KINSELLACAST 396： Daniel Rachel on Nazis and Rockers! Plus Lilley, Sa'd, Pierson, Smith and Thee Tabs, Co-Defendants, Wisp, Gladie, Sea Lemon, Daniel Romano
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 29 minutes
Words per minute
133.54156
Harmful content
Misogyny
12
sentences flagged
Toxicity
36
sentences flagged
Hate speech
33
sentences flagged
Summary
This Ain't Rock n' Roll, Pop Music, The Swastika and the Third Reich by Daniel R. Rachman, author of a new book about rock and roll and Nazi memorabilia, This Ain t Rock N' Roll: The Story of Rock and Roll's Nazi Symbols, is out now.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
It's the KinsellaCast starring Warren Kinsella.
00:00:19.240
I'm going to get right into it because we've got a big, big show for you today.
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We've got Brian Milley, Kareem Asad, Alex Pearson,
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some other stuff that is happening, some other talk stuff.
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But most particularly, most importantly, Daniel Rachel,
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who is the author of a new book I picked up when I was in Britain
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called This Ain't Rock and Roll, Pop Music, The Swastika and the Third Reich.
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It's coming out in North America shortly, and it's really, really important.
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Talking about rock and roll, I've got a number of bands that I'm going to be playing for you.
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Echo Disc by the band The Tabs, and it's from their 2023 album, Temporal Space Machine.
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They're from Edinburgh, and just a great sound, great band.
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They've got Fat Mike is in this band, and it's pretty tough.
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It's actually timely, given the fact that we're going to be talking about Minneapolis.
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It's like Echo and the Bunnymen and Interpol and Ian Curtis's voice.
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It's a debut single by a solo project called Wisp, with a period, not Wisp, the female artist.
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Kind of melodic, Britpop, hybrid stuff, led by a musician named Per Lindquist.
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Then I've got Gladie, who I've seen, actually I saw last year, saw her opening for Jeff Rosenstock.
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She's from Philly, and got a great tune from her called Car Alarm.
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Then I've got Sea Lemon, who I played before, with the song Crystals.
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And Sea Lemon is kind of a solo project, really, by Natalie Liu, who is based in Seattle.
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Then I've got Daniel Romano, and he is a Canadian boy, so we've got to support him.
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Poet, visual artist in Welland, and got a song, and I don't know how he pronounces this.
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It's not like it sounds, but it's a great, great tune.
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So, some good music, and a show that's a lot about music, because I'm talking to Daniel Rachel in a minute.
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And as you'll hear from him, and in his book, 400 pages, it is depressing as hell.
00:03:11.560
John Lennon making Nazi salutes on stage, sort of Mick Jagger.
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Both of them in Berlin, by the way, which is illegal.
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They had a cutout of Hitler on the cover of Sgt. Pepper.
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You couldn't really see it, because it was in behind the bend.
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Debbie Harry of Blondie saying, why can't she see Kyle?
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Eric Clapton, who's always been a fucking douchebag, talking about, here's a quote, get the wogs out, get the coons out, end quote.
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He said that on stage, and he would wear a Nazi iron cross around his neck because he liked the design.
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Joe Walsh, similarly, from the Eagles, saying he likes to collect Nazi things, and he doesn't care about the ethics of it.
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Kiss, of course, who had the Schutzstaffel SS in their logo, and Ace Frehley was the source of that.
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Michael Jackson talking about kikes, quote-unquote.
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Zeppelin's Jimmy Page, who is a piece of shit and would wear Nazi uniforms, and recently talked about it, wearing his Stormtrooper outfit on his Instagram page.
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Madonna saying Jews of the Synagogue of Satan.
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Keith Moon of The Who, formerly of The Who, doing Nazi uniforms and salutes.
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Of course, Motorhead's Lemmy, doing the same sort of thing.
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He was actually quite open about it, collecting a vast amount of Nazi memorabilia.
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The dolls, New York dolls, with the SS Death's Head design on stage.
