kinsellacast - KINSELLACAST 364： Ottawa's secret BFFs with Lilley, Kheiriddin, Mraz, Belanger, Mulroney plus guitar songs I like

00:00:00.000 It's the KinsellaCast, starring Warren Kinsella.

00:00:17.580 Hey, it's Warren. Welcome to the KinsellaCast on this first day of June that is not particularly

00:00:23.760 summer-like. It's quite frosty. I think it's about 100 degrees below zero. Slight exaggeration.

00:00:31.540 But it is not very summery, and I don't like that. But I've got a summery show for you,

00:00:36.580 one that's full of heat and sunshine. Brian Lilly, John Mraz, Tasha Carradine, Carl Belanger,

00:00:45.160 Ben Moroney, other people of significance, and bands that I like listening to, kind of guitar

00:00:52.580 bands. They're not bands that are just guitar bands, but they've got great guitar sounds,

00:00:59.660 these songs. I've played them for you before. The Creeps and Joyce Manor, two by them. Red

00:01:05.280 City Radio, Virginity, with one of my favorite songs of all time, I'm Expanding My Mind, which

00:01:11.840 is a cover, long story. But great stuff to make you think about summer and feel like you're

00:01:21.560 in a summer kind of mood. Secrets. I'm going to let you in on a secret. They're a lot friendlier

00:01:30.160 than you know. Members of Parliament, people in Ottawa, that is. Partisan differences not

00:01:37.380 withstanding, durable friendships persist behind the scenes. And evidence of that crept in full

00:01:43.260 public view this week as King Charles alighted on Canadian soil here in the colonies to read the

00:01:50.340 liberal platform speech from the throne, because that's what it was. And there were ministers and

00:01:55.600 MPs and senators and staffers and diplomats and hangers-on. They gathered on the hill for the

00:02:02.640 historic event, and things previously unseen became seen. So your liberal and conservative

00:02:09.040 partisans were astounded, for example, by the widely circulated photo of former Prime Ministers

00:02:15.720 Stephen Harper and Justin Trudeau, clearly enjoying each other's company. Harper was smiling,

00:02:22.560 Trudeau was laughing, and, you know, people were kind of shocked. I had some readers who apparently

00:02:30.800 believe that Question Period is real life. They were astounded. They were appalled.

00:02:34.980 Two-faced, said some guy on Reddit, although it's not clear which leader he or she was referring

00:02:41.440 to. Trudeau behaved like a child, said another one. And weak men in suits, said another one,

00:02:48.660 and so on and so on. Knowledgeable commenters thought the Trudeau-Harper exchange wasn't all

00:02:55.660 that unusual. It was nice, even. But the uninformed still don't seem to understand that Ottawa will

00:03:02.140 always, always be our Hollywood for ugly people. It's like pro wrestling, but without the sparkly

00:03:08.900 outfits. The hate is fake. Another example, Trudeau's footwear. Several conservative members

00:03:16.120 of the commentariat were positively in a lather that the former liberal leader would have had the

00:03:21.800 gall to show up in running shoes. CBC, naturally, spent time researching the origins of the Prime

00:03:29.580 Ministerial sneakers. Trudeau was wearing a pair of Adidas Gazelle shoes, reported a CBC journalist,

00:03:36.820 who, naturally, was paid by you, the taxpayer, to find out. The shoes cost about $150 on the Adidas

00:03:43.680 website, and the Trudeau haters were in a spit-flecked fury about the indignity of it all.

00:03:50.180 Dimitri Sudas, remember him? You shouldn't. He was one of Harper's PR fart catchers, and he declared,

00:03:58.000 I don't know what to say, which for him is a first. Some Trudeau critics even consulted

00:04:04.200 the Debreths, which is the style guide for British etiquette, and noted that, you know,

00:04:08.960 you're supposed to be, do your best to be correct, and even wear black tithes should be adhered to.

00:04:16.400 Well, you know, Trudeau didn't. The world didn't end. Nobody was killed. To me, the best response to

00:04:21.680 Adidas Gate came from a long-time conservative and former Harper diplomatic appointee, Vivian

00:04:28.640 Berkovici, who was our former ambassador to Israel, and full disclosure, we're friends. She said,

00:04:34.540 I think it was brilliant. Somebody made a point of telling staffers that he hates brown shoes.

00:04:38.840 Justin always had a thing for brown dress shoes. This is the most clever response. I agreed.

00:04:43.620 Pierre Polyev, no longer a member of parliament, showed up as a guest to listen to the king read

00:04:49.880 the speech from the throne, and the Beaverton said, Pierre Polyev attends speech from the throne

00:04:55.540 with face pressed against the Senate window. It was kind of mean, but it was funny. But nobody gave

00:05:01.960 Polyev a hard time for being in a spot typically reserved for elected members, which he is not.

00:05:08.060 Quite a few extended friendly greetings, and the day was like that. Word came that former Prime Minister

00:05:13.420 Jean Chrétien was not present because of minor heart surgery, and my inbox was flooded with

00:05:20.080 conservatives extending best wishes, and I passed them along to my former boss, who I spoke to,

00:05:26.060 and he's fine and resting comfortably at home. Mark Carney, Prime Minister, was spotted wearing the

00:05:33.360 larger of his Officer of the Order of Canada medals, which not only is he permitted to do, he's required

00:05:39.280 to do in the presence of the king. Notwithstanding that, conservative complainers carped about it.

00:05:46.100 One commented on my ex-feed, I'm surprised there's been zero commentary about our rather grand PM

00:05:52.820 wearing a giant medal to the throne speech. A giant medal. A giant medal. Like, for the love of God,

00:06:00.560 he's not dressing up as Flavor Flav. He's a member of the Order of Canada. It's allowed. Try and keep

00:06:07.100 up. And that, perhaps, is the best advice of all. Don't believe everything you see and hear, folks.

00:06:15.820 Ottawa is a lot like a hockey game. Everybody plays hard. Everyone gets their elbows up. And then when the

00:06:22.380 game is over, the jerseys come off and everybody gets together for a beer. It's Ottawa, after all. It's a few square,

00:06:30.380 acres surrounded by reality. And so, go Oilers!

00:06:35.700 If you really gotta tell me something, tell me something that I want to do.

00:07:05.700 I won't remember it all. I'm getting busy at the bottom of things.

00:07:17.300 I call time to practice everything. Except I'm sleeping out. I don't do that much these days.

00:07:27.100 I'm getting busy at the bottom of things.

00:07:35.700 Tell me the time. Tell me the time. I'll tell you the weakness. Tell me the time. I'll tell you what you've been. I don't remember the crimes.

00:07:47.300 don't remember the tears. I don't remember the tears. I don't remember the times. I'll tell you what you've been.

00:07:54.300 So if you really gotta tell me something

00:08:22.640 Tell me something that I won't remember at all

00:08:28.480 I'm getting busy at the bottom of things

00:08:33.040 Out of contact, I practice everything

00:08:41.720 Except sleeping on the human box these days

00:08:47.060 Getting useless at the bottom of things

00:08:52.020 Tell me the time, I'll tell you the weakness

00:08:59.960 Tell me the time, I'll tell you what you've been

00:09:04.400 I don't remember the crowds, I don't remember the heat

00:09:09.340 I don't remember the time, when you start making sense

00:09:14.580 I don't remember the time, I don't remember the time

00:09:23.340 guitar solo

00:09:53.340 I don't know

00:09:59.340 It's a long way

00:10:05.340 I don't know

00:10:09.340 It's a long way

00:10:13.340 I don't know

00:10:15.340 It's a long way

00:10:21.340 It's a long way

00:10:23.340 I don't know

00:10:25.340 I don't do it

00:10:27.340 It's a long way

00:10:29.340 It's a long way

00:10:33.340 And we're back

00:10:45.340 And we're back with Brian Lilly and Brian.

00:10:47.340 The Tories have set a leadership review date for March of next year.

00:10:55.340 And I didn't cite your name, but I cited your information on CFRA this morning, pointing out that guys like me thought that Andrew Scheer and Aaron O'Toole were fine with their leaderships and it ended up being not so much fine.

00:11:09.340 So what do you think the future holds for Mr. Polyev?

00:11:13.340 At this point, you would have to say he's still pretty much secure in his position as leader of the Conservative Party.

00:11:21.340 But look, this leadership review is not an attempt to get rid of him.

00:11:25.340 It's something that the party constitution requires them to do at a certain point.

00:11:29.340 So they were looking for the date that they could do it.

00:11:33.340 They settled on next March.

00:11:35.340 So it's not a palace coup.

00:11:37.340 This does, however, set the stage shift that if someone wants to stage a palace coup, this is how and when you do it.

00:11:43.340 You'd organize against him.

00:11:45.340 Who would do that, though?

00:11:47.340 That's tough to tell.

00:11:49.340 The Conservatives invoked the Reform Act, which gives the caucus the ability to throw Polyev out.

00:11:54.340 But they've done that for the past, you know, several years.

00:11:58.340 So that's not new.

00:12:00.340 But, you know, Polyev still has the grassroots of the party backing him.

00:12:05.340 And woe the party caucus that decided to chuck someone that was popular with the grassroots.

00:12:13.340 You wouldn't be getting an awful lot of support.

00:12:16.340 But that doesn't mean something won't happen.

00:12:19.340 So I'll be watching it.

00:12:21.340 Interesting to watch what Polyev is doing, though.

00:12:23.340 He has been showing up at the House of Commons.

00:12:25.340 He has been speaking to the media, doing scrums, either before big events or after question period, things like that.

00:12:33.340 He's also started a sub stack.

00:12:36.340 He started doing video commentary again and just dropped one yesterday, interviewing Alice Ross, former BCMLA, who is now a conservative MP, indigenous leader in British Columbia, who is a big supporter of the oil and gas sector.

00:12:55.340 So he's trying to make sure that he stays relevant.

00:12:58.340 Now, but if I'm, you know, to use your word, the grassroots, if I'm a grassroots conservative, I've been working hard for Pierre Polyev for the past three years nearly.

00:13:08.340 So I'm unhappy that a big lead was blown during the election.

00:13:14.340 I'm unhappy that Pierre Polyev lost his own seat.

00:13:17.340 I'm unhappy.

00:13:18.340 And so what do they do to?

00:13:20.340 Well, let me put it this way.

00:13:22.340 You know, you talk to a lot of conservative liberals and new Democrats.

00:13:26.340 What are the conservative grassroots saying to you right now?

00:13:29.340 Are they cranky?

00:13:30.340 Are they cranky?

00:13:31.340 Does, is there something that Polyev needs to worry about?

00:13:36.340 They're still mostly blaming, uh, either the media or Trump, which is valid blaming Trump.

00:13:44.340 Um, uh, less so the media, uh, they're, you know, cursing liberals.

00:13:51.340 There's quiet complaints about how the campaign was run, how MPs, uh, weren't used, you know, things that you and I've talked about before.

00:14:01.340 Secondary tour wasn't utilized properly, you know, finding the people with the, you know, regional clout to go out.

00:14:09.340 And while the leaders in a different part of the country go out and rally the troops and get people excited in, in different regions.

