kinsellacast - July 20, 2025


KINSELLACAST 371： Conspiracies R Us with Lilley, Mulroney, Mark, Chapin - plus Muncho, Wine Lips, Bodega NYC and more


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 6 minutes

Words per Minute

157.78577

Word Count

10,440

Sentence Count

11

Misogynist Sentences

9

Hate Speech Sentences

29


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 it's the Kinsella cast starring Warren Kinsella
00:00:08.400 hey it's Warren welcome to the Kinsella cast it's a summertime Kinsella cast slightly shorter
00:00:24.120 show with Brian Lilly and I talking about politics John Mark CKTB talking about rock
00:00:30.060 and roll villain all of that mess and Ben Moroni and Chris Chapin and I talking about politics
00:00:37.440 got some great music for you as well a couple Canadian bands of note one Muncho which is
00:00:45.240 really just one guy Andrew Mazzaroli in Vancouver does the stuff in his bedroom his song hardest
00:00:51.120 part I've got a song called electric lady by wine lips you've probably heard about kind of an off
00:00:59.580 again on again project by some Toronto musicians really good rock and roll tune sweeping promises
00:01:07.560 from Boston we've got as well I think they're now in Kansas or something it's a duo but really good
00:01:15.480 tune by them and then Bodega NYC who is the name implies are from NYC and I've played before
00:01:22.080 and I really love their stuff because the bass sound that they achieve you'll hear on all four
00:01:30.600 of the songs this week the bass is kind of a definitive instrument when I play it badly it's
00:01:38.400 I believe bass is a rhythm instrument and but these guys these tunes that you can hear the bass
00:01:45.260 contributing to the melody and much more up front in the song and pretty cool as a result so
00:01:51.740 more than a decade ago in 2014 I think a couple of University of Chicago guys published a study about
00:02:00.100 conspiracy theories and their investigation which a lot of people cited focus mainly on Americans but
00:02:07.500 its results I think are applicable to Canadians and Europeans too and for a long time they said
00:02:13.440 you know people have demonstrated high levels of suspicion towards centralized authority and
00:02:18.480 political elites quote-unquote true enough and Americans have long led the way on this sort of
00:02:25.800 paranoia of course post Watergate the paranoia style as it has been called infected American politics
00:02:34.660 and media and even Hollywood movies like in back in 2014 50 percent of Americans believed in at least
00:02:40.940 one conspiracy theory but it's a lot more now yeah and as usual Canadians were a bit late to the party
00:02:49.420 but we started to enthusiastically champion conspiracy theories too and Canadians embraced with the
00:02:56.320 Chicago professors called a general distrust of government and a fear of larger secretive conspiracy so
00:03:03.500 Leger one of the best pollsters around last year no 2023 they reported that 79 percent of Canadians
00:03:11.280 believed in at least one conspiracy theory and the big ones for us up here JFK's assassination was a
00:03:18.860 cover-up a cure for cancer has been found but is being suppressed by government and big pharma
00:03:25.360 princess Diana was assassinated and not simply killed by a drunk guy who was driving too fast and
00:03:31.940 my favorite my personal favorite the mainstream media fabricate what they report having worked for
00:03:39.240 the mainstream media off and on for several decades that last one always slays me those of us who work
00:03:46.500 in the media and politics for that matter can assure you we couldn't put together a decent conspiracy
00:03:51.720 if our lives depended on it like it's a miracle that we remember to walk out of the house wearing shoes
00:03:57.940 anyway in recent years there's been a bunch of conspiracy theories about COVID-19
00:04:03.740 about HIV and AIDS Ebola 5G GMOs climate change tons of others but the hottest conspiracy theory in
00:04:13.440 Canada at the moment and I've written a book about this soon to be available called the hidden hand
00:04:18.980 is that all Jews are immensely powerful and wealthy and that they're covering up a murderous genocide
00:04:26.000 against guiltless childlike angelic Palestinian saints and Leger again say that half the Canadians
00:04:34.680 half Canadians truly believe that Israel is genocidal if you can fucking believe it adherents of this
00:04:41.420 particular conspiracy theory like all conspiracy theorists are not interested in facts and the facts
00:04:49.120 are well if Jews were as all-powerful as the haters claim wouldn't they be able to stop bad people
00:04:55.380 from shooting up their schools and firebombing their synagogues and trying to kill them like if they were
00:05:00.940 so controlling couldn't they have gotten Hamas and Hezbollah to stop you know murdering them
00:05:05.780 anyway all of which brings us to the conspiracy theory of the moment the Jeffrey Epstein files
00:05:13.660 the MAGA movement is incensed we're told and President Donald Trump could lose the presidency to the
00:05:21.500 perception that he's covering up information about the deceased millionaire pedophile and you know I'm
00:05:28.020 no fan of Donald Trump as you guys know but I don't quite get what the fuss is all about Trump and
00:05:33.820 Epstein were pals the internet is packed with photos of the two of them leering at females who were in
00:05:41.060 fact girls like it's not exactly front page news Trump and Epstein hung out together and they were
00:05:47.080 fucking creeps like a civil jury 2023 found that Trump had indeed sexually abused sexually assaulted
00:05:54.620 a woman many years before another jury in a criminal case last year ruled that Trump had paid hush money
00:06:02.360 to cover up an affair with a porn star while his wife was pregnant like I say Trump is a pervert like
00:06:10.900 that's not exactly a revelation so why then are prominent conservatives like Elon Musk or Marjorie
00:06:19.520 Taylor Greene or some of Trump's own appointees at the FBI why are they so worked up about Epstein and
00:06:25.480 Trump because it's not about sexual wrongdoing in my opinion the Epstein conspiracy theory is not about
00:06:33.300 sex it's about an invisible cabal of powerful elite scheming to prevent the truth from coming out
00:06:39.700 it's about secretive elitist Illuminati somewhere out in the ether conniving to keep the Epstein client
00:06:46.640 list which I guarantee you does not exist to keep it from being disclosed the irony of course is that
00:06:54.520 Donald Trump did this to himself he didn't just fib he polarized on Epstein and on so many other things
00:07:02.120 he said they're not they're not they're not just lying to you they're evil but is with January 6th
00:07:09.060 and vaccines and mail-in ballots Trump has lit a fire that now threatens to consume him it won't
00:07:17.100 probably however why because there's one thing that Donald Trump is better at than peddling
00:07:23.160 conspiracy theories and that's changing the channel Trump will have all of us talking about a new
00:07:29.480 conspiracy theory by this time next week guaranteed
00:07:33.240 you
00:07:53.160 I sit here I wonder what is my one desire she's missing my number I need to light that fire I want it I need it
00:08:20.160 I'm going to have you find it I'm going so crazy without my legislator
00:08:31.160 legislator
00:08:38.160 legislator
00:08:41.160 legislator
00:08:42.160 legislator
00:08:45.160 legislator
00:08:47.160 legislator
00:09:01.160 legislator
00:09:02.160 legislator
00:09:05.160 legislator
00:09:12.160 legislator
00:09:13.160 I treasure, I cannot live without
00:09:17.780 I pray for you, to find you
00:09:22.240 The thing can't keep me from you
00:09:25.900 But you can't play, my baby
00:09:28.680 My heart, you let you lay me
00:09:33.160 Let you lay me
00:09:40.480 Let you lay me
00:09:44.120 Let you lay me
00:09:48.000 Let you lay me
00:10:10.480 Let me lay me
00:10:19.640 Let me lay me
00:10:23.640 Let me lay me
00:10:27.280 Let me lay me
00:10:31.000 Let me lay me
00:10:34.120 All right, we're back, we're back with Brian Lilley
00:10:37.800 and uh it's kind of a rainy day in the summertime but it's so rain in toronto rain in the county
00:10:43.660 and it's like a good thing isn't it it is so i started writing this morning um for a piece that
00:10:50.920 i posted and i was like it's raining by the time i was finished it was sunny we went on a walk with
00:10:56.240 chloe it was sunny then it started drizzling on us again now it looks like it's going to threaten
00:11:00.560 rain but i'm going to the blue jays game so rain or not i'm going to have fun this afternoon that's
00:11:06.180 good we'll enjoy your 16 hot dog or whatever it is it's actually probably more than that
00:11:13.420 um so uh there was another uh big meeting not involving blue jays in ottawa this week at the
