kinsellacast - KINSELLACAST 358： It's Easter! Short show, with Kheiriddin, Belanger, Mulroney

00:00:00.000 It's the KinsellaCast, starring Warren Kinsella.

00:00:24.180 Hey, it's Warren, welcome to the KinsellaCast, and happy Easter.

00:00:28.820 We had a quiet one.

00:00:31.260 I was up early and did CFRA, which I'm going to play for you with Tasha Garibald, Carl Belogian.

00:00:38.660 And then we went into Bloomfield and Pinkton.

00:00:41.220 We bought books, I bought a book of poetry, got some used clothes, got some Easter candy.

00:00:47.600 I forgot to get that, so I got it late.

00:00:51.120 I got some soap, said hi to people.

00:00:54.500 I like living here, mostly.

00:00:57.260 Unfortunately, I was in Toronto when the pandemic hit.

00:01:02.500 My kids were all grown, and it was in that two-week period, I'm sure you remember, when it felt credible that the world was going to end.

00:01:11.540 So I figured, well, if the world's going to end, I may as well do it at my old farmhouse in Prince Edward County.

00:01:16.200 So I loaded up the dogs and a bit of stuff, headed to the county.

00:01:20.400 And the world did not end, but I stayed.

00:01:25.120 And, like, you can pull it off if you have a good internet connection out here and if you're prepared to drive back and forth a lot.

00:01:33.380 So I take Highway 2.

00:01:34.800 It's safer and it's nicer than the 401.

00:01:36.980 Anyway, I'm just back from a 10K bike hike.

00:01:41.520 I love it out there, especially when there's nobody around.

00:01:45.680 My therapist once asked me what I'd do if I fell and hurt myself, which I've done, but couldn't get up.

00:01:53.940 And I told them, well, I'd just lay there.

00:01:56.300 And I'd die by looking up at the birds in the sky.

00:01:59.460 There's worse ways to go, I think.

00:02:02.000 Anyway, I've got a short show this week.

00:02:04.660 Ben Moroney and I and Tasha and Carl.

00:02:07.040 I gave Brian and John and other people the week off because it is Easter after all.

00:02:12.960 I'd hoped to have Doug Ford on.

00:02:15.200 And that was the plan, but he was busy, you know, being premier and all that stuff.

00:02:19.920 So maybe soon.

00:02:20.720 But I've got some drug, church, and military gun, and Frank Carter.

00:02:24.180 Frank Carter, lately, he's fronting the Sex Pistols.

00:02:27.860 I'm going to go see them in October.

00:02:29.020 Anyway, so I was in a hardcore mood.

00:02:31.120 Not very Easter-ish, I know, but there you go.

00:02:35.380 I'm heading to Israel, I should mention, for a couple weeks on Tuesday, I leave.

00:02:43.540 So the next couple shows are going to be from over there.

00:02:46.580 And I guess I'll be watching the election returns from over there, too.

00:02:51.280 Maybe I'll sleep through some of it.

00:02:53.960 And on that, I wanted to give you some observations from the past week.

00:02:57.880 And like in my ongoing Pollyanna role during election 2025, honestly, I think Carney or Polyev acquitted themselves, not or, and Polyev acquitted themselves well in the debates.

00:03:11.780 And either guy would make a suitable prime minister.

00:03:15.440 And that's something, you know, that the Americans haven't been able to say for many years.

00:03:20.180 We voted, because we're going to be away, in the first day of the advance polls, like about 2 million other people.

00:03:29.000 And I'm in a rural area, as noted, so it always leans blue.

00:03:33.980 But there was lots of gray hair, well, except for E, and MPs and staffers and pollsters have all told me that gray hair equals Carney supporter this cycle, like without exception, almost.

00:03:47.180 But the debates are done, the candidates are finalized, the vote happens in just over a week.

00:03:52.560 So who do you vote for?

00:03:53.820 As before, as before, I sat down with pen and paper and listed what was good and bad about the two main party leaders, because both Polyev and Carney had pluses and minuses.

00:04:08.320 So I even made it into a cartoon, which people liked.

00:04:11.620 So here's what I came up with, and I'll do the negatives first.

00:04:14.640 So Polyev, he can be Trumpy, like I'm sorry, Tory partisans, but it's true.

00:04:21.500 It's the main reason you guys are losing, too.

00:04:26.260 Polyev's never really worked in the real world, like he's a professional politician.

00:04:30.740 He was fully penchant in his 30s.

00:04:33.580 He's never had to meet a payroll, like those things matter.

00:04:37.740 Polyev wastes time on culture war stuff.

00:04:41.120 He rails against wokeism and whatnot.

00:04:44.640 Which is base loves, but it is alienated, the gettable vote, women in particular.

00:04:50.360 And he's made mistakes.

00:04:52.140 His footsie with the convoy crowd, the anti-WEF conspiracy theory bullshit, the hostility towards vaccines.

00:05:02.160 And all those things are in their rear view now, I agree.

00:05:06.260 But they still show up in Google searches.

00:05:09.580 Carney's negatives, he's really bad on Israel and China.

00:05:14.640 Like, he's got a couple dozen candidates who openly hate the Jewish state.

00:05:19.360 He's been really unfair to Israel, which, remember, didn't start the war.

00:05:24.240 They were the victim of October 7th.

00:05:27.000 And Carney's unclear on what should be a crystal clear moral question.

00:05:31.740 And on China, he too often sounds indifferent to the real threat,

00:05:36.340 the manifest threat posed by that dictatorship.

00:05:41.800 His Trudeau links are a problem, too.

00:05:43.740 He advised Trudeau.

00:05:44.800 And Trudeau's advisors advise him.

00:05:47.440 You know, and he says that Trudeau's gone.

00:05:49.500 That's true.

00:05:51.100 But Trudeau's circle and key policy's gone?

00:05:54.140 Not really.

00:05:55.060 Take a look at his platform.

00:05:56.440 I talk about it on CFRA this week.

00:05:59.120 Carney's got no political experience.

00:06:00.740 And he's tried to turn that into an asset, understandably.

00:06:04.740 But when facing off against the likes of Trump, political experience matters.

00:06:08.940 Like, it helps.

00:06:10.920 And finally, his negatives are, you know, he leads a party that's been in power for too long.

00:06:17.400 They've reached their best before date.

00:06:19.980 Like, the Liberal Party desperately needs new blood and new ideas and new approaches.

00:06:24.620 They need a time out.

00:06:28.620 Both men have lots of positives, however.

00:06:31.640 So here's what I came up with in my list making.

00:06:34.500 Paliyev is really good on Israel.

00:06:36.840 Actually, he's great on Israel and foreign interference, much more than Carney.

00:06:40.700 He lets you know where he stands on important moral questions.

00:06:45.460 And he's on the right side for democracy and civilization and our national interests and all that's good.

00:06:52.180 He's great on energy, too, I think.

00:06:53.840 Like, we're a natural resource country, folks.

00:06:57.800 Paliyev doesn't want to leave our natural resources in the ground.

00:07:01.660 Duh.

00:07:03.140 Given the Trump threat to our economy, we need to get our commodities to new markets.

00:07:08.040 And energy is part of that.

00:07:10.800 Paliyev's got a reasonable plan.

00:07:12.580 Like, we in the media too often get sucked into horse race and strategy coverage bullshit.

00:07:17.400 We don't pay close enough attention to what the party's platforms say.

00:07:20.420 And for those who check, they'll see that Paliyev has a smart, balanced plan.

00:07:25.120 It isn't radical at all.

00:07:27.480 And he's actually anti-elite.

00:07:31.320 Like, the party with the policies that are friendliest to workers and the little guy in this campaign, ironically, is Paliyev.

00:07:39.320 And that's why so many trade unions have endorsed him.

00:07:42.660 Boots before suits, as he puts it.

00:07:45.820 Carney's positives, he's got lots, too.

00:07:48.280 He's really smart on the economy.

00:07:50.380 And to me, unsurprisingly, he is arguably the best candidate for PM since my former boss, Jean Chrétien.

00:07:57.940 And given that we face a major economic existential threat from the U.S., that is a big, big asset.

00:08:04.720 He towers over the competition on economics.

00:08:07.900 Also, until his platform came out, I thought he was a blue grit.

00:08:13.300 If you listen to him carefully, you'll agree that he is the most fiscally conservative liberal leader since Chrétien.

00:08:19.880 He wants to move his party closer to the ideological center, I thought, which is desperately needed.

00:08:25.380 But he's a stinker on energy, as noted.

00:08:27.320 And I thought he was an economic centrist until his platform came out.

00:08:33.300 Maybe he still is.

00:08:34.060 I don't know.

00:08:34.500 But the platform is problematic.

00:08:36.760 It's going to result in our credit rating being lowered.

00:08:39.500 Just guaranteed.

00:08:40.820 He's boring in a good way.

00:08:42.260 Like, Trudeau was obviously despised by Trump with the 51st state stuff and the governor's stuff and all that.

00:08:47.860 But Carney somehow has calmed Trump down since assuming the title of prime minister.

00:08:52.920 And like at any other time, being a boring, bland banker would be a political negative.

00:08:59.260 Like, it would be.

00:09:00.380 But now that Canada is the political equivalent of your grandma's apartment atop a meth lab, bland and boring is welcome.

00:09:09.860 Final thing, he likes the clash.

00:09:12.320 Sorry, everybody.

00:09:13.460 It's my list.

00:09:14.120 It's not your list.

00:09:15.340 When I watched Carney interviewed by my friend Nardwar, the human serviette,

00:09:20.020 and Carney knew the name of the first-class drummer off the top of his head,

00:09:25.060 well, that's reason enough to vote for him right there.

