kinsellacast - KINSELLACAST 365： Carney a closet conservative？ With Lilley, Mraz, Belanger, Kheiriddin, Mulroney - plus Brit-ish bands with guitars and accents

00:00:00.000 It's the KinsellaCast, starring Warren Kinsella.

00:00:15.080 Hey, it's Warren. Welcome to the KinsellaCast. Great show for you this week on a sunny, beautiful June weekend.

00:00:23.360 I've got Brian Lilly, John Mraz, Tasha Kerrigan, Carl Belagi, the regulars, but also Ben Moroni and I and some other people.

00:00:30.680 Then we've got some British bands. I was feeling kind of British this week.

00:00:37.540 Well, actually, I wasn't at all. I was just interested in listening to British bands.

00:00:41.540 So Palma Violets was a big, big, big deal in Britain about 10 years ago.

00:00:45.960 They played at Glasto and all the rest of it.

00:00:48.120 And they played a song that Pierre and I wrote when we were 16 years old, The Invasion of the Tribbles.

00:00:54.260 They would close every set with this song.

00:00:56.800 So this is a very rare recording of them recording our song, The Invasion of the Tribbles, created and put out by the Hot Nasties in 1980.

00:01:09.480 And the Palma Violets, 40 years later, doing their own version of it.

00:01:12.740 And then their big hit, Best of Friends, were in the Palma Violets.

00:01:16.300 Then I've got a couple bands.

00:01:19.120 I've got Baby Strange, who have a very Palma Violets sound.

00:01:23.640 And also The Dunts, with a D.

00:01:26.680 The Dunts.

00:01:27.420 Long ago, long, long time ago, as they say in Star Wars, in the prehistoric times, before the internet, I was a reporter at a fine post-media paper, the Calgary Herald.

00:01:47.800 And I'd work there on weekends, during law school, keep myself and craft dinner.

00:01:53.280 And one of my jobs was listening to the police scanner.

00:01:56.620 Whenever there was a big car crash on some local roadway, I'd head out, occasionally with a photographer in tow.

00:02:03.560 And when merited, I'd write a few paragraphs about the crash, and the photographer would take some pictures.

00:02:08.100 And then later on, people would inevitably call in and say, we are ghouls and grave robbers, and that they were sick of our negativity, and they were canceling their subscription.

00:02:19.560 Although they never did.

00:02:21.520 They would later cancel their subscriptions for another reason, but not for that one.

00:02:26.140 But here's the thing I'd observe when I was out at the scene of every car crash.

00:02:29.940 Everyone, and I mean everyone, would slow down to take a look.

00:02:34.060 And sometimes grandma would even totter out of her car and snap a photo on her Kodak Instamatic.

00:02:41.520 And that's the thing about negative stuff.

00:02:43.520 People say they don't like it, but they're lying.

00:02:46.800 They pay attention to it.

00:02:48.040 They remember it.

00:02:48.860 They're motivated by it.

00:02:50.260 Negative stuff sells.

00:02:51.980 Every politico and reporter knows that.

00:02:54.740 If it bleeds, it leads, as they say.

00:02:57.940 And watching the bromance of Donald Trump and Elon Musk implode on social media this week,

00:03:03.340 I was reminded of this collective fondness for nastiness.

00:03:06.960 The entire world, pretty much, was glued to their devices, watching for the next installment in the Donald and Elon show.

00:03:13.920 For many of us, it was better than the playoffs.

00:03:17.200 Trump threatened to cancel Musk's government contracts.

00:03:20.440 Musk agreed that Trump should be impeached.

00:03:22.780 Trump suggested that Musk was mentally ill.

00:03:25.180 Musk said that Trump was in the Epstein files, and so on and so on.

00:03:28.340 But like Trump's White House staffers were frantically convening meetings to figure out ways to get the boys to step away from the downward cycle of mutually assured social media destruction,

00:03:39.140 They knew that billions of people, leaders of nations included, ominously, were observing the spectacle.

00:03:46.760 It was bad for business, they told the media, anonymously.

00:03:50.060 It needed to stop.

00:03:52.100 Predictably, Republican politicians became highly adverse to microphones.

00:03:57.340 My favorite response came from Senator John Kennedy.

00:04:00.660 Believe me, no fucking relation.

00:04:02.160 We don't know who was the dog and who was the fire hydrant in this metaphor, but I thought it was a good one.

00:04:16.400 And the commentary, of course, was tut-tutting about it all.

00:04:19.540 Pathetic, said the Guardian.

00:04:21.440 A bro-ligarchy blow-up of the highest order, said the New York Times.

00:04:26.220 And then, of course, from Kanye West, the Hitler fan.

00:04:28.500 And, bros, please, no, we both love you so much.

00:04:31.820 Actually, we don't.

00:04:33.320 Anyway, I don't think it hurts either guy, all of this mess, because it's on brand for both guys.

00:04:39.640 As someone who has campaigned, full disclosure, against Donald Trump three times,

00:04:44.380 I will acknowledge he has one skill about which he is without equal.

00:04:48.760 He is a social media genius.

00:04:50.460 There's nobody in politics better at getting attention online than him.

00:04:55.580 He does that by being negative.

00:04:57.360 Elon Musk, meanwhile, has the same genetic structure.

00:05:03.440 He's really, really good at being mean.

00:05:07.220 I think, in fact, that's the main reason he bought Twitter, which he's now called X.

00:05:12.120 It gave him a personal platform to be shitty to people 24-7.

00:05:17.220 On X, Musk has 220 million followers.

00:05:22.420 Trump's got 106 million, and on his own platform, Truth Social, which is neither truth nor social,

00:05:29.280 Trump has 10 million.

00:05:30.500 What does that tell you?

00:05:31.580 It tells you that being negative cells, being nasty works.

00:05:34.740 The experts call this online disinhibition, which is defined as saying things online that you'd never say in real life.

00:05:42.100 But more social media use, as everybody knows, leads to more negativity, and more negativity results in more social media use.

00:05:51.360 It's a circular addiction, say the experts, and it's not good for people.

00:05:55.980 It's not good for the world.

00:05:57.100 But Donald and Elon, they don't care.

00:05:59.800 They're going to keep being negative online, guaranteed.

00:06:04.180 And the rest of us are going to keep eating it up, guaranteed.

00:06:08.700 And if you say you disagree with that, here's a suggestion from me.

00:06:14.280 Report back to us the next time you spot a car crash on the highway, okay?

00:06:19.340 And let us know if you slow down to take a look.

00:06:29.800 And let us know if you slow down to take a look.

00:06:59.800 I'm a young, I'm a young, I'm a young, I'm a young.

00:07:19.480 I'm a young, I'm a young, I'm a young guy.

00:07:29.160 I am today

00:07:41.160 I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am

00:07:53.160 I love you Johnny, I Woo, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am

00:08:13.160 ALAS, ALAS, ALAS

00:08:19.540 ALAS, ALAS

00:08:21.220 ALAS

00:08:22.220 ALAS

00:08:23.220 ALAS

00:08:24.220 ALAS

00:08:25.280 ALAS

00:08:26.080 ALAS

00:08:38.340 ALAS

00:08:40.660 ALAS

00:08:42.500 This is CFRA Live, Sunday Political Panel.

00:09:04.140 And welcome to it. Joining us this morning, Tasha Carran in Political Call,

00:09:07.180 News 4, the National Post, a writer for GZero Media. Tasha, good morning. Happy Sunday.

00:09:11.280 Good morning. Happy Sunday.

00:09:13.760 And Warren Cattelli is here, strategist and post-media columnist.

00:09:16.060 You can read his latest in the Toronto Sun. Good morning, Warren.

00:09:19.280 Good morning. Go Oilers.

00:09:21.080 Go Oilers. Yeah, boy. Heartbreaking couple of games in overtime.

00:09:25.620 Carl Blaget is the president of Attraction Strategies. He's going to join us momentarily as well.

00:09:30.220 Aside from the Stanley Cup playoffs, lots of political news to talk about this week.

00:09:33.680 We've even got legislation. It's been months.

00:09:36.660 A couple of things I wanted to start with first.

00:09:38.320 The G7 question, I think, is a big one that I wanted to start with here.

00:09:42.340 India's Prime Minister Modi, of course, invited here.

00:09:45.240 Prime Minister Mark Carney has had to defend that decision.

00:09:48.260 Warren, just given everything that's happened over the course of the past couple of years,

00:09:51.900 do you think it's too soon at this point?

00:09:53.500 Yeah, I do, you know, because the highest levels of the Indian regime were found credibly to have killed the Canadian on Canadian soil.

00:10:03.500 But, you know, I guess we're going to forget all about that.

00:10:05.960 And I think it's symptomatic.

00:10:07.360 We can talk about it later in the show.

00:10:09.280 You know, you know, how Carney is doing many, many things that are the polar opposite of Trudeau.

00:10:17.960 You know, Trudeau went out and I thought, you know, we talked about it on the show and I felt he was right to do so.

00:10:24.500 And I thought he was actually courageous to do so, to accuse the Indian regime of murder.

00:10:30.160 And then we got Mark Carney inviting the head of that regime to the G7.

00:10:36.140 Like, it just blows my mind.

00:10:38.080 And, you know, conservatives running around saying Mark Carney is the same as Justin Trudeau.

00:10:42.960 They're dreaming in technic colour.

00:10:45.320 This guy could not be more different.

00:10:47.120 And the Modi invitation to the G7 is proof positive of that.

00:10:51.440 I see more similarities between him and Stephen Harper, to be quite honest here.

00:10:55.160 I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit.

00:10:56.640 But, Tasha, is it too soon to have Modi on Canadian grounds, given what he and his government have been accused of?

00:11:04.140 I don't think so.

00:11:05.440 I think that things, yes, there's no question that those findings show.

00:11:10.820 There was a link with the Indian government.

00:11:12.600 At the same time, right now he's also talking to China.

00:11:15.240 He's talking to everyone.

00:11:16.680 We're in a very different situation than we were when those revelations came out.

00:11:19.920 And I felt when Trudeau did that, I didn't think him courageous.

00:11:22.420 I thought he botched the whole thing.

00:11:23.580 And the United States also pursued the Indian government or Indian agents who apparently did the same kind of thing in the U.S.

00:11:32.200 or attempted to.

00:11:33.420 They did it under the radar.

00:11:35.260 They didn't do it to that level of standing in a press conference and calling out the government.

00:11:39.380 Basically, I hate to say it again, it's playing domestic politics in Canada.

00:11:43.700 Justin Trudeau wanted the Sikh vote.

00:11:45.660 There are a lot of Sikhs in his cabinet.