00:11:21.120 museum of civilization the prime minister and pco summoned all of uh or a lot of the the first
00:11:28.300 nations chiefs from across canada and then guys like you and me were shuffled out after the prime
00:11:34.460 minister made his comments about listening and he was going to listen and he was interested in
00:11:40.300 listening to what they have to say and then i am reliably told that a lot of the first nations
00:11:45.940 chief said hey pal you we don't think you're listening to us at all we're very concerned about
00:11:51.620 c5 and other stuff and um we're not super happy so what did you hear about the meeting with the pm and
00:12:00.440 and where do you think c5 is going to end up going well it's going to be challenged in court you and i
00:12:07.160 were talking about that on the full comment podcast a week or so ago and i remember you saying you didn't
00:12:12.300 think that court challenges would be successful but maybe after hearing what you did about the meeting
00:12:17.520 that might have changed um look there's definitely opposition to it is it something that has to happen
00:12:24.180 uh i think so um in in fact i would go further i'm one of the people that believes a lot of the
00:12:30.980 trudeau era policies that are so bad for development in this country should just be repealed and there's
00:12:37.040 a way to do consultations with first nations group and bring them in as equity partners and all of those
00:12:41.820 things without some of the bad legislation that's still there but carney chose to go this route and
00:12:48.380 what i was writing about earlier today and folks can find it on my socials is that there's just two
00:12:55.500 questions that keep being asked all summer how is mark carney doing and what will happen with pierre
00:13:01.800 polly and on how is carney doing thing it really comes down to it depends like you know i know liberals
00:13:10.820 are high-fiving each other and talking about how great things are but the people that matter the
00:13:16.600 swing voters the people that you know give gave them that extra edge to put them in office they're
00:13:21.380 going to want to see some deliverables premiers are going to want to see some deliverables first
00:13:25.880 nations leaders will want to see can he deliver and on c5 he's promising both consultation but also
00:13:33.620 that we'll build these big national projects um you know if you listen to danielle smith he's got until
00:13:42.240 september to start showing what he plans to do like he has to deliver at a certain point and i'd say
00:13:50.300 between september and december there's a whole pile of things he's got to deliver on from the national
00:13:55.900 projects that he promised with c5 uh you know to at least show that there's some movement on that
00:14:01.100 he's promised to rein in government spending and uh you know cut regulation and trim the size of the
00:14:11.540 civil service but he's also having like a 92 billion dollar record-setting deficit and then he's got the
00:14:18.340 whole trump thing can he deliver on that he's made a lot of big promises but as uh simon and garfunkel
00:14:25.320 said that's worth a pocket full of mumbles um you know is it lies in jest it's a bridge over
00:14:33.740 treasure it's a bridge over trouble it's the boxer it's the boxer so let me introduce simon and garfunkel
00:14:39.380 to your podcast but we could go on like this for quite some time i think um but yeah so but the
00:14:46.560 polling shows trouble but the polling shows uh some of which i've seen um some of which you've seen
00:14:55.140 that it there's this weird dichotomy where canadians are all for are they're like you
00:15:01.100 that you know they're all for getting our our resources to market and diversifying our economy
00:15:07.180 and all that good stuff but they've got a bit of a hold back about well you can't do it and trample
00:15:12.440 over indigenous constitutional rights and you we don't want you wrecking the environment and it
00:15:17.460 it seems to me that that kind of places carney at the at the center of a contradiction it's like
00:15:24.200 i'm not quite sure how he can do both what do you think well he's got to tell the right story you
00:15:30.360 know like um you know we just started exporting loquified natural gas to asia yeah wonderful news
00:15:39.000 yeah decade behind where we should be yeah um here's the good news stories to sell another
00:15:44.700 pipeline for that you want to reduce global emissions and we keep being told oh emissions
00:15:50.040 don't recognize borders okay then take canadian liquefied natural gas export even more of it to
00:15:56.820 asia and to europe get them off coal and that will reduce emissions by more than eliminating all of
00:16:04.440 canada's emissions we could actually do that uh it would be the equivalent of removing canada from
00:16:10.860 the face of the earth emissions wise uh you know embrace that story that the conservatives have been
00:16:17.580 trying to tell for years that the trudeau liberals didn't care about i think carney does you know he's
00:16:23.420 much more pragmatic um embrace that story tell it and you'll have canadians on side and along the way
00:16:31.040 you make the first nations groups that are if it's on their land goes through their land
00:16:37.360 um well then they become equity partners make them partners yeah exactly um in your sub stack and i
00:16:44.580 encourage everybody to seek out the brian lilly sub stack which is a great read and it's got all kinds
00:16:51.080 of great facts and opinion stuff in it very quickly on polyev i i've i'd resolved not to pick on him this
00:16:58.620 week but i thought you know you when i read your sub stack i thought well we should probably make
00:17:02.920 mention have you heard anything about any uh drive to drive him out or is there anything no dramatic
00:17:10.720 and new it seems kind of quiet doesn't it jenny burns staying put uh yeah jenny burn is staying put
00:17:16.860 um you know my view on that is if you're going to keep the same leader in the same leadership team
00:17:22.860 around him then they've got to learn and pivot it's just like when you know uh the you know are
00:17:28.900 they going to be the leafs who go to the playoffs lose and then don't change for next year so that
00:17:34.160 they can win um if you don't change uh you know and alter it's just like sports it's just like any
00:17:40.920 team sport yeah okay well we got to make some tweaks you can make the tweaks great uh no real
00:17:46.840 drive to get him out a lot of questions about him um and kind of like currently people are waiting to
00:17:53.500 see and i i figure you know he's got to get over 70 in the by-election to not be wounded um obviously
00:18:03.220 if he gets 65 he'll win his seat but then he's going to have questions heading into the leadership
00:18:08.760 review so i figure he's got to get above 70 in both of those damian couric won uh the most recent
00:18:15.420 election in battle river crowfoot with 82.8 percent of vote he won in 2021 uh with 71.3 so
00:18:24.940 he's he's the guy who gave up his seat for for to run so in in that playground that's where uh
00:18:31.560 you know polyeth has to be if he's below that he's in trouble and then if he's below that at the
00:18:37.320 leadership um trouble you know for all those people screaming that doug ford's holding his uh
00:18:43.240 convention at the same time uh is polyeth if you support pierre you should be happy about that
00:18:48.060 exactly so it'll keep all the folks from ontario who prefer ford to polyeth busy and they're not
00:18:56.360 going to organize and they're not going to try and you know vote them out speaking of organizing
00:19:00.620 speaking of organizing let's turn i know and i apologize to everybody in the west and the east
00:19:07.200 but you know toronto is the center of the universe and its mayor has more power than a lot of provincial
00:19:13.560 premiers so they're pulling out this week showing olivia chow is going to win again uh even against
00:19:20.000 john torrey john torrey would be nipping at her heels and then the other possible candidates much
00:19:26.060 further back what are you hearing about the mayoral race about canada's one of the largest cities in the
00:19:32.060 world well what are you hearing uh so yes i'm my understanding is chow wants to to push ahead um
00:19:40.520 you know the progress toronto folks which is a you know far left group that organizes around them we
00:19:45.800 don't have parties at the municipal level in toronto but we should uh they're organizing for her and
00:19:52.200 around her they're going to keep supporting her that's what helped her win last time uh toronto's
00:19:57.240 hamlet i mean john torrey still can't make up his mind um i'm i'm serious so like i i'm talking to
