KINSELLACAST 396： Daniel Rachel on Nazis and Rockers! Plus Lilley, Sa'd, Pierson, Smith and Thee Tabs, Co-Defendants, Wisp, Gladie, Sea Lemon, Daniel Romano
This Ain't Rock n' Roll, Pop Music, The Swastika and the Third Reich by Daniel R. Rachman, author of a new book about rock and roll and Nazi memorabilia, This Ain t Rock N' Roll: The Story of Rock and Roll's Nazi Symbols, is out now.
00:04:02.280Michael Jackson talking about kikes, quote-unquote.
00:04:07.100Zeppelin's Jimmy Page, who is a piece of shit and would wear Nazi uniforms, and recently talked about it, wearing his Stormtrooper outfit on his Instagram page.
00:04:17.840Madonna saying Jews of the Synagogue of Satan.
00:04:21.020Keith Moon of The Who, formerly of The Who, doing Nazi uniforms and salutes.
00:04:27.980Of course, Motorhead's Lemmy, doing the same sort of thing.
00:04:31.500He was actually quite open about it, collecting a vast amount of Nazi memorabilia.
00:04:38.160The dolls, New York dolls, with the SS Death's Head design on stage.
00:04:43.920Roger Waters, of course, is an anti-Semite.
00:04:47.080Didi Ramon broke my heart, saying he's fascinated by Nazi symbols.
00:04:50.980And then, of course, the many, many artists, Sid Vicious, Marilyn Manson, Johnny Rotten, Susie Sue, wearing swastika arm bands.
00:15:31.540the coming race and the homo superior and himless sacred realm.
00:15:36.420And Bowie was making comments from the late sixties all the way through into the eighties to reference his fascination with the third right with Nazism.
00:16:30.020which was to accept that he was on cocaine and not,
00:16:33.200not in control of his faculties and therefore why he might be making comments about Adolf Hitler being the first rock and roll superstar or the,
00:16:40.920the coming of a new Hitler for Britain,
00:18:09.860could you trace the area and race back to Atlantis or these kinds of ideas that the SS and Himmler were exploring and he was looking into too.
00:18:19.720But he never really talked again to my knowledge about his fascination with Goebbels and those kinds of elements.
00:22:07.520or listeners will know when he invited cameras into his LA house for his documentary,
00:22:11.760he happily showed them all of his collection,
00:22:15.740which was vast swastika flags on the wall and all kinds of military paraphernalia dressed up in his SS uniform and went off in a German 1930s tank.
00:30:56.660there was a greater momentum and knowledge.
00:30:59.880And this is kind of backed up by incredible statistics that I learned that it was not until 1991 in the UK that the Holocaust was taught on,
00:57:15.000So, the obvious question, maybe not so obvious, but in the United States, these protests against, on the issue of immigration as well, have resulted now this week in the tragic, in my view, death of a mother who was shot by an ICE officer.
00:57:41.000And it has resulted in hundreds of protests involving thousands and thousands of people across the United States.
00:57:47.880You've been warning people on this podcast and elsewhere that Canada seems to be heading in to that sort of direction.
00:57:58.060Is that still your view? Do you think that we are at risk of that kind of tragic outcome?
00:58:04.460I do. Unfortunately, I do believe that that is the case.
00:58:10.460I will say that even if we bring it back to yesterday for a second, even though that was more decisive and dramatic than we've seen, it still doesn't rise to the level of violence that occurs in the US.
00:58:28.080So, we are a different landscape in Canada. It's not identical.
00:58:32.080But the underlying factors are all present.
00:58:38.080And, you know, there's so much that's striking about this situation in the US.
00:58:43.460So, first and foremost, and I think this is an observation I've made before, people are watching the same video and having completely different takeaways on culpability, on the significance of words uttered, on, you know,
00:59:04.340to describe a state of mind to the human involved in what would have been an extremely high-pressure situation with snap-second judgments and, you know,
00:59:17.920the court of public opinion in some ways imitates a court of law where people will pull out evidence and make their arguments,
00:59:27.400but not always with the context of this, this is happening in the span of a few seconds, right?
00:59:36.880And there's lead-up to it and there's context that's relevant, but that, you know, everyone is coming away with different takeaways, even though we're looking at the same sources.