00:11:46.860 And the Sikh community is outraged by the situation.

00:11:51.260 But the reality is it was domestic politics at play.

00:11:54.100 I think with him, it wasn't a question of principle.

00:11:56.660 And so now you have the opposite.

00:11:57.860 You have Carney saying, OK, you know, maybe this isn't as principle either, but we're in a time of trade.

00:12:03.360 We've got to repair these relations.

00:12:04.860 The relationship with India has been completely destroyed after the government came out with an entire Indo-Pacific strategy a couple of years ago, which basically Trudeau destroyed.

00:12:14.100 So, you know, all that work went for nothing.

00:12:17.020 He wants to repair that now.

00:12:18.740 And I think it makes sense.

00:12:20.840 And, you know, geopolitics is what it is.

00:12:23.660 You've got a situation now where also Donald Trump is coming.

00:12:26.240 A lot of people don't think he should come to Canada.

00:12:28.180 But, OK, he is coming.

00:12:29.860 And he's, you know, not done that.

00:12:31.860 But he's done many things we think are reprehensible as well.

00:12:35.140 You know, what's going on with the immigration and migrants and bringing up the National Guard in the U.S.

00:12:39.640 and all sorts of things that would not probably happen in our country.

00:12:42.640 He does.

00:12:43.040 So this is the geopolitical reality we live in.

00:12:46.680 And I think, yeah, Modi needs to be there because he's also the antipode to China.

00:12:51.580 And it's a relationship that we need to cultivate.

00:12:54.780 And Carney invoking the economy, saying, you know, talk about the size of India's economy.

00:12:58.660 And that's why it's important that Modi is there at this point.

00:13:01.740 Carl Belenche is the president at Traction Strategies.

00:13:03.900 Carl is here this morning.

00:13:05.120 Carl, do you think given what we've been talking about here,

00:13:07.260 we've been kind of mentioning the accusations that the former prime minister had made against the Indian government here.

00:13:13.020 Given that, do you think it's too soon for Modi to be on Canadian soil at this point?

00:13:17.580 I do.

00:13:18.080 I do, unless somebody was on Syria making those accusations.

00:13:22.720 But the evidence seems to point out that they were serious.

00:13:27.180 And, you know, the fact that we're just disregarding that, I think, is not a good thing.

00:13:33.140 So, frankly, murdering a Canadian citizen, you know, sponsored by a foreign government, we should not be inviting him here.

00:13:44.340 I don't care about the economy.

00:13:46.040 At some point, you have to stand on some principles, and this is not it.

00:13:50.400 So, frankly, it's disappointing to your desk.

00:13:53.620 Donald Trump is a different ballgame altogether.

00:13:56.780 But when it comes to India, you know, it's more than political interference when we're talking about a plot to assassinate Canadian citizens, on Canadian soil, no less.

00:14:09.580 That's where the buck should stop.

00:14:11.980 And, frankly, Mark Carney here is not showing strong leadership at all.

00:14:17.040 And I want to turn our attention to the U.S.

00:14:19.340 Tasha and Carl are both kind of mentioning this is a G7 irritant in many ways here.

00:14:25.180 But I'm mentioning that Donald Trump has done things, but not quite to this level with the U.S.

00:14:29.300 So, he is another G7 irritant here.

00:14:31.820 We saw the tariffs this week, steel and aluminum, going from 25% to 50%.

00:14:35.460 We've been kind of slow playing our response, it seems, to the not so much a great reaction from the steel industry at this point.

00:14:43.780 We're also hearing about possible ongoing U.S. trade talks.

00:14:47.320 Tasha, I guess, what's your read on this whole situation between us and the U.S. right now?

00:14:51.220 There's whispers out there that there's possibly a deal getting done, but Pete Hoxtra is also talking out of his behind, I think, a little bit here.

00:14:58.320 So, what's your read of what's going on here?

00:15:01.320 My read is that I can't read it because it's happening behind the scenes.

00:15:04.660 I do.

00:15:05.520 You know, it's, again, this is Carney's style is very different than Trudeau.

00:15:09.920 So, this is the sort of thing that's done, and it reflects his experience, I think, as a central banker as opposed to a politician.

00:15:17.260 It's like, okay, let's get people in the room and figure it out, right?

00:15:20.640 Politics is much more complicated, much messier.

00:15:23.240 As my colleagues' comments point out, people have different views.

00:15:26.220 They can be very strong and based on issues that are not, I should say, that are not economic, for one thing, but that also engage communities.

00:15:36.780 Carney's not that interested in engaging communities as much as getting stuff done.

00:15:42.320 And so, in this case, yeah, I think he is talking to Trump.

00:15:45.560 I don't know if they get a deal in a week.

00:15:47.280 That would be pretty impressive, quite honestly.

00:15:50.540 I think, though, that the reflection of the fact that they've tabled these two bills, I know we want to talk about those, on border security in particular, go to the issues that are, you know, a problem for the U.S.

00:16:03.040 So, I think that reflects those bills.

00:16:05.420 I don't think it's an accident.

00:16:06.100 I think they came out probably of the, you know, the talks that are happening.

00:16:09.440 It's like, look, we're doing this, we're doing that.

00:16:11.980 And quid pro quo, give us other things.

00:16:14.380 So, we'll see.

00:16:15.580 I can't predict, you know, whether they'll get a deal by then.

00:16:18.720 But I think that the fact they are speaking and they have a good relationship is better than the opposite.

00:16:24.140 I do think it's really funny.

00:16:26.260 The U.S. ambassador to Canada, Pete Huckstra, this week speaking about how, you know, these talks are going so great they haven't even leaked out as I could, as I'd leak them out right now and speak about how they're happening right now.

00:16:36.840 To me, that screams to me that the Trump administration might be in a hurry to get a deal done here.

00:16:41.700 I'm not quite sure as of yet.

00:16:43.460 But, Warren, what's your read on this situation?

00:16:45.480 It does seem like there's something happening.

00:16:47.240 We just really don't know what yet.

00:16:49.660 My colleague, Brian Lilly at Post Media, had the story two weeks ago.

00:16:53.200 So, it did leak.

00:16:54.280 What do I think is going on here?

00:16:55.900 You know, I think Mark Carney's morphing into a progressive conservative.

00:17:00.880 Trudeau called the trade position in the United States very dumb, quote unquote.

00:17:06.180 Carney secretly starting new trade negotiations.

00:17:09.600 Taxes, Trudeau raises taxes, Carney cuts them.

00:17:12.260 Carbon tax, Trudeau creates it, Carney kills it.

00:17:15.480 Capital gains, Trudeau raises them, Carney slashes them.

00:17:19.000 Modi inviting, you know, a murderer by the looks of it to the G7.

00:17:23.560 The monarchy is invisible under Trudeau.

00:17:26.780 You know, it's the throne speech.

00:17:28.340 There it is, the king.

00:17:29.780 With Carney pipelines, Trudeau's preventing them.

00:17:32.780 Anyway, you can go on and on and on.

00:17:35.180 And, like, it is a fundamentally different government.

00:17:39.920 And does, you know, Trump's appearance at the G7, is that a signifier of it?

00:17:45.100 Perhaps.

00:17:46.060 I could actually see Trudeau picking up the phone and saying,

00:17:49.220 Donald, you know, we're concerned about you coming.

00:17:52.160 You know, you've got lots of other things to do.

00:17:54.540 Perhaps you should, you know, reconsider attending the G7.

00:17:58.700 I think what Carney is doing is bringing in despots and others who violate the rule of law to the G7 to give Trump cover.

00:18:07.500 Like, I think that's actually what's taking place here.

00:18:10.000 And, you know, it is all kind of extraordinary.

00:18:12.800 I just wonder if liberal voters think that this is what they were going to get when they voted for Mark Carney.

00:18:18.680 I wanted to just quickly ask you about that as well, Warren, because I've been kind of referencing that, you know, there's a lot of contrast things going on here.

00:18:26.380 One, I do find a lot of similarities between Mark Carney and Stephen Harper at this moment.

00:18:31.380 But does this put Pierre Paulyev in a weird spot?

00:18:33.700 Like, where do you go from here?

00:18:34.740 Do you go to the center?

00:18:35.720 Do you go to the right?

00:18:36.620 He's kind of forcing you more to the right.

00:18:38.140 No, Warren?

00:18:38.540 Well, Dick Morris, who advised Bill Clinton and Republicans, called the triangulation, right?

00:18:44.280 You steal the position of your opponent, you have your own position, and then you end up at some kind of synthesis.

00:18:50.540 And I think that's what's happening here is this guy appropriates conservative positions.

00:18:55.920 My strong belief is that they were his positions to start with, and he kind of submarined them during the liberal leadership.

00:19:04.140 Like, he really is, you know, the guy who was the governor to the Bank of Canada under Stephen Harper.

00:19:10.240 And then they had a close working relationship and believed many of the same things.

00:19:16.400 So I think that's what we're seeing now.

00:19:18.420 What does that do for Paulyev?

00:19:19.980 It gives him no oxygen to breathe.

00:19:22.480 It gives him nowhere left to go.

00:19:24.480 Like, he can't do the convoy and anti-vax and all the other crazy stuff that he did, you know, four years ago, three years ago, because that just pushes him further to the margins.

00:19:36.800 He knows he needs to move to the center, but Mark Carney is already there.

00:19:41.000 He's already there on the center and the center right.

00:19:44.020 That's where I find it kind of fascinating is the positioning right now where it is.

00:19:48.240 Carl, back to Prime Minister Carney in a sense of talking about how we're responding to the U.S. right now.

00:19:53.580 Now, we've been kind of slow playing our response to U.S. tariffs, the doubling of tariffs.

00:19:58.120 We haven't hit back as of right now.

00:20:00.560 There is word about a possible deal being done.

00:20:03.000 Do you have any kind of read on the situation between Canada and the U.S. right now?

00:20:06.480 Do you think we're getting closer to some kind of deal?

00:20:09.960 I'm not sure.

00:20:11.460 But the Prime Minister was very clear.

00:20:13.160 He's going to give it some time, but not more.

00:20:16.640 Whatever that means.

00:20:17.540 So, the thing is, you know, I think the Canada feels pretty good right now about where it's at.

00:20:29.260 And they don't want to retaliate too quickly.

00:20:31.900 And they hope that Doug Ford doesn't impose those higher prices on electricity export and so that he calmed down the beast.

00:20:39.660 But I'm not sure it's something that can be done.

00:20:41.540 And frankly, you know, we all know that the last deal was negotiated by the same president.

00:20:47.140 So, will the new deal be worth the paper it's bitted on?