00:20:06.020 people who met with him within the last week yeah who say well he he told me you know he hasn't made
00:20:12.780 up his mind and he doesn't need to until next summer and then i talked to somebody else in there like
00:20:16.880 yeah so uh torrey's internal polling shows that he could beat chow in a one-on-one race it's like oh
00:20:23.760 okay come on make up your mind and i said that in a piece recently that it's just unfair what
00:20:30.820 torrey's doing because there's a lot of other candidates who would occupy the same space that
00:20:35.340 would like to run but they don't know if hamlet is in or out and you know if he's doing this for ego
00:20:42.780 whereas people around him are doing this because they believe that this makes them relevant again
00:20:47.860 that's not the right reason and we need change at the city uh level in toronto it's a very poorly
00:20:55.360 run city right now it doesn't look as good as it should and i know some of your listeners are
00:20:59.660 thinking it's horrible no matter what but oh no it's it's really bad i mean this week you know the
00:21:05.360 terrible murder of the woman in her 70s just going out to get her groceries like just some you know
00:21:12.340 it's like gotham and crime housing just how the city looks the encampments in the parks the open
00:21:20.740 drug use everywhere you know these things need dealt with and uh and we need a mayor to do it you
00:21:29.000 know i like uh you know olivia i know olivia and you know i like her as a person i just think she's
00:21:33.940 been a terrible mayor and she's got to be because she's got to be defeated i i like both john
00:21:39.880 and olivia chow personally they're very nice people known them both a long time but i had to
00:21:45.800 write a column a little while ago saying she has to go but he's not the answer and here's why um and
00:21:51.480 just went through what the policies of each of them have done to the city and you know they may not
00:21:56.840 like what i've written but i backed it all up with facts and folks can find that column on the sun's
00:22:02.440 website and i had linked to the city data and everything else it's it's unreal what's happened in the
00:22:09.240 city over the last decade no and you can't argue with what you've said one thing that people do
00:22:14.120 uh argue about is conspiracy theories and a lot of argument taking place in the united states these
00:22:20.060 days over the so-called epstein files i've got a piece in post media this weekend where i actually
00:22:25.780 kind of defend donald trump and say what's the big deal everybody knew that he was a creep what you
00:22:30.740 know this isn't news what what do you think about the epstein stuff do you think it really can harm
00:22:36.040 trump in the way that some are speculating i think you can um because he he promised over and over
00:22:43.840 again that he would release the whole file and now he's saying no and if it's because so alan
00:22:51.540 dershowitz who at one point was epstein's lawyer back in his trial in like 2007 2008 whatever that was
00:22:58.540 yeah so he saw the discovery and my understanding is dershowitz went in because he was asked to and
00:23:05.420 and then he sees what's in there and well you know you don't like it but you're the lawyer you're you're
00:23:10.780 in charge so he said most of the names that are on he said first of all there is no epstein list
00:23:16.500 like he did not have a client list is what he uh said there is a list that was put together by the
00:23:23.040 fbi for their investigation um he said almost all the names that he saw in discovery they're already
00:23:30.540 out there they're in the media they're in you know well-established used reports and he said there's
00:23:35.220 not going to be much that you would find there now that said if you don't if you promise transparency
00:23:41.240 and and said obviously there's a cover-up and we'll we'll tell you what the truth is and then you
00:23:47.160 don't release it you're not transparent you're gonna be annoying a lot of people so it's a real
00:23:52.340 fighting mega world um i i don't fully get the obsession with it but um yeah just just open
00:24:01.800 these things up and and be honest with folks they released more of the jfk files and the rfk files
00:24:08.880 and you know didn't earn a whole lot no it was a big snooze it's a big snooze these this is how you
00:24:15.280 feed a conspiracy as opposed to get rid of it exactly it's the watergate rule it's never the break-in
00:24:20.500 it's always the cover-up so maybe the cover-up's hurting them well brian nilly thank you so much
00:24:26.160 sir for taking time on this rainy possibly sunny day um have a wonderful day and a wonderful
00:24:32.960 week you too talk soon
00:24:34.740 i fell on city black in a stove i seen
00:24:42.200 represent the tide how did i murder murder murder
00:24:48.180 then i will play romantic histories
00:24:52.460 i thought i was such a revolutionary i thought city's taken but not by me city's taken but not me
00:25:08.120 we're all just as yes before a cuss a spectre and potato's dough left a hollering when rocking
00:25:23.580 oh oh oh oh oh ho oh oh oh whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa
00:25:27.420 RI� duoude really that's fine and the mystery of single mind against community who think such a revolutionary
00:25:38.860 you think city is taken but not by me
00:25:43.780 city is taken but not me
00:25:47.860 Chaser's not my friend, yet he follows me from every corner
00:26:13.060 My footsteps are with more than my music
00:26:16.480 To be a muse, to use and be used
00:26:20.560 And I'm using my naivete
00:26:23.760 Just another pawn in the game
00:26:28.160 Just another one in the same
00:26:32.240 And I'm using my equivalent formula
00:26:39.400 To be a place where it is
00:26:40.640 This is what she meets
00:26:42.640 I'm using my Republic of Burt
00:26:43.040 I'm using my membership
00:26:45.680 As soon as I加
00:26:54.860 The great anointed prophet preached
00:27:15.200 To the garden of the gaily implored
00:27:18.440 Singing by the street, master, praise the past ever after
00:27:23.360 Pack your bags and move to Detroit
00:27:26.120 Pack your bags and move to Detroit
00:27:30.160 The great anointed prophet preached
00:27:35.180 To the garden of the gaily implored
00:27:38.380 Singing by the street, master, praise the past ever after
00:27:43.400 Pack your bags and move to Detroit
00:27:46.200 Pack your bags and move to Detroit
00:27:53.360 This is John Gonto on the voice of Niagara 610 CKTV
00:28:06.800 Text this now at 905-688-2582
00:28:15.440 I wanted to talk to this guy about this for some time now
00:28:21.000 As it's been unfolding
00:28:22.800 He's a lawyer, writer, political commentator
00:28:25.880 Writes for the Toronto Sun
00:28:27.920 Former aide to Prime Minister Jean Chrétien
00:28:30.500 And founder of the Daisy Consulting Group
00:28:33.340 Thanks for joining us Warren
00:28:34.560 Thanks for having me
00:28:36.400 So I wanted to talk to you about this
00:28:39.380 Because I know of your love of punk music
00:28:42.320 And I know how you've been defending
00:28:44.560 What's going on, you know, for a lot of our Jewish friends
00:28:48.620 On the streets and around the world
00:28:50.940 And, you know, what do you think about this whole thing?
00:28:53.860 Some of your favorite bands are the ones
00:28:55.480 That are famous for rattling the cage
00:28:57.320 How does this make it different?
00:29:00.420 I think it makes it different
00:29:01.620 Even if you're a punk, if you're in a band
00:29:04.980 Like, you know, when you're in a band
00:29:06.700 When you're a musician or you love that kind of music
00:29:09.520 It's good, you know, to want to rattle your parents
00:29:14.340 And your teachers and institutions
00:29:17.140 But there are limits
00:29:18.980 And, you know, those limits include
00:29:21.520 Anti-Semitism and racism
00:29:23.260 So, you know, I love punk rock
00:29:25.720 And I have my own punk record label
00:29:27.960 And I've been in a punk band since I was 15 years old
00:29:30.540 But I always knew
00:29:32.180 Even when I was 15
00:29:33.660 That Sid Vicious wearing a swastika t-shirt was wrong
00:29:37.200 Or Susie Sue wearing a swastika armband was wrong
00:29:41.080 And, you know, if you're involved in music
00:29:45.640 You should be interested in lifting people up
00:29:48.100 Not knocking people down
00:29:49.720 Yeah, I'm guessing you're probably not easily offended
00:29:53.680 That's my guess
00:29:55.140 I know I'm not when it comes to music
00:29:57.220 I am not
00:29:57.980 Yeah
00:29:59.300 So, when did you first see that Glastonbury performance?
00:30:03.920 Was it on the news or did you watch the event?
00:30:06.860 And what was your take initially when you saw Bob Villain?
00:30:10.600 And perhaps, well, they didn't air kneecaps
00:30:12.820 So, I guess you didn't see them
00:30:14.180 But when did you first see it?
