comments being kicked out.
00:14:35.020And so you could be in another election within a year if people are not careful.
00:14:41.960Yeah, a floor crossing away from something a little bit more, obviously, becoming an issue for the party as well.
00:14:49.920Turning our attention to federal politics, let's stick with the horse race kind of politics here when we're talking about potential elections here.
00:14:56.160We heard this week four more cabinet ministers announcing that they are not running in the next election for the Trudeau government.
00:15:01.280These are Marie-Claude Bibeau, Carla Qualtrough, Dan Vandell, and Fliomia Tassi.
00:15:42.380And you've got every columnist in the country, me included, writing about why he's got to go.
00:15:48.420He's got to go, you know, for the good of the country and for the good of the Liberal Party.
00:15:52.460But I still, I'm clinging to my theory, my little lifeboat, I think I'm the only one in it, is that he's waiting for U.S. presidential.
00:16:02.440I think it's now dawning on all of us, as this panel's been talking about for weeks, that Donald Trump can win and may, in fact, win.
00:16:10.020And I don't know what you guys have experienced, but in the past few days, as that started to dawn on people in this country, they are freaking out.
00:16:19.720People cannot believe that this is happening in the United States.
00:16:23.540And, you know, federal conservatives who think that that doesn't have implications for voting choices up here are dreaming in technicolor.
00:16:31.600It will affect what people think up here.
00:16:33.900And, Tasha, before I get back to Trudeau here, have you seen that as well, in a sense, of if Donald Trump wins, do you think that is a disadvantage for Pierre Polio?
00:16:44.400I think, yes, it has the potential there.
00:16:47.300And I think that's been Trudeau's gambit all along.
00:16:50.880One of the things that he's sort of holding out is hoping, praying for Trump.
00:16:54.540I think I said this in August, actually, because it's one of the things that he could use.
00:17:00.800And at this point, he's really run out of liens.
00:17:13.740He's definitely his performance this week at the Foreign Interference Inquirer indicates he's not going anywhere unless he's literally, I don't know, pushed off a cliff.
00:17:21.700And the liberals have no mechanism for doing that in their party.
00:17:31.700And I think, yeah, the U.S. election is factoring into his decision.
00:17:35.160And just back to to to my original point, just talk about, I guess, four cabinet ministers leading this week.
00:17:39.860Does that change anything for you or is it still much the same in terms of it seems like this is, well, at least untenable, according to the polls for the prime minister here?
00:17:50.020I think, look, I think the four cabinet ministers leaving the day after his bravura performance is an additional knife in the back, because he was trying to shore up morale in a sense to say, look, I've got something on the conservative.
00:18:27.260And, Carl, this is adding to the course here.
00:18:29.040Does this change the calculus for you for more cabinet ministers?
00:18:31.780Or is this kind of much the same until we actually see some some action from the liberal party to to possibly push push Trudeau out?
00:18:38.000Well, I think this shows, in fact, that the prime minister's office and prime minister has not fully lost control of of the B.C., of the liberal caucus.
00:18:48.660The fact that they're coming out all the same day is because they've been going around.
00:18:53.940They've been doing their own work and they've been asking ministers if they were running again or not.
00:19:00.960So please, I'll announce it on the same day so I can do a shuffle and I can reward some MPs that might be upset right now and might be part of that rebellion.
00:19:11.740And then you manage caucus that way by giving some some some some rewards that that way it is easier to manage than if everybody's upset.
00:19:22.640Because now you have some some some backbenchers who are hoping to make it into the cabinet, which, you know, makes makes it a little more difficult to rally the troops beyond a push,
00:19:34.560especially when there's only two MPs have come forward publicly with their name calling for his resignation.
00:19:56.580But, you know, I think there's a bit of delusion delusion on the left in Canada that people are really afraid of Donald Trump and they will not vote for the conservatives because of that.
00:20:08.380Look what just happened in B.C. last night.
00:20:10.240I mean, the B.C. conservatives are the most extreme incarnation of politics that can that almost got into office in this country.
00:20:18.780They are very far to the right there to the right of Daniel Smith.
00:20:24.380And yet in and, you know, the socialist paradise of British Columbia, they almost won government.
00:20:31.520So I think people are open to vote for parties that are way right if if they're tired of the party in power.
00:20:43.320Definitely a good tag for B.C. socialist paradise.
00:20:46.480I mentioned kind of combining a couple of these issues.
00:20:49.460You're just talking about the prime minister here.
