Catholicism： Novus Ordo, Traditionalists, Sedevacantists, & Modernism
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
100.49695
Summary
In this episode, I discuss the differences between the three groups of Catholics: Traditionalists, Novus Ordo Catholics, and Sede Vacantists. I also discuss the role of Popes since the Second Vatican Council, and why they are not really anti-popes.
Transcript
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Hey folks, so this requested video comes from Ian Macdonald.
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He wanted me to talk about the difference between the Traditionalist Catholics, the SSPX,
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the Novus Ordo Catholics, and the Sede Vacantists.
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Now, the simple answer to all of this starts out with Vatican II in 1963.
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Vatican II was a council that met to discuss changes in the Church, to address changing
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And the big changes, at least the big changes that we're concerned about here, largely deal
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One of the most substantial changes was the openness to the vulgar tongues.
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So, where once the Catholic Church was very much focused on Latin, on the history, on
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the very specific and detailed grammar of that language, this new Vatican II, this new liturgy
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If not, well, nowadays all of it, to local tongues, local languages, creating a bit of a Babylonian
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Another major change was the openness to modern styles of music.
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So it wasn't just the Gregorian style, the ancient style of music that had been with the
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Suddenly we could introduce all sorts of new sounds, new instruments, new rhythms.
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We could rewrite the hymns to better fit modern music.
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There was also less of a focus upon the fact that it's the one true Church, that it is the
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And an openness to equality, to universalism, to all these other things.
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And so you wind up with three groups coming out of this.
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There is the Novus Ordo, which is literally the New Order.
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They have gone along with it, completely embraced it, and never questioned it, okay?
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Most people don't read their Bibles, most people don't study their theology, most people
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The traditionalists, and the SSPX is one example, they looked at all of this and said,
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We are, or we might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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And so the traditionalists kept to the old ways.
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They kept to the, who was it, Pope Paul VI, his Mass of 1570, his liturgy.
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They kept to the liturgy that was 500 years old.
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400, if you're really doing the math specifically.
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These are the ones that would argue that this change, that Vatican II represented such a radical
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change in the church, that you couldn't possibly call any of these people Pope anymore.
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No, no, it was, yes, yeah, Pius XII in 1958, that nobody since him could properly be described
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as a Pope, and so the seat has been sitting empty for all this time.
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They're still Catholics, they just don't believe that we've had a real Pope, because no real
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I want to look at these Popes that we've had since, since 1958, since Pius XII.
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Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of the conspiratorial view of history.
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By the time God crapped out the third caveman, a conspiracy was launched against one of them.
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But it's often a very uninformative view of history.
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It's a very black-and-white view of history that fails to acknowledge, fails to have comprehension
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for the subtleties that are going on at the time, for the cultural shifts that are going
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Simply labeling somebody as a villain is often an oversimplification.
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But to simply think in such a black-and-white manner doesn't really get us anywhere.
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It doesn't really explain to us what is happening.
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Because even if you do have somebody that's a complete monster in an office of power, it
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doesn't explain how they got there so easily and why their successors were just as bad.
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I prefer to look at the structuralist view of history, the looking at people as people, people
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who often have the best intentions at heart, even if they go extremely awry.
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So we will start with the Pope who started it all, John XXIII.
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He was the author of the Second Vatican Council and he was passionate about equality.
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And of course, equality, if you've been following my channel for a while, you should be familiar
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with my opinion that equality is an absolute, absolute contradiction of reality.
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As my friend the Becloff likes to say, we're all equal in church because outside of it, we're
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Nobody's the same height, the same intelligence, the same skill set, the same attractiveness.
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And this equality, these human rights, okay, because he was also a passionate supporter
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Now, if you go back to the early days of the American experiment and you want to talk about
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negative liberties, about John Locke, about all of this, this equality before the law.
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Now, this, maybe it's a little bit naive, but it's not the sort of thing I take major issue
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Equality, human rights, they have not meant this for over a century.
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Human rights these days mean right to free healthcare, right to a free education, right
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to workers' compensation, right to insurance covering you even when you didn't pay for it,
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And so when you see the Pope supporting words like this, even if he is coming at them with
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the best of intention, these are very, very slippery words.
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And they have long stopped meaning what all of us seem to think they mean.
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Okay, long ago they stopped meaning any of that, any of what they teach you in school.
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There's the laws and the books, and then there's the policies and procedures that you don't get
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to find out about until you're trapped in the maws of the beast.
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And same thing with all of these rights and freedoms.
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You know, in theory, on paper, they look really good.
