kinsellacast - KINSELLACAST 369： Music by haters - plus smart talk with Lilley, Batra, Pierson, Mulroney - and tunes from Sleater-Kenney, Bratakus, The Chisel, Jog, Homefront, Hot Chip

00:00:00.000 it's the Kinsella cast starring Warren Kinsella

00:00:08.680 hey it's Warren welcome to the Kinsella cast it is summertime it is July I'm on kind of a summer

00:00:23.400 schedule so shows may be a little bit shorter during the next few weeks I don't know we'll

00:00:29.780 have to wait and see won't we but I've got a good one for you this week I've got Lily

00:00:34.020 I've got Mulroney Pearson Batra John Mraz and I are taking a break this week because there's not

00:00:42.320 actually a ton of activity at the level of international affairs but there's lots of

00:00:50.420 other stuff to discuss domestically and even some stuff about music I've got good music

00:00:55.040 got Bradicus two sisters the Quinn sisters from Scotland with their song final girl got the

00:01:01.940 chisel it's kind of a London oy hardcore kind of band from their album what a fucking nightmare

00:01:09.960 it's very subtle it's a lot of ballads on that one with their song blood sucker got this band called

00:01:16.020 jog with a song called dirt ball and it's kind of new wavy and I dig that sometimes I can't find

00:01:24.780 anything about this band to tell you guys about so if anybody can find out who jog is send me a

00:01:31.340 note because they sound pretty good but I just can't find anything about them online we've got

00:01:38.260 hot chip they're a UK synth band who's been around for 25 years their song flutes I'm going to try to

00:01:45.400 get to that it's a longer track I'll put it at the end home front Edmonton boys with their song

00:01:53.760 faded state which anybody in Alberta would know all about these days and way to go way to go home

00:02:01.600 front and then I've got to start things off Slater Kenny with their song jumpers from 20 2005 I think

00:02:12.680 god it's that old Tucker and Brownstein to me are the best vocalists in punk rock there's nobody better

00:02:20.780 so some great music and great talk and I want to talk about music to start free free Palestine

00:02:28.980 death death to the IDF a whole bunch of people chanted that and later on Israel or war criminals

00:02:35.260 from a group that waved around a Hezbollah flag on stage those things didn't happen in Iran they

00:02:41.860 happened in what is probably the biggest music festival in the world Glastonbury there was lots

00:02:48.060 of hatred directed at Israel at Glastonbury in the UK last weekend the Libertines

00:02:53.540 Emil and the Sniffers plenty of others angrily denounced Israel and colonialism so on

00:02:59.740 and they're entitled to do that I guess it made things uncomfortable for many of the 200,000

00:03:08.000 people in attendance at the five-day festival but it arguably didn't break any criminal laws

00:03:14.320 however the waving the Hezbollah flag allegedly by a member of the Irish rap trio kneecap has had

00:03:21.480 resulted in one member being charged with a terror defense and the death death to the IDF chant

00:03:28.760 which has now been taken up by groups of course in North America that was done by Bob Villain's

00:03:34.740 front man Pascal Robinson Foster I love the hyphenated name for this social justice warrior that's now

00:03:42.400 being investigated by the Somerset police and Robinson Foster he didn't think it was a big deal he

00:03:48.780 likened it to his daughter lobbying for better lunches for her school anyway the organizers at

00:03:54.200 Glastonbury issued a statement saying there's no place at Glastonbury for anti-semitism but there was

00:04:00.860 clearly because you know they were the ones who invited kneecap and Bob Villain in the first place

00:04:05.520 they were the ones who knowingly platformed hate and only had denounced it when the cops got involved

00:04:11.580 and they were the ones who allowed their event to devolve into a modern-age Nuremberg rally

00:04:16.660 but with a rock soundtrack it is depressing it's maddening and for many Jews it's frightening

00:04:24.300 and for fans of music too it presents a dilemma guys like me for example like as some of you may know

00:04:33.260 I have featured Bob Villain on my podcast previously quite a few times so too Emil and the Sniffers and

00:04:40.700 Libertines I liked their music past tense but what what are you supposed to do when you find out

00:04:48.020 as I did that a favored musical act espouses hate and division in the case of Bob Villain I wrote to

00:04:55.240 him here's what I said hey guys I played your music on my show and promoted you for years no more

00:05:00.280 you've revealed yourself to be as bad as the neo-nazis who profess to oppose your Jew haters just

00:05:06.480 like them I plan to say so as well in my book that's coming out later this year now you'll say

00:05:11.900 you don't care because I'm just one of many people who intend to devote ourselves to ensuring everyone

00:05:17.600 knows you're no better than a national front skinhead end quote I then told them to go fuck themselves

00:05:22.840 which certainly communicated what I was feeling I have done that sort of thing before because art and

00:05:31.000 music is important to me so for when the lead singer of the punk supergroup anti-flag was credibly

00:05:37.640 accused by several women of rape I burned all of their records and merch and he fled the United States

00:05:44.960 when a drunken member of the Minneapolis punk outfit off with their heads dragged a BC woman behind their

00:05:53.340 tour van for five blocks leaving her with life altering injuries I burned their stuff too but why

00:06:01.200 because the band issued a statement saying it was unfortunate their tour had to be suspended

00:06:06.740 not a word about the 24 year old woman whose life they destroyed other examples John Lennon saying I used

00:06:15.280 to be cruel to my woman I beat her that changed a lot for me Elvis Costello calling Ray Charles the n-word

00:06:23.080 Eric Clapton saying this is a quote stop Britain from becoming a black colony get the foreigners out get

00:06:30.600 the wogs out that's the word he used get the coons out he used that word too keep Britain white I used

00:06:37.040 to be into dope now I am I'm into racism end quote and of course Pink Floyd's Roger Waters who call whose

00:06:43.180 calls for Jews to go back to Eastern Europe or wherever you came from quote unquote anyway lots of examples

00:06:50.760 unfortunately I stopped listening to all of them and their bands and I stopped giving them my money

00:06:56.060 and I threw out their records because the nature of fame because of the liberties we grant to

00:07:02.320 celebrities they often get away with murder sometimes literally like OJ Simpson they get away with

00:07:08.980 anti-semitism and racism and violent misogyny so what are we the powerless consumers to do well we can

00:07:16.980 organize petitions and boycotts but those aren't easy to put together we can call for them to be

00:07:22.100 charged with promoting hate but that almost never happens to the A-listers so just do this stop consuming

00:07:29.960 their stuff stop giving them your money stop giving them precious minutes of your life and occasionally

00:07:37.840 send them a note too like I did and tell them to go fuck themselves you'll feel better I did

00:07:44.380 I spend the afternoon in cars I sit in traffic jams for hours don't push me I am not okay

00:08:01.500 the sky is blue most every day the lemons grow like tumors they are tiny suns infuse with suns

00:08:15.500 this day

00:08:18.500 logo

00:08:19.500 local

00:08:22.500 local

00:08:25.500 local

00:08:29.380 local

00:08:32.500 local

00:08:34.500 local

00:08:37.500 local

00:08:39.500 I was the summer that I spent

00:08:45.500 The only substance is the fog

00:08:57.840 And it hides all that has gone wrong

00:09:00.860 Can't see a thing inside the maze

00:09:04.860 There is a bridge adorned in vain

00:09:11.060 The golden spine of engineering

00:09:14.060 Whose back is heavy with my weight

00:09:18.120 Oh, we are the clouds

00:09:25.320 And the golden state

00:09:31.900 The cold is winter

00:09:36.500 When I am the sun

00:09:39.700 Was the summer that I spent

00:09:45.360 The silver is so hard

00:10:07.720 The silver is so skin

00:10:09.260 Drink your last drink

00:10:10.960 Sing your last song

00:10:13.860 About the beginning

00:10:15.760 Sing it out loud

00:10:17.060 So the pillow is here

00:10:18.760 Let's go

00:10:19.560 It's still the sad day

00:10:33.360 It's still the sad year

00:10:35.060 Hope your last hope

00:10:36.600 Feel our fear

00:10:38.060 You're not the only one

00:10:41.060 You're not the only one

00:10:43.260 You're not the only one

00:10:44.160 Let's go

00:10:44.660 Let's go!

00:11:14.660 Let's go!

00:11:44.660 That is what the longest wait.

00:11:47.420 That is what the longest wait.

00:11:50.600 That is what the longest wait.

00:11:53.840 That is what the longest wait.

00:11:59.720 And we're back.

00:12:01.180 We're back with Brian Nilley.

00:12:02.600 And I'm jealous of Brian because he's on the beautiful, majestic, eternal prairies from whence I came.

00:12:10.240 And I had a great time in the Calgary Stampede, which is sometimes hard to do, but Brian did.

00:12:18.040 So how was it?

00:12:20.000 What were your impressions?

00:12:21.060 This is your first stampede, wasn't it?

00:12:23.540 First time at the Stampede.

00:12:25.020 I couldn't tell you how many times I've been in Calgary, but never did the Stampede.

00:12:29.980 And look, you can do the Stampede in different ways.

00:12:34.080 You can do it like a local or like a Torontonian.

00:12:37.600 You could honestly just go there.

00:12:39.560 And every lobbyist and, you know, politician and wannabe politician is showing up to go to receptions and parties.

00:12:48.580 If you do that, you will mostly see and interact with people from Toronto and Ottawa.

00:12:53.040 But you can also go to local events, you know, make sure you connect with local people.

00:12:58.940 I did a mix of both because, you know, business-wise, you got to show up at some of these events.

00:13:05.880 And but it was good to connect with old friends.

00:13:08.700 I hadn't seen in Calgary in a long time.

00:13:10.780 Good to speak to politicos out here that I don't get to see face to face.

00:13:15.180 But also, like, we went to the Grandstand show, which is, you know, Carolyn Dawn Johnson, you know, a country singer from the 90s here in Canada.

00:13:26.020 She put on a show.

00:13:27.920 There was, like, Carnie Axel on Cider, you know, great singers and dancers doing a variety show and then huge fireworks.

00:13:34.480 This after, I've got to tell you this just quickly, because I'm waiting for the person to write that the Calgary Stampede is the symbol of white supremacy.

00:13:44.160 Which will just show me that they've never been there.

00:13:48.380 The final, on Friday night, the final portion of the evening rodeo were the relay races.

00:13:59.300 I think every rider in the relay races was Indigenous.

00:14:03.640 And they do it Native style.

00:14:05.860 They go out there and you start off and you do a full lap of the horse racetrack and you're riding bareback.

00:14:13.180 You might have reins, but you're riding bareback.

00:14:15.620 And you come in at full speed at the end of that first lap, jump off your horse, jump on the second horse and do another lap.

00:14:23.680 And we got the last two heats of that.

00:14:26.300 Did not catch the finale, which would have been yesterday, I guess.

00:14:30.440 But that's the most exciting horse racing I've ever seen.

00:14:34.780 Then took in the fireworks.

00:14:36.320 You know, so we did the local stuff.

