kinsellacast - KINSELLACAST 385： The ad that changed everything, plus the Jays! Lilley, Mulroney, Pierson, Furey plus The None, Drug Church, Militarie Gun, Nadine Shah, Lisa O'Neill

00:00:00.000 It's the KinsellaCast, starring Warren Kinsella.

00:00:16.760 Hey, it's Warren. Welcome to KinsellaCast. I'm back up in the cabin, back up here with the dogs, and it is getting colder.

00:00:25.020 It's sunny, beautiful right now. There was a big bevy, I think that's what you call it, a big bevy of swans out on the lake a little while ago, honking like crazy and freaking out Tommy.

00:00:35.920 But I've been up here for a couple days to put the final, final, final touches on the book.

00:00:42.600 When you're writing a book about the propaganda campaign against Israel and the West, which is anti-Semitic in its essence,

00:00:50.920 unfortunately there is new material every single day.

00:00:57.460 And so anyway, the e-book's out in February, the hardcover book is out shortly thereafter,

00:01:04.860 and hopefully you pick it up and let me know what you think.

00:01:07.860 Great show this week. Let's talk about the music first.

00:01:12.700 There's one song that is going to kick it off called My People, and this is people from Block Party and Castles and Frauds.

00:01:20.700 The band's called The Nun, and they are my new favorite band of all time of this month.

00:01:25.240 These guys recruited Kayla White. She had been Blue Ruth and Young Man, and they were born.

00:01:34.500 And this is like birthday party meets liars, meets savages, meets jaw wobble era public image.

00:01:41.800 It's just so fucking brilliant. And it's loud. I warn you in advance.

00:01:46.580 But, you know, I go to hardcore shows, and that's kind of my thing.

00:01:52.600 Speaking of which, I'm going to see Drug Church again for about the 100th time this week in Toronto.

00:02:00.440 Drop off the manuscript and go see them at History. I hate that venue.

00:02:05.260 And it's from their new album, which is called Demolition.

00:02:16.740 No, the song's called Demolition. Anyway, such a good band.

00:02:22.780 I've also got Military Gun from their new album, God Owes Me Money, although I'm not sure that's true in my case.

00:02:30.280 And their new record's called God Save the Gun. See, there, I remember that.

00:02:35.260 And I think it's the best album of the year. So I'm seeing them next year.

00:02:39.980 And the enemy, here's what the enemy said about their album.

00:02:43.860 Los Angeles punks reached new heights on ambitious second album.

00:02:48.120 Four stars. Exhilarating, barreling energy, and yell along choruses. Not bad.

00:02:54.880 And then I've got Total Change of Pace with two amazing women musicians.

00:03:00.480 Elise O'Neill, who is a perfect Irish person.

00:03:02.980 Because she knows you can actually want the hostages home and also deplore the loss of innocent Palestinian life at the same time.

00:03:11.400 So I've got her song, Good Night World, which she wrote.

00:03:16.840 And it's a song I want played when I die.

00:03:19.140 And I want all you guys to sing it at my funeral.

00:03:21.100 And then on that happy note, I've also got Nadine Shaw.

00:03:25.740 Nadine Shaw is English, but born to an English mother, Pakistani dad.

00:03:31.860 Moved to London at the age of 17.

00:03:34.040 Started her career as a jazz singer.

00:03:36.780 And she became great friends with Amy Winehouse, which is always a good thing.

00:03:40.400 And she says she wants to inspire young Muslim women to pick up music, which is a good thing in this era of the Taliban.

00:03:50.220 So, great show.

00:03:51.900 Brian Lilly, Alex Pearson, Ben Moroney, lots of other interesting people.

00:03:58.280 Did a column that I'm going to relate to you.

00:04:01.320 I kind of summarized them for you.

00:04:03.860 Sometimes I read them carefully.

00:04:05.640 It depends what mood I'm in.

00:04:07.320 But this one got a big reaction.

00:04:09.540 To me, it was pretty obvious.

00:04:11.180 It was kind of self-evident.

00:04:12.900 But it got a big, big reaction on Substack and elsewhere.

00:04:18.120 So, you know, this is my take.

00:04:20.180 Like, Carney has been Prime Minister of Canada for more than seven months.

00:04:24.800 And in politics, that represents several lifetimes.

00:04:27.820 And in the past few months, he's given us lots of time to learn about the political strengths and weaknesses that he's got.

00:04:37.260 And his main strengths are obvious.

00:04:38.800 He's intelligent.

00:04:40.000 He's experienced as a banker.

00:04:42.240 He's calm.

00:04:43.660 He's not Justin Trudeau, Donald Trump.

00:04:46.660 But his personal shortcomings have become evident, too.

00:04:49.900 And there are five main ones, I think.

00:04:51.660 There's arrogance.

00:04:53.160 There's under-delivering.

00:04:54.600 So, over-promising and under-delivering.

00:04:56.220 There's contradictions.

00:04:58.920 There's this fuzziness.

00:05:00.300 And then there's this Ottawa-washed thing about him.

00:05:03.600 And all five were seen on Wednesday night at his State of the Union-style speech to the nation.

00:05:10.640 Which reminds me of another failing.

00:05:13.380 He has this fetish for glitzy American-style governance.

00:05:16.500 Remember how he got rid of the carbon tax?

00:05:18.240 You know, like signing a piece of paper like he's Donald Trump.

00:05:21.200 That's not how our style of government works.

00:05:23.340 But anyway, my take is a former speechwriter to a guy who became prime minister.

00:05:28.780 A lot of the speech reads like a first-year university history lecture.

00:05:33.720 But much of it tells a story about the man.

00:05:36.940 So, arrogance first.

00:05:38.060 Arrogance, conceit, solipsism, condescension, whatever you call it.

00:05:42.260 It all represents the biggest failing of liberals.

00:05:46.060 It's the thing that always defeats them.

00:05:47.640 Like, the speech was 3,000 words.

00:05:50.740 It was too long.

00:05:52.000 And he showed flashes of that arrogance on the future.

00:05:55.220 He actually said he and his government are going to, quote, give it back to you.

00:06:00.160 Like, really?

00:06:01.480 We don't have a future unless Mark gives us one?

00:06:05.080 The forthcoming budget, he said, is going to be about winning, quote-unquote.

00:06:09.640 Now, Charlie Sheen may approve of that sort of mission statement, but history is littered with metaphorical remains of politicians who promise winning, and then only delivered the opposite.

00:06:21.980 Another thing.

00:06:23.180 Ottawa washed.

00:06:24.840 That's an old Preston Manning saying, but it fits here.

00:06:28.520 If a politician spends too much time in the nation's capital, and Carney's lived there off and on for many years, they start to speak in this incomprehensible acronyms and jargon, and they start lapsing into bureaucrat speak.

00:06:44.080 And nothing shows a leader to be more out of touch than that.

00:06:47.820 And there were tons of examples in the speech.

00:06:50.020 Hinge moments, he said.

00:06:52.400 Empower Canadians.

00:06:53.700 Fuck, I hate that.

00:06:54.420 We will build inclusively.

00:06:56.600 Okay.

00:06:58.860 And catalyze unprecedented investments.

00:07:02.280 Like, that's how you can tell Carney was personally messing with the speech, because he uses Britishisms, like catalyze, with an S, not a Z, so much that his campaign manager named his lobby firm after that.

00:07:15.720 Another one that I thought was a failing.

00:07:18.280 Contradictions.

00:07:18.840 He contradicts himself on a relationship with the Yanks, sometimes even in the same sentence.

00:07:23.960 Like, he won the election by promising to stand up to the United States, but since then, he's done quite a bit of standing down.

00:07:31.260 So, here's a single sentence.

00:07:33.340 Quote, our relationship with the United States will never be the same as it was, even though we have the best trade deal of any country.

00:07:41.180 End quote.

00:07:41.600 Well, like, which is it?

00:07:44.580 Never the same or best in the world?

00:07:46.680 Like, pick a lane, Mark.

00:07:49.140 Similarly, he decreed, now is not the time to be cautious because fortune favors the bold, which is a cliche, but what is, which is completely contradicted by his abject refusal to get his much, much renowned elbows back up, even when provincial premiers like Doug Ford are calling for it.

00:08:06.500 And when Doug's doing the right thing, like with his ad this week that I'm going to be talking to Brian about.

00:08:11.200 Elsewhere, Carney pledged we will build solidarity with workers, in solidarity with workers, which, of course, is going to be news to Canada Post workers, who, as Carney himself says, just a few paragraphs later, are losing $10 million a day.

00:08:25.320 So, like, that solidarity, I can only imagine what disunity looks like.

00:08:30.480 Another problem, under-delivering, over-promising under-delivering.

00:08:34.140 Like, his speech was full of lots of, we must be bold and we will play to win, and Canada has what the world wants, and take control of our future, and blah, blah, blah.

00:08:43.600 Lots of that.

00:08:44.960 But it reminded me of a key Carney weakness about over-promising and under-delivering.

00:08:50.160 Like, he's Trudeau-esque in his fondness for sizzle over steak, and it's getting really difficult to ignore.

00:08:57.160 On trade, on tariffs, on Trump, the things that Carney promised back in the spring simply have not happened.

00:09:04.860 He is under-delivered.

00:09:06.000 Now, could that change after a budget the PMO is spinning will be historic?

00:09:10.720 It could.

00:09:12.100 This moment has revealed the limits to our economic independence, he says, presumably referring to Trump.

00:09:18.360 So, he said, we must change how we do some things.

00:09:22.100 Sure.

00:09:23.220 Yes, of course.

00:09:24.920 But will we?

00:09:26.380 Will he?

00:09:28.120 Fuzziness.

00:09:28.740 Final point.

00:09:29.280 To be fair, Mark Carney hasn't been a politician for a long time, but he's a quick learner.

00:09:34.560 Liberal prime minister, like many prime ministers, is hard to pin down.

00:09:38.440 He recalls the proverbial jello on the wall, and I don't mean Biafra.

00:09:42.660 His speech was full of such fuzziness.

00:09:44.960 Because reading it, listening to it, you can't tell if he's for or against deficits, immigration, workers, pipelines, or a raft of other things.

00:09:53.940 You can't tell if he wants to cudgel Trump or cuddle Trump.

00:09:59.000 His speech was a masterpiece of fuzziness, with liberal, excuse me, liberal helpings of arrogance, contradictions, and failed promises.

00:10:06.980 One can only hope that his big budget is going to do a lot better, because he and we need to.

00:10:14.800 We're going nowhere

00:10:18.980 I'm being speedy about it

00:10:23.000 I've got no answers

00:10:26.620 But this is not

00:10:29.280 Motherfuckers or sinners

00:10:30.920 Raising beginners

00:10:32.240 Getting it's always mind over matter

00:10:34.500 Bigger and badder

00:10:35.840 Always have to question the leaders

00:10:38.040 Question the leaders

00:10:39.340 Do you have original feelings or liminal feelings?

