00:01:31.460So Martin Dixon and the other KinsellaCast fans who listen mainly for the music, you're going to have to figure it out and tell the rest of us what I played.
00:30:05.840welcome back to the ben mulroney show and from a conversation with david chilton to a conversation with two of my favorite guests here on the ben mulroney show it's friday which means it's time for the friday edition of this weekend
00:30:35.820politics please welcome warren kinsella and chris chapin as always guys welcome
00:30:41.820uh warren i want to start with you because this time last week we were talking about uh an event uh that i was at where uh olivia chow was not invited because it was a celebration of allies of the jewish community and you said it was a bad idea you talk to your enemies and then she went last weekend and declared that there had been a genocide in gaza and i personally believe it's one man's opinion that you can draw a line from
00:31:04.820draw a line from those words to the feeling of empowerment in the mob that decided to attack toronto metropolitan university students and i wonder what you make of that entire dynamic
00:31:16.820well i agree with you there is a causal connection between leadership and reality you know that's why the three of us have been involved with politics in our lives is we believe that there's a connection between how a leader conducts him or herself and the things that they do and the money that they spend the votes that they make there's a connection between that and what happens in the real world and in the case of chow
00:31:44.820and in the case of chow she advocated in front of the ncc cm which is the leading muslim organization in this country she advocated that jews commit mass murder
00:32:00.820and uh two days later there was a crystal knocked type attack at tmu and crystal knock for those who are unfamiliar with it and regrettably these days i think many people are
00:32:13.700uh just about 90 years ago this week this week uh there was a two-day program against jews that principally involved attacks on jews
00:32:24.340uh blood spilled uh blood spilled and glass shattered so crystal knocked shattering of glass
00:32:30.900and it's happening again like right here right in the wake of olivia chow's statements the reason why i favor
00:32:40.020inviting people like olivia chow to jewish events is to put her feet to the fire to challenge her to not let her get
00:32:49.460off the hook because by not inviting her she has an excuse to stay away yeah i favor sticking them right
00:32:58.500in the limelight yeah and challenging them and saying how dare you how dare you say that and look what
00:33:06.660happened next but instead they let her off the hook and i think that was a mistake chris chapin what sort of
00:33:12.820conversations do you think are happening at city hall what sort of conversations are happening about this very
00:33:18.420um this very conversation is very topic of a causal relationship between the mayor saying something
00:33:24.900that in my opinion not my opinion it's factually incorrect uh and and and and there arise in
00:33:31.580intention and violence um on the streets of toronto nothing ben yeah i honestly honestly i like have you seen
00:33:40.260any any semblance of or sign that that anything's changed at city hall i mean certainly not i saw that on
00:33:47.100november 15th in the city of toronto there's going to be a flag raising for these the flag of the state
00:33:52.040of palestine i saw that that oh and mr sag as well that's exactly it so i mean to answer your question
00:33:58.420nothing worse than nothing i guess you could argue like um it's the only thing i'd challenge warren i
00:34:04.960get where he's coming from completely on on having olivia there and putting her feet to the fire but
00:34:09.980she wasn't going to show up if you invited her anyway she's been invited to these events
00:34:13.940she's baked in her position uh and and sadly you know you're right it's why we all got involved in
00:34:20.300politics to some extent because we believe that leaders can and should lead us through i was
00:34:25.660drafted times i was drafted nobody told me nobody told me that i had to leave my nice house in
00:34:33.600montreal and i had to live in with the asbestos in 24 sussex that was not part of the bargain
00:34:39.320anyway i interrupted you you can go back there's i think there's some people that wouldn't mind if
00:34:44.860you know thank you maybe not to the asbestos built house hard pass you know i i think i think just
00:34:50.720that's the reality van is there's nothing there's no discussion going on there's the exact opposite
00:34:54.160going on at city hall and it's unfortunate um but there's you know there's a few vocal opponents
00:35:00.280at city hall uh but the truth is within that mayor's office i think there's absolutely no discussion
00:35:05.320about this whatsoever it's been rinse and repeat it's only been one side of the equation that we
00:35:10.220see these attacks in the city of toronto um and and you know there's frankly what frustrates me the
00:35:15.240most and is that there's no accountability there never seems to be any sort of accountability uh from
00:35:21.280the nccm like there's you know they're quick to the draw to criticize any any case of islamophobia
00:35:26.480but when it comes to anti-semitic behavior and attacks like this it just seems to be radio silence
00:35:31.480from them but what would you expect when it's radio silence from the mayor's office yeah all