00:20:49.940 That's a question Canadians have.

00:20:51.960 So, what are we willing to compromise to get into a situation where, you know, three years down the road, it might be the same ballgame all over again?

00:21:00.700 Who knows?

00:21:01.720 Right?

00:21:02.200 So, this is the situation we're at.

00:21:03.940 And I just want to add something about what Warren said about Carney being a progressive conservative, morphing into one.

00:21:12.440 I mean, he's not morphing into one.

00:21:13.720 He's been.

00:21:14.320 He's always been.

00:21:15.680 There's a reason why Mark Carney was considered as a potential successor to Jim Flaherty as a minister of finance by Stephen Harper.

00:21:23.020 This guy, you know, ran on a platform that was clearly a progressive conservative platform.

00:21:29.980 He's moved to the right, and he banked on New Democrats being so scared of Pierre Poirier that they would vote for him even if he was moving to the right.

00:21:39.700 And so, he's done that.

00:21:41.340 It's succeeded.

00:21:42.800 Now, of course, the movement keeps going.

00:21:44.640 We saw, Tasha mentioned the border security bill.

00:21:48.260 That's a gross overreach.

00:21:49.520 That's the kind of stuff that, you know, the NDP will look at and say, hey, there is some hope because Mark Carney is opening up his left flank.

00:21:56.500 So, the question is, how long will Pierre Poirier have scared Canadians?

00:22:01.720 Will he keep going in the same direction he's been going, or will he shift right now?

00:22:06.460 We don't hear a lot from him.

00:22:08.060 He's still licking his wound.

00:22:09.760 But it will be interesting to see how the conservatives react in the next few weeks and months, especially after Pierre Poirier comes back in the House of Commons.

00:22:18.480 And you mentioned the border bill, one of them.

00:22:20.460 Two big, beautiful bills this week, we can call them.

00:22:22.980 So, the border bill and the one Canadian economy bill, just you mentioned the overreach there on the border bill, the criticism that it's getting across.

00:22:30.060 We'll start there because, you know, some of this stuff, I remember Vic Taves back in like 2012, right, is some of the same stuff, some of these same powers that law enforcement were looking for.

00:22:38.600 And it did not go well for him and for the conservative government.

00:22:41.420 But now they're also in this bill as well.

00:22:43.680 I guess, is this kind of further proof of what you're saying of this progressive conservative kind of aspect of this prime minister and this new government?

00:22:50.200 Yeah, I think so.

00:22:52.640 Because, you know, when you look at the bill and the powers that it's giving different authorities, it has nothing to do with the border.

00:22:58.380 There's a lot of stuff in there that is clearly an invasion of Canadian privacy for no good reason other than the state wants to have that power, you know, to snoop in and what Canadians are doing.

00:23:10.060 So it would appear similar to what Vic Taves was doing back then.

00:23:16.500 And it's also one of those famous, you know, omnibus bill that encompass so many things that it will be hard for Canadians to understand the full extent of it until it is put into force.

00:23:28.780 And then that's where we will see core challenges probably arise from situation and could take a long time for some of the provisions of that to be striking down.

00:23:38.780 But Warren, as a lawyer, would know better than me on this.

00:23:41.500 But I feel that this bill, you know, is the first step into not only shifting Mark Carney into a progressive conservative, but shifting the entire government.

00:23:51.740 And you can see all these, you know, formerly woke liberals lining up behind him because he brought them back to paradise.

00:24:00.000 And Warren, two big bills, that one of them, the border bill as well, the one Canadian economy bill, also part of this as well, kind of fulfilling a big election promise here.

00:24:08.300 Do you take anything from these two bills you kind of already alluded to, kind of heading more towards more conservative overtones here?

00:24:13.500 Well, they're both consistent with my growing theory about Carney and about this government is they are becoming, they're orbiting towards the right.

00:24:25.200 You got civil liberties groups losing their minds over the border security bill.

00:24:30.040 You know, under Trudeau, we had a massive increase in migrants into this country for good or for ill.

00:24:35.700 And this guy's talking about increasing police powers at the same time that Trump's sending in the Marines into Los Angeles, by the way, to prevent migrants from reaching Canada.

00:24:48.820 And then you've got on the economic front, you know, what he's talking about there, essentially, the focus of that legislation is boosting pipelines and critical minerals and mines and nuclear facilities.

00:25:04.040 And again, as Carl's pointed out, the left is going to lose their mind over that as well.

00:25:09.880 And Carney isn't backing down.

00:25:11.420 He wants to get all of that passed before the House rises on June the 20th and saying, you know, the House should sit longer if it has to, to get these things through.

00:25:21.200 Like, this is a fundamental reordering of the priorities of the government of Canada.

00:25:25.720 And it could not be more different than what we had under Justin.

00:25:29.120 Like, it's extraordinary.

00:25:30.880 But the thing I find just as extraordinary is how little people seem to be paying attention to it.

00:25:36.380 Things are changing under their feet.

00:25:38.260 I don't think they've noticed it.

00:25:40.160 Yeah, I just think about the last six or seven months, right?

00:25:42.680 Like, how much things have changed politically, domestically, internationally.

00:25:45.960 It's incredible to kind of think about the shift that's happened here.

00:25:49.640 Tasha, just on these two big bills this week, I suppose, right, if you're a conservative government, is this exactly what you're waiting for here?

00:25:55.160 Or, I guess, what do you kind of take from these two big bills here?

00:25:58.700 You know, when I look at the two big bills, and one of the parts of it that is extremely important is the disrupting of illicit financing, which is a huge issue for Canadians that no one has addressed.

00:26:10.040 They're allowing FinTrack now to share information with the Elections Canada.

00:26:15.260 So, dealing with the involvement of foreign money in our elections, which we don't want to have.

00:26:21.480 They're also strengthening anti-money laundering supervision.

00:26:24.480 Foreign money and fentanyl proceeds and all the bad stuff that the U.S. has complained about have distorted our housing markets in places like Vancouver.

00:26:33.160 They have allowed organized crime to establish itself here.

00:26:36.280 Nothing wrong with that.

00:26:37.420 That part is completely overdue.

00:26:39.060 Some of the other pieces, actually, are designed to improve the asylum system, make it easier for people to get through, not harder.

00:26:46.800 People who don't get asylum, yeah, they will be removed faster, but the people who legitimately are seeking it will get a faster track.

00:26:53.800 So, I don't see what people are screaming about on this.

00:26:56.220 The one positive of Trump, and I say the one positive, is that he has forced us to clean up our act on certain things that we should have dealt with, including money laundering of money around fentanyl and from China.

00:27:08.120 And we ignore that.

00:27:09.320 And truth of government, blithely ignore that for 10 years.

00:27:12.260 So, I'm happy about that.

00:27:13.760 And the one, you know, removing the barriers to the internal economy is a no-brainer.

00:27:17.540 That should have been done, too.

00:27:18.340 So, whether this is progressive conservative or not, you know, I certainly don't have a problem with that.

00:27:22.980 But I think it's good for the country.

00:27:24.780 I don't think these things are bad things.

00:27:26.960 Am I surprised Carney is moving this quickly?

00:27:29.540 A little, yeah.

00:27:30.520 On the border stuff, yeah, because that wasn't really on his agenda in the election at all.

00:27:35.000 The economy stuff, no.

00:27:36.300 That is something he had talked about from the beginning.

00:27:38.580 Yeah, the border stuff, it does make me think that there's more kind of going on in the background, as you were kind of alluding to earlier with U.S. trade talks as well.

00:27:46.660 I wanted to sneak one last one.

00:27:48.120 I mean, I talked about kind of Pierre Polio's leadership position last week, so I wanted to squeeze in one about the NDP this week.

00:27:53.620 Carl, I'll start with you on this one.

00:27:54.900 You know, it looked like, you know, it was never really in doubt that the throne speech was going to pass.

00:27:59.160 There was no actual official vote held on this.

00:28:01.460 But how important do you think it was?

00:28:02.740 Do you think the NDP did a good job here of standing their ground and not caving in a sense of trying to get as far away from the liberals as possible?

00:28:10.140 It did not help them in the last sitting of parliament, and especially electorally.

00:28:13.840 Do you think this was a smart move by them to not in any way, shape, or form look like they are supporting the liberals?

00:28:18.680 Yeah, I thought so.

00:28:20.320 I thought it was a smart move because it put the pressure on the other parties, and, you know, they caved.

00:28:26.060 They didn't want to force a vote.

00:28:27.940 So the NDP needs to stand strong.

00:28:30.000 And if they're the ones standing alone, that's fine, right?

00:28:33.580 If they become the opposition to Mark Carney, that's fine.

00:28:36.720 So, of course, it won't be always like that, but it's a clear signal to Mark Carney that you can't take the NDP for granted.

00:28:45.380 And if the liberals want to govern us, if they have a majority, well, they could find some trouble ahead.

00:28:52.140 And we saw that when the conservatives were able to adopt their amendment against the will of the government, an amendment that called for a budget this spring.

00:28:59.520 And, frankly, that was embarrassing for the liberals to lose that vote.

00:29:04.620 It's the kind of accident that can happen on a confidence matter and bring down the government and have unintended consequences.

00:29:11.560 Everybody remembers Joel Clark.

00:29:13.120 He also faced that kind of situation where he wanted to govern with a minority as if he had a majority.

00:29:20.560 He could rely on a bunch of social credit MPs, but he didn't want to give them anything.

00:29:25.940 So, in the end, they didn't support his government.

00:29:27.980 He fell, and Pierre Trudeau came back to power.

00:29:32.520 Now, there's also a warning in that scenario for the NDP because the social credit MPs all lost, and the social credit disappeared, never came back into the also comments.

00:29:41.820 So, there's some interesting tidbits for both parties here.

00:29:45.200 Yeah, definitely.

00:29:46.260 Warren, just in a sense of trying to kind of find that new identity, whatever that is for the NDP, if it's going back to be, you know, more as a party of conscience or what have you.

00:29:55.540 Do you think it was smart of them to just distance themselves and not give in here, even if it meant going back to the polls?

00:30:01.720 It's what they should have done two or three years ago, obviously, you know, because they've lost party status and they've lost their leader in their entire situation.

00:30:10.020 They need to be, again, what they were, you know, social Democrats who believe in this country.

00:30:16.240 That's what people expect of them, and I think that's what they're going to do as a consequence of what we've been talking about, which is Carney moving ever closer to the right, you know, occupying Pierre Polyev's positions.