00:10:42.920 It's just one thing to fail

00:10:44.320 They say that's just the way it is

00:11:01.920 Can't do a thing about it

00:11:05.920 So I refuse to live

00:11:09.120 So my people are dying to ditches

00:11:13.580 Burned all the witches

00:11:14.800 Now they're at the bus that you've got

00:11:16.920 My alien flock

00:11:18.240 If you don't keep your good Christian name

00:11:20.480 Your good Christian name

00:11:21.860 Then they don't have original feelings

00:11:24.220 Or liminal feelings

00:11:25.500 What do they feel?

00:11:28.580 They touch you every single thing

00:11:31.120 Every single one

00:11:38.000 Every single

00:11:40.860 Anything else

00:11:44.780 Every single

00:11:48.000 Anything else

00:11:51.780 I'm going nowhere

00:12:05.520 There is me way

00:12:09.780 I've got no answers

00:12:12.940 But this is not

00:12:15.820 My

00:12:16.220 Fultures or sinners

00:12:17.480 Raising beginners

00:12:18.820 Getting it's always mind over matter

00:12:21.040 Bigger and badder

00:12:22.460 Always have to question the leaders

00:12:24.640 Question the leaders

00:12:25.980 Do you have original feelings

00:12:28.200 Or liminal feelings?

00:12:29.820 What do you feel?

00:12:30.960 Oh

00:12:34.320 What do you feel?

00:12:58.000 What you feel?

00:12:58.240 Anything else

00:13:03.780 Anything you know

00:13:06.540 Anything you know

00:13:33.780 And we're back, we're back with Brian and Lely

00:13:38.440 And if you listen carefully, or maybe not carefully

00:13:40.740 You can hear dogs barking in the background

00:13:42.480 He's got the window open, it's a nice day

00:13:44.480 And they're barking at the dog park

00:13:46.660 My dogs are asleep at my feet

00:13:48.620 My dog is sitting in my lap

00:13:51.440 But she's near silent

00:13:53.580 She's near mute

00:13:54.560 So you won't really hear her

00:13:56.920 Unless she starts making her truffle pig noises

00:13:59.420 As she looks for pets

00:14:00.640 You know, if I stop petting her, she'll be up in my face

00:14:03.260 Now I understand that

00:14:05.120 It's your fault

00:14:06.740 That the Jays won last night

00:14:08.740 Because you didn't do something with Chloe

00:14:10.620 I get a text

00:14:12.460 So yes, I was at the game last night

00:14:14.780 Last minute, friend texts me

00:14:17.500 Hey, I've got two tickets

00:14:19.260 Do you want to come with me?

00:14:20.900 So I said yes

00:14:21.800 Now I'm flying solo this weekend

00:14:23.760 Better half is

00:14:26.100 Back home in Saskatoon

00:14:28.440 But Chloe has been wearing

00:14:31.080 This bandana

00:14:32.000 From the

00:14:33.460 I want it all towel

00:14:34.540 They handed it out

00:14:35.220 At the very first

00:14:36.120 Playoff game

00:14:37.520 Which I went to

00:14:38.700 I've been to one game

00:14:40.620 In each series so far

00:14:41.720 So I think

00:14:43.000 I've got my quota for this year

00:14:44.200 So I didn't put it on

00:14:45.740 And as the Jays start losing

00:14:47.100 I get a text

00:14:47.960 You didn't put the band

00:14:49.680 Dan on Chloe

00:14:50.920 Thank you

00:14:51.580 I was like

00:14:53.060 Dan, how did you know?

00:14:54.920 I looked at it

00:14:56.000 I had meant to

00:14:57.000 And I just forgot about it

00:15:00.380 Rushing out the door

00:15:01.200 To hit the subway

00:15:01.980 And yeah

00:15:03.380 So it's my fault

00:15:04.740 That Jays lost

00:15:05.300 Not the fact that Yamamoto

00:15:07.000 Pitched all nine innings

00:15:08.980 And I'm not sure

00:15:11.400 He hit a hundred pitches

00:15:12.880 It's not that

00:15:14.580 No, it's that

00:15:15.600 I didn't put the bandana on Chloe

00:15:17.500 Clearly

00:15:17.800 Yeah, Yamamoto was not human

00:15:19.960 In my opinion

00:15:20.460 You know what he did

00:15:21.160 After the game?

00:15:22.220 I was reading this morning

00:15:23.200 Did he go to sleep

00:15:24.120 On David Schneider's couch?

