kinsellacast - December 14, 2025


KINSELLACAST 392： Where is there hope？ Bondi beach with Lilley and Sa'd, plus Mulroney and U2, Westerberg, Cure and OMD


Episode Stats


Length

53 minutes

Words per minute

117.04631

Word count

6,250

Sentence count

208

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

25

sentences flagged

Hate speech

23

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

On the first day of Hanukkah, a terrorist attack on a Jewish beach in Australia has left many dead and many wounded. This is a terrible day and we need to stand arm in arm with our Jewish brothers and sisters. God bless.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 It's the KinsellaCast, starring Warren Kinsella.
00:00:13.440 Hey, it's Warren. Welcome to KinsellaCast. I'd say good morning, but it's not a good morning.
00:00:18.420 As you have undoubtedly heard by now, there's been a terrorist attack on Bondi Beach in Australia.
00:00:24.680 And many people have been killed. Many people have been wounded, mostly Jews. 0.65
00:00:30.860 And they were killed and attacked because they are Jews. 0.99
00:00:34.680 And I know one of them. His name is Arsene Ostrowski.
00:00:38.920 He's a human rights lawyer. He's helped me out with my book, The Hidden Hand.
00:00:42.660 We talked many times. He's an extraordinary guy. Born in Ukraine.
00:00:47.880 His family left Ukraine when he was little because of anti-Semitism.
00:00:52.320 And they moved to Australia. And he was on that beach last night and was wounded.
00:00:57.140 And I know that because I woke to a picture of him on my phone, covered in blood.
00:01:04.360 So he survived, thank God, but many others did not.
00:01:08.000 So I'm on my way to a Hanukkah ceremony, a celebration at the synagogue in Belleville.
00:01:15.140 And it's going to be a very different kind of celebration than I think had been planned.
00:01:21.160 But I think it's really important that it goes ahead and it's really important that I go to stand there arm in arm with my Jewish brothers and sisters.
00:01:32.880 So if you get the sense of words that are failing me this morning, you're right.
00:01:38.420 They are. These events are horrible and becoming more and more frequent.
00:01:43.240 And it really changes things when you know somebody who was in one of them and was almost killed.
00:01:50.580 That changes a lot.
00:01:51.720 So I've got, helping me with words, Brian Lilly and Karima Saab.
00:01:57.120 Karima, as you guys probably know, is part Palestinian.
00:02:00.400 And she's been warning this stuff has been coming for a long time.
00:02:03.480 So I have the two of them talking.
00:02:05.100 I've got sad music reflecting the mood.
00:02:07.080 I've got The Cure and U2.
00:02:10.840 And Paul Westerberg and orchestral maneuvers in the dark.
00:02:15.900 And, you know, like what is today?
00:02:17.560 Today is the triumph of light over darkness.
00:02:21.720 Like that's the first day of Hanukkah.
00:02:23.840 And that's really what it means.
00:02:27.520 Perseverance, faith.
00:02:29.200 You know, every religion has that hope.
00:02:32.080 So there's this symbol of hope, faith of perseverance.
00:02:36.080 And apparently it's wrong in Toronto, in a Toronto building.
00:02:40.800 Because it's a Jewish symbol. 0.64
00:02:42.260 So the story is, which was exclusively given to me this week, a woman who lives in a condo building in Toronto, went downstairs in there in the lobby.
00:02:54.920 It was a Christmas tree.
00:02:56.180 And she said, oh, that's nice.
00:02:57.420 Maybe we should get a menorah up as well.
00:03:00.200 This little candelabra with candles in it, celebrating home.
00:03:04.220 And the condo board said no.
00:03:07.260 And she was upset about that.
00:03:09.400 And they wouldn't change course.
00:03:14.500 And then the next year there was no Christmas tree or menorah.
00:03:17.160 But this year there's a Christmas tree up.
00:03:18.760 And they say that that's acceptable because it's a cultural symbol.
00:03:22.980 Whereas menorah is a religious symbol. 1.00
00:03:26.060 So, of course, that's just total bullshit. 0.99
00:03:28.540 And I write about it in the paper this morning. 0.99
00:03:31.940 You can read all about it.
00:03:33.120 But she's taking them to court along with Sija, the Center for Israel and Jewish Affairs in Canada.
00:03:39.080 They're taking them to the Human Rights Tribunal in Ontario.
00:03:42.780 Not for a ton of money or anything like that.
00:03:45.760 Just to get the menorah shown.
00:03:48.580 This symbol of hope.
00:03:50.720 This symbol of light in the darkness.
00:03:53.160 And on this dark day, we need that kind of light.
00:04:00.440 We need that kind of perseverance and faith more than ever before.
00:04:05.740 So, God bless everybody in Australia who's dealing with these terrible events now.
00:04:13.400 And God bless us all.
00:04:15.120 Sleep.
00:04:23.580 Sleep.
00:04:26.780 Sleep tonight.
00:04:33.500 And may your dreams be realized.
00:04:41.300 If the thundercloud passes rain, so let it rain, rain down on here.
00:05:02.300 Sleep.
00:05:02.800 Sija, let it rain, rain and майонish, rain down on you. 0.99
00:05:07.040 So let it rain, rain down on here.
00:05:09.420 So let it rain, rain down on here.
00:05:12.540 Leave. 0.99
00:05:13.120 So let it rain, rain down on here.
00:05:17.140 Sleep.
00:05:17.780 So let it rain, rain out on here.
00:05:23.420 Sleep.
00:05:23.460 Sleep tonight.
00:05:23.980 Sleep tonight.
00:05:27.480 Sleep tonight
