kinsellacast - March 21, 2026


KINSELLACAST 406: Don Cherry, Rogan and Poilievre, Trump's war and more - with Lilley, Sa'd, Belanger, Pierson, Mulroney, Smyth and lots of Wire!


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 43 minutes

Words per Minute

158.47208

Word Count

16,426

Sentence Count

698

Misogynist Sentences

10

Hate Speech Sentences

37


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 It's the Kinsella cast starring Warren Kinsella.
00:00:19.040 Hey, it's Warren from the Kinsella cast.
00:00:22.080 I have got a really, really long show for you this week
00:00:27.160 because there's really, really been a lot of things happening.
00:00:31.960 Don Cherry and the Order of Canada, Trump's war,
00:00:37.200 hateful protests in the streets of Toronto and all over the place,
00:00:42.920 polls, you name it, it's been happening.
00:00:48.740 So the show, as a consequence, is pretty long.
00:00:52.660 So I've got the usual.
00:00:53.740 So I've got Brian Lilly and Karim Assad and Paul Balazio,
00:00:56.500 but I've also got Alex Pearson, I've got Ben Mulroney, and I've got Michael Smith from CKNW.
00:01:03.940 So to accommodate all that, how do I deal with all of that? Let me take you behind the scenes
00:01:08.280 at the Kinsella Cast headquarters. It's an empire, really. And so we had a meeting in the boardroom
00:01:17.600 And I said to myself, how do we have that many people on the show and have the right amount of music without making it the longest podcast in history, with the possible exception of the two hour and 30 minute broadcast podcast that Joe Rogan had with Pierre Polyette this week?
00:01:41.880 How do we do that?
00:01:42.940 And the solution came to me from my teenage years.
00:01:47.160 i responded to myself wire wire was one of the first wave punk rock groups and they put out this
00:01:56.440 album called pink flag and for us punk rockers skinny pale acne on the canadian prairies
00:02:05.000 in the social blemishes first punk band on the canadian prairies this album was just
00:02:12.440 like sent from heaven sent from punk rock heaven it was amazing it had two dozen tracks on it
00:02:22.120 some of them only 30 or 45 seconds long so that became the solution that's how i have as many
00:02:30.920 people on the show talking as you're about to discover with music it's all one band all from
00:02:37.480 one album came out 1977 called pink flag i encourage you to seek it out it is one of my
00:02:45.660 top 10 albums of all time and has been for many years and i've seen them many times um over the
00:02:53.300 years their lineup has changed a bit their sound has definitely changed by the time they produced
00:02:59.160 their second album chair is missing they you know they had synthesizers on it was like heresy for us
00:03:04.340 um but secretly when nobody was around warren was listening to it going wow i think this is
00:03:11.340 the future and it was um so uh lots of wire from one album and lots of smart people so i'm not
00:03:21.420 going to give you a monologue or any of that kind of stuff i'm just going to get right into the show
00:03:25.560 so welcome to the kinsella cast
00:03:28.020 We'll be right back.
00:03:58.020 and we're back and we're back with the one the only the legendary brian lilly brian welcome
00:04:25.140 good to talk to you again warren one day i'll see you in person again yes this week a while it has
00:04:31.740 been a while i apologize but i'm going to be around all this week and you're going to have
00:04:36.040 quite your fill of me and maybe we can go to the patrician sadly before they shut their doors for
00:04:41.980 good i've been avoiding that typical of me i just it makes me sad so i don't go um last week yeah
00:04:50.400 I'm going to, I got to go see the guys.
00:04:52.560 So, um, one thing that was happy, at least for Pierre Polyev was he took,
00:04:58.620 I thought he took a risk.
00:05:01.180 I thought it could have gone sideways.
00:05:04.240 Um, I thought all kinds of things could have gone wrong, but his encounter
00:05:09.440 with Joe Rogan, everything went right.
00:05:12.020 What do you think?
00:05:13.920 Uh, you know, I was not expecting a history lesson on kettlebells.
00:05:18.840 as in-depth as I received from that
00:05:22.000 appearance. And for folks
00:05:23.980 who haven't watched it,
00:05:25.760 he opened
00:05:27.920 by giving Rogan a gift of a
00:05:29.820 kettlebell
00:05:30.520 emblazoned
00:05:34.220 with red maple leaf on it.
00:05:36.500 And then gave
00:05:38.000 a history of the kettlebell. Pierre,
00:05:39.780 probably for those that don't know, is a fitness nut.
00:05:43.660 As I'd like to point out, he and I used to go to the same
00:05:45.940 gym. You can look at us and tell which
00:05:47.920 one kept going and so you know you recently did a podcast with uh tony greco his longtime trainer
00:05:56.240 uh all about fitness and um you know it's positive impact on your life and stuff so
00:06:02.460 uh he and rogan talked a lot about that he showed that he's a big mma fan but they also
00:06:07.660 talk politics he sidestepped things like rogan saying fidel castro is justin trudeau's real
00:06:14.620 father and he delivered a very positive message for canada so you know i you know what i loved i
00:06:24.660 loved that he didn't go there and shit on carney and shit on canada like giovanni did like carney
00:06:31.480 did carney went and announced his candidacy on the daily show and crapped all over polyev polyev
00:06:37.840 did not do that to carney and i think he deserves a ton of credit for that it was a it was very
00:06:44.200 classy of him and he also revealed that he's been texting with Mark Carney during his trip to the
00:06:49.340 U.S. so it's a it's a pretty impressive trip to the United States that he's been on he you know
00:06:55.260 met with auto executives including the leadership of Ford in Detroit he was in Austin and that's
00:07:01.780 where Joe Rogan is based so you know smarter than to do the podcast while he's there he met with
00:07:07.460 in Austin he met with members of the oil industry leaders in the oil industry in the railway sector
00:07:13.700 other sectors that impact Canada's economy gave a speech in New York he did another great interview
00:07:20.240 it's only about 20 minutes long so if you don't have two hours and 23 minutes to watch him on Joe
00:07:24.540 Rogan he did a very good interview with Bloomberg television that's now on YouTube and shared all
00:07:30.900 over social media and he will it help him I don't know because in my view we're not having an election
00:07:39.240 until late 2029 so well let's talk about that mark carney's getting his majority explain to me
00:07:47.260 although nate erskine smith resigning may take it away for at least a little while um explain to me
00:07:53.460 why you know polyev is is now doing what guys like me insisted that he do be a leader of the
00:08:02.700 opposition who's professional and smart and reasonable and coming up with ideas and being
00:08:09.800 pro-Canada, not saying Canada's broken, like he's doing everything right, but he's not getting
00:08:16.240 credit for in the polls. And I'm not going to dignify something like ECOS, you know, the gap
00:08:21.640 there was ridiculous, but a lot of them, like Nanos, are showing a big gap. Why isn't Pierre
00:08:27.560 Paliyev getting credit for finally doing the right thing. But he, he might eventually.
00:08:34.300 Um, but let me just say something. You mentioned Nate Erskine Smith and I was at a scrum with Doug
00:08:39.740 Ford at Queens park this week. And Nate has, uh, you know, made it clear that he wants to run to
00:08:45.980 be leader of the Ontario liberal party. And he gave an interview to the globe and mail saying
00:08:50.140 he can't wait to go toe to toe with Doug Ford. Doug Ford has not faced a liberal leader in
00:08:54.920 the legislature uh other than the interim john fraser he hasn't faced someone that the liberal
00:09:01.860 party has chosen as leader in his entire eight years as premier ouch it's it's utter insanity
00:09:10.540 that uh that hasn't happened so nate erskine smith thinks he'll be able to get into the
00:09:16.060 legislature and go toe-to-toe when he's talking tough and laura stone from the globe and mail
00:09:21.220 who had written the story asked
00:09:23.220 Ford about it and he just
00:09:25.240 said I don't know this guy
00:09:26.980 he could be standing right in front of me
00:09:28.720 and
00:09:33.060 you know I
00:09:34.200 I don't like him
00:09:36.300 he's an interesting guy but I don't
00:09:38.960 see him being a leader and if he does become
00:09:40.920 leader I think it
00:09:42.740 cements a fourth
00:09:45.000 majority
00:09:46.140 unless that Ford messes
00:09:49.200 up and that could always
00:09:51.120 happen but i don't see him defeating but nate nate is not a t you know i mean is he interesting
00:09:57.440 yeah sure so is charles manson like or it's like nate erskine smith he couldn't even when he
00:10:05.500 announced he was going to run on scarborough southwest he didn't even have the respect or
00:10:10.140 the courtesy to do what you're required to do as you know which is get in touch with the proceeding
00:10:16.120 the last liberal candidate for that riding and say hey i'm gonna i'm gonna seek the nomination
00:10:22.480 didn't even do that like he this guy's he's just not a team player i think if he actually becomes
00:10:28.380 a liberal leader you're going to see some members of the caucus leaving for the tories leaving for
00:10:33.480 the pcs and leaving the ndp but i guess we'll we'll discover that in due course as far as poly
00:10:39.500 of doing all the right things in the polling you know the poly of that you saw in that rogan
00:10:45.300 interview is the guy that i've known for a long time and if you think back to the interview he
00:10:50.660 gave with me in with two weeks to go in the election campaign and in the middle of it i said
00:10:56.580 you got to relax that's the guy i was looking for he showed up for rogan so um that's a much
00:11:05.060 more relatable guy and i was sitting at um uh friday end of the day friday i was uh dropped by
00:11:13.700 Hemingway's in Yorkville
00:11:15.760 for a pint, a place I'm sure you know well.
00:11:18.160 I know it. And I'm
00:11:19.600 sitting there typing away on my
00:11:21.620 computer and
00:11:22.960 all of a sudden I hear these two guys
00:11:25.720 at the end of the bar
00:11:27.060 and they look to
00:11:29.680 be
00:11:30.120 early to mid-70s.
00:11:34.060 And they're talking about
00:11:35.800 Polyev's Rogan appearance
00:11:37.220 and how impressed they were.
00:11:39.480 Now, both of them said that they did not
00:11:41.860 vote for Polyev.
00:11:43.700 And neither of them liked Rogan, but they watched because of the hype around it, and they were impressed by him.
00:11:51.660 So does that eventually show up in the polls? Maybe.
00:11:56.260 But the other thing that will have to happen, and polls are rearview mirror snapshot in time.
00:12:02.020 So maybe in a few weeks it changes.
00:12:05.020 But for that to happen, Donald Trump would have to be quiet.
00:12:09.920 uh instead he's dominated the news from the ice raids that were all over canadian television news
00:12:16.640 back in january to more trade threats in february to the war in iran now so let's dominate and that
00:12:23.500 helps carney but let me finish but when the um uh you know the the jobs numbers that were out we
00:12:31.780 lost 108 000 full-time jobs you keep hearing about well we lost 83 000 jobs no we lost 108 000
00:12:38.680 full-time and and there were enough part-time jobs to make it just an 83 000 loss that's massive
00:12:47.060 the food inflation is still i know i know but once those things come back and it's not all trump
00:12:54.080 no i know but he carney leads this charmed existence just when you think things like
00:13:00.320 the ones you've just cited and there are many more are going to take a bite out of his popularity
00:13:04.760 along comes donald trump to call us cowards he fucking called us cowards because he you know
00:13:10.980 we've kind of declined for the time being not to immediately participate in policing the straight
00:13:16.720 of hormuz like like carney just can't lose as long as trump is saying ridiculous things like that or
00:13:24.120 am i wrong am i missing something that that is going to keep mark carney boosted in the polls
00:13:30.780 for sure. It helps him. I think he has delayed getting a good trade deal because he knows it
00:13:40.660 helps him in the polls if he's fighting with Trump. Jameson Greer the other day was saying
00:13:45.220 things are moving along well with Mexico, but Canada's not there. So it's a repeat of 2017
00:13:51.840 when the Mexicans got a deal and we basically signed on to a Kuzma deal that Mexico had
00:13:59.700 negotiated for us and they weren't going to let us in and we squeezed in at the last minute we
00:14:06.400 don't want to be doing that again but it helps them politically is the play you know i'm trying
00:14:11.540 to imagine carney jumping in to the conversation between lily and kinsella is his play to say well
00:14:18.680 i want to wait until the midterms to strengthen my position i know he can't wait that long
00:14:23.960 necessarily but do the midterms help him because it looks like the the republican party is heading
00:14:29.900 towards a historical wipeout does that improve canada's position um well he can't wait until
00:14:39.180 uh the midterms for the uh renegotiation because that has to be done um by july 1st july yeah part
00:14:48.160 of it yeah so you can't wait that long and um yeah looking at real clear polling right now
00:14:54.820 generic congressional vote 47 for the democrats 42 for the republicans uh trump's job approval
00:15:03.800 rating is down to 41.8 you know everyone was saying he was in the shitter when he was at 46
00:15:10.260 and i was like no just you know historically that was but the last 25 years that's a good one once
00:15:16.100 down to 41.8 you're into a bad spot um and then but again uh party uh negative view of the political
00:15:27.780 parties 55.7 percent hate the democrats and 53.9 percent yeah but brother i mean the the democratic
00:15:35.460 candidate in the texas is is ahead the republic like stuff crazy stuff cala rico yeah yeah there's
00:15:45.540 There's all, like, it's, we can't wait till the midterms, like, it's, and I firmly believe
00:15:53.180 that both parties are protectionist now.
00:15:56.620 100%.
00:15:57.060 We have no free traders.
00:15:58.580 No.
00:15:58.940 It's, it's been getting bad for years, so I don't know what his play is.
00:16:04.320 Like, okay, so if the Democrats take back some of the House, they may say don't put
00:16:09.820 tariffs on Canada, but it's not like they actually want free trade with Canada.
00:16:13.040 Yeah. I mean, Joe Biden, the whole reason that Trudeau and Doug Ford had to put all that money into the EV sector to get those two plans was Joe Biden was trying to fuck us over and take all the auto jobs south of the border. And so they matched the Inflation Reduction Act. We don't have friends in Washington these days like we used to.
00:16:38.360 We sure don't.
00:16:39.860 Well, we've got a friend in Brian Lilly with your knowledge and wisdom.
00:16:45.980 Most grateful for both.
00:16:48.240 And I look forward to seeing you this week.
00:16:51.460 And we're going to walk into the Patrician Grill together.
00:16:54.360 Look forward to that.
00:16:54.860 Sounds good.
00:16:55.660 Thanks, brother.
00:17:08.360 Think of a number
00:17:14.620 Divided by two
00:17:16.680 Something is nothing
00:17:18.860 Nothing is nothing
00:17:20.900 Open a box
00:17:22.860 Tear up the lid
00:17:24.740 Then think of a number
00:17:26.680 Don't think of an answer
00:17:28.680 Open your eyes
00:17:30.920 Think of a number
00:17:32.720 Don't get such a number
00:17:34.860 A number's a number
00:17:36.680 A chance encounter you want to avoid
00:17:41.740 The inevitable
00:17:44.340 So you do
00:17:47.760 Oh yes you do
00:17:49.800 The impossible
00:17:52.820 Now you ain't got a number
00:18:02.260 You just want a rumba
00:18:04.280 And there ain't no way
00:18:06.540 You're gonna go under, go under, go under, go under, go under, go under, you tear me asunder, go under, go under, go under, go under, yeah.
00:18:19.600 And we're back, we're back with my friend Carl Belanger, and Carl, everybody's talking, well, everybody talks about the interviews I do with you, but the other thing that they talk about is the big interview for two and a half hours,
00:18:33.080 Pierre Polyev sat down with Joe Rogan.
00:18:36.140 I thought there were all kinds of ways
00:18:38.020 it could have gone wrong,
00:18:39.020 but it didn't seem to.
00:18:40.260 It seemed like he acquitted himself well
00:18:43.020 and he's getting some good reviews.
00:18:45.200 What did you think?
00:18:46.660 Yeah, I mean, it certainly is
00:18:47.900 the most positive coverage
00:18:49.160 and quantity and quality wise
00:18:51.420 is received in quite some time.
00:18:53.740 So mission accomplished on that front.
00:18:56.320 Before we dig in deeper though,
00:18:57.920 when is the last time Pierre Polyev sat down
00:19:00.240 with a Canadian media or podcast for that kind of time.
00:19:04.500 Good point.
00:19:05.220 You know, it's interesting.
00:19:07.160 But anyway, nevertheless, there's still a lot of Canadians
00:19:10.860 who listen to Rogan.
00:19:12.320 I think the last estimate I saw was 3 million people.
00:19:15.400 So, I mean, it's nothing.
00:19:17.220 It's significant.
00:19:19.020 But the coverage is getting, you know,
00:19:21.640 is badly needed at this time for him.
00:19:23.460 He needs to get some positive coverage.
00:19:26.020 And the way he's playing the statement card, I think, is interesting.
00:19:29.620 I think he's trying to build on that.
00:19:31.600 There was the European trip.
00:19:33.180 There was the meeting with Carney.
00:19:34.780 There was the trip to BC for the commemoration of the shooting victims.
00:19:42.000 And now this, I think he now finally gets it,
00:19:46.880 that he cannot be an attack dog all the time,
00:19:50.620 that he cannot be just the chief opposition cheerleader
00:19:54.200 because that's not what Canadians want to see.
00:19:56.740 They want someone who can look the part.
00:20:00.200 And in the last election, I think it hurt him with many Canadians
00:20:03.160 that he did not look the part.
00:20:05.220 He did not look like a guy who could be prime minister.
00:20:08.520 And I think they're trying to shift finally that perception.
00:20:13.700 So dare I say it, Pierre Paulyev has grown up.
00:20:16.860 Guys like you and I were urging him to do that.
00:20:20.500 He seemed to have taken our advice and has grown up a bit
00:20:24.000 and become a more mature politician.
00:20:26.480 However, and the same question I asked Brian Lilley,
00:20:29.940 who has a much more conservative point of view on all of this stuff,
00:20:34.280 why isn't he getting credit for it?
00:20:36.140 I mean, the polling continues to be an unmitigated disaster for Polyev.
00:20:41.840 The seat projections are that Kearney, if an election was held today,
00:20:46.560 would win one of the biggest majorities in Canadian history,
00:20:50.160 and Polyev would have a third as many seats.
00:20:54.300 Why isn't Pierre's good moves resulting in better numbers?
00:21:00.200 Well, there's a couple of reasons.
00:21:02.060 One of them is the way the American president is behaving,
00:21:05.900 is reminding people why they voted for Carney
00:21:08.380 and why they didn't want to vote for Paul Yev.
00:21:10.960 So that, to me, is a big factor.
00:21:14.760 The saving grace, though, which comes with some danger,
00:21:19.120 but it's the fact that in three weeks' time,
00:21:22.160 we will have a liberal majority.
00:21:24.960 The government will have enough seat to adopt its agenda,
00:21:28.700 to control committees,
00:21:30.700 and that will give time for Poiliev to bounce back.
00:21:34.820 There's no pressure because there's not going to be an election this spring
00:21:38.140 or even next fall.
00:21:39.480 It looks like we'll be in it for the long haul.
00:21:42.240 And so that's good news for Poiliev.
00:21:43.680 The only problem, of course, is that if he doesn't shift things around
00:21:49.080 or improve slightly or show some kind of progress,
00:21:52.840 there's also more time for the rebels
00:21:54.440 or the wannabe rebels to help them if they so choose
00:21:57.880 because now there's no danger of a snap election.
00:22:01.300 So it can cut both ways.
00:22:04.000 Excellent.
00:22:04.380 And the conservatives are the only party in the House
00:22:07.500 that have subscribed to Michael Chong's ridiculous reform act
00:22:11.860 or whatever the hell it's called
00:22:13.040 so they can remove him with a caucus vote
00:22:16.580 as they did with Aaron O'Toole.
00:22:19.080 So you're absolutely right.
00:22:20.520 But what of the NDP?
00:22:21.940 So it looks very much to a lot of us that the guy to beat,
00:22:26.280 at least based upon his fundraising numbers, is Avi Lewis.
00:22:33.160 He seems to be well ahead of the pack in terms of money.
00:22:37.360 Do we still think that he's going to win?
00:22:39.280 And if so, does a majority Liberal government give him time to get things ready?
00:22:44.440 Is it a good thing for him?
00:22:46.340 Yeah, it's a good thing for the NDP.
00:22:49.080 For sure. And you're right.
00:22:51.340 Louis, by all indication, will win that contest.
00:22:54.480 And I dare say, perhaps even on the first ballot, he sold the most membership by all accounts and sources that I have still in the party.
00:23:04.080 He is on top on fundraising.
00:23:05.880 Like he's raised more money than the other four combined.
00:23:08.500 So that's a big indicator.
00:23:09.800 And the other indicator that's interesting is that even though there was kind of a feeling or a sentiment that there should be an anybody-but-avvy movement, it didn't materialize.
00:23:23.540 In fact, Andrew McPherson tried to strike a deal with Rob Ashton, and they're both running second and third, depending on who you talk to, to engage their supporters to vote for the other one and not Avi in second spot.
00:23:39.180 because it's a ranked ballot, and Rob Ashton turned Heather McPherson down.
00:23:43.200 So there's nothing organized to create any kind of anybody but Avi Lewis movement.
00:23:49.260 So I think that you never know in politics, and it's a secret ballot,
00:23:56.160 and people have sometimes weird rational, but by all indicators,
00:24:00.420 he is going to win and win big, and he is going to have time to rebuild the party.
00:24:05.640 He'll be able to crisscross the country to bring some money into the NDP's electoral bank, and he won't have to face an election.
00:24:14.640 And because it's a majority government, he won't have to be in Ottawa all that much because the NDP now in Ottawa is irrelevant.
00:24:21.980 They not only have no party status in three weeks' time when Carney gets his majority, they will have also lost the balance of power.
00:24:31.120 Now, he shouldn't face an election, I agree, but what about a by-election?
00:24:34.380 there's rumors flying that with Nate Erskine-Smith
00:24:38.120 who I think is a bit of a jerk
00:24:40.600 leaving Beaches East York
00:24:42.300 where I've lived off and on for many years
00:24:46.060 him leaving going to Scarborough Southwest
00:24:48.320 opens up a by-election
00:24:50.320 and there's a lot of people talking about Avi Lewis running there
00:24:53.060 wouldn't the pressure be immense for him to run
00:24:55.800 and not repeat the mistake that Jagmeet Singh made
00:24:58.640 when he became leader?
00:25:00.680 Yeah, it would be
00:25:02.560 a problem for him
00:25:06.100 not to run there, considering
00:25:08.020 the roots of the Lewis family in Ontario
00:25:10.140 and in Toronto. And Beecher's East York
00:25:12.200 is a seat that the NEP has held
00:25:14.000 at times, federally
00:25:16.080 and provincially. So,
00:25:18.020 you know, there's a good argument
00:25:19.920 that he should run and win, but
00:25:21.380 that doesn't mean that after that you spend your time
00:25:23.880 in Ottawa sitting in the corner.
00:25:26.720 Of course, you spent some
00:25:27.980 time there, but you don't, I mean,
00:25:30.000 the party doesn't have much
00:25:31.900 sway. He needs to rebuild this party across the country if he hopes to bring it back into some
00:25:37.860 kind of contention and have party status back. But I think if Erskine Smith does move,
00:25:46.760 I don't know that he will have a choice but to run in that riding.
00:25:50.360 Absolutely. Final question. The war now entering its fourth week, the war against Iran,
00:25:56.080 is getting more and more unpopular,
00:26:00.120 including with people who are reasonable and sensible
00:26:03.160 on both the left and the right,
00:26:05.300 for all kinds of reasons.
00:26:07.940 Trump is leading it, the cost of fuel and so on.
00:26:13.460 Where do you think this is going and what should Carney do?
00:26:16.400 Because Carney has had, I think Melissa Lansman has said,
00:26:19.480 and I think she's right,
00:26:20.260 that Carney's had about five positions on the war
00:26:23.700 since it began, what do you think Canada should do
00:26:28.180 as the pressure grows for us to participate in some way,
00:26:31.820 let's say in the Strait of Hormuz?
00:26:33.320 What should we do?
00:26:34.980 Well, it was interesting to see him shift his position again this week
00:26:38.480 when he added Canada's name at the last minute
00:26:41.760 to the list of six countries who were threatening Iran
00:26:46.980 with military intervention or at least naval intervention in Detroit.
00:26:51.100 So it's hard to follow, you know, for most Canadians, especially after he said, we'll never get involved.
00:26:58.920 And then suddenly, well, we may get involved.
00:27:03.320 So, you know, to me, it speaks to the fact that this guy has not really learned to be a politician before becoming prime minister.
00:27:14.300 Totally agree.
00:27:15.080 Totally agree.
00:27:15.900 This is where he doesn't have the reflex, he doesn't consider the options, he doesn't understand fully how caucus management works and how they're thinking, and so he just takes position as things evolve, and it looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.
00:27:31.560 So if there's been one weakness of his since the beginning of his mandate, it's that. He doesn't have the reflex, he doesn't quite get it, but despite that Canadians are still on side.
00:27:44.000 So this could change, though, if Canada does get involved, if Canada does send some warships in the zone, and they are suddenly under fire from Iran, who will not hesitate to attack other countries, have been proven since the beginning of this war.
00:28:00.660 And thereby creating opportunity for a guy named Avi Lewis.
00:28:04.480 Interesting times ahead.
00:28:06.160 My friend, thank you so much.
00:28:07.480 Sorry to improvise on your weekend, but couldn't do the podcast without you.
00:28:11.500 So thank you so much.
00:28:13.000 Appreciate it.
00:28:13.680 We'll talk next week.
00:28:43.680 We'll be right back.
00:29:13.680 We'll be right back.
00:29:43.680 Tell me
00:29:46.140 Why don't you tell me
00:29:49.480 Why don't you tell me
00:29:52.100 Why don't you tell me
00:29:55.880 Tell me
00:30:11.660 Why don't you tell me
00:30:14.900 Tell me
00:30:18.020 Why don't you tell me
00:30:21.480 La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
00:30:28.940 Oh-oh-oh
00:30:35.540 Oh-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
00:30:39.840 And we're back. We're back with our friend Karima.
00:30:50.400 And Karima, as always, has her watchful eye casting over the protest circuit
00:30:57.800 and people exercising their democratic rights and stuff that's happening online, all of that.
00:31:05.000 And Kareem, the first thing I wanted to ask you is, do you feel, as I do, that things have gotten measurably worse and angrier since the start of the war in Iran?
00:31:18.620 I mean, it's a bit early to tell, right, what's the actual impact of this going to be.
00:31:26.540 But as far as some of the rhetoric and, you know, the choice to bring effigies onto the street and harm those, and some of the threats that are being reported on, including threats against former Canadian politicians,
00:31:48.480 All of that, you know, coupled with what we can infer are hate-motivated attacks against synagogues and places of worship and places of business.
00:32:03.820 And, you know, so there is definitely, yes, a measurable change in the intensity, I think, of hate.
00:32:15.140 explain to us if you can and forgive me for a dumb question but you know they've been persistent
00:32:23.760 on anti-israel and in some cases anti-semitic themes for decades it's nothing new it didn't
00:32:30.780 start happening on october 7th 2023 so it's just it's just ramped up in the opinion of guys like
00:32:36.740 me um and you know they've got a case they think that they can make and obviously they've persuaded
00:32:42.940 a lot of people, that Israel is this fascistic, white supremacist, colonialist state.
00:32:48.820 But Iran is a harder nut to crack.
00:32:53.240 You know, the Ayatollahs are murderous.
00:32:56.840 They commit terrible acts of violence against their own people.
00:33:02.480 They suppress their own people, brutalize their own people.
00:33:06.060 So how have the folks on the protest circuit been able to rationalize supporting that?
00:33:14.680 Because that's what it looks like.
00:33:16.200 It looks like they're supporting the Ayatollahs.
00:33:19.600 Yeah, so if we are talking about the specific subset of protesters who consider themselves progressive,
00:33:27.600 yet appear to be aligning with the Islamic regime, there are a few things.
00:33:34.080 The first is this framework of oppressor, oppressed. It's kind of a binary, right? And the real world doesn't always fit neatly into those defined categories.
00:33:49.920 But because you have American involvement, Israeli involvement, by default, that is the side of the oppressor.
00:34:01.200 And so when you have Iran, you know, more prominently figuring into the equation, something doesn't compute.
00:34:14.560 And this framework is applied nonetheless.
00:34:19.480 And, you know, it becomes about what do, you know, the Iranian people want?
00:34:25.660 And if, you know, that's what they want, then that's what they want.
00:34:28.560 Which, of course, we are dealing with an information blackout from Iran. So we don't actually, there's a lot of unknowns. And, you know, a lot of, obviously, the Islamic Republic is incompatible with progressive conceptions of, you know, feminist theory, or that's just one example.
00:34:58.560 There are a hundred examples of things that are not really reconcilable, but, you know, internal consistency of logic doesn't always seem to be a priority for these protesters.
00:35:14.400 And so, you know, they are falling back on chants and slogans and, you know, this, again, this worldview in which anything opposing America and Israel, you know, surely can't be as bad as those two entities.
00:35:31.860 Are they assisted by the fact that Trump and Netanyahu are leading the charge?
00:35:36.920 You know, what if this had happened earlier?
00:35:39.260 I'm asking you to speculate.
00:35:42.060 And with Biden as president and Shimon Peres as prime minister of Israel.
00:35:47.800 What if it had involved other leadership?
00:35:52.080 Would the people protesting so vehemently right now, would they have had a harder time of it?
00:35:58.360 Well, it's definitely easier for them to hate Netanyahu and Trump, but I don't think a change of leadership would necessarily affect this analysis because, you know, this sort of imperialist worldview, it dates back to the origin of Israel and the whole history of the United States.
00:36:26.260 So I don't know that that would be a game changer necessarily, but it's a lot easier to rally against Trump because of all of his antics and buffoonery and Netanyahu, same thing.
00:36:43.800 Now we've got a lot of antics starting to happen here.
00:36:46.760 You had a fun video to conclude.
00:36:49.320 So we can talk about something that's kind of happy.
00:36:51.240 where you covered a um the launch of a conservative campaign in university rosedale
00:36:59.360 in the center of toronto god bless him good luck to him they're going to need it
00:37:02.880 um and they had their campaign office like in a storage facility so what happened there yeah
00:37:10.200 yeah um that's the first campaign launch i've attended in that kind of building
00:37:15.080 You know, it is a by-election. So voting day, I believe, is April 13th, and they just hit the ground running. It was explained that kind of the logistics of getting an office, like this was, it seemed a more cost-effective solution and easy sign, easy go.
00:37:38.820 So I described it, I think, as a resourceful and utilitarian approach, maybe not typical, but hey, if it's going to get the job done, and who am I to say no? And they let me in. So, you know, I have to do an aesthetic for that.
00:37:56.560 Tell everybody what happened to you going to an NDP event recently.
00:38:00.460 I tried twice to attend a campaign event for Abby Lewis, who I have an interest in.
00:38:09.500 I've, you know, kind of he's adjacent to many of the figures who I document in the protest circuit.
00:38:17.400 And I didn't anticipate having any issue because I've obviously never disrupted an event.
00:38:24.300 I go to observe and document, but not to kind of create problems.
00:38:31.380 But at the door, I was immediately, I was blocked by Joel Harding.
00:38:40.160 They physically blocked you.
00:38:41.720 Physically, literally blocked, right?
00:38:44.460 Who made it very clear.
00:38:46.220 Tell everybody who Joel Harding is.
00:38:48.880 Who is he for people who don't live in the center of the universe?
00:38:52.000 The cold notes on Joel Harden is he is a former MPP, so a member of provincial parliament in Ontario, who I encountered during a series of protests.
00:39:07.260 And in one of those protests, not only did he stand and watch as I was assaulted metres from him and then hid behind a flag when the camera then fixed on him.
00:39:19.480 He, at that same protest, claimed that he was punched in the face for being a supporter of trans people.
00:39:29.700 And it later, his story, you know, was initially supported by his comrades, including other public officials.
00:39:39.060 But when footage emerged, you know, his story changed and the story kept changing.
00:39:46.460 and my footage is used to suggest that perhaps what actually happened with his injury is he hit
00:39:54.320 himself in his face with his megaphone um sorry so we got that on camera and you know the scene
00:40:01.940 that he described in terms of intervening to stop a woman pulling another woman's hair
00:40:08.640 that happened but he wasn't there um so so he blocked you this guy blocked you yeah he took
00:40:16.320 it personally why i mean the conservatives have let you in liberals have let you into events
00:40:21.800 like what the hell is avi lewis's problem why wouldn't he let you in well that's what happens
00:40:27.700 when you have a doorman uh whose ego can't withstand being asked questions in his capacity
00:40:33.640 as an elected official right by a woman so we tried once well but no less for sure uh by a
00:40:40.880 woman and a Jew um so we tried once didn't get in um gave it another shot after I reached out
00:40:48.660 to the campaign didn't hear back um thought okay surely they're not going to accept my registration
00:40:54.320 for an event and make me go all the way to Guelph only to turn me away again uh spoiler alert they
00:41:00.320 did um but you know it's that that itself is the story right so I'm gonna document and report on
00:41:07.920 Whatever comes our way, if it's the substance of a meeting, great. If we aren't able to engage with that substance, then it will be the people holding umbrellas trying to hide the building outside or the grannies who are banging on their pots and, you know, power to them, right?
00:41:28.200 That's their form of expression, and we're going to capture it no matter what, but there is a striking sort of difference between that refusal to engage and almost, you know, as if our presence is a problem versus people who just are open with, you know, these are my concerns, these are my priorities, I would like to share and have this message amplified, and that's all I do, right?
00:41:54.100 It is, it is.
00:41:56.100 Well, they look like jerks.
00:41:57.620 They look like children and you look like the adult.
00:42:00.640 And so good on you.
00:42:01.680 So I encourage everybody to seek out Karima's footage on her platforms where you can see some of the political coverage that she has done in the past few days.
00:42:12.420 In the meantime, for the future days, for the week ahead, have a great one.
00:42:16.460 And thank you.
00:42:18.300 Thanks again.
00:42:24.100 But both the night
00:42:25.900 Builds life
00:42:28.340 Got a head for figures
00:42:35.380 No time for bickerers
00:42:38.760 Or so he said
00:42:40.640 Refers a copy of a woman
00:42:44.100 The one good people
00:42:46.440 Back in my fiscal
00:42:47.900 That's the point where
00:42:49.360 Boy is super
00:42:50.860 Than her
00:42:52.860 Such a rap
00:43:22.860 So let us get talking.
00:43:30.320 We've got some great names.
00:43:31.460 Warren Kinsella, president of Daisy Group,
00:43:33.540 former political strategist for a guy named Jean Chrétien,
00:43:36.120 author of The Hidden Hand,
00:43:38.100 The Information War and the Rise of Anti-Semitic Propaganda,
00:43:41.080 now out on e-book and coming out soon, right?
00:43:47.860 What's the date?
00:43:49.340 Next month.
00:43:49.980 Next month.
00:43:50.660 There we go.
00:43:51.040 Next month.
00:43:52.120 And Kim Wright over at Right Strategies.
00:43:53.940 Do you have a book as well?
00:43:55.560 I do not.
00:43:56.480 I try to stay out of books, and I promised a lot of people I won't write a book.
00:44:00.920 There you go.
00:44:01.780 All right, one with a book, one without, and let's get at it.
00:44:05.420 All right, Pierre Polyev has appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast.
00:44:09.780 This thing gets millions and millions of listeners.
00:44:13.780 It's the number one, if I'm not mistaken, in the world or close to it.
00:44:17.640 in Canada gets about three and a half
00:44:19.740 million viewers and
00:44:21.800 listeners. He is also the first
00:44:23.820 Canadian politician to go on it.
00:44:25.640 So there are a lot of people who are going to freak out. Their heads
00:44:27.820 will blow up. And here's
00:44:29.980 the first little sample of
00:44:31.240 here's the answer he gave when asked why
00:44:33.840 you didn't come on the show when
00:44:35.880 I asked you during the campaign. Here, take a listen.
00:44:37.980 I'm glad we finally did this. Yes, me too.
00:44:40.000 I wanted to do it the first go-around.
00:44:42.020 Yeah, I know. Well, when I got
00:44:43.900 the invitation, we were in the middle of the election
00:44:46.000 And we just don't leave the country during election campaigns.
00:44:49.340 I get it.
00:44:49.780 And the problem we've had is we can't get you to come to Canada.
00:44:53.000 And so we've actually hatched a full strategy to get you into Canada.
00:44:58.700 All right.
00:44:59.760 Look, it's a three hour show.
00:45:02.060 Comes with high risk.
00:45:03.580 Also comes with high, high reward.
00:45:05.800 Bernie Sanders has been on it.
00:45:07.140 Jon Stewart's been on it.
00:45:08.260 You have been a political.
00:45:09.820 Both of you have been in this world, right?
00:45:11.640 I'll start with you on this, Warren.
00:45:14.020 Risk or reward?
00:45:14.940 How do you see this?
00:45:16.000 I didn't see there being a risk. I actually thought it was smart. What's interesting about Rogan, and he is probably the most powerful, you know, voice on the right in the world after President Trump.
00:45:31.600 But his position on Trump and what's happening in the United States has been evolving.
00:45:36.940 And that's helpful, I think, to Polly Ev, because he wants to be able to say to Canadians and Canadian voters,
00:45:43.080 hey, you know, don't make assumptions about my positions on Trump or the way in which his administration is dealing with Canada.
00:45:50.300 So I thought it was fine.
00:45:52.160 I know some people are going to freak out, but those are people who are never going to vote for Polly Ev in the first place.
00:45:57.920 Yeah. Look, the bottom line is, you know, there are millions of people and it's three hours, Kim. So it's actually a really good opportunity for whomever's sitting in that chair to show personality, get into topics and really kind of flesh them out. Things can go disastrously wrong. I don't, pardon me, I don't expect they will because Paul Yev's actually a pretty smart guy and can handle the questions. But is the risk or the reward, which is it for him?
00:46:23.380 Look, unless you totally screw it up and you make yourself look like a jerk, it's fine.
00:46:30.040 It's always take the meeting, always take the podcast.
00:46:33.020 And if you get to be in an audience like Joe Rogan, I think it's always good.
00:46:38.640 I go back to the Kamala Harris folks didn't put her on Joe Rogan, which was dumb on every level.
00:46:46.860 Like absolutely tone deaf, didn't understand the Zeitgeist universe.
00:46:53.380 If you want to see people, you know, in an element, watch a three-hour podcast and see how they react.
00:47:00.820 I think every time you get an opportunity to do those things, it's great.
00:47:04.440 There are people who say to me, why do I do talk radio?
00:47:07.740 Those aren't new Democrat voters.
00:47:09.520 Like, there are people, there are voters, and I'd like to have the conversation.
00:47:13.260 And frankly, if you can't handle the conversation, you shouldn't be in politics.
00:47:17.680 Yeah, don't tell them I bite, Kim.
00:47:19.440 Don't tell them.
00:47:20.080 But, you know, interesting, you know, Warren, the bottom line is, you know, he's got nothing to lose at this point.
00:47:26.820 The election's over. We're probably not having one anytime soon.
00:47:29.460 And if he can punch through with any of his comments to that mega base and, you know, get some talking points in there about the country, that's not a bad thing.
00:47:40.200 it's not and because there's been polling that's been done in the united states in recent weeks
00:47:46.480 showing that particularly among republicans it's not just president trump who's been critical of
00:47:53.480 us so a lot of americans increasingly now too and that's worrisome because you know one day trump
00:47:59.340 will disappear and the lord will take him home or whatever we don't want a repeat of what we've
00:48:05.040 experienced over the last year and a bit so um you know again i i think it was fine for polyev to
00:48:13.240 do this thing it's it is kind of the big leagues and um you know the thing i feel kind of sorry for
00:48:19.780 him yeah you guys are nice i'm mean um i think he's been actually doing any everything right
00:48:25.520 in the past few weeks he does seem to have learned some lessons from the election but he's just not
00:48:32.220 getting any credit for it like there there's an ecos out i know it's ecos but you know 22 point gap
00:48:39.380 i know what are they like warren i'm trying to figure out what world are these people being
00:48:44.700 asked the question in because the world there that mr carney represents of you know judge me at the
00:48:51.140 the grocery store like things aren't going well here so i don't know why he's getting such high
00:48:56.720 grades like frankly i don't care what pauliev does right now go do what you got to do it's
00:49:01.100 Carney, who's supposed to be delivering, and he doesn't get any scrutiny.
00:49:05.240 It's the Trump prism.
00:49:06.700 People look at every issue, whether it's the war in Iran or trade with the Americans or you name it.
00:49:15.020 Everything gets looked at through the prism of Trump.
00:49:17.860 And if you're on the other side of that prism, you're on the other side of the argument,
00:49:21.520 you end up looking good without making any effort.
00:49:24.640 And that's the case with Carney.
00:49:26.040 Well, it gave Trudeau a lot of free reign, too, because, you know,
00:49:30.180 So both of them can send a gift basket to Trump.
00:49:33.540 Let me get into this one.
00:49:34.620 Oh, go ahead.
00:49:35.060 Go ahead.
00:49:35.500 What I was going to say, though, but Peter Pallievich still has a massive problem of authenticity.
00:49:41.140 And people still don't, even in his own party, are like, we're not sure who this guy actually is.
00:49:47.200 He tries to put on happy faces.
00:49:49.200 He tries to put on mean faces.
00:49:50.600 He tries to look like he's a labor guy.
00:49:52.760 Him, it doesn't matter what he does.
00:49:54.940 The bar changes.
00:49:55.980 He does still have a big gap, even within his own party, and having those members cross the floor continues to be a problem on his leadership and his desire to keep people like Andrew Scheer and Chris Workington as House leader and whip, and what does that mean for their caucus going forward.
00:50:15.780 So he needs to do things that make him look somewhat authentic and not mean in the background.
00:50:25.060 And I think that's the challenge. No one knows who this guy really will be if he is ever prime minister.
00:50:31.400 Well, I would say, you know, hopefully if the NDP don't continue down the nutty path, maybe it would help him.
00:50:37.720 But I got to be honest, the direction that party is going, that's not going to help Pierre Polyev either, because they do need a strong NDP.
00:50:47.080 Pierre Polyev has got his own problems.
00:50:49.640 And look, I've been pretty forthright that I'm going to be supporting Rob Ashton, who is legitimately a Labour guy and legitimately can wear work boots that don't still have the price tags on them.
00:51:01.200 You know, I think that, you know, Pierre's lack of authenticity or maybe because people within the conservative world know him still dogs him to this day.
00:51:11.280 So I think that he has his own his own work cut out for him.
00:51:14.380 All right. Let's take a quick break there.
00:51:16.240 I'm a little bit early, but I can't start a new topic.
00:51:18.480 And when we come back, Al-Quds Committee, they want an apology from the premier and a retraction.
00:51:24.020 And that is come hell or high water.
00:51:26.960 He should not do that.
00:51:27.960 But I'll ask you what this means and what we do with this.
00:51:31.600 I say bring it on and let's see the discovery.
00:51:33.800 But we'll talk about that in just a couple of minutes.
00:51:36.820 Here I've got Kim Wright and Warren Kinsella joining me to talk about the big headlines.
00:51:40.600 Back at it here on The Alex Pearson Show.
00:51:56.960 You're listening to Alex Pearson.
00:52:01.560 You sure are. It's great to have you here.
00:52:03.160 You're also listening to Mr. Warren Kinsella and Kim Wright.
00:52:06.140 And I want to dive into this one because the Alcott's committee,
00:52:09.360 they want an apology and a retraction after Premier Ford said the rally was a breeding ground for hate and anti-Semitism,
00:52:16.720 tried to file a court injunction to stop the whole thing.
00:52:19.960 Oh, I'll start with you on this one, Warren.
00:52:21.780 And, you know, if the premier apologizes, well, your thoughts.
00:52:28.060 Well, I have full disclosure.
00:52:29.800 They're come after me, too.
00:52:31.080 They've sent a leave.
00:52:31.560 Why aren't they coming after me?
00:52:33.720 Well, that's next.
00:52:35.100 That's probably next.
00:52:36.920 But they've got a big problem, whether they're going after Doug Ford or they're going after me for their hurt feelings.
00:52:43.380 You know, the lawyer here claims to be acting guys on behalf of the Al-Quds committee.
00:52:50.200 Well, you know, if you're an unincorporated association,
00:52:53.940 you're not allowed to sue anybody, certainly not for libel.
00:52:58.120 So I don't understand how they even have standing to fire off letters
00:53:02.960 like they did to the premier.
00:53:04.360 So I don't think he's losing any sleep about it.
00:53:07.240 And him describing, you know, the Al-Quds protests,
00:53:12.080 which have been taking place around the world since 1979, is hateful.
00:53:16.680 That is as accurate as you can possibly get.
00:53:19.580 Like, they are hateful. They were a conception of Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979, designed to demonize and isolate and delegitimize Jews in the Jewish state.
00:53:31.840 So what he said was truthful, and I don't think he's got anything to worry about.
00:53:36.460 I would say go for it, Kim, because I also agree with Warren, but I'd love to see the discovery. Let's go. Let's see who you are, who's paying your bills.
00:53:45.980 Let's find out all we need to know about Al-Quds, which has been, as you as you hear, Kim, morphed into an anti or a pro-Palestinian thing.
00:53:53.720 Like it's it is what it is, but they get away with a lot of it.
00:53:57.240 It's a very manipulative thing they're doing.
00:53:59.920 Yeah, I don't think the premier is going to apologize.
00:54:03.780 Frankly, he doesn't apologize for the things he should apologize for.
00:54:07.220 He's certainly not going to apologize for this.
00:54:09.140 So I think there I think I have a better chance of being six feet tall, which if you were if listeners ever meet me in real life, I am very far away from being six feet tall.
00:54:19.900 And then they have us getting an apology from the premier.
00:54:22.920 Yeah. Well, again, yeah, go ahead.
00:54:24.600 You know, on this one, like the Elk Hood's committee, I think, is trying to distance itself from the avowedly anti-Semitic signage that was shown in Toronto on the weekend.
00:54:39.140 And because I think there are going to be some promotion of hatred charges, criminal charges laid against those people.
00:54:46.020 But I mean, there was a, you know, I've got a picture of her on my column and on my website.
00:54:54.140 A woman in the Kordanoff area where all the leaders were, the Al-Quds rally, broad daylight.
00:55:00.240 She was in front of the Israeli embassy.
00:55:02.280 Her sign says, we will knock on the gates of heaven with the skulls of Zionists, meaning Jews.
00:55:08.360 like that's that's a hateful sign that's a threatening sign and the al-Quds people need
00:55:14.540 to answer for that well it would be nice if someone had to at some point but the bottom line
00:55:19.540 is i mean they're they're i wouldn't say it's a turning point kim but i mean this weekend was
00:55:24.560 i don't know if it's like a a worse thing but these these tropes came out that that there are
00:55:30.940 the tropes that you would see in the rising of hitler right in those 1930s the caricatures of
00:55:36.860 the hook-nosed Jews sitting on the money.
00:55:38.840 I mean, they're really very ominous.
00:55:41.480 And out they are on the roads and streets.
00:55:43.700 And once upon a time, Kim, I mean, one swastika at the convoy
00:55:47.540 set the country on fire.
00:55:49.980 And I'm like, that's not anything to what we have been seeing
00:55:53.720 over the last two and a half years
00:55:55.480 that has just been completely met with a shrug.
00:55:58.280 Yeah, you know, I think a lot of people
00:56:00.760 who have thought about this in any way,
00:56:03.180 in particular since October 7th,
00:56:05.380 You always wondered, how did in the 30s, how did it happen? How did it happen? How did people fall for the propaganda? How did this become a thing? And what we've seen over the last two years is clearly how it has continued to be insidious.
00:56:23.240 And, you know, the hatred of people simply for being Jewish is astounding.
00:56:33.120 And we see it every day.
00:56:34.420 And I live near the Israeli consulate, so I certainly see it every week during the protests.
00:56:42.040 But I think we all need to take a step back and figure out how the hell we got here.
00:56:48.220 How do we get ourselves out of this?
00:56:49.700 because I look to our politicians and our decision-makers,
00:56:54.360 and I'm disappointed in a number of them on this,
00:56:58.320 and I look to my fellow communities, you know,
00:57:00.980 friends of mine in the Jewish community used to say, you know,
00:57:03.920 if this was the days of Anne Frank, who would have hid me?
00:57:08.820 And I used to think, how could that be a question of your friends
00:57:12.760 and family and neighbors?
00:57:14.100 And now it's clear how it is, how we are in this space.
00:57:17.080 It's amazing that the conversations of, well,
00:57:19.700 Could we knock at their door?
00:57:21.260 And we've had conversations like this.
00:57:22.780 Whose door could we knock at?
00:57:24.000 And it is a conversation that happens because to your point,
00:57:27.380 like if you ever wanted to know how we got to Hitler,
00:57:30.940 we're watching it live.
00:57:32.280 I just thought maybe, Warren, maybe someone would stop it
00:57:35.700 and wake up and say, hey, hold on a second.
00:57:38.080 This is not a thing, but we haven't seen that yet.
00:57:41.160 And I talk about it in my book, which is, as you pointed out,
00:57:44.480 it was coming out shortly.
00:57:46.300 And, you know, the campaign that's been run against Jews
00:57:49.640 in the Jewish state, and Kim spoke about it
00:57:51.740 so well, is
00:57:53.500 I've been evil
00:57:55.640 and malevolent, but a really well-run
00:57:57.620 campaign.
00:57:59.880 The campaign manager has been
00:58:01.740 Iran, and the banker has been Qatar,
00:58:04.100 and the campaign co-chairs
00:58:05.760 have been Russia and China, and the front lines
00:58:07.900 are this alphabet
00:58:09.740 soup of
00:58:10.940 NGOs and non-profits
00:58:13.900 and charities throughout Canada
00:58:15.680 and the United States and Europe.
00:58:17.340 And they've done a really good job at at isolating Israel and delegitimizing Israel, but also making lives miserable for Jews throughout Western democracy.
00:58:28.560 And it's incumbent on all of us. I'm speaking now to non-Jews listening to this.
00:58:33.440 It's incumbent on all of us if we value our democracy to take this seriously and fight back because they're they may be after the Jews today.
00:58:42.900 They're after our democracy and the rest of us tomorrow.
00:58:45.620 Oh, yeah. It only starts with the Jews, as you well know. But, you know, here it is. I mean, there was polling done a couple of days ago, released, Kim, and it shows like in the younger generations, like they are pro-Iran regime, like 20 percent of like 18 to 34.
00:59:03.180 they're all on the side of the Iranian regime and it's very evident when you look at the older
00:59:08.480 cohorts that if you had history and you've got parents you know that have dealt with terror wars
00:59:13.560 and that there's clearly more of a knowledge but in the younger cohorts they are all in on on this
00:59:20.060 and they don't know their history which really begs the question are we going to bring history
00:59:24.920 back because we've completely gotten rid of it in our schools and the amount of studying the three
00:59:30.060 of us would have gotten which would have been up to 500 hours in school it's barely 100 hours
00:59:34.780 now for kids like one course i think in grade 10 but in that time to bring it back well i think
00:59:41.280 that's i think that's the case i mean we we saw a couple of years ago that there was this
00:59:46.320 trend i guess you would call it over tiktok and other platforms that the osama bin laden
00:59:53.380 letter to Americans was, you know, just a revelation to a generation who should have
01:00:00.660 known better, but clearly do not. And those young people are in universities and such. So
01:00:08.560 how we got here, you know, we stopped having real honest conversations about real honest things,
01:00:15.080 including history. And we need to get back to that.
01:00:20.720 Yeah, I don't know.
01:00:21.820 I don't know if we can, Warren, but I would say that they, I think in education, the Ford
01:00:26.680 government, whoever starts taking over, I do think we need to revisit this because history
01:00:30.360 has been so watered down and it is so crucial.
01:00:34.160 I mean, we lose our history, forget our history.
01:00:36.640 We're doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
01:00:38.760 And I don't think we've learned.
01:00:40.840 I agree.
01:00:41.800 You know, we need to beef up our curriculum because so much of our history is being forgotten
01:00:46.560 or simply not taught to young people.
01:00:48.380 But guys, like 41% of Gen Z in Canada, so 18 to the age of 24, support Hamas.
01:00:56.300 I know, it's crazy.
01:00:57.180 That's 3 million people.
01:00:59.420 And the reason why it's not so much a failure of the educational system is because they're receiving information about the world and history through the prism of TikTok or YouTube videos or what have you.
01:01:11.660 And that's where the bad guys are. They are all, by a factor of 90 to 1, they overwhelm pro-Israel and pro-democracy messaging with the bad stuff.
01:01:22.920 And that's where we need to fight, because I think that's where the real battle is.
01:01:26.440 Yeah, I tend to agree, although I do think some of it is at home, where parents just don't have the education to correct it or don't see the value in it.
01:01:33.980 and those 3 million will turn into 6 million,
01:01:37.280 will turn into 12 million, and they get older,
01:01:39.560 and God knows, well, I'll be long dead, but our kids won't.
01:01:43.000 I'm out of time, guys.
01:01:44.040 I hate to say that, but I appreciate yours.
01:01:46.740 Thank you.
01:02:03.980 Just for good luck, it must be more
01:02:06.640 At least 17's a song
01:02:08.960 This is 77, baby, heaven
01:02:13.560 It's like quite big, just fake
01:02:18.380 There's more to go, oh, oh, oh
01:02:22.560 It's so obvious, well it's all right
01:02:27.220 Can't wait for 78
01:02:29.540 get into that here we got people dying here we got people dying for want of beds and we're giving
01:02:43.200 money to the foreigners no way it'd be canada first and canada only that's what i am a nationalist
01:02:50.100 i just say what i think and i it's the way i think you could say it's bigotry if you want
01:02:55.980 I don't think it is. I'm pro-Canadian. More so than I'm anti-Soviet or anti-Sweep. I wish more Canadians were like me.
01:03:06.200 Okay, there you go. Don Cherry, of course, the outspoken hockey commentator, big part of Canadian culture for so long on Hockey Night in Canada and on TV for decades.
01:03:18.880 And now we're talking about the controversy that's lighting up Canada.
01:03:23.260 Should Don Cherry receive the Order of Canada?
01:03:27.740 Now, we all know that Cherry has found himself in hot water many times over the years
01:03:34.760 for criticizing foreign-born hockey players, as you heard partly in that clip there.
01:03:40.620 Saying that women reporters should not be allowed in hockey dressing rooms.
01:03:45.360 Of course, the big one is when he was fired by Sportsnet after he criticized immigrants to Canada for not wearing a poppy on Remembrance Day.
01:03:58.020 Now, though, we see the campaign to give Don Cherry the Order of Canada.
01:04:04.780 Ontario Premier Doug Ford recently awarded Cherry, personally awarded Cherry with the Order of Ontario.
01:04:12.160 Alberta Premier Danielle Smith, she believes Cherry should receive the Order of Canada.
01:04:20.060 And Federal Conservative leader Pierre Polyev, also calling for Cherry to get the Order of Canada.
01:04:29.180 Not everyone in the Federal Conservative Party agrees with that, including some Conservatives in Quebec,
01:04:35.160 who are not happy with Cherry's past criticism of Francophone hockey players.
01:04:40.540 All right. Should Cherry get the Order of Canada? Let's discuss it with my guest now, Warren Kinsella. Warren is the CEO of the Daisy Group and author of the forthcoming book, The Hidden Hand on Anti-Semitism and Propaganda. Warren, thanks a lot for coming on today.
01:04:59.180 Thanks for having me, man.
01:05:00.740 You bet, Warren. Thanks a lot for doing it. Okay, everyone's talking about this now. Should Cherry get the Order of Canada? A long history of controversy.
01:05:09.760 Where do you weigh in on this one, Warren?
01:05:11.860 Is it time to give him the Order of Canada?
01:05:14.600 I think it doesn't matter what I think or anybody else thinks.
01:05:18.100 I think it's doomed.
01:05:19.600 Like, the background I can give you is I was great friends with a former
01:05:25.040 Governor General, Romeo LeBlanc, who, and the Governor General's office
01:05:29.940 runs the Order of Canada thing.
01:05:32.580 and the one thing i learned mike um from uh romeo and what we've seen many times since
01:05:40.440 if you start running a campaign for somebody to get the order of canada or even for yourself to
01:05:47.400 get it it's doomed it's just not going to go anywhere yeah and it amazed me that the because
01:05:53.480 they just don't like it they they think it's it shouldn't be sold off like something off the back
01:05:57.720 of a pickup truck and um it amazed me that poliev gave the green light to this you know some back
01:06:04.120 bencher in his caucus um because you know harper stephen harper joe clark all of those guys who
01:06:11.220 had order of canada tell you don't don't run a campaign just be quiet about it be respectful
01:06:18.080 about the process and you may be pleasantly surprised you may get it so i you know the i
01:06:23.440 actually feel sorry for Don Cherry here because I think he's never going to get it now because of
01:06:28.200 what the Conservative Party have done. They've just made a mess of it. Wow. Okay, that's really
01:06:33.380 interesting analysis on it, Warren, because you're saying now that by Polyev going to bat for Don
01:06:40.320 Cherry, and I guess Danielle Smith in Alberta too, you think this is actually going to backfire
01:06:44.960 and this actually increases the odds that he won't get it. Yeah, they just in the Rideau Hall,
01:06:50.600 you know where the the bureaucrats who run this and it is a very secretive process because they
01:06:56.300 don't want it to be exactly what's happened with cherry where it becomes this like it's like an
01:07:02.340 auction house you know and people are bidding on it and putting their name on a petition like if
01:07:07.140 you do stuff like that well then the order of canada loses a lot of its value it loses a lot
01:07:13.580 of its reputation. So, you know, it's supposed to be a serious kind of professional process
01:07:19.980 and doing it the way the Tories are doing it with the petition. And, you know, they're getting
01:07:24.900 emails from people. And I rather suspect, Mike, that some of those people are going to get
01:07:30.180 fundraising appeals from the Conservative Party by handing over their emails. It's just all wrong,
01:07:35.440 you know. And like I say, I think it's really doomed it probably for Cherry. Not so much the
01:07:41.480 comments that he's made in the past I always personally thought you know when I would watch
01:07:45.920 games he was entertaining he's like you know Donald Trump can be entertaining sometimes
01:07:51.240 and he was probably harmless a lot of the time but just trying to get him rewarded in this way
01:08:00.940 this is the wrong way of going about it. Okay I took a look at the eligibility for the Order of
01:08:07.180 Canada this morning on the Governor General of Canada website, and it says that the Order of
01:08:12.480 Canada is for living Canadians for outstanding achievement, dedication to the community,
01:08:19.600 and service to the nation. Well, you can certainly say that Cherry has an outstanding achievement in
01:08:25.220 his career. You could certainly say he was dedicated to the community in a lot of ways
01:08:29.980 for his supports of charity, minor hockey, and of course to veterans, service to the nation.
01:08:35.020 but this is the one that got him in trouble so let's go back to the poppy
01:08:39.040 comment here and this is what got him fired and I wonder if you what you
01:08:43.080 think of this Warren and if you think this was where Jerry maybe crossed the
01:08:47.920 line I live in Mississauga nobody wears a very few people wear pop poppy
01:08:53.500 downtown Toronto forget it downtown Toronto nobody wears a poppy now you go
01:08:57.680 to the small cities and you know you know those the rolls on rolls you people
01:09:02.560 love you you that come here whatever it is you love our way of life you love our milk and honey
01:09:07.840 at least you could pay a couple of bucks for poppies or something like that these guys pay
01:09:13.380 for your way of life that you enjoy in canada okay so you people you people who come here
01:09:19.160 um i think calling you know i think clearly calling out immigrants to canada do you think
01:09:24.260 that disqualifies them i don't know but it sure didn't help i mean it was stupid right it was
01:09:31.280 stupid you know a lot of the time with cherry you needed kind of a rosetta stone to figure out what
01:09:36.560 he was saying you know if you listen to that quote you know is he talking about people from
01:09:41.260 downtown toronto but and and the thing is you know i was living in downtown toronto at the time
01:09:46.400 unfortunately like he he's not telling the truth people were wearing poppies all the time in the
01:09:52.460 month of november sometimes you know at the back end of october so he it wasn't it wasn't true what
01:09:58.820 he said and it really felt like he was punching down mike he was punching down the people who
01:10:04.900 didn't have a spot on a national sports broadcast and couldn't you know defend themselves and it
01:10:11.060 was just it was kind of crummy was that enough to sink him i don't know i'd probably you know
01:10:16.400 calling people pukes and calling quebecs quebecers a bunch of whiners and the stuff you pointed out
01:10:22.280 about women reporters, you know, it all kind of adds up and probably doesn't help.
01:10:27.960 But I think, honestly, him not getting the Order of Canada, because I predict to you now he's not
01:10:32.560 going to get it, it's because the Conservatives ran it like a campaign instead of treating it
01:10:38.160 like a respectful process. Okay, Don Cherry did receive the Order of Ontario. Now let's have a
01:10:44.660 listen to Ontario Premier Doug Ford, who's a big Cherry fan. Let's listen. He's given back the minor
01:10:50.360 hockey for for so many uh years and helped out and so many charitable organizations he has massive
01:10:58.240 support out there and uh i i support him so good for don okay so he has massive support his work
01:11:06.380 for charity his work for minor hockey but again do you think like a guy like doug ford when he
01:11:11.100 goes public and supporting cherry you think actually that sets back the chances of him
01:11:14.540 getting the order of canada no no no not at all i think the reverse is true okay i think everything
01:11:20.260 that Ford said is true it's defensible Don Cherry has done a lot of good work for charities and he's
01:11:27.100 helped people out and you know he's done a lot of great things for our national sport but in the
01:11:33.280 Ontario case they didn't run a petition to get him the order of Ontario right they just made a quiet
01:11:40.100 decision to do it and like when you turn it into a show business it's like you know it's like going
01:11:45.440 a car, you know, a carny barking at you, you know, step right up and sign for Don here.
01:11:50.660 People just, it's, I don't know, it's kind of not a Canadian way of doing it.
01:11:55.100 And I, what's interesting to me is that Polly Ev initially supported what his backbencher
01:12:00.540 was doing here.
01:12:01.520 And now he's gone quiet on it because members of his own caucus are saying, hey, this is
01:12:06.120 a bad idea.
01:12:07.500 Warren, thanks for coming on to talk about this today.
01:12:15.440 It's true, darling, I want your home
01:12:21.240 I'll be your day forever
01:12:22.820 I'll learn to get these out of you
01:12:25.360 Until they split the atom
01:12:27.500 It's all in a toy
01:12:29.200 And there's a place left
01:12:30.380 There's a place left at all
01:12:31.900 I know I'm right
01:12:33.740 Because when I'm gone
01:12:34.880 There's a place left at all
01:12:45.440 Great to have you here on this very busy Monday back.
01:12:52.600 So the annual Al-Quds hate fest has now wrapped up for another year.
01:12:56.820 And a lot of people in hindsight talking about it as it was a success.
01:13:00.680 You know, no violence, just two arrests.
01:13:03.660 But if that's all that's being seen, I mean, it's the fact that it happened at all that's the failure.
01:13:10.060 The Ford government tried to get an injunction, which he announced Friday.
01:13:13.400 It was quashed by the judge Saturday, which he said it hadn't met the threshold.
01:13:18.960 Well, Sam Adewin was one of the applicants on the court order on this injunction.
01:13:24.360 And they are a terrorist group in this country, which is just absurd.
01:13:28.240 Right. If the protest being, you know, sought an injunction for this to stop this thing, if that was the goal, because it glorifies terror.
01:13:38.420 and one of the applicants is Samadouan, an actual terror group,
01:13:42.800 how on earth could the judge have ignored this, right?
01:13:46.500 I mean, somehow it's been spun into some pro-Palestinian thing
01:13:49.280 ignoring what it actually is,
01:13:50.840 which is a state-sponsored march for the Iranian regime
01:13:53.880 spewing hate and threats to the West and Jews.
01:13:58.040 And so, look, the ruling against the Ford government
01:14:01.020 means that our charter now protects terrorist propaganda.
01:14:04.480 Let me bring in Mr. Warren Kinsella, Daisy Group,
01:14:07.260 Former advisor to Jean Chrétien, but also author of The Hidden Hand,
01:14:10.860 The Information War and the Rise of Anti-Semitic Propaganda.
01:14:14.660 Warren, your book's not even out in hard copy, I think, until May 13th.
01:14:17.920 And, you know, it's so timely, it's frightening, you know, that it's needed.
01:14:24.160 But it's needed, clearly.
01:14:27.060 But I'm confused at this one.
01:14:29.800 Yeah, it's depressing how timely it is.
01:14:34.120 I was kind of hoping that things would settle down a bit.
01:14:38.940 You know, it's been awful for the Jewish community and allies of the Jewish community for two and a half years, since October 7th.
01:14:46.800 And it's just getting worse all the time.
01:14:50.000 And, you know, we had three synagogues shut up in Toronto.
01:14:53.140 We had the Detroit attack on the synagogue, Norway, Rotterdam.
01:14:59.100 Like, that's all just last week.
01:15:00.880 Not to mention the Iranians themselves, right?
01:15:03.640 and the Iranians themselves and this Al-Quds hate rally, as you pointed out.
01:15:09.820 Like, it should not have happened.
01:15:11.340 Like, there's a Muslim mayor of London in England who stopped it from happening in his city
01:15:17.280 because of the problems associated with it.
01:15:19.720 You just need to go online, and I warn everybody in advance,
01:15:22.800 just look at some of the signs that these scumbags were holding up
01:15:26.940 in the city of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, on the weekend.
01:15:30.940 like it was stuff straight out of the history books anti-semitic propaganda the stuff going
01:15:37.680 back to the protocols of the learned elders of zion that's the kind of stuff that was being
01:15:42.740 shown without interference on the streets of toronto this weekend the this event was a hate
01:15:50.280 rally i've covered as you know alex i've covered ku klux klan rallies where they have cross burnings
01:15:56.140 qualitatively meaningfully i don't see any difference between those things and what took
01:16:02.540 place in toronto on the weekend right i don't either and yet um one is allowed and and frankly
01:16:08.900 people don't care warren what's displayed at these things and and that's just what is so troubling
01:16:14.100 is that it's been completely normalized things that on you know november 11th when people say
01:16:19.360 lest we forget never forget all these things and i'm like they're right here in front of you all
01:16:23.780 of these things are happening in front of you. Judges are protecting these things under our
01:16:28.280 charter. I mean, it's insane. It is insane. And what's even more insane for the good and decent
01:16:35.840 people out there, I believe they are still out there. I think they've been intimidated into
01:16:40.180 silence because the Toronto Police Services and Olivia Chow have allowed this stuff to continue
01:16:45.820 for month after month, year after year. But this thing that took place on the weekend that was
01:16:51.820 created by the iranian extremist terrorist supporting regime right they didn't have a
01:16:58.800 permit like the santa claus parade needs a permit the rotarians need a permit these guys were allowed
01:17:05.020 to go ahead without a permit well they had planning help by the police so and this is what i don't
01:17:09.360 understand is it that the police don't understand what glorifying terrorism is do the judges not
01:17:15.580 understand what glorifying terrorism is and given there was a terrorist group on the application
01:17:22.120 this is what's so insane to me like i feel like we're being punked or gaslit it does feel like
01:17:28.020 that and like there was ample evidence and i use the word evidence deliberately to justify the
01:17:34.700 injunction that the ford government was seeking i agree with everybody they should have moved sooner
01:17:39.860 than they did but at least that they moved because you know to get a um a proactive injunction a
01:17:46.140 prohibitory injunction as they're called you've got to have evidence and like if you look back
01:17:51.180 at the past al-quds events parades riots whatever you want to call them like along with not having
01:17:58.900 a permit there's been unlawful assembly there's been intimidation there's been assaults there's
01:18:05.040 been threatening. There's been vandalism, rioting, obstruction of justice, obstruction of peace
01:18:09.860 officers, wearing masks during offenses, failure to disperse mischief and willful promotion of
01:18:16.120 hatred. All of those are crimes. All of those things I've just cited are crimes. Those are
01:18:21.140 things that have happened previously at the Al-Quds events. Those should have been used in
01:18:26.840 evidence to apply for an injunction to stop this thing from happening on the weekend. And it didn't
01:18:33.020 happen. And as you point out, even worse, a designated terrorist group, Samadun, was part
01:18:40.000 of the application, and the judge thought that was okay. And like, you know, if the judge wasn't
01:18:44.860 the right judge, and I would argue he was not, if you look at his history before he became a judge,
01:18:50.180 there's some real problems there. That should have been argued by the Crown. They should have said,
01:18:55.520 you know, with the greatest respect, Your Honour, we don't think you're the right person to hear
01:18:59.820 this application, but they went ahead anyway. So lots of mistakes made on the side of the people
01:19:05.300 who should have been on the right side. And, you know, hopefully this doesn't happen again, but
01:19:09.720 I'm not holding my breath. Well, I'm not either. And again, I think that's why, you know, Ford can
01:19:14.280 appeal because don't let it set precedent. But again, you know, not surprisingly, Olivia Chow,
01:19:19.820 nowhere to be seen. She comes out after the fact for the easy stuff. And I don't, the Jewish
01:19:24.300 community doesn't even care at this point. But the point is it'll be more of these things. And so
01:19:29.500 many have it as a freedom of speech thing but but even worse listening to my colleagues in a
01:19:34.200 business where they should understand what's going on and just blindly reporting you know
01:19:39.400 they've morphed it into a pro-palestinian uh parade um you know everyone was well behaved like
01:19:45.240 it's complete i don't know what event they were covering and i don't even get the sense that they
01:19:49.760 understand what they're covering and that is scary because the propaganda which your book delves into
01:19:55.300 quite deeply you know it's a thing but it is being ignored here it is being ignored and like it's not
01:20:03.620 you don't need to be a political scientist or a forensic cop to figure out what happened on the
01:20:09.360 weekend like i said off the top just go online and take a look at some of the signs these guys
01:20:15.000 were holding up you know al-quds refers to jerusalem why does it refer to jerusalem well
01:20:20.540 The Iranian regime said, we want to expel Jews from Jerusalem and from ancient Israel.
01:20:27.840 That's the objective of this rally.
01:20:29.540 And if you look at the signs, they were designed to demonize and express hatred towards the Jewish people.
01:20:38.120 That should not be happening in Canada in 2026 or in 1926.
01:20:44.240 It should not be happening now in our country.
01:20:47.900 But it is. And our country, along with Norway, Spain and Ireland, is one of the four countries that's got the worst anti-Semitism problem in the world.
01:20:57.680 Measured objectively with statistics, we're one of the worst in the world.
01:21:01.680 Yeah. Well, hey, when an Iranian regime cleric gets off a plane on Friday and doesn't even try to hide who they are and then shows up at the parade to walk in it and is treated like a hero.
01:21:12.420 Boy, oh boy, we got problems. Appreciate it.
01:21:15.100 And you could have done something about that very quickly.
01:21:18.280 We've used it in the past.
01:21:19.820 It was used during the convoy stuff.
01:21:21.780 If they think that you're likely to come and commit an offence,
01:21:24.600 they bar you from the country.
01:21:25.880 Why wasn't that guy barred from the country?
01:21:28.040 So lots of questions, not many answers forthcoming.
01:21:30.940 Not holding my breath.
01:21:32.580 Thank you, Warren.
01:21:34.080 Thanks, my friend.
01:21:35.220 All right.
01:21:37.220 Here it is again.
01:21:41.220 And it's called...
01:21:43.100 One, two, XO!
01:21:45.100 I saw you in a Mac
01:21:58.820 Kissing a man
01:21:59.860 I saw you in a Mac
01:22:01.140 Kissing a man
01:22:02.180 I saw you in a Mac
01:22:03.400 Kissing a man
01:22:04.440 Kissing a Mac
01:22:06.840 Yeah
01:22:15.100 I saw you in a mag
01:22:21.900 Kissing a man
01:22:22.940 Smoking a bag
01:22:26.460 Kissing a man
01:22:27.580 Kissing a bag
01:22:29.840 I've got you in the corner
01:22:59.840 We'll be right back.
01:23:29.840 guys. Sorry. I'm a Luddite. That's okay. Welcome. Welcome. We were just talking March Madness a
01:23:35.800 little bit. Do you follow March Madness at all? I do. I used to actually have Raptor Seasons
01:23:41.180 tickets too, and they got too expensive and they weren't winning. Well, the team that every
01:23:47.640 Canadian should be following, although I just haven't even looked to see if they're still in
01:23:50.500 it, is Long Island University because there's five Canadians on that team. And they made the
01:23:55.420 tournament for the first time after, I don't think they won a game for two years. And now
01:23:59.620 they, they, they clinched a 16 seed. So I think, unfortunately, Ben,
01:24:03.920 they lost what was, what was be calling the ice tea bowl.
01:24:07.500 I think it's the ice tea battle between long Island and Arizona.
01:24:11.100 Yeah. They're up against the Wildcats. That was going to be a tough one.
01:24:13.680 But anyway, listen, they can't, you can't take it away from them.
01:24:16.620 They made the tournament. Let's talk about Pierre Poliev.
01:24:20.100 I saw Warren that you had some positive things to say about his,
01:24:23.500 his appearance. I think, I think a sober minded people who aren't clouded by
01:24:28.780 their annoyance of him or hatred of him or or whatever it is can look at that and say yeah
01:24:35.100 job well done yeah i mean a few things number one it could have gone wrong in all kinds of different
01:24:42.280 ways um you know that's one of the reasons why rogan's got the most popular broadcast in the
01:24:47.660 world you know just ahead of ben moroni is um you know it's unpredictable yeah what can happen
01:24:55.040 there and so it could have gone sideways and it didn't he uh did really well secondly um you know
01:25:03.440 he one of the things drives me crazy i don't know about you guys is when politicians go abroad
01:25:09.920 whether they're liberals tories new democrats and crap on the country and crap on their opponents
01:25:16.240 and it just to me it feels kind of un-canadian and not only did he not do that he talked about
01:25:22.880 how he's in touch with the prime minister by text and i think that was that was news actually i
01:25:27.520 surprised a lot of people and the third and the final thing um he's doing what guys like me said
01:25:33.120 he should do yeah which is yes oppose be the leader of the opposition but be professional
01:25:38.640 be reasonable you know don't be trumpy and that's what he's been doing and the only thing i feel
01:25:45.520 sorry for the guy because he's not getting credit for it in the polls but this outing it was a good
01:25:49.760 good one for him yeah and and chris you know a lot of people said you know he was road testing
01:25:54.000 a new tone he was trying out some things it seemed to me that he was very comfortable in this uh
01:26:00.900 wearing wearing this new coat right like that whatever he was road testing before it seems to
01:26:06.120 have stuck because of over two and a half hours it didn't break it wasn't an act it did seem like
01:26:12.420 there was something different there was a shift that has taken hold in him and and i and the other
01:26:17.600 thing I'll say to you, Chris, and I'll hand it over to you, is it felt like when he said he's
01:26:23.840 supporting the prime minister, it felt like in that moment, that's exactly what he was doing.
01:26:28.060 So the prime minister is the tip of the sword and he's out there talking to the powers that be in
01:26:32.760 Washington. And meanwhile, he's doing an admirable job promoting the country, selling the idea of
01:26:39.680 free trade, selling the idea of getting rid of tariffs and doing so at a mass market level.
01:26:45.540 yeah I think you're spot on Ben I think you know there was there was a reason in the last election
01:26:51.800 I think there were so many that were kind of calling on Pierre to to do this show because I
01:26:56.080 think it's just so natural for him like to anybody the idea of Pierre talking for two and a half
01:27:00.620 hours and his ability to be a storyteller I don't think should surprise anybody I think there's no
01:27:05.120 question to me it was it was clear that he I don't want to say road testing a new tone it just it
01:27:11.560 felt like he had learned a lesson yeah yeah you know I'm not sure he would have taken that same
01:27:15.820 tone right had he done this a year ago I agree had he you know had he gone on the Rogan podcast
01:27:20.780 when there was a lot of people saying you know when Rogan I believe first put out the the request
01:27:24.680 for him to come on I don't know if that would have been the same tone a year ago and so I think that
01:27:29.600 does show that you know to many of his critics and there's a lot of people out there saying he
01:27:33.580 hasn't learned his lesson I I think you watch that for two and a half three hours um you know
01:27:38.760 he's deserving of all the positive uh you know praise he's getting for that interview uh because
01:27:44.900 i it is so easy to have gone down there and sat with joe rogan and criticized every aspect of
01:27:51.560 the canadian government and canadian politics and how he was treated or the media this and the media
01:27:56.320 and he just didn't do that yeah and and and warren you know i contend that if this new newer
01:28:04.240 brighter, shinier version of Pierre does charm people who said they would never vote for him.
01:28:11.100 It's going to take at least a year. And the way I'm seeing is like, first of all, I'll never
01:28:15.120 predict anything in politics again after the past couple of years we went through. It'll never
01:28:18.680 happen. But I can see a scenario where our prime minister gets his finally gets us a trade deal.
01:28:27.240 Perhaps the tariffs come down and then and then the big bad specter of Donald Trump is gone.
01:28:32.440 Right. And then it's all about. Yes. Then it's all about the performance of the economy, which, as of right now, is not not any better than it was a year ago, which is fine.
01:28:41.520 It's going to take some time. I'm willing to concede him that. But if he gets his deal and he will get the credit for it as he deserves.
01:28:46.860 And I think Pierre would would agree with that. Then what then then then what's the reason for the economy if it's not if it hasn't improved?
01:28:55.620 And if that takes a year, well, then I think the dynamics could change. I'm not saying they will.
01:29:02.440 Well, yeah. I mean, Polyev's got age on his time. He's younger than Carney. And like you say,
01:29:08.720 there's a lot of expectations for Carney. Carney is massively ahead in the polls at the moment.
01:29:14.320 He is at the present one of the most popular prime ministers in recent history. But, you know,
01:29:22.240 Pierre Polyev was that far ahead himself, ahead of Justin Trudeau. So, you know, things can change
01:29:28.680 on a turn on a dime in canadian politics these days so i think you're absolutely right you know
01:29:33.760 all of the commentators that i've seen including the ones been super critical of them said if if
01:29:38.900 this been the pierre polyev we saw during the election he would have won i'm not sure that's
01:29:44.680 the case i think donald trump is his biggest enemy not himself but you know this was uh he's doing
01:29:51.060 what he was supposed to do he was supposed to learn the lessons of the election now i think he
01:29:55.500 Yes. And Chris, you know, I was reminded when I saw that poll that said if an election were held
01:30:00.540 today, the liberals would win 200 plus seats. And it took me right back to Paul Martin, who when
01:30:06.560 he when he assumed control of the party after your boss, Warren, I looked at my dad, I said,
01:30:11.880 dad, they're saying he's going to win more seats than you did. They're saying he's got a super
01:30:15.880 majority. And I don't think I'd ever heard that expression before. Super majority. And my dad
01:30:19.640 said, well, that's entirely possible. And then he said two things, one of which is applicable,
01:30:23.760 could be applicable here he said one um just because you were a great number two doesn't
01:30:27.960 mean you're a good number one and and two he said stranger things have happened and somebody not
01:30:32.720 living up to expectation and and i that's that that's sage words from uh mbm whose birthday by
01:30:38.900 the way is today and uh and yeah i'm i'm i'm curious i'm that i think i think pierre is playing
01:30:46.320 the long game in the hopes that the simple passage of time and and this new it's new to some
01:30:53.420 but this new version of him will soften people's opinion on him who've said they'll never vote for
01:30:59.680 him because they don't like him. I think you're probably spot on, Ben. I think, you know, Warren
01:31:05.580 certainly touched on something here that, you know, the challenge and the opportunity for
01:31:11.320 Pierre Polyev is how long does Trump stay in office? Obviously, we've got the fixed election
01:31:16.260 when he should leave. You know, it seems like he's toned down the rhetoric that he's going to
01:31:19.820 seek a third term but I but I think there's something to be said about there's all the
01:31:24.240 control that's still in in Prime Minister Carney's hands and I think that's the real challenge that
01:31:29.000 Pierre is going to have is I agree if we're in a world where three years from now we're heading to
01:31:33.980 the next fixed election because Mark Carney secured a majority and he seeks out the full term
01:31:38.780 then I think there's a good chance that Canadians you know Trump will be out of office for a year
01:31:43.240 and it will really finally be a comparison between Mark Carney and Pierre Polyev I think if I'm
01:31:48.240 poliev and the conservative camp the thing that scares me the most is does mark carney opportunistically
01:31:54.340 try to pull the plug again sometime between now and trump's leave from office yeah so that they
01:32:00.140 can play the same boogeyman card that they were able to do so successfully in the last election
01:32:04.240 yes that's the case i'm not sure to to warren's point it's it's not pierre that's his own enemy
01:32:09.840 it's it's trump and that's you know that's where i thought this was a great first start i think the
01:32:13.820 line about cutting the stuff out was a great message change, but that's the real challenge
01:32:18.520 ahead of him. All right. Well, we are going to pick this up after the break. I've got a couple
01:32:22.440 more things I want to talk about with Pierre, but then there's a story about how the Prime
01:32:28.100 Minister's residence is not secured. A shocker that we punted the ball, and yet again, we're
01:32:33.620 not taking these things seriously. I have a solution that I think we can bring to bear on
01:32:37.880 this problem immediately, and it won't cost anything with the exception of a few U-Haul
01:32:42.920 trucks. So that's coming up next on the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much to Warren and
01:32:46.660 Chris for sticking around. Guys, I think one of the most silly and cheap aspects of the Canadian
01:32:57.660 psyche is how we nickel and dime how we treat our prime minister. I don't care if you're liberal.
01:33:03.860 I don't care if you're I don't care what political you be NDP. I want you having a 21 gun salute
01:33:08.460 wherever you go. I want the world to know that I respect my prime minister. And yet we saw 24 Sussex
01:33:14.120 fall into disrepair so much that Prime Minister Trudeau never even slept there. He moved into
01:33:19.720 Rideau Cottage across the street, which is a lovely house, but it's in the name. It's a cottage.
01:33:25.360 And he never, never moved back in because we have done nothing on the 24 Sussex file in 10 years.
01:33:32.900 Meanwhile, the RCMP have come out with a report that says it is inadequate from a security
01:33:37.020 perspective. 21st century security for a prime minister is no joke. And I have a solution. Would
01:33:43.620 you like to hear my solution? Yes. All right. So let me ask you both a question. Between the
01:33:50.440 prime minister and the governor general, who presents more of a security challenge for the
01:33:54.340 ERCMP? Prime minister. Prime minister. Okay. So why does the governor general have 70 hectares of
01:34:03.400 property or 32 acres or whatever it is, a gated garden around a massive house that is 102,000
01:34:11.880 square feet. And you'd say, well, that's where the governor general lives. They have to stay there.
01:34:16.320 Well, what would you be surprised if I told you that the governor general had a second residence?
01:34:21.980 I'm not. I've been to it. Yes, you have. Are you saying kick the governor general?
01:34:26.820 No, no, not kick the governor general out. I'd say have the governor general go into
01:34:32.820 her her second residence which according to the rules plays the exact same role and function
01:34:38.900 as rito hall everything that she can do there she can do there in one place
01:34:44.000 they're not harrington you're saying no no not harrington lake la citadel in quebec city
01:34:49.300 oh that's not a bad idea move and this by the way this would be temporary you move you move
01:34:55.680 our guy you move the pm into the place where he could he could welcome the world right i know it's
01:35:00.620 I know it's a fixer-upper, but it plays visually, it plays impressive, right?
01:35:05.140 You move him into Rideau Hall.
01:35:07.140 You've solved your security issues.
01:35:08.720 He can have massive dinners there.
01:35:10.860 He can welcome the entire G7, for the love of God.
01:35:15.160 Move her to Quebec City, where we're already paying for that place.
01:35:18.900 It would symbolically be a really good move because she's a unilingual governor general
01:35:23.580 taking up residence in Quebec City.
01:35:25.340 Maybe she could learn a few words.
01:35:26.660 And this would be a stopgap that would allow us to then figure out what to do with 24 Sussex.
01:35:33.080 Give us the time to do it, and we wouldn't have the embarrassment of a prime minister
01:35:36.400 who looks like he's working in a co-working environment in the office that they've given him at Rideau College.
01:35:45.860 Thoughts, gentlemen?
01:35:47.740 Chris and I are on a panel with a guy who's actually slept in 24 Sussex.
01:35:52.520 Neither of us have, at least I haven't.
01:35:55.740 So that's actually a good idea, especially with the parts of Quebecois about to win government in Quebec.
01:36:01.840 We're going to have to be spending a lot more attention, paying a lot more attention to what's going on in Quebec.
01:36:06.520 So that ain't a bad idea.
01:36:08.320 Yeah. And it doesn't cost anything except the moving for now.
01:36:11.140 And I get it. There are some other costs around the edges that none of us would understand.
01:36:17.280 But we're already paying for la citadelle.
01:36:19.700 It is her second official residence serving the exact same function.
01:36:23.580 give the prime minister that majestic place that looks like a palace and and then and then we can
01:36:30.400 figure out as this as a country how to how to finally get this thing right chris yeah ben i
01:36:37.120 think it sounds like a great idea but you know the thing that pisses me off the most and it has for
01:36:41.160 years and years and i've been fortunate to have been to 24 sussex just fix the damn place you
01:36:46.900 know like this isn't rocket this isn't rocket science it's not we're not talking about renovating
01:36:52.140 you know, a historical place like Center Block or the West or East Block, just like if this country
01:36:57.640 can't find the best contractors we have, maybe pay them more than is necessary. But to just get
01:37:02.700 the work done, you're telling me we can't renovate that place in four to six months,
01:37:07.300 like spend the damn money already, fix it. It's a national historic landmark that we should be
01:37:14.460 ashamed. The history of it is the history of it has all been chronicled. There's nothing
01:37:19.540 intrinsically historical about it, except for what happened there. And it's been completely gutted
01:37:24.500 because of the asbestos, because of the mold, because of the rats. The kitchen was too small.
01:37:30.700 It wasn't right. If you're going to do it, you got to raise it to the ground and build something
01:37:35.740 new in its place. But Warren, let me ask you about it. I mean, you knew how to use politics
01:37:42.620 as a weapon. I think that's a fair way of saying things. What was it about, what is it about the
01:37:48.760 residents that has been a political hot potato that successive prime ministers have not been
01:37:54.120 willing to either take the hit or make it the last the last check that they cut on their way out the
01:38:00.300 door i i just tell you a quick war story to answer your question the reformers landed right in the
01:38:09.440 early 90s and um i was chief of staff at public work so we had responsibility for all the official
01:38:17.580 residences and i don't know if you guys remember a bit ben i'm sure you do like rocks bricks were
01:38:23.660 falling off of center block onto the heads of tourists lined up to get into the building
01:38:29.740 and they had to put hoarding around it and then the bureaucrats came to me and said you know here's
01:38:35.240 what's going to cost to fix it and i was like holy smokes no way and i spoke to the minister and he
01:38:41.760 said you're wrong Kinsella those buildings don't belong to us they belong to the people we're going
01:38:47.920 to spend the money we're going to fix up center block we're going to fix this problem and I thought
01:38:51.900 okay here we go we're going to get it not a peep nobody said a word because everybody agreed with
01:38:57.460 them and agrees with you I think Ben and Chris that it's the people's buildings it doesn't belong
01:39:03.420 to the politicians just fix it up and take care of those properties like you're supposed to and
01:39:08.420 don't be cheap skates because you're you're hurting future generations now if you guys had
01:39:12.640 to say would you build it on a build a new a new residence at 24 sussex proper or uh would you
01:39:19.840 listen to some of these security guys who say uh that it's uh it's it it's too exposed to the river
01:39:26.200 uh and they should build it deeper into the neighborhood known as rock cliff
01:39:29.900 i think yeah but look at the white house white house is right yeah yeah i think it'd be such
01:39:35.360 a shame for for the prime minister's residents not to be at 24 sussex i just think like i agree
01:39:39.900 you know so figure it out you know ben you'd know better than us what the insides were like and and
01:39:45.380 how much and what needs to be changed but you know level it renovate it i don't care 24 sussex is
01:39:50.520 where the prime minister should live and it's a shame that it's been a decade plus since he's
01:39:55.220 called that place home and and you know i think it speaks volumes perhaps to our inability to get
01:40:01.360 anything done in this country that we can't even fix up the prime minister's home.
01:40:04.940 You know, we only have a little bit of time left, but it is my dad's birthday. So I'll share with
01:40:09.240 you one of the jokes that he loved telling that after my dad resigned, a man showed up at the
01:40:15.280 gates of 24 Sussex and knocked and the RCMP came down and said, I want to talk to Prime Minister
01:40:19.740 Mulroney. And he said, Prime Minister Mulroney doesn't live here anymore. And he walked away.
01:40:23.120 And the next day comes back, he says, I've got something I got to talk about with Prime Minister
01:40:26.980 Mulroney. He said, I'm sorry, but Prime Minister Mulroney doesn't live here anymore. He's not
01:40:30.300 prime minister anymore. And then and then the next day, finally, a third time he comes up and
01:40:34.520 repeats himself. And the guard says, what are you not understanding here, man? Brian Mulroney is
01:40:39.640 not the prime minister of Canada anymore. He goes, oh, I know. I just like hearing you say it.
01:40:47.840 That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. But no, he's it. But when when dad was there, I tell you what
01:40:53.320 happened. And I'll tell you a quick a quick story as well. The this is how you got into 24 Sussex
01:40:58.380 in 1984. You would show up and you would show up right in front of the gate and you would flash
01:41:05.440 your lights and a couple of RCMP would get out of a Crown Victoria. And if they liked the look of
01:41:10.740 you, they would open the gate and you would drive up and you would do whatever you had to do. And
01:41:14.420 then you'd drive out the other way. That was security at the time. And then my dad said,
01:41:19.300 you know what? These guys are in those Crown Vicks for eight hours a day. Maybe we'll build
01:41:23.280 some little huts for them where they can stay warm and they can see the cameras. And maybe we'll
01:41:27.860 have a toilet in there for them too, you know? So yeah, cause, cause, cause. And he got raked
01:41:32.720 over the coals for that, like raked over the coals for that. And I think, I don't know, I wonder if
01:41:37.420 that, that alongside, you know, a number of other stories, you know, the plane, I think you'll
01:41:41.900 remember the plane that dad flew in at, at, to go to the environmental summit. And I just wonder
01:41:48.240 whether every prime minister is just a little gun shy about doing that thing. Cause they've,
01:41:51.940 they've heard stories in the past, the images of them feathering their nest or something like that.
01:41:57.440 i don't know it's eight it's the 18 dollar orange juice and i was yeah there you go you're right
01:42:03.600 as anybody you know that's the stuff people remember like you know the statistics somebody
01:42:08.420 once told me is 40 percent of canadians don't know how many million or in billion
01:42:12.360 and i don't know if that's true but it's it's definitely true it's definitely true
01:42:18.100 oh oh i think political graves are dug with with little shovels hey guys thank you so much
01:42:24.840 Have a great weekend, Dr. C. Produk.
01:42:26.680 We'll be right back.
01:42:56.680 Oh, baby, I should bet
01:42:58.500 Sharp it, na-na-na-na-na
01:43:00.680 You know you know that
01:43:02.820 You can't explain it
01:43:04.780 But then you know
01:43:06.420 That's worth the pain of it
01:43:09.660 Oh, oh
01:43:11.580 What is this feeling called love?
01:43:16.060 What is this crazy night?
01:43:18.520 That one girl don't know
01:43:20.220 What is this feeling called love?
01:43:23.520 But he says, what you see now
01:43:27.100 Don't understand no hell
01:43:28.780 Give me love
01:43:30.500 Give me love
01:43:35.260 Give me love