00:14:16.340 That wasn't used.

00:14:18.340 MPs were never introduced on stage or rarely.

00:14:20.340 So all those things are being, uh, griped about, uh, some people are griping about Jenny Byrne.

00:14:27.340 Others say, no, she's still got to stay.

00:14:29.340 Some people who are saying she's got to stay surprise me.

00:14:33.340 So, you know, look, I think they're still licking their wounds and doing their postmortems.

00:14:38.340 There is no move at this point though, to, uh, to oust him that, that I've seen.

00:14:45.340 You know, if you remember the day after, uh, Aaron O'Toole lost, I had, um, uh, Bert Chen from the national council calling me to say, Aaron O'Toole has to go.

00:14:56.340 And I had to say, who is Bert Chen?

00:14:58.340 Well, let's talk about Jenny Byrne, who you've just referenced.

00:15:02.340 Uh, I think a lot of the commentary better is unfair speaking as a former strategist.

00:15:07.340 I I'd like to assure everybody that a single strategist is not responsible for an election win or an election loss, but it seems to be convenient for some people to try to throw her under the bus.

00:15:20.340 What's your take?

00:15:21.340 Do you, do you think the criticism is fair or not?

00:15:24.340 Um, she got to 41.3% of the vote that would normally win you a majority.

00:15:31.340 Um, this was a very different, uh, game.

00:15:36.340 Um, they were smart in some of the things they did dumb and others.

00:15:40.340 So the only thing that I think you could blame Jenny Byrne for is the, uh, the, the lack of, um, outreach to other sections of the conservative party and movement that could have helped them.

00:15:54.340 Um, get over that finish line.

00:15:56.340 Um, you know, the Doug Fords, the Tim Houstons, the Jason Kenney's, the Peter McKay's, the, you know, reaching out to folks that have clout in certain places, you know, utilizing past, uh, uh, stars of the party other than Stephen Harper.

00:16:12.340 Um, that's about all that, that I can say, um, you know, is, is all her fault.

00:16:19.340 Um, maybe a bit of the edginess, but that helped draw some people in, repelled others.

00:16:24.340 It's a very tight election, remember?

00:16:26.340 So, you know, maybe the outreach and patching up old wounds, if it had been done ahead of time, may have helped.

00:16:33.340 That's hindsight and hindsight's always 20, 20.

00:16:36.340 But, you know, the idea that she blew everything, getting to 41.3% in a usual Canadian election is a massive victory.

00:16:46.340 Another week and the conservatives very likely could have won the most seats, not enough to have a majority, but I think they would have won the most seats if the campaign had gone one week longer.

00:16:58.340 So I, you know, it is unfair to, to blame her.

00:17:02.340 How do you win in this situation?

00:17:04.340 You and I talked about this with Lori Goldstein in one of our son videos.

00:17:08.340 Uh, you know, if, if Carney does a decent job and sticks around for the next election, how do you win in a rematch?

00:17:16.340 If he does a horrible job, if the economy tanks, if, if, if, you know, if there are changes, then yeah, you can still win.

00:17:24.340 If things remain the same and he does a good job, it's going to be tough for them to win, whether it's Polyev or someone else's leader.

00:17:31.340 Well, let's conclude by talking about that, how Carney is doing.

00:17:35.340 You know, I, I opined on X this morning.

00:17:38.340 It looks to me like conservative partisans are trying to work themselves up into a lather about Carney in the way that they did about Trudeau, but they're having a hard time kind of laying a glove on him.

00:17:49.340 You know, you know, his party, you know, if their election was held today, he'd win, win again, not a majority, but he went again.

00:17:56.340 How do you think he did in his throne speech?

00:17:58.340 I thought it was just basically a recitation of the liberal platform by his majesty.

00:18:04.340 Um, so far, you know, however much the Tories and the others are trying, they can't seem to take him down a notch or, or am I right?

00:18:16.340 I think you're right on that.

00:18:18.340 Um, he, but I mean, we're still in the wait and see mode.

00:18:22.340 He gets the benefit of the doubt until he doesn't, you know, does he deliver?

00:18:25.340 And I think tomorrow with the, uh, first ministers is going to be a big show and tell moment.

00:18:31.340 Does he arrive and deliver something?

00:18:34.340 Um, you know, these projects of national interest, there was a Canadian press report last week.

00:18:40.340 They got ahold of a document showing that he is going to show up at the first ministers meeting with something of substance.

00:18:46.340 If he does that, he continues to get the benefit of the doubt.

00:18:50.340 If he just keeps talking and look, I get it.

00:18:53.340 It's just been talking up until now you had the liberal leadership and you had the campaign.

00:18:57.340 Then you had the speech from the throne.

00:18:59.340 Um, that's all just talking.

00:19:03.340 Those are nice words starting tomorrow.

00:19:06.340 He's got to deliver.

00:19:08.340 And if he does good things happen to him and hopefully to the country, you got to cheer for Canada.

00:19:14.340 Even if the guy that you didn't want to win, won the election.

00:19:17.340 Um, and I always cheer for Canada.

00:19:20.340 So, you know, if he brings about these projects, if he gets things going, then he'll, he'll continue to do well.

00:19:28.340 You know, hopefully, uh, the throne speech is the last time we see Justin Trudeau for a while.

00:19:33.340 Uh, Peter Pan Peacock showing up, uh, in his green running shoes, trying to take the attention away from the new government, from King Charles, from the speech.

00:19:42.340 Um, and kind of flipping the bird at, uh, Carney's edict that if you work in the PMO, you'll show up dressed properly.

00:19:49.340 Uh, hopefully Trudeau's gone now.

00:19:51.340 Uh, and, and we start seeing responsible leadership in the, uh, uh, the head of government.

00:19:58.340 Well, hopefully we see some, uh, rain too, for the prairies, uh, friends and family.

00:20:04.340 Um, things are getting, um, very challenging for people from Manitoba to Saskatchewan with the wildfires there.

00:20:12.340 It's actually affecting the premiers and the get together.

00:20:15.340 So, um, cheers for Canada, as you say, and prayers for our friends on the prairies.

00:20:20.340 So Brian, let it rain.

00:20:21.340 Yeah. Let it rain.

00:20:22.340 Thanks so much.

00:20:23.340 My friend.

00:20:24.340 Talk soon.

00:20:25.340 She don't want to write a song

00:20:43.820 She knows exactly when and where and what went wrong

00:20:49.320 Besides, it's been too long

00:20:55.340 And she don't mean to be undressed

00:20:59.480 She's just indifferent to the old blue fact

00:21:05.980 But you can't go back

00:21:09.520 She's the only one who could take you to a pawn shop

00:21:16.700 And sell you for twice what you're worth

00:21:19.180 But by the times you were hurt

00:21:23.320 To be loved

00:21:25.320 And one day you will realize

00:21:46.800 You are nothing, nothing without her

00:21:51.800 You're an asshole from a bar

00:21:53.400 On a break in a break room

00:21:54.840 And you're never happy

00:21:56.340 Cause she's the only one who could take you to a pawn shop

00:22:03.940 And sell you for twice what you're worth

00:22:06.260 Nobody tells you it hurts

00:22:10.400 To be loved

00:22:12.400 And we're back, we're back with John Mraz

00:22:34.800 to talk about international affairs

00:22:36.380 Hopefully we avoid any of the technological bugs

00:22:39.360 That we had in the past two weeks

00:22:42.440 John, an extraordinary post made by Donald Trump

00:22:48.620 Who unfortunately is the President of the United States

00:22:50.620 On his Truth Social platform this week

00:22:55.220 I'm going to read it to you

00:22:56.300 There is no Joe Biden executed in 2020

00:23:00.460 Biden clones, doubles, and robotic, engineered, soulless, mindless entities

00:23:06.920 Are what you see

00:23:08.560 Democrats don't know the difference

00:23:11.300 Mega

00:23:11.940 Is he trolling us?

00:23:17.200 Is it all about

00:23:17.920 Well, you're laughing

00:23:18.940 Is it funny?

00:23:20.480 Or is it serious?

00:23:22.180 No, it's terrifying

00:23:23.460 I mean, you have three options here

00:23:24.980 One is

00:23:25.700 He's gotten into Elon Musk's pill case

00:23:28.480 And he's loaded on MDMA, ketamine

00:23:30.740 And a variety of other pharmaceuticals

00:23:33.120 That nobody should be wandering around

00:23:34.500 And power-taking

00:23:35.340 B is

00:23:36.700 He really believes this shit

00:23:39.120 And that's a terrifying concept

00:23:42.420 Because he's in charge of the largest military force

00:23:46.060 And the most important political force in the world

00:23:49.480 And C is

00:23:50.480 And it's the most likely one

00:23:51.660 Is he thinks that's funny

00:23:52.840 For Canada

00:23:55.680 For us

00:23:56.400 You know

00:23:56.820 Apologies for getting parochial

00:23:58.960 But, you know

00:24:00.240 On the day that

00:24:01.100 We had His Majesty here

00:24:03.220 Reading the speech of the throne

00:24:04.440 Which was essentially the liberal platform

00:24:06.480 It wasn't terribly offensive

00:24:09.500 Towards the United States

00:24:10.980 I don't think it was provocative

00:24:12.120 But Trump responded by talking about his golden dome

00:24:16.100 We should talk about that in a minute

00:24:17.540 It obviously got under his skin to some extent

00:24:21.660 Should we in Canada be worried about

00:24:24.380 Trump's apparently growing instability?

00:24:29.780 See, again

00:24:31.200 You know

00:24:32.120 There are people out there

00:24:33.840 Who swear on their mothers

00:24:35.660 And the gods they believe in

00:24:37.060 That this guy just has a great sense of humor

00:24:39.180 That behind it all

00:24:40.520 He's cautious

00:24:42.180 He's thoughtful

00:24:43.200 He knows exactly what he's doing

00:24:44.940 That chaos is an illusion

00:24:46.340 That all the smoke and fire

00:24:47.900 Are just effects

00:24:49.320 And that he genuinely believes

00:24:52.180 That that golden dome

00:24:53.720 Will protect

00:24:54.440 I mean, self-evidently

00:24:55.880 If he creates a golden dome

00:24:57.300 And to explain to the listenership

00:24:58.920 Yeah, tell people

00:25:00.140 For those who aren't familiar with it

00:25:01.980 Tell people what is meant

00:25:03.440 By this golden dome thing

00:25:04.920 Golden dome reminds me

00:25:06.920 Of sort of a version 2.0

00:25:08.860 Of Reagan's Star Wars

00:25:10.980 Which is to protect

00:25:12.300 North America

00:25:13.660 From space

00:25:14.840 With a nuclear arsenal

00:25:17.100 And an inter-ballistic arsenal

00:25:19.020 That will completely protect

00:25:20.740 The U.S.

00:25:21.320 From any attack

00:25:22.400 Any ICBM coming in

00:25:24.320 A golden dome

00:25:26.060 Really, I think

00:25:26.820 Named after

00:25:27.700 The iron dome

00:25:28.820 That Israel uses

00:25:30.020 To protect itself

00:25:31.060 From attacks

00:25:31.560 Is it possible?

