KINSELLACAST 386： An October to remember with Lilley, Mulroney and more - plus Dazy, Spiritual Cramp and Sharon von Etten, Jawbreaker and Gillian Welch
00:13:55.380Well, sad and disappointed for the players because they really did work so hard.
00:14:01.640And, you know, beyond the players, I don't think anyone's as disappointed as Chloe, who faithfully wore her bandana for every game, except game two when I forgot to put it on her.
00:14:15.720But, look, we started as wildly underestimated to even make it to the World Series.
00:14:23.780And we took the repeat champions, Los Angeles Dodgers, to extra innings to the 11th inning of Game 7 of the World Series.
00:14:34.200No one can say we didn't belong there, but manager John Schneider was – my colleague Mark Daniel was in the post-game news conference with him.
00:14:47.320And he talked about how he was going to relive those bases-loaded moments for a long time.
00:18:40.680Schneider's a better manager than you and I will ever be, even though a year ago everyone wanted him fired.
00:18:45.900You know, there is strategy in sometimes going to a starter who's in the bullpen in the playoffs or going to the born and bred relievers because what they bring is just 100% heat all the time.
00:19:05.360Whereas if you put in a Chris Bassett, he's not going to be throwing as fast and as hard, but he's got more nuance to his game and he can go in and relieve for two or three innings.
00:19:15.660Well, my prediction is Trey Savage is probably – yes, Savage, not Trey Savage, I can mind his name as somebody else – is probably going to get a bit of a pay bump.
00:19:55.180So, Mark Kearney, there's no smooth transition I could make.
00:20:03.420I, as you know, I've just been in a rage.
00:20:05.880I supported Doug Ford's ad, quoting Ronald Reagan accurately.
00:20:12.460It was a truthful, fair, positive ad, in fact.
00:20:18.420And there's the Prime Minister of Canada on Friday, after bobbing and weaving, and you'll tell us all about that because you've got a front-page story about it,
00:20:26.880apologizing to Donald Trump for an ad that told the truth.
00:20:35.280See, you and I have a different reaction to this.
00:20:40.840When he had just apologized to Donald Trump, and we found out that from Trump, I thought, okay, it's one of those things where, yeah, you didn't do anything wrong,
00:20:52.640but, you know, to smooth over the relationship, you apologize.
00:20:57.180And I'm sure that no man has ever done that with his wife, no wife with their husband, you haven't just said, okay, you're absolutely fucking wrong, thinking in your head, you're absolutely fucking wrong,
00:21:11.620but I want this fight to go away, and I, you know, I want to smooth things over.
00:21:17.000I want to make things better between us.
00:21:18.920And we all do that in our personal lives, and that's how I took Kearney, apologizing to Trump.
00:21:23.780I was like, okay, not my favorite thing, but I can get it.
00:21:28.060But that's when we just heard from Trump on the plane.
00:21:31.400Didn't it throw Doug Ford under the bus?
00:21:34.800Well, you know, a little bit, but mildly.
00:21:37.740It was when Kearney was out in front of the reporters, and he explained why he apologized to Trump, and pretty much the way I described it is that.
00:21:46.000He said, well, the president was offended, and then he went into, and I wouldn't have run that ad.
00:21:50.680And then kudos to Mackenzie Gray from Global following up, and then Jody Trinh from CTV later, and they got him to talk more about it.
00:22:00.180Because the guy had been silent for a week, wouldn't even answer had he seen the ad.
00:22:06.040And then I'm at the scrum at, oh, no, I wasn't at that one.
00:22:22.800My guess is when Kearney dropped by Ford's house in Etobicoke on his way to an event a couple of weeks ago, Ford is like, hey, buddy, got to show you this.
00:22:49.640And then he goes on about how I'm solely responsible for foreign relations with the American president.
00:22:55.320My government is solely responsible for the relation between Canada and the United States.
00:23:01.420Okay, buddy, then, you know, if that's how you feel, and it's accurate, but, you know, you shouldn't have run the ad and you're solely responsible.
00:23:58.280And I'll point out that there were two election campaigns.
00:24:01.000And whether you like the result or not, two election campaigns earlier this year, Doug Ford won on saying he would stand up to Donald Trump.
00:24:16.120Which one of them is following up on their, on that election platform that got them elected?
00:24:24.420So whether you like them personally or not, whether you support their party, whether you support the ad, one of them is following through on what they promised to be electors.