00:09:29.100 Anyway, I don't vote for Pierre Polyevre or Mark Carney.

00:09:32.780 Like most of you, I vote directly for the local candidates in my locality.

00:09:38.460 I check them out.

00:09:39.820 I carefully check out what they say.

00:09:42.400 You should do likewise.

00:09:44.420 And while you're at it, do up a list of your own and vote.

00:09:50.020 Israel, here I come.

00:09:52.200 I was taken on water.

00:10:20.200 I was taken on water, trying to get back to land.

00:10:25.200 I froze.

00:10:26.840 I froze.

00:10:28.200 I froze.

00:10:30.900 Too busy trying to keep myself out of trouble.

00:10:34.660 I just didn't understand.

00:10:37.960 I froze.

00:10:39.660 I froze.

00:10:41.100 I froze.

00:10:42.040 I Mamendeze.

00:10:43.040 I5-Pro chatty vielen

00:10:45.040 I saw you were waving

00:10:46.040 Turns out you're drowning

00:10:49.220 Really wish I could read your mind

00:10:54.960 I thought you were waving

00:10:58.260 Turns out you were drowning

00:11:03.020 Pull me down, just save me next time

00:11:07.900 Well, now I saw you through the window of another burning house

00:11:19.240 I just thought you'd live there so I went and shut my mouth

00:11:22.740 I froze, I froze, I froze

00:11:28.220 Hanging up a cliff so you reach for my hand

00:11:32.100 You keep giving signals that I don't understand

00:11:35.000 I froze, I froze, I froze

00:11:39.940 I thought you were waving

00:11:44.180 Turns out you were drowning

00:11:47.360 Really wish I could breathe in your mind

00:11:53.420 I thought you were waving

00:11:56.960 Turns out you were drowning

00:12:00.180 Pull me down, just save me next time

00:12:05.120 Well, now I saw you were waving

00:12:16.300 Turns out you were drowning

00:12:19.380 Really wish I could breathe in your mind

00:12:24.320 Oh, now I thought you were waving

00:12:29.260 Turns out you were drowning

00:12:32.500 Pull me down, just save me next time

00:12:37.580 If you've been waiting and waiting and waiting

00:12:45.000 Pull me down, just save me next time

00:12:49.940 This is CFRA Live, Sunday Political Panel

00:12:56.620 And welcome to it on this Easter Sunday

00:13:01.760 Joining us for our panel this morning

00:13:03.460 Tasha Carradine, political columnist for the National Post

00:13:05.740 A writer for GZERO Media and an author

00:13:07.780 Tasha, good morning

00:13:08.820 Good morning

00:13:09.980 Warren Kinsella is here, strategist and post-media columnist

00:13:13.000 You can read his latest in the Toronto Sun

00:13:15.260 Warren, good morning

00:13:16.480 Morning, sir

00:13:17.660 And Carl Belanger, president at Traction Strategies

00:13:20.420 Thanks for joining us, Carl

00:13:21.440 Oh, it looks like we lost Carl there for a sec

00:13:25.540 It's alright, the Easter Bunny will go get him

00:13:26.840 The Easter Bunny

00:13:27.360 Yeah, that's right

00:13:28.260 Great minds

00:13:29.620 It's also the final day of Passover for those who celebrate

00:13:32.480 So Happy Easter, Passover if you will

00:13:34.440 If you are celebrating

00:13:35.200 I'm sure there's many people out there

00:13:37.200 That would like to pass over the final stages

00:13:39.360 Of this election campaign

00:13:40.580 I kind of want to work back to the debates this week

00:13:43.640 But a few points of news from the campaign trail this weekend

00:13:45.840 Won 2 million Canadians voting in advance polls on Friday

00:13:50.060 So congratulations, Canadians

00:13:51.460 That's a record according to Elections Canada

00:13:53.640 Now, normally this would be evidence of kind of a change election, guys

00:13:57.640 But as we know, it's not really a typical election

00:14:00.660 Is there anything, Tash, I'll start with you

00:14:02.540 Is there anything that we should be taking from seeing the long lineups of the polls

00:14:05.600 The last couple of days?

00:14:06.580 Well, democracy is alive and well in Canada

00:14:10.200 Here we go

00:14:11.280 Honestly, I don't

00:14:12.400 I also don't know if it's a harbinger for one party or another

00:14:16.300 I think it just is a sign that people are

00:14:20.520 You know, they want to cast a vote

00:14:23.060 They're interested

00:14:23.680 We saw a surge during COVID for obvious reasons

00:14:26.780 And that has gotten bigger now

00:14:28.500 It's bigger than it was during COVID

00:14:29.740 So that is, I think, a sign that, first of all, advance polls are here to stay

00:14:33.260 But second, people have made up their minds

00:14:35.600 They've made up their choices

00:14:36.580 And they've obviously, they want to vote

00:14:40.140 So, I mean, I think it's a good thing

00:14:41.600 Whoever it benefits, frankly

00:14:43.460 Yeah, no, definitely great for democracy in general

00:14:46.180 In terms of trying to kind of grab a read on this, Warren

00:14:48.540 You know, like I mentioned, right

00:14:50.060 We kind of would typically see something like this as kind of a change election

00:14:52.940 But Tasha brings up a good point

00:14:54.080 It seems we're kind of getting normalized to advance voting as well

00:14:56.660 Is there anything you've taken from the long lines that we're seeing in many cities across the country

00:15:01.640 To line up to vote the last few days?

00:15:03.720 Well, I was in one

00:15:04.740 It was in small town, Ontario

00:15:06.860 And we lined up for about 45 minutes

00:15:11.980 You know, on the very first day of the advance polling

00:15:15.160 And they only had one voting

00:15:17.560 You know, the little cardboard booth thing

00:15:19.700 They only had one of those

00:15:20.860 So that tells me that Elections Canada, at least in my area

00:15:23.820 Did not foresee that 2 million people were going to vote

00:15:27.260 On that very first day of the advance polling

00:15:29.560 So usually that signals bad, bad tidings for a government

00:15:34.960 For an incoming government

00:15:36.280 But like every single head in the lineup ahead of me

00:15:40.980 Was like mine and had grey hair

00:15:43.000 And what I've been told by conservative MPs in this election campaign

00:15:47.440 Is when they knock on doors and there's grey hair

00:15:50.880 They're liberal

00:15:52.020 They're carny voters

00:15:53.380 And young people who traditionally, you know, vote progressive

00:15:57.960 Are the reverse

00:15:59.360 They're voting conservative

00:16:00.660 So like you said off the top

00:16:02.340 This is a totally weird election

00:16:04.140 And further evidence of that

00:16:06.060 Comes in a Main Street poll

00:16:08.460 I don't put a lot of stock in Main Street

00:16:10.760 Because they're usually an outlier

00:16:12.100 But, in fairness

00:16:14.040 Main Street reported last night

00:16:16.360 Or early this morning

00:16:18.340 That the Tories are at 43%

00:16:21.220 And the Liberals are at 39%

00:16:23.740 Everybody else is showing something different

00:16:25.780 But Main Street's saying, at least this morning

00:16:28.440 The Conservative Party's ahead

00:16:29.960 Yeah, and very fascinating poll

00:16:32.360 I mentioned that earlier on the Main Street poll

00:16:34.560 The first poll showing the Conservatives

00:16:36.840 I guess taking the lead once again

00:16:38.500 Across the country

00:16:39.480 So we'll see how that kind of squares out

00:16:41.300 But a data point to put away, no doubt

00:16:42.880 Carl, welcome back

00:16:44.420 I appreciate you being here this morning

00:16:45.740 We were talking a little bit about

00:16:46.940 The poll lineups that we've seen

00:16:49.560 And here in Ottawa was the same thing

00:16:50.800 As what Warren was saying

00:16:51.520 There was a couple of polling places

00:16:52.600 That you had to wait for over an hour

00:16:54.100 In Barhaven and at City Hall

00:16:55.620 What do you kind of make of the huge record numbers

00:16:59.160 That we're seeing so far

00:17:00.000 Two million people on Friday

00:17:01.280 I was saying, you know

00:17:02.540 You could probably normally say

00:17:04.180 It's a change election

00:17:04.940 But there's so many different factors

00:17:06.200 Rolling on here

00:17:06.900 What do you kind of make of that?

