KINSELLACAST 371： Conspiracies R Us with Lilley, Mulroney, Mark, Chapin - plus Muncho, Wine Lips, Bodega NYC and more
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 6 minutes
Words per minute
157.78577
Harmful content
Misogyny
9
sentences flagged
Toxicity
34
sentences flagged
Hate speech
29
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode of The Kinsella Cast, I discuss the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, conspiracy theories, and the conspiracy theory of the moment, The Jeffrey Epstein Files. The Epstein Files is a conspiracy theory that alleges that Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile who, along with his lover, was paid hush money to cover up the fact that he had a sexual affair with a porn star while his wife was pregnant with his child.
Transcript
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it's the Kinsella cast starring Warren Kinsella
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hey it's Warren welcome to the Kinsella cast it's a summertime Kinsella cast slightly shorter
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show with Brian Lilly and I talking about politics John Mark CKTB talking about rock
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and roll villain all of that mess and Ben Moroni and Chris Chapin and I talking about politics
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got some great music for you as well a couple Canadian bands of note one Muncho which is
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really just one guy Andrew Mazzaroli in Vancouver does the stuff in his bedroom his song hardest
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part I've got a song called electric lady by wine lips you've probably heard about kind of an off
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again on again project by some Toronto musicians really good rock and roll tune sweeping promises
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from Boston we've got as well I think they're now in Kansas or something it's a duo but really good
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tune by them and then Bodega NYC who is the name implies are from NYC and I've played before
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and I really love their stuff because the bass sound that they achieve you'll hear on all four
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of the songs this week the bass is kind of a definitive instrument when I play it badly it's
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I believe bass is a rhythm instrument and but these guys these tunes that you can hear the bass
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contributing to the melody and much more up front in the song and pretty cool as a result so
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more than a decade ago in 2014 I think a couple of University of Chicago guys published a study about
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conspiracy theories and their investigation which a lot of people cited focus mainly on Americans but
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its results I think are applicable to Canadians and Europeans too and for a long time they said
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you know people have demonstrated high levels of suspicion towards centralized authority and
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political elites quote-unquote true enough and Americans have long led the way on this sort of
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paranoia of course post Watergate the paranoia style as it has been called infected American politics
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and media and even Hollywood movies like in back in 2014 50 percent of Americans believed in at least
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one conspiracy theory but it's a lot more now yeah and as usual Canadians were a bit late to the party
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but we started to enthusiastically champion conspiracy theories too and Canadians embraced with the
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Chicago professors called a general distrust of government and a fear of larger secretive conspiracy so
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Leger one of the best pollsters around last year no 2023 they reported that 79 percent of Canadians
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believed in at least one conspiracy theory and the big ones for us up here JFK's assassination was a
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cover-up a cure for cancer has been found but is being suppressed by government and big pharma
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princess Diana was assassinated and not simply killed by a drunk guy who was driving too fast and
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my favorite my personal favorite the mainstream media fabricate what they report having worked for
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the mainstream media off and on for several decades that last one always slays me those of us who work
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in the media and politics for that matter can assure you we couldn't put together a decent conspiracy
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if our lives depended on it like it's a miracle that we remember to walk out of the house wearing shoes
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anyway in recent years there's been a bunch of conspiracy theories about COVID-19
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about HIV and AIDS Ebola 5G GMOs climate change tons of others but the hottest conspiracy theory in
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Canada at the moment and I've written a book about this soon to be available called the hidden hand
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is that all Jews are immensely powerful and wealthy and that they're covering up a murderous genocide
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against guiltless childlike angelic Palestinian saints and Leger again say that half the Canadians
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half Canadians truly believe that Israel is genocidal if you can fucking believe it adherents of this
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particular conspiracy theory like all conspiracy theorists are not interested in facts and the facts
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are well if Jews were as all-powerful as the haters claim wouldn't they be able to stop bad people
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from shooting up their schools and firebombing their synagogues and trying to kill them like if they were
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so controlling couldn't they have gotten Hamas and Hezbollah to stop you know murdering them
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anyway all of which brings us to the conspiracy theory of the moment the Jeffrey Epstein files
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the MAGA movement is incensed we're told and President Donald Trump could lose the presidency to the
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perception that he's covering up information about the deceased millionaire pedophile and you know I'm
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no fan of Donald Trump as you guys know but I don't quite get what the fuss is all about Trump and
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Epstein were pals the internet is packed with photos of the two of them leering at females who were in
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fact girls like it's not exactly front page news Trump and Epstein hung out together and they were
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fucking creeps like a civil jury 2023 found that Trump had indeed sexually abused sexually assaulted
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a woman many years before another jury in a criminal case last year ruled that Trump had paid hush money
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to cover up an affair with a porn star while his wife was pregnant like I say Trump is a pervert like