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Didi Ramon broke my heart, saying he's fascinated by Nazi symbols.
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And then, of course, the many, many artists, Sid Vicious, Marilyn Manson, Johnny Rotten, Susie Sue, wearing swastika arm bands.
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When I was talking to Daniel Rachel, he pointed out the Joy Division poster behind me.
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And Daniel's going to talk about that in the interview.
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And it's just, and he talks about it in the book, too.
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Anyway, I think it's really important because popular culture has a huge impact on people, particularly young people.
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But in the meantime, thank you and welcome to the Kinsella Cast.
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thank you so much for agreeing to speak with me.
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Pop Music, The Swastika in the Third Reich,
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Can you tell me a little bit more about your background?
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and how you came to be involved in this subject?
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Well, I was a musician for a good couple of decades.
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I guillotined that career when I started writing books,
00:12:16.500
and it simply had the strap line on their spine,
00:12:22.700
and she said that we can watch this together at some time,
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And so it's hidden on the top shelf of a high bookcase.
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the first time they went out shopping on a Saturday afternoon,
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And I watched what I remember being an hour of compiled footage
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and those images have indelibly pressed onto my mind ever since,
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but that coupled with culture and singing Belsum was a gas
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and having images of Sid Vicious wearing a swastika T-shirt,
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I guess the biggest disappointment I got was Bowie,
00:14:14.880
as I was going through what you documented in the book,
00:14:21.140
What was the surprise to you as you were doing the research here,
00:14:31.500
We're not going to be selling many books on the back of that.
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because it incorporates a history of persecution against Jewish people during the 1930s,
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those histories are only presented when they're relevant to the actions,
00:15:11.420
And David Bowie is certainly an artist that I've loved throughout my life.
00:15:31.540
the coming race and the homo superior and himless sacred realm.
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And Bowie was making comments from the late sixties all the way through into the eighties to reference his fascination with the third right with Nazism.
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I think is people want to think the best of our heroes.
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And the one thing that I didn't do when I wrote this book was to make any form of assumption.
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So the assumption that David Bowie was on cocaine and didn't really know what he was saying or doing was really fascinating to look into.
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which was to accept that he was on cocaine and not,
00:16:33.200
not in control of his faculties and therefore why he might be making comments about Adolf Hitler being the first rock and roll superstar or the,
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Then we must also disregard virtually every record he made in this period because he didn't have control of what he was writing,
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And it was a deep flirtation or that infiltrated every part of his creative output.
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whether it was apparently Zeig Heilig at Victoria station in London or,
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his collection being found by the Russian police KGB.
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he apologized or tried to make sense of it and particularly did so into the nineties.
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did the Nazis come to the Glastonbury tour and was the,
00:18:09.860
could you trace the area and race back to Atlantis or these kinds of ideas that the SS and Himmler were exploring and he was looking into too.
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But he never really talked again to my knowledge about his fascination with Goebbels and those kinds of elements.
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the one thing you use the word flirtation and that was the excuse given to you.
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a lot of them disappeared behind their public relations people.
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many of them would say to you or to other writers,
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Because you heard that excuse many times in your,
00:19:18.640
the most typical one coming from Malcolm McLaren,
00:19:33.320
the common excuse was to say that we wanted to demystify.
00:20:00.960
somebody like Susie Sue would be saying that we're fed up of people talking about the war.
00:20:08.380
they were released in singles talking about elements of the war,
00:20:20.620
the German nation in the thirties needing iron ore,
00:20:25.060
which is a very nuanced understanding of a German social history.
00:20:29.460
And yet that was part of the lyric writing of her.
00:20:35.120
And yet they talked about influential films like the Night Porter or Salon Kitty,
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in Berlin that high ranking officials used to use and was manned by Heydrich and his cronies,
00:20:52.240
such things like this and their own obsession in their own,
00:21:00.620
but at the same time saying that they didn't like British television showing endless comedies or war films.