00:14:37.560 We did everything else.

00:14:38.360 It is a good time.

00:14:39.600 It is the greatest outdoor show on Earth.

00:14:41.700 It is indeed.

00:14:42.960 It is indeed.

00:14:43.720 Although, don't go on the midway.

00:14:47.640 Don't go on any of the rides because I can attest to you, having worked at the Stampede as a teenager, most of the rides are being run by stoned 15-year-olds who don't know what they're doing.

00:14:59.380 It's risky enterprise.

00:15:01.560 I consider that with every midway.

00:15:04.180 That's true.

00:15:04.440 It's not permanent.

00:15:06.720 It's, you know, there's a carny back there, not the prime minister.

00:15:10.160 Yeah.

00:15:10.500 It's a good job if you're a teenager.

00:15:12.440 So, well, let's talk about prime ministers and leaders of the opposition.

00:15:16.640 Both of them were there.

00:15:17.680 It's a rite of passage in the Canadian summertime.

00:15:22.300 Political leaders head out to the Stampede and they put on cowboy hats, sometimes backwards, and attempt to flip pancakes and all that kind of stuff.

00:15:32.740 So, what were your impressions of the two different leaders?

00:15:35.920 Carney first.

00:15:36.580 So, Justin Trudeau did not show up last year.

00:15:42.260 He may not have shown up the year before that.

00:15:44.620 He used to show up, even though he knew he was hated.

00:15:48.360 And he would kind of lean into it and revel in it and make an arse of himself.

00:15:54.980 Carney showed up on Friday night, did part of the opening ceremonies.

00:16:00.760 I can tell you most people there didn't know he was there.

00:16:04.380 I can tell you that because I was there and didn't see him personally.

00:16:10.020 I talked to people who were there.

00:16:11.760 I, you know, saw the video images.

00:16:13.700 He showed up in, you know, you can't say he was in a business suit because he didn't have a tie on.

00:16:19.360 An Israeli business suit because in Israel nobody wears a tie except the prime minister on TV.

00:16:25.220 You know, so he's there in a suit and a jacket and a hat.

00:16:28.880 He looked better in the hat than I thought.

00:16:31.880 You know, he's got a, he's a slim guy.

00:16:33.920 He's got a small head.

00:16:34.900 And I had, you know, people saying to me, you know, with that look, he's going to look like Woody from Toy Story.

00:16:41.340 He pulled, not everyone can pull off the hat, right?

00:16:44.520 He did.

00:16:45.560 He did.

00:16:46.180 We've seen Pierre Pauly in the hat before.

00:16:47.920 We knew he could do it.

00:16:48.760 He, he wandered the crowd for a good while.

00:16:53.000 He got booed at the grandstand.

00:16:55.620 The announcer said, I heard woo.

00:16:57.600 I heard woo.

00:16:58.240 Kind of a, you know, let's go Brandon moment.

00:17:01.620 Not as bad, but let's go Brandon type of moment.

00:17:05.100 But, you know, he also interacted well with the crowd according to the CP pool reporter who was there.

00:17:10.120 I talked to friends who are politicos, conservative politicos who ran into him and said he was doing fine.

00:17:17.760 You know, so it's a bit of a mix for him.

00:17:20.320 It's just good that he showed up, I'm sure.

00:17:23.920 He, he needs to work on his pancake flipping because he smashed two of them to death on video.

00:17:30.780 You know, and he was still self-deprecating his humor.

00:17:33.460 Um, but he's still in that phase where people are giving him benefit of the doubt, including a lot of conservative politicos that I'm talking to out here who are saying, you know, similar things to what Alberta premier Daniel Smith has said.

00:17:47.240 Well, he's saying the right things.

00:17:48.740 Now everyone's waiting to see, does he do the right things?

00:17:51.080 And, you know, uh, to quote the, uh, what's that great movie with, uh, um, Rob, uh, Rob Lowe and, and the other Belushi brother.

00:18:01.520 Is she a pro at this point?

00:18:03.420 We don't know.

00:18:04.540 Uh, about last night from the eighties.

00:18:07.220 That's a, an obscure reference for you.

00:18:09.100 You know, he's saying the right things, but at this point we don't know.

00:18:12.860 Pierre Polyev.

00:18:13.720 People are being very kind to him out in Calgary and in Saskatoon where I am now.

00:18:19.700 Pierre Polyev.

00:18:21.260 So, uh, he went to a packed event.

00:18:25.480 I'd been in that same music hall the night before for one of the concerts and it can hold.

00:18:30.980 Um, thousands of people.

00:18:33.740 And, you know, if you can watch the video that others have posted, you can watch the video that Polyev posted.

00:18:39.680 He got great cheers, uh, from a crowd, crowd of thousands, mostly young people.

00:18:47.540 Uh, they're saying, don't stop believing Adam while he's up on stage after he's been introduced.

00:18:53.940 Um, he did get some jeers while he was riding in the, uh, the parade, uh, which is fantastic.

00:19:02.200 Take in the parade.

00:19:02.900 If you come to the stampede, uh, take the C train downtown or book a hotel downtown and, and take in the parade.

00:19:09.180 He, he, he was in the parade on horseback looking very natural.

00:19:13.940 Um, they're, they're, you know, some people boot them from there.

00:19:18.740 One person yelled out, you don't even have a job.

00:19:21.300 Um, but it wasn't massive, nasty reaction in public.

00:19:27.400 Pierre's problem is who you're talking to in the hallways and the bars and the receptions.

00:19:33.920 Tell us, tell us the gossip.

00:19:35.200 There's a growing sense of unease about them.

00:19:40.860 There's a growing anger that wasn't there just after the election.

00:19:44.200 In some cases, talking to the same people, because right now they're looking and saying,

00:19:49.740 do we have a path out?

00:19:52.720 Um, you know, I heard them called nasty names by people who are, you know, rock rib conservatives,

00:19:59.920 who are the types of people who are, or have been on, uh, electoral district associations.

00:20:07.840 They've been on the writing boards.

00:20:09.360 They've, you know, done a lot of fundraising.

00:20:11.480 They've been organizers for the party out here or in other parts of the country.

00:20:15.980 And they just happen to be out here.

00:20:18.640 So, yeah, but, you know, even among Calgary conservatives, bitterness, angry, uh, unease, not universal.

00:20:28.720 I'm not saying it's universal that, you know, everyone wants them out, but a lot of talk of, okay,

00:20:34.320 we've got the, uh, the leadership review coming up and it's in January and it's in Calgary.

00:20:42.640 Oh, well, he had to call it in Calgary because he wouldn't have survived it in Toronto.

00:20:47.380 Some people were saying, um, well, he'll, he'll survive the leadership review, but something will happen after that.

00:20:54.060 Uh, you know, just first time I was hearing people openly talk about, he won't be leader for the next election.

00:21:00.280 Unless of course, as my friend, Mark McQueen puts forward, uh, the liberals call a snap election next June saying they need a mandate to go up against Donald Trump.

00:21:10.020 Um, um, and take advantage of the fact that there's still in a honeymoon polling phase, but if it goes for several years, plenty of people saying they don't see how he's leader others saying they're just bitter at the way things turned out.

00:21:24.220 It's a very different vibe than talking to, again, some of the same people just days after the election.

00:21:31.120 It's politics has changed, hasn't it?

00:21:33.260 You know, you got Dalton McGinty lost and was given a second chance, won a majority.

00:21:38.380 Uh, Stephen Harper lost, was given a chance, won minorities and then a majority.

00:21:43.700 But now these days it feels like for a lot of these leaders, fairly or unfairly, it's like it's one and done.

00:21:50.560 Like if you don't make it, they kick you out.

00:21:52.740 Um, yeah.

00:21:54.120 And, and the two, you just mentioned there were both very successful after at the second, uh, go around.

00:22:01.600 Um, you know, McGinty learned an awful lot between the 97 and was it 97 or 98?

00:22:08.620 Uh, the election.

00:22:10.680 Yeah.

00:22:11.620 It was, uh, we, 2000, so it was 90, 99.

00:22:15.780 Right.

00:22:16.360 Yeah.

00:22:16.500 Okay.

00:22:16.720 Between the two elections, he learned an awful lot and grew as a campaigner.

00:22:21.960 Stephen Harper as well.

00:22:24.040 Now I heard, and the Harper example came up in one conversation and said, yeah, but the difference is Harper's not a loser.

00:22:31.900 I said, but he lost in 2004.

00:22:34.620 And this is from someone who had supported Polyev before.

00:22:36.600 And they said, well, it's different now.

00:22:39.820 You know, I'm not sure I see it.

00:22:41.720 I remember first getting to parliament Hill.

00:22:44.620 My career took me there in March, 2005.

00:22:48.040 And of course, uh, 10 months later, Harper would be prime minister, but I remember the senior folks saying this guy's a loser and will never be PM.

00:22:57.960 Um, you never know what's going to happen in politics.

00:23:00.820 It's why it's fascinating to me.

00:23:02.520 That's why it's fun.

00:23:03.880 It's, it's like football.

00:23:05.340 Any given Sunday, things can change.

00:23:07.980 Um, you know, we, we, we didn't see, uh, Carney's path being exactly what it was six months ago and a whole host of events change.

00:23:20.240 So, you know, I'm not saying that, that Polyev is, is done for or anything like that, but he's in trouble, far more trouble than he was, um, you know, in, in the weeks after the campaign, uh, and it's with his own people.

00:23:35.440 It's not with outsiders.

00:23:37.040 It's not with the media.

00:23:38.620 It's not the liberals.

00:23:40.420 These are his people.

00:23:42.720 And they're just saying, can he ever win against Mark Carney?

00:23:48.680 And do we let them wait around long enough until after the next election?

00:23:53.900 Now, is there someone out there that is, you know, an obvious person to take over if they do decide to get rid of Polyev?

00:24:01.560 I don't see them.

00:24:03.140 Um, you know, sure names like Doug Ford and Carolyn Mulroney from Ontario have been floated.

00:24:10.860 Uh, but you know, are either of those realistic?

00:24:16.140 Ford doesn't speak French.

00:24:17.660 Um, while Rooney doesn't like talking to the media, uh, probably less than Polyev does.

00:24:22.920 Yep.

00:24:23.840 Yep.

00:24:24.740 And it's not because she hates them.

00:24:26.080 She just doesn't like the act of holding the news conference, right?

00:24:29.920 Yeah.

00:24:30.160 She doesn't, she doesn't have the schmooze factor that her, her dad did, or actually, you know, a couple of her brothers do.

00:24:37.860 Um, you know, she's a serious person.

00:24:40.040 That's something you can develop, but if you don't like doing it and it's a big part of the job, that's a question mark.

00:24:47.660 But, you know, who else is out there on the horizon waiting?

00:24:52.120 Is it somebody in the front bench?

00:24:54.040 Is it a Melissa Lantzman?

00:24:55.780 Um, you know, that's the only name on the front bench I'm thinking of right now that would do it.