00:25:32.460 You and I have been in Israel

00:25:34.280 We've seen that

00:25:35.840 The iron dome there

00:25:37.000 In a country

00:25:38.400 The size of New Jersey

00:25:39.440 Doesn't always work

00:25:40.740 Is it possible

00:25:41.940 To protect an entire continent

00:25:43.700 With a golden dome?

00:25:45.740 I don't know

00:25:47.080 There are people

00:25:48.020 Like Elon Musk

00:25:49.120 Who say it can be done

00:25:50.280 In three years

00:25:50.920 For X amount of money

00:25:52.080 Is it possible?

00:25:54.400 I'm not an engineer

00:25:55.380 I don't know

00:25:56.200 Is it a dangerous thing

00:25:58.080 To even suggest?

00:25:59.120 Yes

00:25:59.400 Because it would give

00:26:00.540 The United States

00:26:01.460 A solitary

00:26:03.200 Unique protection

00:26:04.880 That the rest of the world

00:26:05.920 Does not have

00:26:07.280 And China

00:26:08.640 And Russia

00:26:09.300 And India

00:26:10.020 And the other major powers

00:26:11.400 Are going to be low

00:26:12.440 Because that gives

00:26:14.180 America an exceptionalism

00:26:15.780 To act abroad

00:26:16.820 As it sees fit

00:26:18.100 And never take

00:26:19.120 Any responsibility

00:26:20.160 Or never see any consequences

00:26:22.080 For its actions

00:26:22.960 It's

00:26:24.240 Destabilization

00:26:25.520 Of mutually

00:26:26.880 Assured destruction

00:26:28.800 Which is what

00:26:29.460 Has kept us

00:26:30.200 From the nuclear precipice

00:26:31.480 For what?