00:21:16.960
it was a problem on this side of the pond as well with Kiss and like Patty Smith,
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what you found about Patty Smith was so disappointing.
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half the band was Jewish and they were just idiotic about some of these issues.
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we've got a black member or we've got a Jewish manager like Danny Fields or what have you.
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How many of them did you find would attempt to use that,
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who again was another person with a huge Nazi memorabilia collection that he openly flaunted.
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or listeners will know when he invited cameras into his LA house for his documentary,
00:22:15.740
which was vast swastika flags on the wall and all kinds of military paraphernalia dressed up in his SS uniform and went off in a German 1930s tank.
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he never really offered excuses or justification or explained why he did all of this stuff.
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and this echoes what was happening in Britain in the late seventies and early eighties,
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in its purest form was not directed at black people.
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It was directed primarily at Jewish people and,
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they're talked about by Hitler and Mein Kampf,
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the killing regime that was the Third Reich.
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I think about when Jewish people in rock and roll history have used the swastika,
00:23:37.240
the Ramones and having a Jewish manager and many,
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is that how you pronounce it when somebody who becomes obsessional about Judaism,
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in a lot of the vocabulary she used in the early seventies.
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and grew up and was bar mitzvah and grew up in a community in North London amongst Jewish people.
00:24:17.860
was the person that introduced the swastika to punk at the same time,
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grandparents who were survivors and also victims of the Holocaust.
00:24:33.480
and that early co-management of the sex pistols broke up over the use of the swastika.
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it's very hard to kind of reconcile or understand why that happens.
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and I certainly share the sentiment is so few writers and journalists and commentators,
00:25:03.000
cause all of this stuff was happening in plain view.
00:25:06.640
Susie was wearing swastika armbands from the very start.
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one of the major themes of the book and the book is not only about us as fans,
00:25:43.180
And nobody operates in a silo in the music industry.
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directly to the swastika artists with no explanation.
00:26:27.660
according to the color of somebody's skin or misogyny since the death of George Floyd,
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if we took away the swastika and replaced it with an image of a lynching of a black person and a South say,
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And you get into the whole area of people being canceled.
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If there was images of a woman being raped or attacked by a man,
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these are things that are not acceptable anymore in rock and roll.
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which caused a huge furore for a couple of days because they,
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last a couple of days and it seems to have disappeared again.
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I know that one concert of Primal Screen scheduled for next,
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but it'd be really interesting to see how that now plays out.
00:28:11.380
And he was challenged by the leader of the opposition to say,
00:28:22.280
knowing what it was only for it to be discovered.
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He talked about it several years earlier and no,
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you've got a certain amount of publicity because of 24 hour news.
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is very compelling when we know what then subsequently happened on Bondi
00:28:51.900
beach and the accusations of last large sways of the Jewish community to
00:29:01.860
the demand of their government to step up and increase measures to prevent any
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there's one of the great atrocities the country's ever experienced.
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don't have the greatest grasp of public affairs.
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the excuse that you see in the book and that you hear periodically is,
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and actually I've heard this from Jewish survivors of the Holocaust.
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it becomes harder for people to realize the reality of it.
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is that a legitimate excuse playing devil's advocate for rock and rollers that,
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I think that the knowledge of the atrocities of the third Reich and the death camps,
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particularly extermination camps was not common knowledge or up to a certain point in rock and roll history.
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And we can loosely put that to maybe the late seventies,
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the NBC and NBC drama Holocaust starring Meryl Streep that had a profound influence,
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when the series came to the UK and to Germany was seen by millions and millions of people.
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And this is kind of backed up by incredible statistics that I learned that it was not until 1991 in the UK that the Holocaust was taught on,
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It was still not across the UK was not in Wales Island or Scotland,
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it took 40 over 40 years since the Nuremberg trials,
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why 6 million people were murdered under the Nazi regime and all the other minorities,
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And then we also get into another extraordinary statistic,
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which is Holocaust Remembrance Day was not introduced into the UK and into the,
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less than half of the States in the U S teach the Holocaust.