00:17:08.840 Well, you know

00:17:10.000 You'll say that if you

00:17:11.760 All the voting on a holiday

00:17:14.120 People will show up

00:17:15.840 As opposed to when they're working

00:17:17.420 So in that sense

00:17:20.120 I think it's good

00:17:20.940 It's bad news for the NDP

00:17:23.920 It's bad news for the blocs

00:17:25.160 It's bad news for the Greens

00:17:26.180 Because it means that

00:17:28.960 People have made up their minds

00:17:30.200 For the two parties

00:17:31.580 That are at the top of the polls

00:17:32.680 And they can't reverse that now

00:17:35.020 Those two million votes are gone

00:17:37.060 So it will be even more difficult now

00:17:40.800 For the smaller parties

00:17:42.400 To make up some ground

00:17:44.020 In the last week

00:17:44.940 For the Liberals

00:17:47.660 I think it's good news

00:17:49.060 But, you know, as Warren said

00:17:50.940 There's different polls

00:17:52.280 Saying different things

00:17:53.440 So it's hard to know

00:17:54.920 Exactly who's benefiting

00:17:56.180 From at the top

00:17:57.280 But who's not benefiting

00:17:59.080 Are the smaller parties

00:18:00.560 Who are trying to make some ground

00:18:01.820 And we'll see

00:18:03.360 You know, the younger vote

00:18:04.700 On election day

00:18:05.280 That'll be the big one

00:18:06.140 It's been showing up in the polls

00:18:07.640 We'll see if it actually shows up

00:18:08.760 To the election poll

00:18:09.760 On election day too

00:18:10.760 But good to see

00:18:11.800 As Tasha was mentioning

00:18:12.600 Good to see just

00:18:13.300 You know, strong democracy

00:18:14.320 People are engaged

00:18:15.240 It's always some great news as well

00:18:17.200 And kind of adding to the fodder

00:18:18.740 This weekend

00:18:19.160 We have seen

00:18:19.900 Debate platform

00:18:21.420 Not debate platform

00:18:22.360 Sorry

00:18:22.680 Campaign platforms

00:18:23.920 Put out

00:18:24.260 Fully costed

00:18:25.040 From both the Liberals

00:18:25.780 And the NDP

00:18:26.360 Just first

00:18:27.500 And Carl

00:18:28.040 Maybe I'll start with you here

00:18:28.940 It's been a pet peeve of mine

00:18:30.400 That these are kind of

00:18:31.040 Getting released later and later

00:18:32.080 In the election campaign

00:18:33.200 The provincial election

00:18:34.100 Was much the same here

00:18:35.520 Do you think people

00:18:36.500 Really care about

00:18:37.320 You know, fully costed platforms

00:18:38.780 The average voter

00:18:39.520 They don't

00:18:41.220 But they should

00:18:42.080 But, you know

00:18:43.660 Most voters

00:18:46.020 Don't go and read

00:18:47.920 Those documents

00:18:48.620 They're not even equipped

00:18:49.860 To understand them

00:18:51.040 So, you know

00:18:52.500 Parties understand now

00:18:53.840 That if you release

00:18:55.420 Your platform early

00:18:56.360 What you're doing

00:18:58.060 Is giving

00:18:58.740 The possibility

00:19:00.060 To the opposition

00:19:01.120 To the other parties

00:19:02.160 To media

00:19:02.820 To academics

00:19:03.500 To go through them

00:19:05.220 With a fine calm

00:19:06.840 And find mistakes

00:19:07.720 And find errors

00:19:08.640 And give ammunition

00:19:10.240 To the opposition

00:19:11.080 To go after you

00:19:12.100 So that's why parties

00:19:13.240 Are not releasing them early

00:19:14.220 Because it's not a document

00:19:15.960 That is useful politically

00:19:17.240 You run on three

00:19:18.580 Four, five points

00:19:19.680 You hammer the message away

00:19:21.500 And that's what you run about

00:19:22.960 And you try to get

00:19:23.800 You know, the right emotions

00:19:25.420 The right feelings

00:19:26.240 You don't win elections

00:19:28.440 On policies

00:19:29.300 It's not the way it works

00:19:30.660 And I think parties

00:19:31.640 Are realizing that

00:19:32.540 If you release

00:19:34.040 Those documents early

00:19:35.000 You just give

00:19:35.940 Ammunition

00:19:36.500 To the other parties

00:19:37.880 Why?

00:19:38.560 Well, because parties

00:19:39.300 Are not that good

00:19:40.140 At writing these things

00:19:42.440 They're not good

00:19:43.900 At making sure

00:19:45.180 That things add up

00:19:46.300 Those things

00:19:48.280 Are changed last minute

00:19:49.300 They are adapted

00:19:50.960 To the dynamic

00:19:52.860 Of the campaign

00:19:53.780 To events

00:19:54.600 And there's always mistakes

00:19:56.800 So therefore

00:19:58.340 Parties are making

00:19:59.520 The decision

00:20:00.080 To not release them early

00:20:01.440 Because they know

00:20:03.120 Voters will not go

00:20:04.160 To read them anyway

00:20:05.340 It's only the journalists

00:20:07.020 The academics

00:20:07.980 And the other parties

00:20:10.580 Are reading them

00:20:11.500 Not the real voters

00:20:13.340 Wait, and just a quick

00:20:14.780 Follow Carl

00:20:15.240 Because it's exactly

00:20:16.080 The kind of the situation

00:20:16.920 You're describing right now

00:20:18.260 Do you think this was

00:20:19.300 A little bit of a misstep

00:20:20.460 In some senses

00:20:21.080 From the liberals

00:20:21.600 Releasing this

00:20:22.220 Because that's literally

00:20:23.000 What Pierre Polyev

00:20:23.720 Did yesterday, right?

00:20:24.600 Was tear apart

00:20:25.300 The liberals' platform

00:20:27.140 For the entire day

00:20:28.120 And didn't have to

00:20:28.840 Answer for his own

00:20:29.560 Is that obviously

00:20:30.620 Do you think the liberals

00:20:31.600 Made a misstep here?

00:20:32.920 It could be

00:20:33.960 I mean

00:20:34.760 It's interesting

00:20:36.360 That the leader

00:20:36.900 Who has not released

00:20:37.700 His platform

00:20:38.180 Is the one

00:20:38.720 You know

00:20:39.120 Attacking the other party

00:20:40.620 For the platform

00:20:41.320 But it's the reality

00:20:43.020 That if you put things

00:20:44.400 On the table

00:20:44.940 You give the possibility

00:20:47.200 For the others

00:20:48.300 To attack it

00:20:49.100 I'll be curious

00:20:50.500 To see if the conservatives

00:20:51.520 Will release a fully

00:20:52.400 Costed platform

00:20:53.180 I'm not sure it will happen

00:20:54.960 And frankly

00:20:55.660 If it doesn't happen

00:20:57.460 It will be the model

00:20:58.700 For the next election

00:20:59.760 Which I think is sad

00:21:01.220 Because we should

00:21:02.220 Have some kind of

00:21:03.100 Transparency and accountability

00:21:04.360 But it's not useful

00:21:06.100 Politically

00:21:07.060 Yeah

00:21:07.320 It gives a blueprint

00:21:08.200 Right?

00:21:08.580 You can kind of

00:21:09.100 Hold the leader

00:21:09.640 To account

00:21:10.080 In some kind of ways

00:21:10.920 But Warren

00:21:12.160 Do we care?

00:21:13.100 Is it

00:21:13.280 This vibes over platforms?

00:21:14.880 Is that kind of

00:21:15.360 The idea that Carl's

00:21:16.180 Bringing home here?

00:21:16.700 Do people really care

00:21:17.500 About platforms

00:21:18.240 In general?

00:21:20.500 I think they do

00:21:21.660 I give them credit

00:21:22.980 For that

00:21:23.460 You know

00:21:23.780 In 93

00:21:24.380 When we did

00:21:25.100 The Red Book

00:21:25.720 We had labored

00:21:26.360 Over it

00:21:26.900 For two years

00:21:28.280 And you know

00:21:29.980 We put it out

00:21:30.780 Guys

00:21:31.220 And like

00:21:31.860 We ran out of copies

00:21:33.100 Those of us in the war room

00:21:34.600 I was running the war room

00:21:35.820 We were using

00:21:36.860 Photocopies of it

00:21:38.040 Because none of us

00:21:38.640 Had a copy anymore

00:21:39.720 Like that's how

00:21:40.900 Important it was

00:21:42.000 Bureaucrats took it

00:21:43.540 To see

00:21:44.080 You know

00:21:44.560 What our policies were

00:21:45.880 And cost it out

00:21:46.760 And our opponents

00:21:47.440 Did that

00:21:48.040 As they should

00:21:49.180 Right?

00:21:50.040 We should be held

00:21:50.820 To that scrutiny

00:21:51.720 And so

00:21:52.860 You know

00:21:53.420 The Liberals releasing

00:21:54.940 Their document

00:21:55.660 Yesterday

00:21:56.200 In the middle

00:21:56.720 Of advanced polling

00:21:57.840 I thought was wrong

00:21:59.960 And I was shocked

00:22:01.380 Quite frankly

00:22:02.340 By what

00:22:03.060 The numbers

00:22:03.760 Were in there

00:22:04.680 I've seen now

00:22:06.080 Credible economists

00:22:07.000 Saying if those numbers

00:22:08.100 Are real

00:22:08.720 In the Liberal document

00:22:09.940 We are going to receive

00:22:11.600 A credit rating downgrade

00:22:13.380 Which means that

00:22:14.520 The cost of

00:22:15.680 Running the government

00:22:16.700 Will therefore

00:22:17.380 Become even more expensive

00:22:18.840 And it kind of

00:22:20.180 Cascades on itself

00:22:21.580 Like there's numbers

00:22:22.900 In there

00:22:23.340 That I don't think

00:22:24.080 Any of us

00:22:24.580 Were expecting

00:22:25.120 We knew that

00:22:25.680 There'd be a cost

00:22:26.360 Consequence

00:22:27.160 Of Donald Trump's

00:22:29.080 Tariffs

00:22:29.580 Right?