00:24:33.800And the other one can't find his fucking elbows.
00:24:39.580I don't know if it's a chance for redemption, but I mean, the province, Ontario has got their fall economic statement, kind of a mini budget this week.
00:24:50.100But the bigger, the bigger reveal will be the federal budget that Frankie Bubbles, as you coined him, has got.
00:24:59.080And by the account of everybody, it is going to be a big, big deal, big budget, historic.
00:25:04.920I've talked to people in Ottawa, say it's consequential.
00:25:09.820It's a big Scrabble word, consequential.
00:25:14.860I'd love to get, I'd love to get, love to get consequential in Scrabble.
00:25:21.720You know, they had a thing that will not get as much attention as it should, and here's where I'll give them some credit.
00:25:27.500They had a big announcement on rare earth minerals, two billion worth of investment, not as big as I'd hoped.
00:25:34.920That seems to be the, you know, the thing with Mark Carney, and with a lot of women, after their first encounter with a man, not as big as I hoped.
00:25:44.340It just keeps coming back to, well, we could be going bigger, but there's something.
00:25:48.920He's doing something on rare earth minerals, and this was announced at a G7 minister's meeting here in Toronto this week.
00:26:26.080Because they know they've been part of these things.
00:26:28.240Some of these companies like Petronas and Sino Oil and things like that,
00:26:35.420they have been part of Canadian projects where millions and millions of dollars have been poured into them.
00:26:40.220And then it gets canceled, or it doesn't get approved, or, well, there's a new regulatory hurdle that you have to jump over to in order to get approval that wasn't there when you started.
00:27:00.020Also, we have free trade agreements with most of the region through the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and we've done nothing with them.
00:27:07.180We have free trade agreements with the European Union, and 10 out of 27 countries have not ratified it because they're annoyed with us at various things.
00:27:16.800Ireland, France, Italy, Greece, these countries that we're supposedly friendly with won't ratify the deal.
00:27:24.420We don't have a deal with Britain because we won't allow them to sell us the same amount of cheese that they were selling us when they were part of the European Union.
00:27:41.520So, you know, it's great for Carney to go around the world, but the rest of the world has skepticism about us because, as I've been pointing out,
00:27:50.720we are sometimes bad trading partners, or we're bad at regulatory.
00:27:56.280So, unless he does a major lift on the regulatory front, him announcing that the government is going to back specific projects won't matter a whole lot because it's still going to be difficult for those projects to go ahead.
00:28:09.920Well, in conclusion, there's one product they can export, and that is my new book, The Hidden Hand, which was announced.
00:34:48.080You are listening to the Ben Mulrooney Show. It would be very boring if it were just me for three straight hours, which is why we bring in far more interesting people than I. And today we've got two of the most interesting, Warren Kinsella and Chris Chapin. They're joining us.
00:35:06.080They're joining us as part of our This Week in Politics closing panel on Fridays. Guys, thanks so much for being here.
00:35:27.080Okay, Warren, I want to start with you. And before I get to the question, I'm going to give you a little bit of a preamble, which is that and I've told this story a couple times now that I was at the Friends of the Simon Wiesenthal Center Spirit of Hope Gala two nights ago, honoring allies of the Jewish community, seven people who have stood up for the Jewish community. One of those people being my brother. We were all very proud. My mom was there.
00:35:53.080My mom was there. Whole family was there. It was great. Van Jones and Scott Galloway were in conversation and that was there was a Blue Jays game going on. And to be honest, I was very glad to have been listening to those two gentlemen speak. However, I noticed the absence of Olivia Chow and I asked some of the people involved and they said, well, she wasn't invited. I said, well, why not? Because, well, this is an event for allies. Would you consider her an ally? I said, I guess not.
00:36:19.920And then without me asking, they said, and we didn't invite Mark Carney either. And because we don't consider him an ally either. And I thought that was very interesting. But then when I see that Mark Carney hasn't yet met with the families of victims killed by Hamas. And it's, you know, I, what do you think?
00:36:44.880I don't think anybody would ever view you as anything but the staunchest of allies.
00:36:48.980Yeah, but, you know, was it a well-organized event? Honestly, Ben, like, I don't think it was, to be blunt, because I've heard from a lot of people who were surprised that they didn't hear about it.
00:37:02.060Not inviting the prime minister and the mayor, notwithstanding what you feel about them, it's stupid. It's stupid. You know, they are people, whether they like it or not, have power and have influence. And I understand the hurt feelings and so on. And I'm a supporter of the Jewish community, like both of you guys are.