00:59:47.140And part of why I think that something similar could happen in Canada is we have a normalized sense of defiance toward authority, toward law enforcement,
01:00:05.640where a very high level of flagrant disrespect has been tolerated.
01:00:12.740And there's also people who are on a steady diet of existential crisis and believing themselves to be actual, literal soldiers on a front line, right?
01:00:28.380Fighting these big ideological battles.
01:00:31.940And, you know, that has to do with being heavily online, the information that's consumed online, being in echo chambers.
01:00:42.060It warped anger, absolutely, a diet of fear and anger and, at times, hate, and that warped people's minds.
01:00:53.420And, you know, that's evident in what played out, but also in the reaction to what has played out and just the lack of, unfortunately, humanity in what I agree with you is a tragic situation, right?
01:01:20.060I mean, you've represented plaintiff, you've represented defendants, you've done criminal practice, and, of course, you're watching all of these things develop more closely than anybody I know in the world.
01:01:33.660So, you've seen, I presume, you've seen, I presume, some of the video, maybe all of the video coming out of Minneapolis.
01:01:41.260What was your reaction to it as a lawyer and as a person?
01:01:45.920So, my thoughts are jumbled on this because there are so many things that come to mind.
01:01:57.240You know, first, it is irresponsible for activist groups to encourage supporters to take on actions that put them in the line of fire by law enforcement.
01:02:13.160To assume that law enforcement won't take drastic steps is a disservice to people who maybe are well-intentioned and want to do good.
01:02:26.600So, all of these Tumblr-style bullet lists of, you know, encouraging obstruction, encouraging de-arrest, that culture needs to be addressed, is my first thought.
01:02:45.540Because there were clearly orders to get out of the car, and kind of not just an unwillingness to do that, but, you know, you see the car move.
01:02:56.560And it's impossible to know what was in the, what was in her state, like her state of mind in the moment, right?
01:03:09.380We do know that in the lead-up to this, the vehicle had been blocking the street for at least three minutes.
01:03:16.740That's not a capital offence, but an officer who perceives themselves to be in line of being mowed down, whether or not that was the actual intent, if it is subjectively and objectively, if that fear is reasonable, I think that a lot of deference will be afforded to that officer.
01:03:42.320And we're already seeing those signals from the highest levels of authority in the U.S. government that they are standing behind this ICE agent, who apparently had been in a separate, unrelated incident involving a vehicle.
01:04:00.000And that would have informed his understanding of what's happening, I think.
01:04:04.860So, ultimately, what's the upshot here?
01:04:10.200I do think that self-defense will come into play, you know, in justifying or attempting to justify this use of force.
01:04:22.060And because one of the parties was in uniform, the law, there are so many presumptions that already are in their favor.
01:04:34.640So, that will be a tough pill to overcome from the side representing the interests of the deceased.
01:04:43.400But it looked to me like, you know, and again, we're all being Reddit warriors here looking at videotape and it's partial and, you know, it's just a fraction of the evidence.
01:04:56.180It's the, you know, the fucking bitch after she's been shot and his position vis-a-vis the vehicle and so on.
01:05:07.680I mean, I agree with you, self-defense is going to come into play, but it doesn't look like it would totally exonerate his actions.
01:05:14.320Again, I think it will depend on his subjective state of mind and whether that was objectively reasonable in the circumstances.
01:05:27.840It's one thing for us to have access to multiple angles and to parse it out and to do slow-mo and look, her wheels were actually turning.
01:05:38.640She was trying to drive away from him, you know, and everything like that.
01:05:43.580The parties involved would have seen it from one angle in real time and that's it.
01:05:50.840That's what would have informed everything that that transpired.
01:05:56.820So, I do think that there is a case there for self-defense.
01:06:02.200And, you know, in an ideal world, this does actually play out in court.
01:06:08.320So, all of these theories and arguments can be tested and decided upon by a judge to kind of, it won't lay everything to rest, but at least it will create a proper public record.
01:06:24.380Well, we will see in the coming months, God knows, we're going to be hearing a lot more about this case and hopefully not others, but I suspect you're right.
01:06:34.300I think that people are just getting angrier and feeling more and more licensed to have these types of clashes and it's not good for society.