00:30:28.180 That creates a huge opportunity for new Democrats, and I think a lot of them realize that the question is, is putting Avi Lewis in place as your leader, who has, you know, he's a friend of mine, but he's got positions that I think are going to alienate a lot of Canadians.

00:30:44.640 Is that something that they should be doing?

00:30:46.340 And Tasha, just last word to you on this, just from a strategy point of view, was this smart?

00:30:51.560 As we've got to mention, and Carney has been opening the left flank here, so it does seem like the NDP is poised.

00:30:56.980 We'll see what happens, but he's poised to find that new identity here.

00:31:02.120 Well, it's interesting.

00:31:03.900 The more he occupies the political center-right, the more he marginalizes or pushes to the fringes both parties.

00:31:10.540 Because, yeah, Avi Lewis is a friend of mine, too, from way back, and he's got, you know, if the Leap Manifesto becomes the NDP's calling card, it's going to be seen as a radical left party, just as the convoy would make the conservatives a radical right party if it's the dominant element.

00:31:27.620 So by essentially, like I said, removing this larger, centrist, progressive conservative, as you put tone on the government,

00:31:36.340 Carney's solidifying the basis of that progressive conservative vote, right, which leads what?

00:31:41.540 In the party itself, I mean, that vote has left the party in large measure in the last election.

00:31:46.620 You're going to have a harder right conservative party.

00:31:49.160 And so that's a way to consolidate power.

00:31:51.480 You get the majority of the center, right?

00:31:53.520 It's so ironic.

00:31:54.840 I'm looking at this and going, hmm, you know, it is conservative.

00:31:59.580 The people probably have said, please steal my policies.

00:32:02.180 I don't think he understood when he said what that meant.

00:32:04.600 It means please steal my voters, too.

00:32:06.420 And that is exactly, I think, what Carney's doing.

00:32:08.560 Four in ten Albertans approve of his government.

00:32:10.820 OK, they didn't vote for him, but four in ten approve, like him.

00:32:14.160 So he's on the right track with those folks.

00:32:17.440 And that's a danger for the conservatives as well.

00:32:21.080 At Trudeau's High, I can't even imagine a four in ten approval rating in Alberta.

00:32:25.460 But we'll leave it there for right now.

00:32:27.900 Tasha Kerrin and Warren Kinsella, Carl Blanchier, thanks so much for your time this morning.

00:32:30.880 You guys have a great Sunday.

00:32:32.320 Thank you.

00:32:32.760 Thanks, guys.

00:32:33.640 Tasha Kerrin, a political columnist for the National Post, an author and a writer for GZERO Media.

00:32:37.220 Warren Kinsella is a strategist and Post Media columnist.

00:32:39.900 You read his latest in the Toronto Sun.

00:32:41.640 Carl Blanchier is the president at Traction Strategies.

00:32:44.040 We'll see you next time.

00:33:14.040 We'll see you next time.

00:33:44.040 We'll see you next time.

00:34:14.040 We'll see you next time.

00:34:16.040 We'll see you next time.

00:34:44.040 We'll see you next time.

00:34:46.040 We'll see you next time.

00:35:14.040 We'll see you next time.

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00:35:54.040 We'll see you next time.

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00:35:58.040 We'll see you next time.

00:36:00.040 We'll see you next time.

00:36:10.040 And we're back.

00:36:11.660 We're back with Brian Lilly, scoop guy.

00:36:13.940 Like, this guy's the Jimmy Olsen of Canadian politics, folks.

00:36:19.260 Although you're not as, you know, innocent.

00:36:23.420 Yeah.

00:36:24.380 Well, you're youthful.

00:36:25.640 You're youthful to me.

00:36:26.420 but um a few days ago maybe you can tell people about it um you had a big big scoop that there

00:36:33.780 were in fact notwithstanding what carney said during the election carney was secretly negotiating

00:36:38.940 with uh donald trump's administration for a new trade deal you were the first to have that story

00:36:46.500 what's happened since um just a lot of talk at this point and unless i missed it overnight i

00:36:52.560 believe a deal's been announced but we should expect something before the g7 starts and that

00:36:58.280 is next sunday the 15th and you can and ask us alberta where as percy down said to me uh for

00:37:05.000 when your guy held it there we'll let the bears do the security um it sounds like percy they uh

00:37:12.560 they wanted to uh uh have a deal in place before then uh last tuesday i was at ambassador pete

00:37:20.340 folkstra's uh speech to the empire club in toronto probably about a thousand folks mostly business

00:37:27.120 audience and you know i do what i do i just work the room and talk to people and some folks started

00:37:32.620 saying yeah expect the deal before uh probably next week and i thought that sounds a bit much

00:37:37.520 and then you hear it again from somebody else uh and this is all from the business side and then i

00:37:42.600 started calling political contacts and we're like yeah okay it's really close not there yet but it's

00:37:47.020 really close and then wednesday uh the second scoop was there's a high level draft in place

00:37:53.740 and the question is did they get it up over the finish line now i interviewed ambassador hokster on

00:38:00.900 friday um for the full comment podcast that'll drop tomorrow morning and we were talking about this

00:38:09.120 and he said i'm not going to get out in front of the president yeah talks have been going on

00:38:13.080 including personally between carney and trump so you know it's at a very high level um but he said

00:38:21.900 you know negotiations who knows they're they're going on but you can always get to that one last

00:38:27.760 thing and then that becomes you know the insurmountable thing and you know if anyone's been

00:38:34.920 through uh you know buying or selling a house you know what that can be like no no i definitely need

00:38:40.160 that chandelier you must leave it or something or and i must take it and people will fight over

00:38:46.240 strange things so but you know i expect the deal before the g7 both sides want this as that what was

00:38:52.340 the term they used um this distraction set aside all right so the world leaders meet so congratulations

00:38:58.060 to you for that uh but let me just try out a theory on you that uh i advanced on cfra this morning which is

00:39:06.000 this isn't kind of what we expected you know those people in canada who voted for mark carney

00:39:12.620 you know who was bashing the hell out of donald trump and bashing the hell out of trump's position

00:39:17.480 on trade and then find out we've got vau a secret negotiations underway and trudeau saying you know

00:39:25.460 modi's behind the murder of a canadian citizen canadian soil modi's now coming to the g7

00:39:31.280 and you know carbon tax and capital gains and and and like it it seems to me that mark carney is

00:39:41.320 orbiting more and more into the space once occupied by pierre paulia what do you think

00:39:47.560 so i've heard some people say oh he's a closet conservative i think the star had a column saying

00:39:55.940 mark carney's really popular with conservatives i wouldn't say that um quite yet he's four in ten

00:40:03.160 albertans four in ten albertans say they're impressed with him uh and which is the same level

00:40:09.940 as pierre paulia has right now and they both have the same level of really not impressed which is just

00:40:15.120 about a third interesting numbers from janet brown uh you know well-known pollster and reputable

00:40:23.160 pollster in alberta uh so there'll be less awkward moments in a couple of weeks when carney goes and

00:40:29.040 puts on his uh cowboy hat that he's got in storage somewhere to uh show up at the stampede uh but no

00:40:36.480 he um he definitely sounded like paulia and i wrote my column about that for the sun

00:40:42.660 the language sounds the same on these big projects the ways going about it not the same at all and

00:40:51.540 i i still wonder if given the criteria he set out with the premiers and then in that bill uh is it the

00:40:59.620 one big beautiful build bill yeah um i'm not sure that anything will happen and that that kind of

00:41:07.500 worries me he's still going through mental and physical gymnastics to get anything done

00:41:13.620 but what about his border bill then um to me another indicator of of him moving the the government

00:41:20.640 liberal party to the right you know you got civil libertarians losing their minds over the implications

00:41:26.060 of this bill for uh migrants refugees and immigrants and so on and basically what it it entails in part

00:41:35.500 is dramatically boosting the powers of the police um and border security officers to interdict

00:41:43.780 those people um again you know kind of surprising coming from the liberal government certainly the

00:41:49.960 kind of thing you never expected to see from justin trudeau is it no no not at all now i have to

00:41:55.600 dive into bill too because i haven't really looked at it yet i've been focused on the trade and other

00:42:01.680 stuff uh but it sounds to me like there's some stuff i'll like in it and some stuff that sounds

00:42:06.700 like it was written by vic taste when he was public safety exactly exactly and i and i fought him and

00:42:12.140 won uh so you know my guess on that is uh as is often the case they're trying to do some good things

00:42:20.100 and right some wrongs and then you've got the bureaucrats who are always they always have these ideas in

00:42:25.620 a drawer that they dust off for the next government and it sounds like some of those ones that go really

00:42:30.900 too far that other governments have been caught trying to do like vic taves under stephen harper

00:42:36.760 uh that that got pulled out of a drawer like hey bosh shove this in there um so i i it it sounds like

00:42:44.820 there's some parts of the bill that are are not in good shape it sounds like the minister in charge

00:42:49.200 uh is not up to the job he was before committee of the whole this week and the conservatives were

00:42:56.960 asking him basic questions and he didn't have answers and part of his his reply was hey i've

00:43:01.800 only been here three weeks that's great but on some of these you should have at least read a briefing note

00:43:07.040 and you know he he ended up just looking really bad two miles up macro you know does this not that

00:43:15.840 all of these moves by carney you know he's talking about on his border bill and his economic bill

00:43:20.840 he you know the house is supposed to rise as you know in a few days and carney is saying no if we

00:43:25.380 have to stick around to get the job done and pass these bills we're going to do that like see seems

00:43:30.280 pretty committed to them does that who said he would do that yeah exactly and like yeah and so but

00:43:38.000 you know does this not crowd out space on the center right for pierre polyevre and create lots of

00:43:44.720 opportunity for the poor old ndp who's these days looking for a way to distinguish themselves like

00:43:50.180 from a mile up it looks to me like this is this is a happy development for the ndp

00:43:55.680 in a worrisome one for the conservatives it it just depends on if he starts delivering

00:44:03.480 um and yes they're just in there yes you know give them time but he does have to deliver at some point

00:44:11.000 um and so if he can get things built if he can pass a sensible border bill that doesn't you know

00:44:18.120 really cross over the line with civil libertarians myself included then he will get a lot of credit

00:44:25.480 and a lot of canadians in the middle be they normally liberal or conservative will be happy with

00:44:30.800 them like sure you've seen the nanos poll uh that shows that support for polyevre has dropped

00:44:36.940 considerably uh but i don't see the ndp growing for a little while i think people on that side will

00:44:43.520 hug carney for a bit still they're still worried about trump all of this is response to trump

00:44:50.560 um so but in the future i think it will give them an opening and it really does give uh you know