00:15:25.600 He cleaned up

00:15:27.620 The Dodgers dugout

00:15:29.100 He cleaned it up

00:15:30.780 So the

00:15:31.760 So the janitors

00:15:32.880 Didn't have to

00:15:33.880 It's like

00:15:34.680 Fuck

00:15:34.940 Yamamoto

00:15:35.800 You're making it so hard

00:15:37.000 To hate you

00:15:37.860 Like it just

00:15:39.380 Yeah, he cleaned it up

00:15:41.160 Apparently

00:15:41.540 This is what he does

00:15:42.540 Yeah

00:15:43.460 Anyway

00:15:43.800 The Jays bats

00:15:44.940 Could not come alive

00:15:45.980 Last night

00:15:46.780 No

00:15:47.240 But the team's still good

00:15:50.040 Yeah

00:15:50.980 We're a solid team

00:15:51.780 There's a lot of bench strength there

00:15:54.860 And Ohtani

00:15:56.740 You know

00:15:57.580 To me

00:15:58.000 He's just like

00:15:58.620 I just love how the fans go bananas

00:16:00.700 When he comes out

00:16:01.840 We don't need you

00:16:03.740 We don't need you

00:16:05.260 He has been

00:16:06.960 For the most part

00:16:08.840 Ineffective

00:16:09.380 I know he got his

00:16:10.280 His homer

00:16:11.340 On

00:16:11.880 In game one

00:16:13.000 But it came at a time

00:16:14.300 When

00:16:14.520 All right

00:16:15.660 Well it's already

00:16:16.400 Eleven to two

00:16:17.400 So

00:16:17.740 We'll let you have it

00:16:19.560 You know

00:16:20.320 But

00:16:20.860 You know

00:16:21.900 The Dodgers

00:16:22.400 Clearly have bench strength

00:16:23.580 As well

00:16:24.140 And

00:16:24.860 It's good series

00:16:26.480 These are the two things

00:16:27.920 As I was saying

00:16:28.580 In my

00:16:28.920 My sub stack

00:16:29.780 Yesterday

00:16:30.640 These are the two things

00:16:32.580 That have been

00:16:32.960 Occupying my life

00:16:34.340 And this week

00:16:35.000 They collided

00:16:35.600 It's baseball

00:16:36.380 And politics

00:16:37.300 Well let's talk about that

00:16:38.780 I

00:16:39.160 Yeah

00:16:39.600 So

00:16:40.040 The ad

00:16:41.280 You're telling me

00:16:42.280 The ad

00:16:42.820 Played on Fox

00:16:44.020 I didn't see it on Sportsnet

00:16:45.620 Which I've had to subscribe to

00:16:47.440 So

00:16:48.940 Why don't we just pause here

00:16:50.480 We'll play the audio

00:16:51.640 For the ad

00:16:53.220 Which I acknowledge

00:16:54.140 Is not as great

00:16:55.400 As the visuals

00:16:56.440 But it is from a radio address

00:16:58.900 That President Reagan gave

00:17:00.700 So we'll pause here

00:17:02.120 And then I'm going to ask you

00:17:02.940 To analyze the ad

00:17:03.880 Okay

00:17:04.440 So

00:17:04.640 Here we go

00:17:05.600 When someone says

00:17:07.340 Let's impose tariffs

00:17:08.520 On foreign imports

00:17:09.640 It looks like they're doing

00:17:11.080 The patriotic thing

00:17:12.200 By protecting American products

00:17:14.180 And jobs

00:17:15.120 And sometimes

00:17:17.860 For a short while it works

00:17:19.200 But only for a short time

00:17:21.180 But over the long run

00:17:23.140 Such trade barriers

00:17:24.280 Hurt every American worker

00:17:25.860 And consume

00:17:27.440 High tariffs inevitably lead

00:17:30.920 To retaliation

00:17:31.820 By foreign countries

00:17:32.820 And the triggering

00:17:34.100 Of fierce trade wars

00:17:35.260 Then the worst happens

00:17:37.500 Markets shrink and collapse

00:17:39.800 Businesses and industries

00:17:41.080 Shut down

00:17:41.720 And millions of people

00:17:43.360 Lose their jobs

00:17:44.300 Throughout the world

00:17:46.760 There's a growing realization

00:17:48.380 That the weight of prosperity

00:17:50.140 For all nations

00:17:51.180 Is rejecting protectionist legislation

00:17:53.820 And promoting fair

00:17:55.300 And free competition

00:17:56.280 America's jobs

00:17:58.480 And growth

00:17:59.500 Are at stake

00:18:00.420 So there is the ad

00:18:03.320 That Doug Ford

00:18:04.900 And his guys

00:18:06.200 Put together

00:18:06.860 To play in the United States

00:18:08.700 Of America

00:18:09.300 And Donald Trump

00:18:11.820 Lost his shit

00:18:13.500 Over that ad

00:18:14.920 Brian

00:18:16.260 Should he have lost

00:18:17.320 His shit over the ad

00:18:18.460 No it's

00:18:20.620 You know

00:18:22.120 I've seen

00:18:22.900 Some people

00:18:23.580 Even Canadians

00:18:24.480 Who are just

00:18:25.820 In the anti-Trump

00:18:26.780 Anti-Carney

00:18:27.560 Therefore I must cheer

00:18:28.560 For Donald Trump

00:18:29.420 Bandwagon

00:18:30.200 I've seen some people

00:18:31.940 Calling it

00:18:32.460 An attack ad

00:18:33.640 It's not an attack ad

00:18:34.760 That ad is a hug

00:18:36.160 Not a punch

00:18:36.960 It's

00:18:39.080 Yeah it's using

00:18:39.960 Reagan's own words

00:18:41.060 To explain

00:18:41.920 Why tariffs

00:18:42.800 Are bad

00:18:44.160 Now

00:18:44.820 When he did

00:18:46.560 His true social post

00:18:47.520 The other day

00:18:48.140 Trump pointed

00:18:51.600 To a statement

00:18:52.200 By the

00:18:52.760 Ronald Reagan Foundation

00:18:54.160 Which made

00:18:55.800 Two false claims

00:18:56.720 They claimed

00:18:59.560 That

00:19:00.080 The government

00:19:02.220 Of Ontario

00:19:02.800 Did not seek

00:19:03.860 Nor obtain

00:19:04.660 Permission

00:19:05.200 To

00:19:05.700 Use the audio

00:19:07.820 Or video

00:19:08.760 Of President Reagan

00:19:10.360 And they claimed

00:19:11.940 That it misrepresents

00:19:13.140 His

00:19:13.860 His views

00:19:15.560 Neither one of those

00:19:17.840 Is true

00:19:18.220 First off

00:19:19.440 Any creative work

00:19:21.080 Produced by

00:19:22.300 A federal

00:19:23.420 Civil servant

00:19:24.200 In the course

00:19:24.900 Of their duties

00:19:25.660 Is public domain

00:19:27.040 That's basic

00:19:28.300 Copyright law

00:19:29.300 Now

00:19:30.020 Most people

00:19:30.860 Don't know

00:19:31.360 Basic copyright law

00:19:32.420 But I've been in the media

00:19:33.260 For a long time

00:19:34.020 There's one class

00:19:34.820 I paid attention to

00:19:35.780 Mulholland College

00:19:36.620 And that was media law

00:19:38.720 Because they didn't

00:19:39.640 Want to ever get sued

00:19:40.700 And so far

00:19:41.840 Touch wood

00:19:42.740 That hasn't happened

00:19:43.920 So

00:19:44.740 You know

00:19:46.000 No need to ask

00:19:46.860 For permission

00:19:47.440 Like

00:19:48.700 They don't do

00:19:50.040 Radio addresses

00:19:50.960 Anymore

00:19:51.580 But for decades

00:19:53.060 The White House

00:19:53.620 Would produce these

00:19:54.360 And send them out

00:19:55.280 For free

00:19:55.800 For people to use

00:19:56.560 When I was a weekend

00:19:57.260 Radio editor

00:19:58.040 It was a great way

00:19:59.140 To get clips

00:19:59.880 You got the president

00:20:01.040 Speaking for five minutes

00:20:02.480 He's going to say something

00:20:03.560 That's newsworthy

00:20:04.900 And you can pull a clip

00:20:05.940 And put it in the radio newscast

00:20:07.540 You don't have to air

00:20:08.940 The whole thing

00:20:09.540 Fair enough

00:20:10.240 But what about

00:20:11.040 Trump's allegation

00:20:12.260 That it misquoted

00:20:14.220 Reagan

00:20:14.640 And the foundation

00:20:15.500 Said the same thing

00:20:16.440 What about that?

00:20:17.660 They're full of shit

00:20:18.360 So

00:20:20.760 The worst thing

00:20:23.040 That Ontario

00:20:23.600 Can be guilty of

00:20:24.720 Is that

00:20:25.400 When they edited

00:20:26.980 The ad

00:20:27.460 They took a bit

00:20:28.280 From here

00:20:28.740 They took a bit

00:20:29.340 From there

00:20:29.740 They took a bit

00:20:30.320 From there

00:20:30.660 You know

00:20:31.760 We all do that

00:20:32.820 When we're

00:20:33.400 Doing TV packs

00:20:35.440 Or radio reports

00:20:37.220 Or books

00:20:37.940 Or anything

00:20:38.860 Books

00:20:39.200 Yeah

00:20:40.080 It was a five minute address

00:20:41.900 They

00:20:42.880 They took parts

00:20:44.440 From here and there

00:20:45.220 And they strung it together

00:20:46.540 And so it's not

00:20:48.880 One long thing

00:20:49.820 That happens

00:20:51.060 All the time

00:20:52.040 The question is

00:20:54.280 Did they

00:20:55.880 Change

00:20:57.220 The fundamental meaning

00:20:58.520 Of his words

00:20:59.180 No

00:20:59.880 So this radio address

00:21:01.560 April 25th

00:21:02.620 1987

00:21:03.240 He's talking about

00:21:05.160 How the president

00:21:05.740 Of Japan

00:21:06.340 Is coming to visit him

00:21:07.820 And he has had to put

00:21:10.300 Tariffs on Japanese

00:21:12.160 Semiconductors

00:21:13.080 But he didn't want

00:21:14.760 To do it

00:21:15.400 He says

00:21:16.080 He explains

00:21:17.840 Why he doesn't

00:21:18.700 Like tariffs

00:21:19.380 How he had recently

00:21:21.000 Expressed this point of view

00:21:22.760 To the prime minister

00:21:23.600 Of Canada

00:21:24.320 He didn't say

00:21:26.020 Mulroney's name

00:21:26.680 But said he had been

00:21:27.420 Speaking to the prime minister

00:21:28.420 Of Canada

00:21:29.000 And expressing that view

00:21:30.580 He explains why

00:21:31.560 He doesn't like tariffs

00:21:32.540 But it goes back

00:21:33.540 To his experience

00:21:34.400 In the Great Depression

00:21:35.880 And how he hopes

00:21:36.960 That he can soon

00:21:37.820 Take them

00:21:38.440 Off the Japanese

00:21:40.220 If they can come

00:21:41.100 To an agreement

00:21:41.720 Would Trump have complained

00:21:43.940 If the ad wasn't working?

00:21:46.620 So

00:21:46.900 I don't know

00:21:48.320 And

00:21:48.700 I've been talking

00:21:50.500 To a lot of smart

00:21:51.300 Political people

00:21:52.080 And you're one of them

00:21:53.700 Who said

00:21:55.440 You know

00:21:55.920 You're the first person

00:21:57.140 That said to me

00:21:57.640 I think it was working

00:21:58.520 And that's why

00:21:59.140 He's freaking out

00:22:00.660 You know

00:22:01.820 He's a tough guy

00:22:02.400 To read

00:22:02.840 Right?