00:22:30.040 That we needed to

00:22:30.760 Support our fellow Canadians

00:22:32.220 You know our neighbours

00:22:33.080 And friends

00:22:33.820 Were going to lose

00:22:34.860 Their jobs

00:22:35.720 Because of what

00:22:36.620 Trump is doing

00:22:37.400 We knew there's

00:22:37.940 A cost to that

00:22:38.760 But there's stuff

00:22:39.900 In there

00:22:40.400 There's

00:22:40.880 There's a margin

00:22:42.160 In there

00:22:42.760 In the Liberal document

00:22:43.880 That a lot of us

00:22:45.480 Did not expect

00:22:46.420 And I you know

00:22:47.600 I thought

00:22:47.980 Carney was a blue

00:22:49.200 Liberal

00:22:49.460 I was pining

00:22:50.340 Yesterday

00:22:50.860 Oh no

00:22:51.240 He's a blue

00:22:51.740 Liberal

00:22:52.020 He wants to

00:22:52.900 Bring the party

00:22:53.440 Back to the centre

00:22:54.340 I'm not so sure

00:22:55.420 About that anymore

00:22:56.200 And it seems like

00:22:57.680 Yeah

00:22:57.880 130 billion dollars

00:22:58.940 Of new spending

00:22:59.820 It seems like

00:23:00.940 We might be around

00:23:02.020 To a balanced budget

00:23:02.780 By the end

00:23:03.640 Of the four years

00:23:04.680 If everything goes

00:23:05.880 Right

00:23:06.180 But kind of

00:23:07.320 Interesting to see

00:23:08.020 Some of these

00:23:08.400 Machinations out there

00:23:09.520 And perhaps

00:23:10.340 It will hurt

00:23:11.060 The Liberals

00:23:11.540 Tasha I guess

00:23:12.720 One

00:23:13.540 Just your thoughts

00:23:14.200 On the Liberal platform

00:23:14.940 If you do have any

00:23:15.840 And any thoughts

00:23:16.820 On you know

00:23:17.560 Whether voters

00:23:18.080 Whether these

00:23:18.660 Kind of messages

00:23:19.280 Actually resonate

00:23:20.000 With voters

00:23:20.500 Even if we think

00:23:21.420 They should

00:23:21.900 Well yeah

00:23:24.000 I was also

00:23:25.000 The numbers are huge

00:23:25.920 And the numbers

00:23:26.580 Are the same

00:23:26.960 As the bloc

00:23:27.660 I think it's

00:23:28.100 Spending is

00:23:28.560 At 31 billion

00:23:29.900 I mean

00:23:30.680 You know

00:23:31.740 There's no wealth tax

00:23:32.740 In the Liberal platform

00:23:34.180 Like there is

00:23:34.660 In the NDP

00:23:35.100 But the reality

00:23:36.540 Is the Liberal platform

00:23:37.280 Is much more likely

00:23:38.140 To become the blueprint

00:23:39.280 For government

00:23:39.940 In the NDP

00:23:40.520 So I worry less

00:23:41.520 About them

00:23:42.060 What I was

00:23:43.340 When the only thing

00:23:44.180 I was happy about

00:23:44.920 In the Liberal platform

00:23:45.680 Was the amount

00:23:46.360 Allocated to defense

00:23:47.440 It was 30 billion dollars

00:23:48.640 And it goes to more

00:23:50.380 Than 2% by 2030

00:23:51.840 Of spending

00:23:53.340 Which is something

00:23:54.100 That was completely

00:23:55.320 Absent in the debate

00:23:56.120 With any discussion

00:23:57.480 Of defense

00:23:58.000 Defense policy

00:23:59.100 As a priority

00:23:59.700 Is going to be

00:24:00.240 Very important

00:24:00.920 In negotiations

00:24:01.980 With Donald Trump

00:24:02.840 Because one of the

00:24:04.480 Charges against Canada

00:24:05.600 Is we are not

00:24:06.360 And we have not

00:24:07.020 Met our defense targets

00:24:08.760 We're at 1.37%

00:24:10.340 Of GDP spending

00:24:11.360 Right now

00:24:11.840 We're supposed to be

00:24:12.700 At 2%

00:24:13.120 The US is going to

00:24:14.020 Ask for 5%

00:24:14.860 So we're going to

00:24:16.280 Have to get higher

00:24:17.180 Than that

00:24:17.600 If we want to get

00:24:18.340 Deals on trade

00:24:19.100 And other things

00:24:19.800 So at least

00:24:20.780 Carney addressed that

00:24:21.740 But I agree

00:24:23.040 I mean this is not

00:24:23.860 This is not a blue

00:24:24.680 Liberal platform

00:24:25.480 And the accounting

00:24:27.060 I think the thing

00:24:28.520 That also things

00:24:29.160 They've done

00:24:29.580 That's an error

00:24:30.780 Is the double accounting

00:24:32.280 Because while

00:24:33.700 Maybe there's some

00:24:34.500 Some merit to it

00:24:35.720 If you're just

00:24:37.440 An average person

00:24:38.200 You look at this

00:24:38.680 And go

00:24:38.940 It's tricky accounting

00:24:39.920 It's really easy

00:24:41.040 For the Conservatives

00:24:41.900 To say

00:24:42.120 He's just

00:24:43.020 Shoving this off

00:24:43.980 Onto the operational

00:24:44.820 He's saying

00:24:45.140 You're going to

00:24:45.340 Balance the operational

00:24:46.200 Budget

00:24:46.640 But that means

00:24:47.480 On the other side

00:24:48.260 You're not being

00:24:48.880 Accountable

00:24:49.420 It's tricky accounting

00:24:50.680 Don't trust them

00:24:51.640 I think Carney

00:24:52.940 Was being a bit

00:24:53.560 Too clever by half

00:24:54.500 By doing that piece

00:24:55.700 And yeah

00:24:56.800 Releasing it ahead

00:24:57.740 The Conservatives

00:24:58.660 Just needed to wait

00:24:59.460 I wouldn't have

00:25:00.300 Released mine

00:25:00.840 Until the Conservatives

00:25:01.640 Are released theirs

00:25:02.240 It's kind of like

00:25:02.940 Show me yours

00:25:04.540 And I'll show you mine

00:25:05.660 Kind of thing

00:25:06.140 Because whoever moves

00:25:07.240 First is disadvantaged

00:25:08.760 The other guy has a day

00:25:09.960 Like you said

00:25:10.480 To rip it apart

00:25:11.380 Do whatever

00:25:12.800 Get economists

00:25:13.560 To say how bad it is

00:25:14.700 And you can't do

00:25:15.920 Anything to them

00:25:16.620 Because their stuff's

00:25:17.580 Not out

00:25:17.920 And who knows

00:25:18.620 If it will be

00:25:19.160 Yeah in terms of

00:25:20.280 Messaging

00:25:20.640 It's very tough

00:25:21.340 To put the genie

00:25:21.920 Back in the bottle

00:25:22.560 When there's going to be

00:25:23.180 At least 48 hours

00:25:24.540 Of this platform

00:25:26.160 Getting railed

00:25:27.220 By the opposition

00:25:28.240 Leaders here

00:25:28.880 And just because

00:25:29.760 You did mention

00:25:30.780 The debates there Tasha

00:25:31.640 I wanted to talk

00:25:32.400 About the debates

00:25:32.940 This week

00:25:33.260 Revisit them

00:25:33.840 It feels like

00:25:34.340 A while ago now

00:25:35.100 But I've kind of

00:25:35.880 Separated this

00:25:36.380 Into two parts

00:25:37.000 Right

00:25:37.200 There's the debates

00:25:38.280 And there's the drama

00:25:39.460 Surrounding the debates

00:25:40.280 So just in the

00:25:41.180 The meat of the debates

00:25:42.220 Tasha I'll start with you

00:25:43.060 I felt like Pierre Polyev

00:25:44.600 Probably walked away

00:25:45.540 With both of those debates

00:25:46.560 In different margins

00:25:49.200 Of victory

00:25:49.840 Mark Carney also

00:25:51.180 Seemingly survived

00:25:52.100 Just what were

00:25:52.680 Your big takeaways

00:25:53.380 From both of the

00:25:54.520 Debates this week

00:25:56.320 Well they're somewhat different

00:25:58.000 I thought Carney

00:25:58.820 Won the French debate

00:25:59.680 By default

00:26:00.280 Watching that debate

00:26:01.660 I felt the opponents

00:26:02.940 His opponents

00:26:03.660 Spent too much time

00:26:04.860 Arguing each other

00:26:05.820 Pierre Polyev and

00:26:07.620 Jagmeet Singh

00:26:08.200 Got into it

00:26:09.000 Multiple times

00:26:10.000 And I think

00:26:11.160 Jagmeet Singh

00:26:11.680 Tried to replicate

00:26:12.420 That in the second debate

00:26:14.040 By constantly

00:26:14.860 Heckling Polyev

00:26:15.840 Maybe trying to get him

00:26:16.860 To I don't know

00:26:17.960 Explode on stage

00:26:18.920 I was trying to figure out

00:26:19.780 The rationale there

00:26:20.580 But Polyev didn't

00:26:21.720 Take the bait

00:26:22.300 In the English debate

00:26:23.260 The way he did

00:26:24.420 In the French

00:26:24.860 And I think

00:26:25.680 In the French debate

00:26:26.400 That piece

00:26:27.700 Made Carney

00:26:28.760 Whose French

00:26:30.400 Was not as bad

00:26:31.460 As expected

00:26:32.040 It's improved

00:26:32.820 Significantly in fact

00:26:34.120 Since his first

00:26:35.640 Leadership debate

00:26:36.320 Within the Liberal Party

00:26:37.260 So a lot of

00:26:38.360 Commentators in Quebec

00:26:39.580 Were saying that

00:26:40.380 You know

00:26:40.920 French is better

00:26:41.660 And the other guys

00:26:43.200 Were offside