00:05:32.480 And may your dreams
00:05:38.480 Be realized
00:05:42.480 If the thundercloud
00:05:48.480 Passes rain
00:05:52.480 So let it rain
00:05:58.480 Let it rain
00:06:02.480 Rain on him
00:06:22.480 And we're back and we're back on the first day of Hanukkah
00:06:28.480 This is the first day of Hanukkah
00:06:30.480 The triumph of light over darkness
00:06:32.480 But we've all awoken to darkness
00:06:36.480 This terrible event in Australia on Bondi Beach
00:06:42.480 Where I don't know the body count
00:06:49.480 But many people have been killed
00:06:52.480 Jews and non-Jews 0.94
00:06:54.480 In a terror attack
00:06:56.480 And I know one of the people who was shot
00:07:00.480 Helped me out with my book
00:07:02.480 Helped me out with my book
00:07:03.480 Another guy who's helped me out with my book
00:07:05.480 Is Brian Lilly
00:07:08.480 Who along with me and Joe Warmington
00:07:12.480 And some others
00:07:14.480 Have been raising the alarm about this for months
00:07:18.480 Saying that this was going to happen
00:07:20.480 Which it now has in Washington
00:07:22.480 In Boulder
00:07:23.480 Now Bondi Beach 0.68
00:07:24.480 Brian, forgive me for the ridiculous question
00:07:29.480 But what's your reaction to all of this this morning? 0.95
00:07:34.480 It's horrible news to wake up to
00:07:37.480 But I've got a friend whose son is traveling in Australia
00:07:40.480 My first reaction was to text and ask, you know
00:07:43.480 Is he okay?
00:07:44.480 And he's not staying anywhere near Sydney
00:07:49.480 He's there down there for several months
00:07:51.480 But it turns out that for his birthday
00:07:53.480 Visited Sydney
00:07:54.480 And was at that beach just hours before the attack
00:07:58.480 So he was at the beach earlier in the day
00:08:02.480 This attack happened just before 7pm local time
00:08:07.480 At Bondi Beach
00:08:09.480 And it was an attack carried out at an event
00:08:15.480 Organized by the Jewish community
00:08:17.480 For the start of Hanukkah 0.97
00:08:20.480 This is the result of what that slogan 1.00
00:08:25.480 That all those idiots that march by my place 1.00
00:08:28.480 Here in Toronto 1.00
00:08:30.480 Yelling Globalize the Intifada
00:08:32.480 This is what it means
00:08:34.480 The shooting in Washington D.C.
00:08:36.480 That killed the two young staffers
00:08:38.480 The firebomb attacks on seniors
00:08:42.480 At a fun run to release the hostages
00:08:45.480 In, I believe that was Colorado
00:08:48.480 All of these attacks
00:08:51.480 This is what globalized the Intifada means
00:08:54.480 And I'm just shocked that we haven't had more of this in Toronto yet
00:08:57.480 More of this in Canada
00:08:59.480 At large, be it Vancouver
00:09:01.480 Or even smaller centers
00:09:03.480 Because the insipid evil that is anti-Semitism
00:09:09.480 Has spread straight across the country
00:09:12.480 Well, they've tried in Canada
00:09:14.480 The Israel rally that Ian and I attended
00:09:20.480 Over a year ago on Parliament Hill
00:09:23.480 Two young offenders were arrested
00:09:27.480 By the RCMP Security Service
00:09:29.480 And the OPP
00:09:30.480 And the U.S. police
00:09:32.480 They were planning to
00:09:34.480 Mass casualty event 0.99
00:09:36.480 And try and kill a bunch of people at that event 0.99
00:09:39.480 So they 1.00
00:09:40.480 As you pointed out
00:09:41.480 They've
00:09:42.480 They've wanted to
00:09:44.480 Unfortunately, our police forces
00:09:46.480 Have been able to stop it so far
00:09:49.480 Why
00:09:50.480 Another
00:09:52.480 Weird question, I guess
00:09:55.480 Why hasn't anybody listened?
00:09:57.480 Like it
00:09:58.480 It's happening
00:09:59.480 It's like really happening in real life
00:10:01.480 You know somebody
00:10:02.480 Who
00:10:04.480 Could have been killed
00:10:05.480 I know somebody
00:10:06.480 Who was almost
00:10:07.480 Who was shot
00:10:08.480 Who was shot
00:10:10.480 Why isn't anybody listening?
00:10:16.480 I think some are
00:10:17.480 I think
00:10:18.480 You know, like the
00:10:20.480 Horrors of the
00:10:21.480 The war in Ukraine
00:10:22.480 That Russia's perpetrated there 1.00
00:10:25.480 I think at a certain point
00:10:26.480 People who aren't involved
00:10:27.480 People who are on the other side of the world
00:10:29.480 It fades
00:10:30.480 You know, just like it fades from the news cycle
00:10:35.480 And people think less about it
00:10:39.480 I
00:10:41.480 When you look at the polling
00:10:43.480 Young people are
00:10:45.480 Drawn to
00:10:47.480 This
00:10:49.480 Not to the violence
00:10:50.480 But the anti-Semitism
00:10:51.480 Yeah
00:10:52.480 They're drawn to it
00:10:53.480 You see that
00:10:54.480 In the polling
00:10:55.480 That
00:10:56.480 Well
00:10:57.480 They deserve what they got on October 7th
00:10:58.480 The war
00:10:59.480 You know
00:11:00.480 Attitudes like that
00:11:02.480 And
00:11:03.480 I think it's much more than you and I have talked about
00:11:07.480 The impact of social media
00:11:09.480 Especially platforms like TikTok before
00:11:11.480 Where the algorithm is slanted
00:11:14.480 In that way
00:11:15.480 I think it is much more than that
00:11:17.480 It's a lack of
00:11:19.480 Knowledge
00:11:21.480 Or understanding
00:11:23.480 Poor education
00:11:25.480 On issues of history
00:11:27.480 All of these things
00:11:30.480 Have combined to the point where
00:11:32.480 You know, mild anti-Semitism is fine 1.00
00:11:35.480 And that turns a blind eye to everything that leads up to this