00:45:01.300 polyevre and the conservatives difficulty in you know finding and keeping support one of the reasons

00:45:07.880 polyevre was able to uh grow that big lead uh you know prior to the election was that uh justin trudeau

00:45:17.160 had abandoned the middle justin trudeau said hey you right wayne ndp here i'm gonna outbox you on the left

00:45:25.100 and and he abandoned traditional liberal positions that gave polyevre a lot of room

00:45:32.260 carney is is at least trying to take it back uh again it's going to come down to delivery the last

00:45:39.700 government had a whole uh consultant on deliverology and never delivered um i gotta cheer for canada and

00:45:46.640 hope that carney does because we need you know a lot of these things to happen uh in the face of

00:45:51.380 what's going on with the u.s economy it's about to take off and cheer for the oilers too final question

00:45:56.160 because i know that you've got a big day ed um so i see i noticed that donald trump is not sending in

00:46:03.340 the national guard or the marines into florida and texas which i have a huge problem with illegal

00:46:08.900 migrants and but is sending them into california and talking about doing it in new york what is what's

00:46:15.700 the difference between those those four states there's i it's i can't think of what the the key

00:46:22.260 difference is did am i right in suggesting that this really what trump is up to with the troops and

00:46:28.780 the police is has more to do with uh his political fortunes than anything else apparently partly uh trump

00:46:37.100 did fairly well in california he took the uh uh riverside county the place that i uh reside in once

00:46:43.880 in a while when i get to go down uh to the uh the sunny south uh which you know had previously been

00:46:50.140 democrat but you know he knows gavin newsom wants to run and gavin newsom is making all the appearances

00:46:55.980 that he's going to run in 2028 he should have run in 2024 in place of biden but you know they didn't

00:47:02.240 listen to me um so that's one part of the politics and yes abbott in texas and de santis in florida

00:47:09.480 are republicans but the other part is la mayor karen bass was a democrat and a disaster in her

00:47:15.680 own party should be getting rid of her she called for people to block the ice agents and to protest

00:47:21.880 and to do you know she called for what is happening now and now isn't responding to it properly i'm not

00:47:28.340 sure i'd like the idea of nationalizing part of the national guard and and what he's doing uh but bass

00:47:35.260 is a lunatic and is mayor of the second largest city in america i i think eric adams in new york is

00:47:41.320 going to deal with this and you know nothing will happen in new york i hope anyway uh but um

00:47:47.540 i i think you're right on the the political side with the governors uh but you have to take into

00:47:55.580 account that bass is insane well lunacy seems to be uh seems to be the coin of the realm in the united

00:48:03.840 states of america these days can i just uh i'm gonna post it on x shortly and i encourage everyone

00:48:10.160 to find that the uh video poster i'm gonna put up from ben shapiro who's lying for the past several

00:48:16.000 years has been first party to sanity wins he's got some info on the uh what's behind the musk trump

00:48:22.400 battle oh and the the guy on the inside of the trump uh white house sebastian gore the office of

00:48:29.380 personnel management and uh how he's pushing this and what the trigger point was so i'd recommend

00:48:35.420 you look at that well tell us tell you can't leave us hanging like that before you go just give us give

00:48:40.300 us a taste here okay so uh the straw that ben says you know he's got great contacts he was talking with

00:48:48.040 people and they said the straw that broke the camel's back from musk was trump's decision to pull

00:48:53.600 the nomination of jared i believe it's jared isaacson from as nasa head yeah and they did it

00:49:01.240 because they said well he donated to democrats prior and so does donald trump yeah donald trump did up

00:49:08.240 until he decided to run for president in 2015 so sebastian gore who is very tight with trump and that's

00:49:15.540 why when the premiers all went to washington he's one of the people they met with that's why i said it

00:49:20.020 wasn't a wasted trip this guy has trump's ear constantly and what he's using that for now

00:49:24.780 is he's going around and saying well this person's not loyal they did this this person's not loyal

00:49:29.620 they did that isaacson is apparently very capable and qualified to run nasa but because of this

00:49:36.380 they're saying he's not loyal so trump's dumping them and ben says look trump doesn't even know these

00:49:41.000 people but you know he's being told they failed the loyalty test and so he dumps them

00:49:45.940 that set off musk and uh apparently it's a struggle for power that includes the office of personnel

00:49:52.460 management there you go everybody go read ben shapiro always read brian lily who's got the

00:49:57.080 scoop on what's taking place in international affairs and trade mr lily have a great day great

00:50:02.200 week thank you so much talk later bye

00:50:04.960 one two three my baby don't mess around because she loves me so and this i know for sure

00:50:21.980 but does she really want to but can't stand to see me walk out the door

00:50:29.000 don't try to fight the feeling cause the fight alone is killing me right now

00:50:36.640 thank god for mom and dad for sticking two together cause we don't know how

00:50:43.280 you think you got it oh you think you got it but got it just don't get it till there's nothing at all

00:51:03.960 we've been together oh we've been together oh we've been together but separate's always better when

00:51:09.880 our feelings involved if what they say is nothing that's forever then what makes then what makes

00:51:16.820 then what makes then what makes then what makes what makes what makes love exception so why oh why oh

00:51:21.300 why oh why oh why oh why oh why we so in denial when we know what i have here

00:51:26.940 here

00:51:34.680 here

00:51:39.760 here

00:51:41.760 here

00:51:43.060 all right now fellas

00:51:43.860 here

00:51:44.300 here

00:51:44.360 now what cousin being cool

00:51:44.860 here

00:51:45.400 i can't hear ya i said what's what's cooler than being cool

00:51:48.520 What's cooler than being cool

00:51:50.600 All right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-Right A-R- Kush

00:51:55.220 OK now, ladies

00:51:57.400 And we gon' break this thing down in just a few seconds

00:52:00.600 They'll don't have me break this thing down for nothing

00:52:03.480 I wanna see all your baddest behavior

00:52:06.340 Leave me some sugar

00:52:07.840 I am your neighbor

00:52:09.680 Shake it O-Shift Shake it O-Shift Shake it O-Shift Shake it O-Shift Shake it

00:52:14.100 Shake it O-Shift Shake it. O-Shift Shake it like a balleroy

00:52:16.640 I shake it, I shake it, shake it

00:52:18.440 I shake it, I shake it

00:52:19.260 Shake it, I shake it

00:52:20.600 Shake it, I shake it

00:52:22.360 Shake it like a polo

00:52:23.700 Heeya, heeya

00:52:53.700 And we're back with John Mraz to talk about international affairs.

00:53:04.960 John, one way in which international affairs were at its head in Canada this week

00:53:09.520 is previously we know, we don't speculate, we know,

00:53:13.660 because it's been confirmed by the government of the United States

00:53:15.880 and its intelligence agencies as long as almost two years ago,

00:53:20.000 that the Modi government sent operatives into Canada

00:53:24.460 to kill a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil.

00:53:28.780 And Justin Trudeau, I thought, courageously pointed that out and objected to it.

00:53:33.740 And now we've got Mark Carney, the new Prime Minister of Canada,

00:53:36.540 inviting Modi to the G7.

00:53:38.920 So in effect saying, well, it's okay, you know, you can murder our citizens,

00:53:43.180 come on in.

00:53:43.940 What do you think?

00:53:44.640 I think it's a complicated issue.

00:53:47.280 I think that it's easy to say, or to point fingers at Modi,

00:53:52.960 who has been very tough on some elements in the Sikh community, both in India.

00:53:58.300 I mean, he's known as a genocide artist by Khalistani Sikhs in India and here.

00:54:04.720 I think it's also prudent to remember that of the 800,000 Sikhs here in Canada,

00:54:10.720 it's estimated up to 80,000 are supporters of Khalistan.

00:54:14.100 And a lot of the radicals that were fomenting real trouble

00:54:18.640 and committing terrorist acts, including Air India, here in Canada and in India,

00:54:24.220 are hiding here in Canada.

00:54:25.980 Speak to Bob Ray on the Air India inquiry on that.

00:54:28.380 He said he knew who the people were but couldn't prove it and that they were here

00:54:32.020 and that we'd done nothing about it.

00:54:34.280 So it's a complicated issue.

00:54:35.660 But I do know this, in a world where Trump is hyper-protectionist,

00:54:39.820 where we cannot depend on the United States anymore as our greatest trading partner,

00:54:43.660 where we have to create new multilateral trade agreements just to survive as a country

00:54:48.420 and defend ourselves from Trump's imperialism,

00:54:51.080 India is important and Modi needs to be in Alberta,

00:54:54.880 no matter how offensive what he did was in the world of international intrigue.

00:54:59.360 Well, forgive me, but I'm preoccupied with human rights.

00:55:02.720 You know, I listened to my friend Tasha Carradine, who you know this morning,

00:55:07.420 say on CFRA, well, it's geopolitics, global geopolitics.

00:55:11.800 You're saying it's complicated.

00:55:13.460 To me, it's murder.

00:55:14.980 Like, you know, it's too soon.

00:55:17.040 Maybe you're right, but to just a few months later invite Modi to Canada,

00:55:23.140 isn't it too soon?

00:55:25.020 It's a very, it striates me as well.

00:55:29.100 It frustrates me as well.

00:55:30.600 It would be a lot easier if Mr. Modi was able to show us a file that said,

00:55:35.560 see these two guys that got whacked in NBC, backed us the wrong word, murdered.

00:55:39.800 And they were murdered.

00:55:40.880 See these two guys, this is what they were responsible for.

00:55:43.300 This is why we had to come get them.

00:55:44.840 This is the trouble that they were fomenting in our country and would create in yours.

00:55:49.740 These are bad guys, but none of that happened.

00:55:52.880 It was all done cloak and dagger style.

00:55:55.080 It was the United States who had to tip us off that it was done by Indian agents here,

00:56:00.380 Modi agents here in Canada, on our soil, without our consent, without our consideration.

00:56:05.540 And human rights do matter.

00:56:07.460 Having said that, the survival of Canada economically matters as well.

00:56:12.020 And doing business with India is going to be a very important part of that.

00:56:15.520 Speaking of cloak and dagger, so we're finding out from our mutual friend, Brian Lilly,

00:56:21.080 that there have been secret negotiations with Donald Trump for a new trade deal,

00:56:24.880 notwithstanding all of the stuff that Mark Carney said during the election campaign.

00:56:28.520 Now we're finding out that he's behind closed doors doing the precise opposite.

00:56:32.780 He's got a border bill that has got civil libertarians losing their minds

00:56:37.180 because it's entrusting the police with many more powers than they've presently got.