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But in practice, freedom of speech means that you have the freedom to shut up.
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So we have John XXIII, also known as the good Pope, passionate about equality and human rights.
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During World War II, he was assigned as nuncio to liberated France.
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And this informed quite a bit of his views on things.
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He was active in helping the Jews fleeing the Holocaust.
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And later on, he would go on to do a generalized confession on behalf of all Catholics,
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Catholics, many times, over the centuries, have done inexcusable things to Jewish people.
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There have been many pogroms, there have even been these enormities which happened during
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crusades, which is the last time you would think an enormity would be happening.
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But it's not as simple as saying that Catholics or Christians or white people or, for that matter,
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Indians and North Africans and you name it, have some sort of psychotic, irrational hatred
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The Jews were very often bad guests of the host civilization.
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They were the first culture to specify usury as a sin.
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And yet, they would frequently, while they wouldn't give usurious loans to one another,
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And while this does not excuse the pogroms, this does not excuse locking Jews in a synagogue
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And while confession, yes, you should confess, you should apologize to your siblings for what
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It doesn't mean they didn't likewise do anything wrong to you that they should likewise apologize
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And if they're not repentant, well, you have to include that in your future relationship
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And there was no similar acknowledgement on the side of organized Judaism to say that,
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yes, Christians have been bad to us, but Christians have been very good to us at other times.
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And Jews have been very bad to Christians at times.
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So right here, we have this one-sided guilt complex coming out of this.
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So following John XXIII, we have Paul VI from 1963 to 1978.
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And in addition to all of that, he made a number of modern reforms to the Church.
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He reduced the regal splendor of the office in a variety of ways.
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And this goes along with Vatican II, which eliminated many of the old styles of dress.
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Some of the more powerful accoutrements that priests or nuns or monks would wear were put
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He began the dialogue with the modern world, as he called it.
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He disbanded the Palatine Guard and the Noble Guard, which, granted, were rather recent inventions
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from the 19th century, keeping only the Swiss Guard as the defender of the papal offices.
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In 1971, he introduced the Papal Office for Economic Development and Catastrophic Assistance.
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There's also some scandals alleging that there were homosexuals being promoted in the Vatican
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Now, despite all of this, he maintained very stringently and very, very much offensively
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to many modern people that the Eucharist was not merely symbolic, despite the language of
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Vatican II, the New Liturgy, avoiding specifying that it's not merely symbolic, that it is the
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He stood up for traditional morality, reaffirmed the discipline of priestly celibacy, maintained
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the Church's opposition towards homosexuality, and he managed to heal the Great Schism with
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the Eastern Orthodox, and also opened up communication with many of the Protestant churches.
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So, once again, I see a lot of good in this guy.
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I see a lot of adherence to the history of Catholicism, to the traditions, to the principles,
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You know, this isn't some sort of radical reformer per se.
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And then, the last pope I want to look at, Pope John Paul I, the 33-day pope, second shortest
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The big thing he did before John Paul II came in was he was the last to use the gestatorial
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That was a, the popes used to visit the public while being carried in a sedan.
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If you think the old monarchies, it was exactly like that.
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It was a royal-appearing sedan, the gestatorial chair.
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And finally, he had a papal inauguration, not a coronation.
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So, when we examine these popes, when we examine these men and what they did in service to
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the church, the common trend isn't necessarily subversion, it's modernism.
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Imagine for a moment the splendor and majesty of a cathedral next to the enormity and ugliness
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The cathedrals that we built back in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, these were amazing
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And if you look at the actual details of a cathedral, this building is built to such amazing specifications.
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And yet a cathedral has no reason to be more than four, five stories high.
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And so you draw up the cathedral in comparison to the office tower.
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To put them onto little spinning treadmills like a hamster.
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Absolutely no respect for the inherent dignity or worth of a human being.
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And yet it speaks so much louder than that enduring beauty of the cathedral.
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Just absolutely consuming us for centuries now.
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And these popes, this is despite what the Sede Vacantists say.
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So the Sede Vacantists would point at these popes and say,
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look at all this modernism they introduced to the church.
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He was the first one to introduce the term social justice into Catholic documents.
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But it's largely a term embraced by Reform Judaism.
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And if you didn't know what social justice was,
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if you weren't so familiar with what we've been dealing with in modern years,
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despite the subversive elements encapsulated in it.
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So we have this modernist beast that's just eating us a lot.
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To the point where even the church is trying to adapt itself to modernism.
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It's trying to rid itself of all of this splendor,