00:20:51.220I think, Carl, I'll start with you on this one.
00:20:53.060Just the idea here of the prime minister is clearly down and out politically and in the polls here.
00:20:57.480But I thought that what he did at the foreign interference inquiry this week showed that he can still pack a political punch when he needs to.
00:21:05.020But obviously, we were talking about this in the context of the the hearings that were going on this week.
00:21:10.280We did hear from the prime minister, which is just notable that he's testifying at something like this.
00:21:14.940It's not very often you see a prime minister testify at something like this.
00:21:18.500But but he had kind of turned the tables and said, I'm not being partisan here, but basically there's spies within the conservative party.
00:21:25.160So it's just kind of interesting in that sense of, you know, being able to kind of turn the tables.
00:21:30.380We were talking about that for 24 hours.
00:21:31.940But I don't know if if the liberals are able to kind of escape with a win on this issue.
00:21:36.580Just your thoughts on his, I guess, politicking on this issue this week.
00:21:40.380Yeah, I mean, he was absolutely being partisan and frankly, quite irresponsible.
00:21:44.540But, you know, from a political perspective, totally put the monkey on the back of Pierre Poirier,
00:21:50.700who has to, you know, manage the fact that he refused to get a clearance and he refused to know what's happening in his own caucus.
00:21:57.680That said, for the prime minister to just say that, you know, there may be parliamentarians from the conservatives,
00:22:03.460former parliamentarians, candidates who may have been involved, might get involved, are at risk of being involved.
00:22:10.820But, you know, it's a shot in the dark.
00:22:16.540But tactically, it worked because, you know, people went after Pierre Poirier after that.
00:22:23.600But the reality is that if we have people that are involved in political interference,
00:22:27.420in foreign interference, we need to know who they are.
00:22:30.800We need to know what they did, what they're accused of doing.
00:22:33.720And for whom, you can't just say, oh, well, yeah, conservatives are involved in foreign interference without backing it up with any kind of fact.
00:22:41.920And that's where I was disappointed with the inquiries counselor, because they were not digging into what was happening.
00:22:52.860And he let the prime minister get away with making this vague statement.
00:22:56.660Yeah, the conservative lawyer, I guess, giving a little bit more of a tougher cross-examination in the afternoon.
00:23:02.320But at that point, the message kind of already out there.
00:23:04.960Warren, if you're looking at this, I know there's concerns and obviously questions about surrounding the liberals kind of involvement in some kind of foreign interference or what have you.
00:23:13.240That's kind of where these hearings are all coming.
00:23:14.960Do you see, did the liberals lose or win on this this week, particularly the prime minister?
00:23:20.340I thought his, I agree with everything Carl said.
00:23:22.840I thought her, his performance, the game he played there was shameful for an interference in our democracy is a serious topic.
00:23:32.640But, you know, I don't think a lot, I don't think Joe and Jane front porch are waking up during the middle of the night and saying, you know, what's happening at the Hogue inquiry?
00:23:40.500It's not captivating people, the issue in the way that past issues have.
00:23:45.960So the prime minister, you know, is just being what he's been for the past couple of years, which is a partisan political animal who places his own interests ahead of, you know, good governance.
00:23:59.760However, he did have, so that didn't hurt him.
00:24:04.060I just, you know, I thought it was really regrettable he did that.
00:24:06.660What did help him is, you know, for the conservatives to say that, you know, his confrontation with the government of India on their interference in our democracy is all about politics.
00:24:21.180I think the Americans really threw him a lifeline this week because they announced that they, too, are seeking an Indian government official associated with a foiled murder plot.
00:24:34.320They haven't caught that guy yet, but it validates what Trudeau has said.
00:24:40.440And it, I think, suggests to a lot of people that India really is involved in this extraordinary effort to kill opponents of that regime in places like Canada and the United States.
00:24:52.620And it did cross into a few different stories this week with the foreign interference and the ongoing spat with India as well.
00:24:59.580Now, I guess both of those kind of, Tasha, I know you wrote about foreign interference this week, but kind of invoking India as well.
00:25:05.380But I know you see this as more of a political distraction than anything else, the prime minister's comments at the foreign interference inquiry.
00:25:11.440Yeah, I think it was a great play to turn the tables on Polyev and the conservatives and throw shade.
00:25:20.880And it made me wonder, does he have other shade to throw?
00:25:26.180So now we're going to say, hey, it's on you guys.