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Now that explains a lot to me when you get musicians who are using the symbols,
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the dead boys did turning up a studio with Genia Ravan,
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And she refused to do it because there was a swastika on their,
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why is it not being taught mandatory to every single child that goes through an
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educational system in any country in the world?
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that's how I make sense to a great degree of why many musicians don't even
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the posters they have on their walls are not of Keir Starmer or Mark Carney or
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all the bands that I loved when I was growing up.
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And how do you educate the musicians to educate the millions and millions of
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people who follow them and listen to their every word and their every utterance?
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How do you educate them apart from getting them to read your excellent book?
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I'm sitting here talking to you and I can see a Joy Division poster behind you.
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You're advertising a brothel in Auschwitz,
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where there was legalized rape by the sanction by the state.
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it's about saying that rock and roll's made mistakes.
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we've reconciled or rock and roll is reconciling itself with racism and misogyny,
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And I think if that was to be widely acknowledged,
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of how we contextualize the use of names and images,
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I'm certainly not advocating for the burning of records.
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as the one thing that's really come to light since the publication of this
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just a couple of months before it comes out in the States is people saying,
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I didn't realize how far reaching this was when you compile it all together.
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And I think that's hopefully what the power of the book is to say,
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when you do contextualize it and put everything together and you see a pattern emerging as you do,
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seen that and noticed the extent to which it's at.
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It's collectively all of us who belong to rock and roll.
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we are all culpable and are all responsible for leading us into a more positive direction.
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but there are a couple of chapters of a lot of positivity in there by many,
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many artists who have talked in brilliant ways.
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about these issues from the Indigo Girls to Frank,
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So, the obvious question, maybe not so obvious, but in the United States, these protests against, on the issue of immigration as well, have resulted now this week in the tragic, in my view, death of a mother who was shot by an ICE officer.
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And it has resulted in hundreds of protests involving thousands and thousands of people across the United States.
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You've been warning people on this podcast and elsewhere that Canada seems to be heading in to that sort of direction.
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Is that still your view? Do you think that we are at risk of that kind of tragic outcome?
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I do. Unfortunately, I do believe that that is the case.
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I will say that even if we bring it back to yesterday for a second, even though that was more decisive and dramatic than we've seen, it still doesn't rise to the level of violence that occurs in the US.
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So, we are a different landscape in Canada. It's not identical.
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And, you know, there's so much that's striking about this situation in the US.
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So, first and foremost, and I think this is an observation I've made before, people are watching the same video and having completely different takeaways on culpability, on the significance of words uttered, on, you know,
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to describe a state of mind to the human involved in what would have been an extremely high-pressure situation with snap-second judgments and, you know,
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the court of public opinion in some ways imitates a court of law where people will pull out evidence and make their arguments,
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but not always with the context of this, this is happening in the span of a few seconds, right?
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And there's lead-up to it and there's context that's relevant, but that, you know, everyone is coming away with different takeaways, even though we're looking at the same sources.
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And part of why I think that something similar could happen in Canada is we have a normalized sense of defiance toward authority, toward law enforcement,
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where a very high level of flagrant disrespect has been tolerated.
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And there's also people who are on a steady diet of existential crisis and believing themselves to be actual, literal soldiers on a front line, right?
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And, you know, that has to do with being heavily online, the information that's consumed online, being in echo chambers.
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It warped anger, absolutely, a diet of fear and anger and, at times, hate, and that warped people's minds.
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And, you know, that's evident in what played out, but also in the reaction to what has played out and just the lack of, unfortunately, humanity in what I agree with you is a tragic situation, right?
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There's no real winners in this, you know, and, yeah, there's no real winners in this.
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I mean, you've represented plaintiff, you've represented defendants, you've done criminal practice, and, of course, you're watching all of these things develop more closely than anybody I know in the world.