00:26:31.940 80 years now

00:26:32.680 Speaking of destabilization

00:26:34.820 We've now had

00:26:36.280 Putin

00:26:37.580 Flaunting

00:26:38.660 Just basically

00:26:40.020 Disregarding

00:26:40.840 Completely

00:26:41.440 Disrespecting

00:26:42.620 Donald Trump's

00:26:43.980 Authority

00:26:44.740 And power

00:26:45.460 Trump who said

00:26:46.380 He would settle

00:26:47.080 The Ukraine

00:26:48.280 Russian conflict

00:26:49.500 On the first day

00:26:50.560 Of his presidency

00:26:51.500 I guess

00:26:52.440 I guess that hasn't

00:26:53.040 Happened

00:26:53.540 What does that mean

00:26:55.240 You know

00:26:55.700 It was

00:26:56.280 Something else

00:26:57.440 Because you

00:26:58.040 See

00:26:58.480 Watching

00:26:58.960 MAGA

00:26:59.480 React to the fact

00:27:00.680 That Putin

00:27:01.220 Is now openly

00:27:02.260 Disrespecting

00:27:03.720 Their guy

00:27:04.300 Do we think

00:27:06.220 Do you think

00:27:07.020 That it's

00:27:07.480 Meaningful

00:27:08.300 Is it going to

00:27:08.980 Result in

00:27:09.760 Trump actually

00:27:10.660 Doing something

00:27:11.480 About

00:27:11.900 Putin's position

00:27:13.580 Or

00:27:14.480 Is it just

00:27:15.480 Going to be

00:27:15.820 A continuation

00:27:16.380 Of what we've got

00:27:17.240 Now

00:27:17.520 I don't know

00:27:19.000 But I do know

00:27:19.660 In one way

00:27:20.380 It's reassuring

00:27:21.260 Because it

00:27:22.160 Reassures me

00:27:23.680 That Vladimir Putin

00:27:24.780 And Donald Trump

00:27:25.520 Are not lying

00:27:26.240 In bed together

00:27:27.040 Right

00:27:27.840 So they're clearly

00:27:29.100 At odds now

00:27:29.900 And I think

00:27:30.660 Trump has suggested

00:27:31.660 If I read correctly

00:27:32.720 This week

00:27:33.200 At some point

00:27:33.920 A 500

00:27:34.700 Point tariff

00:27:36.880 On any country

00:27:38.020 That buys

00:27:38.740 Russian oil

00:27:39.620 If Putin doesn't

00:27:40.640 Come to the table

00:27:41.360 Negotiate in good faith

00:27:42.680 And truce

00:27:43.860 Or treaty

00:27:44.780 With the Ukrainians

00:27:45.740 As soon as possible

00:27:46.760 Now

00:27:47.140 Right now

00:27:48.360 Putin is running

00:27:49.000 On an oil economy

00:27:50.080 So that would

00:27:51.780 If you could

00:27:53.240 Even impose

00:27:53.980 Those sanctions

00:27:54.700 And actually

00:27:55.560 Make people pay

00:27:56.580 That would have

00:27:57.760 A serious effect

00:27:59.240 On Putin

00:27:59.760 And his ability

00:28:00.580 Having said all that

00:28:02.160 Vladimir Putin

00:28:03.060 Somewhat like Iran

00:28:04.240 Doesn't seem to really

00:28:06.180 Give a shit

00:28:06.780 What Trump says

00:28:07.680 Because he never

00:28:08.420 Really follows up

00:28:09.280 On anything

00:28:09.720 Does him

00:28:10.180 Hence the damn

00:28:11.000 Taco

00:28:11.540 Taco

00:28:12.140 Trump

00:28:13.040 Trump always

00:28:14.640 Chickens out

00:28:15.420 So says

00:28:16.000 Wall Street

00:28:16.540 Well let's

00:28:17.220 Talk about

00:28:17.660 Iran

00:28:17.980 Which you've

00:28:18.380 Just raised

00:28:19.000 Apparently

00:28:20.120 They're still

00:28:21.120 Engaged in

00:28:21.780 Discussions

00:28:22.280 With Trump

00:28:22.960 But they're

00:28:23.660 Also still

00:28:24.480 Simultaneously

00:28:25.740 Engaged in

00:28:26.640 Enriching uranium

00:28:27.580 In order to

00:28:28.340 Create a bomb

00:28:29.120 What is

00:28:30.260 Happening in

00:28:30.960 Iran

00:28:31.260 What are

00:28:31.520 Your sources

00:28:32.020 Telling us

00:28:32.740 Well I

00:28:33.860 I think

00:28:34.320 That it's

00:28:34.860 It's been

00:28:35.220 A well

00:28:35.780 Known

00:28:36.780 Poorly kept

00:28:38.020 Secret

00:28:38.400 That Iran

00:28:38.900 Never ever

00:28:39.580 Stopped

00:28:40.240 Developing

00:28:41.120 Enriching

00:28:42.000 Uranium

00:28:42.480 And developing

00:28:43.140 Its nuclear

00:28:44.100 Capacity

00:28:44.760 I remember

00:28:45.700 A day

00:28:46.100 You probably

00:28:46.540 Remember a day

00:28:47.180 When North Korea

00:28:47.980 Didn't have

00:28:48.700 Nuclear weapons

00:28:49.480 And we kept

00:28:50.020 On negotiating

00:28:50.660 With them

00:28:51.120 And the next

00:28:51.940 Thing you know

00:28:52.240 They did

00:28:52.660 And the negotiations

00:28:53.600 Are now moot

00:28:54.360 Iran

00:28:55.700 Is clearly

00:28:57.440 On a path

00:28:58.360 To nuclear

00:28:59.820 Capacity

00:29:00.440 And it certainly

00:29:01.300 Has the missile

00:29:01.940 Capacity to

00:29:02.780 Deliver those

00:29:03.480 Nukes already

00:29:04.080 Much better

00:29:05.380 By the way

00:29:05.940 Missile capacity

00:29:06.820 Than even North Korea

00:29:07.820 Has today

00:29:08.440 They sell the shit

00:29:09.400 Everywhere

00:29:09.940 They've also

00:29:11.100 Demonstrated a

00:29:11.940 Complete contempt

00:29:13.180 For the lives

00:29:13.840 Of their own

00:29:14.420 People and their

00:29:15.260 Allies

00:29:15.680 Hezbollah

00:29:16.440 Hamas

00:29:17.000 Etc

00:29:17.380 They are

00:29:18.420 Definitely

00:29:19.380 Not ideological

00:29:20.740 But theological

00:29:21.960 Lunatics

00:29:22.980 The people who

00:29:23.640 Run that government

00:29:24.400 And if you give

00:29:25.240 Them nuclear weapons

00:29:26.220 It would not

00:29:27.120 Be impossible

00:29:28.160 To imagine

00:29:28.840 Them just

00:29:29.340 Trying to blow

00:29:30.700 Israel right

00:29:32.300 Off the map

00:29:32.920 Despite the fact

00:29:33.920 It would kill

00:29:34.400 A lot of their

00:29:34.900 Own people

00:29:35.440 They don't seem

00:29:36.200 To care about

00:29:36.860 Their own people

00:29:37.520 So you have

00:29:38.720 Option A

00:29:39.440 Trump says

00:29:40.340 Hey Israel

00:29:41.060 We're going to

00:29:41.580 Go to the

00:29:41.860 Negotiating table

00:29:42.660 Give them some

00:29:43.300 More time

00:29:43.940 While they delay

00:29:45.480 Us and say

00:29:46.160 Yeah we're going

00:29:46.900 To or

00:29:47.780 You let Israel

00:29:48.940 Go and Israel

00:29:50.300 Bombs the shit

00:29:51.060 Out of them

00:29:51.460 And blows those

00:29:52.200 Facilities up

00:29:52.980 As they have

00:29:53.780 Historically

00:29:54.500 They've already

00:29:55.040 Done stuff like

00:29:55.740 That historically

00:29:56.380 And and

00:29:57.120 I remember

00:29:58.180 Them blowing

00:29:58.660 Up centrifuges

00:29:59.540 With software

00:30:00.120 From the inside

00:30:01.000 Just to stop

00:30:01.900 This very same

00:30:02.900 Program

00:30:03.320 So Israel

00:30:04.780 May act

00:30:05.320 Unilaterally

00:30:06.040 What happens

00:30:06.820 Then I don't

00:30:07.520 Know

00:30:07.720 So let's

00:30:08.740 Conclude by

00:30:09.280 Talking about

00:30:09.920 Israel

00:30:10.260 I just got

00:30:10.820 Back from there

00:30:11.440 You've been

00:30:11.780 There many

00:30:12.200 Times

00:30:12.700 Looks to me

00:30:13.960 Like BB

00:30:15.000 Benjamin Netanyahu

00:30:16.440 Is increasingly

00:30:17.300 Isolated

00:30:18.000 Trump when I

00:30:19.480 Was in

00:30:20.080 Israel

00:30:20.680 Made a

00:30:21.620 Decision to

00:30:22.480 Visit all the

00:30:23.280 Gulf states

00:30:24.160 And receive

00:30:24.720 All kinds

00:30:25.160 Of largesse

00:30:26.000 And bribes

00:30:27.200 But did not

00:30:28.440 Set foot in

00:30:29.700 Israel

00:30:30.100 And he's been

00:30:31.280 Increasingly

00:30:32.200 Or his

00:30:32.640 Administration has

00:30:33.420 Been increasingly

00:30:34.120 Critical

00:30:34.940 Netanyahu's

00:30:36.980 Decisions

00:30:37.560 One of which

00:30:38.920 Includes

00:30:39.520 Expanding

00:30:40.320 Settlements

00:30:40.840 In the

00:30:41.120 West Bank

00:30:41.620 Which is

00:30:42.040 Provocative

00:30:42.740 And guaranteed

00:30:43.400 More war

00:30:44.120 What do you

00:30:44.780 Think is

00:30:45.140 Is the

00:30:45.680 Future hold

00:30:46.500 In the

00:30:46.900 Near term

00:30:47.880 For Netanyahu

00:30:49.040 In my view

00:30:49.800 Who is not

00:30:50.840 Israel

00:30:51.440 A lot of

00:30:52.360 People seem

00:30:52.740 To think he

00:30:53.180 Is but he

00:30:53.620 Is not

00:30:54.080 Yeah but

00:30:55.580 Most people

00:30:56.220 Cannot separate

00:30:57.280 Netanyahu

00:30:57.900 From Israel

00:30:58.660 And Netanyahu

00:30:59.580 Has been there

00:31:00.100 For so long

00:31:00.800 That people

00:31:01.300 Rightly say

00:31:02.280 They rightly

00:31:03.680 Say just

00:31:04.360 As they say

00:31:05.100 In Gaza

00:31:05.880 If you were

00:31:06.520 Prepared to

00:31:07.220 Have Hamas

00:31:07.920 Rule you

00:31:08.700 For 20

00:31:09.800 Years or

00:31:10.220 Almost 20

00:31:10.800 Years right

00:31:11.260 Since 2006

00:31:12.300 If you're

00:31:13.260 Prepared to

00:31:13.820 Support Hamas

00:31:14.640 To this

00:31:15.300 Moment then

00:31:16.400 Palestinians

00:31:17.180 Equal Hamas

00:31:18.480 If you're

00:31:19.440 Prepared to

00:31:19.980 Have Bibi

00:31:20.660 Netanyahu

00:31:21.200 Rule your

00:31:21.920 Country for

00:31:22.520 How many

00:31:22.920 Years now

00:31:23.420 Over a

00:31:24.020 Decade

00:31:24.400 Right

00:31:24.640 If you're

00:31:25.280 Prepared to

00:31:25.760 Have him

00:31:26.160 There

00:31:26.400 Then Israel

00:31:27.580 Equals

00:31:28.100 Netanyahu

00:31:28.680 And it's

00:31:28.940 Very difficult

00:31:29.760 To not

00:31:30.340 To dissuade

00:31:31.500 People or

00:31:32.080 To dissemble

00:31:32.740 That argument

00:31:33.500 I watch

00:31:34.380 People like

00:31:35.140 Bob Ray

00:31:35.720 Who is

00:31:36.060 Certainly no

00:31:36.680 Anti-Semite

00:31:37.500 Our ambassador

00:31:38.500 At the UN

00:31:39.100 And certainly

00:31:40.900 A guy who's

00:31:41.540 Been an

00:31:41.860 Activist

00:31:42.440 And pro-Israeli

00:31:43.820 His whole life

00:31:44.400 I am watching

00:31:45.320 Him start to

00:31:46.280 Take apart

00:31:46.960 Bibi

00:31:47.960 His policies

00:31:48.800 And what's

00:31:49.400 Going on

00:31:49.920 In Gaza

00:31:50.560 When Bob

00:31:51.400 Ray starts

00:31:52.120 Backing up

00:31:52.820 The UN

00:31:53.300 Over Bibi

00:31:55.020 Netanyahu

00:31:55.460 You know

00:31:55.860 You have a

00:31:56.360 Problem

00:31:56.720 Because Bob

00:31:57.660 Cannot be

00:31:58.340 Accused of

00:31:58.820 Being an

00:31:59.140 Anti-Semite

00:31:59.800 Or soft on

00:32:00.540 Israel's right

00:32:01.180 To exist

00:32:01.780 Bibi's got

00:32:03.260 To go

00:32:03.620 The whole

00:32:04.220 World knows

00:32:04.780 It

00:32:04.940 Israel knows

00:32:05.680 It

00:32:05.860 And Israel

00:32:06.680 Better get

00:32:07.400 Rid of him

00:32:07.880 Quickly

00:32:08.320 Well said

00:32:10.920 I agree with

00:32:11.800 You

00:32:11.960 I think that

00:32:12.840 He has been

00:32:13.540 Immensely damaging

00:32:14.540 To Israel's

00:32:15.420 Interest

00:32:15.880 And I support

00:32:16.900 Israel

00:32:17.260 And so do

00:32:17.800 You

00:32:18.000 Well listen man

00:32:19.160 Thank you so much

00:32:20.020 For your insight

00:32:20.760 And your wisdom

00:32:21.340 This week

00:32:21.920 Much appreciated

00:32:23.400 Have a wonderful

00:32:24.440 Day

00:32:24.780 And a wonderful

00:32:25.440 Week

00:32:25.800 It's my

00:32:26.720 Pleasure

00:32:27.080 Eiko

00:32:27.440 Eiko

00:32:27.720 We'll be right back.

00:32:57.720 So I hit by the couch, you were talking so loudly, I don't know what about, but you were drunker than high school. Self-conscious and sweet, I never ever felt so cool. Disguised in your sheets, but I'm a constant headache.

00:33:17.240 I'm too subtle and they try to make you a credit, you tell them, no, not this time, I'm just a constant headache. A dead pet device, you hang me up.

00:33:47.240 And then you finally found me, pretending to sleep. You said such nice things about me, I felt guilty and cheap.

00:34:03.440 You took two steps to the kitchen, just stared at the sink. I couldn't hold back a smile, I still wish I could have seen.

00:34:13.020 You having sex in the morning, your love was foreign to me. It made me think maybe human's not such a bad thing to be.

00:34:23.120 But I just lay there in protest, entirely fucked. It's such a stubborn reminder, one perfect night's not enough.

00:34:32.860 It's just a constant headache, a two-sided line. They try to make you a credit, you tell, no, not this time.

00:34:43.380 It's just a constant headache, a dead pet device, you hang me up. I'm finished with a better part of me, no longer mine.

00:34:54.860 I'm finished with a better part of me, no longer mine.

00:35:24.840 This is CFRA Live, Sunday political panel.

00:35:33.140 And welcome to it. Joining our political panel this morning, Tasha Carradine, political columnist for the National Post, writer for GZERO Media and an author.

00:35:40.220 Tasha, good morning.

00:35:41.660 Good morning.

00:35:42.440 Also here this morning, Warren Kinsella. He is a strategist and post-media columnist. Good morning, Warren.

00:35:46.920 Good morning.

00:35:47.840 And Carl Belanger, our player to be named later here in a few minutes, I'm guessing here.

00:35:51.920 I wanted to get to a couple of things, not to go back too far in terms of the throne speech that we did see this week.

00:35:57.580 It was nice to see King Charles here doing the visit, lots of symbolism involved.

00:36:02.080 It's kind of wondering, though, given the message that this was supposed to send, this was kind of supposed to be a message to the U.S. about our sovereignty.

00:36:08.580 But, you know, before the end of the week, we've got Donald Trump reiterating the 51st state comments, doubling steel and aluminum tariffs.

00:36:16.980 Tasha, I know this was kind of a symbolic gesture.

00:36:20.160 Did it really get the message across to the U.S. that it was supposed to?

00:36:23.300 Or was this, you know, a domestic message the whole time?

00:36:25.580 I think it was designed to send a message to the U.S.

00:36:30.160 I mean, but Donald Trump changes his mind based on the last person who talks to him.

00:36:35.100 So, you know, he says he's here doubling steel and aluminum tariffs because he's talking to people in the industry.

00:36:42.060 And it's something that he has to do, bring the industry back.

00:36:46.780 Look, it's, you know, I think that every day is a new day there.

00:36:52.020 And so I think that the message, I think the message was also sent to Europe.

00:36:55.560 It was sent to other parts of the world, too, to show that Canada is not going to bend.

00:37:01.020 That, I think, also was a very important part of the message.

00:37:04.360 You know, we're going to be joining the European defense group.

00:37:07.680 We're going to be expanding our presence in the Arctic.

00:37:11.500 And, you know, I had mixed feelings about the King's speech.

00:37:14.200 I thought it hit the mark on some things and not on others that left out the West.

00:37:17.540 Notably, there was really no discussion of unity, reconciliation or anything like that.

00:37:22.180 And I thought that was a missed opportunity for a domestic audience, which was also watching this speech.

00:37:29.100 But I do think that it was, I mean, I think it was a success overall.

00:37:32.580 And what Trump does now, well, what Trump does next week, who knows?

00:37:37.080 We will do our best to deal with it.

00:37:39.060 I want to circle back to that Western Canada left out kind of sentiment there in a second.

00:37:42.840 But Warren, did the message, I guess, did it, did this do what the Prime Minister hoped it would do?

00:37:48.980 Tasha raises a good point in terms of sending a message to the rest of the world.

00:37:52.120 Did this do anything to deter, you know, U.S. President Donald Trump from whatever it is that he's going to do?

00:37:57.400 Well, no, it didn't.

00:37:58.780 He immediately or very, you know, almost simultaneously with the throne speech landing tweeted again about Canada and his Golden Dome fantasy and how, you know, it wouldn't cost us anything if we become part of the United States.

00:38:14.940 Because I had felt that, you know, if you look at his history, he's very preoccupied with the royals.

00:38:21.220 He loves the gold and the guilt and the glamour and all the rest of it.

00:38:26.260 And, you know, they're one of the few groups that he actually pays some respect to.

00:38:31.640 So I thought it was clever of Carney to ask, you know, his majesty to read the speech from the throne.

00:38:40.100 He wanted to send a message, I think, to Trump in a way that wasn't aggressive, but, you know, sent a message, which is we are a sovereign state and we're not going to become part of the United States, nor do we want to.

00:38:55.900 So I thought it worked.

00:38:58.260 And I think the evidence that it worked is that it roused Trump from his slumber.

00:39:04.800 And, you know, he hasn't been as aggressive with Carney as he was with Trudeau.

00:39:11.340 Obviously, there was a lot of personal animus there.

00:39:14.120 But, you know, we're not out of the woods yet.

00:39:16.020 As long as this guy remains president of the United States with total control over, you know, Congress and Senate and the Supreme Court, he remains a threat to our sovereignty.

00:39:26.400 I guess when he comes up with a nickname for Carney, that's how we'll know we're really in trouble at some point, I guess.

00:39:31.180 But the president of Traction Strategies, Carl Belanger, is also here.

00:39:34.520 Carl, we've been talking about the throne speech.

00:39:36.580 Did this do what the prime minister hoped it would do in your mind in terms of sending that message to the U.S.?

00:39:42.020 I kind of preface that, you know, given before the end of the week, we did see more 51st state comments from the U.S. president.

