kinsellacast - November 23, 2025


KINSELLACAST 389: Welcome Caryma Sa'd! Plus Brian Lilley, Witch Post, Upchuck, Mandy Indiana and more!


Episode Stats

Length

58 minutes

Words per Minute

124.06885

Word Count

7,295

Sentence Count

320

Misogynist Sentences

8

Hate Speech Sentences

24


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 It's the Kinsella cast starring Warren Kinsella.
00:00:18.000 Hey, it's Warren. Welcome to the Kinsella cast and I've got exciting news.
00:00:22.180 We have a new regular, Kareem Assad, who many of you would be familiar with
00:00:27.080 because of the videos she shoots of protests and has been doing so for years.
00:00:33.080 And also her legal work and her mind is joining us as a regular.
00:00:37.860 So we're delighted that she is here and I think you will be too.
00:00:42.620 I've got Brian Lilly as well.
00:00:45.040 No discussion with Ben Maroney this week because I screwed up.
00:00:47.840 I totally lost track of time and I miss the show.
00:00:53.200 That's something I never do, so apologies to Ben Maroney.
00:00:58.120 But I've got Kareem Assad and Brian Lilly, so that's pretty good.
00:01:01.160 Also got some great music.
00:01:02.940 At the back end, I've got Mandy and Deanna, who are kind of English and French.
00:01:09.680 It's noise rock, I guess, if you've got a pigeonhole or something.
00:01:14.620 And they're somewhere between Manchester and Berlin.
00:01:17.820 Anyway, hard to pin down and that makes them even more interesting.
00:01:21.200 It's kind of dance stuff with lots of weirdness.
00:01:25.800 And as you guys know, I love public image, early public image, and lyres and bands like that.
00:01:32.260 So they fit.
00:01:34.600 They fit.
00:01:35.620 I've got Upchuck leading things off.
00:01:38.200 They're a punk band from Atlanta, Georgia, formed a few years ago.
00:01:44.080 And super energetic live.
00:01:46.240 This track I'm going to play for you is catchier than a drawer full of fish hooks and very focused on social issues.
00:01:53.440 They're against ICE and who isn't.
00:01:55.920 They've got African-American members, Latino members, a really good band.
00:02:00.920 Witch Post.
00:02:02.340 I've also got...
00:02:03.240 It's a weird union.
00:02:05.840 Scottish musician Dylan Fraser and an American musician, Alaska Reed.
00:02:10.460 And they met by happenstance.
00:02:13.500 They were both solo performers and discovered they had things in common.
00:02:18.840 So they put together this song, which again is super catchy.
00:02:22.060 And then Billie King and the Bad, Bad, Bad, I'm placing at the back end with Mandy, Indiana.
00:02:28.760 And they're kind of a surf rock from hell.
00:02:32.220 Really psychedelic, psychic, weird.
00:02:35.260 They're from Austin, where there's lots and lots of great music.
00:02:40.780 And just a great tune, great band.
00:02:44.900 So good show for you.
00:02:47.000 What I wanted to talk to you, though, about is something that was a big deal this week in parts of the country, in Calgary, in Toronto, Brampton, Mississauga, Ottawa, but flags.
00:03:01.780 A flag is never just a cloth.
00:03:05.520 It is a signal.
00:03:07.460 It's a symbol.
00:03:08.560 It's a statement.
00:03:09.260 And in a bunch of Canadian cities this week, the raising of the Palestinian flag sent a message that was louder than what those who were hoisting it probably intended.
00:03:23.120 In the States, Donald Trump has signed one of his executive orders directing his attorney general to vigorously prosecute, quote unquote, anybody who desecrates the American flag.
00:03:33.780 In Canada, it's not against the law to desecrate the flag.
00:03:37.700 But tradition dictates it's always supposed to be the highest flag on the pole, it's supposed to be respectfully disposed of, and so on.
00:03:45.400 Anyway, for most people, flags stand for something important.
00:03:48.840 If it's all white, surrender.
00:03:50.500 All black anarchy.
00:03:51.780 And the flag of the strip of land calling itself Palestine?
00:03:55.320 The answer to that question became important this week.
00:03:59.780 In Toronto, Calgary, Mississauga, Brampton, as I said, Palestinian flag was raised at city halls.
00:04:07.520 In some places, the mayor and the councillors showed up, like in Mississauga and Brampton.
00:04:11.920 In Toronto, she didn't.
00:04:14.540 In Toronto, a group called Tafsik brought an injunction against the raising of the Palestinian flag, and it lost in court, which is unfortunate, because that now sets a legal precedent.
00:04:26.000 That's the advice I always give to people.
00:04:29.600 Be careful about going to court, because if you lose, it creates a reality.
00:04:34.560 Anyway, why is that unfortunate?
00:04:36.340 There's a few reasons.
00:04:37.340 Like, well, firstly, globally, we're experiencing the biggest surge in anti-Semitism in nearly 100 years.
00:04:43.900 And in Canada, it's worse than just about anywhere else.
00:04:47.060 The Times of Israel reported just this week that anti-Semitism was already on the rise here in the years before the Hamas attack on October 7th, which left 1,200 people slaughtered and 250 taken hostage.
00:05:02.600 But hate crimes, the Times of Israel noted, have grown astronomically in Canada.
00:05:10.520 And they said Canadians experienced 6,300 nearly anti-Semitic incidents in 2024, an average of about 17 incidents of harassment, vandalism, and violence per day.
00:05:25.360 Think about that.
00:05:26.960 1,700 anti-Semitic incidents every single day.
00:05:32.680 Qualitatively, that makes Canada one of the worst places in the world for Jew hatred.
00:05:39.140 And in May, like an Israeli government ministry, even crowned Canada the global champion of anti-Semitism, quote-unquote.
00:05:47.980 So in these circumstances, at this time, displaying that flag, that symbol, can only serve to make Jewish Canadians feel even more uncomfortable and unwanted.
00:06:00.200 It is, after all, the flag of the government that slaughtered and raped hundreds of Jews on October 7th.
00:06:07.200 To most Jews, hoisting the Palestinian flag, now, at this time, renders the historical reality of October 7th impossible to ignore.
00:06:19.020 They see it as a specific rejection of them, Jews.
00:06:24.640 And that's not conjecture either.
00:06:26.740 At the Mississauga flag raising, the proponents chanted, Allahu Akbar.
00:06:31.660 Allah is most great.
00:06:33.260 And that's what Hamas chanted over and over on October 7th during their orgy of murder and rape and torture.
00:06:41.960 And you may think that's a coincidence, but you're probably not a Jew if that's what you think.
00:06:45.680 The flag raising, then, is wildly premature.
00:06:50.400 None of the conditions that Kearney set for recognizing a Palestinian state have been met.
00:06:55.400 Not one.
00:06:56.780 So why did those cities go ahead anyway?
00:06:59.180 Why is it so essential to raise that flag now?
00:07:02.500 The answer, at least in part, to make Jews feel uncomfortable and afraid.
00:07:09.020 To isolate and intimidate them.
00:07:11.700 To expose them, they believe, to contempt and hatred.
00:07:15.820 Now, I know some people regard that as a stretch.
00:07:18.280 They may think it's an overreaction.
00:07:20.140 But as in life, guys, as in law,
00:07:23.940 what matters most is how an act of cruelty is experienced by the victim.
00:07:29.560 The excuses and rationalizing of the wrongdoer don't matter so much, if at all.
00:07:35.500 Well, the Palestinian flag, in and of itself, isn't the flag of Nazi Germany.
00:07:41.980 I know that.
00:07:43.120 But the Nazi flag is actually a useful parallel.
00:07:46.160 In Canada, it isn't strictly illegal to fly a swastika in front of your home either.