00:30:16.960 You know, Bob Villain, I played their stuff on my own show
00:30:22.260 On my podcast
00:30:23.240 And I knew what he was like
00:30:26.020 And, you know, it's kind of this fusion of rap and punk
00:30:30.120 More, I think, rap than anything else
00:30:32.380 And, you know, the angry young man piece
00:30:35.360 I get it
00:30:36.000 And then when I heard about this death, death to the IDF
00:30:39.800 And like in Israel, you know, if you're 18 years old
00:30:42.360 You have to serve in the armed forces
00:30:44.420 So, if you're saying death to the IDF, you're basically saying
00:30:47.080 Death to Jews
00:30:48.480 You know, kill a Jew
00:30:50.300 And I just couldn't believe it
00:30:53.300 And I saw the footage
00:30:55.240 Saw that he had said that
00:30:57.300 Kneecap, I wasn't surprised
00:30:59.280 You know, they're the Northern Ireland band from Belfast
00:31:02.440 And they've always been bastards
00:31:05.440 And they've always said all kinds of things that are just not right
00:31:10.520 But I was surprised by Bob Villain
00:31:12.960 So I wrote to them
00:31:13.900 And I just said, look, guys
00:31:14.920 You know, I've had you on my show
00:31:16.120 And I've supported you
00:31:17.800 I've bought your music
00:31:18.780 No longer
00:31:19.460 You know, you
00:31:20.260 You've become as bad as the neo-Nazi skinheads
00:31:23.440 That, you know, you attack in your songs
00:31:25.520 You should know better
00:31:26.720 Shame on you
00:31:27.680 Seems to me that there was a lot more satire
00:31:31.780 And a little bit of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge
00:31:34.100 With some of these bands that we're talking about right now
00:31:37.020 Like the Sex Pistols and the Ramones and the Dead Kennedys
00:31:39.860 There just seemed to be a little more artful
00:31:42.320 You know, they left it up to the imagination
00:31:44.780 Although they talked about fascism and things like that, of course
00:31:48.100 But, you know, God Save the Queen
00:31:49.840 One of the most, if not the most, controversial songs in punk rock history
00:31:54.020 You know, again, what's the difference?
00:31:56.960 I believe the difference is they never went and said you go kill somebody, right?
00:32:01.400 Exactly
00:32:01.800 I encourage everybody to do what you've done
00:32:04.460 Go and look at the lyrics to God Save the Queen
00:32:07.080 There's no question it was controversial
00:32:08.580 Came out August 1977
00:32:12.120 I got the first pressing of it
00:32:14.240 And, you know, Rotten, the front guy for the Pistols at that point
00:32:21.500 You know, he's talking about getting wasted and destroying
00:32:25.460 And, you know, all that kind of stuff
00:32:28.080 But he doesn't talk about killing people
00:32:29.660 And I've interviewed him many times over the years
00:32:33.060 And, you know, he's a real piece of work
00:32:35.140 But he does emphasize, like Strummer did in The Clash
00:32:38.620 And like Joey Ramone did in The Ramones
00:32:40.940 Is at the end of the day, you know, if you're a punk
00:32:44.440 Or, you know, you believe in the power of music
00:32:46.820 It's the power to heal and bring people together
00:32:49.980 And celebrate differences
00:32:51.600 And, you know, to lift people up, like I say
00:32:55.420 And not to knock them down
00:32:57.380 And that is the difference
00:32:58.900 I think you're absolutely right
00:33:00.400 A lot of the newer bands
00:33:02.320 Not a lot of them
00:33:03.480 But some of them
00:33:04.440 Have just decided to go to, you know
00:33:08.040 This distant land
00:33:09.340 This point where nobody's gone before
00:33:11.560 You know, maybe to sell units
00:33:13.580 I don't know
00:33:14.360 But it's like, guys, man
00:33:16.660 You're just
00:33:17.280 You shouldn't do that, you know
00:33:19.080 You're not supposed to be talking about killing people
00:33:21.520 Like, that's just not
00:33:22.800 What we're supposed to be doing in music
00:33:24.980 And unfortunately, some of them are
00:33:26.700 Yeah, there's been some results
00:33:29.720 Some reaction to that
00:33:31.540 It blew up in their face quite a bit
00:33:33.000 Bob Villain has lost a bunch of dates
00:33:35.580 In Britain, France, Germany
00:33:37.360 Their agents dropped them
00:33:39.940 Their visa for the U.S. got lifted
00:33:42.540 So not a good career move
00:33:44.280 No matter how you slice this or dice this
00:33:46.500 And they still have some Canadian dates here
00:33:49.260 I know there's Montreal and Toronto in late September
00:33:52.220 Now, will Canada intercede?
00:33:55.600 Should they intercede?
00:33:58.080 Yeah, I think they should
00:33:59.140 Like, I'm not clear as to whether
00:34:00.960 Those dates were actually going ahead
00:34:03.460 I knew that they were a support act
00:34:05.660 For kneecap in the States
00:34:07.440 And you know
00:34:08.480 You know, you follow the music business too
00:34:10.520 You know that
00:34:11.800 You can't really sustain a tour on Canada alone
00:34:15.140 You know, you got Vancouver
00:34:16.680 And Montreal and Toronto
00:34:17.740 And that's it
00:34:18.520 You need to have those U.S. dates
00:34:20.860 So losing those U.S. dates
00:34:22.420 I think makes it impossible
00:34:23.700 For them to come to North America
00:34:26.300 So I always question
00:34:27.600 Whether it was going to go ahead
00:34:29.220 But let's say that it does
00:34:30.580 Let's say that
00:34:31.420 You know, they decide
00:34:32.580 They want to come to Canada
00:34:33.800 The Canadian government
00:34:34.940 You don't need to use the criminal law
00:34:37.600 You can use a rule
00:34:39.240 That has been used many times before
00:34:41.960 With neo-Nazis and extremists
00:34:44.280 And people saying hateful things
00:34:46.280 And basically, all you need to do
00:34:48.480 When they apply for a visa
00:34:49.780 Is say
00:34:50.420 We reasonably believe
00:34:52.400 That you are going to commit
00:34:53.820 An indictable offense when you're here
00:34:55.480 Promote hatred
00:34:56.820 You know, willfully promote hatred
00:34:58.780 Against an identifiable group
00:35:00.260 Whether it's Jews or women or blacks
00:35:02.500 And we're not going to let you in
00:35:04.020 That's it
00:35:04.880 And we've done that many times before
00:35:06.740 And I think if these guys
00:35:08.140 Actually do apply for a visa
00:35:09.920 To come to Canada to play
00:35:11.280 That's what we should say
00:35:12.600 It's like, no, no
00:35:13.780 You're not going to play here
00:35:15.280 And NECAP was actually charged
00:35:18.580 They're from Belfast, I believe
00:35:20.240 Charged for waving the Hezbollah flag on stage
00:35:24.140 Which, you know, is
00:35:25.300 That's state-sponsored terrorism, you know
00:35:29.820 And in Britain, it's an offense
00:35:33.000 You're not allowed in Britain
00:35:34.180 To unlock in Canada
00:35:36.320 In Canada, you can get away with it
00:35:37.960 You know, and that's happened
00:35:39.340 Unfortunately, many times
00:35:40.660 Since October 7th
00:35:41.960 Where people have waved Hamas flags
00:35:44.460 Or wear a Hamas headband
00:35:46.280 Or Hezbollah
00:35:46.960 Or what have you
00:35:47.720 You know, Samadun
00:35:49.960 Is a designated terrorist entity
00:35:51.860 And their members are still
00:35:53.060 Swanning around Canada
00:35:54.380 But in Britain
00:35:55.620 You're not allowed to promote
00:35:57.500 A designated terrorist entity
00:35:59.420 And that's what this
00:36:01.200 Allegedly
00:36:01.880 What this nut bar did
00:36:03.700 In NECAP
00:36:05.700 Is he waves around the Hezbollah flag
00:36:07.740 At a gig
00:36:08.240 And they said
00:36:09.960 Sorry, gotcha
00:36:11.280 So I don't know if he's been convicted yet
00:36:13.460 But he's certainly facing a prosecution
00:36:16.060 Yeah, Bob Villain's being investigated too
00:36:19.560 You know, I'm kind of torn by this
00:36:21.860 Because I believe in freedom of speech
00:36:23.740 And I don't want to come off like a boomer here
00:36:26.360 You know, we've had Elvis Presley
00:36:28.400 We've had the Rolling Stones
00:36:29.740 We've had the evil Beatles
00:36:31.200 We've had, you know
00:36:32.220 Judas Priest and Ozzy Osbourne
00:36:34.960 Telling people to commit suicide
00:36:36.480 All these things, you know
00:36:37.640 And I don't want to be
00:36:39.380 Tip or gore on this
00:36:40.620 Or anything like that
00:36:41.420 So we have to pay attention
00:36:42.580 To freedom of speech
00:36:43.480 I don't quite see it being
00:36:45.560 Something that
00:36:46.640 I think it needs to be
00:36:48.900 They need to rap on the knuckles
00:36:50.460 But it warned about
00:36:51.720 The implications of what they're doing
00:36:53.520 But I'd hate to see it go to
00:36:54.980 The length of them
00:36:57.700 Actually being charged for this
00:37:00.060 To be honest with you
00:37:00.800 What do you think about that?