00:22:03.360 Like

00:22:03.520 He just

00:22:04.320 Don't know

00:22:05.500 He mentioned this ad

00:22:06.820 On Tuesday

00:22:07.320 And he wasn't

00:22:07.920 Freaking out

00:22:08.380 He said that

00:22:09.000 He had seen the ad

00:22:10.000 I think he'd seen it

00:22:11.460 The night before

00:22:12.100 During game seven

00:22:13.460 Of the Jays versus Mariners

00:22:15.840 And he just said

00:22:17.600 Oh they're taking out ads

00:22:18.560 If I was Canada

00:22:19.300 I'd take out that ad too

00:22:20.720 Bingo

00:22:21.260 So

00:22:22.600 At some point

00:22:24.040 His view changed

00:22:26.300 And by Thursday night

00:22:27.780 He was freaking out

00:22:28.640 And says

00:22:29.960 All trade talks

00:22:31.480 Are off

00:22:32.000 But

00:22:32.860 Kevin Hassett

00:22:35.360 Who is

00:22:37.340 Trump's

00:22:38.300 National

00:22:38.860 Economic Council

00:22:40.020 Director

00:22:40.500 Smart guy

00:22:41.940 PhD in economics

00:22:43.300 From

00:22:43.680 Wharton School of Business

00:22:45.680 He's

00:22:46.160 You know

00:22:47.720 Very calm

00:22:49.040 And level-headed

00:22:49.800 He was speaking

00:22:51.500 With reporters

00:22:52.140 And said several times

00:22:53.340 That well

00:22:53.880 You know

00:22:54.760 It's not really

00:22:55.360 Just an ad

00:22:56.000 It's that frustration

00:22:57.540 Has been building

00:22:58.240 With Canada

00:22:58.860 And

00:22:59.960 The tough negotiators

00:23:01.060 At one point

00:23:01.720 He even said

00:23:02.400 Someone said

00:23:03.980 Well what's so difficult

00:23:04.820 About negotiating

00:23:05.620 With Canada

00:23:06.300 And he

00:23:07.720 He actually said

00:23:09.140 That there's some

00:23:10.160 Antics that go back

00:23:11.300 To the Trudeau era

00:23:12.280 That are still

00:23:13.380 Hanging around

00:23:14.180 With how we are

00:23:15.880 Entering these negotiations

00:23:18.180 Which is what

00:23:19.040 You've been writing

00:23:19.680 For weeks now

00:23:20.680 Months

00:23:22.040 Yeah

00:23:22.340 The negotiations

00:23:23.140 Have not been going well

00:23:24.460 And the proof is in the pudding

00:23:25.880 We don't have a deal

00:23:26.780 Lots of other people do

00:23:27.880 But we don't

00:23:28.520 I mean the Chinese

00:23:29.180 Last night

00:23:30.040 We all wake up

00:23:30.860 To the news

00:23:31.500 The Chinese

00:23:32.100 Are on the verge

00:23:32.880 Of a deal

00:23:33.300 With the United States of America

00:23:34.380 The Chinese

00:23:35.360 But not us

00:23:36.580 Yeah

00:23:36.840 So

00:23:39.300 Here's the way

00:23:40.700 It's been described to me

00:23:41.680 By

00:23:42.000 By someone

00:23:44.040 In the know

00:23:45.420 Who's been to these meetings

00:23:46.880 We apparently walk in

00:23:49.040 And demand everything

00:23:50.000 And offer nothing

00:23:52.020 Like we just say

00:23:53.700 No to everything

00:23:54.720 That's proposed

00:23:56.060 By the other side

00:23:57.000 And demand

00:23:57.980 Everything

00:23:59.240 We are protectionist

00:24:00.960 And I'll be a fart

00:24:02.720 In an elevator

00:24:03.240 For everyone

00:24:04.360 That just wants

00:24:05.040 To believe that Canada

00:24:05.860 Is pure as driven snow

00:24:07.160 We are very

00:24:10.560 Very protectionist

00:24:11.840 And the Americans

00:24:13.300 Want to break

00:24:13.920 Some of that down

00:24:14.460 They do not want

00:24:16.100 To get rid of

00:24:16.600 Supply management

00:24:17.260 They may eventually

00:24:18.560 Get to that point

00:24:19.340 If they're so frustrated

00:24:20.220 But the Americans

00:24:22.100 Have never said

00:24:23.040 To me

00:24:24.440 To others

00:24:24.940 Yeah

00:24:25.540 Supply management

00:24:26.300 Has to go

00:24:26.900 So let's talk about

00:24:28.220 Last round

00:24:28.560 They negotiated

00:24:29.540 What they thought

00:24:30.540 Was a certain amount

00:24:31.360 Of access

00:24:31.900 To our market

00:24:32.660 And then we

00:24:33.600 Cockblocked them

00:24:34.360 And said

00:24:35.060 Oh yeah

00:24:35.420 You've got that quota

00:24:36.200 But we're going to

00:24:36.720 Give it to Saputo

00:24:37.520 And Agriper

00:24:38.340 And all these

00:24:39.120 Canadian companies

00:24:39.860 And they'll decide

00:24:40.460 If you get to sell us

00:24:41.320 Cheese

00:24:42.200 Or milk

00:24:43.300 And they didn't

00:24:44.960 So

00:24:45.380 And then we turn around

00:24:46.800 And say

00:24:47.040 See they don't even

00:24:47.780 They don't even

00:24:48.500 Use all their quota

00:24:49.440 Because you won't let them

00:24:51.200 So let's talk about

00:24:52.560 Then the subject

00:24:54.240 Of my column

00:24:55.060 And also your column

00:24:56.920 About Mark Carney

00:24:58.560 So he's been on the job

00:25:00.240 For seven months

00:25:01.080 And on this issue

00:25:02.720 And other issues

00:25:03.820 He's starting to reveal himself

00:25:05.520 I wrote a critical column

00:25:08.000 About him

00:25:08.580 And said that

00:25:09.720 You know

00:25:10.040 He under

00:25:10.480 He oversells

00:25:11.940 And under delivers

00:25:12.740 He's fuzzy

00:25:13.720 He contradicts himself

00:25:15.280 You know

00:25:15.640 Elbows up

00:25:16.320 Elbows down

00:25:17.100 All that kind of stuff

00:25:18.620 Is that kind of thing

00:25:20.880 A

00:25:21.880 Is it true

00:25:22.700 And B

00:25:23.920 If so

00:25:24.800 Is it having an impact

00:25:26.360 On the bottom line

00:25:27.640 Is it affecting him politically

00:25:29.140 Not yet

00:25:30.600 But it will

00:25:31.180 Kind of like

00:25:32.880 Doug Ford

00:25:33.380 Going over the top

00:25:34.360 With like

00:25:34.680 Pouring out

00:25:35.160 Bottles of Crown Royal

00:25:36.340 And threatening

00:25:37.620 Every company

00:25:38.340 That crosses him

00:25:39.300 It's not hurting him yet

00:25:40.820 But it will

00:25:41.420 For Carney

00:25:43.460 I don't think

00:25:44.840 The people that

00:25:46.040 Voted for him

00:25:48.280 With the expectation

00:25:50.120 That he'd be able

00:25:51.100 To handle

00:25:51.560 All the craziness

00:25:52.980 Of the world

00:25:53.480 I don't think

00:25:54.340 They're ready

00:25:54.700 To leave him yet

00:25:55.240 But if he

00:25:55.660 You know

00:25:56.540 It's late October now

00:25:58.560 I think he's only

00:25:59.680 Got two months

00:26:00.540 To start showing results

00:26:02.100 And

00:26:03.480 The PMO

00:26:05.520 Leaking out

00:26:06.160 To the globe

00:26:06.760 The other day

00:26:07.440 That they were

00:26:10.020 Very close

00:26:10.660 To a deal

00:26:11.260 And that we'd

00:26:12.900 Have one

00:26:13.420 Perhaps

00:26:14.160 While they're in Asia

00:26:15.720 That Trump

00:26:16.980 And

00:26:17.540 And Carney

00:26:18.180 And Carney

00:26:18.200 Signed one

00:26:19.040 And then

00:26:19.880 This happens

00:26:20.620 Well first off

00:26:21.540 I was

00:26:21.820 Told by

00:26:23.080 You know

00:26:23.780 Other folks

00:26:24.580 With connections

00:26:25.780 In Washington

00:26:26.520 That

00:26:26.920 They were never

00:26:28.460 Close to a deal

00:26:30.720 The PMO

00:26:31.820 Keeps leaking this out

00:26:32.900 Right

00:26:33.860 Whether it was me

00:26:34.660 Back in June

00:26:35.400 Or others

00:26:36.980 In

00:26:37.580 I was in early June

00:26:38.940 Others were in mid-June

00:26:40.220 You know

00:26:42.220 These claims

00:26:43.960 Of deals

00:26:44.640 Don't come

00:26:45.280 From nowhere

00:26:46.360 And

00:26:47.280 Any of us

00:26:48.160 In the business

00:26:48.660 Worth our salt

00:26:49.320 Don't take something

00:26:50.160 Like that

00:26:50.680 Off of one source

00:26:52.040 And the globe

00:26:53.060 Sighted two

00:26:53.720 I think I had

00:26:55.560 Three or four

00:26:56.800 Telling me

00:26:58.480 A deal

00:26:59.120 Back in early June

00:27:00.000 These things

00:27:01.080 Keep coming up

00:27:01.700 And they come

00:27:02.360 From

00:27:02.820 Carney

00:27:03.800 And his team

00:27:04.720 And those around them

00:27:05.860 And then

00:27:06.880 It doesn't happen

00:27:08.440 And eventually

00:27:09.480 You're looking like

00:27:10.240 The boy who cried wolf

00:27:11.460 Yeah

00:27:11.940 Yeah

00:27:12.560 And it has

00:27:13.960 And you pay a political price

00:27:15.480 It just

00:27:16.840 It seems to me

00:27:18.960 That

00:27:19.720 They've lost

00:27:20.960 The message

00:27:21.700 Or the

00:27:22.200 Narrative

00:27:23.160 That they

00:27:23.700 They preached about

00:27:25.060 In the election campaign

00:27:26.460 That they would do things

00:27:28.560 Differently

00:27:29.300 And they really haven't

00:27:30.620 You know

00:27:30.820 I was at a dinner

00:27:31.740 Where

00:27:32.880 Chrétien and Harper

00:27:34.060 Debated

00:27:35.280 In quotation marks

00:27:36.380 This week

00:27:36.920 I told you about it

00:27:38.420 I'm not allowed

00:27:39.160 By the rules

00:27:39.880 To quote

00:27:40.520 Exactly what was said

00:27:42.260 But let's

00:27:42.840 Let's put it this way

00:27:43.860 There was quite a bit

00:27:44.860 Of criticism

00:27:45.600 Heard at this event

00:27:47.320 Of Justin Trudeau

00:27:48.960 Going down to Mar-a-Lago

00:27:50.100 With his tail

00:27:50.760 Between his legs

00:27:51.740 With dogs barking

00:27:53.500 In the background

00:27:54.140 To suck up

00:27:56.000 To Donald Trump

00:27:56.860 And the view

00:27:57.600 Expressed at that event

00:27:59.080 By these two

00:27:59.920 Very successful

00:28:00.780 Prime ministers

00:28:01.540 Is that kind of

00:28:02.820 Approach doesn't work

00:28:03.800 With this guy

00:28:04.540 Well

00:28:05.320 That's what

00:28:06.240 Mark Carney's doing

00:28:07.200 Isn't it

00:28:07.680 That's what he's doing

00:28:08.660 Yeah

00:28:10.800 I think I've said

00:28:11.980 It to you before

00:28:12.640 Somewhere between

00:28:13.440 Doug Ford

00:28:14.680 Wanting to fight

00:28:16.040 Trump

00:28:17.000 At every turn

00:28:17.800 Like a walking

00:28:18.440 Irish bar brawl

00:28:19.500 And Mark Carney

00:28:20.740 Rolling over on his back

00:28:21.980 To show his belly

00:28:22.840 Like a dog

00:28:23.560 With him

00:28:23.860 Praise

00:28:24.360 Is the sweet spot

00:28:26.100 Where in the spectrum

00:28:28.760 Between those two

00:28:30.040 You want to land

00:28:31.400 Is up for debate

00:28:33.380 But

00:28:33.860 You know

00:28:35.920 Carney

00:28:36.280 Cananaskis

00:28:37.940 Visits to the White House

00:28:39.840 He's abusive

00:28:40.540 In his praise

00:28:41.160 Of Donald Trump

00:28:41.880 He still talks tough

00:28:44.460 About him

00:28:44.880 When he's back here

00:28:45.980 At home

00:28:46.440 By himself

00:28:47.800 But even in Egypt

00:28:49.640 You know

00:28:50.320 Trying to suck up

00:28:51.540 To him a bit

00:28:52.040 Look

00:28:52.620 I'm fine with that

00:28:54.060 If you're going to

00:28:54.560 Get results

00:28:55.200 You clearly

00:28:56.460 Trump

00:28:57.220 And Carney

00:28:59.060 Clearly have

00:28:59.740 Some kind of

00:29:00.240 Rapport

00:29:00.680 I'm told that

00:29:03.520 Trump respects him

00:29:05.280 But doesn't trust him

00:29:06.160 Yet

00:29:06.420 Which is fair

00:29:09.080 They don't know

00:29:09.660 Each other that well

00:29:10.500 But if you've got

00:29:11.180 A decent rapport

00:29:12.140 Use that

00:29:13.080 For the benefit

00:29:14.460 Of the country

00:29:15.200 And instead

00:29:17.000 You're a fusible

00:29:18.000 Praise

00:29:18.580 When you're with him

00:29:19.740 You're still

00:29:20.580 Elbows up

00:29:21.360 Talk

00:29:21.900 When you're

00:29:22.620 At home

00:29:23.500 And taking pot shots

00:29:25.600 Or

00:29:26.620 You know

00:29:27.260 Making

00:29:27.760 Dumb foreign policy

00:29:29.260 Pronouncements

00:29:30.620 That put you

00:29:31.120 Offside of him

00:29:32.020 And will

00:29:32.940 You know

00:29:34.040 Destroy

00:29:34.560 Trade negotiations

00:29:36.100 Just

00:29:37.500 Be more consistent

00:29:39.020 Well whatever

00:29:41.420 The strategy is

00:29:42.660 None of us

00:29:43.520 Can quite figure out

00:29:44.420 What it is

00:29:45.100 One thing we do know

00:29:46.540 It isn't working

00:29:47.660 I can't figure out

00:29:50.160 Trump's strategy

00:29:51.100 But I also can't

00:29:52.480 Figure out our own

00:29:53.640 And that's the

00:29:54.940 Frustrating part

00:29:56.060 Well my view is always