00:07:51.000 It's a good way to invite a lot of trouble.
00:07:54.340 The swastika is frowned upon because it is a symbol that divides people.
00:07:59.360 It causes actual pain.
00:08:01.140 The same goes this week with the waving of the Palestinian flag.
00:08:05.820 It doesn't determine the outcome of the war in faraway Gaza.
00:08:09.820 But it sends an unmistakable message to Jews.
00:08:14.160 We are disinterested in your pain.
00:08:16.400 We are indifferent to your feelings of isolation.
00:08:19.320 Here, in the place that's supposed to be your home.
00:08:22.700 So, yeah, it's just a symbol.
00:08:25.400 It's just a bit of cloth and ink.
00:08:27.420 But it's a symbol that still divides us.
00:08:29.900 It's a symbol that wounds the victims of history, which is the Jewish people.
00:08:35.080 And raising it now is kicking them when they're down.
00:08:38.560 Take your time.
00:08:41.100 No, please, baby.
00:08:42.240 It's the last you get.
00:08:45.140 Just observing you don't look so good.
00:08:48.960 Is it the judge of just your own anguish?
00:08:54.500 It fucked my back.
00:08:56.420 I didn't need to answer so late.
00:09:00.740 I was busy with the campaign.
00:09:04.760 I forgot about the time.
00:09:07.280 I was busy with the all these games and stuff.
00:09:15.920 I haven't done half of them.
00:09:17.700 I feel like I'm a kid.
00:09:20.540 I'm glad I'm glad to be.
00:09:22.380 I know
00:09:26.680 I know you think you're better on your own
00:09:31.860 Smooth whacker, big talker in the city
00:09:35.640 But don't forget who helped you get that road
00:09:39.800 You tough high school
00:09:43.480 You can't have a bunch of money
00:09:46.520 You can't have a bunch of money
00:09:50.520 You can't have a bunch of souls
00:09:54.360 But she is your late
00:09:59.480 Ain't she glad it's just your home
00:10:02.140 Ain't she glad it's not in your case
00:10:06.780 Ain't she glad to be home
00:10:20.520 Ain't she my love
00:10:34.400 Need somebody tryna spite my cut
00:10:38.360 Thought you liked it, man, you're full of shit
00:10:42.480 They might need to be alone
00:10:46.320 She is your late
00:10:51.440 Ain't she glad it's just your home
00:10:54.100 Ain't she glad he's not in your case
00:10:58.320 Ain't she glad to be home
00:11:02.160 Ain't she glad to be home
00:11:04.160 Ain't she glad it's just your home
00:11:09.780 Ain't she glad it's not in your case
00:11:14.240 Ain't she glad to be home
00:11:18.160 And we're back
00:11:22.500 And we're back with a new voice
00:11:25.800 Well, she's not new to me
00:11:27.140 I have known her for some time
00:11:30.620 And I've admired her from a distance for some time
00:11:35.340 And she's a lawyer
00:11:37.840 She is a writer
00:11:39.980 She is, I would say, she's a documentary filmmaker
00:11:44.680 She documents society
00:11:47.320 And is just a fascinating
00:11:50.820 Really fair-minded person
00:11:54.260 And so she's going to be joining the Kinsella cast
00:11:59.260 Hopefully on a regular basis
00:12:01.300 So I want to bid welcome to Karima
00:12:05.120 Karima, welcome
00:12:06.160 Hi, hi everyone
00:12:08.580 Thank you for having me
00:12:09.740 Now I want right off the top
00:12:12.020 So, how your name is pronounced
00:12:16.720 Your last name is pronounced, how?
00:12:20.880 Sad, just like the feeling
00:12:22.440 It is fitting at times
00:12:25.740 And in the, you have, I mean you're notable for so many reasons
00:12:31.380 But you've become notable because you document protests
00:12:36.040 We're going to talk about that in a minute
00:12:37.300 And, but your background, you're a Toronto gal
00:12:40.920 Are you not?
00:12:41.580 Are you, or GTA?
00:12:44.680 Born and raised in Mississauga
00:12:46.240 Then I went to school in Ottawa
00:12:47.680 And then I started my career in Toronto
00:12:49.920 And so tell me about your family
00:12:52.440 Big family, small family
00:12:53.960 I am the youngest of three
00:12:56.920 By a long shot
00:12:58.200 So I was a surprise baby
00:13:00.120 And, you know, a pretty, I would say typical upbringing
00:13:06.480 Although typical is relative
00:13:08.540 But I grew up in Mississauga
00:13:11.040 I went to French Immersion
00:13:12.720 And that's what took me to the University of Ottawa
00:13:17.520 And I really enjoyed the city
00:13:20.120 So I stayed there for law school
00:13:22.220 And then came to Toronto to work on Bay Street
00:13:27.060 For a little bit where I did my article
00:13:28.680 And then I set up my own law practice
00:13:32.080 Focusing on housing issues
00:13:35.040 Cannabis law
00:13:36.160 And it's really in the last five years or so
00:13:40.280 That I've embarked on this journey of
00:13:44.060 Documenting political movements
00:13:47.580 Sort of social, cultural events of significance
00:13:51.920 And it's been quite a ride
00:13:55.060 It sure has
00:13:56.260 Well, how, I mean, you know
00:13:57.980 Setting up your own legal practice
00:14:00.260 Is no small thing
00:14:01.660 It's a huge achievement
00:14:03.200 Especially in a competitive legal market
00:14:05.400 Like Toronto
00:14:06.400 But you've done that
00:14:08.020 You probably didn't have a lot of bandwidth
00:14:10.640 To do anything else
00:14:12.660 But you decided to get out your camera
00:14:16.580 You and your videographer
00:14:18.440 We can talk about him in a little bit
00:14:20.860 And document
00:14:22.400 Is it protests always?
00:14:24.920 Is it demonstrations?
00:14:27.940 Is it celebrate?
00:14:28.860 Like what kind of stuff
00:14:29.820 Drew you and your camera to them?
00:14:34.320 What was it that brought you into that world?
00:14:37.380 So it's a little bit all of the above
00:14:40.480 And, you know, I would say the entry point for me
00:14:45.160 Was during the pandemic
00:14:47.380 At the height of lockdowns
00:14:49.140 I was watching from my office
00:14:52.420 On a weekly basis
00:14:53.560 A group of people
00:14:56.380 Demonstrating against the lockdown mandates
00:15:00.200 And they had a police escort
00:15:02.040 And, you know, I wasn't really
00:15:04.140 Seeing too much about them on the news
00:15:07.380 So I became curious
00:15:09.660 That took me outside eventually
00:15:12.060 It got me talking to people
00:15:13.860 And I felt that it was
00:15:16.580 A moment in history to capture
00:15:19.660 And then, you know, since then
00:15:22.420 Everything from the Freedom Convoy
00:15:26.440 To all manner of protests
00:15:30.600 And demonstrations
00:15:31.400 In every setting you can imagine
00:15:33.500 Cultural events like festivals
00:15:37.140 Kind of wherever people are out
00:15:40.200 And expressing themselves
00:15:42.720 Engaging with sort of civic infrastructure
00:15:46.700 In some way
00:15:47.660 And kind of at the underlying all of this
00:15:51.920 Like I'm a huge professional wrestling fan
00:15:54.520 And kind of that was
00:15:56.740 Like this is what draws me
00:15:58.720 To the protest circuit
00:16:01.940 That scene
00:16:02.620 I feel that there's a lot of similarities
00:16:05.460 To professional wrestling
00:16:07.180 And kind of that's another area
00:16:10.460 Where I enjoy attending events
00:16:13.540 Getting out my camera
00:16:14.960 Kind of that's
00:16:16.560 It's all connected
00:16:18.160 In that thread I would say
00:16:21.240 And it sounds like
00:16:22.240 I mean that sounds like journalism
00:16:23.580 So do you
00:16:24.920 Do you get out
00:16:26.560 You know
00:16:27.400 Your device
00:16:28.320 Or is it
00:16:29.100 A big fancy camera
00:16:30.820 How did you
00:16:32.240 Start doing this
00:16:33.720 And how do you do it now
00:16:35.060 Has there been a change
00:16:36.000 Or you just
00:16:36.440 Kind of use your phone
00:16:37.700 When it's
00:16:38.220 When the spirit moves you
00:16:39.620 It's
00:16:41.640 100% of the time