00:39:48.400 Yeah.

00:39:48.840 And it put to rest the notion that the new American ambassador was somehow attached to the hip with the president.

00:39:56.380 Yeah.

00:39:57.740 Because he clearly, you know, it was supposed to be behind us, this talk about 51st state.

00:40:03.580 And clearly it is not.

00:40:05.080 So, you know, it did send some message to some people, but I'm not sure they are received.

00:40:12.960 And that's what matters, right?

00:40:14.560 And interestingly enough, on the domestic front, and I know we'll get to the West in a minute, but in Quebec, Quebecers were impressed by the king's French.

00:40:24.900 It is significantly better than the governor general, Mary Simon, not as good as his mother, but it was well received in Quebec because of that.

00:40:35.780 That said, politically, it also triggered a unanimous motion from the National Assembly to cut ties with the monarchy.

00:40:41.200 So, you know, make of that what you may.

00:40:45.160 It was the first time since the repatriation of the Constitution that the royal was coming down here to deliver the throne speech.

00:40:56.060 I don't know when the next time will be, but I don't expect it will be anytime soon.

00:41:00.900 No doubt.

00:41:02.000 And you mentioned just kind of the Western Canada part of this as well.

00:41:05.080 And Tasha, you kind of brought that up.

00:41:06.660 We've got a first minister's meeting coming up in Saskatoon, coming up tomorrow.

00:41:10.300 Western Canada left out of the throne speech.

00:41:12.900 Is this going to be one of the precarious lines that Mark Carney is going to have to walk here to try to tamper down the separatism sentiment that we're seeing from some in the Western part of the country as well and just try to bring some calmness to this situation?

00:41:26.600 Yeah, because that's the fault line that Trump can exploit for his 51st state nonsense.

00:41:32.400 There is sentiment in Alberta.

00:41:34.100 There is more sentiment than there was previously that it should be a separate country or it should be part of the U.S.

00:41:39.940 And if it were a separate country, obviously, unless it had support from the U.S., how would it get its products to tidewater?

00:41:47.000 I mean, there's all these, you know, it can't exist by itself.

00:41:49.380 It's landlocked.

00:41:50.300 So it's got to be friends with somebody.

00:41:52.540 And this, you know, Western separatism, the idea of having a referendum next year, is a real thing.

00:41:58.800 So I think Carney's smart to meet in Saskatoon.

00:42:01.300 I think that he's also, he's announced an office to really speed up development to allow the federal government to do projects in the national interest.

00:42:09.520 That will be of interest to the West.

00:42:11.780 I mean, depending, obviously, on what national interest is defined as.

00:42:15.400 But even Premier Legault has made positive noises about the idea of having a pipeline from the West through to Quebec, saying that most Quebecers are now in favor of this.

00:42:23.640 So Carney's getting support from the eastern part of the country, eastern premiers, for his idea.

00:42:29.540 And I think that if he can, you know, get, if he can get everyone on side, even if Daniel Smith is still an outlier, if his project makes sense, if he gets Saskatchewan on side, for example, it's going to be hard for those forces to gain more traction.

00:42:43.460 He has to stop them, because that is the weak link.

00:42:46.320 It's also going to be an issue for Pierre Polyev, interestingly, when he runs in that by-election in Alberta, whenever it happens.

00:42:52.060 The separatists are going to use that as a platform, as a way to try and corner him on the issue.

00:42:55.700 He's already said he's not in favor of separation, but it's going to be a live issue going forward in the next parliament.

00:43:01.440 Yeah, and interesting, an issue for both of the Conservative and the Liberal leader here.

00:43:05.880 Warren, just kind of thinking about it a little bit, what is a, what does a win look like for Mark Carney on this file?

00:43:11.160 You know, we're talking about separatism.

00:43:12.520 We know, you know, Danielle Smith appears to be playing with fire in some kind of ways.

00:43:16.500 What does a win look like for Mark Carney to be able to get things done and also kind of tamp some of this down?

00:43:22.540 Well, a win in politics is always just living, you know, surviving to another day.

00:43:30.220 But honestly, you know, and I say this as somebody who grew up in Calgary and, you know, moved from Quebec to escape a separatist movement.

00:43:39.920 The separatist movement in the province of Alberta is a child compared to what we've experienced in the province of Quebec.

00:43:49.200 Quebec, it's, it's not serious.

00:43:51.700 And, you know, they've got a number of problems they face, not the least of which is public opinion.

00:43:57.420 She's the most unpopular premier in Canada.

00:44:01.120 She's unpopular within her own province.

00:44:05.300 You know, majority of people outside of her partisans resolutely oppose separation.

00:44:11.960 And, and then you've got the Clarity Act and the Clarity Act, you know, passed some 30 years ago will make it exceptionally difficult for her or, you know, somebody, an Alberta separatist to, to achieve their goals.

00:44:26.860 So, like, she's just going to continue to be an outlier.

00:44:31.180 That's the path she's chosen for herself.

00:44:33.840 And I don't think that hurts Mark Carney.

00:44:36.600 I think that hurts Pierre Paulyev.

00:44:39.060 And Paulyev's going to be an MP from Alberta.

00:44:42.340 And just about every single day he's going to get up and he's going to be asked by reporters in Ottawa about the latest stupid thing that Danielle Smith has said.

00:44:50.720 And it's going to create some big problems for him, I think, on the national stage.

00:44:54.120 Carl, what I've found interesting about this whole conversation is the contrast that it feels like Mark Carney is trying to portray right now, trying to be the level-headed statesman, not getting too excited about things or making vast promises in many ways.

00:45:07.900 Would that kind of help him here is to just not get too excited, not get into this kind of political warfare about Western separatism and try to get something done to take to the Western provinces to keep them happy?

00:45:19.240 Yeah, he needs to stay calm and not panic because, you know, there's no immediate danger.

00:45:27.040 That's the reality.

00:45:28.900 Now, he has to take some of it seriously because who knows where that can lead.

00:45:33.740 Like, once that thing starts going, it could get very divisive quickly.

00:45:40.040 But it could also get very divisive quickly for Daniel Smith herself.

00:45:43.240 Because when you look at the polls, you know, as Warren alluded to, the conservative voters in Alberta, the provincial conservative voters, are split on the question of separation.

00:45:54.220 Meanwhile, on the other side, the NDP voters are 98 percent opposed.

00:45:59.480 So, if something was to happen, it could easily break up the coalition that Daniel Smith built by joining the progressive conservatives, you know, when she was leader of the Wild Rose Party back in the day.

00:46:11.880 It could split again.

00:46:13.460 And that would lead the way to a new NDP government.

00:46:16.660 It can happen quickly because separatists, you know, they usually, when they are getting serious, let's see how serious they are, but they are usually in a rush.

00:46:28.580 We see that with the current crop of Parti Québécois activists right now who want a referendum in the first mandate of a PQ government.

00:46:37.100 They're in the polls, ahead in the polls right now.

00:46:39.460 But separatism support is at, you know, 33, 32 percent in Quebec, lower than in Alberta, mind you.

00:46:45.240 But this is the dynamic that can be created in Alberta right now.

00:46:49.340 Yeah, I saw that poll too.

00:46:50.540 I really wanted to speak to those 2 percent of NDP that wanted to separate as well.

00:46:54.440 Fascinating case study.

00:46:55.460 A couple of other things in the go this week because we did see a spending plan for the government, still no budget as of yet.

00:47:01.860 But I mentioned contrast.

00:47:03.460 So we saw the conservative leader say, Pierre Polyev, say that they're going to vote against this.

00:47:08.020 They're not going to vote for the government's current spending plan, basically saying that it's more of the same.

00:47:12.660 And I was kind of thinking about this, Tasha, from a contrast.

00:47:14.860 It does appear to be a continuation from the last session of parliament where, you know, the conservatives aren't going to try to negotiate.

00:47:21.140 They're not going to try to get anything out of this.

00:47:22.340 They're just going to vote it down.

00:47:24.340 They did make some gains in the last election.

00:47:26.360 Do you think this is the proper strategy moving forward?

00:47:29.340 Well, they are the official opposition.

00:47:31.160 The official opposition is generally not there to negotiate.

00:47:34.120 It's there to oppose.

00:47:35.060 It could be there to also propose, but it's there to oppose.

00:47:38.440 And in this case, you know, they're not going to vote with the government on the first opportunity.

00:47:44.400 Their whole argument is, look, we made gains in the last election.

00:47:46.920 And we didn't form government, but that's a good thing.

00:47:50.160 I mean, that's probably a spin on the whole on the whole result.

00:47:52.660 And there is truth to that.

00:47:54.020 They did gain.

00:47:54.960 The question is, their vote's just not as efficient.

00:47:57.900 And they didn't have enough people in the seats that mattered to win government.

00:48:01.820 So they're not going to concede on this.

00:48:04.240 I think they're right in because the government should have presented a budget and did not.

00:48:08.100 And the spending they are saying is essentially the same as what was already on the table.

00:48:14.300 So they are continuing the legacy of the previous government.

00:48:16.400 And that, to me, is something this new government, the reason they're doing it is because they

00:48:20.580 don't want to have a confidence vote.

00:48:22.300 That is the exact reason that they have no budget.

00:48:25.380 And the NDP is in such disarray.

00:48:27.160 And even more disarray, we read this week, that no one wants to run for leader, you know,

00:48:31.220 maybe except for Avi Lewis.

00:48:32.700 Like, who knows if the party is going to survive this summer.

00:48:35.460 I still think they're out to get a few people on side of the Liberals.

00:48:38.460 And then they won't need the Conservatives to support anything because they'll have a

00:48:41.720 majority.

00:48:42.720 And just a quick follow-up, do you think that decision not to have a budget, because I think

00:48:46.400 you're rightfully, you know, pointing out it has put them in a political situation where

00:48:49.660 they could face a confidence vote.

00:48:51.080 Do you think, regardless, do you think that's going to haunt them this time around?

00:48:53.800 Or do you think they kind of sneak by?

00:48:56.040 I think they're going to skate by because people are tired of elections.

00:48:59.400 People are tired of electioneering.

00:49:00.580 And the summer's coming and they're not paying attention.

00:49:02.580 It was news.

00:49:03.520 And it was rightfully news.

00:49:06.260 You know, I think the big issue will be coming back in the fall because that's when they

00:49:11.380 will have, they're going to present an economic statement.

00:49:13.720 But they'll have to also, as they said, we're actually going to present a budget.

00:49:16.400 Sorry, they are going to bring a budget in finally.

00:49:18.220 So they're going to have to face the music on a confidence vote.

00:49:20.520 And so that's what I think they're gearing up for, to try and avoid that by having a majority.

00:49:26.440 And they're going to see what shakes out in Terrebonne and the challenge, the court challenge to

00:49:29.860 that riding.

00:49:30.860 And they're going to see what happens maybe with Polly Evin.

00:49:33.100 His, you know, he's going to win.

00:49:34.680 That's not a question.

00:49:36.020 But see how that, you know, how strong he is in that campaign.

00:49:39.100 Is he wounded?