00:29:57.460 Trump's lack of strategy

00:29:58.740 Is the strategy

00:29:59.860 You know

00:30:00.840 It's the art of the deal

00:30:02.000 Stuff

00:30:02.300 He really does do that

00:30:03.560 And it's working for him

00:30:05.420 He's getting the

00:30:07.540 Manufacturing base

00:30:08.540 Back to the United States

00:30:09.660 Of America

00:30:10.160 And he is getting

00:30:10.960 Revenue from

00:30:11.920 Tariffs

00:30:12.640 Although

00:30:12.980 Eventually

00:30:13.860 The American people

00:30:14.700 Will pay

00:30:15.000 But in the meantime

00:30:16.160 My friend

00:30:16.700 I was jealous

00:30:17.220 You were at the game

00:30:18.060 But maybe not that game

00:30:19.340 Last night

00:30:20.220 Yeah

00:30:20.960 Yeah

00:30:21.620 So hopefully

00:30:22.760 Game 3 looks a lot better

00:30:24.240 Thank you so much

00:30:25.120 My friend

00:30:25.540 Talk soon

00:30:26.660 All these folk

00:30:34.820 All these folk

00:30:47.800 They think that I'm evil

00:30:48.880 They think that I'm evil

00:30:49.780 Like I am the living devil

00:30:52.820 In South

00:30:53.820 All these folk

00:30:56.180 They think that I'm evil

00:30:58.180 Like I am the living devil

00:31:01.200 Look I'm standing right here

00:31:14.000 Before you

00:31:15.100 Before you I can only offer

00:31:17.220 What I've been told

00:31:19.160 And you look on with eyes

00:31:22.180 From another

00:31:23.280 How can I compete with an ingrained thought

00:31:27.540 And tell your followers

00:31:29.820 The words that I'm crazy

00:31:31.040 That I'm crazy

00:31:31.660 If it stops them questioning anymore

00:31:35.540 Oh keep them tidy

00:31:38.160 Keep them beside you

00:31:40.420 And keep them coming back for more

00:31:44.360 All these folk

00:31:54.780 They think that I'm evil

00:31:56.720 Like I am the living devil

00:31:59.640 In South

00:32:00.820 All these folk

00:32:03.120 They think that I'm evil

00:32:05.060 Like I am the living devil

00:32:08.160 Look I'm standing

00:32:36.740 Right here before you

00:32:38.780 I can only offer

00:32:40.900 What I've been told

00:32:42.820 And you look on with eyes

00:32:45.920 From another

00:32:46.940 How can I compete with an ingrained thought

00:32:51.220 And tell your followers

00:32:53.960 That I'm crazy

00:32:55.320 If it stops them questioning anymore

00:32:59.300 Oh keep them tidy

00:33:01.860 Keep them beside you

00:33:04.120 And keep them coming back for more

00:33:07.960 guitar solo

00:33:09.560 guitar solo

00:33:13.900 guitar solo

00:33:17.460 guitar solo

00:33:22.500 guitar solo

00:33:22.780 guitar solo

00:33:25.000 guitar solo

00:33:25.840 guitar solo

00:33:26.880 guitar solo

00:33:27.220 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:33:46.500 I'm the living, doubling South

00:33:49.640 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:33:54.880 I'm the living, doubling South

00:33:58.020 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:34:03.180 I'm the living, doubling South

00:34:06.380 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:34:11.600 I'm the living, doubling

00:34:24.880 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:34:36.700 I'm the living, doubling South

00:34:40.020 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:34:45.100 I'm the living, doubling South

00:34:48.240 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:34:53.400 I'm the living, doubling South

00:34:56.580 All these folk, they think that I'm evil like I

00:35:01.720 I'm the living devil

00:35:03.860 Ooh

00:35:09.000 Ooh

00:35:27.000 Du, du, du, du.

00:35:57.000 Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

00:36:04.000 Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

00:36:12.000 Settle your head peg

00:36:17.000 Send your bones to sleep

00:36:22.000 Every moment that we rest

00:36:27.000 Brings a moment's peace

00:36:32.000 You'll not be missing nothing

00:36:37.000 The sunshine's sleeping too

00:36:42.000 The stars are lining up low

00:36:48.000 To watch your dreams with you

00:36:53.000 And if you make a wish on one

00:36:59.000 Before you go to sleep

00:37:04.000 You might meet a fairy star

00:37:10.000 Out there in them dreams

00:37:15.000 Good night stars

00:37:18.000 Good night sky

00:37:20.000 Good night moon and sunshine

00:37:25.000 Everyone I love lies

00:37:31.000 Under you tonight

00:37:35.000 Good night trees

00:37:38.000 Good night bees

00:37:40.000 Good night rivers and valleys

00:37:45.000 Good night big old, bold world

00:37:51.000 Good night world, good night

00:37:55.000 Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

00:38:06.000 Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

00:38:09.000 Ooh, ooh, ooh

00:38:12.000 Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

00:38:24.000 Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

00:38:30.000 Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and welcome back to our, it's Friday, so it's time for our all-star panel for this week in politics.

00:38:59.780 Please welcome Warren Kinsella, former special advisor to Jean Chrétien, CEO of the Daisy Group, and Michael Burns, the CEO of Canada's Valor Games.

00:39:07.320 To the both of you, I say happy Friday.

00:39:10.500 Happy Friday.

00:39:11.180 Good to be here.

00:39:11.920 Let's talk bail reform.

00:39:13.620 You know, we heard the Conservatives put forth their own bill.

00:39:18.200 I think we all knew that it wasn't going to be adopted by the Liberals, but they did promise, we promise you, that the Conservatives are going to like our own version of this when we come forth with ours.

00:39:28.000 And about a couple of weeks later, that's exactly what they did.

00:39:30.940 And we on this show said, listen, we like what we're reading in the headlines, but the devil is in the details.

00:39:36.260 And it turns out the devil is in fact in the details, and we find the devil lacking, at least from my perspective.

00:39:41.560 A lot of symbolic, not necessarily sweeping changes in the bill, minor tweaks like to the consecutive sentencing rule with very narrow crimes that it would apply to.

00:39:51.980 And we've got a lawyer on the panel, so let's go to you, Warren.

00:39:55.200 What do you think?

00:39:55.820 Is this rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic?

00:39:58.080 No, it's big.

00:40:00.480 Is it?

00:40:00.760 It's significant.

00:40:02.080 Yeah, and you can tell by virtue of the fact that the Tories aren't complaining very much about it at all.

00:40:07.640 Law and order is a conservative issue, as you know.

00:40:10.740 You know, Liberals are better on health care.

00:40:12.960 And it's big.

00:40:15.700 The question I've got, you know, I looked at some of it, and it's like, I'm not sure that's going to pass a charter challenge.

00:40:21.800 Like the criminal defense bar, there's some very capable criminal defense lawyers in this country, from B.C. to Newfoundland.

00:40:29.220 And they're looking at that package and saying, oh, I can knock that out.

00:40:33.080 I can knock that out.

00:40:33.620 Really?

00:40:34.160 So what Parliament has to say is obviously of great significance.

00:40:39.140 It's our supreme legislature.

00:40:41.600 They're the ones responsible for amending the criminal code.

00:40:45.120 But all of this stuff is going to get tested in charter challenges.

00:40:48.820 That's number one.

00:40:49.460 Number two, very quickly.

00:40:50.380 In fairness to the feds, whether it's the Tories in charge or the Liberals or whomever, their responsibility for criminal justice is just the criminal code.

00:40:59.700 The funding of the criminal justice system, where actually the biggest problem exists, is at the provincial level.

00:41:06.760 They pay for the salaries of the prosecutors.

00:41:09.500 They pay for the salaries of the judges.

00:41:12.200 They build the jails.

00:41:13.660 So if we don't have room to put these bad guys who shouldn't be out on bail, that's more of a responsibility of the provinces than the feds.

00:41:22.480 And then municipally, of course, Ben, as you know, they pay for the cops.

00:41:26.440 If we don't have enough cops, that's the same.

00:41:28.360 So everybody's got a role to play here.

00:41:30.420 Everybody can share in some of the blame.

00:41:32.660 But I have to say, I was surprised.

00:41:34.720 I think it was big.

00:41:35.440 Well, so I'm going to defer to Warren on almost everything he said, with the exception of the demonstration of that it's big is that the Tories don't have a lot to say.

00:41:46.960 Because they are Mike Burns, because they are the party of law and order, at least traditionally, then they're probably recognizing that any leap forward, however big or small, is something they have to get behind.

00:41:59.660 And so long as the situation tomorrow, legislatively, is better than today, then it's something they have to work towards and they have to be part of.

00:42:08.000 Otherwise, they'll be viewed as obstructionists.

00:42:12.580 Ben, go Jays go.

00:42:14.680 Yes, let's start with that.

00:42:15.700 Yeah.

00:42:16.960 Look, I actually think Ottawa finally got part of this right.

00:42:23.140 Yeah.

00:42:23.500 Where I do worry is around young offenders.

00:42:26.820 I think that you just can't shrink the adult system and call it youth justice.

00:42:31.600 Rehabilitation, I think, still has to be the goal and not revenge.

00:42:35.360 Otherwise, I think we're funding short-term safety at a cost for long-term failure.

00:42:40.580 So it'll be interesting.

00:42:41.880 I think Warren raises some good points around charter challenges going forward.

00:42:45.960 But I think this is definitely a move in the right direction.

00:42:48.780 All right.

00:42:49.380 Well, I'm glad that Warren brought up charter challenges because I wonder whether lawyers who make that their stock in trade are going to be looking at Saskatchewan in the coming months.

00:42:58.980 Because Scott Moe announced that he's taking the bold move of putting forth in the fall.

00:43:06.100 The Saskatchewan party is going to table the Compassionate Care Act, which is essentially going to be a new law that says that if your life has been destroyed by drugs and you are in the throes of addiction, and if you are being controlled by the drugs, then you don't necessarily have the wherewithal to make informed decisions.

00:43:27.200 And we're going to make one for you, and we're going to force you into treatment.

00:43:31.960 And I cannot believe that in Canada in 2025, civil liberties groups won't have a problem with that, Warren.

00:43:39.220 No, they will, absolutely.

00:43:42.940 But, you know, to some extent, he's right.

00:43:45.460 And I say that as somebody, I did a magazine piece a few months ago where I sat down on the ground in the dirt with fentanyl addicts.

00:43:53.020 Entire families are addicted to fentanyl in Belleville, near where I live.

00:43:58.140 And, you know, they said to me, Warren, you don't understand this drug.

00:44:02.680 Yeah.

00:44:02.800 The first time you take fentanyl, you're hooked.

00:44:06.360 That's it.

00:44:07.180 Your entire focus of your life.

00:44:09.060 So, you know, to me, to deal with fentanyl, which is the biggest problem in urban centers, meth is the problem in rural centers, is you've got to have housing for these people.

00:44:20.160 They're not, it's been, a program is not going to work with them.

00:44:23.160 And they've told me this, a program is not going to work if they're living on a sidewalk.

00:44:27.040 Yeah.

00:44:27.320 We need to create housing.

00:44:29.460 And why, you know, city, like the city of Toronto, every time some millionaire decides he's going to, or she's going to build, you know, these little tiny homes for some of the homeless people, the city comes along and tears them down.

00:44:41.540 Like it's bananas to me.

00:44:43.120 We need to, like, this is a big, big problem.

00:44:46.700 And the one thing we need to acknowledge is the enormity of the impact of fentanyl on the human body.

00:44:53.640 Fentanyl is the most addictive drug we've ever had in our history.

00:44:56.900 That to me, so Mo is right.

00:44:58.560 Some people are going to welcome treatment.

00:45:00.840 Some people are going to welcome getting out the street.

00:45:03.260 Those that don't, there's going to have to be some compelling.

00:45:06.720 And the addicts I've talked to agree with that.

00:45:08.760 Yeah.

00:45:09.020 And, and look, when, how many times have we heard Mike Burns?