00:11:38.480 What I'm talking about too is the violence
00:11:44.480 You know, I don't know why this
00:11:47.480 I'm still dealing with this British superflu 1.00
00:11:51.480 And I was reading
00:11:55.480 Charlie Kirk's Widow
00:11:57.480 And then remembering some of the things
00:12:00.480 That happened there
00:12:02.480 And it
00:12:03.480 And then I looked at some of the comments online
00:12:05.480 And
00:12:07.480 All of it was
00:12:09.480 Appalling
00:12:11.480 You know
00:12:13.480 The violence
00:12:15.480 As you point out
00:12:17.480 With young people
00:12:18.480 But with too many people
00:12:20.480 It's now considered
00:12:22.480 A legitimate
00:12:24.480 Form of political expression
00:12:26.480 It's
00:12:28.480 It's
00:12:30.480 Everywhere
00:12:32.480 And
00:12:33.480 Getting used to it
00:12:34.480 I mean, are they getting used to it?
00:12:36.480 Well, we've gone from
00:12:38.480 I don't know if you've heard the saying
00:12:40.480 Or a variation of it
00:12:42.480 That 1.00
00:12:43.480 It's fine to punch a Nazi 1.00
00:12:45.480 And 1.00
00:12:49.480 And then it gets to 1.00
00:12:51.480 It's fine to shoot a Nazi 1.00
00:12:53.480 And 1.00
00:12:54.480 Who was a Nazi in the eyes of
00:12:56.480 So many of these people
00:12:57.480 Who was a fascist
00:12:59.480 Was Charlie Kirk
00:13:00.480 And you just extend that
00:13:01.480 To whoever you don't like
00:13:03.480 And
00:13:05.480 Yes, they see violence as
00:13:07.480 A
00:13:09.480 A means to an end
00:13:11.480 You know
00:13:13.480 I was raised that
00:13:14.480 You settle disputes at the ballot box
00:13:16.480 Not with the bullet
00:13:18.480 And
00:13:20.480 It
00:13:22.480 It
00:13:24.480 It's strange
00:13:25.480 I'm not going to attribute
00:13:26.480 What happened this morning in Australia
00:13:27.480 Or
00:13:28.480 You know
00:13:29.480 I guess their time this evening
00:13:30.480 In Australia
00:13:31.480 To
00:13:32.480 To the left
00:13:33.480 But in
00:13:34.480 North America
00:13:35.480 The political left
00:13:36.480 Has embraced violence
00:13:37.480 In a big way
00:13:39.480 From riots
00:13:40.480 To the shooting of Charlie Kirk
00:13:42.480 To
00:13:44.480 Feeling it's okay to attempt to assassinate 0.82
00:13:46.480 Donald Trump
00:13:47.480 Um
00:13:49.480 And
00:13:50.480 And so
00:13:51.480 Maybe it makes people immune
00:13:53.480 What
00:13:54.480 Do we know who
00:13:55.480 Did this shooting in
00:13:57.480 Australia
00:13:58.480 Bondi Beach yet?
00:13:59.480 Yeah, they know
00:14:00.480 They know
00:14:02.480 Yeah, one's dead
00:14:04.480 Now it's two
00:14:06.480 Two guys
00:14:07.480 Yeah, Arab descent
00:14:09.480 And
00:14:10.480 But I, you know
00:14:12.480 I
00:14:13.480 Yes, you're right about it coming from the left
00:14:14.480 You know, I had a
00:14:15.480 Story on the front page of our paper just a few days ago
00:14:18.480 It's coming from the right two 0.74
00:14:19.480 And it's not an ideological thing
00:14:22.480 It's coming from young people 1.00
00:14:24.480 It's young people 0.99
00:14:26.480 Who are excusing violence
00:14:28.480 And celebrating violence
00:14:30.480 Young people
00:14:31.480 And like you're a dad
00:14:33.480 I'm a dad
00:14:34.480 Like what 0.99
00:14:35.480 What the fuck has happened? 0.99
00:14:37.480 Is it as you say 0.99
00:14:39.480 Social media
00:14:40.480 Has it made them
00:14:42.480 Immune
00:14:43.480 Different
00:14:44.480 To the suffering of other
00:14:46.480 Humans?
00:14:49.480 It may have
00:14:50.480 And you know
00:14:52.480 You know, thankfully
00:14:54.480 My oldest boy who would be in that demographic
00:14:57.480 Is just not on social media
00:14:59.480 Does not participate in any meaningful way
00:15:02.480 Will share photos with family members
00:15:07.480 Through direct messaging
00:15:09.480 Direct messaging
00:15:10.480 But is not on these platforms
00:15:12.480 Where it drives you
00:15:14.480 Insane
00:15:16.480 And that was a conscious decision on his part
00:15:19.480 So
00:15:21.480 We're good on him
00:15:23.480 It could be part of
00:15:25.480 Of what is happening
00:15:26.480 But yeah, just the decision that
00:15:28.480 Violence is okay 0.97
00:15:30.480 I don't get it
00:15:31.480 I don't get it
00:15:33.480 And
00:15:35.480 And I've never understood
00:15:37.480 The hatred to the Jews
00:15:39.480 Again, you know 0.55
00:15:41.480 I'm not Jewish 0.98
00:15:42.480 I did not grow up in a Jewish neighborhood
00:15:44.480 But I was
00:15:46.480 You know, went to a Catholic school
00:15:48.480 Where I've heard some horror stories
00:15:50.480 Of what Catholics have been taught in school
00:15:52.480 About Jews and anti-Semitism being taught in schools
00:15:55.480 I was not taught that
00:15:56.480 I was taught that they are older brothers and sisters
00:16:00.480 In faith
00:16:02.480 So I've got a different view
00:16:05.480 All of this is perplexing
00:16:07.480 How you can do this to any human being
00:16:10.480 Why you would go out and
00:16:13.480 And attack a fellow human being like this
00:16:16.480 It's not as if you were defending your life
00:16:19.480 Defending your loved ones
00:16:20.480 Defending your home
00:16:22.480 You're going to a beach
00:16:24.480 Where people are celebrating lights
00:16:26.480 And defenseless
00:16:27.480 They're completely defenseless
00:16:29.480 Standing on a beach
00:16:31.480 Thank God for that one man
00:16:33.480 On the video that I've seen
00:16:35.480 Who jumped one of the guys
00:16:37.480 And got the gun away from him 0.68