00:16:42.780 It's been my phone
00:16:43.560 Just
00:16:44.400 A regular
00:16:45.860 Shmegular iPhone
00:16:46.920 And like that
00:16:49.860 That was
00:16:50.380 Useful
00:16:51.660 Kind of in
00:16:52.360 The initial context
00:16:54.020 Because
00:16:54.560 There was
00:16:56.060 Hostility
00:16:57.100 Toward
00:16:57.860 Kind of the big
00:16:59.380 Chunky
00:17:01.060 Cameras
00:17:02.000 That
00:17:02.400 Kind of legacy media
00:17:03.880 Was using
00:17:04.780 So
00:17:05.140 I
00:17:05.780 Kind of avoided
00:17:07.000 That hostility
00:17:08.180 And found that
00:17:09.060 There's a lot of flexibility
00:17:11.640 That comes with
00:17:12.960 Just using
00:17:14.100 A simple
00:17:15.700 I shouldn't say
00:17:16.900 Simple device
00:17:17.580 They're very
00:17:18.360 Kind of sophisticated
00:17:19.880 And
00:17:20.440 Good camera
00:17:21.800 And all of that
00:17:22.540 But it's
00:17:23.860 Nothing
00:17:24.200 No DSLR
00:17:27.240 Or anything
00:17:27.940 Like that
00:17:29.000 And
00:17:30.620 Kind of on the point
00:17:31.740 Of
00:17:31.980 Journalism
00:17:33.500 You know
00:17:34.800 Initially
00:17:35.220 I was
00:17:35.780 Reluctant to take
00:17:37.120 That
00:17:37.460 Label on
00:17:38.640 I was
00:17:39.880 Kind of just
00:17:40.680 Out
00:17:41.040 Taking videos
00:17:43.440 And having fun
00:17:44.580 And
00:17:44.960 Like it
00:17:45.960 But now
00:17:47.480 In retrospect
00:17:48.340 And certainly
00:17:50.000 More consciously
00:17:51.540 Over the past
00:17:53.220 Few years
00:17:53.880 I
00:17:54.940 That is what
00:17:55.840 I've been doing
00:17:56.400 And
00:17:57.380 So I've
00:17:58.460 Evolved
00:17:59.480 I think
00:18:00.040 In
00:18:00.500 The way
00:18:01.660 That I
00:18:02.140 Approach this
00:18:03.520 At the outset
00:18:05.180 I was
00:18:06.320 A bit more
00:18:07.660 I would say
00:18:09.240 Heavy-handed
00:18:09.880 In some of
00:18:10.840 My commentary
00:18:11.500 And
00:18:12.640 Sort of
00:18:13.480 Trying to
00:18:14.060 Simultaneously
00:18:15.100 Describe what
00:18:16.520 I was seeing
00:18:17.200 And weigh in
00:18:18.460 On the underlying
00:18:19.640 Issues
00:18:20.380 And
00:18:21.140 The difficulty
00:18:22.480 With
00:18:23.120 That
00:18:24.240 Like
00:18:24.520 And there's
00:18:24.880 A lot of
00:18:25.200 People who
00:18:25.600 Do that
00:18:25.980 And do it
00:18:26.420 Well
00:18:26.700 But for me
00:18:28.180 When I was
00:18:29.480 Looking at
00:18:30.180 The media
00:18:31.160 Landscape
00:18:31.780 And how
00:18:32.380 Polarized
00:18:33.580 Everything
00:18:34.020 Has become
00:18:35.080 I saw
00:18:36.440 That there
00:18:36.860 Was
00:18:37.240 Space
00:18:38.380 To
00:18:38.960 Really
00:18:40.100 Just let
00:18:40.740 People
00:18:41.220 Make up
00:18:42.320 Their own
00:18:42.720 Minds
00:18:43.300 About what
00:18:43.960 They're
00:18:44.200 Seeing
00:18:44.500 And so
00:18:45.980 I think
00:18:46.340 That that's
00:18:46.940 Where I've
00:18:47.800 Been able
00:18:48.220 To carve
00:18:49.480 Out a
00:18:50.100 Little bit
00:18:50.440 Of a
00:18:50.660 Niche
00:18:50.940 It's my
00:18:51.900 Experience
00:18:52.400 That the
00:18:52.760 Same
00:18:53.140 Video
00:18:54.080 Will often
00:18:54.680 Provoke
00:18:55.300 Totally
00:18:56.360 Opposite
00:18:56.980 Reactions
00:18:57.900 Depending on
00:18:58.800 Someone's
00:18:59.720 Vantage
00:19:00.100 Point
00:19:00.480 And you
00:19:01.380 Know they
00:19:01.720 Often will
00:19:02.640 Hash it
00:19:03.020 Out in
00:19:03.480 The comments
00:19:04.340 And you
00:19:05.260 Know sometimes
00:19:05.740 That discussion
00:19:06.280 Is productive
00:19:06.840 Other times
00:19:07.660 It devolves
00:19:08.760 Into name
00:19:09.220 Calling
00:19:09.560 And hard
00:19:10.860 To say
00:19:11.360 Sort of
00:19:11.820 Who's even
00:19:12.260 Real and
00:19:12.740 Who's a
00:19:13.020 Bot at
00:19:13.860 This point
00:19:14.380 In time
00:19:14.860 But that's
00:19:17.140 That's now
00:19:18.320 What I seek
00:19:19.260 To do
00:19:19.620 I seek
00:19:19.980 To kind
00:19:20.800 Provoke
00:19:21.420 Conversation
00:19:22.900 And to
00:19:23.740 The extent
00:19:24.180 That I'm
00:19:24.620 Offering
00:19:25.140 Commentary
00:19:26.380 It's really
00:19:27.500 About tactics
00:19:29.180 And the
00:19:30.880 Way that
00:19:31.560 Canadians
00:19:32.780 Or people
00:19:34.020 In Canada
00:19:34.660 Are responding
00:19:35.720 To domestic
00:19:37.620 And international
00:19:38.440 Political pressure
00:19:39.880 And how they're
00:19:41.020 Engaging with
00:19:41.880 Police and
00:19:43.140 Politicians and
00:19:44.440 Media and
00:19:45.740 Other
00:19:46.060 Institutions
00:19:47.340 The thing
00:19:48.120 That I
00:19:48.540 Was
00:19:49.200 Impressed
00:19:50.900 By and
00:19:51.320 Attracted
00:19:51.900 To and
00:19:52.520 You know
00:19:54.120 When I was
00:19:54.780 Watching her
00:19:55.340 Work from
00:19:55.820 Afar
00:19:56.220 It really
00:19:56.720 Felt like
00:19:57.240 You were
00:19:57.520 A war
00:19:57.920 Correspondent
00:19:58.740 You know
00:19:59.520 I didn't
00:20:00.080 Feel like
00:20:00.520 You were
00:20:00.820 Clubbing me
00:20:01.540 Over the
00:20:02.120 Head with
00:20:02.540 Your opinion
00:20:03.160 You were
00:20:04.080 Allowing
00:20:04.500 People to
00:20:05.100 Speak
00:20:05.500 And you
00:20:06.560 Know as
00:20:06.920 You and
00:20:07.160 I both
00:20:07.540 Know when
00:20:08.040 You allow
00:20:08.380 Them to
00:20:08.740 Speak
00:20:09.020 They often
00:20:10.140 End up
00:20:11.180 Condemning
00:20:11.780 Themselves
00:20:12.280 Better than
00:20:12.800 You and
00:20:13.140 I ever
00:20:13.520 Could
00:20:13.880 And it
00:20:15.860 Was
00:20:16.120 It was
00:20:16.900 Compelling
00:20:17.840 You know
00:20:19.080 As it
00:20:20.000 Happens
00:20:20.580 Journalism
00:20:21.180 That's like
00:20:21.580 You know
00:20:22.100 Being a
00:20:22.600 War
00:20:22.780 Correspondent
00:20:23.460 So you've
00:20:24.500 Seen all
00:20:25.580 Kinds of
00:20:26.140 Things
00:20:26.580 Particularly
00:20:27.500 So there
00:20:28.240 Was the
00:20:28.600 Pandemic
00:20:29.720 Morphed into
00:20:30.540 The current
00:20:31.080 War
00:20:31.380 Which you've
00:20:31.920 Described as
00:20:32.540 An information
00:20:33.140 War
00:20:33.540 Which is
00:20:34.840 How the
00:20:35.920 Conflict in
00:20:37.540 The middle
00:20:37.780 East between
00:20:38.540 Palestinians
00:20:40.280 And Israelis
00:20:41.000 Or Hamas
00:20:41.880 And the idea
00:20:42.400 For however
00:20:42.940 You want to
00:20:43.300 Expressent
00:20:43.880 Has played
00:20:44.580 Out
00:20:44.920 And just
00:20:46.300 This week
00:20:47.120 Something
00:20:48.000 Happened
00:20:48.760 That kind
00:20:50.060 Of seemed
00:20:50.520 To be
00:20:50.980 To me
00:20:51.520 Equal parts
00:20:52.340 Funny
00:20:52.760 And potentially
00:20:54.120 Serious
00:20:54.800 Involving a
00:20:55.560 Tractor
00:20:56.040 Tell us
00:20:56.840 What happened
00:20:57.380 In Toronto
00:20:57.880 This week
00:20:58.480 So there
00:21:00.700 Was a
00:21:01.260 Demonstration
00:21:02.220 Across from
00:21:03.840 The US
00:21:04.380 Consulate
00:21:04.980 In Toronto
00:21:05.560 And kind
00:21:07.260 Of in
00:21:07.580 The midst
00:21:09.200 Of a
00:21:10.920 Speaker
00:21:11.340 Going through
00:21:12.560 His talking
00:21:13.200 Points
00:21:13.720 There was
00:21:14.920 An orange
00:21:17.860 Kubota
00:21:18.760 Tractor
00:21:19.900 Driving on
00:21:21.300 The sidewalk
00:21:21.860 And
00:21:22.840 Essentially
00:21:23.900 It drove
00:21:24.760 Through
00:21:25.260 The protest
00:21:26.520 And the
00:21:27.280 Protesters
00:21:27.940 Were
00:21:28.200 Sorry to
00:21:28.600 Interrupt
00:21:28.920 Were they
00:21:29.840 Pro-Israel
00:21:31.100 Anti-Israel
00:21:31.860 Set the
00:21:32.300 Scene for