00:37:20.780But, you know, you have to reach out. Yitzhak Rabin had the most relevant line of all, former prime minister of Israel. Who do you make peace with but your enemy? Who do you make peace with but your enemy? So you have to reach out. You have to try and get as many friends as you can in different places. And not inviting them, I think it was dumb.
00:37:45.840And that's, and I'm not a fan of Olivia Chow, but I think it was a dumb move.
00:37:51.860Okay, fair enough. Now, but let's go to the story that Mark Carney hasn't met with the victims, the families of the victims yet. I was surprised to read that. And I'm not going to lie, a little disappointed.
00:38:02.680Yeah, well, that that's legitimate. In fact, Justin Trudeau and Mark Carney are the only G7 leaders who have not traveled to Israel to pay tribute to the victims of October 7th, not the government of Netanyahu, you know, not the, you know, the bureaucracy in Israel, just the people, the victims of which seven were Canadian.
00:38:28.020Trudeau didn't go to Israel, and Carney still hasn't either. Now Carney, when he was governor of the Bank of Canada, did go to Israel, but that was before October 7th. And all of us know, it's really important to go and show whether you like the Netanyahu government or not, to go and show solidarity.
00:38:47.020And that's why I think it's the criticism I make of the Simon Wiesenthal people, when I think they're dumb not to reach out to Carney and to Chow, is it gives those two people now an excuse not to do anything for them and say, well, look, they didn't even invite me. So what do you want me to do?
00:39:03.340So like, you've got to make peace with your enemy. And that cuts that applies to both sides.
00:39:09.260All right, well, we're going to go now to the starting third baseman for the Toronto Blue Jays, Chris Chapin. Chris, do you see things the same way as Warren?
00:39:17.020No, a little different. Like, I think, to your question about Mark Carney, not visiting with any of the families of the victims who were killed by Hamas in Israel, you know, completely unacceptable.
00:39:29.680To Justin Trudeau's credit, at least he did, before he stepped down from office as the right and appropriate thing to do for a prime minister.
00:39:37.180I'm not going to speak to the logistics of the, you know, the Spirit of Hope gala.
00:39:40.600I think I can see it both ways on whether you, you know, how many times you're going to be fooled by inviting people who, you know, you know, the mayor specifically have just made up ridiculous excuses in the past for why she's chosen not to stand by the Jewish community in this city.
00:39:55.480You know, has made up scheduling errors or, you know, use the old I must have missed it in my inbox excuse to why she hasn't attended events in the past.
00:40:03.960So I think I can see it from both sides on, you know, in terms of the event, the logistics itself.
00:40:08.440But, you know, for Mark Carney to have chosen, I think it's a deliberate choice so far to not have chosen to meet with the families of the victims of these terrorist attacks by Hamas.
00:40:17.540And, you know, I was encouraged by the article to see that it sounds like his director of communications said the prime minister would be reaching out to these families shortly.
00:40:25.360But I think sometimes it's a little too late.
00:40:27.760And, you know, it certainly shouldn't be spurned on.
00:40:29.780Action should never be spurned on by a media request.
00:40:32.900Well, listen, it's not all bad news, you know, and he's got a lot of balls in the air.
00:40:36.460Some of them are bound to drop every now and then.
00:40:39.120One of them that seems to be stick handling pretty well.
00:40:42.400That's why I'm mixing my metaphors there.
00:40:58.640It's, you know, I don't want to give the Carney government too much credit so far because I think I've been left wanting more.
00:41:04.320I've been quite impressed by Minister Hodgson.
00:41:07.380I think he's clearly, you know, a top shelf cabinet minister for this government.
00:41:11.740Given his background and his relationship with the prime minister, I don't think that should come as any surprise.
00:41:16.240But the work he's done with his, you know, respective minister here in Ontario, Stephen Lecce,
00:41:20.920I think they've made terrific strides in the short period of time.
00:41:24.560It takes a lot of work and a lot of effort to undo so much of the bureaucracy that was keeping these critical minerals in the ground in this country.
00:41:32.400And I think both ministers deserve a heck of a lot of praise because it is a huge economic opportunity.
00:41:37.340We've been sitting on for decades in this province, just like we've been sitting on, you know,
00:41:42.620bountiful resources of oil and natural gas across this country.
00:41:46.700We should be a far, far, far richer country than we have been for far too long.