00:25:29.940You know, you're the ones who are harboring spies because you're not taking the responsibility of getting a security clearance and learning who the names are and rooting these people out.
00:25:37.660Of course, the question then became, well, what are you doing with people in your party, Mr. Trudeau?
00:25:41.920And he didn't really have a great answer for that.
00:28:55.900People are turning against immigration because the government has allowed it to basically damage the country instead of uphold it, to fray the social fabric.
00:29:04.420And that is on them that they have done this.
00:29:08.180We are a country of immigrants, and now people are turning against immigration because they don't like what they see.
00:29:13.100And, Carl, you know, as Tasha is kind of mentioning, there are obviously some domestic political aspirations at play here, I think, for the Liberals in many ways.
00:29:20.540We've also kind of got this direct confrontation that's happening internationally as well.
00:29:24.000So timing, of course, is suspect, I think, with everything kind of going on in Parliament Hill right now.
00:29:28.600But were the Liberals right to kind of make such a heavy-handed reaction here to the Indian government?
00:29:34.520Well, yeah, the timing is certainly interesting.
00:29:37.400And the Prime Minister was in Laos, and he met with the Indian Prime Minister Modi then.
00:29:42.560So it could have happened much quicker.
00:29:45.120That said, at the beginning of the week, when it first unfolded, I thought, you know, well, here we go again.
00:29:52.360And Canada is at war diplomatically with China, and we're at war publicly with India, and we're alone, except that in the following days, as Warren mentioned,
00:30:03.700the United States stepped up and mentioned that we're going after an Indian national or at least an agent.
00:30:11.100You saw the United Kingdom and Australia backing up Canada.
00:30:14.620And so I think that the fact that the allies are paying attention to what's going on and are stepping up the pressure on the Indian government shows that Canada is not alone
00:30:27.740and is acting appropriately considering what happened.
00:30:32.820And I think that for Canada, it was a good omen.
00:30:38.840And, Warren, kind of last words, you kind of mentioned that the U.S. kind of throwing a lifeline to Canada in your estimation.
00:30:44.620And in terms of kind of doubling down on some of the allegations that are being made here, very similar in nature in many ways.
00:30:50.180Has the Canadian government, though, the Trudeau government, handled this correctly in terms of its response?
00:30:55.260Well, in fairness to the politicians on both sides of the border, you know, like maybe some people in the public think that the politicians control
00:31:04.040when the police disclose somebody is being sought or somebody is being charged.
00:35:19.320This thing has been around from 2011, operating out of Vancouver.
00:35:23.720And they have an affiliation and a link to the IRGC.
00:35:28.460And they are and have been out there fueling the hate of these protests that you see all over this country.
00:35:36.320You see their signature, their logos all over the flags, flying the streets, putting Jews under threat.
00:35:43.860And so, again, when the prime minister says, look, we will not tolerate this type of activity, I will remind you,
00:35:49.480it was Pierre Polyev just last week that had to have been demanding that this group be listed as a terror entity.
00:35:55.200And again, driving the conversation, here we are.
00:35:58.900And this, of course, comes just a day after on Yom Kippur, where you had a Jewish girls school again for the second time shot up overnight.
00:36:44.360It is a good day, unless it's just unless it's just a headline.
00:36:49.840Well, it looks for real when you're designated as a terrorist entity in Canada.
00:36:54.980It has real implications in terms of, you know, having a bank account, you know, occupying office space.
00:37:02.860All of the things that Samadun has been doing.
00:37:05.940You know, I think Polyev deserves a lot of credit here for calling for this, for anticipating that this was going to happen.
00:37:12.040And with this terrorist group, it is wonderful to finally be able to say what the truth is.
00:37:17.360And Trudeau, I think, looks bad on it because he gave his government, gave Samadun, this Vancouver-based terror group, non-profit status under federal law in 2021.
00:37:29.220And, you know, they didn't have to pay taxes.
00:37:32.000They can receive and give gifts and donations.
00:38:08.320She's been facing a hate speech investigation.
00:38:11.360Recently, the B.C. police, they said they couldn't charge her.
00:38:14.140And I'm not sure that she was charged back in May, but they couldn't they couldn't somewhat charge her still under investigation.
00:38:20.020And I don't understand, Warren, how it is so difficult for police forces in this country to understand what hate is.
00:38:26.320You've got the chief Demke coming out last night saying we need more clarification on hate laws in this country.
00:38:30.640But again, I don't get the sense that they're helping the matter because they don't actually use the laws that exist to go after these people or the Charlotte Cates.