00:21:32.780 Us
00:21:33.040 Oh
00:21:33.520 Yes
00:21:34.200 So this
00:21:34.620 Was a
00:21:35.200 Pro-Palestine
00:21:36.420 Protest
00:21:36.800 And they
00:21:38.480 Were at
00:21:39.560 The US
00:21:39.960 Consulate
00:21:40.440 Because they
00:21:41.440 Opposed
00:21:42.380 The sort
00:21:43.580 Of proposed
00:21:44.480 Kind of
00:21:46.980 How are we
00:21:47.780 Going to
00:21:48.460 Rebuild
00:21:49.180 Gaza
00:21:49.620 And they
00:21:50.720 Are opposed
00:21:51.400 To the
00:21:52.580 Solution being
00:21:53.180 Proffered by
00:21:54.120 The US
00:21:54.600 And so
00:21:56.680 This tractor
00:21:58.240 Which to
00:21:59.900 Set the
00:22:00.280 Scene
00:22:00.600 It wasn't
00:22:01.420 Snowing
00:22:01.920 But as
00:22:04.000 I understand
00:22:04.660 It the
00:22:05.780 Tractor and
00:22:06.840 Then an
00:22:07.120 Accompanying
00:22:07.880 Truck with
00:22:09.640 A plow
00:22:10.640 That was
00:22:11.320 Driving on
00:22:11.780 The road
00:22:12.240 They were
00:22:13.060 Doing sort
00:22:13.580 Of a dry
00:22:14.020 Run in
00:22:14.980 Advance of
00:22:15.820 Snowfall
00:22:16.620 And so
00:22:18.280 I got
00:22:20.540 This
00:22:20.820 My videographer
00:22:21.740 Got this
00:22:22.180 Video
00:22:22.540 Of sort
00:22:24.100 Of it
00:22:24.280 Going through
00:22:25.220 The crowd
00:22:26.240 For those
00:22:28.260 Who aren't
00:22:28.620 Familiar
00:22:29.060 With the
00:22:30.800 Area around
00:22:31.620 The US
00:22:32.060 Consulate
00:22:32.620 It's a
00:22:33.820 Very wide
00:22:34.820 Pedestrian
00:22:36.420 Area
00:22:37.000 So there's
00:22:37.740 A large
00:22:38.800 Sidewalk
00:22:39.580 And there's
00:22:40.820 The Superior
00:22:41.260 Court of
00:22:41.680 Justice
00:22:41.960 And in
00:22:42.360 Front of
00:22:42.720 That building
00:22:43.680 There's
00:22:44.720 Sort of
00:22:45.060 Open space
00:22:45.740 And so
00:22:47.240 The majority
00:22:47.940 Of protesters
00:22:48.760 Weren't even
00:22:49.940 On the
00:22:51.120 Sidewalk
00:22:51.680 You had the
00:22:52.680 Speaker who was
00:22:53.480 In the middle
00:22:53.840 Of the
00:22:54.160 Sidewalk
00:22:54.720 And then
00:22:55.660 Kind of
00:22:56.140 Space around
00:22:56.820 Him and
00:22:57.760 Most were
00:22:58.280 Off to
00:22:58.840 The side
00:22:59.540 So this
00:23:00.660 Tractor did
00:23:01.780 Have space
00:23:02.520 To drive
00:23:03.900 Through
00:23:04.280 It's blue
00:23:06.020 Lights were
00:23:06.500 Flashing
00:23:06.960 It was
00:23:08.060 Periodically
00:23:09.660 You know
00:23:10.600 Honking on
00:23:11.120 The horn
00:23:11.540 Although maybe
00:23:12.880 There could have
00:23:13.360 Been a little
00:23:13.740 Bit more
00:23:14.240 Of that
00:23:15.360 What didn't
00:23:16.340 Happen is
00:23:17.420 It didn't
00:23:18.240 Break
00:23:18.580 It just
00:23:19.920 Kept
00:23:21.320 Kind of
00:23:22.260 Motoring
00:23:23.780 Through
00:23:24.220 Maybe at
00:23:25.500 Sort of
00:23:26.220 Slightly above
00:23:27.340 Walking pace
00:23:28.640 So it
00:23:29.500 It wasn't
00:23:29.740 Moving super
00:23:30.720 Fast but
00:23:31.560 It was
00:23:33.780 Nighttime
00:23:34.480 And I
00:23:36.020 Think protesters
00:23:36.860 And certainly
00:23:37.520 Myself because I
00:23:38.620 Was in the
00:23:39.020 Crowd
00:23:39.360 My initial
00:23:40.660 Thought in
00:23:41.220 Seeing a
00:23:41.640 Vehicle
00:23:42.120 Sort of
00:23:43.060 Coming at
00:23:44.400 The group
00:23:45.060 Was
00:23:45.580 Not good
00:23:47.460 Thoughts
00:23:48.140 I was
00:23:48.980 Thinking of
00:23:49.700 Nathaniel
00:23:50.220 Veltman
00:23:50.700 Or
00:23:51.240 David
00:23:51.980 Zegarac
00:23:52.620 Or people
00:23:53.180 Who
00:23:53.720 Kind of
00:23:54.520 Post online
00:23:56.480 You know
00:23:56.960 Get off
00:23:57.320 The road
00:23:57.780 All lives
00:23:58.400 Splatter
00:23:58.880 That kind
00:23:59.380 Of thing
00:23:59.680 It became
00:24:01.600 Apparent
00:24:02.120 That the
00:24:03.400 Tractor wasn't
00:24:04.280 Trying to
00:24:05.440 Hit anyone
00:24:06.520 But protesters
00:24:08.560 In reaction
00:24:09.800 To this
00:24:11.220 Vehicle
00:24:11.660 Passing by
00:24:12.500 Jumped in
00:24:14.040 Front of it
00:24:14.480 And tried to
00:24:15.320 Stop it
00:24:15.880 And were
00:24:16.360 Hitting it
00:24:16.800 With flags
00:24:17.380 And signs
00:24:17.940 And
00:24:18.920 The driver
00:24:22.200 Just sort of
00:24:22.880 Continued on
00:24:24.200 Someone got
00:24:25.440 A shot
00:24:25.960 Of her
00:24:27.080 Flashing
00:24:27.720 The middle
00:24:28.880 Finger
00:24:29.260 As she
00:24:30.640 Continued on
00:24:31.200 Her way
00:24:31.640 Police were
00:24:32.700 There
00:24:33.040 Not amid
00:24:34.680 The crowd
00:24:35.280 But sort of
00:24:36.160 On the
00:24:36.360 Opposite
00:24:36.900 Sidewalk
00:24:37.940 And she
00:24:39.780 Was pulled
00:24:40.180 Over a
00:24:40.940 Couple of
00:24:41.280 Blocks later
00:24:41.900 Sargent
00:24:42.600 Spoke with
00:24:43.120 Her
00:24:43.400 And then
00:24:44.940 She sort
00:24:45.740 Carried on
00:24:46.460 With her
00:24:47.440 Her job
00:24:48.460 So I guess
00:24:49.300 Whatever
00:24:49.640 Conversation
00:24:50.780 They had
00:24:51.420 Nothing
00:24:53.460 Arose
00:24:54.220 From that
00:24:55.120 And subsequently
00:24:56.220 The police
00:24:56.740 Have said
00:24:57.200 They don't
00:24:58.440 See any
00:24:59.280 Criminal intent
00:25:00.060 Protesters
00:25:01.840 For their
00:25:02.180 Part
00:25:02.540 Have
00:25:03.740 Kind of
00:25:04.760 Taken this
00:25:05.720 Event
00:25:06.200 As
00:25:07.240 An example
00:25:08.760 Of
00:25:09.400 Violence
00:25:11.080 Directed
00:25:11.840 Towards them
00:25:12.920 And they
00:25:13.740 Located the
00:25:15.120 Ladies
00:25:15.420 Social media
00:25:16.200 Page
00:25:16.760 Incidentally
00:25:17.760 She had
00:25:18.680 Commented
00:25:19.140 On an
00:25:19.800 All live
00:25:20.280 Splatter
00:25:20.700 Post
00:25:21.180 Among other
00:25:22.540 Things
00:25:23.020 That would
00:25:24.120 Suggest
00:25:24.660 That she's
00:25:25.900 Perhaps
00:25:26.400 Hostile
00:25:27.020 Toward
00:25:27.640 Their cause
00:25:28.480 Which calls
00:25:29.660 Into question
00:25:30.340 Kind of
00:25:31.240 What the
00:25:31.980 Mindset
00:25:32.520 Might have
00:25:32.900 Been
00:25:33.160 My personal
00:25:34.940 View
00:25:35.280 And you know
00:25:36.540 Obviously
00:25:36.820 I'm not in
00:25:37.280 Her head
00:25:37.680 But I
00:25:38.540 Think that
00:25:39.140 You know
00:25:40.540 She saw
00:25:40.940 That she
00:25:41.260 Had space
00:25:41.940 And maybe
00:25:42.800 Sees on
00:25:43.540 An opportunity
00:25:44.140 To startle
00:25:46.060 Or alarm
00:25:47.200 A group
00:25:47.740 That she's
00:25:49.780 Not fond
00:25:50.280 Of
00:25:50.580 And the
00:25:53.220 Situation
00:25:53.780 Escalated
00:25:54.720 Based on
00:25:56.180 How protesters
00:25:57.080 Responded
00:25:58.660 And now
00:25:59.660 Is I
00:26:01.440 Suppose being
00:26:02.040 Investigated
00:26:02.960 By the
00:26:03.620 City
00:26:03.900 And it
00:26:04.840 Turned into
00:26:05.640 Sort of
00:26:06.440 This big
00:26:06.860 Thing
00:26:07.280 Where
00:26:08.420 You know
00:26:09.380 It's
00:26:09.900 And this
00:26:11.020 Happens
00:26:11.360 All the
00:26:11.820 Time
00:26:12.180 It's
00:26:12.820 Happened
00:26:13.160 With
00:26:13.460 Some of
00:26:14.120 My footage
00:26:14.620 That has
00:26:14.960 Gone
00:26:15.260 Viral
00:26:16.060 If people
00:26:16.660 Are familiar
00:26:17.200 With
00:26:17.540 That
00:26:18.300 Image
00:26:19.520 Of
00:26:19.800 Toronto
00:26:20.220 Police
00:26:20.620 Handing
00:26:20.980 Over
00:26:21.320 A Tim
00:26:21.700 Horton
00:26:22.040 Coffee
00:26:22.920 Cariff
00:26:23.440 To
00:26:23.700 Protesters
00:26:24.420 That was
00:26:27.180 Me
00:26:27.420 And it
00:26:27.800 Was