00:56:43.680 It looks to me that in respect of at least international affairs, maybe domestic affairs too,

00:56:50.200 Carney is moving us not so subtly towards the right.

00:56:55.340 Is that something he should be doing?

00:56:57.020 Does that create opportunity for the NDP?

00:56:59.520 Does that crowd out the oxygen for Pierre Pollyup?

00:57:03.560 I think, interestingly, that Mr. Carney is bringing us back to the sort of foreign affairs comportment

00:57:13.740 or policy, foreign affairs policy, that we enjoyed under not only Stephen Harper, but Jean Chrétien.

00:57:20.520 Oh, that's a low blow.

00:57:22.040 I know what you're doing.

00:57:24.400 I think it's Justin Trudeau who took us off track, made us a laughingstock,

00:57:29.020 dressed up in costumes and affected nothing,

00:57:31.020 called himself the senior statesman of the G7 but was patently and summarily ignored by the entire world,

00:57:36.760 was a joke, didn't get anything done,

00:57:39.960 didn't pay attention to what was going on with the United States

00:57:42.760 and left us in a perilous position, didn't grow our economic economy.

00:57:46.400 But unlike Harper and Chrétien, who always understood the value of reaching out to Modi,

00:57:52.160 of reaching out to Xi in China, of having strong multilateral relationships,

00:57:56.020 relationships, I think that's what Mr. Carney's doing, and I am impressed.

00:58:03.580 Aren't you clever?

00:58:04.740 You should write a column about that.

00:58:06.840 The saying, because, you know, I'm not the only guy saying,

00:58:09.380 I'm wondering if he's becoming more conservative.

00:58:11.780 You should do a column about that.

00:58:13.380 No, he's actually becoming more Chrétien-like.

00:58:16.880 Except that he needs to turtle now.

00:58:19.020 There's been too much Carney in the press.

00:58:20.880 He needs to disappear for the summer and let Canadians get around, you know,

00:58:24.680 the barbecues and get out to the camps and the lakes and the cottages

00:58:27.740 and let us fucking forget that the world is fucking on fire everywhere

00:58:32.240 because we're exhausted.

00:58:33.760 It is indeed.

00:58:34.940 But we had some stability this week,

00:58:36.720 and I think this is further sign of Carney occupying the space previously held,

00:58:41.440 as you pointed out, by Harper and Chrétien and perhaps conservatives.

00:58:45.140 We had His Majesty coming to read the speech from the throne,

00:58:48.700 which was no small thing for a guy who's very seriously ill with cancer,

00:58:53.220 as he is, hopefully he gets better.

00:58:56.440 I thought they were sending a signal not just to Trump,

00:58:59.360 but also to Canadians.

00:59:01.060 What do you think?

00:59:02.260 I think it was a little too cute by half.

00:59:04.220 I think it was a very clever idea.

00:59:05.580 I'm going to give it to him.

00:59:06.980 I think it was setting.

00:59:08.000 Trump has a love affair with, you know, with royalty and monarchy

00:59:11.620 because he loves the idea of permanent power, right?

00:59:14.340 And that is the best example of it.

00:59:16.620 He always wanted to ingratiate himself with the Queen and the Royals

00:59:20.280 and was proud that he was invited twice over there, et cetera.

00:59:25.240 So it was a message about Canadian sovereignty.

00:59:28.420 It was everything.

00:59:29.460 But I am an abolitionist.

00:59:31.680 And so there's a part of me that says, fuck the royal family.

00:59:35.420 I had a great love for the Queen because she was just such a cool politician.

00:59:39.520 She was indeed.

00:59:40.180 And she was around for so long.

00:59:41.160 And so I always had an eye against eye, as the Jamaicans would say,

00:59:45.060 conflict about the royalty and the Queen.

00:59:48.420 I have no such conflict with him.

00:59:50.100 I don't find him particularly impressive.

00:59:51.860 I find him neither impressive nor unimpressive.

00:59:55.740 I think he should be irrelevant on the world stage.

00:59:58.720 Having said that, he gave that speech.

01:00:01.260 Americans took note.

01:00:02.580 It got a headline.

01:00:03.660 It reinforced our sovereignty.

01:00:05.340 Good for Mr. Mark Carney.

01:00:07.000 Now, could he shut the fuck up about the royals?

01:00:09.260 Okay, one last thing that is also on the international affairs front.

01:00:15.000 It looks like, and this has been in the makings for some time,

01:00:18.660 Mr. Trump is sending in the National Guard to California.

01:00:22.580 He's talking about sending in the Marines, no less.

01:00:26.280 He's making similar noises about New York, which, you know,

01:00:29.380 coincidentally are both democratic states.

01:00:31.500 I don't see him making the same kind of remarks about Florida or Texas.

01:00:35.440 I wonder why.

01:00:36.880 What's your take on all of this?

01:00:38.240 Does that portend a long, hot summer for the Americans?

01:00:41.700 I hope not, because then you're going back to, like, Watts riots, 65, Kent State,

01:00:46.180 all that stuff.

01:00:46.800 Last time the National Guard were called in was in 1965 by Lyndon B. Johnson

01:00:51.340 to any event in the United States.

01:00:54.660 So, also, latest news this morning.

01:00:57.840 Mayor of L.A. and Gavin Newsom say,

01:01:00.700 we're not letting the National Guard deploy in L.A., so fuck right off.

01:01:04.320 So that's not happening, let alone the Marines, right?

01:01:08.900 I don't know what will happen in New York.

01:01:10.600 The only place I see American military assets moving is to the Capitol for this huge May Day-like

01:01:18.580 communist parade that Trump is having.

01:01:21.280 It's extraordinary.

01:01:21.780 To celebrate himself as an authoritarian despot, right?

01:01:24.540 So, you can see the trainloads of armored cars and tanks going up into the Capitol.

01:01:31.440 It really does remind you of Moscow on May Day, which is their big annual military parade.

01:01:36.420 Or, of course, China does the same thing every year.

01:01:39.640 The cost will be enormous.

01:01:41.840 All pomp and pageantry accomplishes nothing.

01:01:45.080 But if the National Guard are going anywhere, maybe they should go and try and remove Trump from the White House.

01:01:50.160 That's not a bad idea.

01:01:51.460 No, certainly, you know, and I use this term advisedly and deliberately.

01:01:56.960 It looks kind of fascist to me, me using the military against citizens and moving the military in for these big parades, as you point out.

01:02:06.120 So, interesting times ahead for the United States.

01:02:08.800 And hopefully, as you say, not so interesting times for us.

01:02:12.180 It would be nice to have things a little bit calm and boring for a while up here in Canada, isn't it?

01:02:18.740 Exactly rightly said.

01:02:20.680 So, let's have a peaceful week.

01:02:22.840 Excellent.

01:02:23.420 All right.

01:02:23.720 Thank you, my friend.

01:02:24.560 Have a great day and a great week.

01:02:26.800 Iko, Iko.

01:02:27.380 Iko.

01:02:38.740 Everyone's so crystalline.

01:02:43.760 No voice like yours or mine.

01:02:46.700 They don't care when they walk the line.

01:02:49.760 It's always on my mind.

01:02:52.400 Why would you suck the time right out the back of the bedroom clock?

01:03:00.120 There's everything moved so slow when you're like this.

01:03:05.460 Cutting about what the wind index hit is.

01:03:10.920 Went for a walk with all young.

01:03:14.000 I heard screams at the highest point of this city.

01:03:17.980 I'm sure I did.

01:03:19.240 Yeah, yeah.

01:03:21.760 Where did it come from?

01:03:23.340 High in the flash.

01:03:24.520 Watch out fields and flaws and the rats ain't told back to you.

01:03:27.500 Yeah, yeah.

01:03:28.500 Is this what it's coming to?

01:03:29.860 There's everything moved so slow when you're like this.

01:03:38.120 Methods or programs never gonna solve it.

01:03:42.920 When are the government gonna put the fictions here?

01:03:48.980 Standing on needles where the pathway's clear.

01:03:51.560 Everyone's so crystalline.

01:04:16.820 Hang around the chemists from nine to five.

01:04:26.660 Got no teeth, lost them in fights.

01:04:31.680 Or corrosion hit, now you got no bites.

01:04:35.200 This place pollutes my mind.

01:04:37.740 A smile on my face but I'm dead inside.

01:04:40.460 There's like a dead move so slow when you're like this.

01:04:43.340 Come on over here.

01:04:47.240 I'll tell you where the time went.

01:04:50.860 I know you're gonna pay the big time here.

01:04:56.260 As the world keeps spinning we've all got the fear.

01:04:59.340 Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and it's time for our midweek panel this week in politics.

01:05:05.960 And you know I like to say that we find our listeners wherever they are.

01:05:10.080 Well, we also find our guests wherever they are because we've got a number of guests joining us right now.

01:05:15.740 Dimitri Soudis, he's the former director of communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

01:05:19.320 As well as Tom Parkin, principal at Impact Strategies and Canadian columnist and commentator.

01:05:24.000 As well as Warren Kinsella and CEO, he's the CEO of the Daisy Group.

01:05:28.500 And we find him in his car.

01:05:30.820 To all three of you, I say welcome to the show.

01:05:34.100 Hi there.

01:05:34.940 All right, gentlemen.

01:05:36.020 I want to start with the First Minister's Conference.

01:05:38.420 Because, you know, we've got to take these ministers at their word.

01:05:41.860 I was wondering how it was going to go and how well the Prime Minister was going to acquit himself amongst the provincial leaders.

01:05:49.780 Here is what Doug Ford said about how well the meeting went.

01:05:53.920 Let me tell you, I'm going to be very blunt here.

01:05:57.040 This has been the best meeting we've had in 10 years.

01:05:59.620 Simple.

01:06:00.360 Best meeting I've had in seven years.

01:06:02.660 And there was no expectations that the Prime Minister was going to come out and say,

01:06:06.660 you get that project, you get that project.

01:06:09.120 It was a great discussion.

01:06:10.300 Now, we were all talking.

01:06:13.000 Now it's time to put it into action.

01:06:15.300 All of us are responsible.

01:06:17.060 But I thought it was an incredible meeting.

01:06:19.960 Great communication.

01:06:21.440 Great collaboration.

01:06:22.960 And we all walked out of that room united.

01:06:25.340 And I believe the Ontario Premier also called the Prime Minister Santa Claus.

01:06:30.020 So is this just Doug Ford being Doug Ford?

01:06:34.060 Or has Mark Carney genuinely been impressive this early on the job?

01:06:39.100 Warren, I'll start with you.

01:06:41.300 Mark Carney, get out your checkbook.

01:06:45.200 When the Premiers are being that complimentary, they don't just do that for donuts.