00:16:39.480 So brave
00:16:41.480 I've sent a note to my friend
00:16:43.480 Arsene Ostrowski
00:16:45.480 This morning
00:16:46.480 He's obviously dealing with
00:16:48.480 All kinds of things
00:16:49.480 And just said, you know
00:16:50.480 I'm just so sorry
00:16:53.480 I felt powerless
00:16:55.480 Just, you know, words
00:16:57.480 What good are words?
00:16:58.480 What are you looking for?
00:17:00.480 Maybe conclude here
00:17:01.480 You write about politicians and leaders
00:17:03.480 And you hold them to account
00:17:05.480 What do you want to see
00:17:07.480 From our leaders in Canada
00:17:10.480 In the wake of this slaughter
00:17:12.480 In Australia
00:17:14.480 What do you want to see from them?
00:17:16.480 Well, I'm sure that we will see
00:17:19.480 The
00:17:21.480 Mealy-mouth words
00:17:23.480 What I'd like to see
00:17:25.480 Is action
00:17:27.480 Here in Toronto
00:17:28.480 There's been a political decision
00:17:30.480 To inform our police forces
00:17:32.480 I know everyone says
00:17:34.480 Politicians do not direct police
00:17:36.480 That's a line that I've paired it before
00:17:38.480 Because it's supposed to be how things work
00:17:40.480 It's not how they work
00:17:42.480 So I'd like to see
00:17:44.480 Directions
00:17:46.480 From the politicians
00:17:48.480 To our police
00:17:49.480 To our intelligence services
00:17:51.480 That we will not accept this
00:17:53.480 That we will not stand by
00:17:55.480 Because while we haven't gotten to this point yet
00:17:57.480 It's not for lack of trying
00:17:59.480 It's not for
00:18:01.480 You know
00:18:03.480 Even the intimidation that goes on
00:18:05.480 In this city
00:18:07.480 Where Hamasniks walk into Jewish neighborhoods 1.00
00:18:10.480 Or harass Jewish businesses
00:18:13.480 You know
00:18:15.480 These sorts of things
00:18:17.480 Has to stop
00:18:19.480 Like any other community
00:18:21.480 You know
00:18:22.480 I live downtown not far from Church
00:18:23.480 In Wellesley
00:18:25.480 Which is the heart of Toronto's gay neighborhood 0.84
00:18:28.480 If people were marching into Toronto's gay neighborhood 0.82
00:18:31.480 And harassing
00:18:33.480 Gay men and lesbian women 0.99
00:18:35.480 Just for the fact that they are gay and lesbian 0.71
00:18:38.480 That would have been a stop put to that 0.98
00:18:41.480 Ages ago
00:18:43.480 There has to be a stop put to the harassment
00:18:45.480 Of the Jewish community
00:18:47.480 In Jewish neighborhoods
00:18:48.480 In Jewish businesses
00:18:50.480 We have to show that
00:18:52.480 It's simply not acceptable
00:18:54.480 Actions not words
00:18:55.480 I would like to
00:18:56.480 To see
00:18:58.480 And
00:19:00.480 Well
00:19:01.480 I'll definitely be
00:19:02.480 Lighting the menorah tonight
00:19:04.480 Hear hear
00:19:05.480 Me too
00:19:06.480 Alright brother
00:19:07.480 Sad day
00:19:08.480 But thank you for taking time
00:19:10.480 To
00:19:12.480 Speak with me on it
00:19:14.480 And I guess
00:19:15.480 You and I will be writing about
00:19:17.480 This terrible event today
00:19:18.480 And in the days to come
00:19:20.480 So have a good one
00:19:21.480 Reach out
00:19:25.480 Josh
00:19:27.480 We'll see you guys
00:19:29.480 We'll see you next time
00:19:30.480 Bye
00:19:35.480 Shelt
00:19:39.480 Way
00:19:41.480 Shelt
00:19:42.780 Way
00:19:44.480 To wonder
00:19:59.340 Of everything we may
00:20:06.060 Times it's worth before
00:20:14.720 Of all the things you say
00:20:23.660 Times it's worth before
00:20:32.360 To wonder
00:20:52.360 Of everything we may
00:20:59.360 Times it's worth before
00:21:08.360 Of all the things you say
00:21:17.360 We always were before
00:21:26.360 Today
00:21:27.360 Today
00:21:39.360 Today
00:21:49.360 Today
00:21:51.360 Today
00:21:52.360 Today
00:22:02.360 Today
00:22:03.360 Today
00:22:04.360 Today
00:22:05.360 Today
00:22:06.360 Today
00:22:07.360 Today
00:22:17.360 Today
00:22:18.360 Today
00:22:19.360 Today
00:22:20.360 Today
00:22:31.360 Today
00:22:32.360 Today
00:22:33.360 Today
00:22:34.360 And Karima
00:22:35.360 Just to set this up
00:22:37.360 Karima
00:22:39.360 For
00:22:40.360 The very few of you are unfamiliar who she is
00:22:43.360 As documents protests and and too often confrontations have been taking place over the past few years in Canada
00:22:51.360 From
00:22:52.360 From
00:22:53.360 The convoy stuff to now with the the anti-israel mostly anti-israel protests and has been warning that there's been a breakdown in civility and decency and that it was going to lead to some terrible consequences and
00:23:10.360 And
00:23:11.360 Today
00:23:12.360 Today
00:23:13.360 Today
00:23:14.360 Today
00:23:15.360 Today
00:23:16.360 On the first day of Hanukkah it has Bondi beach in Australia on a beach you know where people were with their families and at their most defenseless and so forgive me Karima for asking the horrible obvious journalist question but what's your reaction to what you've heard in the scene so far?
00:23:35.360 far it's uh not a nice thing to wake up to it may be the understatement of the year um and
00:23:47.040 to your point just now uh my immediate thought is you know that there's nothing
00:23:55.800 that immunizes canada or makes us exceptional or otherwise special that we couldn't be
00:24:04.940 something similar happen here um so you know i'm looking at these news stories wondering about
00:24:13.360 kind of the micro level that you know who what how uh and and those are questions i'm sure will be