00:41:50.980And so I'll give Prime Minister Carney and his government the dues that I think they deserve on this for moving quickly.
00:41:57.660And I think the faster we can see these minerals and our natural resources exported, not just south of the border,
00:42:03.800I'd like to see it get back there, but to our allies in Europe, the better for them and the better for us.
00:42:09.700Warren, is it going to take a prime, shining example of developing one sector, one mine, one project,
00:42:17.760seeing one business, one industry take off and seeing the tax dollars flow from that into the coffers of the federal government,
00:42:26.080which they can then turn around and pay for all of their social services?
00:42:29.320Is it going to take an example like that for the for them to shoot the lock off and really allow us to the country to really responsibly develop our natural resources the way we should have been doing over the past 10 years?
00:42:42.760That's a great question. I mean, it shouldn't take that for that to happen.
00:42:48.280We should have the common sense to know.
00:42:50.280But, you know, I'm an Albertan who worked in the oil patch and I know, you know, when Alberta succeeds, when the oil patch succeeds, so does the country.
00:42:59.700So but I think all levels of government get this.
00:43:02.200Chris is a Tory and just gave credit to the Liberals.
00:43:04.500And I've been a Liberal and I'll give credit to the Tories.
00:43:07.120You know, Doug Ford has been running ads.
00:43:09.460Well, his Reagan ad isn't running anymore, but he's been running Ring of Fire ads during the World Series.
00:43:15.240All of us have seen them about 6,000 times.
00:43:17.540And the point he's making is the one you're making, which is we need success in this sector in extracting, you know, precious minerals and natural resources.
00:43:29.760Like we're a natural resources country.
00:43:32.020It's crazy for us to be leaving it in the ground.
00:43:51.180And I'll say the one thing that's always surprised me is, you know, for like the NDP, for example, where they are so hell bent on keeping all of these resources in the ground.
00:43:59.940But they have these dreams and designs on massive social spending projects that could be paid for if we extracted these resources responsibly.
00:44:09.900Like it's – they should be perfect bedfellows and yet they're not.
00:44:17.360And when we come back, more with Chris Chapin and Warren Kinsella right here on the Ben Mulroney Show.
00:44:28.720Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show.
00:44:30.960And gentlemen, I wanted to throw a curveball at you because there was a question that's been sticking in my craw all morning about this game of almost like narrative chicken,
00:44:41.100a blame game over if – if this budget that we've been waiting for for 18 months that is going to be tabled on November 4th for some reason,
00:44:51.620if it doesn't pass as a confidence motion, the government would fall and we would be in a Christmas election.
00:45:13.800I mean, Ben, it's just your standard minority government political game of chicken, to be bluntly honest.
00:45:21.600And we see this at every level of the government across the country that's had a minority parliament or a minority legislature.
00:45:28.560You know, to be honest, I don't think it matters.
00:45:31.780I think either party is thinking that they're going to get the upper hand in this right now.
00:45:35.780So, you know, notwithstanding the sweater I'm wearing, I think 16 million people tuned in to Games 1 and 2 of the World Series.
00:45:43.100If they think any Canadians paying any attention to what's happening in Ottawa over a game of chicken, over who might allow the budget to pass or not,
00:45:50.780I think they're, you know, as tone deaf as they typically are in the Ottawa bubble.
00:45:55.240So I think, you know, liberals are going to blame conservatives and conservatives are going to blame liberals.
00:46:00.820You know, conservative party supporters are going to blame the liberals and liberal party supporters are going to blame the conservatives.
00:46:39.240If my grandmother had, if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bus.
00:46:42.520Like, you know, and so let's say there is an election, like, you know, and then people will be talking about how grumpy they are for the first day, as they always do.
00:47:04.620This is proof positive that Ottawa is two square miles surrounded by reality.
00:47:09.520Like, you've got an NDP that does not have a leader.
00:47:12.680You've got a Conservative Party led by a guy who's really unpopular.
00:47:17.160You've got the Conservative Party overflowing with money and the polls saying that they would win a majority if there was an election.
00:47:25.760Like, in what universe does it make sense for the opposition to force an election?
00:47:30.820Like, they're, they're going to lose the election if they do do that.
00:47:34.080And it just makes no sense whatsoever.
00:47:36.540So, I think, you know, some, some dippers and some Tories are going to get diplomatic flu on the day it comes to vote for the budget and, and things keep on moving.