00:26:44.440 Carney won by default

00:26:45.740 That was kind of

00:26:46.380 A consensus

00:26:46.940 To be honest

00:26:47.580 Among the French press

00:26:48.480 And in the English debate

00:26:50.780 I thought

00:26:51.420 It was a draw

00:26:52.080 I thought that

00:26:52.800 They both spoke

00:26:53.480 To their respective audiences

00:26:54.660 And my biggest

00:26:55.440 Takeaway from that debate

00:26:56.480 Was how polarized

00:26:57.420 Our electorate is

00:26:58.740 It was like

00:26:59.060 There were two

00:26:59.500 Separate conversations

00:27:00.440 Happening on stage

00:27:01.900 One of

00:27:03.220 You know

00:27:03.680 Pierre Polyev

00:27:04.660 Talking about

00:27:05.380 His slogans

00:27:06.700 And his very simplistic

00:27:07.660 Kind of view of things

00:27:08.780 To be honest

00:27:09.540 With you know

00:27:10.400 Not in the acts of tax

00:27:11.980 But the last liberal decade

00:27:13.460 Kept coming back

00:27:14.220 All this very simple

00:27:15.620 Packaging stuff

00:27:16.480 That actually irritates

00:27:17.840 A lot of Carney's audience

00:27:19.480 Who liked the more

00:27:20.640 Elaborate

00:27:21.760 Sophisticated

00:27:22.540 You know

00:27:23.240 Economic discussion

00:27:25.080 That he was having

00:27:25.860 And I felt that

00:27:27.980 That shows

00:27:28.640 Yeah

00:27:28.980 The grey hairs

00:27:29.580 Are going to vote for Carney

00:27:30.580 And the young people

00:27:31.320 Without a house

00:27:31.880 Are going to vote for Polyev

00:27:32.920 Nothing's changed

00:27:34.080 To be honest

00:27:34.680 And Carl

00:27:35.840 I guess

00:27:36.120 Maybe you can weigh in

00:27:37.000 On in terms of

00:27:38.280 Carney's French

00:27:39.220 And whether or not

00:27:40.160 It was passable

00:27:40.740 I don't know

00:27:41.080 What people expected

00:27:41.980 In terms of

00:27:42.840 His level of French

00:27:44.640 At all

00:27:44.880 But it didn't seem

00:27:45.540 To be a major issue

00:27:46.560 Your take on the

00:27:47.540 French and English debate

00:27:48.420 Well I mean

00:27:49.980 He was the

00:27:50.740 The worst

00:27:52.320 In terms of his

00:27:52.920 Capacity to express himself

00:27:53.960 To the French

00:27:54.500 But that's how he's right

00:27:55.880 He was better than expected

00:27:57.460 And the expectations were low

00:27:58.740 That's always a good thing

00:27:59.700 When you go into a debate

00:28:00.540 To have low expectations

00:28:02.100 Because you know

00:28:03.360 You show up

00:28:04.020 And you survive

00:28:05.000 And suddenly people say

00:28:06.060 You're the winner

00:28:06.580 And that's what happened

00:28:07.420 But François Blanchet

00:28:10.200 Was the best

00:28:10.780 During that debate

00:28:11.560 And he probably saved

00:28:12.800 A couple of seats

00:28:13.480 Because of that

00:28:14.740 The takeaway though

00:28:18.380 Is the way

00:28:19.060 Jagmeet Singh's

00:28:20.760 Strategy

00:28:21.200 Was unfolding

00:28:22.200 To me

00:28:23.100 He was attacking

00:28:24.640 Pierre Poiliev

00:28:25.460 With more passion

00:28:26.460 Than he was going

00:28:27.360 After Mark Carney

00:28:28.100 And he was doing it

00:28:29.060 Regularly

00:28:29.880 But strategically

00:28:31.620 The voters

00:28:32.880 That he needs to recover

00:28:33.760 Are liberals

00:28:35.280 They went to the liberals

00:28:36.780 To stop Poiliev

00:28:37.720 So

00:28:38.720 I guess

00:28:40.020 He's trying to show

00:28:41.180 That he's stronger

00:28:42.160 Against the Conservatives

00:28:43.600 Than Carney

00:28:44.160 And that Carney

00:28:45.160 Is soft on Poiliev

00:28:46.140 Because he agrees

00:28:46.940 With him on many things

00:28:47.880 And that therefore

00:28:48.960 If you really don't want

00:28:50.060 Poiliev

00:28:50.560 You have to vote NDP

00:28:51.520 I think that's the logic

00:28:52.960 I'm not sure

00:28:54.060 It's going to work

00:28:54.740 But he created

00:28:56.180 This dynamic

00:28:57.200 Where

00:28:57.640 Singh was basically

00:28:59.780 Playing interference

00:29:00.680 In favour of Carney

00:29:02.660 At many moments

00:29:04.020 During the French

00:29:04.680 And the English debate

00:29:05.560 Yeah I caught that too

00:29:07.240 And I didn't know

00:29:07.720 Yeah I was trying to think

00:29:08.620 As well of the strategy

00:29:09.500 Right was he trying

00:29:10.140 To step on his clips

00:29:11.040 A little bit

00:29:11.620 Was there actually

00:29:12.260 Some personal animosity there

00:29:13.780 I wasn't quite sure either

00:29:15.500 But Warren

00:29:16.320 I guess your big takeaways

00:29:17.400 From both the debates

00:29:18.580 I thought

00:29:20.160 Poiliev

00:29:20.960 Was the best debater

00:29:22.360 He toned it down

00:29:23.960 He was not the same guy

00:29:25.280 He's been for the past two years

00:29:26.980 He addressed the camera

00:29:28.500 He used his hands

00:29:29.720 His tone was good

00:29:30.940 He was the one

00:29:32.160 Who spoke with most examples

00:29:34.160 Viewers

00:29:35.000 We know this from research

00:29:36.380 Love it when you give examples

00:29:38.400 Of your policies

00:29:39.680 And your approach

00:29:40.720 And after all of that

00:29:42.580 It doesn't matter

00:29:43.580 Because as my colleagues

00:29:45.080 Have said

00:29:45.700 Expectations for Carney

00:29:47.540 Were very low

00:29:48.440 Particularly in the French debate

00:29:50.100 And he exceeded

00:29:51.360 Those expectations

00:29:52.760 He

00:29:53.540 He

00:29:54.620 Needed to fall

00:29:55.720 Flat on his face

00:29:56.840 And the three

00:29:57.820 Opponents

00:29:58.620 Were working overtime

00:29:59.860 To achieve that

00:30:01.320 And help him

00:30:02.020 Do that

00:30:02.760 And it didn't happen

00:30:04.000 There was no

00:30:04.880 So-called defining moment

00:30:06.320 There rarely is

00:30:07.520 In debates

00:30:08.600 All of us

00:30:09.500 Have gotten leaders

00:30:10.500 Ready

00:30:10.880 For debates

00:30:11.840 And at the end of it

00:30:13.340 Mark Carney

00:30:13.900 Was left standing

00:30:14.760 And given the fact

00:30:15.760 That he's six to seven points

00:30:17.260 Ahead in most polls

00:30:19.080 That means he won the debate

00:30:21.340 So it's a bittersweet

00:30:23.000 For Polly

00:30:23.720 He finally achieved

00:30:25.820 After, you know

00:30:26.600 Two years of being leader

00:30:27.780 After two years of hard work

00:30:30.140 And fundraising

00:30:30.960 And rubber chicken

00:30:32.380 He finally achieved

00:30:33.980 That perfect moment

00:30:35.140 He needed to achieve

00:30:36.540 And he did that

00:30:37.840 At the right moment

00:30:38.980 At the debates

00:30:39.840 And it doesn't matter

00:30:41.000 Because at this point

00:30:42.020 My gut's telling me

00:30:42.920 Mark Carney's going to win

00:30:43.920 The election

00:30:44.420 And we'll have to wait

00:30:46.380 And see

00:30:46.620 And if the

00:30:47.680 I guess

00:30:48.200 Debates move the needle

00:30:49.980 For anybody

00:30:50.560 I think

00:30:51.020 We could all probably agree

00:30:52.380 The biggest loser

00:30:53.000 Out of the debate

00:30:53.580 Was the debate commission

00:30:55.300 In many ways here

00:30:56.540 You guys had one job

00:30:57.800 But

00:30:58.560 The Green Party

00:31:00.200 Here last minute

00:31:00.740 There's two different facets

00:31:01.800 To this

00:31:02.160 The Green Party

00:31:02.760 And Rebel Media

00:31:03.300 I'll try to speed through

00:31:04.060 This a little bit

00:31:04.720 But Carl

00:31:05.480 You know

00:31:05.940 The Green Party

00:31:06.420 Not being allowed

00:31:07.080 It sounds like

00:31:07.780 They probably just

00:31:08.380 Should have threatened

00:31:08.800 A lawsuit

00:31:09.240 Like Rebel Media did

00:31:10.440 And they probably

00:31:10.980 Would have been allowed

00:31:11.620 Into the debate here

00:31:13.020 But

00:31:13.220 Just wondering

00:31:14.020 Your take on

00:31:14.660 How this was handled

00:31:15.540 As a whole

00:31:16.340 Well

00:31:17.180 I don't know

00:31:18.160 Why it took so long

00:31:19.300 For the Greens

00:31:19.820 To be disqualified

00:31:20.660 It was obvious

00:31:21.560 That they

00:31:22.060 It was like

00:31:24.080 Two weeks before

00:31:24.840 Right

00:31:25.120 The candidates

00:31:26.140 Were finalized

00:31:26.720 Two weeks before