00:25:01.300 And, you know, is she too close to Polyev if the public doesn't want Polyev?

00:25:07.600 Yeah.

00:25:08.280 It's, um, well, it's going to make for many interesting Sunday discussions for you and I, but in the meantime, you should go and enjoy the beautiful Prairie Summer.

00:25:18.940 And, and thank you, sir, for filling us in on all the gossip from the Stampede and places beyond.

00:25:26.980 Thank you.

00:25:28.720 Thank you.

00:25:29.400 Thank you.

00:25:30.180 Thank you.

00:25:50.440 Free, my God's important

00:26:02.700 Whatever you offer, she doesn't want it

00:26:08.740 Give, I don't like it, but you'll see

00:26:13.580 These are the rules that I'm supposed to be

00:26:18.340 We are not your final goals

00:26:22.820 We will follow all your rules

00:26:25.420 We are not your final goals

00:26:27.920 We will follow all your rules

00:26:30.960 Die, not to unspoken

00:26:43.980 Not that it's a demon, not too boring

00:26:48.460 For all these rules, you might make it

00:26:54.120 Let's go by and you can't take it

00:26:59.260 We are not your final goals

00:27:03.300 We will follow all your rules

00:27:05.840 We are not your final goals

00:27:08.340 We will follow all your rules

00:27:11.380 We are not your final goals

00:27:21.960 We are not your final goals

00:27:23.900 We are not your final goals

00:27:33.620 We are not your final goals

00:27:34.620 We are not your final goals

00:27:38.480 We are sick in your control

00:27:41.140 We are not your final groups

00:27:43.700 We will follow all your rules

00:27:46.240 We are not your final groups

00:27:48.740 We will follow all your rules

00:27:55.260 We will follow all your rules

00:27:56.340 We are not your final groups

00:27:58.840 We will follow all your rules

00:28:08.480 welcome back to the ben mulrooney show and i want to say thank you and welcome to anybody listening

00:28:19.400 on radio on podcast platforms on streaming apps or if you're watching us on youtube we take you

00:28:25.400 where we get you and we say thank you and welcome to the ben mulrooney show and of course it's

00:28:30.220 friday which means it's time for a roundup of some of the big political stories of the week

00:28:34.520 very pleased to be joined this week by chris chapin political commentator as well as managing

00:28:38.660 principal at upstream strategy and of course warren kinsella stalwart here at the ben mulrooney show

00:28:43.760 former special advisor to joe chretien and ceo of the daisy group gentlemen welcome to the show

00:28:48.500 morning so one of the uh one of the greatest uh frustrations that i had with uh with the trudeau

00:28:57.260 liberals was the promise in 2015 of evidence-based policy because what that means is in the face of

00:29:02.960 changing evidence you change the policy and and if if you believed that we were going to get that

00:29:08.720 then then you in retrospect you look back and say well there's a ton of policies that that came into

00:29:15.080 uh into effect that were not evidence-based in fact they were ideologically driven and so it really was

00:29:21.540 the wool being pulled over our eyes i'm hoping for a return for for that for that expression actually

00:29:27.880 mean something under uh this new prime minister because the changing facts on the ground as it

00:29:33.420 relates to the ev mandate that dictated by 2035 every single car that was sold in this country

00:29:38.160 would be a zero emission vehicle given the fact that the market has softened given the fact that

00:29:43.700 the the cars are too expensive given the the world that we're living in we're never going to hit those

00:29:48.360 targets so why have that mandate in place so the question i have for you we'll start with you chris is

00:29:53.760 what's what's mark carney going to do with this ev mandate i suspect ben in due time we'll see that

00:30:01.560 that target stretched out i i'm not sure i'm confident the liberals are going to abandon it anytime soon

00:30:07.860 because as you know uh i don't think there's a party that's more ideologically driven than them when

00:30:12.980 they when they get their heels dug in and so i suspect we'll see that 100 target maybe punted to 2045

00:30:18.800 so they can still call it a win yeah um but they're they have to recognize that the market's just not

00:30:24.520 there and with everything going on in the world um you know this is a party that for political reasons

00:30:30.580 walked back the carbon tax that was supposed to be the single most important piece of policy they've

00:30:34.300 ever introduced uh so i think it's only a matter of time before we see this at least punted back and

00:30:38.700 then perhaps abandoned altogether warren i don't think there is uh there are a whole lot of canadians

00:30:42.920 who believe that the the future of of the of the automotive industry isn't electrified uh and and

00:30:50.120 by the way there are a ton of cars out there a ton of electric vehicles out there that i would love to

00:30:54.200 get my hands on if only i had the disposable income uh but but that future is not today and given the fact

00:31:00.780 that the americans are are shying away from the ambitions that they had on the electrical automotive

00:31:06.860 uh industry i mean if if if if they deprioritize that then that is surely going to affect our ability

00:31:13.560 uh given how integrated our automotive industry is it's going to impact us regardless of a mandate

00:31:19.260 yeah i mean there's a few problems here with with the evs uh firstly as you pointed out they're way

00:31:28.060 more expensive than internal combustion engines um they getting charging locations is really tough to do

00:31:36.740 especially in places like where i live in rural canada they're just not available and you've got to

00:31:43.720 come up with a lot of dough to charge it yourself um the subsidy is gone um and so as a result the

00:31:51.660 amount of number of people are buying these vehicles has dropped dramatically and then just a few days ago

00:31:57.920 the the vehicle manufacturer association executives met with the prime minister and said please

00:32:04.260 please please stop adding to our burden here right because there's been a collapse in the market and

00:32:11.180 you're just going to make it worse with uh you know your ev mandate so there's all kinds of things wrong

00:32:17.960 and you know hopefully uh the prime minister listens this is something that came out of the trudeau era

00:32:24.580 carney has shown his willingness to walk away or abandon a lot of those decisions and hopefully that's the

00:32:30.960 case here too because it just too much of this doesn't work in the way that they had hoped well

00:32:35.780 yeah because also having that mandate in place uh forces these car companies to plan as if this is

00:32:41.920 their reality and you can't plan for the future they can't make those long-term projections those

00:32:47.140 long-term investments in what they need to be investing in if this mandate is still on the books

00:32:51.760 so that to me is a reason if they are going to make a change whether it's killing the mandate

00:32:57.020 altogether or simply changing the target date of that mandate which i think i agree with chris is

00:33:02.040 probably going to be the compromise here but they have to do it sooner rather than later because

00:33:06.800 you can't these companies can't just wake up one day and and switch from electric uh to internal

00:33:12.580 combustion engine they have to have the time to pivot uh but i want to move on to our next story

00:33:17.460 which is defense spending and people like myself very happy to hear that this government is taking

00:33:23.480 seriously what we have taken what we've been very unserious about for far too long preceding

00:33:28.660 justin trudeau which is investment in our military and our veterans and uh however that comes at a cost

00:33:35.960 and uh you know last week uh i think the number that we were talking about was 150 billion dollars over

00:33:41.940 the course of many many years but now the the uh the actual numbers are coming in and it's about

00:33:46.480 it's it's over 70 billion dollars over the course of four years that's on top of the 130 billion

00:33:52.100 in additional spending that mark carney promised on the election campaign i don't know where we find

00:33:58.180 this money uh at warren like he is a smart guy uh he's he's he's he came back he came into politics

00:34:05.700 because he felt he was up to the challenge of writing the canadian ship but this this seems like

00:34:12.200 an enormous an enormous hole to dig ourselves out of financially yeah i'm with you i mean i i come from

00:34:20.700 military family and i've always favored this and we need to in an increasingly dangerous world you know

00:34:27.200 we need to be doing our fair share and going back for many decades over successive governments of all

00:34:34.380 stripes we've not been doing that so it looks like we're going to meet two percent finally but now

00:34:40.380 they're talking about five percent and i'm with you it's like okay well where does the dough come from

00:34:44.880 if you dig into it there's a bit of funny business taking place so my understanding is to be credited

00:34:51.560 you know towards the two percent or the five percent if you build for example then a bridge

00:34:57.520 you know that leads to a canadian forces base you get credited against your percentage there i'm not

00:35:05.340 sure that's people would consider that actual defense spending but you know better wages for the men and

00:35:11.340 women in uniform who uh work to protect us support that better equipment support that but some of it

00:35:17.840 i i think it's a little loosey-goosey and i i guess the devil's in the details yeah yeah chris

00:35:22.780 most conservatives should be on board with this uh increase in in funding for our military i know i am

00:35:29.500 uh but uh but again like the the the priorities that were laid out in the election were already

00:35:35.500 to the tune of 130 billion dollars the rubber is going to meet the road or or rather you know an

00:35:41.620 immovable an immovable object is going to hit an unstoppable force and and i don't know what's

00:35:46.780 going to happen but but this this prime minister who's riding very high on the hog in terms of of

00:35:52.320 popular support right now i don't know if those numbers stay as high when he finally has to come out

00:35:58.220 and say you know what some tough choices have to be made and by the way not for nothing warren your

00:36:02.620 your boss had to make some of those tough choices back in the 90s uh and he weathered that storm so

00:36:08.180 maybe there is a way for him to thread this needle chris yeah i there's a reason ben we haven't seen

00:36:15.580 these commitments hit for decades because it requires tough choices at the end of the day

00:36:20.580 budgeting and politics and in governance is is about making tough choices and deciding how you spend tax

00:36:26.880 dollars right and so when you go from you know the measly one 1.2 percent we were at

00:36:32.420 to committing to spending two or five percent um you can't make that revenue appear overnight and so

00:36:38.920 we've either got to find ways to drastically increase revenues or we're going to run you know

00:36:44.600 massive deficits which i think this story by the cd how institute alluded to um because we simply don't

00:36:50.180 have that money and so that's where if we want to get to a balanced budget or we want to you know run

00:36:55.300 an efficient economy uh tough choices are going to be have to be have to be made and i think that's going

00:37:00.060 to you know certainly wear on on the prime minister warren about 30 seconds give me what your boss did

00:37:05.460 to to deliver tough news to canadians and yet still remain uh viable in successive elections

00:37:12.640 he was straight with them and um you know we had a mandate for it in the red book in 1993 he said

00:37:21.440 um we're on our way to third world uh economics in this country you know and we needed to make some

00:37:28.120 desperate and significant changes and so he had a mandate to do that the prime minister prime

00:37:34.900 minister carney's problem is he was less clear about that in the election campaign that some big

00:37:40.420 cuts might be necessary or some big changes and so that's going to create a political problem for him

00:37:45.800 i think all right well don't go anywhere when we come back we're going to talk about a different

00:37:49.660 kind of political problem could there be a third party rise in the united states and could that come

00:37:55.100 uh with a bankrolled by elon musk that's coming up next on the ben mulroney show

00:37:59.840 happy friday and welcome back to the ben mulroney show welcome back to this week in politics the

00:38:07.680 friday edition with chris chapin and warren kinsella all right gentlemen uh let's talk about