00:26:28.000 Widely
00:26:28.900 You know
00:26:29.760 Interpreted
00:26:31.680 To suit
00:26:32.180 Pre-existing
00:26:32.820 Narratives
00:26:33.360 And I
00:26:33.600 Think that
00:26:33.960 That is
00:26:34.500 Kind of
00:26:35.220 The running
00:26:35.640 Theme
00:26:36.200 For me
00:26:37.060 Over the
00:26:37.420 Past five
00:26:38.020 Years
00:26:38.280 People
00:26:38.540 Will see
00:26:39.120 What they
00:26:39.840 Want to
00:26:40.220 See
00:26:40.500 And sort
00:26:40.940 Of
00:26:41.120 Make it
00:26:41.880 Fit
00:26:42.220 Their
00:26:43.420 Worldview
00:26:44.020 So you
00:26:45.660 Know it
00:26:46.100 Is it a
00:26:47.560 Mountain
00:26:48.180 Mole hill
00:26:49.060 Like there
00:26:51.620 Is I think
00:26:52.540 It's a
00:26:52.780 Situation where
00:26:53.480 Everyone
00:26:53.820 Behaves a
00:26:54.780 Little bit
00:26:55.080 Awful
00:26:55.380 Yeah
00:26:55.680 It was
00:26:56.740 I really
00:26:57.940 Felt it
00:26:59.000 Was
00:26:59.200 Representative
00:26:59.820 In the
00:27:00.260 Moment
00:27:00.560 You know
00:27:00.960 It was
00:27:01.520 On the
00:27:02.240 One
00:27:02.400 Hand
00:27:02.780 It was
00:27:03.440 Kind of
00:27:03.760 Funny
00:27:04.060 And then
00:27:04.420 You think
00:27:04.720 About it
00:27:05.080 And it's
00:27:05.260 Like well
00:27:05.600 No
00:27:05.840 Somebody
00:27:06.220 Could have
00:27:06.580 Trip
00:27:06.860 And they
00:27:08.020 Would have
00:27:08.220 Been run
00:27:08.580 Over and
00:27:09.100 That wouldn't
00:27:09.440 Have been
00:27:09.660 Funny at
00:27:10.260 All
00:27:10.620 And kind
00:27:11.800 Of both
00:27:12.220 Sides
00:27:12.620 Not looking
00:27:13.460 Too good
00:27:14.320 I mean
00:27:15.280 How
00:27:15.720 The stuff
00:27:17.300 You maybe
00:27:17.820 We can
00:27:18.320 Conclude
00:27:18.840 Here and
00:27:19.460 Have a
00:27:19.820 Quick chat
00:27:20.320 About your
00:27:20.860 Videographer
00:27:21.580 As well
00:27:22.340 You know
00:27:24.800 This kind
00:27:25.340 Of stuff
00:27:25.920 Is been
00:27:27.280 Happening a
00:27:28.080 Lot over
00:27:28.940 The
00:27:29.380 Since the
00:27:30.380 War
00:27:30.600 Started
00:27:31.100 And before
00:27:31.980 That you
00:27:32.440 Know you
00:27:32.680 Use the
00:27:33.120 Word
00:27:33.440 Divided
00:27:34.760 Society was
00:27:35.500 Divided
00:27:35.980 I think
00:27:36.400 A few
00:27:37.120 Minutes
00:27:37.480 Ago
00:27:37.820 What
00:27:38.880 Like
00:27:39.420 I'm not
00:27:40.660 Asking you
00:27:41.120 To be a
00:27:41.640 Sociologist
00:27:42.440 But I
00:27:43.500 Guess I
00:27:43.820 Kind of
00:27:44.140 Am
00:27:44.420 Like is
00:27:45.960 This stuff
00:27:46.720 Happening
00:27:47.400 For a
00:27:48.720 Reason
00:27:49.000 Is it
00:27:49.720 Because it
00:27:50.200 Sure seems
00:27:50.680 To be
00:27:50.900 Happening
00:27:51.300 A lot
00:27:51.780 Yeah
00:27:53.540 That's like
00:27:54.920 We could
00:27:55.400 Have a
00:27:56.520 Whole
00:27:56.680 Dissertation
00:27:57.360 On why
00:27:58.500 Things are
00:27:59.180 The way
00:27:59.520 They are
00:27:59.880 Right now
00:28:00.380 I believe
00:28:01.720 A lot
00:28:02.080 Of it
00:28:02.340 Has to
00:28:02.760 Do with
00:28:03.480 How we
00:28:04.480 Consume
00:28:04.980 Information
00:28:05.540 And people
00:28:06.780 Kind of
00:28:07.760 The extent
00:28:09.420 To which
00:28:09.940 They're
00:28:10.160 Terminally
00:28:10.680 Online
00:28:11.240 Or in
00:28:11.980 A particular
00:28:12.500 Echo
00:28:13.000 Chamber
00:28:13.360 I think
00:28:13.920 That that
00:28:14.280 Shapes
00:28:14.860 Perceptions
00:28:16.000 And then
00:28:16.760 Kind of
00:28:17.500 It affects
00:28:18.120 How people
00:28:18.740 Interact with
00:28:19.900 Each other
00:28:20.260 In the
00:28:20.560 Real world
00:28:21.120 Like I've
00:28:22.160 Observed
00:28:22.700 Over the
00:28:23.500 Past few
00:28:24.580 Years
00:28:24.900 And I
00:28:25.420 Would say
00:28:25.840 For me
00:28:26.840 Like COVID
00:28:27.300 Is the
00:28:27.660 Starting
00:28:27.920 Point
00:28:28.300 And it
00:28:29.760 Does seem
00:28:30.220 To be
00:28:30.760 Sure
00:28:32.240 Where
00:28:33.320 Sort of
00:28:34.360 Our
00:28:34.640 Norms
00:28:36.200 And
00:28:36.600 Kind of
00:28:37.360 The typical
00:28:38.160 Rules of
00:28:38.780 Engagement
00:28:39.280 Civility
00:28:39.980 Have fallen
00:28:41.660 By the
00:28:42.160 Wayside
00:28:42.660 And so
00:28:44.080 You know
00:28:44.940 Where people
00:28:46.420 Are willing
00:28:47.840 To use
00:28:49.240 Mental
00:28:49.640 Shortcuts
00:28:50.340 And oh
00:28:51.320 They're
00:28:51.560 Wearing a
00:28:52.040 Red hat
00:28:52.600 They must
00:28:53.260 Think this
00:28:54.020 And believe
00:28:54.600 That
00:28:55.020 And you
00:28:55.980 Know
00:28:56.180 Or look
00:28:57.200 They have
00:28:58.000 Kind of
00:28:58.700 This slogan
00:28:59.340 Or that
00:29:00.460 Belief
00:29:00.900 And from
00:29:02.360 My vantage
00:29:03.000 Point
00:29:03.380 Kind of
00:29:03.740 Just watching
00:29:04.460 Everything
00:29:05.400 And everyone
00:29:06.140 Around me
00:29:07.520 Like we're
00:29:08.920 All these
00:29:09.420 Patchworks
00:29:10.300 Of
00:29:10.720 Opinion
00:29:11.660 But want
00:29:13.740 To reduce
00:29:14.280 Each other
00:29:14.940 To one
00:29:16.080 Dimensional
00:29:16.720 Kind of
00:29:17.760 Characters
00:29:18.280 For quick
00:29:19.240 Gotchas
00:29:20.080 So I
00:29:21.060 Think that's
00:29:21.640 What's
00:29:21.860 Happening
00:29:22.340 In the
00:29:23.000 Background
00:29:23.440 And sort
00:29:25.160 Of October
00:29:25.620 7 was
00:29:26.940 Just one
00:29:27.520 Example
00:29:28.180 Of something
00:29:29.060 That
00:29:29.520 Like was
00:29:31.100 A
00:29:31.360 It created
00:29:32.020 Fractures
00:29:32.760 Among
00:29:33.620 Groups
00:29:34.620 And there
00:29:35.540 Are so
00:29:36.420 Many other
00:29:37.060 Kind of
00:29:37.580 Touchpoints
00:29:38.200 In the
00:29:39.200 Culture
00:29:39.500 War
00:29:39.860 A lot
00:29:40.880 Of which
00:29:41.380 Like
00:29:42.100 I shouldn't
00:29:43.500 Say all
00:29:44.040 But a lot
00:29:44.620 Of which
00:29:45.080 Doesn't
00:29:45.840 Really affect
00:29:46.820 Most people
00:29:47.540 In their
00:29:47.960 Day to
00:29:48.260 Day
00:29:48.500 But
00:29:49.540 Nonetheless
00:29:49.980 There is
00:29:50.820 This
00:29:51.160 Real
00:29:52.900 Sense
00:29:53.580 Of
00:29:54.340 Passion
00:29:55.640 And urgency
00:29:56.640 And kind
00:29:58.100 Of
00:29:58.340 Sloganeering
00:29:59.600 That
00:30:00.080 Just warps
00:30:01.800 The way
00:30:02.520 That people
00:30:03.000 Interact
00:30:04.160 With each
00:30:04.500 Other
00:30:04.740 So I
00:30:05.720 Think that
00:30:06.160 That's
00:30:06.600 Kind of
00:30:07.120 What's
00:30:08.000 Happening
00:30:08.380 You know
00:30:09.440 I don't
00:30:09.860 Know that
00:30:10.160 I have
00:30:10.620 A solution
00:30:11.580 For it
00:30:12.180 But there's
00:30:13.020 And that's
00:30:13.780 Just one
00:30:14.300 Angle
00:30:15.660 Of it
00:30:16.500 Within that
00:30:17.640 You have
00:30:18.220 I would say
00:30:19.340 Bad actors
00:30:20.100 Who take
00:30:20.680 Advantage
00:30:21.300 Of the
00:30:22.740 Heightened
00:30:23.100 Emotional
00:30:23.520 State
00:30:23.920 For their
00:30:24.280 Own
00:30:24.580 Personal
00:30:25.340 Agendas
00:30:25.820 You have
00:30:26.280 A lot
00:30:26.560 Of well
00:30:27.440 Meaning
00:30:27.680 People
00:30:28.120 Who find
00:30:28.700 Themselves
00:30:29.240 In environments
00:30:30.040 Where they
00:30:30.460 Are susceptible
00:30:31.300 To being
00:30:32.200 Radicalized
00:30:33.720 Or hardened
00:30:34.400 And you
00:30:36.740 It's
00:30:37.260 Overall
00:30:37.660 A fraying
00:30:40.080 Of our
00:30:40.480 Social
00:30:40.900 Fabric
00:30:41.480 So to
00:30:43.040 Bring it
00:30:43.320 Back I
00:30:43.720 Guess to