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that's not exactly a revelation so why then are prominent conservatives like Elon Musk or Marjorie
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Taylor Greene or some of Trump's own appointees at the FBI why are they so worked up about Epstein and
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Trump because it's not about sexual wrongdoing in my opinion the Epstein conspiracy theory is not about
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sex it's about an invisible cabal of powerful elite scheming to prevent the truth from coming out
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it's about secretive elitist Illuminati somewhere out in the ether conniving to keep the Epstein client
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list which I guarantee you does not exist to keep it from being disclosed the irony of course is that
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Donald Trump did this to himself he didn't just fib he polarized on Epstein and on so many other things
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he said they're not they're not they're not just lying to you they're evil but is with January 6th
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and vaccines and mail-in ballots Trump has lit a fire that now threatens to consume him it won't
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probably however why because there's one thing that Donald Trump is better at than peddling
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conspiracy theories and that's changing the channel Trump will have all of us talking about a new
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conspiracy theory by this time next week guaranteed
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I sit here I wonder what is my one desire she's missing my number I need to light that fire I want it I need it
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I'm going to have you find it I'm going so crazy without my legislator
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All right, we're back, we're back with Brian Lilley
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and uh it's kind of a rainy day in the summertime but it's so rain in toronto rain in the county
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and it's like a good thing isn't it it is so i started writing this morning um for a piece that
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i posted and i was like it's raining by the time i was finished it was sunny we went on a walk with
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chloe it was sunny then it started drizzling on us again now it looks like it's going to threaten
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rain but i'm going to the blue jays game so rain or not i'm going to have fun this afternoon that's
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good we'll enjoy your 16 hot dog or whatever it is it's actually probably more than that
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um so uh there was another uh big meeting not involving blue jays in ottawa this week at the
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museum of civilization the prime minister and pco summoned all of uh or a lot of the the first
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nations chiefs from across canada and then guys like you and me were shuffled out after the prime
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minister made his comments about listening and he was going to listen and he was interested in
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listening to what they have to say and then i am reliably told that a lot of the first nations
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chief said hey pal you we don't think you're listening to us at all we're very concerned about
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c5 and other stuff and um we're not super happy so what did you hear about the meeting with the pm and
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and where do you think c5 is going to end up going well it's going to be challenged in court you and i
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were talking about that on the full comment podcast a week or so ago and i remember you saying you didn't
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think that court challenges would be successful but maybe after hearing what you did about the meeting
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that might have changed um look there's definitely opposition to it is it something that has to happen
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uh i think so um in in fact i would go further i'm one of the people that believes a lot of the
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trudeau era policies that are so bad for development in this country should just be repealed and there's
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a way to do consultations with first nations group and bring them in as equity partners and all of those
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things without some of the bad legislation that's still there but carney chose to go this route and
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what i was writing about earlier today and folks can find it on my socials is that there's just two
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questions that keep being asked all summer how is mark carney doing and what will happen with pierre
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polly and on how is carney doing thing it really comes down to it depends like you know i know liberals
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are high-fiving each other and talking about how great things are but the people that matter the
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swing voters the people that you know give gave them that extra edge to put them in office they're
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going to want to see some deliverables premiers are going to want to see some deliverables first
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nations leaders will want to see can he deliver and on c5 he's promising both consultation but also
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that we'll build these big national projects um you know if you listen to danielle smith he's got until
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september to start showing what he plans to do like he has to deliver at a certain point and i'd say
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between september and december there's a whole pile of things he's got to deliver on from the national
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projects that he promised with c5 uh you know to at least show that there's some movement on that
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he's promised to rein in government spending and uh you know cut regulation and trim the size of the
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civil service but he's also having like a 92 billion dollar record-setting deficit and then he's got the
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whole trump thing can he deliver on that he's made a lot of big promises but as uh simon and garfunkel
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said that's worth a pocket full of mumbles um you know is it lies in jest it's a bridge over
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treasure it's a bridge over trouble it's the boxer it's the boxer so let me introduce simon and garfunkel
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to your podcast but we could go on like this for quite some time i think um but yeah so but the
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polling shows trouble but the polling shows uh some of which i've seen um some of which you've seen
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that it there's this weird dichotomy where canadians are all for are they're like you
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that you know they're all for getting our our resources to market and diversifying our economy
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and all that good stuff but they've got a bit of a hold back about well you can't do it and trample
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over indigenous constitutional rights and you we don't want you wrecking the environment and it
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it seems to me that that kind of places carney at the at the center of a contradiction it's like
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i'm not quite sure how he can do both what do you think well he's got to tell the right story you
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know like um you know we just started exporting loquified natural gas to asia yeah wonderful news
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yeah decade behind where we should be yeah um here's the good news stories to sell another
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pipeline for that you want to reduce global emissions and we keep being told oh emissions
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don't recognize borders okay then take canadian liquefied natural gas export even more of it to
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asia and to europe get them off coal and that will reduce emissions by more than eliminating all of
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canada's emissions we could actually do that uh it would be the equivalent of removing canada from
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the face of the earth emissions wise uh you know embrace that story that the conservatives have been
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trying to tell for years that the trudeau liberals didn't care about i think carney does you know he's
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much more pragmatic um embrace that story tell it and you'll have canadians on side and along the way
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you make the first nations groups that are if it's on their land goes through their land
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um well then they become equity partners make them partners yeah exactly um in your sub stack and i
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encourage everybody to seek out the brian lilly sub stack which is a great read and it's got all kinds
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of great facts and opinion stuff in it very quickly on polyev i i've i'd resolved not to pick on him this
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week but i thought you know you when i read your sub stack i thought well we should probably make
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mention have you heard anything about any uh drive to drive him out or is there anything no dramatic
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and new it seems kind of quiet doesn't it jenny burns staying put uh yeah jenny burn is staying put
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um you know my view on that is if you're going to keep the same leader in the same leadership team
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around him then they've got to learn and pivot it's just like when you know uh the you know are
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they going to be the leafs who go to the playoffs lose and then don't change for next year so that
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they can win um if you don't change uh you know and alter it's just like sports it's just like any
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team sport yeah okay well we got to make some tweaks you can make the tweaks great uh no real
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drive to get him out a lot of questions about him um and kind of like currently people are waiting to
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see and i i figure you know he's got to get over 70 in the by-election to not be wounded um obviously
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if he gets 65 he'll win his seat but then he's going to have questions heading into the leadership
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review so i figure he's got to get above 70 in both of those damian couric won uh the most recent
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election in battle river crowfoot with 82.8 percent of vote he won in 2021 uh with 71.3 so
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he's he's the guy who gave up his seat for for to run so in in that playground that's where uh
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you know polyeth has to be if he's below that he's in trouble and then if he's below that at the
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leadership um trouble you know for all those people screaming that doug ford's holding his uh
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convention at the same time uh is polyeth if you support pierre you should be happy about that
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exactly so it'll keep all the folks from ontario who prefer ford to polyeth busy and they're not
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going to organize and they're not going to try and you know vote them out speaking of organizing
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speaking of organizing let's turn i know and i apologize to everybody in the west and the east
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but you know toronto is the center of the universe and its mayor has more power than a lot of provincial
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premiers so they're pulling out this week showing olivia chow is going to win again uh even against
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john torrey john torrey would be nipping at her heels and then the other possible candidates much
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further back what are you hearing about the mayoral race about canada's one of the largest cities in the
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world well what are you hearing uh so yes i'm my understanding is chow wants to to push ahead um
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you know the progress toronto folks which is a you know far left group that organizes around them we
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don't have parties at the municipal level in toronto but we should uh they're organizing for her and
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around her they're going to keep supporting her that's what helped her win last time uh toronto's
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hamlet i mean john torrey still can't make up his mind um i'm i'm serious so like i i'm talking to
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people who met with him within the last week yeah who say well he he told me you know he hasn't made
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up his mind and he doesn't need to until next summer and then i talked to somebody else in there like
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yeah so uh torrey's internal polling shows that he could beat chow in a one-on-one race it's like oh
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okay come on make up your mind and i said that in a piece recently that it's just unfair what
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torrey's doing because there's a lot of other candidates who would occupy the same space that
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would like to run but they don't know if hamlet is in or out and you know if he's doing this for ego
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whereas people around him are doing this because they believe that this makes them relevant again
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that's not the right reason and we need change at the city uh level in toronto it's a very poorly
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run city right now it doesn't look as good as it should and i know some of your listeners are
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thinking it's horrible no matter what but oh no it's it's really bad i mean this week you know the
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terrible murder of the woman in her 70s just going out to get her groceries like just some you know
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it's like gotham and crime housing just how the city looks the encampments in the parks the open
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drug use everywhere you know these things need dealt with and uh and we need a mayor to do it you
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know i like uh you know olivia i know olivia and you know i like her as a person i just think she's
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been a terrible mayor and she's got to be because she's got to be defeated i i like both john
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and olivia chow personally they're very nice people known them both a long time but i had to
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write a column a little while ago saying she has to go but he's not the answer and here's why um and
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just went through what the policies of each of them have done to the city and you know they may not
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like what i've written but i backed it all up with facts and folks can find that column on the sun's
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website and i had linked to the city data and everything else it's it's unreal what's happened in the
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city over the last decade no and you can't argue with what you've said one thing that people do
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uh argue about is conspiracy theories and a lot of argument taking place in the united states these
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days over the so-called epstein files i've got a piece in post media this weekend where i actually
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kind of defend donald trump and say what's the big deal everybody knew that he was a creep what you
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know this isn't news what what do you think about the epstein stuff do you think it really can harm
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trump in the way that some are speculating i think you can um because he he promised over and over
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again that he would release the whole file and now he's saying no and if it's because so alan
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dershowitz who at one point was epstein's lawyer back in his trial in like 2007 2008 whatever that was
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yeah so he saw the discovery and my understanding is dershowitz went in because he was asked to and
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and then he sees what's in there and well you know you don't like it but you're the lawyer you're you're
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in charge so he said most of the names that are on he said first of all there is no epstein list
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like he did not have a client list is what he uh said there is a list that was put together by the
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fbi for their investigation um he said almost all the names that he saw in discovery they're already
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out there they're in the media they're in you know well-established used reports and he said there's
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not going to be much that you would find there now that said if you don't if you promise transparency
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and and said obviously there's a cover-up and we'll we'll tell you what the truth is and then you
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don't release it you're not transparent you're gonna be annoying a lot of people so it's a real
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fighting mega world um i i don't fully get the obsession with it but um yeah just just open
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these things up and and be honest with folks they released more of the jfk files and the rfk files
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and you know didn't earn a whole lot no it was a big snooze it's a big snooze these this is how you
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feed a conspiracy as opposed to get rid of it exactly it's the watergate rule it's never the break-in
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it's always the cover-up so maybe the cover-up's hurting them well brian nilly thank you so much
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sir for taking time on this rainy possibly sunny day um have a wonderful day and a wonderful
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represent the tide how did i murder murder murder
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i thought i was such a revolutionary i thought city's taken but not by me city's taken but not me
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we're all just as yes before a cuss a spectre and potato's dough left a hollering when rocking
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oh oh oh oh oh ho oh oh oh whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa
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RI� duoude really that's fine and the mystery of single mind against community who think such a revolutionary
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Chaser's not my friend, yet he follows me from every corner
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Singing by the street, master, praise the past ever after
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Singing by the street, master, praise the past ever after
00:27:53.360
This is John Gonto on the voice of Niagara 610 CKTV
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I wanted to talk to this guy about this for some time now
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What's going on, you know, for a lot of our Jewish friends
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And, you know, what do you think about this whole thing?
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When you're a musician or you love that kind of music
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It's good, you know, to want to rattle your parents
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And I've been in a punk band since I was 15 years old
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That Sid Vicious wearing a swastika t-shirt was wrong
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Or Susie Sue wearing a swastika armband was wrong
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Yeah, I'm guessing you're probably not easily offended
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So, when did you first see that Glastonbury performance?
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And what was your take initially when you saw Bob Villain?
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You know, Bob Villain, I played their stuff on my own show
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And, you know, it's kind of this fusion of rap and punk
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And then when I heard about this death, death to the IDF
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And like in Israel, you know, if you're 18 years old
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So, if you're saying death to the IDF, you're basically saying
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You know, they're the Northern Ireland band from Belfast
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And they've always said all kinds of things that are just not right
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You've become as bad as the neo-Nazi skinheads
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With some of these bands that we're talking about right now
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Like the Sex Pistols and the Ramones and the Dead Kennedys
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Although they talked about fascism and things like that, of course
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One of the most, if not the most, controversial songs in punk rock history
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I believe the difference is they never went and said you go kill somebody, right?
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Go and look at the lyrics to God Save the Queen
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And, you know, Rotten, the front guy for the Pistols at that point
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You know, he's talking about getting wasted and destroying
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And I've interviewed him many times over the years
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But he does emphasize, like Strummer did in The Clash
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Is at the end of the day, you know, if you're a punk
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Or, you know, you believe in the power of music
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It's the power to heal and bring people together
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You're not supposed to be talking about killing people
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I know there's Montreal and Toronto in late September
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You can't really sustain a tour on Canada alone
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And I don't want to come off like a boomer here
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you're listening to the ben mulrooney show welcome back to the ben mulrooney show thank you so much
00:44:55.900
for listen it's been a long week and we like to end it in style with people who are far smarter
00:45:00.440
than i uh with our this week in politics friday edition so please welcome to the show chris chape
00:45:05.120
and political commentator managing principal at upstream strategy and warren kinsella former
00:45:09.420
special advisor to jean chretien and the ceo of the daisy group happy friday guys howdy well look
00:45:16.800
you know it takes a long time to write uh the legacy of of a prime minister and that can change
00:45:22.840
over time and you can have uh you can have recency bias for example and so who knows what the
00:45:28.320
ultimately we are going to think of the 10 years of justin trudeau as our prime minister but this
00:45:34.620
early news uh coming out um is is not good this new report that says that ottawa and the spending
00:45:42.260
like a drunken pirate uh under 10 years of justin trudeau was to blame for higher consumer prices
00:45:47.180
not not the bank of canada decisions and this is this is a brick in the wall uh certainly not the
00:45:54.280
only brick uh but it's not a good indicator as to as we move forward and and you see even liberals
00:46:01.180
reversing course on so many decisions that were made by that government i don't know what we're
00:46:06.520
going to say about justin trudeau and his and his liberals um uh 20 30 years from now but as of right
00:46:12.340
now it's not look a good warren you know you're in the you're in the big red tent what do you think
00:46:16.180
well i i think uh we have to be fair to him i mean so cd how so they they tilt conservative
00:46:24.920
and there's no question they're right if you're talking about the 10-year period where justin trudeau
00:46:32.740
was prime minister there's no question that i think that was one of the things that sank him in the
00:46:37.760
end is he was as you point out spinning like the cliched uh drunken sailor however they also go after
00:46:45.780
him for the period the pandemic and um that's where i think in fairness i have to defend him
00:46:53.660
there was not a government in the world including donald trump's that was not also spending like
00:46:59.480
a drunken sailor during the pandemic because we had millions of people around the world dying
00:47:04.440
our health care system was crashing and we had people who could not work so in that period that is
00:47:13.680
properly a role for government that was properly a time for government to be spending above the norm
00:47:20.120
but their criticism about the other years in which trudeau was prime minister that's fair criticism
00:47:26.140
chris uh did uh how do you see it because and i i i take uh warren's sort of measured uh assessment
00:47:32.200
but i i go back to to the the level of spending and what we spent on during the pandemic and i i remember
00:47:39.340
saying like this is a lot of money this i'm i'm seeing it i'm seeing this government but i said if if
00:47:43.540
the end result is that every bridge has been built uh fixed and all of our infrastructure is there
00:47:48.040
and every social program has been properly paid for uh then then i won't necessarily have the
00:47:53.900
problem i have right now and none of that came to pass so i don't know where the money went
00:47:57.400
i don't i don't think anybody knows where the money went ben i think that's you know the reality is
00:48:03.580
listen warren was absolutely spot on like the the spending the country did provinces every province
00:48:08.880
ran deficits during covet it was just something at that time i think became societally acceptable
00:48:13.960
yeah i think like i have flashbacks as soon as you brought this topic up then to like the 2015
00:48:18.620
election campaign and i i can just picture stephen harper on the debates and and in his press
00:48:22.940
topics it's like justin trudeau promises to write teeny tiny deficits modest remember that modest
00:48:28.400
deficits yeah and modest teeny tiny and him just pinching his fingers because that's what justin
00:48:33.420