00:45:11.600 We've heard addicts say, like, during, I mean, I've watched enough of that show, Intervention, where, where the, where the interventionist says, you aren't talking to your brother or your sister.

00:45:23.060 You are talking, the drug is in control.

00:45:25.780 The drug is in control.

00:45:27.020 So that, the drug is going to fight back.

00:45:28.780 And, and, and, and in the, in the situations where the drug leaves that person's system and they have a moment of clarity, oftentimes they'll say, thank you.

00:45:38.900 I, I, I wouldn't have done this without being forced into treatment.

00:45:42.520 And so I, I, you know, I, I know that we live in Canada, Mike Burns in 2025, where charter challenges seem to be popping up every single day on almost every issue.

00:45:52.640 But this is definitely one where I do hope that, that, that, that even if I, a lawyer makes a compelling case, a judge says, no, no, no, not on this one.

00:46:03.240 Agree.

00:46:03.780 I mean, look, sometimes you've got to step in when someone can't save themselves.

00:46:07.480 And I believe that forced treatment isn't a punishment.

00:46:10.860 It's compassion.

00:46:12.040 If someone overdoses every week, leaving them on the street in the name of choice, it just isn't humane.

00:46:18.240 It's neglect.

00:46:19.080 Yeah.

00:46:19.260 And I agree with Warren.

00:46:20.240 We've got to make sure that they get the treatment that they need, but when they're out, that we provide the support around them, including housing, counseling, and job support programs as well.

00:46:30.820 Exactly.

00:46:31.440 And, you know, we, we, we were talking with the mayor of, of Barry on this show just yesterday and just a drug addiction and homelessness are not on the Venn diagram.

00:46:43.220 They, they, they, they intersect, but they don't overlap completely.

00:46:46.220 Um, but even he said with the homelessness issue in his city, after declaring, um, um, a state of emergency, he said, once we get people into, uh, housing, it's still a two year process.

00:46:58.260 It's at least a two year process where they, where we work with them to transition them from being somebody who would self identify as unhoused or homeless into a productive, um, integrated member of society.

00:47:11.380 It's not an overnight thing.

00:47:12.900 And if it's, if that's a pure play, a pure homeless play, then I got to think it's a five, 10 year program sometimes with people who are in the, uh, in the grips of drug addiction.

00:47:22.000 Uh, Warren, I'll give you, I'll give you the last word on this.

00:47:25.780 Totally agree with that.

00:47:26.680 And Barry is one of the cities, you know, one of these smaller cities that's actually had to declare a state of emergency because they're, they've been unable to deal with the issue on their own.

00:47:36.420 So, um, you know, the mayor is right. And like, guys, we're seeing this problem, not just in places like Toronto, like in Bancroft, I've been in Bancroft and they've got a fentanyl problem.

00:47:47.700 So it's everywhere. And, um, you know, it's an all hands on deck situation and governments need to step up. Some of them look like they're prepared to do that.

00:47:56.840 All right. Well, we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about the battle, uh, between the Titans in Canada and the United States and how it's been halted.

00:48:05.700 I'm not talking about the World Series. I'm talking about trade talks between Canada and the United States. And who is to blame?

00:48:11.740 Well, if you listen to Donald Trump, he'll say the ghost, the ghost of Ronald Reagan.

00:48:16.500 We will explain next when our panel returns right here on the Ben Mulroney Show.

00:48:27.880 Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show.

00:48:29.920 And a lot of us woke up this morning to the earthquake that was caused by Donald Trump's late night truth socials, where he said he took great umbrage to the Ontario government, although he said it was the Canadian government, summoning the spirit falsely under false pretenses of Ronald Reagan to chastise the Americans for their use of of tariffs.

00:48:50.500 And because of that, all trade talks are, uh, are officially cut off. He described us as cheaters. We're trying to influence the Supreme Court.

00:49:00.120 Mike Burns, um, makes, try to make sense of the nonsensical here.

00:49:07.120 Look, uh, Ben, I honestly, I really have to wonder what Premier Ford thought he was trying to achieve here.

00:49:12.560 You know, spending $75 million of Ontario taxpayer money attacking the Trump administration.

00:49:19.820 Uh, you know, it's a, it's akin to poking a bear and being surprised when it bites.

00:49:23.880 Yeah.

00:49:24.760 I don't know, man.

00:49:25.740 I don't understand.

00:49:26.920 You know, Trump did what Trump does and he slammed the door into the talks.

00:49:31.000 And I guess the question I have was this coordinated with Ottawa and the other premiers?

00:49:35.160 Yeah.

00:49:35.420 And that's like, yeah.

00:49:36.900 What was diplomacy?

00:49:38.120 It failed.

00:49:38.880 It, well, that, see, I don't think it was, I don't think he was trying to achieve diplomacy.

00:49:41.560 Uh, and I, I, you know, when, when I hear that, it's like, uh, dude, that's like poking a bear.

00:49:48.220 It's like, it's like, um, I, I want to choose my words carefully, but I'm reminded of the abusive spouse

00:49:55.760 who says, you know, your behavior made me do that.

00:49:59.780 Your behavior made me, uh, be violent towards you.

00:50:03.420 And it's like, no, and, and his over, it's an overreaction.

00:50:07.940 As far as I can see, Warren, I've got a theory here.

00:50:10.740 I've got a theory that Donald Trump is chumming the waters.

00:50:15.340 I think in anticipation of this Supreme Court, uh, challenge to his tariff power that's coming

00:50:22.440 in November, I think his lawyers told him it's not going to go as well as we think it's going

00:50:26.820 to go.

00:50:27.060 It's going to be hard.

00:50:27.880 We don't think we, we've got a victory in the bag.

00:50:29.920 He is already chumming the waters.

00:50:31.540 He is priming the pump.

00:50:32.660 He is telling everybody there's somebody to blame.

00:50:34.700 There's a cheater afoot.

00:50:35.840 It used to be Hillary.

00:50:36.880 It used to be the DOJ.

00:50:37.860 It used to be the FBI used to be Google used to be meta, the wall street journal, you name

00:50:42.060 it.

00:50:42.420 It's his playbook because when he sees a, when he sees a failure on the horizon, if he can

00:50:47.500 claim someone cheated, then it wasn't a failure.

00:50:50.020 And so that's what I think is happening here.

00:50:51.640 Cause he didn't have a problem with this ad when he saw it 10 days ago, seven days ago.

00:50:54.460 I agree with your theory.

00:50:56.680 Um, I'm not sure I agree with our friend, um, uh, but trying to figure out Donald Trump's

00:51:02.180 mind is a good way to lose your mind.

00:51:03.820 My advice to people always, my, my rule is pay attention to what he does, not what he says.

00:51:08.820 So this could be a head fake.

00:51:10.260 We'll find out.

00:51:11.040 But the one thing I can tell you is somebody who's committed the sin of putting together

00:51:16.120 negative ads.

00:51:17.160 I put together attack ads in my youth for the liberal party of Canada attack ads.

00:51:22.500 The reason why guys like me love them is they work a $75 million ad by quoting the former

00:51:28.440 president of the United States.

00:51:29.500 Who's beloved in the Republican party.

00:51:31.680 It was working.

00:51:32.940 Yeah, it was the ad by was in Republican districts.

00:51:37.380 Those Republicans were getting in touch with the white house saying, this is moving public

00:51:40.800 opinion.

00:51:41.380 I'm very nervous about this.

00:51:43.000 Trump leaned on the Reagan presidential center to issue that BS tweet that they did.

00:51:49.540 It was completely false.

00:51:51.220 They, they lied about what the president Reagan said in that 1987 address at camp David.

00:51:59.180 I think it was, they lied.

00:52:01.060 And Trump used that as a pretext to go after Canada.

00:52:03.900 Yeah.

00:52:04.120 And from what I said, he's, he said he is loath to use tariffs, but is a power he thinks

00:52:10.460 the president has to have.

00:52:12.540 And that power shouldn't be circumscribed.

00:52:14.560 The difference is Ronald Reagan came from it from position.

00:52:17.400 I was like, I hate using tariffs, but I will, if I have to Donald Trump comes from it.

00:52:21.180 Like I love using tariffs and I won't stop even if somebody tells me to.

00:52:24.900 And so that to me is, is the biggest difference.

00:52:27.240 It's also, um, the fact that a U S copyright law says, uh, anything a president does or

00:52:33.440 says it's, it's, it's, uh, anyone can use it and alter it.

00:52:37.540 That's part of the law.

00:52:38.680 So, uh, to me, uh, and nobody had a problem with this in Canada with the exception.

00:52:43.760 Well, it was a five minute speech.

00:52:45.760 You can't run an ad that's five minutes long.

00:52:48.760 It's crazy.

00:52:49.400 But the, you know, I've agonized over ellipsis when I'm putting together attack ads.

00:52:54.400 So you have to be faithful and make sure that what you were quoting is representative of

00:52:59.660 what the speaker originally said.

00:53:01.260 And it is like, you check CNN this morning, New York times, every media says actually the

00:53:06.580 ad faithfully quotes president Reagan.

00:53:08.700 Yeah.

00:53:09.080 So it was having an impact.

00:53:11.180 Trump last week when the ad started running said, Oh, I, I actually understand why Canada

00:53:15.340 is doing this.

00:53:16.120 Yeah.

00:53:16.420 So Mike, he's saying he's objecting cause it's working.

00:53:19.120 Yeah.

00:53:19.400 So, so Mike Burns, and I think when, when, when you see somebody cut off all trade negotiations

00:53:25.640 for these sorts of reasons, uh, it just reminds me we're dealing with somebody who, who is

00:53:32.280 incapable of acting in good faith.

00:53:35.280 He is incapable of being an honest broker.

00:53:37.940 And, and, and that just tells me that Mark Carney's got his work cut out for him.

00:53:41.080 However, you did bring up another good point that I think we should pull out here is it seems

00:53:45.800 like there is a lack of coordination between our provinces.

00:53:49.120 That'd be, we're the de facto leaders of this, um, team Canada thing for a very long time.

00:53:54.760 And the new prime minister who probably wants to assert his leadership on that file, but

00:53:58.980 some of the provinces are maybe having a tough time giving up a little bit of that control,

00:54:02.760 Mike.

00:54:04.640 Yeah.

00:54:05.200 Listen, I, Warren might know better than, than I do.

00:54:08.120 Uh, I, I just, I've got to believe, I mean, I, I want to believe that, that Carney and

00:54:13.100 the premiers knew that these ads are going to be running.

00:54:16.140 Um, I think, you know, a team Canada approach is the only approach, uh, that's going to work.

00:54:21.360 And, you know, as I've said on this show before, Trump's unpredictability is his predictability.