00:30:44.180 The start
00:30:44.880 Of our
00:30:45.120 Conversation
00:30:45.720 That's
00:30:46.000 Really what
00:30:46.520 I'm
00:30:47.080 Documenting
00:30:47.760 The way
00:30:48.420 That we
00:30:48.960 Interact
00:30:50.340 With one
00:30:51.040 Another
00:30:51.320 Well very
00:30:52.860 Quickly to
00:30:53.640 Conclude
00:30:54.080 It's just
00:30:54.840 20 minutes
00:30:56.000 Have gone
00:30:56.380 By I
00:30:56.720 Can listen
00:30:57.140 To you
00:30:57.480 Talk about
00:30:57.980 These things
00:30:58.500 For hours
00:30:59.660 But you're
00:31:00.500 Not alone
00:31:01.040 In this
00:31:01.560 Venture
00:31:02.320 This courageous
00:31:03.340 Venture
00:31:04.500 Adventure
00:31:05.160 That you're
00:31:05.780 On
00:31:06.140 You've got
00:31:07.640 A videographer
00:31:08.340 Who doesn't
00:31:10.100 Want to be
00:31:10.420 Identified
00:31:11.060 Publicly
00:31:11.940 Because the
00:31:13.400 Two of you
00:31:13.860 Received threats
00:31:14.900 So you're
00:31:15.920 Off in the
00:31:16.340 Face of this
00:31:16.820 Stuff but
00:31:17.220 You've got
00:31:17.620 Somebody who's
00:31:18.800 Assisting you
00:31:19.860 In documenting
00:31:20.540 All of this
00:31:21.080 Don't you
00:31:21.500 I do
00:31:23.180 And you
00:31:24.280 Know have
00:31:24.880 A real
00:31:26.440 Eye
00:31:27.960 For
00:31:28.680 Scenes
00:31:31.460 And in
00:31:32.560 My view
00:31:33.020 Is pretty
00:31:33.680 Cinematic
00:31:34.200 In the
00:31:34.960 Way that
00:31:35.620 He approaches
00:31:36.760 Camera work
00:31:38.580 And
00:31:39.120 Despite
00:31:41.920 Getting a
00:31:42.720 Lot of
00:31:43.580 Pushback
00:31:45.240 Which I
00:31:46.380 Think is
00:31:46.860 Mostly
00:31:47.320 Unwarranted
00:31:48.740 But you
00:31:50.260 Know and
00:31:51.320 Sometimes
00:31:52.420 Unlawful
00:31:53.120 He really
00:31:54.480 Takes it
00:31:54.920 In stride
00:31:55.500 So yeah
00:31:57.040 This
00:31:57.480 Is a
00:31:59.520 Two person
00:32:00.160 Endeavor
00:32:01.940 For sure
00:32:02.460 Well he's
00:32:03.180 An impressive
00:32:03.640 Person and
00:32:04.380 So are
00:32:04.760 You
00:32:04.960 And a
00:32:06.600 Lot of
00:32:06.920 Us are
00:32:07.460 Admirers
00:32:08.640 The courage
00:32:09.260 Of the
00:32:09.520 Two of
00:32:09.840 You going
00:32:10.240 On the
00:32:10.560 Front lines
00:32:11.200 Of this
00:32:11.680 Divided
00:32:12.800 Society to
00:32:13.600 Document what's
00:32:14.720 Going on
00:32:15.340 And help us
00:32:16.120 Try and
00:32:16.520 Understand it
00:32:17.180 So very
00:32:18.040 Grateful you've
00:32:19.400 Joined us
00:32:19.960 This week
00:32:20.580 And very
00:32:21.340 Grateful you're
00:32:22.000 Going to be
00:32:22.280 Joining us in
00:32:22.900 The future
00:32:23.320 To talk about
00:32:24.220 Not just
00:32:24.560 Protests but
00:32:25.320 Politics and
00:32:26.140 Culture and
00:32:26.760 Music and
00:32:27.340 All those
00:32:27.620 Things that
00:32:28.500 I know you
00:32:28.980 Know about
00:32:29.620 And so
00:32:31.460 Welcome to
00:32:32.340 Kinsella
00:32:32.700 Cast and
00:32:33.180 Thank you
00:32:33.640 Thank you
00:32:54.560 Oh honey
00:33:04.480 Don't you
00:33:05.320 Get funny
00:33:06.200 Thinking about
00:33:07.560 The way
00:33:08.520 We keep
00:33:09.240 Running
00:33:09.600 Through dust
00:33:10.300 In the
00:33:10.620 Ground
00:33:11.020 Oh
00:33:13.700 Oh honey
00:33:18.180 Don't you
00:33:19.020 Feel funny
00:33:19.940 Walking
00:33:20.600 Around
00:33:21.260 Cheeks
00:33:22.300 Red
00:33:22.860 Flushing
00:33:23.360 Feeling
00:33:23.960 Out of
00:33:24.420 Place
00:33:24.820 But
00:33:25.120 Know I
00:33:25.700 Got
00:33:26.000 Something
00:33:26.720 And
00:33:30.040 Then it
00:33:30.440 Comes
00:33:30.900 To
00:33:31.100 Me
00:33:31.960 An
00:33:33.500 Unmistakable
00:33:34.580 Reminder
00:33:35.760 That
00:33:36.600 Nothing
00:33:37.040 Good
00:33:37.540 Is
00:33:37.720 Left
00:33:38.360 Yeah
00:33:40.080 Everything
00:33:40.500 Good
00:33:40.920 Is
00:33:41.100 Gone
00:33:41.760 Ah
00:33:44.160 Oh
00:33:44.840 I
00:33:45.480 Try
00:33:46.260 To
00:33:47.740 Crystal
00:33:48.560 Lies
00:33:49.760 I
00:33:49.960 Can't
00:33:50.340 Give
00:33:50.640 You
00:33:50.900 A
00:33:51.080 Lies
00:33:51.500 Boy
00:33:58.680 I
00:33:59.080 Tried
00:34:00.260 To
00:34:01.420 Crystal
00:34:02.180 Lies
00:34:03.420 You
00:34:03.620 Gotta
00:34:03.920 Give
00:34:04.340 It
00:34:04.560 Up
00:34:04.840 Oh
00:34:08.520 Honey
00:34:13.020 Don't
00:34:13.680 You
00:34:13.900 Get
00:34:14.260 Funny
00:34:14.800 I
00:34:15.620 Got a
00:34:16.120 Hole
00:34:16.420 In
00:34:16.560 My
00:34:16.760 Head
00:34:17.160 It
00:34:17.360 Keeps
00:34:17.760 Crushing
00:34:18.300 I
00:34:19.040 Know I
00:34:19.340 Trying
00:34:19.860 My
00:34:20.140 Best
00:34:20.580 But
00:34:20.840 Leads
00:34:21.200 Nothing
00:34:21.680 The wind
00:34:25.980 Is
00:34:26.340 Cold
00:34:27.220 As
00:34:28.680 Twilight
00:34:29.460 Fades
00:34:31.040 Be
00:34:32.180 Wolf
00:34:32.680 Don't
00:34:33.200 Worry
00:34:33.560 Don't
00:34:34.020 Shye
00:34:34.520 Away
00:34:35.100 Be
00:34:35.620 Wolf
00:34:36.160 Don't
00:34:36.620 Worry
00:34:36.980 Don't
00:34:37.520 Shye
00:34:37.980 Away
00:34:38.060 Got
00:34:55.440 What
00:34:57.940 To
00:34:58.120 To
00:34:58.240 I can't give you a reason
00:35:00.240 Boy, I have tried
00:35:08.840 To change your mind
00:35:11.900 You gotta give it up
00:35:28.240 I can't give you a reason
00:35:35.240 I'm a mistake, I'm a reminder
00:35:39.240 Oh, honey, don't you get funny
00:35:50.240 Oh, honey, don't you get funny
00:35:54.240 Oh, honey, don't you get funny
00:35:57.240 Oh, honey, don't you get funny
00:36:01.140 And we're back, and our friend and mentor and muse, Brian Lilley, has just told me that he has his Christmas tree up, and I think that's communism. I think it's too soon. Why do you have your tree up, communist?
00:36:17.240 My communist Christmas tree up.
00:36:19.180 Because we leave town.
00:36:23.080 We leave town over Christmas, and my wife likes to see the tree up early. She likes to enjoy it for a few weeks before we head out of Dodge, as it were.
00:36:33.480 Real? Real or artificial?
00:36:36.280 Real. I've had artificial at various times in my life. I like a real tree. We had to go get a new stand, though, because we've had this one for years, and for whatever reason, the tree just kept falling over.
00:36:54.400 And we thought we had it stabilized, that it tied off. And then we go out to run errands yesterday afternoon, come back in, whole trees on the ground, water everywhere. Thankfully, only two ornaments broken, but two very nice ornaments. And so we had to scramble, get a new stand. It seems stable now. We've got to put the decorations back on today, though.
00:37:14.940 Well, here comes the segue.
00:37:16.940 And make eggnog lattes.
00:37:19.220 Oh, my God.
00:37:20.840 Yeah, I'm a lattes sipping liberal.
00:37:22.400 It's November, Brian. It's November. Okay, here comes the segue. Mark Carney was at the G20, and his tree fell over, or did it, with feminism and talking to Donald Trump. Tell us about those.
00:37:37.040 Well, look, you just have to watch Mark Carney interact with female reporters to see that he's no feminist.
00:37:46.160 Burn. Burn.
00:37:47.540 So the latest one is Ashley Burke from CBC. She's traveling with him, and she asked him about talking to Donald Trump, I guess, in light of these J.D. Vance comments about Canada's economy not doing well due to massive immigration, which has a lot of Canadians freaking out, as Laurie Goldstein points out in the Toronto Sun today.
00:38:09.280 Here are all the Canadian bank economists that were saying this for the last several years that it's hurting us. So she asks about that. And, you know, it's kind of like one of those look inside yourself, Rosemary moments. He's just dismissive of women all the time. And he just says, who cares? Who cares? It's a detail.