00:38:12.540 donald trump's big beautiful bill it passed it's going to become law and uh and elon musk feels that

00:38:19.980 all the work that he did on the department of government um it was what's the e stand for i can't

00:38:25.720 remember doge efficiency there we go uh was all for naught and it was a big plank in donald trump's

00:38:33.780 election campaign now rather than sit here and talk about whether or not that was a good idea or not a

00:38:38.380 lot of people voted for donald trump in part because he was going to be focused on waste redundancy and

00:38:44.820 putting money back into the pockets of americans that was lost in the swamp of washington and that

00:38:50.820 now according to the guy who spearheaded it is that's not happening that was a waste of time waste

00:38:56.840 of energy waste of resources do you think that that is going to cause a schism within maga those who

00:39:03.660 wanted it and didn't get it and those who just side with trump reflexively warren what do you think

00:39:08.780 i don't think it will uh he got it through you know we kept hearing from the u.s media that uh he

00:39:16.040 was going to be in trouble in the senate um the bill went through the senate um and then we heard he was

00:39:21.640 going to be in trouble in the house and he got it through the house so um he's got a mandate you know

00:39:28.040 he said he was going to do this in fairness to him and i full disclosure i campaigned for kamala harris

00:39:34.240 last summer he was very open he said this is what he was going to do and what amazes me is the number

00:39:41.380 of americans if you look at the polling who don't know what's in the bill yeah and what is them in the

00:39:46.100 big great big beautiful uh piece of legislation and you know millions of them are going to lose

00:39:51.960 medicaid coverage millions of them are not going to be able to get food stamps in order to provide

00:39:57.160 for themselves it's going to have real significant impacts on americans lives but 77 million americans

00:40:04.000 voted for it and they're going to get it and i i take everything that warren said at face value but

00:40:08.640 chris you know as as popular as as donald trump is so too is elon musk very popular with a particular

00:40:15.300 type of person and they were all in with him on doge and so to hear the the leader of that faction

00:40:21.160 within maga saying we were betrayed more or less he's not using that he's not using that pointed

00:40:26.940 language but that's what's that's that's really the gist of it i i have to assume that there are going

00:40:32.100 to be some jaded maga followers out there because of this you know ben i'm not sure i think it's

00:40:38.340 going to be a very interesting few months usually i have a pretty good read on these things but when

00:40:42.280 it comes to trump and mega it's it's just it's such a different beast we've seen this over the last 10

00:40:47.180 years um the loyalty he has amongst his followers that they could be out there you know telling people

00:40:53.300 they support a bill they have no idea what it includes i think just speaks volumes to you know

00:40:58.740 their ability to get in line with him but elon does present a really different faction of that

00:41:04.780 party uh a much younger faction of that party the more libertarian wing of that mega movement and

00:41:11.880 he's been quite vocal you know for months now in his opposition to the president and you know

00:41:16.520 specifically overspending i i think elon's been quite vocal that he thinks government spending's

00:41:21.500 ridiculously out of control and that they're you know heading off a cliff uh that they will not be

00:41:26.560 able to recover from and so um i know we might talk on it later but i i think the only way you

00:41:31.280 could see a real schism in that mega movement and and that it could hurt the president is if somebody

00:41:36.440 like musk were to you know start his own party and really you know either start his own party or just

00:41:41.100 sink millions and millions of dollars in targeting primary uh primaries of republicans that really puts

00:41:46.440 a scare in them it's almost as if you know what we're going to be talking about next to chris because

00:41:50.620 yeah elon musk has been musing uh publicly about creating a new party a third party in the united

00:41:57.600 states let's listen to him in his own words so what am i doing in politics um it's it's not i don't want

00:42:04.480 to be in politics i want to be clear that is not my preference i i like i just like building stuff i like

00:42:10.460 building products that people love um and and and i you know i i derive joy from seeing people enjoy

00:42:18.160 the products that my companies make actually don't like politics at all i hate politics

00:42:24.400 but but but but the stakes are so high here that i i have had no choice but to uh take a stand well

00:42:34.560 and so he's talking about creating a party for the the 80 percent in the middle and look there is the

00:42:40.760 a rational brain can appreciate that yes there could there should be a way for that seed to find

00:42:47.620 purchase but anybody who has followed politics in the united states warren knows that the

00:42:52.720 institutional power of the two-party system uh is intractable and unchangeable what do you think

00:42:58.960 well you know musk is saying in the clip you played that he hates politics well politics hates him too

00:43:07.080 um you know he's now on the outs with donald trump who absolutely owns the republican party

00:43:13.380 and his brand the the passage of the bill this week makes that clear donald trump is the republican

00:43:19.480 party and so musk making noises about creating a new party well the last guy to do that really was

00:43:25.480 ross pro back in 92 yeah when your dad was prime minister up here in canada and we all know how that

00:43:30.920 ended up yeah uh it ended in failure cost ross pro a lot of money went nowhere the last time musk

00:43:37.240 tried to do something like this was in the month of april he got involved in a wisconsin judge race

00:43:43.080 like up to and including him handing out checks to people for a million bucks it was just crazy and

00:43:49.620 even then he couldn't pull it off so like i think the system in the united states is pretty intractable

00:43:55.220 and i think donald trump's grip on the republican party it's not going to be changed by by elon musk

00:44:00.480 all right the last point i want to i want us to explore is a fairly uh fairly sensational uh has

00:44:07.220 a fairly sensational headline to it i don't know who the author is and warren maybe you can help me

00:44:11.020 with this it's carney a bootlicker for trump's demands just ask lloyd axworthy uh is mark carney

00:44:16.820 and if full disclosure our warren kinsella wrote this article but that's that's a quite quite a um

00:44:23.760 an epithet to call uh the prime minister a bootlicker

00:44:26.640 yeah and that was uh yeah i can't stand this calmness no that was that was the word that

00:44:33.320 lloyd axworthy used you know the former minister of foreign affairs a giant of the liberal party for

00:44:39.100 decades uh representing winnipeg and you know he was a big deal and he just let it rip this week and

00:44:45.980 a lot of us were shocked by what he had to say he was very very upset with mark carney for ditching

00:44:52.320 the digital uh tax on sunday night because donald trump wanted that and i think i don't i don't

00:44:58.720 think lloyd was who i've known for a long time i don't think he was preoccupied with the digital

00:45:02.820 tax quite so much as carney acting so quickly at you know one of trump's demands and what does this

00:45:09.040 mean for things like social programs or for supply management so i mean that's for a lot of us we were

00:45:15.660 shocked by you know axworthy using that kind of word you know he kind of threw it down yeah but

00:45:21.000 chris chapin i've got a lot of very smart friends and one in particular sent me a text

00:45:25.440 saying that what my take on the uh on the capitulation of mark carney on the dst was no

00:45:33.060 such thing it was a masterful negotiation where where mark carney gave up nothing and allowed

00:45:39.860 donald trump to believe he got everything now we've also had people on this show say that we're living

00:45:44.860 in a time where no matter what mark carney does whether it's in keeping with his election promises or

00:45:50.180 anathema to those election promises it is proof positive that mark carney is right so how do you

00:45:56.120 see this is there a scenario that you can see where mark carney actually was a genius in in in walking

00:46:02.040 back the dst i could certainly see the argument for that ben i mean i think it was one of those

00:46:09.080 things that if if you looked at what trump had put in the window that we needed to walk away from in

00:46:14.780 his eyes whether that was the digital sales tax or supply management for example and i think those are

00:46:19.180 two of the things the president's been most vocal on um the prime minister for political reasons was

00:46:24.600 never walking away from supply management you know he was not thrown in the towel and throwing in every

00:46:28.540 seat they have in quebec to give up supply management to the president so i i certainly do buy into part

00:46:33.920 of it that i think if he knew he had to give up one you know if that's what brought the discussion

00:46:39.460 back to you know negotiations and not the abandonment that we saw from the president a week or so ago

00:46:44.340 then i i do think there's a world where it could be a master class that the problem is we're not at

00:46:48.520 that negotiating table so we don't really know but i certainly see i certainly can see where that

00:46:52.840 argument could come from yeah yeah you know what yeah you need to give the president wins i i'm gonna

00:46:57.680 i'm gonna have to amend what i said a couple of days ago where i was categorical that we got nothing

00:47:02.840 for it for all i know you're absolutely right part of the conversation was we're gonna give you the dst

00:47:09.080 but you're gonna back the f off on supply management now i don't know if that happened

00:47:14.120 and we'll have to see if it does happen but if that does come to pass if we learn and if we see

00:47:19.060 that donald trump has tempered his objection to supply management i think we can reverse engineer

00:47:24.840 an argument that that was part of this negotiation in which case it will be a win for mark carney but

00:47:30.660 until i see that what i see is a guy who looked quite feckless um we're gonna have to leave it there

00:47:35.360 gentlemen but i do hope uh you have a great weekend i want to thank you for always coming

00:47:39.380 on to the show and contributing it's always a lot of fun thanks bud thanks guys

00:47:43.460 sorry mate can you leave me alone i just want to be on my own i've had a bad day

00:47:57.900 and you're making it worse than any other situation i could converse

00:48:02.000 i know i haven't seen you since you don't know it can't believe that you're telling me the story you get

00:48:07.680 no i don't talk to me anything it feels like this has never ended

00:48:12.420 jesus christ you're a bloodsucker

00:48:15.000 punish me just like the weapon

00:48:17.660 you're a bloodsucker

00:48:20.280 bring me just like a vulture

00:48:23.000 look it's fine but you're straight in me

00:48:25.200 i wasn't looking for competing

00:48:27.560 you mean well but i'll find out my own i've only come for the bank then i'll be our phone

00:48:33.240 now i don't want to talk about it

00:48:35.800 take my word that i need to doubt it

00:48:38.280 stay against you're pissing me off i'm going down all the minutes through you broke up

00:48:43.240 jesus christ you're a bloodsucker

00:48:45.560 fight me just like the lover

00:48:48.560 you're a bloodsucker

00:48:50.560 take me crazy just like a monster

00:48:53.560 You're winding me up, I don't want to see me inside

00:49:18.740 You're winding me up, I've got one thing to say to you

00:49:32.220 Fuck off, Jesus Christ

00:49:36.000 You're a blood sucker

00:49:37.540 You're a blood sucker

00:49:48.740 So while Mark Carney, our Prime Minister, is out flipping pancakes in a full suit

00:49:59.400 He's taking some friendly fire from a Liberal stalwart, Lloyd Axworthy

00:50:04.480 Why is that? Well, we'll find out

00:50:06.920 Hello, I'm Adrienne Batra, with me is Warren Kinsella

00:50:09.880 Alright, another Liberal stalwart, Warren Kinsella

00:50:13.420 You know, I kind of jokingly talk about Mark Carney flipping pancakes in a full suit

00:50:20.640 We're showing an image of it here

00:50:22.460 I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised

00:50:25.140 He's a banker

00:50:26.820 And I guess that's the way he rolls

00:50:29.720 And that's fine

00:50:31.260 It's just an interesting choice

00:50:35.020 But he's always trying to portray, you know, the seriousness of the job

00:50:39.660 The importance of the work that he's doing

00:50:41.840 And I get that

00:50:43.600 But he's taking some friendly fire from former Liberal MP Lloyd Axworthy

00:50:50.680 Of course, who kept the Liberal Party of Canada alive and well

00:50:54.580 And gave it oxygen in the West for many years when the party was decimated

00:50:59.520 But Warren, what is Axworthy taking issue with Carney?

