KINSELLACAST 393： Warren gets Grinchy with Lilley, Sa'd, Mulroney - plus Jacuzzi Boys, Suzi Quatro, Dillinger Four, Surfbort
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 9 minutes
Words per Minute
149.05586
Summary
The moment you wake up on a Sunday morning and you see a photo of someone you know covered in blood, and you pick up your phone to find out who did it. Those are the moments when the camera's lens swings back onto you. What do you do? How do you react?
Transcript
00:10:43.960
and we're back and i am at my cabin somewhere in northern ontario and i'm looking out at
00:10:57.100
at least a couple feet of snow and a frozen lake and it is goddamn cold out there
00:11:03.580
and but brian lily is presently somewhere else where are you brian lily i i am where i spent
00:11:11.760
christmas the last several years at my in-laws place in beautiful palm springs california i'm
00:11:18.160
sitting outside on the deck watching the sun come up over the horizon i'm wearing a pair of shorts
00:11:24.540
a t-shirt a light hoodie and my fuzzy slippers you're a bastard you know
00:11:30.720
how are things in gavin newsom's kingdom is he going to be president of the united states
00:11:37.540
uh i think if he ran last time he would have been yeah or could have could have been could
00:11:44.220
have been he would have done uh well i mean it was tight enough that anybody did better than
00:11:49.300
kamala than they could have won at least on the national vote who knows how the swing states
00:11:54.240
would go but he he would have been a much better choice and i think i said that to you at the time
00:11:58.660
that you did it as much as uh you know he gets a lot of bad press and he has a lot of positives and
00:12:06.820
a lot of negatives i thought he would have been the better option for them because his appeal to
00:12:12.740
independence and moderate republicans was a lot stronger anyway um but after the fires and after a
00:12:21.300
couple of other things i think it becomes tougher for him and then but we'll see but he's bringing the
00:12:27.860
fight to trump isn't he i mean trump is ending the year rather badly and not because he was a piece
00:12:33.620
of shit about rob reiner or he's disappearing epstein files it's just he's had a bad time he's
00:12:40.420
pretty unpopular now not just because of dick gavin newsom isn't he yeah look i didn't like his
00:12:46.260
post about rob reiner but rob reiner is also a guy that posted after the uh uh the bullet struck
00:12:52.420
trump's ear that oh hopefully next time he doesn't turn his head or something of that effect i mean
00:12:56.980
these guys they were over the top about each other and i just hate that stuff um i don't like it with
00:13:05.140
anybody uh you know people are people is uh the wise philosophers known as depeche mode said
00:13:14.900
so trump you know i i kept hearing that is um uh he had the lowest approval ratings and so i did what i
00:13:24.820
always look to the data and pulled up the uh real clear politics uh polling average and how how is he
00:13:33.300
doing and it's wild like right now he is at a 43.3 approval rating 53.6 disapproved that's the the average
00:13:47.780
and it ranges from polls saying he's at 39 to polls saying he's at uh 47 or 45 and these are reputable
00:13:59.380
pollsters like harvard harris saying he's at 47 approval um he's a a bit below a first year president
00:14:10.180
but in the range that presidents tend to sit at over the last 20 years obama was the last president to have
00:14:16.740
an approval rating above 50 and that was only in his first year before that it was george bush in 2003
00:14:23.460
and mostly presidents are in the if they're doing well they're at like 46 approval and if they're doing
00:14:28.980
badly uh they're at 40 and if they're in the normal range it's like 43 to 44. well you have much more
00:14:36.900
you have much more faith in pollsters than i do i just uh i i truly believe they are snapshots i think
00:14:43.780
what matters is elections and he his party got their asses kicked asses kicked in the midterms
00:14:50.500
in the special elections and that's when the special elections and um my worry is that canadians put too
00:14:58.260
much faith in that the republicans are going to do badly in the midterms as a way to get rid of the
00:15:04.500
tariffs um i don't think that's a good strategy on our part one keeps the tariffs around a lot longer
00:15:10.820
because do we have a strategy just out of curiosity okay just checking no we don't but um one i don't
00:15:18.740
think free trade deal with canada is going to be popular with either party in the midterms secondly a
00:15:25.380