00:38:29.320 And it's like, oh, not quite. You know, the Toronto star is trying to play not talking to Trump is the new black. It's the new cool thing. It's, it's like 3D chess. So the fact that we can't get a call with him is now good. Come on.
00:38:47.320 But, but, but yeah, on feminist foreign policy, he was asked, I believe it was Dylan Robertson, who I think works with CP and said, look, I've noticed that you're framing things differently. The language isn't there. And he said, look, values are the same, but yeah, we're not talking about feminist foreign policy, which is probably a good thing because for Trudeau, it was never real. It was performative.
00:39:12.420 Yeah. Trudeau would claim it, but he didn't actually do it.
00:39:15.880 No, it's like you ran a feminist government, but didn't. My view is always be wary of men who go around telling you that they're feminists because they tend to be creeps. And so look, he, you know, Carney did talk about, yes, we're still investing in gender-based violence. Yes, we're investing in lifting women up economically, but also lifting up everyone economically and things like that.
00:39:36.960 And I have no issue with him changing that because, you know, as you just said, Trudeau would talk about it and not do anything or he would, you know, he, you know, one of his things and Robertson mentioned this in his question was that sexual health was a big part of this foreign policy.
00:39:59.040 So you would have, you know, the white savior from Canada going into very socially conservative religious countries in Africa and telling them you've got to accept all these conditions around abortion and access to the Plan B pill and things that are controversial in these countries.
00:40:19.480 You've got to accept them if you've got to accept them if you want our aid money.
00:40:23.120 You know, that, that did not go over well and it might make white liberals in Canada feel good, but you're actually causing friction with the people that you're going in and saying you're going to help.
00:40:35.000 So Mark Carney's still being secretly conservative leader. What about the real conservative leader?
00:40:41.340 I've been hearing, I've been hearing, and I know you have from caucus members and staff who we will not name, and I've been asking them as I'm sure you have about what's the level he's got to get at his leadership review early in the new year.
00:40:58.340 And then I'm being told north of 70, um, and that, that all that they're working on in the leader's offices you've written in our paper is leadership review.
00:41:09.860 What's the latest you've heard on, on the future of Pierre Paulyev?
00:41:14.360 Yeah. Well, I've been saying the 70 to 80% range for a while now. Um, you know, he can't go in and with the two thirds and say, it's okay. Uh, he can't show up.
00:41:25.240 But what did Jason Kenney got? I, you know, technically you get 50% plus one, you can stick around, but I think Kenney got 56 and said, okay, I'm out.
00:41:35.500 And, uh, by the way, I've, I've seen the guy lately, the former premier of Alberta, and he looks happier.
00:41:40.720 It's amazing when you run into politicians who are no longer in active office and it's like, wow, you look happy and healthy.
00:41:46.900 Uh, so, you know, speaking of that, bumped into Seamus O'Regan the other day here in Toronto, same thing.
00:41:56.280 Um, so, you know, this is, uh, you know, the seven north of 70 is what he has to get.
00:42:02.900 Um, they've, uh, calmed the, uh, um, the, the, the, the frantic panic that was happening after Chris Donchermann and Matt Jenneroo.
00:42:13.500 Um, uh, you know, we didn't see that drama playing out over the last week in the house and they, um, announced a new campaign manager today.
00:42:24.620 Uh, my, my exclusive in the sun is Steve Edhouse has taken over.
00:42:28.900 He's just off of a big win in Newfoundland and Labrador.
00:42:32.280 I know it's not a big province, but he's had wins in Alberta, Newfoundland and Labrador, helped on Nova Scotia's campaign, uh, helped on the failing Blaine Higgs.
00:42:42.160 Uh, campaign in New Brunswick, uh, but, you know, like everyone in politics, as you know, you have a, a record of wins and losses.
00:42:50.740 And lately it's been more wins than losses for Steve Edhouse.
00:42:54.320 So he's taking over from Jenny Byrne at the start of December.
00:42:57.260 And, you know, she's still around as an advisor.
00:43:01.060 She's on the national council, but she's not going to run the campaign in the next election.
00:43:04.600 I think that will help with, uh, a lot of caucus members as we head towards January.
00:43:10.720 Look, he's going to win the, the leadership review.
00:43:14.480 It's, does he win and keep caucus in February, in March, in April?
00:43:21.460 What about the poll?
00:43:23.200 Um, here I can ask you a question as a guy who helped with six majorities, six majorities.
00:43:27.960 Um, what did, what about the polling that shows like this amazing dichotomy where the, he, Polyev owns the party.
00:43:38.660 He owns conservative voters, but I don't know who it was.
00:43:42.780 It was Reed or one of them said 60% of the country disapprove of his leadership.
00:43:49.060 Like how the hell do they outhouse and Polyev and everybody else?
00:43:52.840 How do they deal with that?
00:43:55.780 Uh, so I was chatting with, uh, Steve yesterday, um, to write my piece.
00:44:03.860 And, you know, he talked about, you know, an important thing in any campaign is keeping it focused.
00:44:10.380 And they're still going to be very much on the affordability, cost of living, housing issues.
00:44:17.160 Uh, and, uh, because those are still top of mind for voters.
00:44:21.460 And I think it was Abacus this week had a chart out showing, uh, that those are still the top issues.
00:44:29.100 And they are especially the top issues with people under 50 and then over 50.
00:44:34.600 It's all about Donald Trump.
00:44:36.440 And so we're still in these two campaign type things going.
00:44:41.960 I'm not sure that Carney can run again on, on the Trump whisperer.
00:44:46.560 Um, because, you know, he sucks at it because he's terrible at it.
00:44:52.660 Trump's basically been whispering fuck off at us.
00:44:56.460 That doesn't help.
00:44:57.800 But with some Canadians, they do love that there, there is, and some of them are past conservative voters who are older.
00:45:05.100 Who just want to tell the U.S. to go stuff it and they don't care if it hurts the economy.
00:45:12.120 So it's very much a big divide on that.
00:45:15.640 Um, so, you know, Abacus is saying it's got to keep them focused.
00:45:18.800 They're going to be on those issues.
00:45:20.320 Uh, I love the turn of phrase to use, uh, ensure you're not wasting sideways energy.
00:45:25.540 Um, on small topics that you, you know what I'm talking about when you get into a campaign and somebody or some group in the party wants to go running off on their pet issue that does nothing to move votes forward.
00:45:38.900 Um, so he's got to go in and take care of that.
00:45:41.600 He did that really successfully for Danielle Smith in Alberta.
00:45:45.300 Um, they were, you know, depending on the poll, eight, nine, 12 points back at the NDP just a few months before they won another majority.
00:45:54.040 Uh, but I'd say one of the things they have to do, and I talked about this with, uh, Ian Brody in the last episode of Full Comment.
00:46:03.340 I had Ian, who was Stephen Harper's former chief of staff, dealt with the Belinda Strong at War Crossing, dealt with the insanity of that.
00:46:10.160 And then a few months later was his chief of staff as they won the election and took power for almost 10 years.