00:35:36.360right in this next question i kind of want to do something a little different i want to put you i
00:35:39.620want you guys to do the talking to each other here because you know we've got two people who know who
00:35:44.660understand how a caucus works you understand the dynamics of it far more than i uh and what i the
00:35:51.560fact that we're barely even talking about the budget right now because the drama around floor
00:35:56.500crossing and people abandoning the the conservative party um is sort of dominating headlines and on one
00:36:02.740side you've got people saying uh there are more floor crossers to come on others on the other side
00:36:07.160you have people saying nothing to see here i'll i'll start with you chris uh from your vantage point
00:36:13.660um what's what's the state of play today in ottawa uh i mean it's it's about as perfect as it could
00:36:22.980be for the prime minister um we're we're not talking about what i think was a fairly underwhelming
00:36:28.040budget you know i i had high hopes uh when you throw out the term generational and and after
00:36:33.460everything we've been through over the last i mean i guess it's november so at least the last 10 months
00:36:37.640of this year since president trump took office i had high expectations perhaps they weren't in a
00:36:42.180position to bring forward a generational budget because of the lack of uh certainty from south of the
00:36:46.740border but the truth is if i'm mark carney i'm feeling pretty good right now that uh what they do best
00:36:51.840what the liberal party in ottawa does best is you know a shell game and and we're talking about
00:36:56.980chris d'entremont crossing the floor we're talking about matt generu's resignation uh we're not talking
00:37:01.840about what i think once again should be the fair and open criticisms of what the liberal government's
00:37:05.840done uh and and planning for this country i i feel no less certain uh about the direction our
00:37:11.700country's headed in but i i know all the talking heads in ottawa and here here we are talking about
00:37:15.920this today uh because it is what's interesting and and it's because you know can can the carney
00:37:20.980liberals avoid the speculation we've talked about the last couple weeks on this show about going to
00:37:25.620perhaps an election this fall or early next year for him to get a majority government or has he
00:37:30.380managed to do it behind closed doors uh you know outside the caucus rooms and get a couple people
00:37:35.920to cross the floor and get him those extra key two or three votes he desperately needed to have a
00:37:41.080de facto majority government it looks like he's quite possibly on his way you know the chris d'entremont
00:37:46.200from nova scotia crossing the floor gets him one seat closer matt generu you know claims to you know
00:37:52.940that he's going to continue to vote with the conservative caucus though he's not sitting with
00:37:56.260the conservative caucus yeah and he's going to resign his seat in the spring i mean there's a whole lot
00:37:59.900of question marks over that resignation but yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna cut you off because i want i want
00:38:03.780warren to come in warren when you when you hear all everything from yesterday some of its bluster some
00:38:08.600of its smoke and mirrors some of it might be the unfiltered truth what what what does your brain tell you
00:38:15.340what do your instincts tell you about what actually was going on over the past few days
00:38:18.400well you know as a citizen as a voter i don't like it you know uh i know the all of us know
00:38:26.060the main reason people vote for a particular mp is because of party affiliation that's what matters
00:38:32.340the most that's why people work so hard to get a party nomination and so you know i think if you run
00:38:38.600as a tory and you decide to become a liberal you should submit yourself to the people so they can
00:38:44.300decide whether they agree with you or not and that that's the case for don't tremont that's the case
00:38:48.820for leona alsalev who went from the the liberals to the tories at win and went from the greens to
00:38:55.280liberals like i understand you know i've worked with caucuses i've worked for a prime minister
00:39:00.560uh everybody's looking to make these acquisitions um because they make your life easier certainly
00:39:06.660mark carney's life is easier this morning than it was you know 72 hours ago but it i don't think
00:39:12.660it's right you know i think that um those people should have the guts to submit themselves to the
00:39:18.380people and say um do you approve of what i did yeah and if they say it's okay well then that it's
00:39:24.220okay but my suspicion is um you know in a couple of these cases they're not going to be cool with it
00:39:30.080no i i just you know listen i i don't know what was in um don tremont's heart i don't know what was
00:39:36.920in his mind but when he walked into that first caucus meeting in front of people that he had
00:39:41.980gone into to war against and they were cheering him like the conquering hero it i felt so uncomfortable
00:39:49.080watching it for him that i couldn't make sense of it for myself anyway lots more to talk about after
00:39:54.500the break uh with a warren and chris including no pipelines ever in bc apparently uh we'll try to
00:40:00.740make that make sense welcome back to the ben mulroney show welcome back to this week in politics with