00:31:27.300 Anyway

00:31:27.600 And the Greens

00:31:29.100 Did not qualify

00:31:30.620 They did not meet

00:31:31.600 Two of the three criteria

00:31:32.480 Simple

00:31:32.980 So why

00:31:34.260 Was the commission

00:31:35.200 Afraid to follow

00:31:36.120 Their own rules

00:31:36.880 I don't know

00:31:37.760 There's been over the years

00:31:39.620 And Elizabeth May

00:31:40.240 Was particularly good

00:31:41.040 At this

00:31:41.520 A lot of debate

00:31:42.760 About the debate

00:31:43.500 And how she was

00:31:44.120 Trying to insert herself

00:31:45.100 And succeeded at times

00:31:46.180 To insert herself

00:31:47.740 Because if you're in the debate

00:31:49.220 You know

00:31:49.760 You get votes

00:31:50.540 You get more votes

00:31:51.480 So that's why

00:31:52.680 The Greens

00:31:53.100 Did what they did

00:31:54.060 By faking

00:31:55.320 A candidate's list

00:31:56.360 And letting

00:31:57.460 Elections Canada

00:31:58.320 Believe that they

00:31:59.020 Were meeting the criteria

00:31:59.780 They were not

00:32:00.980 Meeting the criteria

00:32:01.720 And they were excluded

00:32:02.960 For good reason

00:32:03.780 But frankly

00:32:05.300 The commission

00:32:06.040 I'm not sure

00:32:07.840 Is going to survive

00:32:08.500 This election

00:32:09.060 I'm not sure

00:32:09.600 What's going to happen

00:32:10.280 After the election

00:32:11.120 Because of everything

00:32:12.480 Else that happened

00:32:13.420 Because we talk

00:32:14.340 About the Greens

00:32:14.860 Yes

00:32:15.220 Rebel media

00:32:16.100 And their friends

00:32:17.160 Who showed up

00:32:17.680 And hijacked

00:32:18.260 The post

00:32:19.340 Post debate

00:32:20.360 Press conference

00:32:21.160 But also

00:32:22.420 Changing the

00:32:23.820 Timing again

00:32:25.140 For one of the

00:32:26.720 Debates

00:32:26.940 And doing it

00:32:27.440 At the very last minute

00:32:28.320 It's not very serious

00:32:30.120 For a country

00:32:31.920 And a democracy

00:32:32.620 Like Canada

00:32:33.220 That's a good way

00:32:34.440 To put it

00:32:35.120 I suppose

00:32:35.480 Warren

00:32:35.840 Is this a serious

00:32:37.100 Commission

00:32:37.460 Just what was

00:32:38.120 Your take on

00:32:38.600 How it handled

00:32:39.460 This entire scenario

00:32:40.800 And set up this week

00:32:41.600 Well I felt badly

00:32:42.920 For them

00:32:43.380 Because

00:32:43.920 Ezra Levant's

00:32:45.280 Rebel

00:32:45.560 Which is a

00:32:46.620 Fundraising outfit

00:32:47.600 They're not a

00:32:48.220 Media organization

00:32:49.160 Was suing them

00:32:51.060 And they were

00:32:52.800 Ordered to

00:32:53.600 Permit Rebel

00:32:54.440 News in there

00:32:55.520 And then it

00:32:56.500 Turned into a

00:32:57.120 Fiasco

00:32:57.600 I'm not sure

00:32:58.220 How many people

00:32:59.140 Stick around

00:32:59.720 To watch

00:33:00.300 You know

00:33:00.980 The post

00:33:01.460 Debate

00:33:01.940 Scrums

00:33:02.560 Anyway

00:33:03.080 They're a big

00:33:04.680 Deal for

00:33:05.240 Weirdos like us

00:33:06.300 But I think

00:33:06.960 Your average

00:33:07.420 Person is tuned

00:33:08.280 Out by that

00:33:08.880 Point

00:33:09.200 But you know

00:33:10.420 Okay so let's

00:33:11.120 Say it goes

00:33:11.620 Back to the

00:33:12.220 Broadcasters

00:33:13.100 Andrew

00:33:13.580 Like your

00:33:14.580 Outfit

00:33:16.200 And any other

00:33:17.120 Outfit that's

00:33:17.620 Hosting it

00:33:18.000 They're going

00:33:18.240 To get sued

00:33:18.720 Too

00:33:19.100 You know

00:33:19.740 Resident Levant's

00:33:20.780 Going to sue

00:33:21.120 You too

00:33:21.480 And what are

00:33:21.760 You going to

00:33:22.060 Do

00:33:22.320 So I felt

00:33:24.560 Sorry for

00:33:25.080 The mayor

00:33:25.460 And then on

00:33:25.940 The Green

00:33:26.220 Party thing

00:33:26.700 Who cares

00:33:27.240 Like Carl

00:33:27.760 Says

00:33:28.100 You know

00:33:28.740 They have

00:33:29.480 Two leaders

00:33:30.040 And the two

00:33:30.660 Leaders said

00:33:31.120 Different things

00:33:31.940 Right

00:33:32.760 She said

00:33:33.960 That they

00:33:35.160 Had not

00:33:35.800 Gotten rid

00:33:36.520 Of candidates

00:33:37.400 And lowered

00:33:37.860 Themselves below

00:33:38.660 The threshold

00:33:39.380 And were

00:33:39.780 Disqualified

00:33:40.400 And that

00:33:41.360 That was not

00:33:42.760 True

00:33:43.040 And he said

00:33:43.760 That it was

00:33:44.420 And then when

00:33:45.700 Reporters were

00:33:46.480 Trying to talk

00:33:47.220 To him after

00:33:47.940 The debate

00:33:48.400 They had to

00:33:49.100 Chase him down

00:33:49.680 The street

00:33:50.100 To get him

00:33:50.680 To say

00:33:51.020 Something

00:33:51.320 So the

00:33:51.700 Green Party

00:33:52.140 Is not

00:33:52.460 Serious

00:33:53.020 They're a joke

00:33:54.280 They're a clown

00:33:55.340 Show

00:33:55.740 And they

00:33:56.520 Shouldn't have

00:33:56.960 Been there

00:33:57.380 And they

00:33:57.660 Weren't

00:33:58.380 I did see

00:33:58.840 Some irony

00:33:59.320 In saying

00:33:59.760 That something

00:34:00.140 Is undemocratic

00:34:00.880 And then

00:34:01.220 Immediately

00:34:01.580 Walking away

00:34:02.260 Without answering

00:34:02.840 Any questions

00:34:03.440 From the media

00:34:04.060 That are there

00:34:05.180 But Tasha

00:34:05.960 I guess

00:34:06.360 Final word

00:34:06.760 For you

00:34:07.100 In terms of

00:34:07.660 The debate

00:34:08.200 Commission

00:34:08.520 And how

00:34:08.940 All of this

00:34:09.740 Was handled

00:34:10.200 From participants

00:34:11.060 To media

00:34:11.860 Representatives

00:34:12.400 I think we've

00:34:13.760 Covered the

00:34:14.160 Greens

00:34:14.580 En masse

00:34:15.280 But I will

00:34:15.720 Address the

00:34:16.200 Rebel news

00:34:16.680 Issue

00:34:17.180 The debate

00:34:18.300 Commission

00:34:18.580 Screwed up

00:34:19.160 They gave

00:34:19.500 Them five

00:34:20.060 Media passes

00:34:20.860 Everyone else

00:34:21.500 Got one

00:34:22.020 Five journalists

00:34:23.080 From Rebel

00:34:23.420 Were accredited

00:34:24.080 They attribute

00:34:25.340 This somehow

00:34:26.000 To the lawsuit

00:34:26.640 But I do not

00:34:27.500 See how

00:34:28.060 The lawsuit

00:34:28.780 Made them

00:34:29.180 Give five

00:34:29.920 Media passes

00:34:30.580 Which allowed

00:34:31.680 Rebel journalists

00:34:32.540 To dominate the

00:34:33.140 Debate

00:34:33.480 And then it

00:34:34.220 Led in the

00:34:35.120 Actual

00:34:35.740 Holding pen

00:34:36.880 To tensions

00:34:38.280 Between a

00:34:39.280 Hill Times

00:34:39.680 Reporter

00:34:40.120 Who went off

00:34:41.120 The rails

00:34:41.500 On Rebel

00:34:42.120 And then Rebel

00:34:43.100 Their journalists

00:34:43.820 Were chasing

00:34:44.500 People down

00:34:45.480 Chasing other

00:34:46.500 Journalists

00:34:47.060 With cameras

00:34:47.760 You know

00:34:49.140 With their

00:34:49.440 Phones

00:34:49.900 To film them

00:34:51.340 It was

00:34:52.180 It was a zoo

00:34:53.020 I was in the

00:34:53.560 Building at

00:34:54.020 Raggio Canada

00:34:54.580 Upstairs

00:34:55.160 And we were

00:34:55.520 Doing analysis

00:34:56.320 Of this

00:34:56.740 And we were

00:34:57.100 Following that

00:34:57.720 And could not

00:34:58.320 Believe the

00:34:58.820 Stuff we were

00:34:59.220 Seeing coming

00:35:00.120 Up from

00:35:00.440 Downstairs

00:35:01.000 And outside

00:35:02.060 In front of

00:35:02.700 The building

00:35:03.560 Was parked

00:35:04.300 A truck

00:35:05.420 That was

00:35:06.720 Owned by

00:35:07.480 A company

00:35:08.080 Or rented

00:35:08.580 By a company

00:35:09.160 That Ezra

00:35:10.020 Levan

00:35:10.300 Has set up

00:35:10.940 To help

00:35:11.800 As a third

00:35:12.440 Party

00:35:12.700 Advertiser

00:35:13.180 Promote

00:35:13.460 The Conservatives

00:35:14.060 And it

00:35:14.300 Had images

00:35:14.760 Of you know

00:35:15.920 Carney

00:35:16.380 With Ghislaine

00:35:16.960 Maxwell

00:35:17.420 Other stuff

00:35:19.260 About Carney

00:35:19.880 You know

00:35:20.580 Basically saying

00:35:21.260 He's just

00:35:21.620 Like Trudeau

00:35:22.380 And it was

00:35:23.100 Circling the

00:35:23.560 Building

00:35:23.900 During the

00:35:24.820 Whole

00:35:25.160 Pre-debate