00:51:05.920 Well, he really took issue with him

00:51:08.580 He called him a bootlicker

00:51:10.580 Yeah

00:51:11.460 A bootlicker

00:51:12.340 And suggested that Mark Carney was a coward

00:51:16.940 So it came out after on a blog post that Axworthy did

00:51:23.420 After Carney scuttled late that Sunday night

00:51:27.720 The digital service tax that the Trudeau guys cooked up about a year ago

00:51:34.000 Donald Trump objected to it

00:51:36.300 Joe Biden had objected to it too

00:51:39.120 So it was like successive U.S. presidents saying

00:51:41.780 We don't like this

00:51:43.220 It's not fair

00:51:44.080 And Carney just got rid of it summarily

00:51:47.060 Been passed by the House of Commons

00:51:48.640 But he got rid of this tax

00:51:50.280 And that's what prompted Lloyd Axworthy to come out and say what he said

00:51:55.400 And you and I both know, as Westerners

00:51:58.300 Lloyd Axworthy really did keep the Liberal Party of Canada alive

00:52:02.700 During some very dark times for the Liberal Party

00:52:06.460 He was the only elected member west of the Lakehead for years

00:52:10.960 So for him to say what he said, even though he's 85 years old

00:52:14.860 For him to say what he said, that's a big deal

00:52:17.860 A lot of Liberals are talking about it and saying, wow, I wonder what this means

00:52:22.180 Yeah, look, I don't know if it's fair

00:52:26.300 But with going to the backstory on all of this

00:52:31.800 President Trump had said this digital services tax is a no-go

00:52:37.520 It's not going to work

00:52:38.620 And then trade was shut off

00:52:41.560 They cut off trade negotiations because of it

00:52:45.800 Carney knew this

00:52:48.100 Warren, that Carney was aware

00:52:50.740 Not only because former President Biden's government was also concerned about it

00:52:57.380 But industries in Canada

00:52:59.500 Consumers groups in Canada

00:53:01.620 Everyone's been saying this

00:53:03.200 To the Trudeau guys even

00:53:05.120 This is not good

00:53:06.400 So Carney sort of made his own trip up

00:53:11.000 In that he just decided to go ahead with it

00:53:14.400 Last night I had a good conversation with President Trump

00:53:18.000 And we agreed to recommence our negotiations

00:53:22.320 And then has a phone call with the President on a Saturday night

00:53:25.800 And then by Sunday

00:53:26.680 The Finance Minister is announcing no digital services tax

00:53:30.660 So just purely from the political aspect of it

00:53:34.760 I mean, is it as abhorrent as Axworthy is making it out to be

00:53:42.340 Or was this just reasonable negotiating to do

00:53:47.640 After the call the President and the Prime Minister had

00:53:50.200 Like, what do you think about that?

00:53:52.340 That is the key question

00:53:53.600 I mean, I was very critical of it

00:53:55.320 You were our colleague Brian Lilly

00:53:58.700 You know, editorially we'd been against it

00:54:01.240 For the reason that the platforms

00:54:04.620 Whether it was, you know, TikTok or Meta or what have you

00:54:08.120 Was just going to pass along the cost of it

00:54:10.680 To those of us who use those platforms

00:54:12.720 Secondly, it was going to create a bureaucracy

00:54:15.540 That we don't need more of

00:54:17.780 And lots of red tape

00:54:19.040 So it was just a bad idea

00:54:20.820 And the Americans saw it, I think, properly

00:54:23.900 As a tax grab at their expense

00:54:26.440 And unfair

00:54:27.280 So, you know, should Carney have seen it coming?