00:47:48.260I'm going to, I'm going to remember this.
00:47:49.740We're going to, we're going to, we're going to clip this and we're going to play it on, on whenever, whenever the vote comes.
00:47:54.280Um, okay, this, uh, the Cowichan, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, land claim, uh, issue out of British Columbia, uh, now, um, Quebec has picked up the ball and indigenous groups are asking for about $5 billion.
00:48:07.740Um, Warren, I was speaking with somebody who, who had me thinking about this in a, in a, in a new way, which is we're living in an era of reconciliation, but also decolonization.
00:48:18.780And those two concepts, uh, are designed to eat each other.
00:48:24.260Uh, one cannot exist in the presence of the other, uh, as, as goes the theory.
00:48:30.260Uh, and I gotta, I gotta ask, I think you were on the show.
00:48:32.820You told us a while ago that this wasn't the big deal that some people were making.
00:48:36.780And I mean, I hope I'm, I hope I'm remembering that correctly.
00:48:39.280Uh, but is it turning out to be a bigger deal now?
00:48:43.100Uh, regionally it is, you know, some places, you know, people who have 99 year leases.
00:48:47.980And finding, you know, that they've got a landlord, which isn't an indigenous band or first nation unhappy, but you know, my daughter is indigenous as you know, Ben, and you know, she has the best take on this at all.
00:49:00.400It's like, dad, you know, they do all these invocations and these, you know, uh, poetic statements at the start of every single event.
00:49:07.920Now we're standing on the land, uh, the Anishinaabe or the Ojibwe or the Cree or whatever.
00:49:13.660And she said, well, which is it like, is it, is it our land or not?
00:49:17.780If it's our land, give us fair market value.
00:49:21.880So I think you're right in the sense that white people, people like us are trying to have it both ways.
00:49:28.760Either we acknowledge that, you know, first nations have some kind of say in indigenous lands and indigenous real estate, frankly, or they don't.
00:49:43.640If they hire a smart lawyer and come after somebody and say, you owe us a lot of money, well, good on them because, you know, that's what everybody else does.
00:49:51.460And Chris, you know, when you're looking at it like that, it's, it's hard to fault the indigenous, um, stakeholders here because yeah, he's right.
00:49:59.200If there's an opportunity for them to benefit themselves, their, uh, their, uh, and their people, why wouldn't they take it?
00:50:06.240If, if we are, if we are going to, uh, create the, um, the, the framework for this sort of thing to happen, they would be, they would be stupid not to take advantage.
00:50:19.120You know, I, I might disagree with some of how we're handling this, but yeah, like, I mean, we had, you know, just what this past week, the national anthem, the controversy over, you know, changing the words in the national anthem during the baseball game about, you know, on native land.
00:50:32.640And then, you know, it's, it's absolutely something, why wouldn't you, if we're going to keep pretending to Warren's point, uh, and not pick a lane on whether, you know, it's, it's their land or our land or somewhere in between, why wouldn't you keep trying to, you know, claim and get a financial benefit out of it?
00:50:47.340Um, because we've shown time and time again, that we're unsure on what position we're going to take and the awards have followed.
00:51:27.120I think you have the right to be a terrible singer and butcher the, the sound that comes out of your mouth when you're singing the national.
00:52:32.400I, you know, I, I wish in my dreams, I still play shortstop for the blue Jays, Ben, but, uh, listen, 92, the Jays beat the Braves in six games, 93, they beat the Phillies in six games.
00:52:43.640So I'm, I'm hopeful that, uh, history repeats itself, that if the blue Jays are going to win a World Series.
00:52:51.260There's nothing I could possibly do to jinx it.
00:52:53.020Warren Kinsella, if Chris Chapin has that power to, to, to, to alter the, the, the fates of the blue Jays with a simple phrase, then my God, you're, he's not using his talents.
00:53:06.920Uh, but let's, I will end on, I'll end on this.
00:53:09.860It just, um, it's been such a wonderful feeling.
00:53:13.240Like we've got so much negative news out there for the, what the Jays have done across this country in bringing us together and, and, and putting this wonderful, joyous team together, winning games in exciting ways.
00:53:24.340And when they lose, they lose in exciting ways as well.
00:53:27.600Uh, I don't think any of us could have predicted this or expected it.
00:53:31.500I know we don't deserve it, uh, but we're enjoying it.
00:53:34.220Uh, and, uh, they're not a, I totally agree.