00:35:26.100 And I'm

00:35:26.600 Possibly the

00:35:27.220 Debate

00:35:27.460 It was

00:35:27.580 Parked there

00:35:27.960 During the

00:35:28.400 Debate

00:35:28.600 In front

00:35:29.040 Of the

00:35:29.220 Building

00:35:29.460 And these

00:35:30.200 Guys

00:35:30.480 I'm sorry

00:35:31.200 Are not

00:35:32.740 Journalists

00:35:33.280 In this

00:35:33.660 Context

00:35:34.120 When they're

00:35:34.440 Doing that

00:35:34.860 They're not

00:35:35.240 Bringing

00:35:35.560 Anything to

00:35:36.460 Canadians

00:35:36.940 Of value

00:35:37.680 Of information

00:35:39.240 They are

00:35:40.040 Promoting

00:35:40.560 And the

00:35:41.620 Debate

00:35:41.940 Commission

00:35:42.340 I think at

00:35:42.920 The end

00:35:43.120 Of this

00:35:43.360 Is gone

00:35:43.900 They did

00:35:45.000 Not handle

00:35:45.420 This

00:35:45.560 Cormier

00:35:45.880 Ran away

00:35:46.320 From his

00:35:46.580 Own

00:35:46.700 Press

00:35:46.960 Conference

00:35:47.300 At the

00:35:47.560 End

00:35:47.700 Which is

00:35:47.960 Completely

00:35:48.320 Bizarre

00:35:48.880 Because I

00:35:49.340 Think he

00:35:49.500 Was scared

00:35:49.960 The journalists

00:35:50.500 I mean

00:35:52.600 It was

00:35:52.960 A clown

00:35:54.440 Show

00:35:54.800 Not the

00:35:55.300 S show

00:35:55.660 Clown

00:35:56.060 Show

00:35:56.260 We can't

00:35:58.180 Have that

00:35:58.540 Again

00:35:58.800 This is

00:35:59.160 Ridiculous

00:35:59.780 Utterly

00:36:00.280 Ridiculous

00:36:00.780 It was a

00:36:02.020 Circus

00:36:02.340 To say

00:36:02.620 The least

00:36:02.920 Last word

00:36:03.320 To Tasha

00:36:03.700 Carrad and

00:36:04.040 Political

00:36:04.280 Columnist

00:36:04.640 For the

00:36:04.840 National

00:36:05.040 Post

00:36:05.280 Writer

00:36:05.520 For GZERO

00:36:06.040 Media

00:36:06.340 Guys

00:36:07.160 Thank you

00:36:07.500 So much

00:36:07.860 For joining

00:36:08.180 Us

00:36:08.320 This

00:36:08.520 Weekend

00:36:08.840 I really

00:36:09.160 Appreciate it

00:36:09.680 Have a

00:36:09.880 Great

00:36:10.060 Easter

00:36:10.360 Thank you

00:36:11.460 Happy Easter

00:36:12.060 Carl

00:36:12.760 Belanger

00:36:13.040 President

00:36:13.440 Attraction

00:36:13.840 Strategies

00:36:14.340 And Warren

00:36:14.640 Kinsella

00:36:15.000 Strategist

00:36:15.580 And Post

00:36:15.960 Media

00:36:16.240 Columnist

00:36:16.600 You can

00:36:16.780 Read his

00:36:17.140 Ladies

00:36:46.780 So I made

00:36:48.460 My beast

00:36:49.280 With whoever

00:36:49.940 I trust

00:36:50.800 And shut

00:36:51.540 My eyes

00:36:52.440 And turned

00:36:52.940 To dust

00:36:53.680 I know

00:36:55.120 I know

00:36:55.700 I know

00:36:56.260 I'm walking

00:36:57.100 Away

00:36:57.880 Well you

00:37:01.280 Are sitting

00:37:01.860 In these

00:37:02.240 Seconds

00:37:02.720 And James

00:37:03.220 While all

00:37:03.680 The men

00:37:04.080 In black

00:37:04.560 Lovers

00:37:04.960 Keep my

00:37:05.360 Country

00:37:05.720 Away

00:37:06.220 And the

00:37:06.940 Wrapped

00:37:07.280 In a cage

00:37:08.060 Without

00:37:08.480 A choice

00:37:09.160 And there's

00:37:10.440 No future

00:37:11.080 Without

00:37:11.740 A voice

00:37:12.560 I know

00:37:14.060 I know

00:37:14.660 I know

00:37:16.080 And I ain't

00:37:17.020 Walking

00:37:17.380 Away

00:37:18.220 I know

00:37:20.120 I know

00:37:20.620 I know

00:37:21.620 There is

00:37:23.300 No escape

00:37:24.260 I'm in

00:37:27.960 Trouble

00:37:28.440 And I'm

00:37:30.380 Going

00:37:30.840 Under

00:37:31.840 I cry

00:37:33.980 Like lightning

00:37:35.040 And I

00:37:36.900 Bride

00:37:37.200 Up

00:37:37.560 Under

00:37:38.040 I'm in

00:37:39.160 Trouble

00:37:39.540 And there's

00:37:40.060 No way

00:37:40.620 Out

00:37:41.320 I'm in

00:37:42.380 Trouble

00:37:42.760 I'm

00:37:43.200 Breaking

00:37:43.660 Down

00:37:44.420 Yeah

00:37:45.000 I'm

00:38:04.460 Going

00:38:05.220 At

00:38:06.680 No

00:38:07.120 I'm

00:38:07.300 Wasn't

00:38:08.320 I'm

00:38:08.700 Going

00:38:09.180 I'm

00:38:09.220 Hari

00:38:11.100 I know, I know, I know

00:38:18.820 Yeah, I ain't walking away

00:38:21.680 I know, I know, I know

00:38:25.300 That there is no escape

00:38:27.740 And I'm in trouble

00:38:31.820 And I'm going under

00:38:35.500 I'll crack the lightning

00:38:38.360 And I'll break the thunder

00:38:41.440 I'm in trouble and there's no way out

00:38:44.680 I'm in trouble, I'll break it down

00:38:47.940 Yeah

00:38:48.360 Very happy to be joined by a good friend of the show, a good friend of mine, Warren Kinsella,

00:38:58.280 former special advisor to Jean Chrétien and CEO of the Daisy Group.

00:39:01.980 Warren knows as much about running an election campaign as anybody,

00:39:05.560 so to have him with us so we can lean on his knowledge and his insights during this election campaign,

00:39:10.960 invaluable to me and invaluable to the listeners of the Ben Mulroney Show.

00:39:14.360 Warren, welcome.

00:39:15.680 Thanks, my friend.

00:39:16.740 So yesterday, after some quiet time from Donald Trump, he reared his head again,

00:39:21.740 the threat of a 51st state and annexation and all that stuff,

00:39:25.220 except it wasn't him saying anything.

00:39:27.180 It was the CBC goading his press secretary into saying something.

00:39:32.900 I'm not so cynical as to assume that Katie Simpson of the CBC did it deliberately,

00:39:37.360 but it certainly is beneficial to Mark Carney.

00:39:41.040 Yeah, I said to my editors when it happened,

00:39:43.800 CBC for the assist.

00:39:47.120 Yeah.

00:39:47.840 But Katie Simpson is an excellent reporter, as you and I both know.

00:39:51.060 And then we also didn't know what was going to come out of the White House press secretary's mouth.

00:39:55.220 If she could have, they could have reversed course, but they haven't, clearly.

00:39:59.660 And that accrues mainly to Mark Carney's benefit.

00:40:03.160 However, like if he tries to use it tonight, Ben, it'll be a reach, right?

00:40:07.540 Like, it's like, OK, we got the prime minister of Canada quoting a press secretary.

00:40:11.580 You know, it's a bit of a reach, you know.

00:40:13.740 And what does Polyev do with it, Blanchet do with it?

00:40:16.380 So it may not even show up.

00:40:18.280 But obviously, at least in the White House,

00:40:21.020 they're still thinking about us as the 51st state.

00:40:23.560 And meanwhile, there's a poll that I really I want to highlight on the show.

00:40:27.340 We've talked about a couple of times in the National Post.

00:40:29.420 It says three quarters of Canadians who plan to vote conservative say that the emotion that's

00:40:33.620 going to get them off the couch and it's going to get them to check a box in favor of their

00:40:38.200 conservative candidate is hope for a better future.

00:40:42.900 And in contrast, six out of 10 liberal voters say they're motivated by fear of what the future

00:40:48.100 holds for Canada.

00:40:48.920 What do you make of that?

00:40:50.940 I found that fascinating.

00:40:53.200 Actually, that is.

00:40:54.600 Yeah, there are two buttons available to you in a campaign, which is hope and fear.

00:40:59.240 And, you know, when you're in opposition, you tend to hammer away at the fear button.

00:41:04.180 You know, don't put these guys back in.

00:41:06.360 And, you know, they're going to wreck things even worse and et cetera, et cetera.

00:41:10.440 And you're the incumbent.

00:41:11.940 You're usually doing hope.

00:41:13.340 So like Ronald Reagan, you know, it's morning in America again.

00:41:17.220 But like this is fascinating that the liberals are now in the position, at least according

00:41:23.220 to this poll, of pushing the fear button.

00:41:25.820 Yeah.

00:41:26.180 It's not their natural position.

00:41:27.900 No, it's not.

00:41:28.820 I was going to say that.

00:41:30.820 Now, would you recommend if you if you had the ear of the of the conservative campaign,

00:41:35.720 would you recommend that they lean into this and maybe put together a quick online

00:41:39.200 promotional ad campaign, pushing that message of hope, that feeling of hope?

00:41:45.500 A hundred percent.

00:41:46.400 But, you know, I mean, like, you know, I just I've been waiting for two years for Pierre

00:41:51.060 Pogliev since he became leader to say, you know, not the country is broken.