trudeau promised the truth was you know in the good times we ran huge deficits and in the good times
00:48:39.420
i think justin trudeau's government was fiscally reckless and so in the in the tough times yeah
00:48:45.180
they went even more overboard and and you know we're absolutely all paying the price for that now
00:48:49.260
well let's uh shift our our conversation to to something that always has always made me
00:48:54.860
uncomfortable because i i've i've told you guys before that i i feel like i am part of the majority
00:49:00.500
of canadians who who feel like i was forced out of my very comfortable place being one of those people
00:49:07.000
who is proud of how we've built this country through immigration like it was a point of pride
00:49:12.260
for me that you know we got it right for so many years and we brought in people deserving people
00:49:17.860
who wanted to be here and who helped us build this country without whom canada would not have become
00:49:22.140
the fullest expression of what it was and then i hear stories like this one that have forced me into
00:49:28.440
position of being critical of our immigration system to the point that i think you know that a course
00:49:33.420
correction needs to be made and when i read that one in one case a permanent resident was spared jail
00:49:39.400
time despite aggravating circumstances as it relates to a sex offense he was spared jail time
00:49:46.500
so that his ability to sponsor relatives to come to canada would not be impacted and in another a foreign
00:49:52.320
national in canada on a student visa was given no jail time yet his crimes as related to sort of sexual
00:49:58.100
offenses might still be uh it might still result in his removal from canada but he's still here
00:50:03.500
this to me is so excuse my language ass backwards i i don't know i don't know what to do with this
0.77
00:50:12.200
chris you're chuckling no i because i i think any normal person canadian you know whether you were born
00:50:20.560
here whether you immigrated to canada feels the same way ben like there was a there was an agreement
00:50:24.800
there was a social contract if you will in this country that you know you play by the rules and
00:50:29.240
then you hear stories like this and you're just left scratching your head and it's just like you
00:50:33.420
came you came here for a better life and then you know we see stories like this and i i unfortunately i
00:50:38.360
i feel the same way i always you know i i grew up in a you know a bedroom suburb of toronto where you
00:50:43.880
know immigration was you know the key to our our local economy and and now you're sitting here
00:50:48.240
scratching your head and being like this something feels broken and i don't know how we fix it so so
00:50:52.320
warren that the question is to you and you know the legal system as well as anyone is is the issue
00:50:57.120
with judges is the issue with a law is he is the issue with how these crimes are investigated
00:51:02.620
where where is the pain point the most the most glaring one as you see it well it's all of those
00:51:09.620
things you've just identified and michelle rempel garner uh also has identified in social media
00:51:15.880
um and you know like full disclosure ben as ben knows maybe chris does know uh ben and i got in
00:51:22.640
trouble about this a couple years ago when we pointed out when people who were you know kind of
00:51:29.140
pro-hamas anti-israel um you know committing criminal offenses we took the position both ben and i
00:51:36.740
that that they should be deported and uh there's lots of people got mad at us for that but i still have
00:51:44.120
that view because it reflects the law like if you were convicted of a serious convicted of a serious
00:51:51.540
crime you're and you're uh not a citizen your information gets sent to the canadian border
00:51:57.580
services agency and then they commence the process of you know revoking your resident status and like and
00:52:06.420
and for example like even for less serious spells in jail for summary offenses so six months you know
00:52:13.580
or less you can lose your right to appeal and again be deported so like this has been the law in canon and
00:52:21.280
i don't understand why in these two outrageous cases the judge misapplied the judges misapplied the law
00:52:28.940
but that is the rule if you are here and you break the rules of this country if you're here largely as
00:52:35.360
a guest we are entitled to send you away not to give you um you know kind of a get out of jail free
00:52:42.580
card no pun intended where your your actual status is used to your advantage i know that that's the
00:52:49.080
thing that's even that that thing uh warren is is is what is i think the most insulting thing to
00:52:54.220
canadians well it's it's the most insulting thing to to people who came here lawfully
00:52:58.780
and to those of us who play the play by the rules you're caught doing something wrong you're and
00:53:04.700
that should be an automatic pathway to putting your your presence here at risk but it's being
00:53:10.620
turned around and used in the opposite way being said oh well we can't put you in jail because that
00:53:15.480
might that might mean you can't bring more of your family over chris this is this is upside down
00:53:20.360
and and to me look this is this is a new government that wants to show that it is uh it is a different
00:53:26.440