00:38:38.660And I don't understand it either, because in April, she stood on the steps of the Vancouver Art Gallery and said the following.
00:38:50.220We stand with the brave Palestinian resistance and their heroic and brave action on October 7th.
00:38:55.820The brave, beautiful, heroic resistance of Palestinian people.
00:38:59.560That's what she called Hamas and Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front from the Liberation of Palestine, which is also a designated terrorist entity, which is also, according to the PFLP, an organization that her husband belongs to.
00:39:15.440Like the warning signs have been flashing on Samadun and this couple for years.
00:39:21.760And it like it's well overdue that this action be taken.
00:39:24.960My suspicion is it happened because the Trudeau guys are now feeling heat over similar type of activity on the Indian file.
00:39:33.300They needed to be seen to be getting tough on terror.
00:39:50.760You know, which way do you turn a page better than just to accuse another country of doing something?
00:39:55.340And I'm not saying India has not done anything.
00:39:57.080You know, we'll we'll find out with the investigations.
00:39:59.040But if he had this reaction to any of the other stuff that we've seen in the last year, you know, OK, but we haven't.
00:40:05.440Right. It's just all of a sudden he's he's concerned about India.
00:40:08.060But I'm like the hate's been around for a long time with a number of groups and they've never acted like this, whether it was China, Hamas, Iran, whatever.
00:40:14.640And that's exactly the column I wrote this morning and in post media is like, well, you know, the allegation against India is, you know, murder or attempted murder threats, assaults, intimidation.
00:40:27.460Well, the same thing's been happening in Canada to Jews for for more than a year, you know, shooting up of schools for little Jewish kids in Montreal and Toronto, firebombing businesses and synagogues and community centers that serve the Jewish community.
00:40:42.100And then Samadun, Samadun saying just last week, death to Canada and and doubling down on it and saying how much they approve of the murderous activity of Hamas on October the 7th.
00:40:56.020So, like, yeah, the warning bills have been going off on this one for a long time.
00:40:59.940And, you know, just most recently, Kate's traveled to Iran, an outlaw nation, to receive their eighth annual Islamic Human Rights Award.
00:41:09.300And she received that award with the head of the Hamas Political Bureau, who is off with the 72 virgins now, with the Iranian foreign minister, who was killed by that helicopter crash in March.
00:41:24.420And and Hanye, who is the head, it was basically that he runs the ninth circle of hell and the IRGC.
00:41:32.100Like, that's who she was receiving an award with.
00:41:35.840And it was like at that point, it became absurd that Canada, unlike Germany, unlike Israel, unlike the Dutch parliaments, which last week made the same decision.
00:41:44.640We were allowing this organization to to continue and flourish in Canada.
00:41:49.740Well, that's changed. But as you say, it could have been done years ago.
00:41:53.600Yeah. I mean, Monty Python would just have a heyday in this country.
00:41:56.640Sorry. God bless them. Just quickly, Warren, then before I let you go, they're not the only one.
00:42:01.600There's still more to root out. But what happens now from here with this?
00:42:06.820Because, you know, you just have to look at the logos, the flags, you'll see it.
00:42:10.120And there are there are other groups out there. And so I don't think we're going to see arrests.
00:42:14.920Right. The thing is, if they don't if the law enforcement and the politicians don't really believe in the hate laws that we have,
00:42:21.380I don't see anything changing other than the fact that they get their charitable status taken away.
00:42:27.100Well, again, you know, with the Trudeau guys, you know, they never cease to disappoint.
00:42:30.840But with Polyev likely coming to power, you know, sometime in the next few months,
00:42:35.700they've been I think some blood is running cold with some of these organizations in Canada right now
00:42:41.140that have been coming very close to the line and leading these hateful marches in our streets
00:42:45.620and spewing hatred online and on university campuses.
00:42:49.740Some of those organizations need to be taking a very careful look this morning
00:42:53.860about what the consequences of the Samadun decision made for them.
00:42:58.280Because easily, as you point out, any one of those organizations is engaged in the same type of behavior
00:43:04.380as Kate's and her husband and Samadun.
00:43:07.120And now they are designated as terrorists.
00:43:10.600So, you know, hopefully some of these organizations are going to pull back and change their ways.
00:43:15.620Or they get the same kind of designation that Samadun has.
00:43:19.260What a time. Boy, oh boy. What a time in this country.
00:43:22.200Thank you, sir. You were well, well ahead on that money trail. Appreciate it.