00:41:54.800 It's like this country's got lots of problems, but I love this country.

00:41:58.440 I love the people of this country.

00:42:00.440 We are the best country in the world.

00:42:02.640 We've got a bunch of stuff to do.

00:42:04.100 Let's do it together.

00:42:05.160 But, you know, it hasn't been his style.

00:42:07.640 And I think he is, in fairness to him, during that two year period when he was talking about

00:42:11.860 the country being broken, a lot of people agreed with that.

00:42:14.700 Yeah.

00:42:15.380 But the problem now is arisen in the month of January is Donald Trump comes in and also

00:42:21.120 says Canada is broken effectively.

00:42:23.960 So, you know, making that pivot at this point after week three in the campaign, it's pretty

00:42:29.200 late.

00:42:29.620 However, you know, like, you know, your dad did it in 88 with John Turner.

00:42:34.360 Turner was surging over, you know, a hope, fear type exchange during the debates.

00:42:39.900 And then it was the, you know, the bomb, the bridges.

00:42:42.280 So it was just kind of leveling any kind of advance that Turner had made.

00:42:46.480 It is possible, but you've got to be ready to get your creative, your spots dropping tonight.

00:42:52.020 You know, that's what the NDP did with Michael Ignatiev, right?

00:42:54.840 You know, part of being leader of the opposition is showing up for the job.

00:42:57.740 And then they had to add the drop right after the debate and it just killed Ignatiev.

00:43:02.700 Right.

00:43:03.520 Yeah.

00:43:03.800 And listen, I'm a big believer in the debates being consequential.

00:43:07.480 How consequential depends on what is said and how consequential depends on who gets the

00:43:12.720 airtime.

00:43:13.260 There's a lot of debate news that we've got to talk about.

00:43:16.620 We've got to talk and I'll just list them off and we'll talk about them organically.

00:43:19.500 You've got the fact that they changed the French language debate time to suit a hockey

00:43:23.620 game.

00:43:24.060 You've got the fact that a last minute change of who can come to the debates with the

00:43:28.120 Green Party being turfed.

00:43:30.520 What do you make of these changes?

00:43:33.240 What does it say about, I mean, I don't think we have to talk about the debate commission

00:43:37.900 itself, but it doesn't seem like they're being run very well.

00:43:41.480 Well, you know, but what's more Canadian than that?

00:43:43.520 The change, a consequential leaders debate for a hockey game.

00:43:48.220 As a Habs fan, I love that.

00:43:49.660 But the Greens not being there, that actually accrues to Polyev's favor.

00:43:55.400 When I prepped Kretchen in 2000, he said to me, oh, you know, there's going to be all

00:43:59.860 these people on stage yelling at me.

00:44:01.520 I said, exactly.

00:44:02.520 I said, if I could get more people on stage yelling at you, I'd do it.

00:44:05.600 Because all you have to do is sit there and, you know, cross your arms and look like a

00:44:08.860 prime minister.

00:44:09.580 And they all look like, you know, snapping little dogs at your ankles.

00:44:13.160 So it works to Carney's favor if the more people on stage, because then he looks like

00:44:20.640 the adult.

00:44:21.700 So the fewer the antagonists he's got, you know, it can work for them.

00:44:26.960 My prediction is Polyev is going to cool it a bit tonight.

00:44:30.760 He knows he can be too hot for TV.

00:44:32.920 He knows that it turns off women.

00:44:34.420 So I think he's going to be cooler, but firm.

00:44:36.740 He'll have a couple of killer lines and they're going to be looking for the clips.

00:44:39.500 The clips is what matters, because increasingly, sadly, a lot of people don't watch debates.

00:44:44.580 I was hearing that Blanchet was really didn't want Pedno there from the Green Party because

00:44:49.040 he acquits himself very well in French and he didn't have to compete on that level.

00:44:53.360 So does this benefit François Blanchet?

00:44:56.740 Yeah, I think so.

00:44:58.200 And then, you know, Blanchet and Singh have got the same problem is they're being just

00:45:02.860 their momentum is being killed by the Liberal Party.

00:45:05.900 So those two guys, you know, somebody one of my readers said to me this morning,

00:45:09.500 oh, you know, Blanchet's going to go after Polyev.

00:45:12.080 And I'm like, no, he's not.

00:45:13.760 You know, his the threat to his existence is the Liberal Party and their Mark Carney.

00:45:18.520 So I expect the NDP and the bloc are going to go hard after Carney because they have to.

00:45:25.920 Talk to me about this piece that you've written recently in The Sun about Elections Canada

00:45:30.160 picking Holy Week to hold advanced polls.

00:45:32.480 What do you make of that?

00:45:33.120 Um, I think it was sloppy.

00:45:36.640 You know, I'm full disclosure, I'm a church going Catholic, but I'm not a fanatic about it.

00:45:41.180 And when I looked at the dates, I was like, holy smokes, no pun intended.

00:45:44.720 Like they're having the advanced polls, you know, on Good Friday, Easter Sunday, Passover.

00:45:50.440 Um, and, and like those Holy Week, it's the most Holy Week of the year for Jews and Catholics.

00:45:59.040 And like, couldn't you pick other dates?

00:46:01.100 And I checked the legislation, I checked the Elections Act and the Elections Commissioner,

00:46:05.340 Mr.

00:46:05.640 Perrault does have the authority.

00:46:07.520 He's got the jurisdiction to change the dates.

00:46:10.140 He's actually done that in the past.

00:46:12.620 And, you know, why they're not doing it here?

00:46:14.420 I don't know.

00:46:15.080 Increasingly secular society.

00:46:16.920 Maybe they think they could, they could get away with it.

00:46:19.120 Maybe they're locked in because of the election date.

00:46:21.000 I don't know.

00:46:21.920 But it, I was quite surprised because it, I thought that some people would get upset about that.

00:46:26.700 Yeah.

00:46:27.040 Yeah.

00:46:27.380 Hey, I want to go back to one last thing.

00:46:28.740 I watched, as I'm sure you did, I watched the leaders on Tout le monde en parle.

00:46:32.580 And I was struck by, if I'm being completely objective and fair, how much better Carney's

00:46:38.040 French was in that moment than I've seen at all in the, in this campaign.

00:46:42.100 He was even in English extemporaneously, he ums and ahs his way through answers.

00:46:46.800 And there was none of that in French.

00:46:48.660 And I was quite taken as my goodness, if he's able to do that in just a matter of days,

00:46:52.960 what's he going to be like on the debate stage?

00:46:55.040 Well, we, you know, we've both seen it when you're an Anglophone, with the exception of

00:46:58.500 your dad and maybe Joshua Ray, you know, there's very few Anglophones.

00:47:02.580 Who can slip into both cultures instantaneously where you can't really tell the difference.

00:47:07.620 And so it's hard.

00:47:08.800 And the, you know, what you've got to do with your candidate, if he's an Anglophone like

00:47:12.340 Carney is you're going to make sure he's sat around and by Francophones the entire week

00:47:16.460 before the French debate.

00:47:17.740 So there's no slipping back of their brain into speaking English because you can see that

00:47:22.920 when they do that.

00:47:23.600 So my suspicion is the liberals have surrounded Carney.

00:47:27.120 Cause if you look at Carney's schedule, he's kind of disappeared in the past week.

00:47:31.080 He's done a couple of media avails, but not a lot.

00:47:34.060 And so he's been far less available in Polyed.

00:47:36.680 And I think that's a recognition of the fact that Carney's French wasn't where it needed

00:47:40.560 to be.

00:47:41.200 So they basically put them back into French immersion, showing some results.

00:47:46.900 All right, Warren Kinsella.

00:47:47.760 Thanks so much for the update and go Habs go.

00:47:50.680 Go Habs go.

00:47:51.560 Thanks brother.

00:47:52.380 Yeah.

00:47:52.700 I don't know.

00:47:53.220 I'm going to have to watch.

00:47:54.000 I don't know what I'm going to watch on tape delay.

00:47:55.640 I don't know what I'm going to watch on social media.

00:47:57.080 There's going to be a lot to consume tonight for a person like myself.

00:47:59.700 I saw a video of some working dogs.

00:48:22.660 He's so happy to undo what he does

00:48:26.960 Money for a chase, it hurts, four-wheeler rides

00:48:30.780 Riding sheep, smile wide, deep sleep for life

00:48:35.100 But mankind, he's got no sense of hopeless

00:48:40.740 But mankind, it's all cool, sad, sad, pacifist

00:48:52.660 Picture being built for one thing

00:48:58.980 And when that thing is done, you feel free

00:49:02.800 Excovition, demolition, heavy timber frame

00:49:07.640 Machine shop, didn't shop, perfect machine

00:49:11.840 But mankind, that boat is on, is what a list

00:49:18.700 But mankind, he's busy drilling holes in it

00:49:25.820 And in time, we can confirm that there's no plan

00:49:34.200 He's left to guess from birth and every turn

00:49:42.780 Until the shop stopped at the end

00:49:46.060 He's made to crash the walls

00:49:48.780 And then his skull

00:49:50.740 Learned nothing to be dead

00:49:54.740 Terriers live to kill rats

00:50:14.120 Retrievers carry birds and reeds

00:50:19.000 But there's no reason for you to leave bed

00:50:22.660 No hardwired noise

00:50:25.120 Just a compass left spinning in your head

00:50:29.960 irgendwo a seat

00:50:31.880 With yourorian jam

00:50:33.460 Youller

00:50:35.640 So

00:50:36.460 To

00:50:37.640 The

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kinsellacast - April 20, 2025

KINSELLACAST 358： It's Easter! Short show, with Kheiriddin, Belanger, Mulroney - plus hardcore!

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