00:37:02.800 Well, I
00:37:03.200 Look, you know
00:37:04.260 I'm still in a band
00:37:05.480 Whose name I can't even say
00:37:07.340 On your show
00:37:08.080 You know
00:37:09.100 So
00:37:09.440 Yeah
00:37:11.280 I
00:37:11.680 You know
00:37:12.320 I believe rock and roll
00:37:13.380 I believe punk rock
00:37:14.360 You know
00:37:14.740 Is
00:37:15.120 Sometimes it needs to offend
00:37:16.780 To get a
00:37:17.420 Message across
00:37:18.760 But
00:37:19.700 Like saying you want people killed
00:37:22.000 That's just not right
00:37:24.320 And
00:37:25.240 That's not
00:37:26.060 What music is supposed to do
00:37:27.960 So I'm with you
00:37:28.980 Like
00:37:29.220 Using the criminal law
00:37:30.620 To deal with speech
00:37:31.760 Is always something
00:37:33.180 We should do
00:37:34.080 With great, great care
00:37:35.660 Like that is
00:37:36.460 The ultimate hammer
00:37:37.520 And
00:37:38.720 You know
00:37:39.800 Sometimes you can turn
00:37:40.940 The wrongdoer
00:37:41.740 Into a martyr
00:37:42.500 So you've got to be
00:37:43.540 Very careful
00:37:44.400 Using that state power
00:37:46.020 That's why I say
00:37:47.900 In the case of
00:37:49.520 Bob Villan
00:37:50.900 You know
00:37:51.280 We don't have to
00:37:52.500 Charge them criminally
00:37:53.560 We just say
00:37:54.300 Hey fellas
00:37:54.920 Look
00:37:55.400 You know
00:37:55.980 We don't want you here
00:37:57.940 And Australia did the same thing
00:38:00.120 To
00:38:00.680 To Kanye
00:38:01.760 Just a few days ago
00:38:03.380 It got missed
00:38:04.060 In the Bob Villan story
00:38:05.280 Kanye's got family members
00:38:07.140 In Australia
00:38:07.840 And they said to him
00:38:09.040 You know what
00:38:09.520 We've had it
00:38:10.220 The Hitler single
00:38:11.260 That you released
00:38:12.160 That was a bridge too far
00:38:14.160 You're not allowed
00:38:15.180 To come to Australia anymore
00:38:16.440 So countries can do things
00:38:18.480 That don't use
00:38:19.320 The criminal law
00:38:20.360 You know
00:38:21.040 And potentially result
00:38:22.160 In people going to jail
00:38:23.220 They can express
00:38:24.540 Disapproval
00:38:25.440 In ways that
00:38:26.480 Are less serious
00:38:27.920 And I agree with you
00:38:29.280 That's applicable
00:38:30.000 In this case
00:38:30.820 Well the BBC's
00:38:32.800 Getting grilled for this
00:38:33.740 For not cutting the cord
00:38:34.840 Once the death
00:38:35.700 Death to the IDF
00:38:36.860 Chance came up
00:38:37.800 And you qualified it right
00:38:39.780 Because everybody
00:38:40.720 Has to serve
00:38:41.840 In Israel
00:38:43.020 And so that
00:38:44.180 Exactly is like
00:38:45.380 Saying death
00:38:46.340 Death to Jews
00:38:47.200 Right
00:38:47.680 Jews
00:38:48.100 You know
00:38:48.660 That's basically
00:38:49.340 What it's coming down to
00:38:50.240 Now but
00:38:51.000 Are the BBC
00:38:51.840 Do you see them
00:38:53.100 As soft
00:38:53.640 Like the CBC
00:38:54.380 I mean
00:38:54.720 They won't even call
00:38:55.740 Hamas terrorists
00:38:58.140 They call them
00:38:58.720 Freedom fighters
00:38:59.400 I see them
00:39:00.240 As being soft
00:39:01.220 Yeah
00:39:02.560 I think BBC
00:39:03.660 I mean there's going
00:39:04.880 To be an inquiry
00:39:05.540 But BBC's got
00:39:06.520 One of the biggest
00:39:07.220 Anti-Semitism problems
00:39:08.620 In the western world
00:39:09.960 For a news organization
00:39:11.280 And so
00:39:14.040 Like
00:39:14.920 And Glastow too
00:39:16.420 Like Glastow
00:39:17.240 Just for people
00:39:17.900 Who aren't aware
00:39:18.380 Is the biggest
00:39:19.080 Rock and roll festival
00:39:20.040 In the world
00:39:20.600 Like there's nothing
00:39:21.520 Bigger
00:39:22.020 And
00:39:23.140 I just don't believe
00:39:24.800 For a minute
00:39:25.360 That the organizers
00:39:26.280 The families
00:39:27.060 Behind the Glastow
00:39:28.260 Festival
00:39:28.720 Were unaware
00:39:30.060 Of what Bob
00:39:31.560 Villain was like
00:39:32.500 Or kneecap
00:39:33.420 Right
00:39:33.800 I think they knew
00:39:34.520 Exactly what
00:39:35.340 Both bands
00:39:36.080 Were likely to do
00:39:37.540 You know
00:39:38.260 They only issued
00:39:38.940 Their statement
00:39:39.620 Disapproving of
00:39:40.840 What Bob Villain
00:39:42.060 Said
00:39:42.560 You know
00:39:43.180 After the cops
00:39:43.920 Got involved
00:39:44.620 So
00:39:45.600 BBC
00:39:46.660 Not cutting away
00:39:48.060 In time
00:39:48.620 For me
00:39:50.040 It'd be the same
00:39:50.660 Sort of criticism
00:39:51.400 It's like
00:39:51.820 Look boys and girls
00:39:52.720 You knew
00:39:53.140 What this band
00:39:53.860 Was like
00:39:54.460 You knew
00:39:55.180 There was a possibility
00:39:56.280 A strong possibility
00:39:57.320 Of something
00:39:58.000 Going off the rails
00:39:59.000 You should have
00:40:00.060 Been able to cut away
00:40:01.040 Like
00:40:01.320 I mean
00:40:01.760 You're in the radio
00:40:02.420 Business right
00:40:03.120 Sometimes you
00:40:04.120 Have guests on
00:40:05.780 That you've got
00:40:06.540 To put on a delay
00:40:07.460 Right
00:40:08.000 You know
00:40:08.380 In case they
00:40:09.060 You know
00:40:09.840 Say
00:40:10.180 Maybe you're doing
00:40:11.040 That with me
00:40:11.500 Right now
00:40:12.020 Right
00:40:12.240 I don't know
00:40:12.680 If we have you
00:40:13.320 On a delay
00:40:13.820 Right now
00:40:14.380 Or not
00:40:14.760 Okay
00:40:15.160 I won't swear
00:40:15.780 I promise
00:40:16.480 I will not swear
00:40:17.900 But I mean
00:40:19.600 You've got to
00:40:20.460 Use judgment
00:40:21.020 Right
00:40:21.280 It's a public
00:40:22.020 Airwaves
00:40:22.800 Like the airwaves
00:40:23.820 Belong
00:40:24.380 As you know
00:40:24.880 Better than me
00:40:25.620 The airwaves
00:40:27.240 Belong to the public
00:40:28.440 They don't belong
00:40:29.100 To the companies
00:40:29.860 And so
00:40:31.160 You know
00:40:32.100 When you're
00:40:32.600 Showing
00:40:33.120 Glass though
00:40:33.880 You're showing
00:40:34.580 To millions
00:40:35.700 Of people
00:40:36.240 Around the world
00:40:37.100 You've got to
00:40:37.940 Have your finger
00:40:38.460 On the button
00:40:39.040 Just in case
00:40:39.780 Things go crazy
00:40:41.180 And they did
00:40:41.760 And they weren't ready
00:40:43.580 So they're going to
00:40:44.120 Pay a price for that
00:40:44.940 For sure
00:40:45.380 Is this different
00:40:48.060 Than the 60s
00:40:49.280 When the kids
00:40:50.040 Rose up against
00:40:51.000 Vietnam
00:40:51.440 And we had
00:40:52.220 Kent State University
00:40:53.720 And all this
00:40:54.520 Kind of thing
00:40:55.080 Is it the same
00:40:55.880 Kind of thing
00:40:56.340 Or is there
00:40:56.640 A different
00:40:57.100 Different layer
00:40:58.340 To this
00:40:58.840 I think the
00:41:00.360 Different layer
00:41:00.920 To it is
00:41:01.540 You know
00:41:01.940 Kent State
00:41:02.760 So May 5th
00:41:03.960 1970
00:41:04.640 You know
00:41:05.080 Four kids
00:41:05.760 Were killed
00:41:06.160 For protesting
00:41:07.120 The war
00:41:08.060 Protesting violence
00:41:09.240 Violence was used
00:41:10.220 Against them
00:41:11.040 And in that case
00:41:12.640 You know
00:41:13.080 I was never
00:41:13.620 Into kind of
00:41:15.000 60s music
00:41:16.360 I was a punk
00:41:17.240 But you know
00:41:18.720 We opposed war
00:41:19.900 Too
00:41:20.220 We opposed violence
00:41:21.440 Too
00:41:21.860 And you know
00:41:23.100 That's what we
00:41:23.660 Learned at the
00:41:24.200 Knee of the
00:41:24.660 Clash
00:41:25.140 And all of
00:41:26.260 Those bands
00:41:27.000 And I think
00:41:28.760 That is the
00:41:29.340 Difference here
00:41:30.220 Is for a whole
00:41:31.300 Number of issues
00:41:32.440 It has become
00:41:34.160 Violence has become
00:41:35.520 Legitimized as a
00:41:36.680 Form of expression
00:41:37.660 And you know
00:41:40.100 Promoting violence
00:41:41.300 And so the
00:41:42.620 Question is
00:41:43.300 Okay well
00:41:43.800 Does it
00:41:44.320 If violence
00:41:45.280 Is expressed
00:41:45.940 In art
00:41:46.580 Does it
00:41:47.320 Happen in real
00:41:48.180 Life
00:41:48.600 And I think
00:41:49.440 The answer is
00:41:50.200 Well take a
00:41:50.880 Look at