00:54:27.820 You, you, you know, that this guy is going to go to these types of tactics and, and yeah,

00:54:33.240 I mean, what, what the prime minister faces right now in the premiers is probably one of

00:54:37.220 the greatest challenges we've, we've had to deal with in, in decades, having to negotiate

00:54:42.000 with, with Trump and his administration.

00:54:44.040 It's not going to be easy.

00:54:45.380 Yeah, it's not going to be easy.

00:54:46.980 And like I said, I think, um, um, this to me reminds me of, of every single time he has

00:54:53.280 seen a failure coming.

00:54:55.160 I mean, he, he, he, he, he didn't know he was going to win the first election.

00:54:59.600 And so he was blaming what he thought was going to be a loss on a whole bunch of people until

00:55:04.460 he won.

00:55:05.480 And it's, it's, but, but it's never a loss for him because somebody always cheats.

00:55:10.780 And in this case, it just feels like he dusted off the old playbook and he sees he's got

00:55:15.180 a fight ahead of him at the Supreme court where he's going to lose some powers that

00:55:18.540 are not his in the first place that he took.

00:55:21.260 And, and he's going to have to give a whole lot of money back.

00:55:23.820 And that changes, that changes the prospects of how he leads moving forward.

00:55:28.420 And he doesn't like that.

00:55:29.500 So if I guess Canada becomes the cheater here, Warren.

00:55:33.880 Bingo.

00:55:34.220 Yeah.

00:55:34.720 Yeah.

00:55:35.240 Bingo.

00:55:35.720 No, absolutely.

00:55:36.540 Ben Mulroney for prime minister.

00:55:38.200 Oh God, no.

00:55:38.920 Ben Mulroney for tin, for tinfoil hat man.

00:55:43.420 No, but you're right.

00:55:44.680 You're right.

00:55:45.180 And, but it does, like I said, it feels like a head fake to me.

00:55:48.240 Let's just wait to see what he does.

00:55:50.600 Is the prime minister yelling at premier Ford on the phone this morning?

00:55:54.800 Possibly.

00:55:55.540 But I think we all know that Ontario would have shown the ad to the feds before.

00:56:00.160 Yeah.

00:56:00.720 And a $75 million ad by 75 million.

00:56:04.700 They would not have run that thing without testing it.

00:56:07.420 And the testing would have shown in groups that it was going to have resonance with the

00:56:12.360 American public.

00:56:13.020 Like, you don't put $75 million behind creative unless you know it's going to have an impact.

00:56:17.720 Yeah.

00:56:17.920 It was having an impact.

00:56:19.400 And that's why Trump is bitching about it on Truth Social last night.

00:56:23.060 And yeah, and he said himself, he saw the ad.

00:56:27.080 And while, you know, he disagrees, like he doesn't disagree with that.

00:56:30.680 If I were Canada, I would be running that ad too.

00:56:33.360 He didn't have a problem with it until something changed.

00:56:35.880 And Warren, I think you're probably right that it was working and that the tide was turning.

00:56:40.900 And so he had to get, he had to get, he had to change the focus of the story to Canada's

00:56:45.940 a bunch of liars and cheaters.

00:56:46.920 And now we're, now we're trying to affect the Supreme Court.

00:56:50.040 Okay.

00:56:50.880 It's just, it is what it is.

00:56:52.940 But his unpredictability, Mike is, is you say that is his predictability, but I just,

00:56:59.580 I don't know, I don't know what Mark Carney, I'm, I didn't used to feel sorry for Mark

00:57:03.640 Carney because he said he wanted this job.

00:57:05.280 Now I feel sorry for him.

00:57:09.200 Yeah.

00:57:09.580 Listen, I mean, look, this is, it's, it's very difficult when, when, when you're dealing

00:57:15.240 with somebody across the table, who's behaving this way and you never know what you're going

00:57:19.500 to get.

00:57:19.760 And I, I, like I've obviously have said, and others have said, you know, listen to what

00:57:24.440 he says, give it 72 hours and then see what he's done.

00:57:27.360 And which is basically what Warren has said.

00:57:30.420 Let's see whether or not his words or his actions, you know, line up and, and give it,

00:57:35.800 give it 72 hours.

00:57:36.640 He's going to be probably onto something else.

00:57:38.560 All right.

00:57:38.700 Well, listen, we only have a few seconds left.

00:57:40.320 So I'm just going to ask, where are we watching the game from gentlemen?

00:57:46.020 Well, I'm, I'm up at the cabin tonight with my dogs and I've got to figure out how to watch

00:57:52.620 it online because I don't have TV up there.

00:57:55.080 So I got to stream it.

00:57:56.140 That's what I'm doing.

00:57:57.840 Yeah.

00:57:58.120 And I happen to also to be up North.

00:58:00.340 Fortunately, we've got a cable.

00:58:02.620 So I'm likely going to be watching it from here, unless I get a call from a good friend

00:58:07.320 who wants to invite me to the game.

00:58:09.260 Well, I, I would pick up that call as well.

00:58:12.280 And I will just say the weirdest is people watching outdoors, like watch parties when the

00:58:17.840 people who have tickets to the game are watching indoors.

00:58:20.660 Go Jays.

00:58:21.180 Go.

00:58:21.460 Thank you, gentlemen.

00:58:22.120 Well, enjoy the weekend.

00:58:26.840 I saw a video of some working dogs, each so happy to do what it does.

00:58:51.900 Mighty flirt, chasing herds, four-wheeler rides.

00:58:56.040 Riding sheep, smile wide, deep sleep for life.

00:59:01.040 But mankind, he's got no sense of purpose.

00:59:05.200 But mankind, it's all co-authenties and Parkinson's.

00:59:14.340 Picture being built for one thing.

00:59:23.340 And when that thing is done, you feel free.

00:59:29.100 Exhibition, demolition, heavy timber frame.

00:59:32.760 Machine shop, didn't shop.

00:59:34.920 Perfect machine.

00:59:36.340 Mankind, but mankind, he's busy drilling holes in it.

00:59:53.480 And in time, we can't confirm that there's no plan.

00:59:58.340 He's left to guess from birth and every turn until the shop stopped at the end.

01:00:11.560 He's made to crash the walls, and then he's called the nothing to be dead.

01:00:18.860 Terriers, live to kill rats.

01:00:40.640 Retrievers, carry birds and reeds.

01:00:43.920 But there's no reason for you till he's been.

01:00:47.840 No hardwired noise.

01:00:51.700 Just a couple of slips, spit it in your head.

01:01:03.700 It sure is great to have you here on this Thursday.

01:01:06.960 Here we go, edging closer to the weekend.

01:01:08.840 And it's going to be a really fun weekend.

01:01:10.140 Lots to do, of course, because we start our playoff action,

01:01:12.360 in the official playoff action, Friday, 8 o'clock.

01:01:16.480 All right, let's get into some of the conversations that we need to have.

01:01:19.340 Certainly, they'll be watching too.

01:01:21.220 Anthony Fury, long-time newspaper columnist and Toronto mayoral candidate.

01:01:26.700 And I'll ask you a question in a second, Anthony.

01:01:28.920 Of course, Warren Kinsella, former special advisor to Jean Chrétien

01:01:32.180 and CEO of the Daisy Group.

01:01:34.140 Both of you, good to have you.

01:01:36.040 Hey, come in.

01:01:37.740 Anthony, I should ask, when are you going to decide

01:01:39.660 if you're going to become a mayoral candidate again?

01:01:42.480 Or are you?

01:01:43.160 Or have you decided?

01:01:43.980 I have to ask now every time.

01:01:46.660 No, thank you.

01:01:47.940 The election will be in over a year from now.

01:01:50.400 And later on, it's in the spring where registration's open.

01:01:54.180 So, you know, I love the city.

01:01:55.340 And I love talking about municipal issues.

01:01:57.720 And I loved running last time.

01:01:59.680 Yeah.

01:01:59.960 Well, no question about it.

01:02:01.380 We'll see what happens.

01:02:02.640 Still got a year away.

01:02:03.360 But already we talk about that.

01:02:05.420 Let's talk about something that, again,

01:02:06.980 was billed as a national address to Canadians.

01:02:10.620 You know, so here we all pulled up to our TV sets.

01:02:13.460 And normally when I think of a national address,

01:02:16.260 I think of a crisis.

01:02:17.500 I think of some kind of national issue

01:02:20.160 that affects and impacts Canadians,

01:02:22.180 like maybe a terror attack.

01:02:24.000 But this was not that.

01:02:25.380 And I felt like it was a campaign stop

01:02:28.060 in Ottawa in front of a bunch of students.

01:02:31.240 Nonetheless, Mark Carney delivered a half an hour speech.

01:02:35.600 And I think the one takeaway for me

01:02:38.640 kind of stuck out would have been this.

01:02:41.040 Take a listen.

01:02:41.880 I will always be straight

01:02:43.300 about the challenges that we face

01:02:45.300 and the choices that we must make.

01:02:49.840 And to be clear,

01:02:51.380 we won't transform our economy easily

01:02:54.700 or in a few months.

01:02:57.360 It will take some sacrifices.

01:02:59.880 And it will take some time.

01:03:03.520 All right.

01:03:04.040 So let me kick this off with you, Warren,

01:03:05.640 given your background.

01:03:06.600 And you've dealt with prime ministers, certainly.

01:03:08.640 And first of all,

01:03:10.320 was that half an hour necessary?

01:03:12.700 Was it, you know, sold as it was?

01:03:15.880 How did you view it?

01:03:16.860 And did you learn anything?

01:03:18.720 No, he could have done it in an email.

01:03:20.360 No, it was over 3,000 words.

01:03:24.320 So it's a half an hour, as you pointed out.

01:03:26.140 It's way too long.

01:03:27.700 So that strongly suggests to me,

01:03:29.940 you know, and I've written speeches for prime ministers.

01:03:32.180 So I'm familiar with the problem.

01:03:35.280 I think there probably was a draft

01:03:37.120 and he got his hands on it.

01:03:38.540 Instead, it started adding to it stuff like catalyze.

01:03:42.020 You can always tell when Mark Carney

01:03:43.380 has got his hands on a speech,

01:03:45.140 when that word shows up,

01:03:46.680 with the British spelling, by the way,

01:03:48.240 not the Canadian spelling.

01:03:49.620 Well, there's also hinge.

01:03:51.300 Yeah, and hinged.

01:03:52.300 Yeah, our future is hinged.

01:03:53.700 There's lots of hinging in there.

01:03:55.560 So, but the problem is, you know,

01:03:57.740 we still don't know, guys, who Mark Carney is.

01:04:01.080 Like, is he the guy we saw during the election campaign

01:04:04.200 who was forthright and direct and elbows up

01:04:06.400 and I'm going to get tough

01:04:07.820 and I'm going to get trade deals?