00:54:31.080 Absolutely

00:54:31.560 I mean, the Americans have been complaining about it

00:54:34.040 As you point out, for quite some time

00:54:35.980 You know, what got Axworthy back into the game

00:54:40.720 And he, you know, he's been pretty respectful

00:54:43.020 Of different Liberal leaders since he left politics

00:54:45.720 Is the fact that it looked like Mark Carney

00:54:49.160 Was just doing whatever the boss

00:54:51.960 You know, daddy, as somebody at NATO called him

00:54:54.300 Donald Trump wanted done

00:54:56.200 And that's why he called him a bootlicker

00:55:00.140 So it seemed to be less about the policy

00:55:02.880 And more about the fact that, you know

00:55:05.240 Carney just jumped up and said

00:55:06.920 Ready, I ready

00:55:07.980 And, you know, getting back to the joke

00:55:11.080 You and I were making before

00:55:12.620 About him wearing a full suit

00:55:14.980 To flip pancakes

00:55:16.820 As Westerners, we know you don't do that

00:55:19.340 No

00:55:20.120 It's just sometimes Mark doesn't seem to get

00:55:23.640 This politics stuff

00:55:25.400 Like if the Americans had signaled

00:55:27.640 They were coming on the digital tax

00:55:30.100 For a long time

00:55:31.980 And, you know, he had to ditch it

00:55:34.560 At the last moment

00:55:35.360 I've had some Liberal

00:55:36.660 Kind of Carney fanatic saying to me

00:55:39.780 Oh, Warren, you should have known

00:55:41.340 He was just saving that up

00:55:43.200 As a bargaining chip

00:55:44.440 And this was the plan all along

00:55:47.520 Maybe that's true

00:55:50.220 But I think the president

00:55:52.620 Has signaled very clearly

00:55:54.240 He's coming next for supply management

00:55:57.200 Yeah

00:55:57.640 Which has been a hot topic

00:55:59.240 In this country

00:56:00.460 Among conservatives and Quebecers

00:56:02.540 For a long, long time

00:56:03.940 And that one is going to be different

00:56:05.940 The digital tax was one that

00:56:08.280 You know, hadn't come into place yet

00:56:10.180 They were going to start collecting

00:56:11.740 The revenue from it this week

00:56:13.320 But the supply management

00:56:15.320 That's something very different

00:56:16.740 That could cause big trouble

00:56:18.260 For Mark Carney

00:56:19.020 Yeah

00:56:19.920 You know, we had a name

00:56:21.200 For the Trudeau fanatics

00:56:23.800 We called them Truanons

00:56:24.980 I guess we're going to have to

00:56:25.880 Come up with something

00:56:26.820 For those that

00:56:27.920 Think Carney does no wrong

00:56:30.020 But I don't believe for a moment

00:56:32.300 That that was going to be

00:56:33.440 A bargaining chip

00:56:34.180 No

00:56:34.760 President Trump doesn't

00:56:36.320 Put this stuff out there

00:56:37.600 I mean, plenty to say

00:56:39.600 About President Trump

00:56:40.280 But he doesn't put this stuff

00:56:41.400 Out there

00:56:41.940 Lightly

00:56:43.760 I mean, he obviously

00:56:44.900 Wanted a reaction

00:56:46.120 He got the reaction

00:56:48.220 That he needed

00:56:50.760 And by the way

00:56:52.280 As you

00:56:53.120 For the record

00:56:54.380 The digital services tax

00:56:56.580 Was never a good idea

00:56:57.680 So it is good

00:56:58.520 That it's gone

00:56:59.540 In that sense

00:57:01.540 But

00:57:02.460 Just beyond that though

00:57:04.920 It lends

00:57:07.900 Sort of up

00:57:08.560 To a broader challenge

00:57:09.580 I think

00:57:10.040 That Canadians

00:57:11.200 Should feel

00:57:11.720 Concerned about

00:57:13.000 And that is

00:57:14.140 Who is negotiating

00:57:15.200 For Canada

00:57:15.880 Who is at the table

00:57:17.360 For Canada

00:57:18.060 I know that

00:57:19.240 In the previous

00:57:20.200 Trump administration

00:57:22.280 When Christopher

00:57:23.040 Freeland

00:57:23.400 Was leading

00:57:25.480 Our negotiations

00:57:26.140 Everyone was cheering

00:57:27.780 Her on

00:57:28.520 And rah-rah

00:57:29.320 How you were standing

00:57:30.860 Up to the big

00:57:31.800 Orange mean man

00:57:33.320 And

00:57:33.500 I don't know

00:57:35.340 If Canada got

00:57:35.980 The best deal

00:57:37.040 And I feel

00:57:38.260 We're in the same boat

00:57:39.980 I don't

00:57:41.120 I mean

00:57:41.740 I see who's

00:57:42.480 Across the table

00:57:43.180 For Trump

00:57:44.020 And doing their negotiations

00:57:45.320 They're pretty good

00:57:46.880 They're smart

00:57:47.820 They're solid

00:57:48.420 I'm not saying

00:57:49.480 That Canada's

00:57:50.360 Negotiators

00:57:51.520 Aren't all of those things

00:57:52.960 I just don't think

00:57:53.980 That there's

00:57:54.540 A steel spine

00:57:57.220 Perhaps

00:57:57.860 That they're

00:57:58.540 They're dealing with

00:57:59.480 Across the table

00:58:00.400 What's your

00:58:01.100 Thinking on that

00:58:02.800 I think

00:58:03.040 I think you're right

00:58:04.040 You know

00:58:04.280 If you go back

00:58:04.840 To the very first

00:58:05.660 Free trade agreement

00:58:06.560 We had with the Americans

00:58:07.860 You know

00:58:08.720 It was Simon Reisman

00:58:09.900 Heather Reisman's dad

00:58:11.380 You had Pat Carney

00:58:12.960 Who was Minister of Trade

00:58:14.380 And other strong

00:58:15.420 Ministers of Trade

00:58:16.480 At the federal level

00:58:17.960 And you know

00:58:19.060 They were strong personalities

00:58:20.520 Reisman was somebody

00:58:21.620 You didn't mess around with

00:58:23.020 And we got a good deal

00:58:24.460 For the country

00:58:25.220 The Mulroney government

00:58:26.280 Got a good deal

00:58:27.360 And you know

00:58:28.940 My former boss

00:58:30.600 Prime Minister

00:58:31.240 Kretzian

00:58:31.720 Kept it

00:58:32.340 And defended it

00:58:33.320 Because he felt

00:58:34.200 It was good

00:58:34.700 For the country

00:58:35.420 So you know

00:58:36.740 You're absolutely right

00:58:38.300 Not only do we not know

00:58:39.840 Who's at the table

00:58:40.920 For us

00:58:41.480 And if they've got

00:58:42.240 That spine of steel

00:58:43.920 As you put it

00:58:44.660 But we also don't

00:58:45.840 We don't know

00:58:46.600 What their priorities are

00:58:48.640 Is it just to get a deal

00:58:50.460 Is it a deal

00:58:51.440 That prevents

00:58:52.720 The application

00:58:53.700 Of any tariffs

00:58:54.820 In the future

00:58:55.560 Obviously as a country

00:58:57.360 That's something

00:58:57.980 That we all want

00:58:58.900 All provinces want

00:59:00.560 But we don't know

00:59:02.060 What the objective is

00:59:03.480 My concern

00:59:04.320 With this deal

00:59:05.480 That by the way

00:59:07.000 Mark Carney

00:59:07.660 Had said at the end of March

00:59:08.840 You know

00:59:09.480 Our old relationship

00:59:10.620 With the United States

00:59:11.420 Was over

00:59:11.980 And then we find out

00:59:13.380 From Brian's reporting

00:59:14.660 A few weeks later

00:59:15.820 That they were having

00:59:16.560 Secret negotiations

00:59:17.760 My concern

00:59:19.160 Has always been

00:59:20.300 So well

00:59:22.840 What's to prevent

00:59:23.760 The president

00:59:24.780 From tearing up

00:59:26.160 That deal

00:59:26.840 Like the one

00:59:28.180 That's in place

00:59:29.040 Now

00:59:29.400 The USMCA

00:59:30.540 Was one

00:59:31.080 That he himself

00:59:32.240 Signed in his first term

00:59:33.660 So should we be

00:59:35.900 Devoting all this effort

00:59:37.160 All this time

00:59:37.980 And energy

00:59:38.560 And resources

00:59:39.360 To a new deal

00:59:40.900 When the president

00:59:42.040 Could just say

00:59:42.760 I don't like it

00:59:43.580 And I've decided

00:59:44.360 I'm not going to

00:59:45.000 Abide by it

00:59:45.640 That to me

00:59:46.560 Is a real problem

00:59:47.700 And it makes me question

00:59:49.380 What the Carney strategy

00:59:50.660 Is here

00:59:51.320 And just to

00:59:53.700 To put a finer point

00:59:54.940 On it

00:59:55.300 On the issue

00:59:57.080 That you just

00:59:58.100 Brought up

00:59:59.180 On sort of

00:59:59.860 What's next

01:00:00.760 In these big discussions

01:00:02.740 Obviously of course

01:00:04.420 We have the auto sector

01:00:05.460 That is ongoing

01:00:07.360 With the steel

01:00:09.480 Tariffs as well

01:00:10.880 But it's that

01:00:12.520 Supply management

01:00:13.500 Certainly

01:00:14.260 President Trump

01:00:15.800 Has telegraphed

01:00:17.200 His concerns

01:00:19.040 Of what the Canadian

01:00:20.640 Government

01:00:22.040 Charges

01:00:23.080 Their dairy producers

01:00:24.800 Particularly in Wisconsin

01:00:25.960 The taxes that go on

01:00:27.720 But Mark Carney

01:00:29.420 Knows

01:00:29.900 You do not touch

01:00:31.060 Supply management

01:00:31.940 No matter what

01:00:33.060 So was he willing

01:00:34.320 To risk here

01:00:35.260 To blow up

01:00:36.120 A potential trade deal

01:00:37.180 Take a hit

01:00:39.540 Domestically

01:00:40.320 What do you think

01:00:41.920 What do you think

01:00:41.940 The calculus is there

01:00:43.580 Well I think

01:00:44.700 The president is coming

01:00:45.620 The president made

01:00:46.820 Very clear

01:00:47.580 You know

01:00:48.340 The post that

01:00:49.560 The president made

01:00:50.780 That shut down

01:00:52.460 The digital tax

01:00:53.560 He also went after

01:00:55.040 Supply management

01:00:55.980 What is supply management?

01:00:57.220 It's basically

01:00:58.600 It's basically to create

01:00:59.200 A stable

01:01:00.040 Managed

01:01:01.240 Marketplace

01:01:03.560 For our farmers

01:01:05.380 For dairy

01:01:06.320 For eggs

01:01:07.080 For poultry

01:01:07.880 And it's been in place

01:01:09.500 Through successive governments

01:01:10.700 It's why Andrew Scheer

01:01:12.520 Won the leadership

01:01:13.320 Against Maxime Bernier

01:01:15.300 Bernier was against

01:01:16.800 Supply management

01:01:17.700 I'm sorry

01:01:18.100 Scheer was for it

01:01:19.280 And Scheer won the leadership

01:01:20.780 And every successive

01:01:22.380 Conservative

01:01:23.060 And liberal leader

01:01:24.540 Has protected

01:01:25.700 Supply management

01:01:26.680 To the point

01:01:27.880 Where just last week

01:01:29.480 At the end of June

01:01:30.860 The House of Commons

01:01:31.840 Finally passed

01:01:33.040 A bill

01:01:34.120 That would

01:01:35.060 Basically

01:01:35.680 Tie Carney's hands

01:01:37.320 And not allow him

01:01:39.020 To use supply management

01:01:40.620 As a bargaining chip

01:01:42.100 So that creates

01:01:43.200 A big big problem

01:01:44.280 For him

01:01:44.800 If as I believe

01:01:46.220 The president

01:01:47.380 Is going to start

01:01:48.240 Coming after us

01:01:49.180 On that

01:01:49.760 And you know

01:01:50.580 There's a lot of people

01:01:51.280 In this country

01:01:51.920 Who agree

01:01:52.680 That supply management

01:01:54.500 Does distort

01:01:55.560 The marketplace

01:01:56.280 It's something

01:01:56.980 That we shouldn't

01:01:57.760 Be doing

01:01:58.280 But in the province

01:02:00.220 Of Quebec

01:02:00.640 Where it is valued

01:02:02.640 And considered

01:02:03.300 Very important

01:02:04.240 I think we're in

01:02:05.520 For some big trouble

01:02:06.840 If we get rid of it

01:02:07.920 A lot of Quebecers

01:02:09.060 Are going to rise up

01:02:10.080 And be angry

01:02:11.240 And maybe even

01:02:12.260 Give a big boost

01:02:13.460 To separatism

01:02:22.680 Doggy looks wave to me

01:02:31.340 Oh

01:02:33.220 Bees

01:02:34.940 Why would you go think that

01:02:38.180 Never stood a fighting chance

01:02:41.660 Nobody's ever been seen

01:02:45.100 Unsure

01:02:48.560 Bearing through the cracks

01:02:51.080 In the seams

01:02:52.100 Scaring the shit

01:02:54.480 Out of me

01:02:55.100 You think I was too hot on that tease

01:03:12.500 No

01:03:14.340 Chance

01:03:16.100 Second guessing feels where it's at

01:03:19.300 Solitary is to regret

01:03:22.660 Completely been out of shape

01:03:26.180 My body is not where I'm at

01:03:29.580 But my mind is sharp as a tag

01:03:33.080 Then

01:03:34.900 God

01:03:36.540 Dodging the doorbells

01:03:39.380 Like barbting for apples

01:03:40.940 And I can't shake this out

01:03:43.540 I tried

01:03:45.280 I tried

01:03:48.740 It's worse when you're working

01:03:52.900 And everyone's just

01:03:54.640 Trying to crimp your style

01:03:57.280 I'm right

01:03:58.940 You know I'm right

01:04:02.400 When did you get so tan

01:04:07.460 In this

01:04:10.920 It must be nice to sit in the sun

01:04:14.120 And squat

01:04:16.120 Go

01:04:17.500 I'm learning

01:04:19.460 And guessing

01:04:20.260 I'm wrong

01:04:21.080 And resetting

01:04:22.080 I'm learning

01:04:22.840 And guessing

01:04:23.680 I'm wrong

01:04:24.520 And correcting

01:04:25.340 I'm learning

01:04:26.300 And guessing

01:04:27.100 I'm wrong

01:04:27.920 And resetting

01:04:28.940 Again

01:04:29.620 I'm learning

01:04:33.140 And guessing

01:04:33.940 I'm wrong

01:04:34.760 And resetting

01:04:35.760 I'm learning

01:04:36.580 And guessing

01:04:37.340 I'm wrong

01:04:38.220 And correcting

01:04:39.080 I'm learning

01:04:39.980 And guessing

01:04:40.800 I'm wrong

01:04:41.640 And resetting

01:04:42.640 Again

01:04:43.340 Dodging

01:04:46.960 The doorbells

01:04:47.960 Like barbting

01:04:48.680 For apples

01:04:49.500 And I can't shake this out

01:04:52.100 I tried

01:04:53.820 I tried

01:04:57.280 It's worse when you're working

01:05:01.500 And everything was just

01:05:03.220 Trying to crimp your style

01:05:05.820 I'm right

01:05:07.540 You know I'm right

01:05:08.860 You know I'm right

01:05:10.960 Dodging the doorbells

01:05:15.460 Like barbting

01:05:16.260 For apples

01:05:17.000 And I can't shake this out

01:05:19.500 I tried

01:05:21.260 Oh lord

01:05:23.860 I tried

01:05:24.760 It's worse when you're working

01:05:28.960 And everyone's just

01:05:30.660 Trying to crimp your style

01:05:33.300 I'm right

01:05:35.020 You know I'm right

01:05:38.660 Heard you on your country back

01:05:42.700 Shut the f*** up

01:05:45.520 Heard you on your country back

01:05:47.320 You're listening to the Alex Pearson Show

01:05:51.060 Oh and I'm so sorry I have to play you that tripe

01:05:53.780 It's gross

01:05:54.700 But I do

01:05:55.400 Because it is a part of the conversation

01:05:57.980 And that is Bob Villain

01:06:00.680 And you've heard a lot about this vile English punk band

01:06:04.740 Getting headlines all over the world

01:06:07.160 Certainly for the Jew-hating set

01:06:09.080 They played at Glassbury over the weekend

01:06:11.320 And of course we're talking about the issue of freedom of speech

01:06:14.740 And you know whether we have it or not we can debate

01:06:17.820 But what we can't debate is that

01:06:19.480 Yes we have freedom of speech

01:06:20.660 But it doesn't mean it doesn't come with a cost

01:06:23.120 You can say whatever you want

01:06:25.180 But there is no guarantee that what you say is not going to get you into trouble