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So, you've seen, I presume, you've seen, I presume, some of the video, maybe all of the video coming out of Minneapolis.
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What was your reaction to it as a lawyer and as a person?
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So, my thoughts are jumbled on this because there are so many things that come to mind.
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You know, first, it is irresponsible for activist groups to encourage supporters to take on actions that put them in the line of fire by law enforcement.
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To assume that law enforcement won't take drastic steps is a disservice to people who maybe are well-intentioned and want to do good.
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So, all of these Tumblr-style bullet lists of, you know, encouraging obstruction, encouraging de-arrest, that culture needs to be addressed, is my first thought.
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Because there were clearly orders to get out of the car, and kind of not just an unwillingness to do that, but, you know, you see the car move.
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And it's impossible to know what was in the, what was in her state, like her state of mind in the moment, right?
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We do know that in the lead-up to this, the vehicle had been blocking the street for at least three minutes.
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That's not a capital offence, but an officer who perceives themselves to be in line of being mowed down, whether or not that was the actual intent, if it is subjectively and objectively, if that fear is reasonable, I think that a lot of deference will be afforded to that officer.
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And we're already seeing those signals from the highest levels of authority in the U.S. government that they are standing behind this ICE agent, who apparently had been in a separate, unrelated incident involving a vehicle.
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And that would have informed his understanding of what's happening, I think.
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I do think that self-defense will come into play, you know, in justifying or attempting to justify this use of force.
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And because one of the parties was in uniform, the law, there are so many presumptions that already are in their favor.
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So, that will be a tough pill to overcome from the side representing the interests of the deceased.
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But it looked to me like, you know, and again, we're all being Reddit warriors here looking at videotape and it's partial and, you know, it's just a fraction of the evidence.
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It's the, you know, the fucking bitch after she's been shot and his position vis-a-vis the vehicle and so on.
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I mean, I agree with you, self-defense is going to come into play, but it doesn't look like it would totally exonerate his actions.
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Again, I think it will depend on his subjective state of mind and whether that was objectively reasonable in the circumstances.
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It's one thing for us to have access to multiple angles and to parse it out and to do slow-mo and look, her wheels were actually turning.
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She was trying to drive away from him, you know, and everything like that.
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The parties involved would have seen it from one angle in real time and that's it.
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That's what would have informed everything that that transpired.
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So, I do think that there is a case there for self-defense.
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And, you know, in an ideal world, this does actually play out in court.
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So, all of these theories and arguments can be tested and decided upon by a judge to kind of, it won't lay everything to rest, but at least it will create a proper public record.
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Well, we will see in the coming months, God knows, we're going to be hearing a lot more about this case and hopefully not others, but I suspect you're right.
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I think that people are just getting angrier and feeling more and more licensed to have these types of clashes and it's not good for society.
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So, but I thank you for keeping an eye on it for us and for giving us your insights.