00:41:51.160 Washington D.C.
00:41:52.600 Take a look
00:41:53.120 At Boulder
00:41:53.520 Colorado
00:41:54.200 It did
00:41:55.280 You know
00:41:55.840 In both cases
00:41:56.980 Anti-Semitism
00:41:58.680 Led to the
00:41:59.960 Deaths of a
00:42:00.800 Number of Jews
00:42:01.880 Right out in
00:42:03.320 Broad daylight
00:42:04.180 So you know
00:42:05.640 I think that
00:42:06.360 Yeah sometimes
00:42:07.480 Hateful deeds
00:42:09.460 Are preceded
00:42:10.240 By hateful words
00:42:11.340 And that's why
00:42:12.460 All of us
00:42:12.900 Have to exercise
00:42:13.580 Care and
00:42:14.380 You know
00:42:14.760 Treat each other
00:42:15.480 With respect
00:42:16.260 And decency
00:42:17.380 And whether
00:42:18.140 We're doing it
00:42:18.760 In a song
00:42:19.300 We're doing it
00:42:20.320 In a speech
00:42:20.780 We're doing it
00:42:21.280 In real life
00:42:21.820 We're gonna
00:42:22.200 Be better
00:42:24.060 To each other
00:42:24.780 Sounds like a plan
00:42:26.920 I've promised
00:42:27.540 To get you out
00:42:28.160 At 355
00:42:29.140 So let's do that
00:42:29.880 Thanks for coming
00:42:30.440 On and joining us
00:42:31.200 With this Warren
00:42:31.980 I was dying
00:42:32.360 To talk to you
00:42:32.840 About this
00:42:33.320 Thanks brother
00:42:34.280 Thanks for having me
00:42:35.360 Alright
00:42:35.720 Alright
00:42:36.460 Ladies and gentlemen
00:42:37.340 With Warren Kinsella
00:42:38.200 When I'm with you
00:42:57.460 My heart goes from blue
00:42:59.840 To something that's more
00:43:02.360 I'm sure this feeling
00:43:04.540 Isn't new
00:43:06.320 But I feel it more
00:43:09.280 Now I'm looking through
00:43:13.360 Through the hardest part
00:43:16.640 And it's just me
00:43:38.540 It's plain to see
00:43:40.320 That I could be
00:43:41.320 That I could be more
00:43:43.320 Free to be who I can be
00:43:47.320 And now I feel it more
00:43:50.280 Now I'm working through
00:43:53.320 Don't know what to do
00:44:01.320 I can't seem to make this thing
00:44:06.960 I can't seem to make this thing
00:44:06.980 Be as a star
00:44:09.340 So now I'm working through
00:44:14.320 Through the hardest part
00:44:18.560 We've been doing
00:44:22.480 We're coming through
00:44:23.580 And I feel it more
00:44:27.720 I see how 아닙니다
00:44:28.460 We're up for
00:44:29.460 We're going through
00:44:34.160 We're going through
00:44:35.240 A content story
00:44:37.160 That we're looking through
00:44:38.580 It's just for good
00:44:39.040 To tell you
00:44:39.920 It's just for a part
00:44:40.540 I found out
00:44:40.580 Yeah
00:44:40.800 How are את
00:44:41.400 It's just for a tech
00:44:42.300 But anyway
00:44:43.960 It's a girl
00:44:45.220 It's just for a tekrar
00:44:45.820 you're listening to the ben mulrooney show welcome back to the ben mulrooney show thank you so much
00:44:55.900 for listen it's been a long week and we like to end it in style with people who are far smarter
00:45:00.440 than i uh with our this week in politics friday edition so please welcome to the show chris chape
00:45:05.120 and political commentator managing principal at upstream strategy and warren kinsella former
00:45:09.420 special advisor to jean chretien and the ceo of the daisy group happy friday guys howdy well look
00:45:16.800 you know it takes a long time to write uh the legacy of of a prime minister and that can change
00:45:22.840 over time and you can have uh you can have recency bias for example and so who knows what the
00:45:28.320 ultimately we are going to think of the 10 years of justin trudeau as our prime minister but this
00:45:34.620 early news uh coming out um is is not good this new report that says that ottawa and the spending
00:45:42.260 like a drunken pirate uh under 10 years of justin trudeau was to blame for higher consumer prices
00:45:47.180 not not the bank of canada decisions and this is this is a brick in the wall uh certainly not the
00:45:54.280 only brick uh but it's not a good indicator as to as we move forward and and you see even liberals
00:46:01.180 reversing course on so many decisions that were made by that government i don't know what we're
00:46:06.520 going to say about justin trudeau and his and his liberals um uh 20 30 years from now but as of right
00:46:12.340 now it's not look a good warren you know you're in the you're in the big red tent what do you think
00:46:16.180 well i i think uh we have to be fair to him i mean so cd how so they they tilt conservative
00:46:24.920 and there's no question they're right if you're talking about the 10-year period where justin trudeau
00:46:32.740 was prime minister there's no question that i think that was one of the things that sank him in the
00:46:37.760 end is he was as you point out spinning like the cliched uh drunken sailor however they also go after
00:46:45.780 him for the period the pandemic and um that's where i think in fairness i have to defend him
00:46:53.660 there was not a government in the world including donald trump's that was not also spending like
00:46:59.480 a drunken sailor during the pandemic because we had millions of people around the world dying
00:47:04.440 our health care system was crashing and we had people who could not work so in that period that is
00:47:13.680 properly a role for government that was properly a time for government to be spending above the norm
00:47:20.120 but their criticism about the other years in which trudeau was prime minister that's fair criticism
00:47:26.140 chris uh did uh how do you see it because and i i i take uh warren's sort of measured uh assessment
00:47:32.200 but i i go back to to the the level of spending and what we spent on during the pandemic and i i remember
00:47:39.340 saying like this is a lot of money this i'm i'm seeing it i'm seeing this government but i said if if
00:47:43.540 the end result is that every bridge has been built uh fixed and all of our infrastructure is there
00:47:48.040 and every social program has been properly paid for uh then then i won't necessarily have the
00:47:53.900 problem i have right now and none of that came to pass so i don't know where the money went
00:47:57.400 i don't i don't think anybody knows where the money went ben i think that's you know the reality is
00:48:03.580 listen warren was absolutely spot on like the the spending the country did provinces every province
00:48:08.880 ran deficits during covet it was just something at that time i think became societally acceptable
00:48:13.960 yeah i think like i have flashbacks as soon as you brought this topic up then to like the 2015
00:48:18.620 election campaign and i i can just picture stephen harper on the debates and and in his press
00:48:22.940 topics it's like justin trudeau promises to write teeny tiny deficits modest remember that modest
00:48:28.400 deficits yeah and modest teeny tiny and him just pinching his fingers because that's what justin
00:48:33.420 trudeau promised the truth was you know in the good times we ran huge deficits and in the good times
00:48:39.420 i think justin trudeau's government was fiscally reckless and so in the in the tough times yeah
00:48:45.180 they went even more overboard and and you know we're absolutely all paying the price for that now
00:48:49.260 well let's uh shift our our conversation to to something that always has always made me
00:48:54.860 uncomfortable because i i've i've told you guys before that i i feel like i am part of the majority
00:49:00.500 of canadians who who feel like i was forced out of my very comfortable place being one of those people
00:49:07.000 who is proud of how we've built this country through immigration like it was a point of pride
00:49:12.260 for me that you know we got it right for so many years and we brought in people deserving people
00:49:17.860 who wanted to be here and who helped us build this country without whom canada would not have become
00:49:22.140 the fullest expression of what it was and then i hear stories like this one that have forced me into
00:49:28.440 position of being critical of our immigration system to the point that i think you know that a course
00:49:33.420 correction needs to be made and when i read that one in one case a permanent resident was spared jail