00:24:22.560 answered in the coming days um but uh yeah this is the extreme end of breakdown in civil society
00:24:33.400 and you've said that this was the inevitable consequence of that kind of breakdown
00:24:40.520 um thank god we've avoided so far in canada but you've documented a number of events where it
00:24:48.340 feels like it's going to come close what have you seen with your own eyes what have you heard with
00:24:53.100 your own ears when you cover these protests and document them where where does that transition
00:25:00.320 take place from just mere words to actual bloodshed well it happens sometimes in the crowd that
00:25:09.140 you know there is a trigger or a flashpoint and what was initially people chanting doing their own thing
00:25:19.440 can quickly become an unruly mob and this is true kind of across the board of what i've documented um you know
00:25:30.960 there's something to crowd dynamics in that sense um i've seen all manner of things um from you know the
00:25:40.400 pushing and shoving and yelling um to more explicit acts of violence often violence targeting
00:25:49.220 police officers um you know i've witnessed arrests um for people who have uh weapons um i i've
00:26:00.180 seen then protesters gathering outside police stations to demand the arrest of their comrades um
00:26:11.380 you know there was someone who had a bottle of what was labeled ammonium hydroxide at an event um and and and so
00:26:20.980 a whole range of behaviors that any one incident would be kind of shocking um right but it's now almost
00:26:32.100 normalized um and my experience is that you know things just escalate they tend to escalate until there's
00:26:40.820 an actual breaking point and i fear that that will look like violence that can't be undone
00:26:49.240 the connection between words and action you know the thing i've always believed and i've written
00:26:57.760 is that hateful deeds are preceded by hateful words and you see a lot of that rhetoric uh all the time
00:27:06.060 i guess i guess the one that we're hearing this morning is you know globalize the intifada
00:27:11.660 and is this a globalization in the intifada with the the horrible event in australia or proceeding that
00:27:19.580 in washington dc or boulder colorado is it um our words becoming deeds increasingly all over the world
00:27:29.260 it's an interesting question i too am a believer in the power of words i'm also mindful that
00:27:41.580 words will be interpreted differently depending on one's sort of framework right and so there is an
00:27:49.500 objective meaning towards and then sort of a constructivist we're saying this but actually
00:27:56.620 mean that um and and so that's where like there's tension sometimes at protests because um there will
00:28:04.380 be a particular chance that fits poorly with others and then a doubling down and insistence on it's our
00:28:12.380 right to speak that way um and and and concerns that okay but this is is a possible incitement it may
00:28:19.100 not be explicit um but that is the undertone um globalize the intifada uh is a very common chant um i
00:28:28.220 would say um references to the intifada generally um are are almost ubiquitous at these events and if you
00:28:37.500 were to ask protesters they are referring to they would say that they're referring to the literal
00:28:44.700 arabic translation a shaking off we want to shake off uh it's a form of revolution no more oppression
00:28:52.380 so on so forth um if you look kind of historically um the term came about
00:29:01.100 in a deliberate effort to kind of lower the temperature i think on language and so
00:29:07.420 that's why that word um was popularized but then in practice the intifada involved uh countless
00:29:17.420 suicide bombings and other forms of terrorist attacks right so that then becomes part and parcel
00:29:24.140 of the term and so people pick and choose what they mean right and and in in practical terms
00:29:33.260 um i think the word has has been tainted uh and there is sort of insistence on on sticking with that
00:29:42.700 language you know we won't be pushed away from we won't be tone policed we're gonna express ourselves
00:29:49.180 the way we want um so is this an example of globalizing the intifada i haven't read enough um to sort of say
00:29:59.740 um for sure um what these gunmen were you know we have some basic sense of it but i i don't know um
00:30:11.180 is that a possible interpretation of the term for sure um you know that that's pretty plainly um and
00:30:18.620 you'll have sort of so-called progressives here um in the the academic or or journalist class um who are
00:30:28.300 openly suggesting that um there is no like you the conflation between zionist and and jewish person
00:30:39.260 like it's if someone supports israel they are fair game for harassment um and i i don't think that
00:30:45.820 that that's sustainable in canada um i just don't and and i think that this becomes an end result and i say that
00:30:56.860 um not as an endorsement of the state of israel but because we still have laws here um that prevent certain
00:31:07.900 types of behavior and again uh there is this gradual erosion of basic decency and not just decency but
00:31:18.620 respect for criminal law final question what do you think you know you've been excuse me documenting all
00:31:27.580 of this uh for so long on many fronts on many battle lines i guess and um we do know that the police have