government if it doesn't start addressing things like this quickly i think the stink of of sort of
00:53:31.700
problems from the past might stick to them faster than they expect uh absolutely and i think you
00:53:38.260
know we've talked about this i mean warren's been on you know the right side on this on a couple
00:53:41.520
different times when we've talked about you know judicial issues but i think it i think it like the
00:53:46.280
core issue here is the trust the public has in our courts and and i think that's unfortunately
00:53:51.680
being eroded when you hear decisions like this like you know bail is a whole other issue in this
00:53:56.220
country and and you know warren's brought up before you know maybe we don't have enough jails and so
00:54:00.460
there's pressures on judges to make gut calls but i mean this is this is so far past a a judgment call
00:54:06.700
like there are laws in place you've broken the law you know yeah time to go and if you had told me
00:54:12.660
months ago that this there would be a real schism today within the maga movement over jeffrey epstein
00:54:18.720
i would have asked for the playbook like how did this happen and we're watching it happen in real
00:54:24.060
time um uh warren this started out yeah with with uh donald trump beating the drum on he was going to
00:54:31.040
drain the swamp and epstein was was the the prime example of the swamp and and then he gets in power
0.99
00:54:38.200
again after promising to show everybody the dirty laundry and now he's poo-pooing it he's poo-pooing sex
0.97
00:54:44.880
trafficking and child uh child abuse and uh at least that's how a lot of the people on the maga side
0.96
00:54:51.020
are seeing it and the more he talks the more he tries to dismiss it the worse it sounds for him
00:54:59.000
like what's he supposed to do at this point um he's got a big problem and uh at first i would didn't
00:55:06.360
you know i didn't think it was a big deal the notion that donald trump uh behaved inappropriately
00:55:13.260
wasn't exactly news i mean he's he's a civil jury found that he had sexually assaulted a woman
00:55:20.600
um so that that wasn't the news i was trying to figure out why does this story keep kicking around
00:55:26.300
and i think the position i came around to is you know if you're a mega person basically you believe
00:55:33.400
that there's an invisible cabal of elites controlling events right you know you believe in conspiracy
00:55:40.400
theories and epstein is one of those and the problem i think that this story creates for trump
00:55:47.360
is not that he behaves inappropriately it's that he has become one of these invisible
00:55:53.400
members of the elite who's conspiring against regular people that's where i think they're getting
00:56:00.360
so mad is to find out that you know the the wizard of oz is not exactly who they thought he was so
00:56:07.680
um you know i keep thinking the story is going to die and keep not dying and um anyway we'll see
00:56:14.840
what happened next week when pam bondy unseals or attempts to unseal these grand jury transcripts yeah
0.99
00:56:20.420
and and chris if if this gets unsealed uh and they're and it's redacted to with an inch of its life
00:56:26.460
that's not going to help no it's not ben and i think you know i'd go one step further on warren like
00:56:33.000
you know it is why does this keep coming up i think it's this is the one thing donald trump
00:56:38.100
won't admit to like you think back to like the megan kelly thing back in his first run in 2016
00:56:42.320
he owned up to everything you know he he said yeah i did it so what you know piss off right that's been
0.76
00:56:47.460
that's kind of been trump's mo to everything but with this with this epstein issue he denies it and
00:56:52.720
and i think you know for the longest time his supporters are like well no it's fake news you know
00:56:56.940
they made it up and then when the evidence keeps coming out you're like you know and we've all seen the
00:57:00.520
photos of him with jillaine maxwell and and jeffrey epstein and and his wife and and it's not like
00:57:05.080
there's one photo there's it seems like there's a hundred photos but he denied it for so long and
00:57:09.960
now when there's actual it seems like tangible evidence it's like wait a minute maybe you were
00:57:15.080
not telling the truth yeah i think that's what's really hurting him the most and and like he he at
00:57:20.280
some point it's gonna be put up or shut up i mean you're you're the one who told us you were beating
0.79
00:57:23.600
the drum forever and now you're saying there's nothing there there and that's a bridge too far for
00:57:28.480
sort of the the the well-spoken intelligent influential podcasters that have had his back
00:57:35.240
they're the ones who've been able to put into words elegantly or is sometimes comedically
00:57:40.920
which means palatably uh things that he has has sometimes uh either not been able to do or
00:57:47.820
says one thing and does the other they're the ones who sort of reverse engineer a justification for him
00:57:52.540
which then gets fed out to the public so now you have the megan kelly's the matt walsh's
00:57:57.040
the ben shapiro's of the world as well as the comedian bros right the uh the uh andrew uh schultz's
00:58:03.120
of the world who are all coming out and saying no this doesn't work for us sorry man like this is
00:58:07.860
important and and there's an ethical bar they have to clear it as well they can't sit there and poo