00:49:39.400 time despite aggravating circumstances as it relates to a sex offense he was spared jail time
00:49:46.500 so that his ability to sponsor relatives to come to canada would not be impacted and in another a foreign
00:49:52.320 national in canada on a student visa was given no jail time yet his crimes as related to sort of sexual
00:49:58.100 offenses might still be uh it might still result in his removal from canada but he's still here
00:50:03.500 this to me is so excuse my language ass backwards i i don't know i don't know what to do with this
00:50:12.200 chris you're chuckling no i because i i think any normal person canadian you know whether you were born
00:50:20.560 here whether you immigrated to canada feels the same way ben like there was a there was an agreement
00:50:24.800 there was a social contract if you will in this country that you know you play by the rules and
00:50:29.240 then you hear stories like this and you're just left scratching your head and it's just like you
00:50:33.420 came you came here for a better life and then you know we see stories like this and i i unfortunately i
00:50:38.360 i feel the same way i always you know i i grew up in a you know a bedroom suburb of toronto where you
00:50:43.880 know immigration was you know the key to our our local economy and and now you're sitting here
00:50:48.240 scratching your head and being like this something feels broken and i don't know how we fix it so so
00:50:52.320 warren that the question is to you and you know the legal system as well as anyone is is the issue
00:50:57.120 with judges is the issue with a law is he is the issue with how these crimes are investigated
00:51:02.620 where where is the pain point the most the most glaring one as you see it well it's all of those
00:51:09.620 things you've just identified and michelle rempel garner uh also has identified in social media
00:51:15.880 um and you know like full disclosure ben as ben knows maybe chris does know uh ben and i got in
00:51:22.640 trouble about this a couple years ago when we pointed out when people who were you know kind of
00:51:29.140 pro-hamas anti-israel um you know committing criminal offenses we took the position both ben and i
00:51:36.740 that that they should be deported and uh there's lots of people got mad at us for that but i still have
00:51:44.120 that view because it reflects the law like if you were convicted of a serious convicted of a serious
00:51:51.540 crime you're and you're uh not a citizen your information gets sent to the canadian border
00:51:57.580 services agency and then they commence the process of you know revoking your resident status and like and
00:52:06.420 and for example like even for less serious spells in jail for summary offenses so six months you know
00:52:13.580 or less you can lose your right to appeal and again be deported so like this has been the law in canon and
00:52:21.280 i don't understand why in these two outrageous cases the judge misapplied the judges misapplied the law
00:52:28.940 but that is the rule if you are here and you break the rules of this country if you're here largely as
00:52:35.360 a guest we are entitled to send you away not to give you um you know kind of a get out of jail free
00:52:42.580 card no pun intended where your your actual status is used to your advantage i know that that's the
00:52:49.080 thing that's even that that thing uh warren is is is what is i think the most insulting thing to
00:52:54.220 canadians well it's it's the most insulting thing to to people who came here lawfully
00:52:58.780 and to those of us who play the play by the rules you're caught doing something wrong you're and
00:53:04.700 that should be an automatic pathway to putting your your presence here at risk but it's being
00:53:10.620 turned around and used in the opposite way being said oh well we can't put you in jail because that
00:53:15.480 might that might mean you can't bring more of your family over chris this is this is upside down
00:53:20.360 and and to me look this is this is a new government that wants to show that it is uh it is a different
00:53:26.440 government if it doesn't start addressing things like this quickly i think the stink of of sort of
00:53:31.700 problems from the past might stick to them faster than they expect uh absolutely and i think you
00:53:38.260 know we've talked about this i mean warren's been on you know the right side on this on a couple
00:53:41.520 different times when we've talked about you know judicial issues but i think it i think it like the
00:53:46.280 core issue here is the trust the public has in our courts and and i think that's unfortunately
00:53:51.680 being eroded when you hear decisions like this like you know bail is a whole other issue in this
00:53:56.220 country and and you know warren's brought up before you know maybe we don't have enough jails and so
00:54:00.460 there's pressures on judges to make gut calls but i mean this is this is so far past a a judgment call
00:54:06.700 like there are laws in place you've broken the law you know yeah time to go and if you had told me
00:54:12.660 months ago that this there would be a real schism today within the maga movement over jeffrey epstein
00:54:18.720 i would have asked for the playbook like how did this happen and we're watching it happen in real
00:54:24.060 time um uh warren this started out yeah with with uh donald trump beating the drum on he was going to
00:54:31.040 drain the swamp and epstein was was the the prime example of the swamp and and then he gets in power
00:54:38.200 again after promising to show everybody the dirty laundry and now he's poo-pooing it he's poo-pooing sex
00:54:44.880 trafficking and child uh child abuse and uh at least that's how a lot of the people on the maga side
00:54:51.020 are seeing it and the more he talks the more he tries to dismiss it the worse it sounds for him
00:54:59.000 like what's he supposed to do at this point um he's got a big problem and uh at first i would didn't
00:55:06.360 you know i didn't think it was a big deal the notion that donald trump uh behaved inappropriately
00:55:13.260 wasn't exactly news i mean he's he's a civil jury found that he had sexually assaulted a woman
00:55:20.600 um so that that wasn't the news i was trying to figure out why does this story keep kicking around
00:55:26.300 and i think the position i came around to is you know if you're a mega person basically you believe
00:55:33.400 that there's an invisible cabal of elites controlling events right you know you believe in conspiracy
00:55:40.400 theories and epstein is one of those and the problem i think that this story creates for trump
00:55:47.360 is not that he behaves inappropriately it's that he has become one of these invisible
00:55:53.400 members of the elite who's conspiring against regular people that's where i think they're getting
00:56:00.360 so mad is to find out that you know the the wizard of oz is not exactly who they thought he was so
00:56:07.680 um you know i keep thinking the story is going to die and keep not dying and um anyway we'll see
00:56:14.840 what happened next week when pam bondy unseals or attempts to unseal these grand jury transcripts yeah
00:56:20.420 and and chris if if this gets unsealed uh and they're and it's redacted to with an inch of its life
00:56:26.460 that's not going to help no it's not ben and i think you know i'd go one step further on warren like
00:56:33.000 you know it is why does this keep coming up i think it's this is the one thing donald trump
00:56:38.100 won't admit to like you think back to like the megan kelly thing back in his first run in 2016
00:56:42.320 he owned up to everything you know he he said yeah i did it so what you know piss off right that's been
00:56:47.460 that's kind of been trump's mo to everything but with this with this epstein issue he denies it and
00:56:52.720 and i think you know for the longest time his supporters are like well no it's fake news you know
00:56:56.940 they made it up and then when the evidence keeps coming out you're like you know and we've all seen the
00:57:00.520 photos of him with jillaine maxwell and and jeffrey epstein and and his wife and and it's not like