01:06:28.520 That is just not a guarantee

01:06:30.000 Right

01:06:31.340 But nonetheless there is a cost to this particular group

01:06:35.400 Since that performance

01:06:38.180 They have been denounced by the UK Prime Minister

01:06:41.960 There's now a criminal investigation underway

01:06:44.040 Manchester music festivals now cancelled them

01:06:46.920 Germany now cancelling performances

01:06:49.100 France they had a festival there

01:06:50.780 They got cancelled there

01:06:51.900 And the big one

01:06:53.540 The US government

01:06:54.680 Very quickly

01:06:55.720 Very quickly

01:06:56.720 Marco Rubio

01:06:57.960 I don't think hesitated at all

01:07:00.340 When he cancelled their visa

01:07:01.900 Because of a number of shows in the United States

01:07:04.820 And that has now been blocked for future entry

01:07:07.840 Now when you're a band

01:07:09.020 Like this band is pretty big in the UK

01:07:11.000 I'm thinking most people hadn't heard of them

01:07:13.160 Before this whole thing happened

01:07:14.120 But they're very big in the UK

01:07:15.780 Big enough that people don't ignore them

01:07:17.560 But they're not as big here

01:07:19.100 But when you get an opportunity to break into the American market

01:07:22.660 Like that is when you get catapulted to a whole new level

01:07:25.620 So you got to hit them where it hurts

01:07:27.540 Right

01:07:27.780 And a denied visa to the United States

01:07:30.200 Would hurt them

01:07:31.920 But the question then becomes

01:07:34.080 Okay what about here

01:07:34.880 Now the band apparently doesn't have any shows set here

01:07:37.480 To our knowledge

01:07:38.300 But there are calls now

01:07:40.340 From a number of MPs to say

01:07:41.580 No they can't come here either

01:07:42.740 We need to block any kind of entry into this country

01:07:46.380 Brian Passifoom dug into this story

01:07:48.380 As to what the approach would be here in this country

01:07:51.060 And he was talking to

01:07:52.500 I think was it Greg Brady

01:07:54.400 It's early now

01:07:55.820 I think he's

01:07:56.720 Yeah he's talking to Greg Brady

01:07:57.900 Earlier this morning

01:07:59.280 And here was his response

01:08:00.320 Now they have no show scheduled for Canada

01:08:03.760 But it's not stopping politicians from both sides of the aisle

01:08:08.620 From coming forward

01:08:09.720 And saying that they should be barred from Canada

01:08:11.740 Anthony Housefather

01:08:13.140 Liberal MP

01:08:13.960 Went public on Twitter

01:08:15.580 I spoke to him a few days ago about it

01:08:17.700 Also spoke to Michelle Rempel-Garner

01:08:19.980 The MP from Calgary

01:08:21.780 Who is also in favour of the applicable government departments

01:08:28.060 Of restricting them from coming here

01:08:30.440 So far

01:08:32.520 No plans to do anything

01:08:34.860 Should that happen

01:08:36.280 The band has put out a statement saying

01:08:38.160 Quote

01:08:38.440 We are not for the death of Jews, Arabs

01:08:40.380 Or any other race group of people

01:08:42.040 We are for the dismantling of a violent military machine

01:08:45.180 He added on saying

01:08:46.800 Those in the spotlight before us are not the story

01:08:49.260 We are a distraction from the story

01:08:50.940 And whatever sanctions we receive are a distraction

01:08:53.800 Let me bring in Warren Kinsella to this conversation

01:08:55.740 You know him of course

01:08:56.600 Post media columnist as well as the author

01:08:59.380 Of national bestseller

01:09:00.820 Web of Hate

01:09:02.440 And certainly has a long history

01:09:04.160 Of finding and fighting hate

01:09:06.120 In this country

01:09:06.700 He joins us now

01:09:07.360 Hi it's been a while

01:09:08.300 It's been a while

01:09:09.820 How are you?