01:06:51.760 They're doing that for a reason.

01:06:54.220 So I presume that Mr. Carney indicated to them a loosening of the federal purse strings for whatever reason, you know, a more liberalized interprovincial trade, a more unanimous front on tariffs and Trump.

01:07:11.500 I don't know what motivation was.

01:07:13.180 I wasn't in the room.

01:07:14.780 I guess none of us were.

01:07:16.980 But that's some of the most positive stuff I've heard coming out of a provincial premier's mouth about a prime minister in a long, long time.

01:07:25.920 And there's usually a price tag attached to it.

01:07:27.820 Demis Rissoudis, these premiers represent all political stripes with different agendas and different priorities and different asks.

01:07:36.340 So for Doug Ford to come out and make that statement, what does it say to you?

01:07:41.460 Well, tens of billions of dollars are about to flow.

01:07:45.500 So that's what it says.

01:07:48.260 And, you know, yesterday, nine out of 10 premiers were there.

01:07:51.820 BC Premier Eby was not.

01:07:54.400 I gather he was on a trade mission somewhere in Asia.

01:07:57.860 But listen, Warren has attended many federal, provincial meetings between premiers and the prime minister, as I have.

01:08:06.920 One thing that prime ministers avoid like the plague is meeting the premiers.

01:08:10.320 Why?

01:08:10.960 Because every time they ask for more money.

01:08:12.940 And what Mark Carney is trying to do, though, what he's trying to do is to get buy in from the premiers on the legislation that he's going to be tabling in the next few days or as late as next week, which would basically change the rules to be able to fast track and to be able to get some big projects going, whether it's natural resources, energy, mining and so on.

01:08:33.700 But when when a premier calls the prime minister, Santa Claus, you have to worry because premiers are seldom and rarely ever content with what the federal government's going to give them.

01:08:48.280 Tom Parkin, are you going to make this unanimous?

01:08:51.360 Yeah, but let's add one more dimension on here is that we really don't know what's being talked about.

01:08:56.620 It's very vague, very general.

01:08:59.500 And for those of us in the, you know, just observing from the outside, and I suspect even from those in the room, there are maybe hopes about what is being talked about, but there's really nothing being talked about.

01:09:11.900 There are national interest projects being talked about, and every premier has forwarded a list of them.

01:09:18.220 Doug Ford thinks that tunneling under the 401 is a national interest project.

01:09:21.680 I don't see it.

01:09:22.700 I think it's maybe a local fantasy, but it's not a national interest project.

01:09:27.220 So what are we even talking about here?

01:09:29.980 Well, I'm glad you said that, Tom.

01:09:31.160 It does seem like a big poker table, and we haven't seen all the players yet.

01:09:34.960 I'm glad you mentioned that, because that dovetails into our next topic.

01:09:38.820 And I'll come to you first on this, Tom.

01:09:40.460 But here's what Mark Carney talked about.

01:09:42.220 He laid out the criteria for fast tracking infrastructure projects.

01:09:45.820 Let's listen to some of the details.

01:09:47.680 We had wide ranging discussions.

01:09:49.440 There was a lot of preparation for this meeting.

01:09:51.680 We discussed a wide range of potential nation-building projects, including, and this is far from exhaustive,

01:09:56.560 the Western and Arctic Corridor, which, amongst other things, connects energy, critical minerals, and trade infrastructure,

01:10:02.940 the Eastern Energy Partnership, critical minerals pathways,

01:10:07.580 which include a range of critical mineral projects that premiers can speak to,

01:10:12.720 the next stage of nuclear, from uranium to SMRs to large-scale nuclear,

01:10:16.120 and a series of infrastructure investments for export diversification from ports to rails to last-mile roads.

01:10:23.240 So he mentioned a lot of things.

01:10:25.040 And look, but he didn't mention pipelines, Tom.

01:10:27.340 Now, this is not a discussion about whether or not you think we should be building pipelines.

01:10:31.000 This is a discussion about the fact that this is a man who is very precise in his language.

01:10:35.880 And for him not to say something is as significant as if he were to say it.

01:10:41.100 So what do you make of that?

01:10:43.400 Yeah, he did later, under questioning from a reporter, talk about, because the report was very blunt,

01:10:48.640 what are you talking about here in terms of the infrastructure as it relates to pipelines?

01:10:52.660 And he did give the answer of, well, yes, I'm talking about pipelines.

01:10:56.440 I'm talking about decarbonized bitumen pipelines.

01:10:59.920 I'm like, what's a decarbonized bitumen?

01:11:04.580 So, you know, it's like the more mysterious it gets as you fall into it a little bit more.

01:11:09.920 So, you know, we also heard Daniel Smith the other day say that if the timelines are shortened,

01:11:21.820 the approval processes are shortened, are attenuated, then a proponent of pipelines will come forward,

01:11:29.180 which is a bit of a mystery in this whole darn thing.

01:11:31.640 Yeah, and Tom, who's paying for this stuff?

01:11:35.240 Is it going to be private sector partners or is it going to be the taxpayers?

01:11:38.260 And that's what I don't understand, Warren, is, you know, when he references SMRs, he just references SMRs.

01:11:44.120 But for some reason, when it comes to pipelines, there is all these, he wordsmiths his way into, I don't know, creating loopholes.

01:11:51.420 I struggle to understand the exceptionalism of pipelines, given how they've dominated our public consciousness and conversations for so long.

01:12:02.100 Well, the political reality, and all of us know it, is pipelines are unpopular in the province of Quebec.

01:12:08.260 The province of Quebec derives its energy from hydro.

01:12:13.420 And so the preoccupation with pipeline energy, energy that comes via a pipeline, is just not there.

01:12:22.140 And so that's a political reality every prime minister needs to deal with.

01:12:26.280 But I'm guessing, like, I don't know for sure what it is, because you're, you know, you guys are right.

01:12:32.360 He is equivocating on the issue.

01:12:35.000 And I find it bizarre, because the one thing that was clear coming out of this election was, you know, everybody has moderated their position on pipelines,

01:12:45.280 including the NDP and the Liberals, and are much more willing to entertain the discussion.

01:12:51.060 So is Premier Legault.

01:12:52.040 Well, that's, I want to bring Dimitri into this, because Dimitri knows Quebec very well.

01:12:56.660 And it does, you're right, Warren, that, but the polling that I saw at the, it was a few weeks ago,

01:13:02.480 but there was finally, we finally had a plurality of Quebecers who were willing to have a conversation

01:13:08.520 and entertain the notion of pipelines going through their territory.

01:13:11.380 So I'm, again, I'll put the question to you, Dimitri, what do you make of the equivocation?

01:13:15.720 So the equivocation, as far as I'm concerned, is that when he refuses or tries to avoid, to use the word pipeline,

01:13:26.900 he's actually speaking to the caucus that he inherited, a Trudeau caucus that basically put up every single barrier you can imagine

01:13:36.340 to ensure that oil and gas stay in the ground.

01:13:41.400 So he's got some challenges.

01:13:43.880 How long, how much longer is Stephen Guilbault going to tolerate this for?

01:13:48.000 He is the minister who brought in the carbon tax.

01:13:51.600 He's the minister who brought in a cap on natural resource production.

01:13:56.180 So, so in terms of pipelines, and I do want to go back to the issue of Quebec,

01:14:00.080 and Warren is quite right when he says that there's reluctance on pipelines in Quebec.

01:14:04.260 Now we have two types of pipelines, pipelines that can bring natural gas to Setzel, for example.

01:14:10.680 You're very familiar with Setzel, Ben.

01:14:12.300 Yes, indeed.

01:14:12.800 By the way, I'm going to need you to tighten up.

01:14:15.500 I need you to finish up in about 20 seconds.

01:14:19.540 Okay, so long story short, there's a path to having a pipeline with natural gas into Quebec.

01:14:25.320 The pathway for oil will probably go through Manitoba into Hudson's Bay.

01:14:28.540 Okay, well, listen, thank you very much for that, and I'm sure we'll be talking more about that in the future.

01:14:34.800 After the break with my panel, we're going to talk about something I haven't seen in a very long time,

01:14:39.640 a liberal government losing a vote in the House of Commons.

01:14:42.860 Don't go anywhere.

01:14:43.500 This is The Ben Mulroney Show.

01:14:45.380 Welcome back to The Ben Mulroney Show, and very pleased to continue my conversation with my midweek This Week in Politics panel.

01:14:53.140 And we've got Dimitri, we've got Warren, and on camera now we've got Tom.

01:14:57.500 So the three of you, I say welcome back.

01:14:59.040 Thanks so much for sticking around.

01:15:01.300 Hey there.

01:15:01.920 How are you?

01:15:02.420 Yeah, I want to talk about, and Dimitri, I'll come to you first.

01:15:05.280 I want to talk about the Air Canada, Air Canada's first ever 2SLGBTQIA plus flight,

01:15:13.900 where everyone on board that was working for Air Canada was a member of that community.

01:15:18.480 They posted it to social media.

01:15:20.480 It was a moment of pride for them.

01:15:22.060 And they got a lot of pushback on social media to the point they had to turn off their comments.

01:15:27.300 It reminded me, maybe unfairly, and you'll let me know, of Bud Light's hiring of a trans influencer

01:15:34.860 to help them sell beer, and they promptly saw their sales drop.

01:15:38.340 And to me, we live in a world where if you're a gay pilot, you can work anywhere.

01:15:44.980 I struggle to see the achievement of excluding anybody else from the flight.

01:15:51.840 And I don't know.

01:15:53.020 It just feels like we've moved past these things.

01:15:55.280 What do you think?

01:15:55.840 Well, there's the question of gender, gender identity, and sexual orientation.

01:16:02.800 My question behind such campaigns is, to what end?

01:16:08.140 Hire people regardless of their sexual orientation.

01:16:11.720 Hire people regardless of their gender identity.

01:16:14.040 Hire people because they are good, because they excel.

01:16:18.140 Meritocracy.

01:16:19.460 I don't know what purpose it serves to do this.

01:16:22.320 It probably creates more of a gap rather than to actually bridge the gap on issues like this.

01:16:30.440 And, Tom, I'll bring you in next because, look, it's not like they hired all these people due to some initiative.

01:16:36.340 All these people already worked for the company.

01:16:38.620 Therein lies the accomplishment.

01:16:41.020 So everything else is, to me, feels like performance for performance sake.

01:16:45.660 I mean, these guys are pilots that rose the ranks of Air Canada.

01:16:48.980 These are flight attendants with tenure, and they've been experienced.

01:16:51.720 So I don't know the point of this at this point.