00:57:05.080 there's one photo there's it seems like there's a hundred photos but he denied it for so long and
00:57:09.960 now when there's actual it seems like tangible evidence it's like wait a minute maybe you were
00:57:15.080 not telling the truth yeah i think that's what's really hurting him the most and and like he he at
00:57:20.280 some point it's gonna be put up or shut up i mean you're you're the one who told us you were beating
00:57:23.600 the drum forever and now you're saying there's nothing there there and that's a bridge too far for
00:57:28.480 sort of the the the well-spoken intelligent influential podcasters that have had his back
00:57:35.240 they're the ones who've been able to put into words elegantly or is sometimes comedically
00:57:40.920 which means palatably uh things that he has has sometimes uh either not been able to do or
00:57:47.820 says one thing and does the other they're the ones who sort of reverse engineer a justification for him
00:57:52.540 which then gets fed out to the public so now you have the megan kelly's the matt walsh's
00:57:57.040 the ben shapiro's of the world as well as the comedian bros right the uh the uh andrew uh schultz's
00:58:03.120 of the world who are all coming out and saying no this doesn't work for us sorry man like this is
00:58:07.860 important and and there's an ethical bar they have to clear it as well they can't sit there and poo
00:58:14.020 poo something that that is this toxic and this nefarious as it relates to sort of this disgusting
00:58:20.320 loathsome monster uh that that uh that doesn't deserve a pass even in death and so there yeah i
00:58:26.780 don't think the only way out for donald trump as i see it and i'll let either one of you uh put a put
00:58:31.960 a bow on this the only way out is through i i couldn't agree more like i think he he needs to you
00:58:39.440 know the the they're they're scrambling you know they they're truly scrambling with this you know
00:58:44.860 releasing these reports there's clearly something in there and i mean you think back you know it seems
00:58:48.900 like it was like yesterday but i guess it was a couple months ago that that elon musk took to
00:58:53.000 twitter and said you know yeah the president's in the epstein epstein files you know he knew
00:58:59.040 something you know elon musk isn't a dumb dumb like he knew something and if he didn't he's just that
00:59:04.380 he's just that smart was a calculated risk warren yeah and it you know it is i mean it's a sordid
00:59:11.380 story i've long felt that there's a bit of anti-semitism in the mix here um i've long felt that
00:59:18.020 you know it would have been a very different kind of story um had we not had famous people
00:59:25.320 involved in it would have been a pedophile going to jail for his crimes but it you know it's like
00:59:30.620 the kennedy assassination you there's this cottage industry that develops with these conspiracy
00:59:36.140 theories that feeds on itself i mean q anon which you know supported trump and trump has made positive
00:59:42.900 noises about uh is similar where they take little filaments and bits and pieces of a story and try
00:59:49.560 and weave it into some tapestry again of these elites conspiring against regular people and that
00:59:56.860 is as i say is the danger here for trump is the dog he set loose is now he's at risk of being bitten
01:00:05.220 by his own dog like he he fostered this conspiracy he pushed it he tried to take political advantage of
01:00:13.040 it yeah won the election and now the irony of ironies it's coming back to bite him lastly explain to me
01:00:20.720 what i don't understand about supply management there's an article in the sun newspapers that says
01:00:27.240 the the um you know this this cabal is of of just a few hundred um dairy and poultry farmers seem to have
01:00:37.340 i don't know what they have on on every single party in ottawa but it's a sticking point uh for
01:00:43.620 interprovincial trade barriers it makes life more expensive uh for for most of us at the grocery store
01:00:49.380 if not all of us at the grocery store and donald trump doesn't like it and we're trying to we're trying
01:00:54.280 to build some new relationship with the united states despite that the there was a private
01:00:58.480 members bill by the bloc quebecois that every single party got on board with saying that it will
01:01:03.500 not be touched what don't i know someone has to make make me understand why this is such a sacred cow
01:01:10.720 uh chris we'll start with you i try try becoming prime minister without quebec it's as it's as simple
01:01:18.840 as that it's you know supply management props up uh you know and supports the dairy industry in
01:01:25.240 quebec which is where it's predominantly based and you can't uh you know nobody has the courage
01:01:31.180 i mean it's almost politically impossible stephen harper was you know successful in in 25th uh 2011
01:01:37.420 winning barely you know without quebec seats but um it's an incredibly popular policy in the province
01:01:44.520 quebec and you know if you want to become prime minister if you want to govern this country it's
01:01:49.840 almost impossible to do so without the support of the you know the province of quebec and you know
01:01:54.240 until some time until we figure out a way to do it otherwise uh supply management's here to stay
01:01:58.700 warren is it as simple as that i think no i think chris is right but it's not just the quebec factor
01:02:06.000 um you know supply management i know conservatives it drives them bananas you know and this goes back i mean
01:02:13.820 andrew sheer won the leadership of the conservative party by supporting it and maxine bernier got kicked
01:02:19.500 out of cabinet by opposing yeah so it is a hot political issue but you know an argument can be
01:02:25.880 made that it pray it provides for stable prices and a reliable supply of food and protection for
01:02:32.040 farmers farmers you know none of us are farmers we probably should have a farmer on here talking about
01:02:36.920 it he or she would say it you know gives us protection it ensures that there's not overproduction
01:02:43.060 or shortages right and it ensures the prices stay within a certain level but there's no question
01:02:50.160 donald trump is coming after it yeah even though the united states distorts the agricultural marketplace
01:02:56.180 more than canadians do by a factor of two like if you know particularly coddled farmers that's in the
01:03:02.720 united states but anyway it's an issue we're gonna have to deal with because trump is clearly coming
01:03:07.360 after us on it well gentlemen as always i thank you for a great conversation i hope i hope you've had
01:03:13.140 a great week and i hope you've got a great weekend lined up and we will uh we'll talk to you soon
01:03:17.300 why you gotta be so strange
01:03:25.880 why you gotta be so strange
01:03:38.900 why you gotta keep my passion
01:03:40.080 why you gotta be so new
01:03:41.900 why you gotta keep my passion
01:03:45.000 why you gotta keep on monitoring
01:03:46.900 why you gotta keep on monitoring
01:03:47.740 why you gotta keep on monitoring
01:03:48.500 why you gotta keep on monitoring
01:03:51.940 why you gotta neuve
01:03:52.640 use the bad attitude in the theme
01:03:56.960 why you gotta keep on monitoring
01:03:58.640 why you gotta keeppid
01:03:59.900 why you gotta keep kami
01:04:01.920 why eres
01:04:04.120 why you gotta keep on monitoring
01:04:05.940 Ooh, can you with me today?
01:04:35.940 Ooh, you'll have a heart with me, I will
01:04:43.940 Always blue
01:04:48.940 Always blue
01:04:57.940 Always blue
01:05:01.940 Always blue
01:05:03.940 Always blue
01:05:05.940 Always blue
01:05:07.940 Always blue
01:05:11.940 Always blue
01:05:13.940 Always blue
01:05:15.940 Always blue
01:05:17.940 Always blue
01:05:29.940 Always blue
01:05:31.940 Blue
01:05:33.940 Go back from where you came
01:05:37.940 My blue
01:05:39.940 You'll have a heart with me today
01:05:43.940 You'll have a heart with me today
01:05:49.940 Always blue
01:05:51.940 Always blue
01:05:53.940 Ooh, you'll have a heart with me, I will
01:06:03.940 Always blue
01:06:05.940 Always blue
01:06:07.940 You