bunch of the stuff that trump has done economically is going to kick in in the new year and you're seeing
00:15:32.260
that on uh year-end stories down here like no tax on tips kicks in next year a general tax cut kicks in
00:15:39.300
next year um no tax on overtime kicks in next year so all these things that he promised hasn't
00:15:46.820
delivered on yet he'll deliver on and when people have more money in their pockets they're happier um
00:15:53.540
so and i i i've also just learned over the last year in canadian politics things change man yep they
00:16:01.700
sure do well let's talk about canadian politics so as the year ends it sure is a bit different than it
00:16:07.700
was exactly a year ago um justin trudeau was was prime minister still and pierre polyev was going
00:16:15.700
to be prime minister and nearly you know 25 close to 30 points ahead according to some pollsters
00:16:22.820
and it looked like it was just set in stone and that's the way it was and then look what happened
00:16:27.620
so what do you think about the year that our leaders have had from carney to trudeau to polyev to
00:16:33.620
jagmeet singh uh what's your take on on how everybody did and what do you think uh what are
00:16:39.860
what are we going to see in the new year well i i mean i think people forget that you and i a year ago
00:16:46.660
did a whole episode on how within months justin trudeau would be dating katie perry they forget that
00:16:54.740
what do i think i think that um voters are fickle polls can change campaigns matter tm tm um yeah
00:17:04.900
you got sick of hearing that from me uh but i was sitting on the same patio last january 6th
00:17:12.820
talking to you and adrian batra when the news hit that the trudeau had resigned and we did a
00:17:20.020
quick batter's burning questions video and one of you asked like what does this mean and i said
00:17:27.860
well the liberals can win now and i think you almost fell off your chair yeah i thought you were
00:17:31.540
on crack actually but uh you were right it it's harder to get down here than on the streets of
00:17:37.780
toronto so i don't do it while i'm down here uh the um you know so my message to liberals this year is
00:17:47.780
um don't be so smug you got a couple of floor crossers and they're all like yeah we're going
00:17:52.500
to get a majority we're going to easy streets like well things can change i i did my year-end
00:18:00.500
interview with pier poliev at post media tell us about that so is he loosened up so he still got
00:18:06.820
starch in his boxers he loosened up a bit my first question to him was um did did you see any of this
00:18:15.940
last year coming which made him laugh um wasn't sure how we would take that but i mean we did a
00:18:23.940
year under last year when it looked certain that he was going to be prime minister
00:18:27.540
mm-hmm and um so he didn't slug you he didn't punch you but he's he's got to be disappointed i mean
00:18:35.940
you're i mean you've been writing about it extensively um the natives are restless within his party
00:18:43.060
his caucus there's some unhappiness um he's got a leadership review coming up in a few weeks
00:18:50.260
what do you think the future holds for pier polio
00:18:54.660
well we talked about that and i asked him if he could uh if if he felt he could stay on his leader
00:19:01.700
if he has more infections and he said that'll be up to the members uh and that it's not the people who
00:19:08.340
make background deals that decide who's leader it's uh you know the the party membership and then
00:19:13.860
and then made his pitch to them um but you know the the interview just went live it's on youtube i'll
00:19:20.660
be sharing it all over socials this morning uh he um you know we talked for close to 10 minutes about
00:19:29.860
that and then spent about 25 minutes talking about other stuff but we we focused in on the leadership
00:19:35.540
stuff at the start and he feels that he uh has the uh ability to stay on that you know they did raise
00:19:44.180
the number of votes he has the second as as a party leader they got the second most votes of any party
00:19:52.900
in canadian history yeah whatever they still lost the election he still lost his seat what do you think
00:19:58.740
is the guy who got the most is the guy in the aisle he's the prime minister and we'll dissect him in a
00:20:04.980
minute what do you think is going to happen in that leadership review to polio i think he's going to
00:20:10.420
go through it but i don't think it means his troubles are over what's your type definitely not definitely
00:20:16.500
not um if he gets another couple of floor crosses then i think he has real trouble at the leadership
00:20:23.860
review like if carney gets his majority i think he's got trouble staying on i know he says he can