00:40:11.780warren and chris and before we move on to another topic let's finish up with what's the drama that's
00:40:16.720been happening in ottawa warren uh based on everything that you've seen are do you do you believe the
00:40:23.120rumors that there is some sort of palace coup or some some sort of push against pierre poliev going on
00:40:29.760right now uh palace coup internally no but external events are definitely conspiring against him
00:40:37.760like he's in some trouble he's losing caucus members at a time when he needs them to be railing against
00:40:45.340the budget so instead of the focus on the budget which in the view of a lot of people was a bit of
00:40:50.580a wet firecracker um you know they're talking we here we are we're talking about this the the numbers
00:40:57.060and the intrigue and the cloak and dagger stuff going back and forth so it's not helpful to him
00:41:03.040is it fatal to him in the review i don't know at the end of the day i think it's like the the movie
00:41:08.960gladiator you know i picture joaquin phoenix there with his thumb up or thumb down but uh in that case
00:41:15.460it's stephen harper stephen harper is the guy who's going to decide whether pierre poliev lives or dies
00:41:21.160and whether the conservative party moves on and uh i guess the jury's still out he's still backing
00:41:26.960poliev but he can't be impressed by all of the the nonsense that's been going on uh chris i see bob
00:41:34.000bob in your head yeah listen i i think you know ultimately ben it's going to come down to what
00:41:40.780happens in january i think i think we'd be fooling ourselves if we didn't just accept the fact that
00:41:46.100when pierre poliev won this the leadership three years ago there were members of that party that did not
00:41:50.640like him there were members of that caucus that did not support him and so seeing somebody cross
00:41:55.220the floor for a mark carney led government that unquestionably has certainly leaned center right
00:42:01.280compared to where justin trudeau was i'm not surprised he might be able to pick off one or two
00:42:05.660ottawa is obviously buzzing that there might be two or three more that might cross the floor but
00:42:10.060i think it's going to come down to that leadership review for pierre in january and and unless something
00:42:15.180drastically changes from now until then you got to remember this guy sold you know more memberships in the
00:42:20.440leadership race a couple years ago than than the party's ever sold in the history of the party he
00:42:25.120has a iron grip on the base of the conservative party of canada and so him losing it i know i don't
00:42:30.080think so is is there some you know turmoil inside a caucus maybe a little bit but i think you know when
00:42:34.680it comes to the party in a palace coup it couldn't be farther from the case warren but i was in an event
00:42:39.080i was an event where ben ben very ably uh led an event for ben abrit canada last night and i was in
00:42:46.520the crowd and i'll tell you guys i had a whole bunch of people it was like i was the father confessor
00:42:52.000and they come up to me and say they were tories and they just wanted me to know that they voted
00:42:56.160for jean chariot and they think that jean chariot would have been a better pick i had a whole lot of
00:43:00.940people saying that so and in anybody defending pierre polyev's honor quite the opposite the
00:43:06.820people i'm hearing from the readers i'm hearing from the people getting in touch with me through
00:43:10.620post media are saying that they're not happy with the direction of the party because you know what
00:43:15.700chris says is true sure he sold a million memberships but that was a long time ago the
00:43:20.040reality now is he lost his own seat and he lost the election and that's what tories that i know are
00:43:25.040thinking about well one guy who didn't lose a whole lot of elections was your former boss
00:43:29.120jean chretien i wonder um if if he were around if he were in office today and he had a premier on
00:43:37.940the west coast that said uh i know that we said we're going to build projects of national importance
00:43:42.700but uh but the west coast is closed closed for business go go go sell crazy someplace else we're
00:43:48.780all stocked up here what would what would jean chretien do well he would sit down i can do my
00:43:53.980imitation of him but i probably shouldn't and he would say you know mr eby it's true
00:43:59.100under the constitution within your own province you're allowed to decide where pipelines go
00:44:05.200that's true but because it crosses a provincial border and because you know we need it as a
00:44:11.520country i get to decide that through something called the canada energy regulator and i think
00:44:18.580it's good for the country and i think we should do that um chretien is a pro pipelines prime minister
00:44:25.320he was certainly when i worked for him so yeah i think he would be saying to mr eby look um this is
00:44:32.000not a fight that you should be picking because you're not just picking this fight with alberti
00:44:35.500you're picking this fight with me we need it clearly we need it in light of the trump threat
00:44:40.760in light of what's happening to our economy nationally we need pipelines we we you know we're
00:44:46.600a resource country we shouldn't be leaving our resource in the ground and i think that's what