00:46:15.400 And, and, and he said, look, the, going into the last campaign, Pierre was polling way ahead of his party.
00:46:24.040 And, uh, so that's why the campaign was all about him.
00:46:28.100 Now he's dragged on his party.
00:46:30.220 So the campaign's got to be about the team.
00:46:32.500 So expect to see, you know, outhouse craft something around a team.
00:46:37.000 I didn't speak to him directly about that, but, you know, he's got to showcase that there's a, a government waiting.
00:46:42.300 And so you're going to, it's not going to just be the Pierre Polio show anymore.
00:46:46.920 It's going to be, here's the conservative team waiting to take over.
00:46:52.240 You talked about the Trump whisper.
00:46:54.100 So let's talk about Trump to close things off.
00:46:57.200 Um, and I'm not so interested in Epstein and that psychodrama.
00:47:01.420 It'll, it'll do what it does.
00:47:03.060 But my view is Donald Trump's not going to jail for the Epstein files, because if there had been something there, the Democrats, when they were in power, would have found a way to leak it.
00:47:12.300 Do you think Joe Biden or Kamala Harris would have leaked that before November 5th?
00:47:16.600 Yeah, I do.
00:47:17.340 No, that would never have happened.
00:47:19.400 Yeah.
00:47:19.800 Somebody, somebody would have gotten it out to us.
00:47:22.040 I mean, it's not helpful to him, obviously.
00:47:24.400 Um, you know, losing, uh, Marjorie Taylor Greene and, and so on.
00:47:28.860 But the, the more, uh, critical thing, uh, is Ukraine.
00:47:34.020 Um, he has come up with a peace plan, allegedly, that basically looks like what Vladimir Putin wants.
00:47:43.080 And Zelensky, and along with Canada and Europe, has said, uh, no thanks.
00:47:47.920 But then Marco Rubio came out and said, well, that was a leak.
00:47:52.600 It's not official.
00:47:54.300 Which I thought, wow, that's really fucking sloppy.
00:47:57.160 Like, or is this a strategy?
00:47:59.500 What's your take on the Ukraine stuff?
00:48:01.780 Because, you know, thousands of lives are hanging in the balance here.
00:48:04.980 It's a serious subject.
00:48:06.000 Yeah, well, I saw the reaction of, um, Canadian and, uh, uh, European officials.
00:48:16.060 Um, and I do see Rubio's tweet here.
00:48:19.020 The peace proposal was authored by the U.S.
00:48:21.740 It was offered as a strong framework for ongoing negotiations.
00:48:25.300 It's based on input from the Russian side, but also based on previous and ongoing input from Ukraine.
00:48:30.700 So, like they're saying, this is not a final thing, but a place to start.
00:48:37.100 I, um, I don't, I don't like the idea of Ukraine giving up land to Russia, but I look at the statement from the Coalition of the Willing, as Carney keeps calling it.
00:48:50.040 And they say, we cannot accept that, uh, Russia would take land by force and this is unacceptable.
00:48:56.920 And my thought was, okay, well, what are you going to do about it?
00:49:03.080 You know, Ukraine has been fighting this war for four years on its own.
00:49:07.300 Yes, we've all given assistance, but we haven't sent in troops.
00:49:10.600 We haven't sent in planes.
00:49:11.720 We haven't provided air support.
00:49:14.980 So are we just going to issue another news release that demands that Vladimir Putin give the land back?
00:49:22.900 Because that won't get it back.
00:49:24.660 And, and so, you know, Europeans are not willing to go in there, um, and, and say that we're going to help Ukraine fight and win this war, then we're still at a stalemate.
00:49:39.940 So I, I think, I don't see a, a credible situation where some land isn't surrendered.
00:49:49.840 And by the way, we let them take Crimea in 2014 without, you know, doing anything above raising the voice slightly, which was our first mistake.
00:49:59.340 But how do you get it back?
00:50:02.080 I, I don't have an answer for that.
00:50:04.280 And so, um, I guess we just keep letting the war drag on and people dying, which is also unpalatable.
00:50:14.240 It sure is.
00:50:14.880 Well, um, on that note, just want to let you know this week, as I mentioned to you, I've been hunting for, um, a smart, uh, kind of centrist, uh, woman commentator.
00:50:28.040 And we've got Karema said is going to be joining us on a regular basis, you know, Karema and like her and know the work that she does.
00:50:35.780 And, uh, so I've got her talking about the tractor story this week in Toronto.
00:50:41.940 That was a big story in Toronto.
00:50:43.180 The tractor.
00:50:44.300 Remember that one?
00:50:45.420 I did see that one.
00:50:46.820 Yeah.
00:50:47.000 All right.
00:50:47.600 All right.
00:50:47.940 Listen to that.
00:50:48.860 Thanks brother.
00:50:49.780 Have a great day.
00:50:50.540 Thank you.
00:50:50.640 I want to get out.
00:51:06.540 I've conceded.
00:51:09.740 I want to levitate.
00:51:12.480 I just want to feel something.
00:51:14.560 I'm tired of numbing my brain till I can't seem to think straight.
00:51:25.840 I'm tired of running from problems.
00:51:28.800 I can't seem to escape.
00:51:32.960 With no way out there, you can't see it.
00:51:36.960 You have to believe it.
00:51:38.740 All right.
00:51:39.720 All right.
00:51:41.300 The problem to disguise you got back to it is automatic.
00:51:49.260 I just want to have a fire.
00:51:55.940 These thoughts are left not unbreakable.
00:52:02.100 The feeling inside are saying this is too hard.
00:52:06.080 We can defeat it.
00:52:08.380 That's just who we are.
00:52:10.580 I just want out of my head.
00:52:14.380 I get the feeling that this universe is simulated.
00:52:36.140 I got my problems.
00:52:41.340 All my friends, they say I'm complicated.
00:52:44.820 I can't get the taste off the tip of my tongue.
00:52:49.120 T-t-taste off the tip of my tongue.
00:52:52.700 T-t-t-totally confusing.
00:52:54.760 All this secrecy is suffocated.
00:52:56.800 A lot of quest.
00:52:58.220 T-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t.
00:53:02.140 Yeah, you have to believe it
00:53:04.540 Are you ready to go?
00:53:06.340 Are you ready to go?
00:53:06.780 All of the problems you disguise
00:53:09.640 You gotta fight till it is automatic
00:53:14.400 I just want out of my head
00:53:19.980 These thoughts I've left on and read
00:53:26.700 The feeling inside is saying this is too hard
00:53:32.120 We can defeat it, that's just who we are
00:53:36.580 I just want out of my head
00:53:41.640 Whoa-oh-oh
00:53:56.700 I just want out of my head
00:54:08.200 It feels a little bit
00:54:22.920 I just want out of my head
00:54:33.440 These thoughts I've left on and read
00:54:40.740 The feeling inside is saying this is too hard
00:54:45.520 We can defeat it, that's just who we are
00:54:49.900 I just want out of my head
00:55:19.900 I just want out of my head
00:55:49.900 I want out of my head
00:55:51.900 I want out of my head
00:55:53.900 I want out of my head
00:55:55.900 I want out of my head
00:56:01.900 I want out of my head
00:56:07.900 I want out of my head
00:56:13.900 I want out of my head
00:56:15.900 I want out of my head
00:56:17.900 I want out of my head
00:56:19.900 I want out of my head
00:56:21.900 I want out of my head
00:56:23.900 I want out of my head
00:56:25.900 I want out of my head
00:56:27.900 I want out of my head
00:56:29.900 I want out of my head
00:56:31.900 I want out of my head
00:56:33.900 I want out of my head
00:56:35.900 I want out of my head
00:56:37.900 I want out of my head
00:56:39.900 I want out of my head
00:56:41.900 I want out of my head
00:56:43.900 I want out of my head
00:56:45.900 I want out of my head
00:56:47.900 Thank you.
00:57:17.900 Thank you.
00:57:47.900 Thank you.
00:58:17.900 Thank you.