00:20:31.060
um and that he's united on the issues and look there's a solid argument there they lost the
00:20:37.060
election they're winning on a lot of the issues as carney steals some but not all of his ideas or
00:20:42.340
implement some of them halfway but that doesn't mean you get to stay on as leaders so no more
00:20:50.500
floor crossers he passes the leadership review with flying colors i think if there's more floor
00:20:57.300
crossers he's going to have trouble but regardless if he survives it um you know that conservatives
00:21:04.660
adopted the reform act and tell people what that is in case they forgot that allows the party to
00:21:14.100
caucus members to house the leader in a vote and that's what happened to erin o'toole
00:21:19.780
and a lot of the people who were around uh were key organizers for paulia were key people that got
00:21:26.740
rid of the tool what's good for the goose is good for the gander all right so let's talk about the
00:21:32.500
beneficiary of all this and i think because he is going to get his two floor crossers at least i've
00:21:37.940
been told that they've got them in in the bag already and just waiting trying to figure out when
00:21:42.420
they're going to deploy them uh mark carney um mark carney was not prime minister wasn't even an elected
00:21:49.460
politician a year ago and um was part of an awkward and messy uh divorce between justin trudeau and
00:21:59.620
christopher freeland looked like he was the guy that trudeau wanted to bring in luckily for carney he didn't
00:22:06.660
come in at that point um i gotta say for a guy who you know notwithstanding the fact he doesn't have
00:22:13.140
a trade deal notwithstanding this that and the other thing for a guy's never been politics before
00:22:19.220
he's been pretty impressive at politics i did not think he had this in him what do you think
00:22:25.780
he's been good at the politics he hasn't been good at the policy um and i was hoping he'd be good at the
00:22:31.620
policy because the last guy was really good at politicking and hated governing um i don't think
00:22:37.700
that carney hates governing but for people that never realized it justin trudeau just like the
00:22:42.820
trappings of office he liked the pomp the circumstance the car the driver the house the adulation all of
00:22:50.580
that what he didn't like was actually doing stuff i think carney likes to do stuff but he just hasn't
00:22:57.220
figured out how yet he hasn't figured out how government works and neither of the people he
00:23:03.140
surrounded himself with they're trying but they're not there but the campaigning stuff you know you and
00:23:10.100
i thought he was more wooden than pierre pauliev and in some ways he is but he made it work for adapted
00:23:17.140
he adapted so quickly um he's doing okay in the house it's you know things like constantly
00:23:26.820
overhyping expectations uh you know he's doing his year-enders and saying well you know trade
00:23:32.420
deal was imminent with donald trump until doug ford's ad well we didn't hear that at the time mark
00:23:38.740
uh but we have heard plenty of times since late may that a trade deal is imminent it's just around the
00:23:45.460
corner and then nothing happens and you know he's done that on many issues where they overhype and
00:23:52.020
under deliver which is the reverse of political success so i don't believe him that he was close
00:23:58.020
plus the reporting was that it would be a tariff rate quota deal on steel which means we would be
00:24:05.060
allowed to export a certain amount of steel to the united states um at a 10 to 15 percent tariff and
00:24:12.100
anything above that would be 50 percent tariff um not exactly the elbows up deal that that he promised
00:24:19.860
sure likely it's likely where we're headed with any trade deal but not what he promised well you're
00:24:25.700
just giving him lots of cool you got to give him you and i both said the liberal party needed to move
00:24:30.500
back to the center he's done that hasn't he to a degree he goes part way like pierre pauliev keeps
00:24:39.140
saying steal my ideas and he does to a degree so he put bail reform on and like this this terror bus that
00:24:47.140
we saw in toronto this week the guy was out on bail for kidnapping and weapons charges that were laid
00:24:53.540
against him while he was on probation for other violent offenses that the police haven't specified
00:24:58.820
and now he's picked up on you know being a member of isis and one of his um co-conspirators is out on
00:25:04.740
bail already it's disgusting we need that bail reform and they promised it and then they took months to
00:25:10.980