00:31:39.500 uh prevented uh mass casualty events in ottawa twice one in toronto um a couple elsewhere in the country
00:31:49.660 do you think of somebody who pays attention to this growing anger in society do you think the bondi beach
00:31:56.140 type event is something that is inevitable in canada i hesitate to say inevitable i think that there's
00:32:07.500 always time to course correct it hasn't happened up to this point um we have seen um terror motivated
00:32:16.220 attacks before uh so it wouldn't be completely unprecedented um if nothing changes um then
00:32:26.060 yes the logical trajectory um is acts of of violence um and and acts of violence along the lines of
00:32:35.260 what we just saw and that's that's terrific to say or think about um so it's worst case scenario um not
00:32:43.180 out of the realm of possibility at all um but not necessarily inevitable um and you know there's maybe i'm
00:32:51.180 naive or optimistic in saying this but there's there's still time for people to turn it down a few
00:32:58.860 notches um and that doesn't you know just act right right act right within your moral convictions um but
00:33:09.580 there are no justifiable bad shortcuts um and you know but that's a reflection of the echo chambers i
00:33:19.900 suppose we find ourselves in um but this is not normal uh but it could be something that happens here
00:33:27.420 well i hope you're right i hope it is not inevitable i don't know either um god knows what's going to
00:33:34.140 happen but it just feels awfully awful uh on this uh morning the first uh day of hanukkah and beginning
00:33:43.340 of a religious season holiday season for lots of people so just uh be safe i think you're heading out
00:33:50.620 to an event to an event to do what you do so just uh be careful and we look forward to talking to you next
00:33:57.260 week cheers thank you who here in the crew was he talking to he was laughing and smoking
00:34:11.260 who who here in the crew was he talking to you what words were spoken
00:34:22.780 i shot an actor in the street
00:34:30.540 it was my debut at directing
00:34:47.900 we nailed him in the hands and feet
00:34:53.180 last seen
00:35:05.180 last him
00:35:06.140 last seen he was in his trailer
00:35:08.460 who
00:35:13.020 Who here in the crew was he talking to, or what was he saying?
00:35:23.020 Who here in the crew was smoking to, smoking and laughing?
00:35:34.020 I shot an actor in the street
00:36:04.020 I shot an actor in the street
00:36:15.020 Last seen he was in his trailer wrestling
00:36:26.020 I need to retake on that scene
00:36:38.020 Keep looking for him, I need his blessing
00:36:49.020 Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney Show.
00:37:18.860 It's Friday, which means we have an all-star team joining us for this week in politics.
00:37:23.860 Please welcome Warren Kinsella and Chris Chapin to the show.
00:37:25.860 Guys, welcome, welcome, welcome.
00:37:27.860 Thanks so much for being here.
00:37:29.860 Thanks for having me.
00:37:30.860 All right, let's jump into that.
00:37:32.860 Mark Carney got an early Christmas present yesterday, and he's very happy to show it off.
00:37:37.860 So let's give a warm welcome to our newest member of the Liberal Party, Michael Ma.
00:37:45.860 Wow.
00:37:46.860 Such a big welcome.
00:37:47.860 Thank you.
00:37:48.860 Thank you.
00:37:49.860 All I want to say is Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a great 2026 coming to all of you.
00:37:59.860 Thank you, and enjoy the party tonight.
00:38:02.860 I mean, okay, so he's in a room full of liberals.
00:38:05.860 He's the only liberal in the room who didn't vote for the budget, and he got a standing ovation.
00:38:12.860 So that's 2025 to me.
00:38:15.860 Warren, why was everybody so happy about that?
00:38:18.860 Well, because they're one seat closer to a majority.
00:38:22.860 Like, it was a Christmas present, it was a New Year's present, it was a birthday present, wrapped all in one.
00:38:29.860 He's one seat away from majority, and I am hearing that there are other conservatives, at least two, who are about to be in the wind, and he's going to get his majority.
00:38:39.860 So, yeah, they're pretty happy about that. They don't have to worry about an election for another year.
00:38:44.860 Yeah, I think a lot of people – I'm fine with that. I don't need to go back to the – but, like, these politicians, Chris, traditionally, if you're a floor crosser, you don't have the longest career. 0.99
00:38:58.780 I mean, Scott Bryce is probably the exception that proves the rule, but most of them are one or two terms after that, and they're done.
00:39:05.420 So the long-term success is not – it's for the liberal brand. It's not for these floor crossers. 1.00
00:39:10.620 No, absolutely. You know, there's very little win for most people that cross the floor.
00:39:16.920 I think it's probably just vested in the fact that there's always going to be trust issues with who you are.
00:39:22.440 You know, you abandoned your team to come join and play on our team.
00:39:25.480 So, you know, but that said, it's a huge win for the Liberal Party of Canada, and Mark Carney specifically, to Warren's point.
00:39:31.800 He's one seat closer to a majority government that the people of Canada didn't give him.
00:39:37.160 You know, they're playing great politics. I hope they don't get the majority, but I've heard similar rumors to what Warren was insinuating, that there's a couple more in the wings.