00:58:14.020
poo something that that is this toxic and this nefarious as it relates to sort of this disgusting
0.52
00:58:20.320
loathsome monster uh that that uh that doesn't deserve a pass even in death and so there yeah i
0.93
00:58:26.780
don't think the only way out for donald trump as i see it and i'll let either one of you uh put a put
00:58:31.960
a bow on this the only way out is through i i couldn't agree more like i think he he needs to you
00:58:39.440
know the the they're they're scrambling you know they they're truly scrambling with this you know
00:58:44.860
releasing these reports there's clearly something in there and i mean you think back you know it seems
00:58:48.900
like it was like yesterday but i guess it was a couple months ago that that elon musk took to
00:58:53.000
twitter and said you know yeah the president's in the epstein epstein files you know he knew
0.97
00:58:59.040
something you know elon musk isn't a dumb dumb like he knew something and if he didn't he's just that
0.94
00:59:04.380
he's just that smart was a calculated risk warren yeah and it you know it is i mean it's a sordid
0.93
00:59:11.380
story i've long felt that there's a bit of anti-semitism in the mix here um i've long felt that
00:59:18.020
you know it would have been a very different kind of story um had we not had famous people
00:59:25.320
involved in it would have been a pedophile going to jail for his crimes but it you know it's like
00:59:30.620
the kennedy assassination you there's this cottage industry that develops with these conspiracy
00:59:36.140
theories that feeds on itself i mean q anon which you know supported trump and trump has made positive
00:59:42.900
noises about uh is similar where they take little filaments and bits and pieces of a story and try
00:59:49.560
and weave it into some tapestry again of these elites conspiring against regular people and that
00:59:56.860
is as i say is the danger here for trump is the dog he set loose is now he's at risk of being bitten
01:00:05.220
by his own dog like he he fostered this conspiracy he pushed it he tried to take political advantage of
01:00:13.040
it yeah won the election and now the irony of ironies it's coming back to bite him lastly explain to me
01:00:20.720
what i don't understand about supply management there's an article in the sun newspapers that says
01:00:27.240
the the um you know this this cabal is of of just a few hundred um dairy and poultry farmers seem to have
01:00:37.340
i don't know what they have on on every single party in ottawa but it's a sticking point uh for
01:00:43.620
interprovincial trade barriers it makes life more expensive uh for for most of us at the grocery store
01:00:49.380
if not all of us at the grocery store and donald trump doesn't like it and we're trying to we're trying
01:00:54.280
to build some new relationship with the united states despite that the there was a private
01:00:58.480
members bill by the bloc quebecois that every single party got on board with saying that it will
01:01:03.500
not be touched what don't i know someone has to make make me understand why this is such a sacred cow
01:01:10.720
uh chris we'll start with you i try try becoming prime minister without quebec it's as it's as simple
01:01:18.840
as that it's you know supply management props up uh you know and supports the dairy industry in
01:01:25.240
quebec which is where it's predominantly based and you can't uh you know nobody has the courage
01:01:31.180
i mean it's almost politically impossible stephen harper was you know successful in in 25th uh 2011
01:01:37.420
winning barely you know without quebec seats but um it's an incredibly popular policy in the province
01:01:44.520
quebec and you know if you want to become prime minister if you want to govern this country it's
01:01:49.840
almost impossible to do so without the support of the you know the province of quebec and you know
01:01:54.240
until some time until we figure out a way to do it otherwise uh supply management's here to stay
01:01:58.700
warren is it as simple as that i think no i think chris is right but it's not just the quebec factor
01:02:06.000
um you know supply management i know conservatives it drives them bananas you know and this goes back i mean
01:02:13.820
andrew sheer won the leadership of the conservative party by supporting it and maxine bernier got kicked
01:02:19.500
out of cabinet by opposing yeah so it is a hot political issue but you know an argument can be
01:02:25.880
made that it pray it provides for stable prices and a reliable supply of food and protection for
01:02:32.040
farmers farmers you know none of us are farmers we probably should have a farmer on here talking about
01:02:36.920
it he or she would say it you know gives us protection it ensures that there's not overproduction
01:02:43.060
or shortages right and it ensures the prices stay within a certain level but there's no question
01:02:50.160
donald trump is coming after it yeah even though the united states distorts the agricultural marketplace
01:02:56.180
more than canadians do by a factor of two like if you know particularly coddled farmers that's in the
0.82
01:03:02.720
united states but anyway it's an issue we're gonna have to deal with because trump is clearly coming
01:03:07.360
after us on it well gentlemen as always i thank you for a great conversation i hope i hope you've had
01:03:13.140
a great week and i hope you've got a great weekend lined up and we will uh we'll talk to you soon