deliver then they delivered it in october and then sent it to committee and haven't even called it
00:25:16.900
it's the liberals that chair that committee and get to call it so not even calling their own bill on
00:25:21.780
something that most canadians are getting really frustrated with no look look i give them kudos on
00:25:27.060
like getting rid of the consumer carbon tax that was smart politics i also think good policy some people
00:25:32.820
would argue but it's definitely good politics capital gains tax cut uh reversing the capital gains
00:25:39.300
and but then there's other you know true policies that he could have just walked away from and hasn't
00:25:47.220
um like the digital services tax um trump forced them to get rid of that we got nothing for it um that
00:25:55.060
was a really bad tax that you know didn't matter who was in the white house that was going to cause
00:25:59.460
us heartburn agreed uh because the the debt like i think it was this last week the uh uh it was a group of
00:26:08.660
republicans and democrats writing to canada together on a bunch of our online stuff they're really united
00:26:16.980
against us on some of the things we're doing like the online streaming act we're trying to use that to
00:26:21.940
make uh amazon prime pay into a fund that will pay for local tv news as if these guys are the broadcasters
00:26:30.340
like ctv of 50 years ago um these are bad trudeau era policies that he could get rid of the mou with
00:26:38.500
alberta i thought was really good i don't think we should need those things but you know if he's not
00:26:45.140
going to dump all of trudeau's policies at least he's saying okay we're going to exempt some projects
00:26:50.740
from them and that's a good idea but he he still hasn't delivered on on the big things that he's promised
00:26:57.940
and at a certain point he's going to have to final question who's the year's big political winner and
00:27:04.740
who is the big political loser well carny's obviously a big political winner because he's in the big chair
00:27:11.220
yeah um and the biggest political loser is a guy who's uh out doing mma fights and uh gets to spend
00:27:19.780
more time playing video games than uh than he did when he was leader of the ndp uh jack meet saying
00:27:25.620
decimated his own party uh you couldn't have done a better job if that was your your goal and i don't
00:27:31.940
think it was his goal uh i don't know if you saw the reports on their um campaign uh um autopsy
00:27:44.020
but one of the lines was that too many of the members of the ndp are allergic to fundraising
00:27:49.940
yeah and he was one of them well it's been quite a year man um lots ups and downs proverbial roller
00:27:58.820
coaster but it's been lots of fun for guys like you and me who get uh the privilege of commenting
00:28:04.100
on it so it's been a privilege having you on the show this year hopefully you're going to be back next
00:28:08.900
year um i will just don't get a bad sunburn down there i know you're celtic you're you got a celtic
00:28:15.220
countenance like me it you know i don't think i'm gonna have great weather while i'm here but i
00:28:20.340
will say that the you know the sky is lit now it's uh yeah sun's coming up it's been beautiful to watch
00:28:27.700
as we chatted damn you damn you well you enjoy every minute of it merry christmas and happy hanukkah
00:28:34.740
and everything else um have a wonderful time with family down there and maybe we'll talk next week
00:28:41.700
maybe we'll take a break but in the meantime thank you well merry christmas and happy hanukkah
00:28:46.980
it is the it's the last day it's the eighth day today like the menorah like the candles up all of them
00:29:25.460
don't let me hear that sweet kid's name get your hands on me and i'll drive you insane so
00:29:39.780
well i've been singing in the back of a limousine
00:29:47.060
well i may not hold it but it's bigger than you've ever seen
00:29:56.660
and you'll run around and think she's a star if you please she's a tease
00:30:00.020
you won't get far so tear me apart if you want to win my heart
00:30:08.900
i'll make you let me start shaking every time you hear my name
00:30:13.380
it will be so heartbreaking and you know you'll never be the same
00:30:27.540
cause she can't do the things that i can't do so
00:31:06.660
I'm gonna say goodbye to the nights of San Antonio
00:31:19.780
Now I don't even understand what they think they've seen
00:31:26.000
Cause I ain't seen nothing like the Texas cream
00:31:50.820
And we're back, we're back with our friend Karina Sud
00:31:52.960
And Karina is up in Ottawa. Is it cold? Is it freezing?
00:31:57.620
I'm still en route, so TBD, but I'm hoping not.