00:39:47.440 And given what they just went through, you know, you look at the drama around getting the budget passed, but then bringing forward the pipeline MOU.
00:39:54.460 A week later, Elizabeth May said she felt blindsided and wouldn't support the government again.
00:39:59.840 And there's a couple of people in his own caucus that I think are questioning the prime minister's policy directive.
00:40:05.360 So getting that much closer to having that majority vote in parliament and not needing to stress about the things you're going to do for the next couple of years is a massive coup for the prime minister.
00:40:15.240 But Warren, the longer this gets drawn out, in my opinion, just one man's opinion,
00:40:21.260 the floor crossers, the later in the game it gets, they start looking more and more psychopathic to me. 1.00
00:40:29.080 Meaning like, yes, yesterday you had, on Wednesday, he's at the conservative Christmas party, smiling it up, yucking it up, big smiles on his face, dancing with everybody.
00:40:39.520 And then the next day, he's a liberal.
00:40:41.420 That takes a special kind of cold calculation.
00:40:43.940 Yeah, well, welcome to politics, which, you know, that's, that's just how it is.
00:40:50.120 And like, it's all about winning, guys, right?
00:40:53.980 And Carney's that much closer to, to winning.
00:40:57.800 And, and so, you know, I give him credit.
00:41:01.240 I, I thought you guys know, this guy never been involved in politics before at this level,
00:41:06.880 but he's playing it pretty good for somebody who doesn't have a lot of experience.
00:41:11.060 Number one, number two, this is a comment on the leadership of Pierre Polyev, whether conservatives like it or not.
00:41:18.920 I don't even actually care what's going to happen at his leadership review in January.
00:41:23.140 Right now, his caucus are voting with their feet and saying, we don't have confidence in this guy.
00:41:29.160 Like, this wouldn't be happening just because of Carney.
00:41:32.080 It's also happening because of Polyev.
00:41:34.340 The, the people within that caucus clearly were dissatisfied with the leadership of their own leader.
00:41:41.520 And, you know, I'm, I'm sure, I'm sure that's playing into it as well, but Chris, anything to add to that?
00:41:47.200 No, I, I, you know, I, I won't let one or two MPs speak for, for Polyev's entire leadership.
00:41:53.040 But, uh, if, if a couple more start crossing the floor, it's, uh, I think there's going to be a lot of questions being asked around that, that caucus table.
00:42:01.440 And, and there, you know, there's no question, uh, losing to this quickly after an election.
00:42:06.780 Um, you know, I think Michael Ma's a bit lower on the, you know, the pecking order than Chris Dontremont was.
00:42:12.520 I mean, you know, Chris walking being their, their lone Nova Scotia MPs, a lot different than, you know, one of your Markham MPs crossing the floor, uh, who frankly, most people have never heard of, but you know, it's, it's certainly of concern.
00:42:24.420 And I, I thought Pierre had kind of cauterized this issue within caucus.
00:42:28.860 Yeah.
00:42:29.520 I'm not so sure anymore.
00:42:30.600 Yeah.
00:42:30.880 Yeah.
00:42:31.300 Well, it's, again, we're going to be paying very close attention, especially over the holidays.
00:42:34.540 Um, all right.
00:42:35.440 Uh, on Monday, I believe it was Monday.
00:42:37.560 We started musing about who could be a good, um, a good replacement to ambassador Hillman in Washington.
00:42:44.880 And a number of the names that came up were, uh, Tory stalwarts.
00:42:49.600 Uh, you had the Jason Kenney's, you had the John Chavez, you had the Lisa rates, all of them would say, you know what?
00:42:54.240 If, if Mark Carney wants to do something to reach across the aisle, if he really wants to blunt any sort of, uh, um, a criticism from the Tories, pick one of those people.
00:43:02.980 They would, they would, they do a great job and they've got, um, a lot of connections down there and it'd be great.
00:43:08.960 But now we're hearing that Mark Wiseman, uh, is, uh, on the short list and he was one of the loudest voices of the $100 million, $100 million population for Canada front.
00:43:19.620 Uh, and, um, uh, I know we have to get to a hundred million at some point,
00:43:24.080 but the speed with which, uh, that was going to happen is, um, was a little dubious.
00:43:28.860 Uh, what do you guys think of, of, of Mark Wiseman potentially being the front runner for the ambassadorship of, in Washington?
00:43:35.200 Um, we'll start with you, uh, Mr. Uh, Kinsella.
00:43:39.620 I couldn't pick him out of a police lineup.
00:43:42.340 Neither could anybody else.
00:43:44.620 So I, I don't really have a strong opinion about him.
00:43:47.120 Um, what I did have an opinion about was Ms. Hillman, as competent and as experienced a diplomat as she was, was not getting the job done.
00:43:56.200 Yeah.
00:43:56.900 Um, you know, Carney sent down his A-team supposedly to get a trade deal with Trump and they've been down there for months.
00:44:04.200 I think some of them have actually had a change of address and, and like nothing's happened.
00:44:09.280 So he had to make some change.
00:44:11.320 So I don't think she resigned so much.
00:44:14.000 It was, it was urged to head to the exit.
00:44:16.840 So, um, that wasn't working.
00:44:19.220 So they needed to make a change.
00:44:20.780 I don't know if this new guy is it.
00:44:23.020 The one thing I've noticed about Trump is he surrounded himself with people he's personally comfortable with.
00:44:29.680 They may not be experts, but they're people he trusts.
00:44:33.040 Um, so like Lutnick.
00:44:34.800 So maybe that's what Carney's doing here is getting somebody that he trusts that he thinks can get the job done.
00:44:41.220 Yep.
00:44:41.840 Uh, what do you think, Chris?
00:44:43.720 Well, I think if there's one thing I've been impressed about the prime minister over, you know, the couple months he's, he's been in power, has been his willingness to get his people into the roles he wants them to.
00:44:54.220 Uh, and this, you know, to Warren's point screams, I think Hillman was pushed out or politely asked.
00:44:59.560 And I mean, from what I've read on Mark Wiseman, uh, he was described as Mark Carney's protege, somebody who he's worked with and, and clearly has a, a large deal of trust in.
00:45:09.960 And so, you know, making him potentially the ambassador to the United States is a position you darn well better trust the person given the circumstances we're in.
00:45:17.660 So I, I don't know a whole lot about him beyond that.
00:45:20.360 I, you know, I agree.
00:45:21.840 I'm a little concerned with anybody who thinks this a hundred million population idea is a great place for, for us to be as a country.
00:45:27.860 But, uh, from, from the perspective of having somebody that the prime minister trusts and thinks can do the job down in Washington, that's somebody we should all be rooting for.
00:45:36.760 And if this is the guy that, that the prime minister thinks is best suited for it, then, you know, uh, Godspeed for it.
00:45:42.420 Well, listen, I think, uh, Warren, I think we're losing you after this segment cause you've got, you've got work to do, but before you leave, I wanted to highlight, we had a conversation with the head of the law fair project who is doing some, uh, work based on reporting that you did in the Toronto sun on, uh, in 2024, relating to, um, uh, charitable, uh, charitable organizations that may or may not be running afoul of the law here in Canada.
00:46:06.080 And I want to congratulate you on that.
00:46:08.740 Uh, thanks.
00:46:09.480 Yeah.
00:46:09.660 The story is, um, there's been some unfairness, uh, CRA, which is in charge of charities has been letting some so-called pro-Palestinian charities, uh, do some things that do not reflect what they, they're supposed to be doing.
00:46:25.560 Whereas long time charities, uh, like one I've been involved with, like the Jewish national fund been around for a century, plants trees and builds parks in Israel.
00:46:34.740 Well, got, got decertified, got shut down by the government of Canada.
00:46:39.140 And that's, that's not fair and that's not right.
00:46:41.760 And, um, so I think the law fair project, Brooke Goldstein, who is a proud Montrealer like you, Ben, and now lives in New York and is a very impressive person.
00:46:51.080 She and her team who are formidable have taken this on and said enough is enough and, uh, welcome to it.
00:46:57.760 Uh, so hopefully they have some success.
00:46:59.820 All right.
00:46:59.920 Well, thank you very much for that.
00:47:01.120 And when we come back, we're going to be discussing why everyone should be paying attention to the reinventing of the V.C.
00:47:07.300 Let's listen.
00:47:32.740 Sharp and open, leave me alone
00:47:39.820 And sneezing less every night
00:47:43.220 As the days become hell
00:47:46.320 You're awaited, waiting in the cold light
00:47:50.960 A noise of screams as my clothes
00:47:55.180 As the figure is tightened
00:47:57.580 The spiders inside from the dust on the lips
00:48:02.740 Of a vision of hell
00:48:05.040 I laughed in a mirror
00:48:07.260 For the first time in a year
00:48:27.580 A hundred other words
00:48:30.740 Blimey with your purity
00:48:34.040 Like an old painted doll in the throats of dust
00:48:41.200 I think about tomorrow
00:48:43.480 Please let me sleep
00:48:46.540 As I slip down a window
00:48:49.220 Freshly squashed blind
00:48:52.460 You mean nothing
00:48:55.500 You mean nothing
00:48:59.780 You mean nothing
00:49:29.780 I can't lose myself in Chinese art
00:49:39.540 I can't lose myself in Chinese art
00:49:53.260 I can't lose myself in Chinese art, American girls 1.00
00:50:01.780 All the time, lose me in the dark, please do it right
00:50:09.240 Run into the light, I will lose myself
00:50:15.480 Tomorrow, soon play my heart explodes
00:50:21.140 My memory in a fire
00:50:24.180 Somewhere on the sun, leaves much of fire
00:50:51.140 I can't never say no
00:51:16.800 I can't never say no to anyone but you
00:51:23.800 I can't never say no to anyone but you
00:51:30.800 I can't never say no to anyone I can't never say no to anyone but you
00:51:38.800 Too many secrets, too many lies
00:52:00.680 Friving with hatred
00:52:02.860 Too many secrets
00:52:07.060 Please make it good tonight
00:52:10.060 With the same image
00:52:15.040 Heart-split sequence
00:52:17.120 To spare our time
00:52:18.860 I will never be clean again
00:52:23.140 Touch the eyes
00:52:25.700 It's my stained face
00:52:28.000 I will never be clean again
00:52:31.580 Touch the eyes
00:52:34.460 It's my stained face
00:52:36.860 I will never be clean again
00:52:45.860 I will never be clean again
00:52:53.860 I will never be clean again
00:53:02.860 I will never be clean again
00:53:06.860 I will never be clean again
00:53:15.860 I will never be clean again
00:53:19.860 I will never be clean again