01:09:10.880 Well I'm troubled by this

01:09:12.160 I mean look

01:09:12.660 I'm a freedom of speecher

01:09:13.960 I think you are too

01:09:14.780 I love music

01:09:15.600 And I don't like censorship

01:09:16.780 But there is a line

01:09:17.980 And I think a lot of people

01:09:19.480 Have a hard time

01:09:21.000 Grasping that line

01:09:22.460 What is the line for you

01:09:23.940 That crosses into

01:09:25.380 Why they are

01:09:26.200 You know

01:09:27.260 A problem

01:09:28.020 Let's say

01:09:28.560 Well by going on stage

01:09:31.400 At Glastow

01:09:32.140 And like Glastonbury

01:09:33.380 Just for people

01:09:34.280 Who aren't familiar with it

01:09:35.120 It is

01:09:35.620 You know

01:09:36.120 Because I've got a long background

01:09:37.220 Of music too

01:09:37.920 As you know

01:09:38.440 I have my own music

01:09:39.660 Promotion company

01:09:41.260 I have my own record label

01:09:42.420 Like Glastonbury

01:09:43.720 Is the biggest music festival

01:09:45.080 In the world

01:09:45.600 So

01:09:46.620 And they were on the main stage

01:09:48.240 And this guy

01:09:49.460 Went up there

01:09:50.140 And said

01:09:50.680 Death

01:09:51.100 Death

01:09:51.560 To the IDF

01:09:52.500 He advocated

01:09:54.060 Killing

01:09:55.220 Jews

01:09:56.360 And Jewish members

01:09:57.800 Of the IDF

01:09:58.800 So

01:09:59.640 You know

01:10:00.720 In this country

01:10:01.840 As in Britain

01:10:02.920 That's a criminal offence

01:10:04.620 Counselling murder

01:10:05.960 Is a criminal offence

01:10:07.800 So

01:10:08.480 My colleague

01:10:09.240 Brian Passafium's piece

01:10:10.600 Is important

01:10:11.300 Because the Americans

01:10:12.600 Acted quickly

01:10:13.660 We don't know

01:10:15.520 If these guys

01:10:16.360 Were planning

01:10:17.000 To tour here

01:10:18.120 I think it's a lot

01:10:18.920 Less likely now

01:10:20.440 Alex

01:10:20.740 Because

01:10:21.160 It's just financially

01:10:22.620 It's impossible

01:10:23.500 To sustain

01:10:24.400 A tour of just

01:10:25.720 Canada alone

01:10:26.680 You know

01:10:27.400 Generally what bands

01:10:28.460 Will do from Europe

01:10:29.360 Is they'll piggyback

01:10:30.360 Onto a US tour

01:10:31.740 Well that's now gone

01:10:33.060 So

01:10:33.320 My suspicion is

01:10:34.600 They're not going to be able

01:10:35.940 To come to Canada at all

01:10:37.180 But it would be

01:10:38.040 An important symbol

01:10:39.280 Or signal

01:10:40.040 For the

01:10:40.600 You know

01:10:41.260 For Ottawa to send

01:10:42.320 To say

01:10:43.160 We think

01:10:44.120 It is likely

01:10:45.140 That you will come here

01:10:46.260 And commit an indictable offence

01:10:48.000 And we don't want you

01:10:49.160 Coming here

01:10:49.560 I mean that's what

01:10:50.140 The Australian government

01:10:51.040 Did this morning

01:10:51.800 With Kanye West

01:10:52.760 Is even though

01:10:54.040 He had family connections

01:10:55.260 To Australia

01:10:55.900 They said

01:10:56.460 No

01:10:57.120 We believe

01:10:58.260 That you're

01:10:58.860 Likely to come here

01:11:00.140 And commit an offence

01:11:01.320 That is a provision

01:11:03.180 In Canadian law

01:11:04.180 It's been used

01:11:04.760 On neo-Nazis before

01:11:06.080 It was used

01:11:06.920 During the Ottawa convoy

01:11:08.240 It should be used

01:11:09.080 In this case

01:11:09.760 Yeah

01:11:10.500 I mean look

01:11:11.080 Lil Wayne

01:11:11.660 Chris Brown

01:11:12.560 Coolio

01:11:13.360 Other performers

01:11:14.140 George Galloway

01:11:15.280 There are people

01:11:15.980 That have been

01:11:16.300 Kept out of the country

01:11:17.280 Whether they got in

01:11:18.040 After the fact

01:11:18.580 There are times

01:11:19.180 When they have not

01:11:19.880 Been allowed

01:11:20.300 To come into this country

01:11:21.340 Based on

01:11:22.060 Behaviors they've carried out

01:11:23.800 There's another band

01:11:24.880 It's an Irish punk band

01:11:26.240 Named Kneecap

01:11:26.880 That also played

01:11:28.180 Glastonbury

01:11:28.720 And the lead singer

01:11:29.940 There has been

01:11:30.660 Actually charged

01:11:31.200 With terrorism

01:11:31.940 Related charges

01:11:33.120 Because he's accused

01:11:34.640 Of you know

01:11:35.340 Waltzing around

01:11:36.000 With a Hezbollah flag

01:11:37.240 You know

01:11:37.520 They've got three shows

01:11:38.380 In Toronto

01:11:39.000 In October

01:11:39.800 Again

01:11:40.360 You know

01:11:41.520 We have

01:11:42.500 You know

01:11:43.920 You don't want to

01:11:44.480 Tread over

01:11:44.920 And tromp

01:11:45.580 All over

01:11:45.960 The freedom of speech

01:11:47.060 And institute censorship

01:11:48.760 But again

01:11:49.820 We do have values

01:11:51.560 In this country

01:11:52.160 So it becomes

01:11:52.760 A question of

01:11:53.500 What are our values

01:11:54.620 And what are we

01:11:55.440 Willing to put up with

01:11:56.260 Or do you see this

01:11:57.100 As a slippery slope

01:11:57.880 Because a lot of people

01:11:58.760 A lot of people

01:11:59.880 And you know this

01:12:00.520 Will see this

01:12:01.140 As a very slippery slope

01:12:02.080 No I see this

01:12:03.540 As a case of people

01:12:04.480 Using judgment

01:12:05.320 You know

01:12:05.740 I've been involved

01:12:06.300 In the punk scene

01:12:07.040 Since I was 15 years old

01:12:08.640 And even back then

01:12:10.640 You know

01:12:11.080 I recognized

01:12:11.760 When I was 15

01:12:13.520 That Sid Vicious

01:12:14.500 You know

01:12:15.020 Wearing a swastika t-shirt

01:12:16.500 Or Susie Sue

01:12:17.860 From the Banshees

01:12:18.960 Wearing a swastika armband

01:12:20.560 That's

01:12:21.500 That's crossing

01:12:22.420 A red line

01:12:23.200 That's going too far

01:12:24.640 You know

01:12:25.100 That's a symbol

01:12:25.880 Of Nazi Germany

01:12:27.300 And that's something

01:12:28.080 That punks

01:12:28.600 Shouldn't do

01:12:29.220 And like for sure

01:12:30.140 Rock and roll

01:12:30.880 Has always been

01:12:31.700 Provocative

01:12:32.360 And rock and roll

01:12:33.200 Going back to

01:12:34.000 You know

01:12:34.600 Bill Haley

01:12:35.220 And the Comets

01:12:36.000 Has been about

01:12:36.700 You know

01:12:37.080 Upsetting your parents

01:12:38.080 And your teachers

01:12:38.760 And government

01:12:40.340 For sure

01:12:41.660 But there's a line

01:12:43.060 And the line

01:12:44.220 Was crossed

01:12:44.860 At Glastonbury

01:12:45.940 On the weekend

01:12:46.860 When this guy

01:12:47.960 Stood up

01:12:48.580 This slam poet

01:12:50.040 You know

01:12:50.780 I don't even think

01:12:51.320 He's a punk

01:12:51.940 You know

01:12:52.240 He's really more

01:12:52.980 Of a rapper

01:12:53.540 Than anything else

01:12:54.560 And made this

01:12:55.500 Terrible statement

01:12:56.340 And there has to be

01:12:57.480 Accountability for that

01:12:58.700 Whether you're a punk

01:12:59.920 Or a rocker

01:13:00.780 Or whatever

01:13:01.280 You can't cross

01:13:03.180 That line

01:13:03.820 And he did

01:13:04.600 Well it's been

01:13:05.720 Crossed a lot

01:13:06.420 It's certainly

01:13:06.820 Crossed all the time

01:13:07.600 In this country

01:13:08.200 Where we allow

01:13:08.860 This kind of

01:13:09.360 Stuff every single

01:13:12.380 Day being spewed

01:13:13.360 And we allow people

01:13:14.120 To walk around

01:13:14.760 With terror flags

01:13:15.540 And we don't say

01:13:16.200 Anything

01:13:16.480 So in many ways

01:13:17.560 We are hypocrites

01:13:18.320 Here

01:13:18.500 But I would say

01:13:19.420 Like Susie and the

01:13:20.340 Banshee

01:13:20.600 I saw them live too

01:13:21.980 Probably way after you

01:13:23.140 So there is a forgivable

01:13:24.400 You know

01:13:25.400 There's a forgiveness

01:13:26.460 Here right

01:13:27.200 Where Sid

01:13:28.200 You know

01:13:28.980 And these

01:13:29.780 Older punks

01:13:30.800 Might have done that

01:13:31.740 Once upon a time

01:13:32.420 But they

01:13:32.940 Didn't do it again

01:13:34.500 And they could come back

01:13:35.620 Do you see this

01:13:36.980 Being a forgivable thing

01:13:37.960 Because I don't see

01:13:38.500 This guy backing down

01:13:39.660 Again

01:13:40.220 He can get

01:13:40.720 Bad press isn't

01:13:42.100 Always a bad thing

01:13:43.260 He dug in

01:13:45.020 Yeah

01:13:45.360 He's dug his heels in

01:13:46.520 He likened

01:13:47.160 What he did

01:13:48.260 To his daughter

01:13:49.060 Seeking better lunches

01:13:50.560 At school

01:13:51.160 So it's like

01:13:52.440 Okay well

01:13:53.120 You know

01:13:53.600 F-A-F-O

01:13:54.440 Pal

01:13:54.900 Like if that's

01:13:55.900 The position

01:13:56.500 You want to take

01:13:57.420 If you don't want

01:13:58.160 To express any regret

01:13:59.300 If you don't want

01:13:59.880 To walk this back

01:14:00.800 Because kneecap

01:14:01.780 Even kind of did

01:14:02.600 With the Hezbollah flag

01:14:03.840 Well then you're

01:14:04.760 Going to wear it

01:14:05.380 And you know

01:14:06.180 This is going to

01:14:06.820 Destroy your band

01:14:07.800 Economically

01:14:08.880 For sure

01:14:09.660 And like it has

01:14:11.060 Implications

01:14:12.000 Like already

01:14:13.000 Like in Toronto

01:14:14.140 There is a

01:14:15.820 Community centre

01:14:17.640 As it describes itself

01:14:19.020 That was putting up

01:14:20.580 Graphics on Instagram

01:14:21.780 Over the weekend

01:14:22.780 Death

01:14:23.560 Death

01:14:23.860 To the IDF

01:14:24.760 Showing a skull

01:14:25.840 With blood

01:14:26.340 Coming out of it

01:14:27.020 So my group

01:14:28.080 That fights

01:14:29.020 Antisemitism

01:14:29.880 Facts matter

01:14:31.020 Made a complaint

01:14:32.080 To the police

01:14:32.540 And you know

01:14:33.760 Alex you and I

01:14:34.420 Have been critical

01:14:35.020 Of the police

01:14:35.580 Over the past

01:14:36.180 Couple years

01:14:36.800 But they were there

01:14:38.240 Within an hour

01:14:39.100 Taking a statement

01:14:40.240 And they seem to be

01:14:41.440 Taking it very seriously

01:14:42.420 And as you and I speak

01:14:43.720 An officer is speaking

01:14:45.160 To a member of my staff

01:14:46.600 To pursue it

01:14:47.700 So hopefully

01:14:48.240 There's going to be

01:14:49.000 Some charges there

01:14:49.920 So letting this go

01:14:52.920 Letting this statement

01:14:54.100 Go and just saying

01:14:54.900 Oh it's rock and roll

01:14:55.960 It's a mistake

01:14:57.080 Because already

01:14:58.100 People are seeing it

01:14:59.580 As something

01:15:00.440 That they can say to

01:15:01.540 And that they can

01:15:02.620 Advocate to

01:15:03.420 And that's not

01:15:04.520 Something that we

01:15:05.200 Can accept

01:15:05.700 But we have

01:15:06.820 And you know

01:15:07.640 We've done this

01:15:08.880 That this

01:15:09.480 Has been allowed

01:15:10.820 To normalize

01:15:11.640 To the point

01:15:12.080 Where antisemitism

01:15:13.080 Is the worst

01:15:13.720 It's ever been

01:15:14.700 Right

01:15:15.180 And it's

01:15:15.780 I don't know

01:15:16.220 How to get rid of it

01:15:17.100 Because we have

01:15:17.540 Generations

01:15:18.160 Huge amounts

01:15:18.940 Of young people

01:15:19.940 Who truly believe this

01:15:21.560 Because they don't

01:15:22.560 Know better

01:15:23.020 They aren't educated

01:15:23.980 To know better

01:15:24.600 And they choose

01:15:25.340 Not to be educated

01:15:26.480 On it

01:15:26.800 Right

01:15:27.000 So it does

01:15:28.240 Have a big following

01:15:29.080 I don't know

01:15:29.920 How

01:15:30.260 I don't know

01:15:31.500 How

01:15:31.880 It's going to be

01:15:33.160 Undone

01:15:33.560 It just seems

01:15:34.800 Like it's been

01:15:35.280 Normalized too much

01:15:36.260 It is

01:15:37.600 And it's particularly

01:15:39.140 Among young people

01:15:40.820 And you know

01:15:41.340 The book that I've got

01:15:42.320 Coming out

01:15:42.760 Talks about that

01:15:43.760 Is the bad guys

01:15:45.580 You know

01:15:45.880 Iran and China

01:15:46.720 And Russia

01:15:47.240 And Hamas

01:15:47.820 And Hezbollah

01:15:48.460 Have been very

01:15:49.360 Very effective

01:15:50.040 At communicating

01:15:51.040 Their hateful message

01:15:52.480 To young people

01:15:53.360 In Canada

01:15:53.900 And the United States

01:15:54.640 And Europe

01:15:55.040 And this is an example

01:15:56.500 Of that

01:15:57.060 This is an act

01:15:58.140 Like as you point out

01:15:59.580 That this act

01:16:00.420 Is a big deal

01:16:01.200 In Britain

01:16:01.680 And you know

01:16:03.260 I was familiar with them

01:16:04.380 I've actually played

01:16:05.200 Them on my podcast

01:16:06.140 And then I saw

01:16:07.360 What he said

01:16:07.960 And it's like

01:16:08.340 Holy smokes

01:16:09.320 This is just

01:16:10.400 Like this is

01:16:11.320 Going way

01:16:12.080 Way too far

01:16:13.100 There's got to be

01:16:14.040 Accountability for that

01:16:14.980 So accountability

01:16:15.840 In Britain

01:16:16.460 But we need

01:16:17.020 Accountability

01:16:17.700 As you say

01:16:18.360 In Canada too

01:16:19.500 Because too much

01:16:20.240 Of this stuff

01:16:21.160 Is happening

01:16:21.640 Right now

01:16:22.200 Absolutely

01:16:22.760 Consistency is key

01:16:24.000 All right

01:16:25.100 Look

01:16:25.380 I'm glad we talked

01:16:26.660 I will see

01:16:27.360 What happens on this

01:16:28.160 Do we have a date

01:16:28.600 For book release yet?

01:16:29.440 It looks like

01:16:31.100 Towards the end

01:16:31.880 Of the year

01:16:32.420 You know

01:16:33.220 Sadly

01:16:33.640 You're not going

01:16:35.500 To be surprised

01:16:36.040 By this

01:16:36.460 We have to keep

01:16:37.300 Adding to it

01:16:38.040 Things keep happening

01:16:39.660 Like every single day

01:16:41.220 There's some new

01:16:42.260 Terrible incident

01:16:43.240 And so

01:16:44.420 You know

01:16:44.860 I'm going to have

01:16:45.620 To draw a line

01:16:46.260 In the sand

01:16:46.780 And say

01:16:47.180 We're going to have

01:16:48.600 To send it off

01:16:49.160 To the printers

01:16:49.780 But it looks like

01:16:50.800 It'll be out

01:16:51.180 At the end of the year

01:16:51.860 All right

01:16:52.820 Good stuff

01:16:53.280 Sad it has to be

01:16:53.940 Written at all

01:16:54.440 But I appreciate it

01:16:55.340 Thanks Warren

01:16:56.000 Thanks my friend

01:16:57.500 There you go

01:16:58.000 Warren Kinsella

01:16:58.980 Who you can read

01:16:59.900 Of course

01:17:00.220 In post media

01:17:01.380 But also has

01:17:02.160 This book

01:17:02.700 Coming out

01:17:04.080 End of the year

01:17:04.840 Where you can read

01:17:07.800 This book

01:17:14.580 Is

01:17:15.700 Firstly

01:17:16.080 It's

01:17:16.160 It's

01:17:17.760 This book

01:17:18.760 That

01:17:19.660 It's

01:17:19.820 And

01:17:19.960 That

01:17:21.600 This book

01:17:22.400 Is

01:17:22.900 This book

01:17:23.480 Is

01:17:23.680 This book

01:17:23.840 Is

01:17:23.980 To

01:17:24.260 This book

01:17:24.800 Is

01:17:25.260 And

01:17:25.600 This book

01:17:26.220 Is

01:17:26.740 This book

01:17:27.000 Is

01:17:33.940 Thank you.

01:18:03.940 Thank you.

01:18:33.940 Thank you.

01:19:03.940 Thank you.

01:19:33.940 Thank you.

01:20:03.940 Thank you.

01:20:33.940 Thank you.

01:21:03.940 Thank you.

01:21:33.940 Thank you.

01:22:03.940 Thank you.

01:22:33.940 Thank you.

01:23:03.940 Thank you.

01:23:33.940 Thank you.

kinsellacast - July 06, 2025

KINSELLACAST 369： Music by haters - plus smart talk with Lilley, Batra, Pierson, Mulroney - and tunes from Sleater-Kenney, Bratakus, The Chisel, Jog, Homefront, Hot Chip

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