00:32:08.420
But I saw you with somebody who didn't look miserable
00:32:27.620
Well, the circumstances, that was a community menorah lighting
00:32:46.340
He has the opportunity for people to line up for a photo
00:33:14.320
You know, some of the clips that have circulated
00:48:10.620
There was a story that bubbled up to the surface that we carried over the finish line and about 15 people who were given their walking papers a week before Christmas.
00:48:23.180
And because of the attention that we brought to the story, they were able to keep their jobs.
00:48:29.620
But if we look at the flip side, we look at the other side of this, A&W restaurants in Quebec are saying that they're going to have to close because Quebecers don't want to work in fast food.
00:48:45.380
I worked at McDonald's and then I didn't eat at McDonald's for 25 years.
00:48:50.120
So, you know, I mean, they're not, they're tough jobs.
00:48:54.960
You know, I clean toilets at McDonald's, if you guys can picture that.
00:49:02.440
Not a lot of people want to take those jobs for minimum wage and working very hard.
00:49:12.220
And, you know, all of us know people who own restaurants and or run restaurants and places like that.
00:49:17.480
And they're all saying they're having a really tough time.
00:49:20.080
And some of them, sometimes they're having to close down early because they don't have anybody to fill those shifts.
00:49:26.180
You know, a lot of Canadians don't want to take those jobs.
00:49:32.060
So that's why I've been surprised by what Paulie has been saying about the program, about cancelling it entirely.
00:49:41.200
You know, I guess that that's appealing to the base, but it may not be helping a lot of these companies who rely on those workers.
00:49:50.340
I don't know what the solution is, but obviously we've got a problem.
00:49:55.760
When A&W says they can't find anybody in Quebec, Quebecers to work at their restaurants.
00:50:02.060
There's a part of me that just it just it doesn't resonate as it doesn't ring as entirely true.
00:50:07.440
I have no basis, in fact, to say that it just feels that like there of course there would be people in Quebec who would want a job.
00:50:17.280
Entry entry level jobs for kids in high school and early in college.
00:50:26.120
I you know, it's from the conversations I've had, Ben, I think that the sad part is kids don't seem to want to take these jobs anymore.
00:50:33.920
Like these used to be the entry level job for every kid.
00:50:39.260
But that was fine because you didn't have expenses.
00:50:41.140
There's a there's a huge disconnect we have in this country with young kids that don't want to take those jobs, whether, you know, they think they're below them or they're making money being a, you know, an influencer on their phone.
00:50:53.600
But then on the flip side, the other people that used to use those jobs, it's just that the cost of living in this country has gotten so high that you can't afford to work full time at a McDonald's and live in Canada.
00:51:10.340
I was talking to a good friend of mine who owns a restaurant up north of the city, and he was he was joking and kind of lamenting about the fact that once upon a time he was a top chef at a restaurant.
00:51:20.080
And he said, there's no way I'd go back to that lifestyle.
00:51:22.660
They were paying me thirty five thousand dollars to be the sous chef at one of the nicest restaurants in the city.
00:51:29.220
He's like, but that's the challenge restaurants face.
00:51:31.380
That's the challenge places like A&W faces what they can afford to pay them and then what they can afford to sell you the food at.
00:51:39.100
It just you know, it's it's a you know, we're hitting obstacles here.
00:51:44.320
Well, I want to spend a little bit of time talking about everybody's favorite floor crosser, Michael Ma.
00:51:48.320
He went from he went from being a conservative one day to a liberal the next.
00:51:53.380
And as I love saying that he got a standing ovation among in the liberal caucus as the only liberal who voted against the budget.
00:52:00.960
So that I find that to be just it's very twenty twenty five.
00:52:05.800
Let's listen to Michael Ma in his own words, because he was on CP24 yesterday talking about this very difficult decision he made.
00:52:13.360
This is a decisive moment for Canadian economy and in the nation as a whole.
00:52:21.100
And the night I attended the Conservative Party, I was truly a conservative member and an MP.
00:52:31.020
And so it wasn't until I had the opportunity to confirm my understanding of Prime Minister Carney's approach and his vision for Canada.
00:52:43.200
Of course, up to that point, I have reflected on a lot of the comments, as I said, from the people I have talked to in Markham Unionville and Canadians at large.
00:52:52.760
See, I think this explanation, Warren, makes things worse.
00:52:56.280
Firstly, it demonstrates that he was in his mind a conservative on one day and the next day became a liberal.
00:53:09.280
Perhaps I'm jaded by the political party and now I'm looking at this other party in a new light that none of that happened.
00:53:14.520
This was an immediate I'm a conservative one day, a liberal the next.
00:53:17.460
Also, because of that short time frame, his justification and explanation that he spoke with people doesn't make any sense.
00:53:26.660
Why would you be speaking with people if you were firmly a conservative on one day?
00:53:35.160
I could see people in PMO kind of reaching for a button when he was on the radio to try and get him to stop talking because he's just making it worse.
00:53:46.280
On the one hand, I'm extremely amused by the angst that conservatives are experiencing over this nobody that nobody could pick out of a police lineup before this week.
00:53:58.460
You know, politicians being self-interested stop the presses.
00:54:01.840
But on the other hand, more seriously, I've always felt, you know, for those Tories who became liberals and liberals who become Tories, because they go back and forth and new Democrats are in the on the party as well.
00:54:15.320
You know, people vote not for the person most of the time.
00:54:20.640
They're voting for the party and the party leader.
00:54:23.500
So, you know, I've always believed that if you decide you're going to do that on principle, well, on principle, you need to submit yourself to the people in a by-election and say, do you approve?
00:54:35.240
And who knows, maybe they will, but they don't do that and they don't submit themselves to the people to allow them to pass judgment.
00:54:43.580
And that's wrong because the constituents are the boss.
00:54:51.200
This is, listen, I just found out there are, there have been over 300 floor crossers since Confederation.
00:54:56.820
So this is, this is a thing that happens, happens a lot, and I don't like it.
00:55:01.240
I was talking with somebody else on another panel earlier this week when I pointed out that the NDP have a policy of not accepting any floor crossers.
00:55:09.020
And my guest said that would be like me having a policy against dating Taylor Swift.
00:55:13.820
It's just, it's not a, it just wouldn't happen.
00:55:19.200
But, but this, you know, we're getting into a really tricky territory.
00:55:23.060
And Chris, I'd love for you to start with this.
00:55:24.960
And, of course, we'll have a more fulsome conversation on the other side.
00:55:27.500
But Pierre Polyev is saying that, you know, if gaining a majority after the, after the voters told you that they only trusted you with a minority, he said that's an affront to democracy.
00:55:39.580
And just give me a couple of thoughts real quick, and then we'll talk about it on the other side.
00:55:44.320
I mean, listen, I, it's not, you know, it's politics.
00:55:55.060
You know, your local voters send whoever they send.
00:55:58.600
They're voting for who they want to be in office.
00:56:01.720
You know, it's, it's an attempt at trying to spin it.
00:56:07.120
You know, do I think it's, do I think this is how you should obtain a majority government?
00:56:11.740
But is there anything wrong with doing what they're doing?
00:56:15.160
I mean, get, get tougher control over your caucuses.
00:56:20.780
We're going to sink our teeth into that when we come back.
00:56:22.940
More with my panel on the Ben Mulroney Show next.
00:56:38.420
And I just checked my Twitter and apparently I've been, I'm being trolled by Warren Kinsellis.
00:56:43.980
This is 1983 vintage Aislinn mug, a cartoon of your dad, who he loved.
00:56:59.380
And so I'm toasting your dad and you with this tea.
00:57:06.240
And let's get back to the majority government that may happen by way of floor crosser.
00:57:12.480
And I want to humbly submit this counterpoint to you guys after what Chris just said.
00:57:18.680
There's no such thing as the Canadian voter that decided that the liberal government would
00:57:27.440
However, if we look back at the last minority government that we had under Justin Trudeau,
00:57:33.360
typically minority governments fall within 18 months, a little more than that sometimes.
00:57:38.320
And he spoke as a point of pride that it was the longest serving minority government in
00:57:43.640
And that's because he had the NDP in his back pocket.
00:57:48.980
And I think that was one of the reasons people were upset with that with that man and with
00:57:53.080
that government, because that was not what people gave him.
00:57:58.740
And the second time he decided to govern like he had a majority.
00:58:00.560
So from that perspective, I do think that that this switch over to a majority could rub
00:58:10.620
And I understand the justification or the explanation that it could be an affront to
00:58:23.500
And I do not want Mark Carney to have a majority government.
00:58:25.900
You know, I'd like to see us go back to the polls and give Pierre a chance to, you know,
00:58:31.880
My concern is when it came to Justin Trudeau, that was not going to happen.
00:58:36.460
There were not conservatives in that caucus that would even entertain the idea of leaving
00:58:40.460
to go join the Liberal caucus and to help Prime Minister Trudeau get closer.
00:58:45.200
He had to find his supply and confidence agreement with the NDP to try to govern.
00:58:50.860
And so I think there's different ways you can go about trying to get that kind of majority
00:58:57.660
Justin Trudeau took a different path, you know, forming his kind of coalition with Jagmeet
00:59:03.260
But I think my concern for Pierre Paul, we have in the conservatives right now is how are you
00:59:09.920
Because it's such a narrow margin between Mark Carney having a minority government and
00:59:19.100
It sounds like this aren't the only two, that there might be a couple more that are willing
00:59:23.400
And I think that's, from my perspective, as somebody who wants to see Pierre Paulie have
00:59:27.640
become the next Prime Minister, is you've got a problem with your caucus.
00:59:31.980
There are people, as the leader, you guys both know this, you sign the nomination papers.
00:59:41.740
You know, get control over these guys, because at the end of the day, it's them leaving you
00:59:45.700
that's going to give Mark Carney the next majority.
00:59:52.820
Everything that my friend Senator Chapin just said, and I suspect Mark Carney does too.
00:59:59.820
Now, like, you know, sometimes you can't tell, but like, I am a dirty, rotten liberal in
01:00:06.400
And like all dirty, rotten liberals, I believe the following about politics.
01:00:14.920
And everything else is noise and doesn't matter.
01:00:18.360
And the bottom line is Mark Carney, who's a newbie to federal politics, who none of us
01:00:24.180
thought would have the skill set he's showing, is winning.
01:00:28.380
And as Chris just pointed out, Pierre Paulie is losing.
01:00:32.060
These people would not be voting with their feet.
01:00:37.020
There are two more coming either after he gets through the leadership review or, you know,
01:00:42.780
The liberals are going to figure out a way to mess them up.
01:00:48.680
And, you know, it's happening because Pierre Paulie's leadership is uninspiring to a lot
01:00:56.760
And, you know, not you guys, but I hear from lots of conservatives, including people in
01:01:04.440
So he's going to get through the leadership review, but he's going to lose the next election.
01:01:08.280
So the conservative party's got to figure out what they're going to do.
01:01:10.860
My vote is for Ben Mulroney as the next conservative.
01:01:18.120
You know, one party that actually used to know a thing or two about winning was the
01:01:23.000
And the fact that their leader is stepping down after, what, six months at the helm?
01:01:29.400
Does that speak to a party that's on its last legs or needs to reinvent itself?
01:01:36.360
Well, I'm not a big fan of Pablo Rodriguez, so I wasn't surprised at all to see that happen
01:01:44.820
But I'm also Federalist, and I know you guys are too.
01:01:48.980
And, you know, this maybe improves Legault's position somewhat.
01:01:53.300
But it's bad for the country because the Piazza Quebecois are, have been ahead in the polls
01:02:03.180
So we're going to have a situation where we've got an Anglophone prime minister, whose French
01:02:08.900
is not as good as your dad's was, you know, facing off against a referendum they're promising
01:02:15.500
So that is my concern about the Quebec Liberal Party disappearing in the way that they're
01:02:21.500
Is it maybe it's bad for them, but it's also bad for the country?
01:02:24.720
Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, that additional dimension to it.
01:02:28.960
Chris, six months is not a long time to lead anything.
01:02:33.900
And there's there's no way that you can look at this as anything but a categorical and cataclysmic
01:02:43.680
I mean, if we go back, you know, five minutes to Warren talking about being a dirty, rotten
01:02:48.760
liberal and that the only thing matters that winning, sometimes they take it seriously and
01:02:52.940
forget that, you know, you know, envelopes of cash to party members is actually, in fact,
01:02:58.160
you know, not the appropriate thing to do to try to win, you know, win over hearts and
01:03:04.440
All I will say is, you know, hopefully there's some precedent that we saw here in Ontario back
01:03:09.880
We had a PC leader step down and Doug Ford became leader and three months later he became
01:03:14.960
So, you know, there there is a possibility to turn the ship around.
01:03:18.760
I think that's probably a once in a generation kind of outcome.
01:03:22.320
Yeah, I don't think that's probably going to happen in Quebec.
01:03:27.340
Because I think there is real concern and with the uncertainty across this country and everything
01:03:31.840
that's happening south of the border, the idea of, you know, the separatists being back
01:03:35.740
in charge of Quebec with an Anglophone leader, prime minister who openly talks about being
01:03:42.580
from Alberta, even though Alberta, you know, most of the time would rather give him back.
01:03:46.660
I think we have real cause for concern in this country.
01:03:49.820
I mean, it used to be a binary choice in Quebec.
01:03:51.840
You were either a federalist or you were a separatist and you knew exactly where you were
01:03:58.500
And things have gotten a lot more complicated there.
01:04:01.180
There's a lot more nuance and a lot more political dynamics at play, making it so that the resurgence
01:04:07.640
of the Liberal Party, I'm sure it will happen at some point, but it is not it is not inevitable
01:04:20.300
That's what guys like us always pay attention to.
01:04:27.060
You know, you should pay attention to polls over a long period of time.
01:04:30.840
And what the polls are showing over a long period of time is the Quebecers, while they
01:04:35.100
do not support sovereignty at the present time, do support the party that favors independence,
01:04:45.060
And the reason why I pointed out Carney is an Anglophone is, you know, guys like you, Ben,
01:04:50.940
in particular would know his French is not where it needs to be.
01:04:55.120
And a number of people have just written about that actually in the past few days.
01:04:58.620
He needs to be more conversant in our other official language.
01:05:03.620
And he's just lost, you know, Guibo was a disaster in terms of, you know, the energy
01:05:10.940
But he is a senior political figure in the province of Quebec.
01:05:14.860
So, you know, Carney needs to cast his mind ahead in 2026 to what's happening in Quebec.
01:05:20.020
And is he going to be ready for what's coming, which looks like a Pats-Quebecois government?
01:05:26.020
I mean, if he's going to be Captain Canada, he needs to be somebody who can, who Quebecers
01:05:34.100
You don't have to be from there, but you have to allow them to believe that you get them.
01:05:39.680
And I don't know if a Bay Street type is that kind of guy, but we'll have to see.
01:05:46.700
You've really made this show so much better than it could be without you.
01:05:51.040
I hope you both have a wonderful Christmas and holiday season.
01:05:56.180
And I look forward to seeing you again next week.
01:06:21.040
I love it when you tell me God is gay, that your hand was a metalhead back in the day.
01:06:48.240
I love it when you call me on the phone and tell me that you saw a UFO.
01:07:18.060
Everybody hates you, but in these five, just close your eyes and say...
01:07:24.240
I'm so fucking lucky you think you've just got my way.
01:07:37.800
You love the way I cut my hair, you love it when I say...
01:07:51.360
I love it when you tell me God is gay, that your hand was a metalhead back in the day.
01:08:00.080
I love it when you call me on the phone and tell me that you saw a UFO.
01:08:08.480
I love it when you call me on the phone and tell me that you saw a UFO.
01:08:17.480
I love it when you call me on the phone and tell me that you saw a UFO.
01:08:47.480
I love it when you call me on the phone and tell me on the phone and tell me...
01:08:50.480
I love it when you call me on the phone and tell me that you saw a UFO.
01:08:54.480
I say I need to remember it when I tell ciel3 that I say to child4 in my phone and tell my eyes.
01:09:01.040
I love it when I call me onentials and Prab spot.
01:09:04.100
And, bird for me on the phone, I'll come back and tell me your face.
01:09:14.040
I love it when I sent you key and me in my eyes.