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Organizing all those things that you disliked about me
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Never had a smile that lit up every room that I came into
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If my eulogy reads like a scene from some bad Hollywood movie
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Nothing's except the joy of life quite like truth
01:09:07.920
I've broken and defeated for no particular reason
01:09:11.920
If I'm okay on the day I die it will be self-explanatory
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Nothing's except the joy of life quite like truth
01:09:35.200
If I'm okay on the day I die it will be self-explanatory
01:09:42.200
Nothing's except the joy of life quite like truth
01:09:54.200
Turning pipe dreams into pipe bombs with you
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And we're going to get right to it with Warren Kinsella
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Postmedium columnist as well as author of the upcoming book
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The Information War and the Rise of Anti-Semitic Propaganda
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No worries it was harder to get you on the line than my ex-girlfriend
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I just want to ask you about your initial reaction
01:10:46.200
What I saw was those agents telling her to leave
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And I mean we're going to have a full investigation
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But you know they can decide with their own eyes
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Yeah you know we've had a lot of different opinions
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Is that everyone who comes to talk about the video
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Has a very different way about talking about it
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And I guess you've been involved you know for a long time in politics
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Have you ever seen there be a bigger political divide right now
01:11:33.200
In the United States than between the right and the left
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And as you know like full disclosure I volunteered for Biden
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So I'm you know I'm not completely objective on the subject
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And you know this this woman was a poet and a mom
01:12:08.200
The video that's going out majority is from the rear version
01:12:15.200
Where you do clearly see her hitting him before
01:12:23.200
Yeah but you don't you don't drive your car towards a police officer
01:12:38.200
Not the way that we're seeing the one from the rear view
01:12:40.200
Which is her pulling out and not making contact with the police officer
01:12:47.200
I think the life the loss of life is is is horrible
01:12:50.200
I just think that you know in the rush for media to get this story out
01:12:53.200
It's inflamed this up to a point where it's gone
01:13:00.200
I I think the loss of life is absolutely horrible on every level
01:13:04.200
I I'm not a police officer I couldn't have made that decision
01:13:08.200
That's where my moral compass stands where it's I don't know
01:13:11.200
I'm not in that I I would hate to be a police officer making that choice
01:13:16.200
I would hate that you know I I police officers they're ice agents
01:13:20.200
Right but they don't even have formal training the police officers do
01:13:24.200
And you talk to any cop you know who's had training
01:13:27.200
They will say no you're not supposed to do that when you
01:13:30.200
Well we did have two cops on today that both said that you know
01:13:33.200
Hank and Zygna and Ron Chinzer were both on saying that they conducted themselves properly
01:13:37.200
Well shame on them because I disagree I don't think that woman deserved to die to be shot in the face
01:13:45.200
Yeah no and it's a fair point everyone has to everyone has jumped on this one like it's
01:13:50.200
But this is what the US does right they do it better than everyone they take a situation like this
01:13:55.200
And then they divide it down the middle there's a line in the sand and then no one is pouring water on it
01:14:03.200
Well I mean this is a consequence of them electing Donald Trump
01:14:08.200
He you know is actually just doing what he said he was going to do
01:14:12.200
He said he would send the military send police into major cities
01:14:21.200
And everybody was warned that this would happen
01:14:26.200
But most tragically the one who's paid the ultimate price is a mother
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01:14:31.200
Who did nothing wrong other than try and leave the scene after being told to do so
01:14:35.200
See I agree with your statement outside of the nothing wrong because I don't know that so I can't make that
01:14:41.200
But it is tragic that a mother was shot dead 100% I'll agree with that
1.00
01:16:49.200
The joy of what you're feeling, right, wide, wide
01:17:00.200
Outside, outside, outside, outside, outside, outside, outside, outside
01:17:11.200
I know what brings you under, she screams at me from outside
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01:17:56.200
I want to bring in Warren Kinsella to the conversation,
01:18:19.360
president of Daisy Group, former political strategist for Jean Chrétien
01:18:22.700
and author of a new book coming out very, very, very shortly,
01:18:26.680
The Hidden Hand, which will be extremely revealing.
01:18:33.020
When does that come out? What's the day? It should be soon, right?
01:18:35.180
Next month. It comes out next month. I can't believe it's happening.
01:18:39.060
So it's coming out as e-book first, and then the hardcover shortly thereafter
01:18:46.280
It's like it's so much work to get these things going,
01:18:48.920
and then it's like you get it done. It's a lot of work.
01:18:51.340
So congratulations. But it's also timely. It's also very important work.
01:18:55.440
But we've talked about, you know, the funding of protests, right?
01:18:59.920
We've talked about, and you certainly revealed it.
01:19:04.440
My question is, though, Warren, is that we've got all these pop-up protests,
01:19:07.980
and it doesn't seem to matter the cause or the cost or the propaganda,
01:19:11.840
which it's spreading. It is being protected in this country by a charter.
01:19:14.840
It is. And, you know, protests are legitimate and are protected by Section 2 of the Charter
01:19:22.480
and, you know, the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. That's all fine.
01:19:26.940
But, you know, the column I wrote for Post Media, and actually the book, too,
01:19:32.820
talks about this, is we need to pay attention to what's happening in our streets
01:19:38.040
Because these people who hate democracy, they hate the West, they hate Israel,
01:19:43.280
they hate the governments of Canada and the United States,
01:19:48.620
They'll say that. Like, they're quite honest about it.
01:19:51.380
And, like, Alex, they're getting way better at what they're doing.
01:19:56.440
So the invasion, or the incursion, rather, into Venezuela to get Maduro,
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01:20:02.080
who is a war criminal and an abuser of human rights.
01:20:12.300
Almost immediately, this far-left, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, anti-U.S. fringe
01:20:23.700
And within 10 minutes, they had started to plan a rally
01:20:29.420
that would take place in Times Square that same morning.
01:20:32.580
Like, that's organization. Like, that is organizational skill
01:20:36.860
that, you know, some political parties don't possess.
01:20:43.300
We saw it against in the environmental movement, right,
01:20:45.260
where you get these very kind of tough people and very strong,
01:20:48.980
backed by very big millionaires, billionaires who have the money,
01:20:54.220
But in this case, we're talking, like, funded by, what, China?
01:20:57.640
Maybe by Iran, maybe the Muslim Brotherhood.
0.81
01:21:00.260
These are, you know, countries that are interfering,
01:21:03.740
and those who are funding these things are working against our interests, right?
01:21:11.600
And so the banker, you know, for the anti-Israel stuff
01:21:17.080
The campaign manager always for all of this stuff is Iran,
01:21:21.180
although they're tied up with a problem of their own domestically at the moment.
01:21:25.480
Albeit, albeit, can I just step in there, Warren?
01:21:27.460
Because don't forget, Qatar, apparently, Anita Annan says,
01:21:30.760
And I would point out, Iran's people who are fighting for their lives in the streets,
01:21:35.280
where are all the protesters here who you would think would be supporting them, right?
01:21:43.660
And then on the front line, you know, these, the banker and the campaign manager,
01:21:47.840
all these people, the Russia and China, who act as an echo chamber for this stuff,
01:21:53.220
are Hezbollah and Hamas, and then individuals in Canada and the United States
01:22:01.540
And in the case of Canada, you know, we had protests happening the same...
01:22:06.140
Like, before Majuro was even arraigned in Manhattan,
01:22:10.420
there were protests taking, well-organized protests with signage and organizers
01:22:14.960
and all the bells and whistles were taking place in Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, and Montreal
01:22:20.040
within 24 hours of Majuro being taken out of Venezuela.
01:22:26.520
That suggests a degree of organization, an organizational skill,
01:22:32.800
No, but you know what? Kareem Assad certainly has been out there doing the work of, like, 50 newsrooms.
01:22:38.660
Like, literally, what she has done and documented,
01:22:40.980
I think, I don't think we realize how valuable it will be
01:22:43.760
because she has documented from the start and been able to find groups.
01:22:47.440
And she doesn't weigh in on her opinion on them, but she's laying out the facts, right?
01:22:56.000
And the question then becomes, Warren, who's going to do something about it?
01:23:01.780
I mean, there are very real divisions, very real costs.
01:23:05.100
And the fact that the leaders will not, like, the fact that Olivia Chow, even Doug Ford,
01:23:11.200
none of them will stand up and actually do anything when you, Kareem Assad, Tristan Hopper,
01:23:16.240
there are enough reports now that we know that nefarious characters are behind this,
01:23:22.180
And there are governments that are, and it's working.
01:23:26.320
You look at what Ron DeSantis, as you know, I've volunteered, full disclosure, for the Democrats,
01:23:31.340
but I applaud what Ron DeSantis is doing in Florida because he's going after the Muslim Brotherhood.
1.00
01:23:36.540
He's going after the kind of extremist Muslim organizations who are funding and facilitating this anti-democratic activity.
0.68
01:23:47.700
Because at the end of the day, that's what it is.
01:23:52.360
As Israelis themselves point out all the time, this is an attack on democracy.
1.00
01:23:59.600
And we need to wake up to the magnitude of the threat.
01:24:02.020
So my book that's coming out talks about that, how they fund themselves, how they organize themselves,
01:24:07.620
how they recruit people, their messaging, their tactics, all that kind of stuff.
01:24:16.140
These guys have gotten, you know, I'm paying tribute to them almost.
01:24:21.560
What they're doing is evil and undemocratic, but they become extremely effective.
01:24:28.500
I would suggest they become very good at what they do because they've had very little resistance.
01:24:32.320
Like, honestly, I mean, if you look at the pipeline activism, with some of it being incredibly violent,
01:24:39.800
And then, you know, you see our approach to interference and, like, the joke and how we treat it.
01:24:49.340
So shame on us because it is very obvious that this is going on.
01:24:57.340
And the Trudeau government, sadly now under the Carney government.
01:25:00.400
You know, the guy I worked for, Kretzian, the show in against Wrangler,
0.58
01:25:04.380
when he was dealing with protesters who were too aggressive, he'd take it into his own hands.
01:25:13.780
Everybody needs to recognize the threat that we're facing to our way of life and our democracy
01:25:18.720
and that these people are becoming more and more effective at what they do.
01:25:25.100
Because, yeah, like, if they know this, they can just keep hijacking our own interests.
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01:25:28.720
And we've been stupidly polite about this.
1.00
01:25:35.160
You know, we've got a mayor who is indebted in some way, I don't know how, to these people.
01:25:41.680
And has allowed, you know, a situation to grow where we've got schools for little Jewish
01:25:47.160
kids being shot up once, twice, three times, businesses being firebombed.
01:25:52.380
You know, Heather Reeson's bookstore, like a bookstore being attacked.
01:25:56.780
Like, if there's, I can't think of a greater symbol of a democracy in decline
01:26:04.200
And Olivia Chow and Dem Q, our chief of police, have allowed that to happen.
01:26:09.320
And so I think we need to make a change in both of those offices.
01:26:14.080
So we have somebody like the new mayor of Calgary or, you know, Wob Canoe in Manitoba.
01:26:19.240
It doesn't matter what party you're thinking of.
01:26:21.520
There are leaders who know how to deal with this stuff and how to condemn it and how to
01:26:26.220
Sadly, in the city of Toronto, we don't have that.
01:26:31.160
So people like you, yourself and others standing up for it.
01:26:38.120
Warren Kinsella, and of course, he does have a book coming out, and it is The Hidden Hand
01:26:42.820
So we will, of course, we'll get him on to talk about that.
01:26:56.760
The world still moves when I don't pay attention.
01:27:03.760
Amongst the bars of the strip mall, I'm doing well.
01:27:05.540
Amongst the bars of the strip mall, I'm looking for the liquor store.
01:27:13.360
Complaining about the traffic, but I'm part of it.
01:27:23.900
Looking for the problem when I'm the one that started it.
01:27:30.060
And every day I wake up saying, what is this feeling I've carried for so long, glaring inside a broken car alarm?
01:27:41.780
What is this feeling I've carried for so long, glaring inside a broken car alarm?
01:27:56.520
What is this feeling I've carried for so long, glaring inside a broken car alarm?
01:28:00.300
What is this feeling I've carried for so long, glaring inside a broken car alarm?
01:28:18.920
Every chance to change, but we've lived somehow.
01:28:33.640
What is this feeling I've carried for so long, glaring inside a broken car alarm?
01:29:03.640
Convince myself it's all pretend I am crawling, I am building, it's collapsing, again it was short-lived, it was something I missed.
01:29:18.280
Complaining about the traffic, we're a part of it Looking for the problem when I'm the one who started it
01:29:32.600
And every day I wake up, and every day I wake up, and every day I wake up, the shame