01:04:09.100 Or is he the guy we've seen since

01:04:11.180 who's actually, you know, chasing people like Doug Ford

01:04:14.420 for having their elbows up

01:04:15.840 and for wanting to get tougher with the United States

01:04:18.580 and push Canadian resources to new markets?

01:04:22.560 So, like, I just don't know which Mark Carney

01:04:25.060 we're going to get in that budget in two weeks' time.

01:04:27.980 And that's a dangerous proposition for him

01:04:30.140 because, you know, he's only been on the job for seven months.

01:04:33.000 Canadians are still trying him on

01:04:34.600 and he needs to make clear that what he's going to get.

01:04:37.780 Is he the guy who's going along with Trump

01:04:39.460 or is he the guy who's going to be pushing back?

01:04:42.100 Well, again, there were a lot of regurgitated talking points

01:04:45.460 that we've already heard, Anthony.

01:04:46.820 So, I don't think anyone learned much.

01:04:49.240 I mean, the takeaway I get from what we just played is,

01:04:52.280 you know, the crap is about to hit the fan

01:04:54.200 because otherwise what that occasion should have been is,

01:04:57.660 oh, by the way, we don't have a deal

01:04:59.540 or we do have a deal.

01:05:00.800 Like, give us, what are you telling us?

01:05:03.560 So, I don't think anyone left there knowing,

01:05:05.540 okay, I guess we're up Craps Creek.

01:05:08.800 But the other thing is, you know,

01:05:09.820 4,200 workers lost their jobs this week.

01:05:13.420 And so, when you're talking about sacrifice

01:05:15.080 to everyday Canadians who really feel,

01:05:16.940 I think for the last decade,

01:05:17.980 there's been a lot of sacrifice,

01:05:19.920 at least acknowledge them, right?

01:05:22.020 That wasn't even a thing last night.

01:05:25.380 Right.

01:05:25.860 And he wants to talk about a long-term,

01:05:28.500 forward-looking vision.

01:05:29.760 He wants to have a bit more of a philosophy session.

01:05:31.900 And it seems that that was the point of that 3,000 words.

01:05:35.380 And to Warren's point,

01:05:36.120 if he wanted to communicate to us about politics of the day,

01:05:38.680 I think there would have been much more effective ways to do that.

01:05:41.740 And I think Warren nailed it in terms of

01:05:43.360 who are we going to get here?

01:05:45.160 I mean, I'm not even sure where Mark Carney sits

01:05:47.620 on the political spectrum.

01:05:48.900 Is he a left-leaning person?

01:05:50.180 Is he a conservative?

01:05:51.320 I mean, I don't really know.

01:05:52.480 And we follow this guy for a living.

01:05:54.780 Well, today's liberals will be anything you want them to be,

01:05:57.000 as long as they get elected.

01:05:58.720 Well, I think what we're going to see here is idealism,

01:06:01.640 meet realism.

01:06:02.520 You know, how does reality play here for Carney

01:06:06.340 in terms of legislation, in terms of decisions?

01:06:09.400 How are things going to happen?

01:06:10.820 He seems to want to be able to move much more like a CEO

01:06:14.020 or a chairman with very direct and immediate action.

01:06:17.700 I think he tried to deal with the Canada Post,

01:06:19.700 strike the previous one.

01:06:21.640 I know we're at multiple chapters of it this calendar year,

01:06:23.900 but the previous one, he tried to deal with it that way.

01:06:27.080 We're going to see whether he can move quickly.

01:06:29.100 I hear from the business community that they describe it as cautiously optimistic.

01:06:33.240 They're looking forward to the budget,

01:06:34.900 and they think there are going to be things that help fire up the economy.

01:06:39.120 But again, we want to see the results and how they actually play out.

01:06:42.620 The reality is, you know, he is going away for nine days.

01:06:46.580 Warren, you know this, there's a budget coming out on the 4th.

01:06:49.220 I think this is one way of softening things like we have to invest.

01:06:52.600 We've got to invest more, which is a word of saying we're going to spend more

01:06:55.620 when we've already spent a lot, billions beyond what we have.

01:06:59.620 So he's trying to butter up the crowd.

01:07:02.840 Hopefully, maybe it'll soften them up to accept this, quote-unquote, investment.

01:07:06.800 Did he do that?

01:07:08.180 And then again, we could fall into an election.

01:07:10.140 And I think they want to be able to say, well, you know,

01:07:12.240 we said we'd have to invest, and these opposition parties just don't want to invest.

01:07:16.520 Well, the one thing on the election thing,

01:07:18.100 I know a lot of people are wondering if that's going to happen,

01:07:20.480 and Steve McKinnon, who's their house leader,

01:07:22.400 has been playing games with that and having some fun with the press gallery.

01:07:25.700 But we're not going to have an election.

01:07:27.120 The NDP doesn't have a leader.

01:07:28.980 The Tories are fighting in public again.

01:07:31.260 So he's got a majority in all but names.

01:07:33.760 So that's not going to happen.

01:07:35.280 But we do have problems as a country, and not just Donald Trump and terrorists.

01:07:39.700 We've got lots of problems that need to be addressed.

01:07:42.520 And he had promised, you know, he was the guy who stood up and said,

01:07:45.420 I'm used to dealing with big things.

01:07:47.160 I'm the guy who's used to dealing with complex problems.

01:07:50.820 And it's like, okay, you're hired.

01:07:52.780 Deal with them.

01:07:53.980 And that has not happened.

01:07:55.440 So my concern now is that we're going to get the last Mark Carney,

01:08:00.860 not the one that we hired, which was the Mark Carney who was a shadow advisor

01:08:04.760 to Justin Trio, presided over the biggest explosion in national debt

01:08:08.840 and deficit in a country's history.

01:08:10.880 I'm worried that we're going to get that guy.

01:08:12.680 Because if you read his speech, and anybody who's having problems sleeping

01:08:16.300 should do so, you cannot figure out, is he for immigration?

01:08:21.280 Is he against immigration?

01:08:22.640 Is he for deficits?

01:08:24.060 Is he against deficits?

01:08:25.460 Like, he's all over the map.

01:08:27.440 And like, when you're in the pre-budget period, and I've gone through a few of these when I

01:08:31.020 worked in Ottawa on the Hill, you've got to be really clear about where you're taking

01:08:35.200 the country, because everybody's paying attention.

01:08:37.780 And he just wasn't clear on Wednesday night.

01:08:39.860 He wasn't clear, Anthony.

01:08:41.760 And therefore, whatever happens on November 4th, look, there's going to be a decision to make.

01:08:46.540 Either all the opposition parties fall in line and sign off on whatever's being presented,

01:08:51.480 right?

01:08:51.780 Because no one wants to go to an election.

01:08:54.320 Having said that, this guy was sold as the banker.

01:08:57.140 This is the guy who had two governor banking jobs and run economies.

01:09:01.900 He's dealt with the most important people in the world.

01:09:04.180 He made dates for himself that he would deliver.

01:09:07.520 Certain things hasn't happened.

01:09:09.900 But you know what?

01:09:10.920 What happens on the 4th is anyone's guess.

01:09:13.920 And so how do you see the selling of all these investments going over?

01:09:18.220 Well, I also wonder, what is he trying to sell in terms of how he views the job?

01:09:24.760 Now, he's obviously been very close to prime ministers through his career.

01:09:27.740 And being the leader of a G7 nation was apparently on his bucket list.

01:09:31.360 And now he's ticking that off.

01:09:32.760 But I wonder if he's going to have some regrets as to mistaking what the job actually was.

01:09:40.620 He does seem to like to be in the influential sort of international jet set.

01:09:44.620 I know there was a mini media purer over media that brought along on a plane to one of the

01:09:50.800 trips to the Middle East with Carney.

01:09:52.220 And nobody likes media inside baseball stories.

01:09:54.920 But I think what was more happening was going to say, quick, I got to get there in the room

01:09:58.260 because Stephen Schwartzman, who's the head of Blackstone, which is like the biggest private

01:10:02.760 equity fund in the world, Schwartzman has played a big role in negotiating a lot of

01:10:08.020 international foreign affairs issues.

01:10:10.120 I know Carney kind of sees himself in that category.

01:10:12.460 But then he's finding when you're prime minister of Canada, you don't have the ability to do

01:10:17.300 those things that the guy who's not even head of a nation is doing.

01:10:20.680 So I think there's some frustration for him right now as he figures out what what is the

01:10:25.440 job even?

01:10:27.260 Yeah.

01:10:27.560 Well, again, buckle up.

01:10:29.160 I think these headlines we saw this week are just the beginning.

01:10:32.900 And I pray I'm wrong, but I just think we're heading into a real dark time.

01:10:37.240 And I hope all of them have a plan.

01:10:42.460 Break into my car, leaving all your useless thoughts.

01:11:03.300 Knife through the door, reminder of the rich.

01:11:07.760 Try to make me sure, if I don't, you'll push me off.

01:11:11.900 Try my best to make it end up there.

01:11:16.060 Things you'll never remember, I'll never get to forget.

01:11:24.020 Things you'll never remember, I'll live through again and again and again.

01:11:32.340 Say the worst thing that you can.

01:11:39.800 Again.

01:11:44.020 Again and again and again.

01:11:47.640 Oh, God owes me a check.

01:11:48.960 Do you feel better now, leaving it all with me?

01:11:54.280 Leave me burning down, reminder of defeat.

01:11:58.420 Successfully murdered all of my goddamn peace.

01:12:03.420 Now we both have this disease.

01:12:06.800 Think you'll never remember, I'll never get to forget.

01:12:12.700 Think you'll never remember, I'll live through again and again and again.

01:12:23.160 Say the worst thing that comes to mind.

01:12:27.220 Does it feel better to be so kind?

01:12:31.600 Don't know why I was left outside.

01:12:35.700 God, I'll be mine.

01:12:37.600 God, I'm fourth thing, I'll kill you again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and solid and again and again and again and again.

01:12:52.600 I don't know how we survived Too close, not close enough

01:13:00.200 I want to feel it Please don't hit me soft

01:13:04.460 Don't know I was left outside God, ask me money, I'll get it in time

01:13:12.800 Things you'll never remember I'll never begin to forget

01:13:18.740 Things you'll never remember I'll live through again and again and again

01:13:29.200 Say the worst thing that comes to mind Does it feel better to be so kind?

01:13:37.640 Don't know I was left outside God, I'll be mine, I'll get it in time

01:13:46.020 Take this bottle before I wallow in this bitch

01:13:48.760 I'll admit I know I'm addicted to getting lit

01:13:52.120 Addicted to getting lit

01:13:53.800 Addicted to getting lit

kinsellacast - October 26, 2025

KINSELLACAST 385： The ad that changed everything, plus the Jays! Lilley, Mulroney, Pierson, Furey plus The None, Drug Church, Militarie Gun, Nadine Shah, Lisa O'Neill

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript