KINSELLACAST 400： Episode 400! With special secret guests, our regulars, and some great Kinsellacast tunes!
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 20 minutes
Words per Minute
129.44905
Summary
In celebration of the 400th episode of The Kinsellacast, host Warren Kinseth is joined by Ontario Premier Doug Ford to talk about his love of punk rock, the Super Bowl, and his new album The Hidden Head.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
It's the Kinsella cast starring Warren Kinsella 400 episodes 400 if you had told me eight years
00:00:24.080
ago that I would still be doing this little podcast thing in 2026. I would have expressed
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surprise that I was still alive in 2026 but I am and the podcast is still here too. I made a decision
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early on that I would have a regular stable of guests so that you get to know them and their
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worldview. I would have conservatives and progressives and I would not take advertising
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because of the obvious suggestions of conflict of interest so I fund it all out of my own pocket
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and amazing things happen with this podcast the Kinsella cast. I've had political people coming
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up to me saying they love the music that I play and I've had music people coming up to me and saying
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they're interested in the political discussions so mission accomplished. I tried to play music from
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new artists who need the exposure because I've been there and I tried to have guests who aren't
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always predictable and on this episode I will of course have the regulars but I've got one very
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special secret guest who I will be speaking to first and I have another special guest James
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Villeneuve who's going to be telling some fun and funny stories about some of the many Super Bowls that
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he's attended over the years because the Super Bowl is this weekend and I've got just a small sampling
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of some of my favorite music from past episodes and I wish I could play everything that I have fallen
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in love with musically but that would make for a very long show. If you want to hear more of the music
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I play seek out one of the Kinsella cast music playlists which you can find on Apple Music and
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Spotify. So here we are episode 400 the big one episode 500 won't happen for another couple years
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and I think I'll pull the plug at that point if God in her wisdom hasn't pulled the plug on me first.
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So I just want to say thank you to you sitting out there in the cyber ether with your ear tuned to the
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Kinsella cast. It's been a lot of work but it's been a lot of fun and very rewarding.
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In the year ahead I will be talking more about my book The Hidden Head which is starting to come out
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this month as an e-book first and I'll be talking about our documentary The Campaign which will be
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coming out shortly after that and I've got a new design for my website you may have seen already
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it's now in its 20th year so you can check that out and 2026 is the 20th anniversary of the
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Daisy group and over those decades I've been so fortunate to employ hundreds of amazing people
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who've gone on to do extraordinary things and I've had hundreds of amazing clients big and small.
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So lots of stuff going on and lots of things happening but today
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I thank you for joining me on this the 400th episode of the Kinsella cast.
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The country court start up and take you back to where it began.
00:18:34.880
You know I think I kinda like it, like it better that way.
00:19:06.880
You know I think I kinda like it, like it better that way.
00:19:09.880
So catch me if you can, baby, come out of the way.
00:19:11.880
You know I think I kinda like you, like it better that way.
00:19:14.880
You know I think I kinda like you, like it better that way.
00:19:17.880
Don't wanna bust, I need to fuck, like get the fuck out of here.
00:19:20.880
Yes, I'm always joking too, I thought I was clear.
00:19:23.880
And then I think I gotta, gotta get the fuck outta here.
00:19:42.880
So I turned your head and started driving away.
00:19:45.880
You took your phone call from your house, I say, nah.
00:19:48.880
I wake to myself out in the window, making the sleigh.
00:19:51.880
And I think you gotta like me, like me better than the way
00:20:32.760
I think I like it, like it, like it, like it, like it!
00:21:04.040
a million years ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth
00:21:06.780
i was president of the student council at carlton university
00:21:12.300
we basically drove out the communists and took over the place
00:21:16.120
and my friend and colleague and the vice president
00:21:21.180
who basically ran the whole show was a guy named james villeneuve
00:21:25.360
and james is a canadian he now lives most of the time
00:21:28.660
in the united states in sunny california and james worked for years
00:21:33.580
at labat breweries and along with all the great things
00:21:37.560
that he did there for that company he also got to attend
00:21:41.800
many super bowls over the years and he brought me to one
00:21:45.680
one year and so i wanted to welcome james to the show
00:21:48.980
to the 400th episode of the cancel cast and we're going to talk a little bit
00:21:53.040
about some of the more memorable super bowls took place
00:21:56.520
because of course on sunday we've got the seahawks happening
00:21:59.760
with the patriots my son's favorite and um so james
00:22:03.720
welcome to the show good morning warren i'm a big fan of your show
00:22:07.520
i listen to it pretty much every week when i i'm hiking
00:22:10.760
in los angeles sometimes i have it on people what the hell are you listening
00:22:14.780
who's that don't let him in the country well listen um i know you've got
00:22:20.380
stories about every single year because you've attended so many of these
00:22:24.700
stories um i i think the one we decided we would start with is 1992
00:22:29.120
when you attended with a friend of ours yeah yeah that was a fun one was the
00:22:35.140
first one i got to go to i was working at labat and one of the senior
00:22:38.120
executives said to me you know i've got a pair of tickets in a
00:22:41.140
hotel you just got to get to the game which was in minneapolis which
00:22:44.740
a lot of people don't like going to those cold weather ones so
00:22:48.040
i reached out to our good friend the late gordy brown
00:22:50.860
who he and i love sports and we go to games together so gordy called me back
00:22:55.860
and said i'll get us on a trump shuttle a plane
00:23:01.400
but we get down there and this is obviously before he was president
00:23:07.440
trump's on the plane himself and basically says to everybody you know
00:23:12.560
sorry we're late marla had to pack extra bags it's free beer the whole way
00:23:16.580
so i think it was a foreshadow of his popularity as a populist and um
00:23:21.740
anyway we got to minneapolis had a great time gordon i was the first one
00:23:25.060
it was really fun that's great and we miss gordy very very much
00:23:28.300
93 uh was the next one that was the year of course kretzian won his big majority
00:23:33.560
and i was involved in that in his campaign but you were
00:23:41.680
yeah and and that that game was interesting because it got moved from phoenix because
00:23:48.600
the state legislature would not recognize martin luther king day people don't remember that
00:23:54.340
and so it got moved to los angeles on very short notice like within six months and only they plan
00:23:59.120
these out three or four years in advance and michael jackson at the peak of his celebrity was the
00:24:04.340
halftime show for people that might remember it and it was so crazy out at the it was at the
00:24:09.360
rose bowl they built a helicopter pad beside the stadium to take all the celebrities in and out
00:24:14.760
even though it's only 10 miles from downtown la um and one of the funny things that that was
00:24:20.580
another good friend of ours steve herman a carlton guy music guy we went to a party the night before
00:24:25.720
and you could not get in steve said i'm brian adams manager
00:24:29.920
take a number second bouncer shows up at the front and steve goes back up and says i'm brian adams
00:24:37.540
come on in so we go in steve's like five foot two and we're in there and like madonna was there
00:24:44.680
michael jordan like all kinds of celebrities so it was that's another thing at the super bowl is
00:24:48.960
getting into the good parties and you always have to figure that out so we did so in 2004 was the one
00:24:54.580
that you kindly um brought me to where we went to some parties and got to meet paris hilton we have
00:25:01.080
pictures of you and i with paris hilton so that was kind of fun but that was a big big year at the
00:25:06.180
super bowl halftime show wasn't it yeah it was and you and i were sitting there and that was the
00:25:12.540
janet jackson justin timberlake wardrobe malfunction as they call it i laughed because i watched the
00:25:19.240
grannies on sunday and it seems tame now that you know the woman would have her breast exposed and all
00:25:23.820
of america went crazy fight ethel don't look at that um but it was just crazy and you being the
00:25:31.340
intrepid reporter and lawyer you are i remember saying beside me saying that was set up and i'm
00:25:37.140
like there's no way they would set something like that up and then sure enough a week later
00:25:40.640
justin timberlake comes clean and says yeah we had it all planned then they went and then the only
00:25:47.480
reason i mean we were you had gotten us amazing seats so we were close to middle of the field
00:25:53.800
and on our side of the field i just saw this guy standing there with a blanket by these stairs
00:25:59.020
going down from the stage and it's like oh it looks like you know this is planned we got back
00:26:04.640
to the hotel adam sandler i think was staying at our hotel and he and his guys were freaking out oh my
00:26:09.640
god did you see that it was like i think they planned it it looked like they planned it and turned
00:26:13.860
out they planned it another amazing one prior to that you had in 2002 so you had a special guest on that
00:26:22.140
one yeah we took i took premier mike harris at the time he was the premier he paid for his ticket and
00:26:29.000
his trip down as i will point out but he really wanted to come he brought his son the current
00:26:33.820
cabinet mister mike harris jr was with us who reminded me of that last time i saw him he's only 17 at the
00:26:39.260
time but at one point we're walking down bourbon street it was in new orleans and some huge biker up
00:26:45.980
on a balcony he screams mike harris and i'm like oh this is going to be trouble maybe he's with a
00:26:52.340
union and mike's taking off so he came running down and he just started hugging harris i love you man
00:26:57.720
i'm from hamilton then we go to the game the next day and we had secret service take us in because
00:27:06.720
who michael harris was and i remember the secret service saying to him it's the premier of canada
00:27:12.620
like we have one and we go into our seats and just before halftime they knew he was there and
00:27:21.240
some connection brought us up to a suite that was being hosted by george h bush the former president
00:27:27.980
bush and in the suite was roger stallbuck and joe namath and all these football legends so we got to
00:27:33.240
hang with them wow which was really fun and and so that was every time i see uh premier harris we talk
00:27:38.840
about it so it was a good time so you've been to so many of these and and met all these different
00:27:44.600
celebrities what are a couple other stories some people that you met that you thought were really
00:27:49.060
cool that was special to you well one other one and this was an interesting one another back to steve
00:27:56.000
herman he booked kevin costner to play a private party as a musician which kevin costner is not much
00:28:03.020
of a musician when you saw him play but obviously a very famous actor and there was a little kid
00:28:08.600
running around throwing a football we went backstage this private little area and costner open up a
00:28:13.880
bottle of jack daniels to pour drinks for everybody and there's like maybe 12 of us there and there's a
00:28:19.320
little kid running around and this woman kept chasing him around i'm like what the heck is this all
00:28:23.220
about and she's got super bowl earrings on and i said steve who is that he goes oh she her father
00:28:31.020
owns the pittsburgh steelers and she had a one-night stand with kevin costner and that's the product is
00:28:36.400
the kid wow it's like wow but but costner was really nice um you know i took jim flaherty down once
00:28:43.660
it's another different story when he's the federal finance mister and that was the game when the power
00:28:48.440
went out in new orleans so all of a sudden you're in the stands and there's no power so you're thinking
00:28:52.740
this can't be happening at the super bowl people thought maybe it was a terrorist attack next thing
00:28:58.500
you know the secret service at our seats and we want to take you out and flaherty was with two of
00:29:02.980
his three sons were there and they went into the beers pretty good and boy he's like we're not going
00:29:07.380
anywhere yeah god bless him too well i mean it is an extraordinary event it's a big deal in canada
00:29:18.040
but even more so in the united states so this year what's your call final question what what's your
00:29:23.920
prediction for who's going to be the victor in sunday's game well this is my 35th one so i'm
00:29:30.780
going to make a bold prediction and say that the seahawks win 23 20 wow okay my son will be unhappy
00:29:38.480
to hear that but uh we will see what happens my friend it's great to hear your voice thank you so
00:29:44.200
much for these amazing stories so all the best to kim and your kids and your family have a wonderful
00:29:50.600
time on sunday and thank you so much and warren congrats on 400 shows thanks man as well informed
00:34:11.260
So, he needs to buy some time and he needs to appear like he's ready to work with them and cooperate.
00:34:17.160
Now, is it just an appearance or will it happen?
00:34:22.920
It's not like the Liberal government was able to get many legislation to the House in the fall.
00:35:01.420
It's a solo trade mission by conservative MP Jamil Javani and the way the Liberals were responding to it.
00:35:37.320
As he's breaking bread with Mark Carney, as he's breaking bread with Mark Carney, that his caucus are starting to do things like Javani?
00:35:44.400
Yeah, I mean, freelancers who are running on their own legacy is never a good thing.
00:35:50.580
When MPs start to think that they need to run in a by-election instead of a general election, you know, that their mindset, that's when the message goes south and sideways.
00:36:02.520
To be fair, Javani, though, I mean, he did get briefed by Dominic LeBlanc, but it sounds like this trip is first and foremost to make him look good.
00:36:17.480
But, you know, in as much as your comment about Javani and his relationship with Vance, I mean, if there's a man, if that can be helpful for Canada, well, the government should maybe think about using that leverage.
00:36:32.780
Maybe they've decided he's too much of a loose cannon to trust him.
00:36:36.880
Getting back to the get-together with Carney and Polyev, which really hasn't happened before, between these two men, does that create an opportunity for the new Democrats?
00:36:46.740
You know, get them to say, whether it's Avi Lewis or somebody else saying, look, here's the two conservatives getting together to plot your future.
00:36:56.140
This is why we need a functioning, workable, passionate, leftist voice in the House of Commons.
00:37:03.000
I think there is a vacuum on the left right now.
00:37:08.100
It's unclear if the NEP will be able to take advantage of it because the conditions that were there during the election are back,
00:37:15.140
which are Trump going after Canada, Trump threatening Canada's sovereignty.
00:37:21.700
And in response, you have Carney who has, you know, brought up his elbows again.
00:37:45.560
The question is, would it be just a side road where the NEP can grapple a couple of seats?
00:37:50.480
Or would it be a bigger road, maybe a highway, where the NEP could really come back?
00:37:57.580
But voters, you can see it, are disappointed with some of the decisions that Mark Carney has made with regards to policies that sound and look and are on paper more conservative than certainly Trudeau liberals.
00:38:11.820
Some of the polls that you've referenced and we've all seen in the past few days show that Carney getting ever more popular and his party, if an election was held now, he'd have a big majority, which I presume is the reason for all the speculation about elections.
00:38:30.480
But in the province of Quebec, Pierre Paliyev has always had a difficult time.
00:38:38.280
And I'm just wondering, what is the reason for that?
00:38:40.440
Why have Quebecers turned away so definitively against Paliyev and the conservative option?
00:38:48.020
Yeah, it's interesting because at the same time, at the provincial level, the conservatives are having a bit of a revival.
00:38:54.140
But it's not being equated at the federal level.
00:38:58.560
They're different brands and they have different leaders.
00:39:00.580
And I think that the Quebecers are quicker to associate Paliyev and his method to what Donald Trump did and the way he's acting.
00:39:16.840
But it was interesting in the last wave of polls to see that the Bloc Québécois was going down and the liberals were picking up some of that support.
00:39:24.820
And that could be a sign that on the provincial scene, the Parti Québécois lead is not as solid as one might think.
00:39:35.100
Is there express preference for another referendum?
00:39:39.000
Is it something that is a game changer for them?
00:39:42.640
Does it destroy their prospects at the time in the next election?
00:39:46.300
Because they haven't moved off of that yet, have they?
00:39:50.720
They are adamant about going forward with that plan, which is why they've been kind of stuck in the mid-30s, which, you know, when it's a five-party race, it's probably good enough to get you a majority.
00:40:01.660
But it also means that behind you, they're not that far.
00:40:07.100
There's a leadership race with the Coalition Avenir Québec with two candidates, and they're going at it pretty strongly.
00:40:20.740
And then you have the provincial liberals who are also in another leadership race after the Pablo Rodriguez fiasco.
00:40:27.180
And so two new party leaders, you know, it changed the game in the short term, and the election is just around the corner in the fall.
00:40:35.620
To conclude, and you've name-checked him a couple times, I think it's impossible to have a conversation in Canada without Trump's name coming up.
00:40:45.280
This week, he posted personally something just absolutely disgusting, depicting the Obamas as apes, and it has been condemned by everybody.
00:40:58.640
He's expressed now finally some regret for it after the White House defended it.
00:41:04.320
Did he do that to change the channel from the obvious Epstein problem he's got?
00:41:09.720
Or did he do that because that's just who he is?
00:41:17.620
I would be paid a lot of money if I could tell you what's in Donald Trump's brain with any kind of accuracy.
00:41:25.660
But, you know, what was amazing to me is how slow the people around Trump are to react and to manage him, and how the White House at first defended it, defended that awful post, and how long it took for it to go down.
00:41:43.080
I mean, that's the kind of thing, to me, that feels like amateur hour.
00:41:47.720
But the problem with Trump 2.0 compared to Trump 1.0 is that at first he didn't know what he was doing, so he was surrounded by actual political staffers, long-time Republicans that have done this thing, that knew what they were doing.
00:42:01.380
Now he's surrounded himself with a bunch of sycophants and fans and guys that are just like him.
00:42:08.540
And that's what we're seeing in action right now.
00:42:12.020
And that's what my former boss, Kretchen, said, and I'm sure your former boss, Mr. Leighton, said the same thing.
00:42:19.080
We're not supposed to be just yes-men or yes-women.
00:42:22.160
We're supposed to tell them when they're about to make a mistake, and that didn't happen with Trump this week, did it?
00:42:31.380
As always, stay warm, have a terrific day, and a wonderful week.
00:43:07.120
By the couch, you were talking so loudly, I don't know what about, but you were drunker than high school.
00:43:16.460
Self-conscious and sweet, I never, ever felt so cool, disguised in your sheets.
00:43:23.180
But I'm a constant headache, a two-saddle line.
00:43:28.180
They try to make you regret it, you tell them, no, not this fun.
00:43:33.020
I'm just a constant headache, a deathbed device.
00:43:38.420
You hang me up, I'm finished with a better bottoming on your mind.
00:43:45.020
And then you finally found me, pretending to sleep.
00:44:07.440
You said such nice things about me, I felt guilty and cheap.
00:44:12.520
You took two steps to the kitchen, just stared at the sink.
00:44:16.980
I couldn't hold back a smile, I still wish I could've seen you having sex in the morning.
00:44:26.900
It made me think maybe human's not such a bad thing to be.
00:44:31.900
But I just lay there in protest, entirely fucked.
00:44:36.680
It's such a stubborn reminder, one perfect night's not enough.
00:44:42.000
It's just a constant headache, a two-saddle line.
00:44:47.120
They try to make you regret it, you tell them, no, not this time.
00:44:52.140
It's just a constant headache, a deathbed device.
00:44:57.280
You hang me up, I'm finished with a better bottoming on your mind.
00:45:03.680
You hang me up, I'm finished with a better bottoming on your mind.
00:45:33.680
Now we're back, we're back with our friend Karima, who is now in Ottawa.
00:45:39.880
I don't think she's as cold as I am, but she's told me she's staying indoors, and that is prudent.
00:45:45.180
But indoors at the Ottawa Courthouse, where I used to apply my trade on Elgin Street,
00:45:52.240
there was a big, big result this week, and Karima has played a big role in that outcome
00:46:02.220
Yeah, so this week wrapped up a jury trial for the notorious Dina Sharif,
00:46:12.320
who is an Ottawa-based activist who I've been covering for several years now.
00:46:22.800
Okay, in a nutshell, this is the type of person when people talk about a perpetual protester,
00:46:31.620
someone who's always out, always making a spectacle of themselves for a variety of causes,
00:46:38.680
often internally inconsistent in their logic and in their stances, and just constantly being a nuisance.
00:46:47.920
And really, in my view, bringing disrepute to every cause she touches.
00:46:54.480
So this is someone who's traveled to different cities, has constantly been involved in antagonistic behavior.
00:47:03.980
And one of the most troubling behaviors, in my view, was the use of this electronic whistle over the years.
00:47:14.160
And for those who aren't familiar, it's a little device that was designed for referees to kind of do a short blast
00:47:25.160
and keep the whistle away from their ears, and certain activists have been misusing that device
00:47:41.780
So the use of that whistle was a big part of this jury trial.
00:47:48.600
There were allegations of assault with a weapon, criminal harassment, intimidation, possession of a weapon for dangerous purpose.
00:47:58.740
And the outcome of all of this was two findings of guilt.
00:48:07.180
It will be up to a judge to determine sentencing.
00:48:11.540
And worth noting that this individual has spent a significant amount of time in pretrial custody.
00:48:19.060
So that will have to be accounted for in assessing what the sentence will be.
00:48:26.140
I was mentioning I don't have any formal role in the prosecution of this case,
00:48:31.320
but I have been following it very closely and doing my best to keep a spotlight on this behavior,
00:48:42.720
And, you know, when we look at the protest landscape,
00:48:46.800
there can be a tendency to overlook certain tactics if they are coming from the side with which we tend to sympathize or agree.
00:48:59.200
I've never taken that position and I do my best to keep my actual politics separate from the documentation that I do.
00:49:10.480
And, you know, bad tactics are bad tactics across the board.
00:49:14.580
And, you know, as much as there was a lot of media generated with the prosecution of Tamara Leach and Chris Barber
00:49:24.380
and other people associated with the convoy, there were no allegations of violence with respect to those leaders.
00:49:36.980
And Sharif in the past has been charged with assaulting a police officer and also hate charges, hasn't she?
00:49:43.980
So, the assaulting police was actually part of this trial.
00:49:50.800
It was a charge that was done away with before the trial even got started.
00:49:57.040
The Crown, and, you know, I can say the Crown, as far as the evidence that they led,
00:50:01.880
it was a little bit disappointing that they did not test the sound device,
00:50:06.460
which I think gave the jury room for reasonable doubt as to what its capabilities actually are.
00:50:15.740
The hate-motivated aspect of this is something I anticipate hearing more about in sentencing.
00:50:23.340
I was only there to observe one witness and the closing submissions from both sides.
00:50:30.100
So, I don't know what evidence was led that may be relevant to the hate aspect of this,
00:50:40.820
And Dina has actually previously been found guilty of breaching her bail and causing a disturbance
00:50:52.520
She was discharged, conditionally discharged in that proceeding.
00:50:57.460
And so, you know, I would be very surprised if a discharge is on the table again.
00:51:04.260
Well, I think a good outcome for justice and for civilization and for you.
00:51:09.700
So, congratulations for the role you played in bird-dogging that one.
00:51:14.460
One thing I want to talk to you about, you are a person of color, you're of Palestinian descent in part.
00:51:22.360
And this week, there's been a lot of this coming from down south, but this week, just an extraordinary development
00:51:30.020
with the President of the United States posting a video depicting the Obamas as apes.
00:51:36.280
And it was, I think, the first time in memory where Republicans have actually condemned what happened
00:51:43.420
and what Trump did and characterized it correctly as racism.
00:51:47.620
I wanted to get a sense from you about what your reaction was to that.
00:51:54.760
And I presume you must have considered it to be horrible on both a personal level and otherwise.
00:52:01.900
I might be experiencing shock fatigue where, you know, I heard this news and was like, oh, really?
00:52:13.760
And, you know, it's just, okay, that's just another thing to add to the tally of absurd
00:52:21.300
and would never have been tolerated in the past things that are just almost normal at this point.
00:52:31.580
You know, so that is troubling in and of itself.
00:52:35.280
I understand that the clip of the Obamas was part of a longer video ultimately depicting Trump
00:52:46.280
as the king of the jungle, I think, in lion form, if I'm not mistaken.
00:52:51.700
I don't know that that provides any plausible deniability.
00:52:55.880
You know, there is a very well-established link between dehumanizing particularly black people
00:53:08.960
and, you know, reimagining them as apes, monkeys, gorillas, etc.
00:53:15.280
That even sort of as an unintentional, I don't see in any universe how this could be unintentional.
00:53:24.160
Just, I don't know if any of your listeners are Degrassi fans.
00:53:28.700
There was a Degrassi episode about this where the cheerleaders portrayed the other team as gorillas
00:53:36.540
and then they realized that, oh my goodness, this is actually racist.
00:53:41.280
So, but that's, you know, teenagers depicting and even they were able to sort of figure it out
00:53:51.760
So, I don't think that the president of the free world has as much latitude and just back to,
00:54:03.200
And when we dehumanize, you know, all sorts of other bad things follow.
00:54:10.440
But I will also say that this is, unfortunately, a normal thing to see online.
00:54:19.060
I think the point you've been making for years is we just all need to behave better
00:54:23.520
and be better humans and treat people, treat each other with decency and civility.
00:54:29.120
And increasingly, even in the most powerful office in the world, that is not happening, is it?
00:54:42.160
And, you know, it's, again, when it comes from one of the most powerful people in the world,
00:54:53.600
You know, there's another element to this where no matter what level of success,
00:55:01.860
objective success you attain, you could still be subject to that kind of humiliation, degradation.
00:55:16.460
My friend, enjoy Ottawa, if that is, in fact, possible.
00:55:45.280
Cause the world's shopping through our dirty minds.
00:55:50.900
So who's putting money on the line that I'm waking up alive?
00:56:00.260
I'm waiting to learn, to learn, to learn, to learn, to learn to fly
00:56:08.240
I'm waiting to learn, to learn, to learn, to learn the reason why
00:56:39.760
I'm waiting to look, to look, to look, to look, to look