00:49:39.720 Like Warren said, is the separatist issue going to raise itself constantly and detract from

00:49:43.740 his message?

00:49:44.940 A lot of dynamics will shake out before the fall.

00:49:46.920 I think that's really where the test will be for the government.

00:49:49.700 Yeah, it just seems like a matter of time in terms of Pierre Polly, of just the timing

00:49:52.560 there.

00:49:52.820 I'm sure they're hoping to have him back by time we go back for the fall session as

00:49:56.460 well.

00:49:57.020 Warren, I guess on both of those things, just when we talk about the liberals here, do

00:50:00.300 you think it's going to come back to haunt them that they haven't put a budget forward?

00:50:03.800 Or is this, you know, politically smart to kind of avoid a confrontation right away on a major

00:50:08.620 issue like a confidence motion?

00:50:10.940 No, I mean, we need a budget.

00:50:14.740 And, you know, I think even Carney recognizes that it's gone too long.

00:50:20.240 That's why he overruled Champagne when Champagne kind of dismissed the notion of having a budget

00:50:26.540 in the fall.

00:50:27.800 Carney had to hustle out when he was in Rome for the Pope's funeral to say, no, sorry,

00:50:34.540 actually, we are going to have a budget in the fall.

00:50:36.680 So, you know, we need to know what the state of the nation's finances are.

00:50:41.580 It's important for planning at the federal level.

00:50:44.460 It's important for planning at the provincial level.

00:50:46.520 And we are in an economic crisis, an existential one vis-a-vis the United States.

00:50:52.500 So we need to know what's going on because we're getting mixed signals, right?

00:50:56.680 You know, on Friday, it was reported that the economy was doing somewhat better than we

00:51:02.680 expected.

00:51:03.160 And then you have other indicators saying the exact opposite.

00:51:07.780 So there is some confusion and we need some clarity.

00:51:11.080 Does the government get punished for not having a budget?

00:51:16.680 I don't know if a lot of people pay as much attention to budget day as, you know, us, weirdos

00:51:23.260 like us who are obsessed by it.

00:51:25.760 But it certainly is indicative of a lack of direction for the government of Canada, you

00:51:31.960 know, and it is the most significant policy statement a federal government can make.

00:51:37.900 And we need to know what the priorities are for this new government, this new prime minister.

00:51:43.760 And we really don't have that at this time.

00:51:47.140 He seems to be all over the map quite often.

00:51:50.220 And, you know, we need some clarity.

00:51:53.440 I want to come back to the Depaulio issue in a moment.

00:51:55.440 But, Carl, just on the budget and the lack of a budget, do you think that in the long term

00:51:59.460 here, even in the next few months, do you think that's going to hurt the liberals?

00:52:01.820 I don't think so politically.

00:52:05.260 I don't think Canadians care as long as they get the tax cut they've been promised.

00:52:09.540 And within these motions to implement it goes through, Canadians will give it a pass.

00:52:14.680 But the reality is that we are moving forward with Justin Trudeau's budgetary policies.

00:52:19.220 Those are the ones that are in place.

00:52:20.620 And so for the people who want to change, they may not get the change they thought they were

00:52:26.920 going to get with Mark Carney.

00:52:28.760 That said, you know, Warren is absolutely right that it creates an impression that this

00:52:34.660 is a government that's improvising.

00:52:36.500 And it also creates a situation where, you know, you set the conditions for a parliamentary

00:52:41.120 game of chicken.

00:52:41.840 And I know that the NEP is in bad shape and that nobody wants an election.

00:52:46.400 But, you know, an accident happens fast.

00:52:48.260 It happened to Joe Clark.

00:52:49.520 It was in a kind of similar situation with a social credit party that was kind of a rump

00:52:55.280 with six or five MPs.

00:52:58.340 And they ended up not voting with Joe Clark on his budget.

00:53:02.140 And the government fell.

00:53:03.580 And, you know, the Joe Clark government disappeared.

00:53:06.480 It was replaced by another liberal majority.

00:53:08.560 And the social credit MPs who could not get any worse for the social credit, well, they

00:53:13.100 got eliminated and never recovered, never came back in the House of Commons.

00:53:17.440 So it could happen to the NEP as well.

00:53:19.380 People are aware of these scenarios, but it can happen if you decide that you're going

00:53:23.080 to play the game of chicken.

00:53:24.720 And that's what we're seeing right now.

00:53:27.060 Yeah, you even look at the last six months, how things have changed.

00:53:29.460 Who knows what the next six months bring in terms of how things and events kind of play

00:53:33.820 out here.

00:53:34.620 I just lastly wanted to touch in before we go here.

00:53:36.900 Carl, I'll start with you on this one.

00:53:38.120 I mentioned kind of Pierre Polyev, and they are opposing the spending plan here.

00:53:43.360 Not a huge surprise, but in some senses, we've heard some rumblings about Polyev and possibly

00:53:48.640 his leadership being in question here.

00:53:51.540 They will get a chance.

00:53:52.420 The Conservatives will get a chance to review that leadership.

00:53:54.600 But for all intents and purposes, do you think he is in trouble with the Conservatives?

00:53:58.500 He may not be as safe as he thinks he is.

00:54:03.700 And, you know, there are some people who know and remember what happened to Andrew Scheer and

00:54:09.080 Aaron O'Toole, so they acted fast to secure his leadership.

00:54:13.260 But things can shift quickly in politics.

00:54:16.020 And so I think, for now, he is okay.

00:54:21.500 But there's a reason why they're moving forward, that they're trying to move forward that convention

00:54:26.060 to get that vote through as fast as possible.

00:54:29.320 Because, you know, when things linger, when things don't change, if the polls don't change,

00:54:35.080 suddenly people might be looking for another solution than Pierre Polyev.

00:54:38.040 But for now, I think he's okay.

00:54:40.440 Well, and it gives leadership hopefuls less time to kind of garner any kind of steam or

00:54:43.960 momentum moving forward, too.

00:54:45.420 But, Warren, you know, you've seen the pieces, you've seen the articles, you've seen the sources

00:54:49.040 and things like that.

00:54:50.080 I kind of wonder, is this just more noise?

00:54:51.940 Or do you think there is, you know, a legitimate threat to Pierre Polyev's leadership at this

00:54:55.100 point?

00:54:56.040 Well, I didn't think there was a threat to Scheer or O'Toole, right?

00:54:59.500 I didn't think that they adhered to the one-and-done rule, but they do.

00:55:03.340 They got rid of both those guys.

00:55:04.880 They didn't do it immediately.

00:55:05.960 They took a little bit of time in both cases, and could history be repeating itself here?

00:55:13.140 I mean, the grievance that the conservatives, and Tasha Wood is the best one to ask about

00:55:18.080 this, but to me, if I'm a card-carrying conservative who's been working my keister off for Pierre

00:55:24.000 Polyev for the past, you know, nearly three years, what I've just seen is them take a 30-point

00:55:30.420 lead and blow it.

00:55:31.340 What I've seen is their leader lose his own seat decisively, and what I've seen is a party

00:55:38.120 that seems to be adrift.

00:55:40.020 So I'm not very happy, and now the party's given me an opportunity to express that in

00:55:45.320 March at a leadership review.

00:55:47.900 So yeah, I, you know, could what happened to O'Toole and Scheer happen to him?

00:55:52.600 For sure.

00:55:53.100 I didn't see that coming.

00:55:54.200 I can't read the minds of conservative partisans, but I can't imagine that they're very happy

00:55:59.620 about the outcome of the election.

00:56:01.920 Yeah, and some of the machinations, I think, inside of that election campaign as well left

00:56:06.780 some candidates pretty upset about it as well.

00:56:08.700 But Tasha, final word for you.

00:56:10.520 You know, we hear all the noise.

00:56:11.840 Do you think there's a legitimate threat to Pierre Polyev's leadership over the course

00:56:14.940 of the next, let's say, six, seven months?

00:56:17.920 I do.

00:56:18.320 I think that you're hearing some rumblings in Ontario around that, and whether they become

00:56:25.080 concrete or not, there are people thinking about that.

00:56:28.860 There's also the fact that the party right now is, I'll say, it's a new party.

00:56:35.140 It's a different party than it was, which makes it challenging for people who are thinking

00:56:39.600 about, you know, dethroning Polyev, because what would you replace him with?

00:56:44.820 Who would you replace him with?

00:56:45.820 And the coalition he has built is really, it's not the PC coalition of yore, that is

00:56:52.680 for sure.

00:56:53.640 A lot of those people went to the Liberals this time around.

00:56:57.100 But he also, he moved people over from the NDP, he moved the sort of never voters, people

00:57:01.660 who were anti-establishment, you know, the holdover from the convoy, people who were, you

00:57:06.600 know, angry at Trudeau that some of those people still stuck around, even though Trudeau

00:57:10.460 wasn't there.

00:57:11.780 That coalition is kind of an unwieldy beast.

00:57:15.440 He's built it.

00:57:16.220 I'm not sure who could continue because it could crack apart with someone who appeals

00:57:23.340 to different sentiments.

00:57:25.700 Carney is really changing the climate in terms of what's, you know, what's seen as politically

00:57:30.900 acceptable, right?

00:57:33.120 The sort of anger politics is dissolving.

00:57:36.360 At least it has for now.

00:57:37.920 In fall, it might come back.

00:57:39.040 But I think the appetite for that has waned.

00:57:41.640 But it's still, some people still have it.

00:57:43.400 And those are the people who are working really hard for Polyev all this time and are frustrated.

00:57:46.940 And they're not just necessarily, they're not so angry at him.

00:57:48.980 They're angry at the people who didn't buy in.

00:57:52.060 And they're still angry at those people.

00:57:53.740 So, you know, who else would they follow?

00:57:56.820 This is what the party has to ask itself, too, is that this group of people, where would

00:58:01.260 they go?

00:58:02.480 Because it is a much more populist, much more working class party than it was before.

00:58:07.600 So you lose those people with a different leader.

00:58:09.960 It's complicated.

00:58:10.960 But I don't think, I mean, people are definitely talking about it.

00:58:13.080 People are definitely thinking about it.

00:58:15.040 And I think he has to figure out, you know, what he's going to do and how he's going to

00:58:21.080 stay in power because he can't ignore the fact that this is a real threat.

00:58:24.800 And if certain people like Jenny Byrne, for example, stick around, I think it's going to

00:58:28.640 be even harder for him because that is some of the lightning rods around nominations and

00:58:32.300 other things that internally people in the party were very angry about.

00:58:35.240 So we'll be watching closely.

00:58:37.080 I know you will, too, Tasha, Carl Belanger, Warren Kinsella, and Tasha Carradine.

00:58:41.120 Thank you so much for your time this morning.

00:58:42.520 I really appreciate it.

00:58:43.780 Thank you.

00:58:44.520 Have a great weekend.

00:58:45.300 Bye.

00:58:45.540 You as well.

00:58:46.180 That is our all-star CFRA Live Sunday political panel.

00:58:48.720 Carl Belanger, the president at Traction Strategies.

00:58:50.780 Warren Kinsella, a strategist and post-media columnist.

00:58:52.900 You can read his latest in The Toronto Sun.

00:58:55.020 And Tasha Carradine, an author, political columnist for The National Post, and a writer for

00:58:58.340 GZERO Media.

00:58:59.240 I can't believe I let something so petty change the way I

00:59:05.240 I can't believe I let them get to me and put knots inside my back.

00:59:12.080 And I would walk around with my head down like I was the one who was doing something.

00:59:19.360 And I would walk around with my head down like I was the one who was doing something wrong.

00:59:45.200 But it's all coming down.

00:59:52.040 It's coming undone.

00:59:56.040 I'm choking on all of these words.

00:59:59.620 The songs I left unsung.

01:00:02.040 So I'll take a deep breath of fresh air and exhale the fire from my lungs.

01:00:07.880 When I take my next breath, I will be renewed.

01:00:12.040 When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

01:00:19.880 If you find yourself in the air, you can begin again.

01:00:24.020 I'll be right back.

01:00:43.720 We'll be right back.

01:01:13.720 We'll be right back.

01:01:43.720 I am a fucking juggardot.

01:01:52.720 We'll be right back.

01:02:22.720 We'll be right back.

01:02:52.720 And shared interests to bring transformational benefits to both sovereign nations.

01:02:59.000 Warren, you've been involved in throne speeches before.

01:03:02.000 This, to me, sounds like these lovely words.

01:03:04.840 I don't know that they mean anything.

01:03:06.980 What do you think?

01:03:07.480 Well, it's pretty cool.

01:03:11.520 Let's face it.

01:03:12.580 Getting the king to read your throne speech, it's a lot better than the speaker of the House of Commons.

01:03:17.440 Yeah.

01:03:18.000 So, you know, the spectacle of it is pretty neat.

01:03:22.100 But I think that, you know, I think that the speech so far, he's reading it as we speak right now.

01:03:30.340 It reflects closely the liberal election platform.

01:03:35.220 Yeah.

01:03:35.300 The divergence is the point that you just made.

01:03:39.940 You know, at the end of March, Mark Carney appeared very solemnly before a battery of microphones and said, our relationship with the United States is over.

01:03:47.620 But what you've just read to us suggests that maybe not so fast.

01:03:53.780 Maybe that's not the case.

01:03:55.240 Yeah.

01:03:55.340 So I'm unclear, you know, where the government is at on our relationship with the United States of America.

01:04:02.260 But the rest of the speech, so far at least, reflects, you know, what people voted for at the end of April.

01:04:08.640 And look, Max, pomp, circumstance, pageantry, they do matter.

01:04:12.460 Like these are, there's a reason there are 21 gun salutes.

01:04:14.980 There's a reason there are military flyovers.

01:04:16.820 There's a reason we have parades.

01:04:18.160 There's a reason that, you know, the buildings, the national buildings that we have are imbued with history and value.

01:04:22.740 Those things matter to have a moment like this when the king, our head of state, comes to Canada as a show of sort of what makes Canada different from, say, our neighbor to the south.

01:04:35.460 There's real value in that.

01:04:37.120 I subscribe to that.

01:04:39.360 I wholeheartedly am glad he's here doing this.

01:04:42.260 Yeah, there's value in reminding Canadians of, you know, frankly, the beauty of our institutions and the pageantry.

01:04:52.840 And, you know, nobody is a bigger fan of this sort of pomp and circumstance than Donald Trump.

01:04:59.780 He clearly desperately wishes for more of it in his own country.

01:05:02.860 You know, he's talked about having military parades and clearly thinks of himself as a monarch, if not being, you know, if even though that that is sort of not how the system works down there.

01:05:13.320 And so this is this is clearly, you know, a message to him that that he can't have what we have.

01:05:18.340 Yeah.

01:05:18.860 I, you know, I don't have a lot of time for the double talk.

01:05:22.580 You know, the idea that the relationship is based in mutual respect.

01:05:25.940 Yeah.

01:05:26.140 No, it isn't.

01:05:26.800 There's no mutual respect.

01:05:27.920 And, you know, I don't think that there have been folks saying that that Carney is kind of walking back his previous statements.

01:05:35.820 But he said that the relationship we used to have with the United States is over.

01:05:40.760 And that remains true.

01:05:41.720 That relationship is never coming back.

01:05:44.040 We are now in the space of defining what the new relationship is going to look like.

01:05:47.760 How close will we be on security?

01:05:50.100 How close will we be on economic ties?

01:05:52.380 And I think there's a lot of balls that are still up in the air there.

01:05:54.580 I, yeah, I listen, I take I agree with almost everything you said there, Max.

01:05:59.140 Look, the relationship that Canada had with the United States under Pierre Trudeau was different than the relationship under Brian Mulroney and different than every successive prime minister after that.

01:06:10.120 It wasn't over.

01:06:11.240 It was just a change in personality led to a difference in the relationship.

01:06:15.880 I, the, the, the dramatics of it's over and we've got to rebuild something new to me is short sighted.

01:06:22.100 It's, it doesn't, it doesn't ring true in terms of the history that I know.

01:06:25.680 But it, I do take your point.

01:06:28.880 And now, Chris, I did note that the King mentioned the word catalyze, which confirms that Mark Carney had a hand in writing this.

01:06:36.880 But he also talked about this being the most ambitious change in the Canadian economy since World War II.

01:06:43.780 What do you make of that?

01:06:44.520 I mean, so far, Ben, I think the, the actions that we've seen from the, the federal government match that.

01:06:52.940 I mean, it's going to take time, but we've, we've never seen, for example, the breakdown in trade barriers that we've seen within the provinces and within the country ever, certainly in my lifetime.

01:07:02.860 I think the, the speed in which, you know, the, the deadline they set for, for Canada today, we're, we're seeing the provinces smash down the provincial barriers.

01:07:11.460 And I think that's a very good thing for our economy.

01:07:14.500 It's, it's been so silly for so long, the way our, our federation has acted from an economic standpoint.

01:07:19.880 And so the idea of them moving quickly, catalyzed or not, is I think very good for the country itself.

01:07:25.840 Yeah. And look, as I've said before, the election's over my, I put my sword down.

01:07:29.840 I'm trying to, I want to be as productive as possible.

01:07:31.480 I'm not looking to score any cheap shots.

01:07:33.720 I'm, I will, I will take issue on policy.

01:07:36.520 I will take issue if I think somebody does one thing and says one thing and does another.

01:07:41.580 That being said, Max, do you remember when they announced a fentanyl czar and why haven't we heard word one from this person in three and a half months?

01:07:50.520 I vaguely remember that.

01:07:54.060 But I mean, the reason why we haven't heard word one is because it was entirely designed to placate Donald Trump's irrational and factually baseless, you know, belief that the fentanyl was coming from Canada.

01:08:06.600 It was just a, a, a sop to, to his beliefs.

01:08:10.840 And, and, and I, you know, I think that's probably why we haven't heard anything because there's, there's no there, there.

01:08:15.500 Yeah. But Chris, last week.

01:08:18.500 The fentanyl's not coming from Canada, right?

01:08:19.720 But, but Chris, last week you had Cash Patel of the FBI doubling down saying that they're all, the, the, the, the, the Mexican cartels and the Chinese triads are all in cahoots up here in Canada, making more fentanyl than the world can handle.

01:08:35.740 Well, I, I actually do think there's a lot of truth to that, Ben.

01:08:38.660 I think, you know, I agree when, when I saw the topic about the fentanyl czar, you could have paid me a thousand dollars if I could guess what the name of our fentanyl czar was.

01:08:45.920 I couldn't, I couldn't get it.

01:08:46.920 You know, no clue, absolutely no clue.

01:08:49.400 But we have a real problem when it comes to fentanyl in this country, we have for probably the better part of a decade now.

01:08:55.800 And so, unfortunately, as much as we joke about this role, I'd love to see it actually, you know, mean something because we have a real problem.

01:09:03.480 And we do have huge fentanyl labs here in this country, especially out on the West Coast, that we need to do a much better job, you know, breaking down, shutting down and getting this stuff off our streets.

01:09:16.540 Because, you know, we do a lot of work in, in the, the addiction space.

01:09:20.500 This drug is like nothing we've ever seen before on, on our streets.

01:09:25.100 It's, it's so toxic and so deadly.

01:09:27.240 And so I, I think we need to be taking it far, far more seriously.

01:09:30.560 And Warren, if, if Max is right, and this is all a fiction created in the mind of, of, of, of the president of the United States, then wouldn't it serve us to have, I mean, if it's a performative position, wouldn't it serve us to have the performer perform and hear from him every now and then?

01:09:51.500 So that the Americans would at least, uh, on, uh, on the surface, see that we're doing something.

01:09:58.940 Uh, no, I don't think it would because nothing satisfies this guy.

01:10:04.160 I mean, the facts are, the facts have been known for months in fiscal, 2024, 43 pounds of fentanyl went from Canada into the United States where we're seized by customs and border people in the same period.

01:10:20.180 21,000 pounds of it came from Mexico and we're being lumped in with the Americans.

01:10:27.020 No, Warren, Warren, I take, I take your point.

01:10:29.520 I believe your numbers.

01:10:31.220 What I'm suggesting is if the Americans are, are, are, are putting on airs that we are a problem and we have named a fentanyl czar, then wouldn't it help us to be publicly looking like we're doing something with the czar that we appointed?

01:10:46.460 Yeah, no, I understand the question, but my answer is the same.

01:10:51.080 It's not going to change their position when they're making crap up, they're making things up.

01:10:57.380 So if we get into that space where we go along with their fiction, you know, all of us have done it with our kids, you know, at a certain point, you bump your leg on the furniture of reality.

01:11:09.240 And so, no, I don't think we should say, yes, we are a big problem with fentanyl just to make Donald Trump feel better because he'll find something new to come after us at.

01:11:19.420 All right.

01:11:19.560 And that has been the case.

01:11:21.140 The reason why he did this is to get himself out of the terms of the free trade agreement that we've got with the United States.

01:11:26.340 All right.

01:11:26.580 Well, we're going to take a quick break.

01:11:27.660 But when we come back, Max Fawcett, you're up next because I want to get your take on Alberta's position on what they're calling age appropriate books in Alberta public school libraries.

01:11:37.120 Don't go anywhere.

01:11:37.600 This is the Ben Mulroney Show.

01:11:39.720 The Ben Mulroney Show marches on with our This Week in Politics midweek panel with Chris Chapin, Max Fawcett and Warren Kinsella.

01:11:46.820 Max, I'm coming to you first because Alberta is laying the groundwork for a survey, rather the government is, for a survey on what is age appropriate content for kids K through 12 to access in school libraries.

01:12:00.280 This after a number of parents have complained that they found what they found to be inappropriate books available for their school aged kids.

01:12:09.940 The other side of the equation is suggesting that this is a slippery slope that could lead to book banning.

01:12:17.900 And so who's inappropriate here?

01:12:19.380 Is it the schools for allowing these books in the first place or is the government for coming in and being an arbiter for what is allowed and what's not?

01:12:26.780 I think it offers a very revealing window into Daniel Smith's approach to governing.

01:12:34.060 She's very good at creating distractions that appeal to a small section of her base, very bad at governing in the best interest of all Albertans.

01:12:41.320 And so, you know, she said that this is not about book banning.

01:12:44.520 This is about protecting children.

01:12:46.480 Weird that she isn't as concerned about protecting children from the measles, which are just going crazy here right now.

01:12:51.900 Yeah, but hold on, Max, two things can be true at once.

01:12:54.760 You can be right on the measles thing, but that doesn't address the issue of the books.

01:13:00.600 And look, you say a small group of people.

01:13:03.260 I mean, parents represent a big chunk of the population.

01:13:06.680 And if parents feel that, I mean, listen, my two cents, Max, when I was a kid, this was not an issue.

01:13:13.100 Like what was appropriate and inappropriate, that wasn't even a debate as to what we found in school libraries.

01:13:17.600 For some reason, it is today.

01:13:20.180 For sure.

01:13:21.280 I mean, I think that was a debate back then.

01:13:23.620 It just maybe wasn't aired as publicly.

01:13:25.740 But it's just it's a very odd sort of rearguard battle.

01:13:29.300 You know, if you're worried about protecting kids from information that you don't think is safe or you don't think is appropriate,

01:13:33.960 can I introduce you to something called the Internet?

01:13:37.260 Because I think that's a much bigger threat than than books at your local school library.

01:13:42.960 You know, a big part of the issue is that this government in Alberta has laid off a lot of the librarians that used to curate this stuff,

01:13:48.900 used to manage the books that kids had access to and made sure that it didn't get into their hands.

01:13:55.200 You know, are there a couple of books that are probably a little over the line for some kids?

01:13:58.820 Sure.

01:13:59.000 Should the government be getting into to, you know, cracking down on their access to information and essentially sort of abrogating free speech?

01:14:08.260 It feels like a slippery slope to me.

01:14:10.720 And again, the Internet is out there.

01:14:12.080 That is the big concern.

01:14:13.220 If you're worried about kids learning about LGBTQ issues or or anything else.

01:14:18.060 Yeah.

01:14:18.600 Chris Chapin, I'm assuming there's a counterpoint coming my way.

01:14:22.740 Yeah, absolutely.

01:14:24.080 I mean, at the end of the day, I see no harm whatsoever when it comes to consulting parents.

01:14:28.300 I think if anything, we should be consulting parents and the education of their children far, far more often than the opposite.

01:14:34.980 But but to Max's point about the Internet, I get where you're coming from.

01:14:38.100 But we're talking about kids in like K to nine here.

01:14:41.140 And I think the bigger concern is, is those kids, you know, kindergarten, grade one, grade two.

01:14:45.680 Like if you're a parent, you're letting your kids scroll the Internet by themselves when they're, you know, six or seven years old.

01:14:51.500 And that's a choice you make.

01:14:52.560 But I think when you when you send your child off to school, there's a certain understanding and acceptance that what's being presented to them while they're at school is appropriate for them to pick a book off the bookshelf in a library and read.

01:15:05.380 And I think the concern the Alberta government has right now is that that those books simply aren't perhaps age appropriate for for children to pick off the pick off the shelves.

01:15:15.360 And so the idea of consulting parents, I think it's something we should do far, far more often.

01:15:19.400 I think there's probably, you know, the idea of a school board trustees, probably the least appreciated elected office in the entire country, that most parents should take a far, far more serious role in determining who who they elect as their school board trustees.

01:15:31.100 But I think in this case, you know, what's the harm about sending out a survey to parents, asking them what they think their kids should be reading?

01:15:37.760 And Warren, I could make an argument that this is the most apolitical thing that that that the government could do.

01:15:42.640 I could argue they're saying, listen, if you want to teach what you can teach, whatever you want to your kids at home.

01:15:48.060 But at school, we have we have guardrails in place to make sure that what we're teaching them sort of falls in line with the curriculum.

01:15:54.960 What do you think about that?

01:15:57.800 I remember the days when conservatives said, you know, I'm against government overreach.

01:16:04.160 And here you've got a government doing overreach.

01:16:06.780 I remember the days when conservatives would say that they believe in the free expression of ideas and the marketplace of ideas.

01:16:14.320 And here she is messing in the marketplace.

01:16:18.000 This is always every dictator first.

01:16:21.460 I'm not calling her a dictator.

01:16:23.100 I'm pointing at the history.

01:16:24.800 I'm pointing at the I pointing out the first thing every dictator does is burn books and ban books.

01:16:34.300 That's what they always do.

01:16:35.880 So, you know, I've written 10 books.

01:16:39.100 I've written an 11th that's coming out shortly.

01:16:42.160 I would love for Daniel Smith to ban my book because I know what I'll shoot to number one.

01:16:47.360 You're growing up in Calgary.

01:16:48.640 I would go and find that book.

01:16:50.980 My dad, when he was in high school in Montreal, the books that the Jesuits said they couldn't read.

01:16:56.500 Those are the books they all read.

01:16:57.820 So this is stupid.

01:16:59.320 It's idiotic.

01:17:00.320 It's performative.

01:17:01.320 And it's not going to work.

01:17:02.460 It's going to blow up in her face like so many other things that she's done.

01:17:05.300 OK, well, in our last few minutes, I actually want to have a little bit of fun because there are two videos going viral right now.

01:17:13.920 And to me, they both feel like Rorschach tests where you can imbue them with whatever your perspective is.

01:17:19.380 And the first is Macron's wife shoving him in the face before they get off the plane in Vietnam.

01:17:25.620 And the other is Mark Carney on his first day in the House of Commons, admittedly not knowing what the rules are, more importantly, where the cameras are, shooing away Melanie Jolie.

01:17:35.340 Which viral moment, and Warren, we'll start with you, are people reading more or too much into?

01:17:41.020 Well, I guess we don't know.

01:17:46.240 The Jolie thing, Ben, as you know, I've never been a big fan.

01:17:49.680 I think she's possibly the worst minister we've had in the history of Confederation.

01:17:53.920 However, I heard from a number of women readers this morning saying every woman in Canada understands what just happened.

01:18:03.580 And even if they voted for Mark Carney, they don't like it.

01:18:07.340 It was, whatever you think about Melanie Jolie, it was condescending and to many women, and we're all guys here, but to many women, that was profoundly sexist.

01:18:16.660 So I think that that one is going to have resonance for quite some time.

01:18:20.620 The Macron thing, it's just kind of weird.

01:18:23.000 I just, I was impressed about his ability to change and react for the cameras as quickly as he did.

01:18:27.860 But the Jolie thing, I don't know.

01:18:29.740 I don't know if I find that one funny.

01:18:31.160 No, Chris Chapin, not funny, but I think, Warren, I think you pointed out on social media, like there will come a day where that doesn't roll off his back the way it is today.

01:18:38.920 However, today it will roll off his back.

01:18:40.840 Chris, what do you think?

01:18:42.320 I just think that the Jolie clip's just so funny that, I mean, who hasn't been just shooed off like that in the middle of somebody focusing?

01:18:49.460 And it just happens to be the prime minister's first day in the House of Commons.

01:18:53.880 I found very, very funny.

01:18:55.160 Yeah, it was.

01:18:56.540 Listen, and my producer said he saw that as somebody who was deeply intent on working and focusing and somebody was distracting him.

01:19:04.140 But I said, for better or for worse, it happened on the backdrop of what Warren Kinsella just brought up, which was sort of the appearance of not being very comfortable with strong women in his presence on the campaign trail.

01:19:17.980 I said that may be true.

01:19:19.300 It may be not.

01:19:19.960 But it is a thing.

01:19:21.580 And so that, to me, was something that stuck in my mind.

01:19:24.940 Max, what do you think?

01:19:27.280 Yeah, I think both of them are, like you said, Rorschach tests.

01:19:31.100 If you want to see something, it's there.

01:19:32.540 If you don't, it's not.

01:19:34.420 But, you know, Carney has to be wary.

01:19:38.180 And this is like, you know, thing number 200 on his list of priorities.

01:19:41.360 But he has to be wary of the fact that he is getting a reputation in some circles for being a bit of a bro.

01:19:47.720 You know, there are concerns that, you know, the PMO is disproportionately filled with men.

01:19:53.340 And, you know, I don't buy that.

01:19:55.220 I think that that is just, you know, something that people want to make out.

01:19:59.020 But if he keeps getting caught in these sorts of moments where he appears to be sort of, you know, brushing women away or being surrounded by men, then that will take hold.

01:20:08.460 And, you know, I think he's fine for now.

01:20:10.240 But as the months go on, his coat of armor is going to get a little thinner.

01:20:15.260 And these darts are going to start to stick in there a little more.

01:20:17.480 Well, it's sort of, and listen, it happened to Justin Trudeau.

01:20:20.200 That's not to say it will happen to Mark Carney.

01:20:22.240 But, you know, with enough time and enough opportunity, all of a sudden, like a bell gets rung.

01:20:29.200 And then you can't unring it.

01:20:30.460 You can't unsee that thing.

01:20:31.920 And all of a sudden, what you used to view in one way, you view in a completely different light.

01:20:36.220 And that could happen to a Mark Carney.

01:20:38.540 I'm not saying it will.

01:20:39.480 And I'm not saying I hope it does.

01:20:40.840 But it could happen.

01:20:42.260 Anyway, to all three of you, I want to thank you very much for joining me today.

01:20:45.560 It's been a great panel.

01:20:46.540 I hope the four of us can do it again real soon.

01:20:48.960 I appreciate you.

01:20:49.780 And have a great week.

01:20:51.080 Thanks, Ben.

01:20:51.760 Sounds good.

01:20:54.480 Two, three, four.

01:21:16.540 One, two, three, four.

01:21:29.040 In the part where Jesus fasted

01:21:33.900 You ring up my line

01:21:45.160 I'm expanding my mind

01:21:49.640 I see 2005

01:21:53.560 When we fell

01:21:56.380 Who survived

01:21:59.640 You can get me slack-jawed

01:22:12.720 If we're sipping through the last straw

01:22:16.220 Barely moving to the last waltz

01:22:21.040 To a symphony of my faults

01:22:25.560 Wrapped around me like a smoke meek

01:22:30.820 Had me set up like a coke steam

01:22:34.520 I'm still doing five to seven

01:22:38.820 Wishing liars got to heaven

01:22:43.000 You ring up my line

01:22:55.220 I'm expanding my mind

01:22:59.640 I see 2005

01:23:04.900 I can't tell

01:23:06.900 Who's alive?

01:23:12.160 I'm extremely

01:23:22.300 I'm immersed in the way

01:23:23.220 I'mособ

01:23:24.460 www.network.org

01:23:27.000 Thank you.

01:23:57.000 Thank you.

01:24:27.000 Thank you.

01:24:57.000 Thank you.

kinsellacast - June 01, 2025

KINSELLACAST 364： Ottawa's secret BFFs with Lilley, Kheiriddin, Mraz, Belanger, Mulroney plus guitar songs I like

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