01:16:55.380 I feel like we as a society are past this, but I'm speaking from my perspective, obviously.

01:17:01.040 Well, I didn't look at the comments.

01:17:03.060 I bet you there were some pretty horrific ones.

01:17:04.460 Of course.

01:17:05.020 Let's be honest about that.

01:17:06.760 Some pretty disgusting comments.

01:17:08.840 Now, having said that, I understand there are also people who are gay and said,

01:17:17.000 like, this is near Canada is kind of a crummy company that charges you a lot of money just

01:17:24.700 to take a bag on the plane now, and they're trying to shine their image on me.

01:17:30.120 Yeah.

01:17:30.380 So that's kind of annoying.

01:17:33.240 Yeah.

01:17:33.540 And then there's kind of just a second part to this.

01:17:36.600 So there's the horrific, there's the performative, and then there's a third little piece, which

01:17:40.960 is really about the kind of the center left audience, the progressives, which is the language

01:17:47.280 that the left uses to talk about opposing racism, opposing hate, is really alienating,

01:17:54.760 to use another alienating word.

01:17:56.080 It comes from so outside the mainstream that it disconnects from people's everyday experience,

01:18:02.120 and it pushes back the cause that it's trying to espouse, which I believe, you know, except

01:18:11.920 for those horrific people, you know, most of us want a Canada where everybody gets to

01:18:17.480 secede on their merits, and nobody has to face discrimination in a job, in a school, or

01:18:22.300 anywhere.

01:18:23.220 Yeah, and Warren, Warren, I think that's where we were.

01:18:27.100 I think that, I thought that's where we were, because like I said, all these guys already

01:18:30.080 worked for Air Canada.

01:18:32.840 I think whenever issues like this come up for me, I always remind myself of what the definition

01:18:40.940 is of woke, you know, because woke is kind of the general term that gets applied to these

01:18:45.820 types of situations.

01:18:46.860 And woke means being alert or aware of prejudice and discrimination and, you know, expressions

01:18:53.280 of bigotry.

01:18:54.540 And all of us, you know, Tom and Dimitri and you, we're all of us, by that definition,

01:19:00.980 are woke.

01:19:01.800 The reason why I think the forces of wokedom got into trouble is not because they were aware

01:19:09.340 of prejudice and concerned about prejudice, but because they were preachy about it and pious.

01:19:14.680 And condescending to people and impatient with people.

01:19:20.460 And then in instances where they found opposition or disagreement, they sought to cancel people.

01:19:26.640 And that's why, you know, an extreme manifestation of that side of the argument is, you know, the

01:19:33.520 mega Donald Trump stuff where they ran a campaign very successfully against this type of approach.

01:19:41.540 So, like, there's nothing wrong being aware of prejudice, nothing wrong with being against

01:19:46.560 prejudice.

01:19:47.000 That's what you should be.

01:19:48.200 It's just, you know, being preachy about it and pious about it.

01:19:51.320 That's what turns people off.

01:19:52.700 Well, we're going to end this conversation with something I just didn't see in the last

01:19:55.880 parliament in any significant way.

01:19:58.340 The liberals suffered their first loss of the new parliament on Monday after a conservative

01:20:03.320 amendment to the throne speech narrowly passed.

01:20:06.600 So the amendment called for a firm commitment from the government to introduce an economic

01:20:10.220 update or budget before the House rises for the traditional summer break.

01:20:13.740 And it passed 166 to 164.

01:20:16.460 There were four liberal MPs who weren't there to cast their vote.

01:20:20.800 Is this significant?

01:20:22.960 I'll start with you, Dimitri.

01:20:24.060 Is it significant or just an embarrassment to Mark Carney?

01:20:28.340 Well, it's both.

01:20:30.600 And honestly, the responsibility lies with the whip, the whip of the government, who

01:20:36.100 is Mark Marison, which, by the way, many liberal MPs tell me that that's probably the MP they

01:20:40.900 dislike the most.

01:20:42.920 If this guy does not learn how to count and learn to count quickly, we may end up in a

01:20:48.800 Joe Clark situation.

01:20:49.800 Because if you lose a vote on an issue of confidence because you don't know how to count

01:20:56.380 because you haven't lined up your MPs.

01:20:58.340 Boy, you're in trouble.

01:20:59.160 So this is strike number one for Mr. Marison.

01:21:02.380 Yeah.

01:21:02.560 I'm not sure Mark Carney gives people more than two strikes.

01:21:05.440 So he better get it right the next time.

01:21:07.120 Yeah.

01:21:07.680 Warren, something tells me this wouldn't have happened under your old boss.

01:21:11.340 No.

01:21:11.720 And it's Mark Garrison, by the way.

01:21:13.420 I understand why Dimitri wants to blank out his name in his mind, because Merrick Garrison

01:21:19.080 is truly the worst member of parliament without qualification.

01:21:25.140 And I was blown away when they gave this guy some kind of responsibility in the House.

01:21:28.900 So I'm not surprised in the slightest that this happened.

01:21:31.420 But it is significant because it's about the budget.

01:21:34.600 Yeah.

01:21:34.740 And they don't have the budget ready.

01:21:36.640 You know, Frankie Bubbles, Minister Champagne, made that clear.

01:21:39.960 They weren't going to have the budget ready for months.

01:21:42.600 So, you know, I don't know if they revote this.

01:21:45.320 I'm not sure what the procedure is, but it's definitely an embarrassment.

01:21:49.340 It's a bit of a black eye.

01:21:51.020 And the guy who wears it is Mark Garrison.

01:21:53.860 And Tom, I got to say, what a difference a few months are, because the NDP that were

01:21:59.080 in the House of Commons, they all voted against the liberals on this.

01:22:02.020 So is this a sign that the love in between Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh, those are long gone

01:22:07.720 days?

01:22:09.020 They are long gone.

01:22:10.000 I think we see the NDP move it to a more purely opposition perspective.

01:22:16.320 And there's also an accountability issue here.

01:22:18.620 I mean, at first, Mr. Carney said we weren't even going to have a budget this year, which

01:22:22.880 was kind of like, we're just going to have an economic statement.

01:22:25.220 That would be it.

01:22:25.760 And then he backpedaled and said, oh, we'll have a budget, but we'll have one in the fall.

01:22:30.060 So, yeah.

01:22:31.680 Well, the final day of fall, just so everybody remembers, is December 20th.

01:22:35.660 Exactly.

01:22:36.020 So there is a significant issue, and that is offensive to Parliament.

01:22:40.280 And this is a tweet back at the government, Mr. Carney, that don't be so high-handed.

01:22:45.060 Nobody, you know, I know you didn't get elected before you came premier, and maybe you think,

01:22:48.880 you know, all your life has been a dream, but you're not the executive vice president

01:22:55.980 of Brookfield anymore, or sorry, the executive chairman.

01:22:59.600 You're the prime minister, and you're accountable to Parliament.

01:23:02.360 Well, I tell you, when I saw this news today, I just didn't expect it.

01:23:07.380 It kind of hit me in the face because I was so used to the liberal governments finding a way to get

01:23:12.560 their votes passed just as a matter of course.

01:23:16.740 And so for a first week, a first couple of weeks in the House of Commons, not necessarily the best

01:23:22.180 start for them.

01:23:22.920 Hey, to all three of you, to Dimitri Soudis, to Tom Park, and to Warren Kinsella, thank you so much

01:23:27.100 for joining me.

01:23:28.280 I mean, if this is a taste of what we can expect over the next Parliament, it's going to be a

01:23:32.760 doozy.

01:23:33.120 I'm going to be relying on you guys for your assessment of the facts on the ground.

01:23:36.280 So thanks so much.

01:23:37.000 Enjoy the rest of your day.

01:23:37.960 Thanks, you guys.

01:23:39.860 Wiping my eyes of sleeping

01:23:41.860 Drinking yesterday morning's coffee

01:23:48.920 Slam my head against the wall

01:23:54.840 Put the same black jeans on

01:23:57.660 Wear a hat so you can't see my hair

01:24:02.060 Maybe I won't die this night

01:24:07.580 Maybe I'll be fine this time

01:24:14.420 Maybe I'm my own greatest fear

01:24:17.480 Maybe I'm just scared to admit that

01:24:21.460 I might not be as dark as I think

01:24:24.320 Maybe I'm not the person

01:24:27.180 That I never wanted to be

01:24:30.640 Maybe I'm my own greatest fear

01:24:33.720 Maybe I'm just scared to admit that

01:24:37.560 I might not be as dark as I think

01:24:40.560 I might not be as dark as I think

01:24:55.400 So here's the thing

01:24:56.520 I'm doing fine

01:24:58.260 I know that I'm not worth your time

01:25:01.460 You need a change

01:25:02.360 You need a change

01:25:03.280 I'm still the same

01:25:05.060 Take everything but my name

01:25:08.300 Maybe I'm just scared to admit that

01:25:23.140 Maybe I'm just scared to admit that

01:25:26.140 I might not be as dark as I think

01:25:28.980 I might not be as dark as I think

01:25:32.980 Maybe I might not be as dark as I think

01:25:46.820 I might not be as dark as I think

01:25:48.820 Maybe I'm my own greatest fear

01:26:14.220 Maybe I'm just scared to admit that

01:26:17.820 I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:21.160 Maybe I'm not the person

01:26:24.080 That I never wanted to be

01:26:27.180 Maybe I'm my own greatest fear

01:26:30.400 Maybe I'm just scared to admit that

01:26:34.480 I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:37.420 I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:47.820 Maybe I'm not the person

01:26:50.320 I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:51.340 Maybe I'm just scared to admit that

01:26:52.460 A little bit but it's when stuff

01:26:53.220 Maybe I might not be as dark as I've been

01:26:54.160 I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:54.640 Maybe I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:55.080 But I don't miss view

01:26:55.960 Maybe I don't have to be as dark as I think

01:26:56.640 I know that I'm just careful

01:26:56.900 Maybe I might not be as dark as you

01:26:57.920 Maybe I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:58.580 Maybe I know that I might not be as dark as I think

01:26:59.420 And if I'm in my mind

01:27:00.580 Maybe I can have to admit that

01:27:01.980 Maybe I might not be as dark as

01:27:03.180 Maybe I might be as dark as I think

01:27:04.320 Maybe I may not be as dark as perhaps I'm a

01:27:04.480 But I might not be as dark as how it might be as dark as I think

kinsellacast - June 08, 2025

KINSELLACAST 365： Carney a closet conservative？ With Lilley, Mraz, Belanger, Kheiriddin, Mulroney - plus Brit-ish bands with guitars and accents

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